BIRMINGHAM - 5

[HeliCraig]

So, I'll start the new BHX thread. With a question for the mods really? Why do you close the old threads, and what is the threshold?

On another note, CentreCities seems to imply in both this and the CVT threads that it wil be more than Atlantic abandoning BHX. Anyone else heard any more rumours?

[crewmeal]

Paul Kehoe, CEO of Birmingham Airport commented: "This iconic
tower will be furnished with state of the art radar and navigation
equipment and will give the controllers a better view of the airfield,
above buildings that have been developed over the last few years.
It will also allow them to see the end of the extended runway, a
development that will be complete in 2014 and will allow airlines
to fly to more long haul destinations worldwide"
.

I love that bit at the end. He'll be lucky, at this rate we'll be lucky to see a bandarantie or two at the rate the aiport is loosing carriers.

[GayFriendly]

Bless PK and his delusion spin. It's always the same old statements, clinging onto the vain hope that BHX will overnight attract a whole raft of long haul airlines and destinations because of a bit of extra concrete whilst under his nose the reality is that BHX continues to lose pax and routes. I want some of what he is taking please! :O

[crewmeal]

OK not BHX's fault, but looks like the airport has lost Onur Air due to the collaspe of Holidays 4 U. Do they operate on behalf of any other tour operator?

[Centre cities]

I believe at least one of the flights operates for another tour operator and is not affected.

Centre cities

[ATNotts]

Gayfriendly:

All airports, when extending runways suffer from dillusions of grandeur! Think only of EMA, Cardiff - even Manchester with their 2nd runway - they could have operated perfectly well with the volume of traffic they presently have, and the 2nd runway must be 10 years+ old now!

When will we ever read anything remotely positive about BHX in your postings? I think perhaps some of what PK is taking might help you be slightly less negative! :-)

[Guest 112233]

Ein folk, Ein runway, Ein world !

Now I wonder who said that

CAT III

[GayFriendly]

AT, be fair, I think I wrote something mildly positive about the Pier and other upgraded terminal facilities once, mind you I think I then had a rant about it turning into a shopping mall so I guess that balances it out ;)

BHX has got a lot going for it and yes it does have a good range of flights and carriers and the changes to the terminal facilities and infrastructure have greatly improved it IMO from the pax perspective (see, positivity!). I do however get frustrated at the one step forward two steps back situation with route development, both short and long haul. I know this is not the fault of BHX and its management but looking at the direct scheduled timetable now and comparing it to 10 years ago, there is little difference apart from increased frequencies on a number of routes, TK and a few FR routes to East Europe. This does not comapre well with other airports who have, in some cases, greatly expanded their destination offerings.

But, you are right, I should be happy for what we do have at BHX and will leave on a positive note - great news about AF changing to all A318 ops in the autumn and SK (I think?) upgrading their flights to M80's :ok: I will now go lie down in a dark room, all that positivity has quite taken it out of me......

[crewmeal]

GF I'm with you on all this. I remember working at the airport in the 80's and seeing Wardair fill 4 x 747's a week to YYZ. Then came BA to JFK, AA to ORD EK to DXB and PIA to LHE & ISB, plus all the proper European schedules to top destinations. Now what's left? If pax travelled on those routes in the 80's & 90's, why aren't they travelling now? I suspect prices rises, govt taxes on airfares have a lot to do with it.

The along came the locos and with it a complete devaluation in service all round. I'd love to know whats's happened to all those loyal supporters of Business Class. perhaps they've retired or decided on MAN & LHR?

I suppose if there aren't the routes the next best thing are shops that bring in a rental comparasion to the landing fees of a widebody.

[ATNotts]

Crewmeal:

I was thumbing through a copy of Airport Timetables UK for one of the late 80's summers last weekend, and you're right, there were several YYZ services per week, not only by WD, but also Worldways, and Air Canada too at one stage. I remember being told even before then that Canada was a dying market as much of it was visiting friends and relatives over there, and literally they were dying out - that must to some extent be the reason for the collapse in the YYZ market from BHX, and I think it's mirrored at many other airports.

I also noted that there were, in the edition I was looking at, only one KLM and two BA AMS per day, one LH FRA, and generally very few high frequency services to Europe's main hubs.

I think the front end passenger nowadays uses the main alliances and rather than driving to LHR to get to heaven knows where, they use BHX, via FRA, AMS, CDG, BRU, ZRH, CPH, IST, DXB and EWR to get to where they need to. Those passengers haven't stopped doing it, they just do it differently.

As you said, unfortunately the arrival of the LoCo phenomenem has killed off some of the legacy carriers regional operations, and in my opinion is generally bad for the industry (where employees now have to work ever harder, for less) and the passenger that is stung by spurious charges for everything from plastic Bags and trolleys to car parking to pay for the fees that the airlines are no longer prepared to.

[TSR2]

and the passenger that is stung by spurious charges for everything from plastic Bags and trolleys to car parking to pay for the fees that the airlines are no longer prepared to.

Just a re-distribution of costs. The passengers have to pay which-ever way.

[ATNotts]

TSR2

Absolutely right, but a dishonest one from the passenger's point of view, as are the myriad add-ons to basic headline fares that wind up making a LoCo little different in price to a legacy carrier.

[McGoonagall]

I think the front end passenger nowadays uses the main alliances and rather than driving to LHR to get to heaven knows where, they use BHX, via FRA, AMS, CDG, BRU, ZRH, CPH, IST, DXB and EWR to get to where they need to. Those passengers haven't stopped doing it, they just do it differently.

Spot on ATN. Not just the front end either. Living now in Bedfordshire I have a direct train to Gatwick that takes 1hr 20mins after a 10 minute drive. Or a 15 minute drive and then a 40 min journey by rail to BHX. Besides the rail it is almost always quicker to drive the 80 miles to BHX than the 70 miles to LGW. I have found that routing through a European hub is often cheaper than a direct flight from LHR/LGW. Also, I can sit in relative comfort and have a beer at BHX where if I was going from London then one of the lounges is a must for a bit of peace. :ok:

[potash]

Chamber Urges Government To Reduce Air Passenger Taxes - Financial News | Financial News Distribution | Financial News PR | Financial News (http://www.financial-news.co.uk/1681/2011/03/chamber-urges-government-to-reduce-air-passenger-taxes/)


Manston calls for 'congestion charge' at London's busiest airports (http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kentonline/news/2011-1/june/20/manston_airport.aspx)

[OltonPete]

Birmingham Airport increases profits despite fall in revenue - Other UK business news - Business News - Business - Birmingham Post (http://tinyurl.com/3f7un9u)

These look okay but not too difficult to see through these figures. However will PK be able to reduce costs much more without disrupting the business?

I went through BHX this last week and for the middle of summer it was just about the best airport experience I have had for ages for "peak travel".

Outbound, 12 security scanners working and was through at 6am in 5 minutes despite having my bag searched. Got upgraded once again as Long Stay 1 was full, which meant Multi Storey 1 for me although by this time I had paid my £1 to drop the family off closer to the terminal.

Other than the depressing low-roofed departure lounge which had few spare seats we boarded early and orderly at Gate 56 and the pier looked great.

On our return (16.40 Wednesday) we were about the eighth arrival of 15 that hour but all passport gates were working, although we did not use them (I am sure I heard no under 16's to go through but could be wrong). Only two "EU" Border Agency staff working but because the passport gates were working we sailed through. Baggage was about 25-30 minutes - more than acceptable.

The Cork flight landed 10 minutes later and the pax walked through 10 minutes after landing and they had their bags waiting.

Had a quick look at the new Duty Free arrivals and so did a few others but I didn't witness any purchases.

Overall it was a good experience and although with apparent lack of pax the new pier looked good (parked Gate 54) and the terminal had the feel of an "International Airport"

Back to the above article, PK is right about city breaks but poor examples used. Budapest - never had a flight, Biarritz - never performed well and Barcelona finished over a year ago more to do with Baby not been able to fit it into their schedule and is back next summer. City Breaks are going to hit if you don't fly to the likes of Madrid, Berlin, Venice, Rome, Stockholm but I suppose it is the "chicken and egg" syndrome.

Note about long-haul, if that is a good news area then BHX is in trouble. PIA 77W's to 772's, Thomson chop Punta Cana, Mahan Air was going one weekly and more worrying Emirates passenger numbers are heading south or should I actually say heading north (Manchester ;))

Although it appears BHX is not to blame for the downturn and I can only point the finger at the Manchester increases. However we need to get through Ramadan and see the September, October and November figures to get a better idea of how things really are. More and more three-class low density Emirates triples are now been seen but as mentioned above this is usual for Ramadan.

Pete

[ATNotts]

Given the financial results PK is clearly doing what he's paid to do, that is giving the shareholders increased profits, even at a time of difficult trading conditions. Thye'll be more than happy with that, even though most contributors to this forum wouldn't be.

However you can't go on relying upon cost reductions to deliver profit, as Pete has said and at some stage new business is going to have to be forthcoming if he (PK) is to deliver improved figures in the years to come.

Policy does appear to be to work "smart not hard" so I reckon any new business is going to come from airlines that actually want to pay to use the airport, rather than just chasing passenger numbers.

[tom775257]

Does anyone know what is happening to the Ryanair flights to Malta this winter? I heard a rumour from some Air Malta pilots that KM were asked to start operating BHX again due to Ryanair stopping operating MLA from BHX. Any info anyone?? I commute between UK/Malta so very interested. Thanks!!

[OltonPete]

tom775257

The summer Ryanair BHX-MLA schedule was released late and I can only hope the same is going to happen in respect of the winter. The trouble is that airlines, especially Ryanair don't come out and say "we are not operating this route" due to reason "A, B or C", often or not it just disappears quietly.

As it stands the Malta based aircraft has a spare slot on a Wednesday morning exactly at the times the BHX-MLA operated last winter. Also one of the Birmingham based aircraft has a spare slot on a Sunday afternoon at a very similar time to the last winter.

This does give a bit of hope but I believe MLA - EDI and MLA - LBA are both not bookable as well. Maybe FR are negotiating with Malta airport or perhaps they just can't make any money from the routes.

I can't say how long BHX has had a continuous air service to Malta but I would not be surprised if it was 25 years plus. Even in winter the IT airlines used to plough the route if my memory serves me correctly.

Pete

[tom775257]

Thanks alot Pete!

That is very interesting information. I have my fingers crossed, I have a BHX staff carpark pass so it will be very useful if the BHX-MLA flights continue.

It makes sense regarding MLA airport negotiations, I believe that the LTN-MLA route is about to run out of the period with preferential rates from the Maltese government plus KM is suffering near bankrupcy so I expect many talks are underway.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, I have my fingers crossed. All the best, Tom.

[chinapattern]

Have noticed a few of Air Transat's YYZ flights have been A333's rather than the scheduled A332's. Is this just because of aircraft going tech or due to an increase in demand?

[OltonPete]

chinapattern

Per one seat-map website - A332 seating 343 pax & A333 342 pax

Yes an A332 holds more than an A333 - not quite believable.

However the answer is in the seat width - a mere 16.5" on the A332
compared to a whopping 18" on the A333.

3 3 3 narrow seats on the A332 and 2 4 2 on the A333 all assuming
that this information is correct of course.

Also remember Canadian Affair sold it at twice weekly for ages before
realising you really ought to have an airline in place first for both of
your flights and not just the one!!!!

To be fair to them they thought Monarch was going to do the Saturday flight but that never happened and I assume the pax were consolidated on the Tuesday service or re-directed to another airport.

Originally there was going to be a big increase in BHX-YYZ seats but
pretty much like most things at BHX these days it never quite happened.

Pete

[ATNotts]

I'm not normally up to asking things like this, but my daughter has made a booking with Thos Cook to NBE outbound 28.9.11, returning 12.10.11, supposedly on TCX, but the flight timings she has been given don't add up!

BHX-NBE TCX4334 2015/2310 28SEP
NBE-BHX TCX4335 1055/1405 12OCT

Can anyone in the know confirm these flights are operational on those dates,

Thanks

[PhilW1981]

Confused, why don't the flight timings "add up"

[bazzab68]

Those flights are operated by Nouvelair A320 and hence are back to front as its based in NBE and not BHX

Hope that helps.

Barry

[ATNotts]

PhilW1981:

Good question!

Normally BHX/NBE/BHX operated on TCX flight numbers would either be out and back - so DEP BHX 2015, turnaround and directly back, arriving around 0330; or possibly out in the morning on a "W" pattern (routing back to another UK airport, eg. Norwich) then arriving back into BHX late evening.

The timings and flight numbers offered up by Thos. Cook (the holiday company) seam very odd when put against such a scenario. It is possible that the return NBE/BHX arriving 14:05 may have originated in another UK airport, but then there is a slot available between say 1505 and 1915 for it to do something else, time possible for a REU, or possibly one of the Balearics, but the turn around there looks a wee bit short.

Thanks bazzab68 for your answer, I thought that at least the return might be on Nouvelair. I suppose it could be an extra for the kids half terms which must start around about then.

An extra at BHX?? What is the world coming to???

[nigel osborne]

Re Canada.

Sadly looks like Canadian affair have dropped the idea of a second flt next year and its down as a single A330 again !:ugh:

More bad news, Im told Olympic Holidays have been very happy with Sky Wings out of BHX ,and have already signed a contact with them for next year. noooooooo!:{

Nigel

[OltonPete]

ATNotts

I have sent you a PM.

However I think the simple answer is that both Thomson and Thomas Cook
change the times of a lot of their flights between September and October, as
several routes end early and some evening/night flights get moved to day.

I am fairly certain both legs will be be on Thomas Cook aircraft as the Wednesday Izmir and two Ibiza's have finished by 12 October leaving only four flights for three aircraft. The evening flight on the 28th has been moved to the morning slot which was occupied by the Ibiza service.

That is my theory, certainly for the inbound and I could be wrong but it appears that the Nouvelair starts tomorrow but only operates for three weeks before changing to a based Thomas Cook.

NBE started as 3 x TOM and 2 x TCX but ended up as 1 x TOM and 1 X TCX but at least good to see a bit of a recovery in the market.

Pete

[ATNotts]

Nigel,

That being the case remind me to book my Greek holiday through a "proper" tour operator and "proper" airline!

[chinapattern]

Sadly looks like Canadian affair have dropped the idea of a second flt next year and its down as a single A330 again !:ugh:


I suppose we should just be grateful that they're coming back.

[jpthomas72]

Somebody at DUS checked BE's plans, hope it's true as it would be very good news: 2 of 4 to BHX to be E175 from 28Oct, rest still Q400. Can somebody here confirm this and also tell me which departures will be the E175, so I can avoid the Q400 :}. Welcome back in the jet-ago, FlyBE :O.

See here:


FlyBE ersetzt Dash8 durch E175 auf MAN-HAJ, an 7 4SEP-2OCT, dann auf allen Rotationen ab 28OCT.
(...)
Nach Düsseldorf gibt's etwas mehr: MAN vollständig auf ERJ-175, BHX zunächst 2 von 4 tgl. Flügen auf ERJ-175, zum Ende des WFP auf 3 von 4 tgl. Rotationen. SOU bleibt bei Turboprops. Aktuelle Routennews - airliners.de - Forum (http://forum.airliners.de/index.php?s=&showtopic=42128&view=findpost&p=590033)

[jpthomas72]

OK, a popular online travel agency (ehmm, no ad here) lists E75 for BHX-DUS 13:25 (BE7045) and 17:40 departures (BE7047). On Friday also the 6:50, BE7041. Saturdays this one is at 8:45 and still a Q400. I've checked early Nov. The 10:00 from DUS-BHX on a Monday also still a Q400, as is the Monday 7:00 from DUS (BE7040). Hm, a little confusing then.

[OltonPete]

jpthomas72

Some Global Distribution Systems now showing three out the four flights are 175's from the winter schedule. Departures from BHX 06.50, 13.20 & 17.40.

The DUS night-stop remains a Q400.

This is Monday - Friday and Sunday evening 17.40 also is a 175.

This has been the plan for weeks and now appearing in GDS.

Air Nostrum

Rumour has it they had double daily slots requested for BHX but no more and of course they had gone for twice weekly Glasgow and daily Manchester in competition with easyjet and ryanair rather than having BHX business, leisure and connecting traffic to themselves.

Perhaps still hope for summer 2012 but just shows how low BHX is a priority for some airlines.

Double daily certainly sounded ambitious but often that is what is required to feed hub flights. Another forum has the Manchester timings ideal for South American connections in both directions and at daily I suppose it will attract some business pax with leisure left for EZY & FR.

Pete

[delta154]

Im sure we will eventually see a similar timed IB flight at BHX.

It will be used to feed the new IAG group flights at MAD, something BHX cant currently do to LHR due to the short distance and train network.

As seen as MAN only went on sale yesterday, still could be time for a winter 11 launch, but, would be very surprised if a BHX-MAD route wasnt up and running by the end of 2012, and if not, would really beg the question of what the routes team at BHX is doing.

[Centre cities]

To the untrained eye (me) I have been asking that question for the last 2 years. The last major announcement was 2 and a half years ago (Turkish)

I though that they didnt have one any more, perhaps someone would like to correct me.

Does anyone know where you apply for the job as the KPI for the role seem to be fine.

Centre cities

[chinapattern]

I can't remember if US Airways was announced after TK, either way it doesn't really matter as they're no longer around. We did have the announcement of Spanair to Madrid and Barcelona - then a few weeks later it was all cancelled. We also had the whole Armavia fiasco which resulted in one PR flight and nothing else.

[grundyhead]

Don't forget "Hellenic Imperial"....

[getonittt]

And don't forget Iceland Express....

I think BHX should follow the way manchester handled RYR by falling out with them then having them back with RYR annoucing a daily Madrid , something that BHX would be crying out for (among other things)
IBE/ANS would not serve BHX as it's a oneworld member , so if you are from the midlands you MUST use manchester or heathrow :*

[chinapattern]

If it's true that Iberia/Nostrum had requested slots at BHX and taking in to account Spanair's plan to launch flights last year then you would think there is sufficient demand to fill anything from a CRJ to an A320 to Madrid. How long did Iberia operate flights to BHX before? Why did they pull out? MAD represents the last major European hub missing from BHX's network and for me it's the one route they really should be trying to get. Stockholm should be next on the radar and it really would be nice to see the likes of Prague, Barcelona, Rome and Lisbon served by airlines other than bmibaby but I guess beggers shouldn't be choosers. Helsinki, Warsaw, Kiev and Tel Aviv are other routes I'd like to think could come online. In terms of long haul, Doha must surely be a main contender but a service to Delhi/Mumbai would be a more logical choice, especially when AI get their 787's which would be a perfect fit for BHX. Aside from perhaps JFK or Chicago, I really don't see much scope for any more USA routes. Perhaps Air Canada could make a twice weekly Toronto work, again when the 787's arrive. Either way, it's purely speculation and wishful thinking as it always is with BHX. We'll probaby end up yet another random airline like announcing flights and cancelling a week before they're due to start.

[delta154]

If it's true that Iberia/Nostrum had requested slots at BHX and taking in to account Spanair's plan to launch flights last year then you would think there is sufficient demand to fill anything from a CRJ to an A320 to Madrid


Not really, since Spanairs plans were cancelled due to dire lead in bookings.
I have no doubt we will eventually see a BHX-MAD, but, more than likely on a CRJ200 or -900.

Doha must surely be a main contender

Since QR's press release for the MAN 2nd daily stated that it would be used to carry Midlands pax, it seems they have no intention of starting BHX for a while yet


Helsinki, Warsaw, Kiev and Tel Aviv are other routes I'd like to think could come online


Id think that until hub carriers to the likes of MAD and LIS, those are very far fetched ideas.

[getonittt]

As i have said before on here, we are just an alliance spoke (star alliance & skyteam) we are not going have anymore point to point routes to major european cities other than the ones we already have for a long time , if ever , by the legacy carriers. Hurts me to say , but i've got used to that fact for many years now. The loco's simply do not have the freqency to make the routes viable i.e at least double daily.
DELTA154. Yes you are right to say the spanair routes were pulled because of dire bookings, but do you remember the times they proposed? 1 flight did not get into BCN until 02.00AM :ugh:

[INKJET]

Whilst the likes of bmibaby & Ryanair don't do double daily they do provide access to some on the wish list, but many require an overnight stop or two in some cases, which means a trip down to LHR will be quicker

[OltonPete]

Yes up at 938739

Rolling year down 0.2% 8649992

ATM's 8096 -2.7%

On the route debate, I think a third EK or QR in 2012 was nailed on until
the Manchester expansion happened although Dubai was up 4% in July
at 46390. So maybe things are not quite so bad as I first thought.

Qatar - I think forget it in the short-term.

I think some of the city routes mentioned are fine by loco although in an
ideal world it would be nice to see full-service airlines or flybe double daily
but it looks like things are going to carry on moving slowly.

India is the obvious source for long-haul but reading some of the politics that goes on it is nothing short of breath-taking.

Pete

[OltonPete]

Monthly figures Source: CAA

Average pax and load factor: My record, libhomeradar & BHX Blog

Some very impressive load factors and although it is easy to dismiss this as "so they should be" some of the business routes are part of the increases.

Yes there are a couple of worries such as Newark but fares are sky high in July usually and Islamabad is normally higher but the 772 has replaced the 77W compared to last year.

Milan seats have been sold to travel agents I believe on certain days and hence the large increase. Munich with its extra capacity is very good and this is based on 86 seats for the CRJ9 and 116 seats for the 195 and this is max capacity. Frankfurt load factor in reality was higher as I have based it on 168 seats for the A320 but I believe the middle seat is not sold in business.

Paris was down but only by a small amount despite the massive reduction in capacity.

Six ryanair routes 95% plus with the highest 97%.

I have left in a couple on non-scheduled Thomson long-haul figures.

DUBLIN 48,215/137 pax/75%
DUBAI 46,390/374 pax/86%
AMSTERDAM 43,202/104 pax/78%
PALMA DE MALLORCA 22943/169 pax/93%
MALAGA 32862/163 pax/87%
DALAMAN 6202/182 pax/85%
ALICANTE 25763/159 pax/86%
PARIS (CHARLES DE GAULLE) 27,966/88 pax/82%
FRANKFURT MAIN 27,948/94 pax/60%*
FARO 21137/168 pax/87%
IBIZA 10901/173 pax/85%
TENERIFE (SURREINA SOFIA) 15441/174 pax/85%
LARNACA 5898/200/95%
MUNICH 14,963/91 pax/84%
DUSSELDORF 14,755/52 pax/60%
ARRECIFE 9139/176 pax/87%
ZURICH 14,349/77 pax/77%
MAHON 6867/191 pax/89%
PAPHOS 3018/178 pax/83%
BODRUM (MILAS) 3131/174 pax/81%
MURCIA SAN JAVIER 10,353/148 pax/88%
FUERTEVENTURA 6264/176 pax/86%
LAS PALMAS 6262/174 pax/86%
REUS 4163/149 pax/79%
ISLAMABAD 8,922/249 pax/75%
NEW YORK (NEWARK) 8,851/142 pax/82%
BRUSSELS 8,592/48 pax/60%
HANOVER 5716/55 pax/70%
CORK 7,259/59 pax/81%
NICE 6,859/111 pax/74%
GERONA 4575/176 pax/93%
MILAN (MALPENSA) 5,652/91 pax/77%
ISTANBUL 5,552/121 pax/76%
ASHKHABAD 5,479/152 pax/81%
COPENHAGEN 5,126/83 pax/79%
BRATISLAVA 4,664/179 pax/95%
BYDGOSZCZ 4,647 /19 pax/95%
MONTPELLIER 4,645/129 pax/68%
MALTA 2950/164 pax/87%
IRELAND WEST AIRPORT KNOCK 4,257/112 pax/75%
STUTTGART 3,376/41 pax/53%
SHANNON 3,368/54 pax/74%
RZESZOW 3,289/183 pax/97%
GDANSK 3,258/181 pax/96%
KATOWICE 3,239/180 pax/95%
HAMBURG 3,179/51 pax/66%
KAUNAS 3,163/176 pax/93%
ALMERIA 3,051/191/89%
LYON 2,975/32 pax/65%
TRIESTE (RONCHI DEI LEGIONARI) 2,876/160 pax/85%
DUBROVNIK 990/99 pax/84%
TORONTO 2,664/333 pax/97%
MONTEGO BAY 2,483 -1.5 /276 pax/97%
NAPLES 2,255 -28.7
SANFORD 2,229 -0.4/278/98%
CANCUN 2,158 +8.3/269/95%
BERGERAC 1,966/52 pax/66%
BORDEAUX 1,553/49 pax/62%
BREST 1,460/61 pax/78%
WATERFORD 1,361/38 pax/79%
TOULOUSE (BLAGNAC) 1,277/49 pax/63%
AVIGNON 785/49 pax/63%
GOTEBORG 312/22 pax/53%

Pete

[getonittt]

On the route debate, I think a third EK or QR in 2012 was nailed on until
the Manchester expansion

Maybe not a third EK , but the EK39/40 being upgraded to A380 , this will still happen as and when more dumbo's enter service.

On a possitive note it's nice to see that the work on Eurojets hangar has started :ok:

[OltonPete]

Ryanair are to operate Malta from BHX this winter.

Days and times: -

Thursday dep BHX 13.20 arrive back BHX 20.30

Sunday dep BHX 16.15 arrive back 23.25

Neither flights fit the three based schedule although Sunday would only
require LDY to arrive 5 minutes earlier for a 25 min turnaround.

Thursday is a bit more difficult but one option is Dublin evening going later as a BHX based aircraft or changing to Dublin based. Otherwise there would need to be wholesale re-timings required on the other flights.

I make that 61 flights a week compared to 60 last year in November or 62 in December 2010 when Malta started.

So not bad I suppose.



Pete

[Monty Gordo]

Travelled back FAO - BKX on August 18 with RYR and the plane appeared to be fully booked, at least it felt like it! Yet rows 3 and 4 were still not available to passengers.

What is the reasoning for this? Is it something to do with weight distribution? Can someone explain?

[HeliCraig]

Long and short of it is that it is indeed to do with weight & balance. By leaving rows 3 & 4 empty it allows Ryanair to use a simplified loading sheet.

[Monty Gordo]

Thanks Helicraig for the explanation.

Therefore, does that mean that RYR's flights do not have every seat filled?

[ericlday]

BKX is Brookings, South Dakota. Not sure but don't think its one of Ryanairs destinations !!!!!

[FR-]

Rule 1 (Mandatory)
Passenger load of 177 or less = Block off row 3 and 4.

Rule 2 (Applicable only for aircraft balance purposes, when advised by
Captain or dispatcher)
With 129 or fewer passengers carried, front seat rows 3 through 8 and
aft 4 seat rows must be blocked off by lowering the tray tables. The tray
tables must be re-stowed before take off.

[TartinTon]

"BKX is Brookings, South Dakota. Not sure but don't think its one of Ryanairs destinations !!!!!"

I think that's DUB (West)

[Monty Gordo]

FR-

Excellent explanation, thanks a lot.

[FQTLSteve]

I noted the comments regarding slot requests by Iberia/Air Nostrum. It has been confirmed that they will start daily MAD-MAN service 31 October and twice weekly from Glasgow. Just don't undertsand what has happened to all the exBA pax....daily to MAD, BCN and FCO? Very depressing for BHX.

On a slightly more positive note flew LX BHX-ZRH-HAJ 13 Sep, Early morning flight from BHX to ZRH was full, got upgraded into business (M&M FTL status) as was return evening service on 16 Sep.

[OltonPete]

As reported on the Monarch thread possible new Avro/Monarch routes.

Chania is bookable on a Tuesday with the Mahon moving to Wednesday.

Monarch are also being used by Thomson on the Wednesday ZB FUE so
a big loss there but the TOM aircraft does a second Rhodes I think.

However Marrakech has disappeared from the booking engine on a Thursday and another Ibiza popped up for Thomson. I suppose RAK was a surprise considering what has happened.

Pete

[FR-]

Whats going on in BHX today? Getting mixed messages on facebook.

'All flights suspended from bhx airport cause of a security breach, gonna be a long day!!'

'Security alert at BHX really messed up my day now!!'

fr-

[OltonPete]

FR-

Not sure, very few delays this afternoon.

Monarch Tenerife is delayed outbound, same aircraft that diverted
to Gatwick in the earlier hours of Friday morning on BHX-ZTE but
whether that has anything to do with today's problems, I don't know.

There are shorts delays on EI Shannon and LH Munich but little else.

Pete

[jabird]

Helsinki, Warsaw, Kiev and Tel Aviv are other routes I'd like to think could come online

To be honest, I remember JF announcing the big Q400 order, and then adding in the E195s, and each time I remember thinking 'small, low cost aircraft -they must be able to open up loads of thin routes which other airlines wouldn't touch.'

What have we got?

Surely, on paper at least, ATH, TRN, BSL, ARN, OSL, HEL, WAW, MAD, BER must all look like good candidates for a daily rotation using the E195?

So are BE just being too conservative, or are mgmt happy to let these all leak to MAN & LHR, safe in the 'knowledge' that the big fancy new runway extension is going to bring in so many more users to BHX?

[OltonPete]

All now bookable on one site for 2012 with Monarch flight numbers.

PVK & EFL are on a Sunday requiring a 5th aircraft or a reduction in
the ZB schedules on that day.

I realise it is early days and things change but a hopeful sign.

jabird

Most of the destinations listed are proven markets in terms of pax but
unfortunately have not worked out yield wise. I suppose flybe would have
looked at who last operated these routes such as ARN, OSL, HEL, TXL (Duo) and it would not fill me with confidence. Although that was a long time ago and things have changed.

However baby managed volumes on MAD, Norwegian on Warsaw and Ryanair on NYO (for a while) so I am sure some will reappear in time.

You would think some of the routes would be ideal for the 175 (assuming
they turn up) but you do get the impression flybe are looking elsewhere at the moment.

Pete

[jabird]

Pete,

Obviously it is all about yields, not loads, but when you only have half as many seats to fill, it is easier to target the passengers who are likely to bring good yields. Also, I don't think NYO or VST are the same thing as ARN, they are two of the most distant Ryanairports in the game!

[jabird]

Should also add that Sterling did EMA - CPH, OSL & ARN back around 2008 iirc. I did a CPH-EMA sector, I think around 2/3rd full, and I paid about £50 a couple of weeks before travel. No idea how corresponding frequencies / loads / yields would have been on OSL & ARN, but I would expect stronger demand at BHX, and an E175 would be easier to reach B.E.P. than a 735, or one of Norwegian's 738s.

I wonder if the new BER will create an opportunity for the right carrier to (re) launch a BHX service - think that needs its own thread.

[HeliCraig]

So it seems that rather than concentrating on improving the offerings at BHX, PK has gone into "protectionist" mode and has started having a bash at CVT.

Brilliant, constructive use of your time PK.

Birmingham Airport chief warns of Coventry rival's impact - Other UK business news - Business News - Business - Birmingham Post (http://www.birminghampost.net/birmingham-business/birmingham-business-news/other-uk-business/2011/08/25/birmingham-airport-chief-warns-of-coventry-rival-s-impact-65233-29303852/)

I'm pretty sure it's not to do with destroying the market really, just that he doesn't want it highlighted that Sir Peter Rigby may have gone out and got (or is in the process of going out and getting) airlines and routes for his airport. Something PK and his rebranding team haven't managed. Although the new sign is quite nice. :D:D

[kasuga]

On wed , a "well heeled" oriental gentleman was being given a tour of the new pier by the airport heirachy, ...any ideas ???

[rn750]

It doesn't make much sense to have 2 airports so close together trying to do the same thing. The midlands can only just support 1 airport let alone 2.

Adie

[FR-]

Yes i agree, close BHX and moving up to EMA :E

[Facelookbovvered]

FR I'll second that!

[potash]

Gentlemen we don't call EMA the cattle pens for nothing dreadful place if its raining and not much better when the suns out.

[INKJET]

It rained today, but for the first time in Months!! anyway the arrival's cattle pens at BHX are bigger than EMA!!

[ATNotts]

Helicraig:

I don't believe you understand what Kehoe's job is, and what he was trying to get across, although I think he is rather over-egging the pudding if he actually said what the Birmingham Post says he did!

PK's job is to make profits for the shareholders, something which, despite these recessionary times, he has succeeded in doing last year. He said that by diluting short haul business between CVT and BHX, profits will be hit, and that this could effect development of long haul services.

However, I think what he is quoted as saying is nonsense on two grounds. First, CVT will never entice the major European carriers to Baginton and it's their business that makes the profits, rather than the likes of Ryanair who really want to pay nothing to BHX to use the facilities, hence the various other rip-off charges that PAX have to pay. Second, an extra 400m will not guarantee a singe extra longhaul service. That requires a sound business case being put to Asian carriers, and some work by the marketing department!!

[The late XV105]

Thanks for the stats, OltonPete.

Rather worryingly, my extremely convenient regular direct flight to GOT with City Airline is at the bottom of the list with a load factor of only 53%. Originally conceived to suit the Ford MoCo empire, hiving off Jaguar, Landrover, and Volvo has already seen the flights drop from twice a day to once a day and a lot of the other regular pax are no longer seen. I wonder how long it will keep going at all.

I'm also a regular traveller through DXB but from simply looking around the cabin even without the stats I don't see that one in any danger!

XV

[GayFriendly]

PK's job is to make profits for the shareholders, something which, despite these recessionary times, he has succeeded in doing last year


Agreed thats what he is employed to do but its such a shame he seems to have decided to achieve that goal by focusing on developing the range of shops at the expense of developing the ailing route network. His comments about CVT are simply a running scared knee jerk reaction. If BHX had paid more attention to keeping its once strong European network of flights intact (instead of focusing on long haul pipe dreams that are unlikely to happen) then it would be unlikely that there would even be a rumour of short haul flights from CVT.

On a more positive note, I see that Monarch are now showing scheduled flights to Heraklion and Zante from BHX next summer, this is in addition to PVK and CHQ, although I am unsure as to whether these are pure charter as they are not yet listed on the Monarch scheduled website.

[sam1993]

On a more positive note, I see that Monarch are now showing scheduled flights to Heraklion and Zante from BHX next summer

From what I can see these are still charter flights using MON flight numbers next summer. It has been possible to book them on the Monarch website for this summer as well. :ok:

[nigel osborne]

Do BHX still have a marketing department anymore.. ?? no new major routes for over 18 months ? :sad: What on earth they find to do.:confused:

There is only so many times you can call Qatar or Easy Jet on the phone for them to say no..Perhaps Mr K could job share to save money in the marketing office.

Think there is a lot of truth in the media spinning bad mostly false stories on BHX, but wish BHX would fight their corner more with the press.

Nigel

[pwalhx]

How many airlines (of the type all you in Birmingham crave) do you think are considering starting new routes in the current economic situation. They have a hard job on their hands I am sure.

[GayFriendly]

I for one don't crave new airlines at BHX (although yes of course it would be nice to see more scheduled carriers) what concerns me more is the ones we have don't seem to be able to (or want to?) expand their operations there - FR & WW have a much reduced operation compared to 2008 and can't seem to get above the 4 based units. MON to be fair have bucked the trend and could introduce more sunshine scheduled routes but what of BE - the 175 would seem perfect for BHX city routes but not even a sniff of anything new. If based carriers can't expand what hope of new ones? As I have said before the runway extension will not attract a sudden rush of long haul flights, like PK and his team seem to believe leaving BHX as a spoke in the Star Alliance and Sky Team worlds with a few Euro sunshine and niche long haul routes thrown in for good measure

Just for interest, GLA has in the last few weeks announced new routes to MAD, FCO, SVG and NQY, as well as increased VS capacity to MCO next summer, this from an airport that has been haemorraging passengers at at even worse rate than BHX. Are there any new routes to be announced from BHX? Thought not......

[rodchester]

Don't mean to be negative but I find it a bit strange how Air transat can only operate 1 flight a week to toronto next summer from bhx when glasgow and Man offer 5 to 6 flights aweek. Something was mention in a recent post that canada was a market in decline, well that does not seem to be the case at Glas or Man. Also loads factors published on this site show BHX-toronto over 90% for most of the summer. I think Bhx can do better than one flight a week!! In previous years it has always being two flights a week at the very least. I dont know what the problem is since Im not a avigation expert, but one thing is for sure, the bhx - toronto service is not being adequatly covered by Air transat at present. Maybe BHX is a low priority for them or there are other issues with this service. What ever the problem is, this route could be better served.

[crewmeal]

On the subject of YYZ flights, I too can't understand why BHX hasn't got more flights. There passengers are certainly there, especially with the Indian community. They are crying out for these flights. I can't help harping back to Wardair days in the 80's when they used to fill a B747 four times a week to YYZ.

On a different note it's sad to think that the only real increase in traffic at BHX are the Medivac flights that come from Afghanistan. With the end of summer only 2 months away, whats in store for BHX this winter?

[OltonPete]

crewmeal

Unless there are any major surprises between now and November, winter will be similar to last year. Air Malta & Cyprus Airways have gone as has flybe Frankfurt and I assume Mahan Air.

On the plus side the Air France A318's will add capacity and Lufthansa Munich should be up as it appears two of the three flights will be by 116 seat 195's.

SAS add a Saturday CR9 to Copenhagen and of course the BMI A320 covers the loss of seats on Frankfurt.

Ryanair are operating the same number of flights as are baby. Monarch are operating less unfortunately due to Ryanair arriving on FUE and increasing ACE. Although the reduction in Larnaca and Tenerife is a surprise especially the former considering the CY withdrawal.

I think there are two or three net increases in Aer Lingus flights per week, Saturday Cork, Saturday Shannon and possibly Sunday Dublin (not sure about that one).

PIA could be down as the 77W operated last winter and I am not sure about this one. CO, LX, SN, KL, TK, CF, AF (LYS), BE all look similar.

iT Charter wise, a bit of shuffling here due Egypt cancellations and I would say it is down slightly.

pwalhx

Air Nostrum Madrid for a start.Proven market for passengers just needs the right airline and right aircraft to give it a chance. I believe the Baby 733 service was not profitable despite the 80% load factors and it is very noticeable that out of the "fab four" routes they dropped a few years back, only Madrid has not been re-instated.

It is not always a case of attracting new airlines but perhaps persuading the ones they have to expand although with baby that it is more difficult due to what is going on but LH to the new Berlin springs to mind for June 2012, SAS Stockholm (although they might be happy to feed via CPH as LH might with Berlin via FRA).

flybe with their Nordic connections now would be another candidate eventually for Helsinki with a Finnair code-share (an obvious one) to feed the long-haul HEL hub and Arlanda perhaps although it seems the Nordic arm with be using Bromma.

These are not routes which will spring up overnight but certainly plenty for the future.

On the bright side for next summer Monarch Preveza, Chania and Kefalonia are all bookable as IT flights with no schedule flight reductions as yet to accommodate them and this should mean at least five aircraft on a Sunday.

I am still hoping that Monarch have more to come for BHX in 2012.

Pete

[crewmeal]

This must be a first for the airport. The marketing team if that's what they're called these days should be congratulated on their wonderful achievement.

Birmingham Airport welcomes Cornish Pasty Co : Birmingham Airport News Stories (http://www.uk-airport-news.info/birmingham-airport-news-310811.html)

[Doors to Automatic]

If PK wishes to be a smart cookie he should ramp up charges for Ryanair, get rid of them and then declare the airport a Ryanair-free zone forever.

This would provide a far more stable arena for other carriers to provide long-term and sustainable services.

And why on earth isn't there a massive Cadbury's gift shop in departures? That is surely the very first outlet anyone with an ounce of common sense would consider for Birmingham Airport !!!

[compton3bravo]

Good idea but the company is now owned by Americans so they are probably being a bit KRAFTY!

[Ian Brooks]

Oh dear I think you better put your coat on

Ian B

[GayFriendly]

If PK wishes to be a smart cookie he should ramp up charges for Ryanair, get rid of them and then declare the airport a Ryanair-free zone forever


This has possibly already happened which could go some of the way to explain the total stagnation of the FR base at BHX: other airports must give them a far longer reduced fee period or charge nothing at all to make some of the marginal routes that FR do from other airports viable, i'm thinking for example of the almost wholly leisure and/or VFR routes like LBA-RIX, EMA-SVQ and so on. Either that or folk using BHX have no further desire than to either chase the summer sun or collect air miles with the Star Alliance.

As for becoming an FR free zone, despite the fact that IMO FR have done virtually nothing for the route map from BHX, despite their stagnation, they would leave a big hole with no one to fill it, which is a pretty dire position for BHX to be in

More positively, there is a rumour that Mahan will restart in Sept, twice weekly to/from Tehran, although I have a horrible feeling this rumour has more than a sniff of eau d'Armavia about it - lets hope its good news

[ATNotts]

GayFriendly

With regard to any special deals that FR did with BHX, I seem to recall they chucked the proverbial teddy out of their corporate cot many years when BHX withdrew a deal they had at the time, and they ran a very limited network with included Gerona and Reus.

They then, of their own volition returned to BHX, without a special deal. I doubt they got many favours financially from BHX when they returned a few years ago, and if that is the case, then that may go some way to explain their expansion at rather more generous (desperate?) airports. I don't know but it wouldn't surprise me if they returned to MAN more through commercial necessity than because of a spectacular deal from MAG.

I guess we'll never know.

[Ian Brooks]

No deal done at Manchester, they came back on worse terms than when they
ran off crying last time I am told

Ian B

[Doors to Automatic]

Good to see - airports must be courageous and stand up to them.

Either a route is viable or it isnt. There is no magic and markets cannot be 'rustled up' from nowhere.

If I was an airport MD I would much rather do a fair deal with someone like BE and work with them to build a sustainable network where everyone benefits rather than be held to ransom by Ryanair and have a network of non-routes with other carriers scared away.

[rpmac]

Edinburgh seems to manage quite well with BE and FR, both are growing in fact, whilst other carriers are not scared away so why not other airports, especially with a catchment area the size of Birmingham. EasyJet, Norwegian, Germanwings etc are all present at Edinburgh, so too LH & BA.

[ATNotts]

rpmac:

Edinburgh is one of the worlds great tourist destinations, even more so since it became a "real" capital city, so there's inbound tourism aplenty.

Same (sadly) can't be said for Birmingham or Manchester.

[GayFriendly]

I have just read that China Eastern have launched a weekly HAM-PVG A330 service as an extension to their daily FRA service. Is this not the sort of thing that BHX should be going for rather than spending millions on a runway extension? OK so its still a one stop service (against the trip down the M40 for the non stop BA or VS from LHR) but that is surely a more viable way for BHX to get a flight to China than a non stop big bird going three quarters empty? Then again if MAN can't attract CX back as a one stop via ZRH as rumoured on the MAN thread then perhaps China Eastern and such like will forever remain a dream at BHX

As for the FR debate, there is now a did they/didn't they do a deal on the MAN thread. If there was no deal done to get FR to set up at BHX then it would seem there are few profitable European routes (apart from those served already) as FR have settled in the main now on sun destinations. You can't blame them for trying, it was an audacious start, scheduled flights to Sicily, Corsica as well as cities like PSA, NYO, PIS, BLQ, TRF and OPO - if FR can't get routes like these to work then I doubt anyone can. Why these sort of routes don't work from BHX and do from others, well that is another very big question......

And finally - BHX has Stratford and Warwick on its doorstep so its not entirely devoid of inbound tourism potential however I would bet my bottom dollar that the majority of inbound tourists visiting these attractions who did fly to the UK came in via LON or perhaps MAN.....BHX has never as far as i'm aware made anything of the amrketing potential of Shakespeare, no surprise really they seem more interested in Cornish pasty heritage right now

[crewmeal]

Gay Friendly - brilliant post, you've hit the nail on the head, well done.

[Centre cities]

Warwick and Stratford are big tourist destinations but you only have to take a look at the coach parks to realise that they are in the main day trip destinations from London bases and that tourists do not use them as the base for thier UK trips, therefore the passengers arrive at London.

Inbound tourist wise I dont think that MAN doeas any better apart from the short hops for the footie teams.


Centre cities

[Ian Brooks]

Manchester gets alot of inbound tourism and i`m sure I read that it is now only behind London and Edinburgh for actual numbers inbound through airport as a lot of of long haul pax especially from Asia are coming to Northwest England
I must try and find where I read this and link it

Ian B

[Centre cities]

With the passengers numbers at MAN there would be something serioulsy wrong if it was not third. London and Scotland are obvious, it all depends how far behind MAN is and how far in front it is of the of the next area otherwise being third means nothing.

It still does not mean that there is a large percentage of pax via MAN inbound as tourists.

Centre cities

[merchant sailors]

Mancheter has one of the globes largest brands not only bringing tourists to the city for games, but most importantly keeping the city on the global stage in terms of consumer awareness.

Consumers in growing world markets don't think about Birmingham as a place they want to visit. They hardly understand that Villa, West Brom etc are near to this city.

They all know of Man Utd, starting to know about Man City and ironically also all know of Liverpool.

Airlines like Air Asia X are all about serving rapidly growing disposable incomes in Malaysia where these consumers want to shop in Europe. Especially in places their friends have heard of. This is a reason why markets in South East Asia have huge potential for inbound tourism.

[Facelookbovvered]

I don't think you can blame BHX football clubs or lack of for the number of inbound tourists, Stratford is a day trip from London and people will not fly to BHX just for a couple of days in Shakespeare county, nice as it is.

BHX seems to be doing just fine on the financial front, Ryanair clearly have been more successful at EMA

It will be interesting to see what leakage BHX loose to EMA with the new EMA-FRA service, whilst its only on an ERJ it used to be very popular when last operated some years back

[ATNotts]

Regarding the effect of the new EMA-FRA service on LH from BHX, living where I do, I will exchange the drive to BHX for the EMA cattle shed terminal, and poor car parking facilities for trips to Nürnberg, if the connections are usable from EMA.

Looking at the EMA-FRA-EMA schedule, the outbound connections look usable, but returning, the last weekday inbound will mean a very early departure from NUE, so it may well be that it won't work for me, and therefore because of the nature of the FRA hub, it may make it less attractive than it could have been to many would be refugees from BHX.

It is also interesting to see that so far there doesn't seem to be a code share on LH, but perhaps that will be set up in the next few days. Current connections from EMA are showing via BRU.

[OltonPete]

Facelookbovvered

There has to be some loss and probably more than likely at the business end but at least with flybe gone from BHX-FRA, LH have the route to themselves.

The only strange point is that LH stated that the days of the 50 seater were over and Eurowings and Cityline are in the process and getting rid of their
CRJ's. I trust they meant for point to point traffic and not feeding a hub. Although that is even changing in the US to some degree.

I am more interested to know where the 145 is coming from for the EMA service but I guess time will tell.

Ryanair

The Monday to Thursday evening Dublin and Thursday afternoon service
have changed to Dublin based aircraft. This only needed to happen on Thursday to accommodate the Malta and I assume the other changes are operational and to do with crewing, as I am told not to expect new services.

The FR set-up at BHX seems very straightforward now with the four based in summer, three in winter operating core sun and Polish routes with the occasional new route (such as MPL now BIQ previously) which will operate with discount fees for a year or two (sliding scale) and is then replaced by another similar route plus with as little as possible overlap with EMA.

Note BHX only has a few less services per week in winter despite the massive gulf in summer. That speaks volumes.

Pete

[Monty Gordo]

Bagso

I do not respond to your drivel because this thread is 'airlines, airports and routes'. Get a life!

Your diatribe has got nothing to do with the subject matter. End of.

[ATNotts]

Delta154

You're right, whether Manchester or Birmingham is "bestest" and each has it's strong and weak points (though some are unprepared to accept there's anything weak about their city) the problem with the UK is that there's only one game in town - LONDON.

Germany, as I have alluded to in the past is a different case - it is a federal nation where each state (certainly in the old western Germany) is roughly equal, and the major airports in each of the major states bears this out.

[Monty Gordo]

ATNotts

At last sensible discussion. You are quite right, the UK but more pointedly England has suffered for generations by having a metropolitan leaning. No matter how much provincial England seeks to adopt a more German approach to international services and facilities, the more seems to be centred in the capital.

A point in question is the siting of the Olympic Games. While the East End of London certainly has its problems with unemployment, so too do other areas and regions of the country.

So where did they site the games -- in the very spot where it is most difficult for the rest of the country to get to.

Where does Germany play most of its international football matches - Munich. Is that the capital? No. Where did we site the new national stadium, no not the centre of the country, but again in London.

Only politicians will change this attitude, but I fear they have little interest.

[hammerb32]

You'd be very surprised how many passengers do come up from North London, far easier and quicker to get to BHX than LHR if you're on or near the mainline rail network or can connect to it from the Northern Line.

[hammerb32]

Bagso, you seem to correlate the success of MAN with the success of the city of Manchester, afraid you can't, MAN is the de-facto gateway for Northern England, it sits in the middle of 4 of the UKs largest urban conurbations, Merseyside, Gtr Manc, West Yorkshire and West Mids, add Lancashire, East Yorks, Cheshire etc you begin to understand why there is no point in comparing BHX to MAN. BHX serves predominanty the city of Birmingham and in my opinion is doing a decent, not brilliant but a decent job of it. MAN serves a much wider geography and as such any comparison is between the 2 airports is frankly daft.

[PPRuNe Pop]

This is NOT a MAN v BHX thread. So, it stops right here.

PPP

[Phileas Fogg]

hammerb32,

BHX serves much more than the city of Brum.

If one forgets about LoCo's, and their are a vast number of the travelling public that have will do their utmost to avoid travelling by LoCo, and think 'proper' scheduled service, worldwide network destinations, then BHX serves the middle of England, between LON & MAN, and much of Wales also.

Which other airport, between LON & MAN, offers worldwide destinations with the likes of KLM, Swiss, Lufty, SAS, Sabena, Frog Air etc. etc. etc?

[call100]

If memory serves me right, Manchester got a head start way back when the National council for Airports disbanded and Airports went totally independent.
The council allocated development monies to airports through an application process. In the last year of it's existence Manchester was allocated nearly all of the pot for its major expansion of the terminal and stands. This gave it a massive advantage that, to be fair, it's not let go......
It will always be ahead of BHX in routes etc. It's pointless entering any war of words on something that just is and will be. However, BHX is a better airport overall In my humble opinion..

[jabird]

Either a route is viable or it isnt. There is no magic and markets cannot be 'rustled up' from nowhere.

Not so - Ryanair especially play on being able to get one over on their competitors. A good deal at both ends makes a route much more viable. Then there is the question of a/c usage - if there's a few hours to fill, but not enough time to nip out and back to the costas, send it somewhere cheap and local - but make sure you cross water, otherwise the cheapskates will take the coach.

There is always VFR, there is always some need for a business meeting, and there are always curious tourists looking for new places. These can all help fill a few rows in their own way, and people who use one airport to continue by land to another city can help make up the balance.

I content that there is already a 'market' for most European major cities from BHX - and certainly for our tired list of capitals not served (BER, MAD, STO, ATH etc).

With the right aircraft, frequency, deal at each end and marketing, all of the above, and many more could work.

Conversely, hundreds of routes each year which 'look' popular get dropped, usually because the market 'exists', but the yields are poor.

[crewmeal]

So I wonder if this has put paid to any chance of a revival of the Mahan Air's route to BHX

Accident: Mahan A306 at Mashad on Sep 4th 2011, burst tyres, runway excursion and nose gear collapse on landing (http://avherald.com/h?article=44264561&opt=0)

[grundyhead]

Air Mahan have some more aircraft that could do the route:

Mahan Air Fleet | Airfleets aviation (http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Mahan%20Air.htm)

[enigma1]

An interesting article on Emirates’ performance at MAN that BHX will no doubt want to ponder on. It's appeared in today's Manchester Evening News:

Airline Emirates today said passenger and freight figures have soared since it brought its biggest jumbo jet to Manchester a year ago.

The carrier launched the A380 on its Dubai service 12 months ago and has since added a third daily flight.

That has led to passenger numbers increasing by 50 per cent, while the amount of cargo it has flown out of Manchester has grown by 40 per cent.

UK vice-president Laurie Berryman told the MEN that Emirates hopes to bring a second jumbo to Manchester within two years, as well as upgrading the A330 aircraft it uses on its 10am daily flight to a larger A777.

He said Emirates’ expansion has been driven by a combination of businesses seeking export opportunities to the east and holidaymakers eager to explore new, far-flung destinations, particularly at a time when the pound has been performing poorly against the euro.

Mr Berryman added: “This year has been extremely successful and has exceeded all our expectations. Going back to 12 months ago, we were concerned about adding the extra capacity and it was a bit of a step into the unknown.

“However, as has been the case with Manchester time and again, we have filled the extra capacity we put into the market.”

Mr Berryman added the amount of cargo the airline carried out of the north west increased across the year by 40 per cent, with Manchester comfortably outstripping Emirates’ other UK bases, like Birmingham and Newcastle.

[jpthomas72]

Emirates’ performance at MAN that BHX will no doubt want to ponder on Bored ! Not another MAN vs. BHX. Those things have been discussed here at great lengths. Ask LH+friends and KL/AF, they are happy with us :-) Plus it's about 1h less to travel from BHX to LON than from MAN.

[delta154]

from this:

Not another MAN vs. BHX. Those things have been discussed here at great lengths

to this:

Plus it's about 1h less to travel from BHX to LON than from MAN.

well done :D

[jpthomas72]

Sorry. I suggest we close BHX then. Either the thread or even the airport.

[GayFriendly]

Just like people who gossip about others because they don't have enough to talk about from their own lives, I think the MAN vs BHX 'debate' has only happened because, lets face it, in terms of airline developments, jack :mad: is happening and is likely to happen at BHX so its easier to start going on about somewhere else that does seem to be going places. MAN always was, is and will be bigger than BHX for well documented reasons.

BHX has its place in the UK airport business but I think we have to get used to the fact that, due to its location (too close to LON for comfort), failure 10 years ago to embrace the developing loco airline business (concentrating instead on pleasing BA) and a high cost base, it isn't now as important in the UK airport league as people like to think: I very much doubt BHX will overtake LTN or EDI in pax figures or range of short haul destinations offered in the near or even longer term future. Its very unlikely either that BHX will attract a new loco base now (there's only EZY or LS in the running for that, neither are interested). What BHX does have is a solid range of European full service hub connections (although EDI is not far behind on that one) which although will not offer spectacular growth in pax numbers seem to be successful and here to stay. The question is, where can BHX turn now to achieve pax and direct destination growth? The phrase 'up the creek' comes to mind......

PS Worryingly there don't appear to be any new shop openings at BHX either......so there really will be nothing to talk about now!

[Alvechurch]

GayFriendly

There are all sorts of exciting things happening at BHX.

There's erm, a new Chief Financial Officer, probably brought in to think up ways of increasing Paul Kehoe's £300,000 a year remuneration.
Then there's a new Travelodge Hotel, probably mothballing rooms already.
Surely the most exciting thing, particularly for Mr Kehoe who is apparently an enthusiastic Greenie, we have a new Environment Manager.
The BHX environment team are a dedicated bunch who are regularly sent out to stir up local oppostion to any proposed expansion of the Airport.

More seriously, there seems to be no visible strategic plan to increase passenger numbers.
BHX is known as a quite profitable airport with managable debts but apparently little ambition to challenge rival airports.

For me the question which is never really asked is, why are Birmingham Airport's charges so high?
Typically they are double those in place at Manchester and almost treble that airport's in the off-peak period.
Birmingham seems to have fees which are near, or at, those at London airports rather than at other regional airports.

It's possible the strategy is to build, and pay for, the Runway Extension and new Tower before embarking on a cost cutting exercise which will allow BHX to attract growth by lowering charges substantially.
If that's the case, I doubt much will happen for a couple of years.

[NJTCF]

The parking charges at EGBB are very cheap.:ok:

I gather the Elmdon apron is going to have new stand markings put down.
One stand big enough for a 744. And another for a md11. Read in to this what ever you want to......................

I Think the most exciting thing going on at the moment is how rapidly the new control tower is going up and Eurojets new hangar.

[chinapattern]

Guess it could make sense, the international pier has designated markings for MD-11's yet realisticly there is more chance of a freighter MD-11 coming in. Unless of course KLM are planning an upgrade! Doesn't Elmdon have a stand for a 747? Just thinking back to the G8 summit when Air Force One parked up.

[ElBogster]

Annoucement from BHX.COM A step in the right direction?

"Birmingham Airport has recruited William Pearson as Head of Route Development to grow the Airport’s airline and route network. He joins Birmingham from Manchester Airport and is due to start his new role on the 6th October.

Currently Head of Aviation Sales at Manchester Airport, Will has an established background in aviation and has been a familiar face within the industry for some years"

Full Story

William Appointed as New Head of Route Development - Birmingham Airport (http://www.birminghamairport.co.uk/meta/news/2011/09/williampearson-news-article.aspx)

[Alvechurch]

Real news from BHX at last.
William Pearson, currently Head of Aviation Sales at Manchester, has been appointed Head of Route Development at Birmingham starting 6th October.
He'll have his work cut out as long as BHX's charges remain so high.

[crewmeal]

It must of been the negative comments on here that goaded BHX Management into doing something:D

[TSR2]

currently Head of Aviation Sales at Manchester

I wonder what that job entailed.

[ElBogster]

TSR2,

His Linkeden profile is as follows, so it does like he could be a person to move things forward...i wonder if the route development agency Mr Kehoe brought in is now Kaput!

"Head of Aviation Sales


Manchester Airport (http://www.linkedin.com/company/manchester-airport?trk=ppro_cprof)


Public Company; Airlines/Aviation industry
March 2009 – Present (2 years 7 months)
Retention of existing and development of new air services to Manchester Airport"

[grundyhead]

Heard a rumour from a handling agent today that Emirates were planning a early morning B777 followed by an A380 at lunchtime.

Anyone else heard this???

[Ian Brooks]

No and I don`t think Emirates have any spare aircraft for a couple of years

Ian

[RealFish]

Good news at last?

I had to travel across to EMA on Tues to collect little Realfish and girlfriend arriving from Rome.

Whilst I was there, in and around EMA, I saw taxis from Solihull (2), Brum, Cannock Chase and here (Lichfield District) - frustrating evidence, in my view, of the appalling failure of BHX to provide the air routes that the region, its economy and its people need.

William has got quite a task on his hands.

[grundyhead]

Ian

I did think that this rumour was rather ambitious.

We can always hope - glass half full eh?

Grundyhead

[GayFriendly]

Good luck to the new guy, I really hope this is a step (at long last, some might say too late) in the right direction for BHX in gaining some route growth.


Whilst I was there, in and around EMA, I saw taxis from Solihull (2), Brum, Cannock Chase and here (Lichfield District) - frustrating evidence, in my view, of the appalling failure of BHX to provide the air routes that the region, its economy and its people need


I wold love to know what the true numerical value of the leakage of pax from the BHX catchment area to other airports is. Unless you collect frequent flier points, want to go to the Med or just like connecting flights I think there is a huge amount of people for whom travelling to EMA, LPL, BRS and the like from areas noted above and many others in the West Midlands has become the norm for short haul flying. Lets hope this is something that is now addressed, but IMO its going to take some solid and sustained route development backed up with a massive marketing campaign to claw pax back, raise awareness of BHX and bring it back to being the gateway of choice for travel to/from the Midlands. Not an easy job. As for long haul expansion, sorry but I still have my doubts, I hope that ATQ is high on his priority list its the one long haul route BHX should be able to sustain

[OltonPete]

Not very good with IT and domestics blamed.

source CAA 945379 down 2% (964911)

Rolling year 8630195 -0.4%

ATM's 7984 -2.6% - rolling year 84477 -2.9%

Long-haul also took a hit due to Ramadan with PIA down a staggering
29%, Manchester lost 23% on their route but Heathrow was up.

Emirates was down but still managed a load factor of 82% due to many
three class aircraft operating.

Newark was down but at least four rotations were lost.

Turkmenistan way up despite using some 738's, which shows how Mahan
Air have been missed.

Turkish had its best month I believe up about a 1000 and there were five Tuesdays and Wednesdays in the month which are days it does not operate. Averaged 130 pax about 79% on 13 x A320's, 1 x A319, 1 x 738 and 6 x 321's.

Brussels was up 35% despite it dropping from 5 daily to three in the week and one of those was a Q400, which saw the load factor at 56% rather than the 40-50% in past years.

Frankfurt (down 6%) was as much disappointing (despite the BE loss) as was the Munich pleasing (up 35%).

Most city routes were up though including CPH, ZRH, AMS, DUS, HAJ, DUB and MXP with CDG slightly down and STR.

Pete

[GayFriendly]

This is certainly not to re-ignite the MAN/BHX arguments but just thought this might be of interest from the MAN thread, its a snippet from the IB press release for their new MAN & GLA routes


"Both routes serve both for point to point traffic between Madrid and two cities, and to bring traffic to the long-haul network of Iberia, particularly significant in the case of Manchester, the second city of United Kingdom and an important financial and cultural center"




If this is the view held by airline route planners and with the appalling pax figures posted by OP above (at least they are not blaming the weather or a sporting event ;)), the new guy certainly has his work cut out, if BHX can't attract IB with its long haul feed possibilities in MAD then abandon hope all ye who enter......

[Monty Gordo]

Gay Friendly

I wouldn't worry too much about that expression when 'second' is used as adjective. In city terms as it relates to airline traffic, after London Manchester is the second city. This does not in away detract from Birmingham's proper noun status as The Second City which, of course is historic and takes in many more factors than the airline business or football!

[OltonPete]

Ryanair have released some more of the summer 2012 schedule but virtually no change to this summer, Dublin three daily with Dublin based aircraft except for one on Saturday, LDY four weekly, the only sort of surprise is that Malta is bookable already on a Monday and Friday.

Emirates

Going back to a posts from earlier in the week, one source has EK receiving 21 aircraft in 2012 although I can only find about 15 potentially but new routes include Dublin, St Petersburg, Baghdad, Rio/Buenos Aires, Frankfurt gets a third flight and I know Prague is changing from the A332 to the 777 but I think there are aircraft to allocate still for 2012.

However it would be a surprise to get anything before September 2012 although the August figure was not as bad as I thought it would be. You would have thought Glasgow would be due an evening flight as the single flight averages over 400 every day most months.


Pete

[OltonPete]

Monthly passenger figures provided by the CAA, average pax and load factor
are my estimates using a BHX blog and libhomeradar. The 2010 figures are in
brackets.

Again some flybe could be out as there were some extras on the French routes and cancellations on the business destinations. Usual high load factors on most of the Ryanair flights.

I have not taken a hard look at these but they look okay but the reason for the overall decrease was given as charter and domestics. Certainly Egypt was well down as was most Turkish (Goldtrail) flights, virtually all Spanish routes were down but Greece did well.

DUBLIN 49,918 (48647)/ 140 pax/ 77% load factor
PALMA DE MALLORCA 23116 (21188)/ 156 pax/ 87%
AMSTERDAM 41,741 (37736)/ 100 pax/ 75%
DUBAI 41,568 (44333)/ 335 pax/ 82%
MALAGA 33378 (34401)/167 pax/ 90%
DALAMAN 7064 (5071) /196 pax/95% I assume includes PGT pax
FARO 23794 (21975)/ 170 pax/ 90%
ALICANTE 36332 (29361)/ 165 pax/ 89%
TENERIFE (SURREINA SOFIA) 18935 (15274)/ 189 pax/92%
PARIS (CHARLES DE GAULLE) 24,683 (255452)/ 77 pax/66%
IBIZA 10476 (11495)/ 178 pax/ 88%
FRANKFURT MAIN 22,973 (24427)/ 93 pax/ 64%
LARNACA 5379 (7549)/ 207 pax/ 97%
ARRECIFE 9818 (8270)/ 182 pax/ 90%
PAPHOS 3793 (nil)/ 210 pax/98%
MUNICH 13,977 (10321)/82 pax/76%
ZURICH 13,569 (12979)/ 74 pax/74%
MAHON 6905 (6886) /192 pax/90%
DUSSELDORF 12,147 (11732)/ 45 pax/51%
BODRUM (MILAS) 3489 (nil)/ 194 pax/91%
FUERTEVENTURA 6475 (3315)/ 180 pax/ 89%
LAS PALMAS 6582 (6868)/ 183 pax/91%
MURCIA SAN JAVIER 10,530 (11914)/ 150 pax/ 89%
REUS 4614 (4503)/ 177 pax/ 94%
NEW YORK (NEWARK) 8,762 (9758) 151 pax/86%
BRUSSELS 7,921 (5863)/ 47 pax/56%
NICE 7,646 (7666)/ 123 pax/83%
HANOVER 5367 (4339)/ 55 pax/70%
CORK 7,290 (7666)/ 61 pax/84%
ISLAMABAD 6,655 (9340)/ 196 pax/60%
GERONA 4442 (7606)/ 171 pax/90%
COPENHAGEN 5,903 (5497) 80 pax/ 65%
IRELAND WEST AIRPORT KNOCK 5,797 (6189)/ 132 pax (88%)
MONTPELLIER 5,664 (nil)/ 157 pax/ 83%
ASHKHABAD 5,540 (5478)/ 154 pax/83%
ISTANBUL 5,451 (5364)/ 130 pax/79%
MILAN (MALPENSA) 4944 (3352)/ 80 pax/ 68%
MALTA 3184 (1733) /177 pax/ 94%
BYDGOSZCZ 4,696 (4315) 181 pax/96%
BRATISLAVA 4,610 (4577)/ 177 pax/94%
SHANNON 3,658 (2819)/ 59 pax/82%
ALMERIA 3,581 (1793)/ 199 pax/93%
TORONTO 3,379 (3336)/ 338 pax/99%
RZESZOW 3,231 (3019)/ 180 pax/ 95%
KATOWICE 3,191 (2739)/ 177 pax/94%
GDANSK 3,143 (2938)/ 175 pax/92%
KAUNAS 3,117 (3035)/ 173 pax/ 92%
HAMBURG 2,977 (3581)/ 48 pax/ 62%
TRIESTE (RONCHI DEI LEGIONARI) 2,727 (2736)/ 172 pax/ 91%
STUTTGART 2,595 (3037)/ 33 pax/ 43%
BORDEAUX 2,313 (1865)/ 68 pax/ 87%
DUBROVNIK 843 (995)/ 105 pax/89%
BERGERAC 1,939 (2001)/ 57 pax/ 73%
BREST 1,749 (1241)/ 62 pax/ 80%
TOULOUSE (BLAGNAC) 1,591 (1579)/ 61 pax/ 78%
LA ROCHELLE 1,458 (1413)/ 56 pax/ 72%
WATERFORD 1,343 (1840)/ 40 pax/82%
AVIGNON 1,050 1321)/ 58 pax/ 75%
GOTEBORG 570 (671)/ 20 pax/ 43%
LYON 366 (256)/ 37 pax/ 73%

Peter

[delta154]

planning a early morning B777 followed by an A380 at lunchtime

The expansion of BHX seems to mirror that of Manchester, and they went to an A380, then a morning A330.
To jump straight to an A380 AND morning B777 is a bit too much of a huge leap, especially with passenger figures down slightly and loads of 82% (usually need to be hitting the 90's consistently before an upgrade.)

I wouldn't worry too much about that expression when 'second' is used as adjective.

But, as this is an avaition thread, and it is the aviation business that is using that adjective, shouldnt you be worried?
BHX faces an uphill struggle to gain new airline traffic as it is, with London down the road and Manchester steaming ahead to the north, and if this is the view held by the airlines, wont that affect your chances of new routes?

With the new appointment in the routes team, lets hope that some of the luck William brought to Manchester rubs off on BHX.

[JSCL]

Seems the Cyprus and Canadian route/s are looking popular - maybe some frequency increases or capacity increases (bigger a/c) could be due on those?

[ATNotts]

This is not a MAN vs. BHX posting!!!!

Press releases are written by PR people, well know for never letting the truth get in the way of a good sound bite.

Congratulations to William Pearson on his new role - welcome back to BHX!

[BobBHX]

I'm afraid this post falls within the wishful thinking / fantasy category but let me make a suggestion for a new route ex BHX.

I have just returned from a trip to Bangkok, a route I fly 4 or 5 times a year in business or first class. Usually I will fly LH, LX or EK. When I booked this trip in May, all the usual carriers were in excess of £2,000. EK was at £2,400 and seems to be pricing itself out of the market.

I found a fare on Oman Air (WY) from Frankfurt for £1,600 which I booked. Even with the add-on flight to FRA I still saved several hundred pounds.

Now, the WY schedule to FRA has their aircraft sitting on the ground for between 9 and 15 hours on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Sundays. How about an add-on leg to BHX on those days?

WY may or may not get 5th freedom rights on the route (SQ did between MUC and MAN). Even if they don't, I would have thought that with a sensible pricing strategy, WY could profit from utilising the aircraft downtime for an add-on leg to BHX.

Admittedly, WY do not have as extensive a route network as EK but they do fly to Bangkok, Kuala Lumpur, Colombo, Male and 13 destinations in India and Pakistan.

Muscat Airport was very pleasant to use, in sharp contrast to the zoo that is DXB.

[chinapattern]

Will they ever learn?

FlyComtelAir.com : Home page - FlyComtelAir (http://www.flycomtelair.com/Default.asp)

Apparantly this service starts on Saturday with a leased 757 from Privelege Style! I'll believe it when I see it, apparantly it's the same people behind Air Slovakia's BHX-BTS-ATQ service which tells you all you need to know. I hope the new head of route development will put his energies into attracting worthwhile carriers than these mickey mouse organisations!

[Aero Mad]

The fact that they can't even spell Stansted says quite a lot really.

[OltonPete]

ATQ

I think any pax even for a few weeks will be better than nothing as longs as
the airport doesn't go drooling over them if it does start.

APD

Obviously BHX does not have to compete with Dublin (just LHR & MAN ;) like Belfast but shouldn't BHX have joined forces with NI to get this extended to the English regions (Scotland and Wales as well) and see if this government is serious about boosting areas of the UK?

I don't how profitable (or not) the BHX - Newark service is but for sheer passenger numbers this summer it has been no great shakes especially when compared to BFS, although fares seem to have remained high ever since US Air disappeared off the scene.

Pete

[rodchester]

Have looked at some of the media reports on the belfast to Newark service. It seems that the APD has being a big issue for this service, but it is not the only issue, it has also being reported that the Belfast newark route is not profitable. So even though the APD has being reduced, the belfast newark route is not out of the woods yet. BHX newark has pretty much remained intact since the recession started with only minor changes in the winter like 6 daily instead of daily. Given this it must be making some kind of profit otherwise it would be facing the same fate that happen at Bristol and could happen at belfast! Plus the BHX route has being in operation since july 1997, so would be more established.

[TSR2]

with only minor changes in the winter like 6 daily instead of daily.

Wow, now that is impressive ;)

[crewmeal]

I've seen several adverts shown between the soaps for the above in the Central (West Midlands) TV area. Quite professionally made in my opinion. However if you want to book with them then it's a jaunt to MAN LBA or EMA. Unless they have future plans for BHX. Time will tell.

[getonittt]

Unless they have future plans for BHX. Time will tell.

No , they want the pax to go to them and they probably will. I have also heard the adverts for late summer flights by easyjet on the local station BRMB , advertising for a product at least 80 miles away :mad:

[chinapattern]

I'm going to a wedding in Italy next summer and I need to fly into Pisa and will be returning from Rome. This means I have to either travel to EMA or STN with Ryanair which I'm trying to avoid, travel down to BRS and fly EasyJet or travel up to MAN and fly Jet2. In an ideal world I'd fly from BHX but the flights just aren't there. It makes you wonder just how much potential business the airport looses from lack of services. In any case I think I'll opt for Jet2, I hear their service is quite good and they offer a better baggage allowance which I think I'll need for a fortnight away!

[BobBHX]

You can do it from BHX - and cheaper than Jet 2.

Taking random midweek dates in July 2012, a return flying BHX/MUC/PSA and returning FCO/BRU/BHX will cost £188.90. Flying from MAN on Jet 2, including online checkin and one checked piece of luggage will cost £197.24. You will also get free food and drink on the outbound (admittedly not on the SN flights on return).

Of course, you will also save the cost of getting to MAN.

[FQTLSteve]

Chinapatern,

There are many possibilities for the journey you plan to Pisa and Rome. KLM, AF, SN, LH to name a few. However my tip would be Swiss, I've flown many times BHX-FCO with Swiss and it's an excellent product. Free baggage, choose your own seats, pre-check-in, free bar and food service on board and ZRH is a delight to transfer through. I think you'll find the fare very competitive with the others, and especially so if you pay the loco add-ons. You will also have a choice of three departure times daily.

Swiss is one of the most pleasant ways to fly in economy and the short haul product is very good, and if anything goes wrong they look after you and take all the hassle out of the equation, they have good fares on their own site. Give it a go.

[getonittt]

In an ideal world I'd fly from BHX but the flights just aren't there. It makes you wonder just how much potential business the airport looses
Hmm , not quite true , i just had a look at AF/KLM & DLH and they both offer flights to pisa and return from rome , albeit via their hubs of course. It's not particularly cheap but the legacy carriers are not very keen if you want open ended return flights.
I hear their service is quite good and they offer a better baggage allowance which I think I'll need for a fortnight away!
No worries about that from a legacy carrier (another cost to be factored in compared to "low cost)
oh the joys of being a single spoke in a hub are endless :}

[chinapattern]

Thanks for all that - think I'll be having a good look around for the best deals. Although when I was talking about the lack of flights I was referring to direct flights rather than connections and to be fair, MAN isn't that much of a trek from Stafford and what's appealing about Jet2 is the chance to fly a 757 which is always a good thing.

[ATNotts]

Chinapattern

Cannot do more than endorse FQTLSteve's comments regarding Swiss and ZRH, having just done a BHX-ZRH-NUE and return. Service both from Helvetic (BHX-ZRH) and Swiss (ZRH-NUE) is professional, transferring at ZRH has to be the easiest hub i've ever used - so much better than FRA which is a nightmare if you've got a short connection time, and your inbound is slightly late.

If the price is right, then give LX a go. As well as their service being good, their fare was much less than their parent, Lufthansa could offer me.

[TSR2]

and what's appealing about Jet2 is the chance to fly a 757 which is always a good thing.

Sorry to disappoint you but Jet2 fly the B733 to both Pisa and Rome from Manchester. However, this still may be a good bet for direct flights if you cannot be arsed with transfers.

[Monty Gordo]

Hi folks, my better half is trying to get back to the UK from Malaga on Jan 1st. Nothing doing to BHX, BRS or EMA. Without it costing an arm and a leg, has anyone any ideas as to how to get to any of those three from either Malaga, Seville or Gibraltar, loco or legacy?
Any help would be appreciated.

[OltonPete]

Well BHX's new service lifted off tonight it seems without a problem.

ComtelAir BHX- Vienna - Amritsar left BHX on time and is estimating on time
in Vienna. The outbound Amritsar is on the Vienna website gate D63 check-in
53-58 so I assume picking up pax on the way?

At least 80 seen getting on apparently at BHX.

Flightradar24 has it descending now into Vienna for a 22.55 local departure
to Amritsar.

Aircraft was a Privilege Style Boeing 757 with a ComtelAir flight number.

No BHX press release showing as yet - I wonder why ;)

They have and quite rightly jumped on the APD bandwagon though

Birmingham Urges Government to rethink APD - Birmingham Airport (http://www.birminghamairport.co.uk/meta/news/2011/09/apd-news-article.aspx)

Pete

[TartinTon]

Monty, Monarch offer flights from Malaga to Luton/Gatwick/Manchester and Birmingham plus Gibraltar to Luton on 01Jan.

[kasuga]

Strong rumour doing the rounds at BHX that Fedex are planning a feeder B757 operating 4 nights a week, with 2 ATR's then operating to Dub and other destinations ?

If so its a good catch for BHX with a well established major freight hub in EMA just down the road.

:ok::D

[Monty Gordo]

TartinTon

Thanks for your help. booked it for the little lady...

[NJTCF]

The rumours i'm Hearing we are loosing the ATR. And a 757 will operate through BHX.

Don't quote me but probably DUB-BHX-CDG-BHX-DUB. So we will not see a Fedex ATR day stopping.

Line markings Elmdon/Western apron are all down.

One of the stands is marked up for a 744 and another for a Md11? Think the AOIs will be out this week so expect ATC Directing aircraft to stand 104 on the Elmdon apron:ok:.

Heard the ATPs might be in there last week at BHX. But they said that last week.

[GayFriendly]

Sorry not BHX related but of interest: Jet2 to start MAN-IST using 757s, with TK 23% down at MAN (not sure if this is year on year) some on the MAN thread are reckoning this could hurt them very badly. Lets hope it does not draw pax away from their BHX service as well, thats all we need! Also CY dropping all their flights from MAN at the end of Oct, leaving only LHR as their UK point served.

Its such a pity that BHX does not have a committed based carrier to start new flights, the closest we have I guess is WW but their long term future is anyones guess. I know it won't happen now but I still think Jet2 would have been good for BHX, shame they chose EMA instead. Never mind.

[chinapattern]

Set to announce four new routes before Christmas that will be launched next year - apparantly WAW is one of them, EDI also rumoured. Fingers crossed BHX is another one although if a UK route is announced my money would be on EDI to be honest.

[JSCL]

BHX can just handle Emirates - I'm not too sure Qatar will jump there just yet - Scotland is the next gold mine for them.

[roverman]

Remember that QR pulled out of LGW to go double-daily at MAN earlier this year. Priority may be to return to LGW, and surely they'll want to firmly establish the extra capacity at MAN before adding more capacity in an overlapping market (BHX).

[Ian Brooks]

Why would they want to go back to Gatwick?
3rd new route is Helsinki and it`s with a A319LR I hear

Ian

[OltonPete]

JSCL

Can you elaborate on that statement "BHX can just handle Emirates".

Do you a mean in respect of the number of pax or airport facilities?

There has been a dip in Emirates pax but hardly surprising by what has gone on up north. However load factors have remained around 80% even during Ramadan although I have no idea if there has been any pressure on yields.

As for Qatar I have to agree with Roverman if respect of establishing the second Manchester service first before BHX is considered.

BHX has one thing going for it re Qatar and that it is the only one of the "big three" offering connections to Amritsar. However I am reliably told Doha - Amritsar doesn't have a great need to be boosted by connections from BHX :(

On separate matter how about BHX-MAD?
IAG - International Airlines Group - News Release (http://www.iairgroup.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=240949&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1614550&highlight=)

I still think a Nostrum CRJ1000 is the ideal aircraft for the route but obviously Iberia don't share my belief ;)

Pete

[GayFriendly]

With EK for whatever reason (aircraft shortages?) not adding a second daily at GLA I think QR will step in at EDI, there is demand for a second Middle East flight from Scotland. BHX IMO is out the running with QR due to expansion at MAN and proximity of LHR - didn't stop EK but they set up at BHX in very different economic times. One day BHX will get a new route, that'll be the HS2 to LHR ;)

[OltonPete]

BBC News - Birmingham take-off for Thomson Airways cooking oil plane (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-15191275)

First Bio-fuel flight from the UK on a commercial flight.

Quite a bit of local coverage.

Was originally due to be Palma from July every week
but delayed and it is now Arrecife. On its way back
to BHX now.

Pete

[MAG-BHX]

Tonight is the last BHX-DUB flight (dep 01:00 7th)Coventry is back up and open until 01:00 with an 1 hour extra if needed.This also means the Night Express aircraft are gone as well as they have transfer freight onboard from FRA onwards to DUB.Another 2 airlines lost.

[chinapattern]

Turkmenistan Airlines have ordered x2 77L's. Would be a nice upgrade for BHX.

[Centre cities]

They were only ever borrowed in the first place and were always going to move back to base when the opportunity arose.


Centre cities

[OltonPete]

More flights to India - Birmingham Airport (http://www.birminghamairport.co.uk/meta/news/2011/10/comtel-news-article.aspx)

BHX go public after a reasonable start.

There was a delay during the first weekend but that was sorted and all went well last weekend.

A pretty quick expansion but I suppose Mahan left a gap in the market.

Pete

[GayFriendly]

Should we all be cautiously optimistic? It would be beyond great if this operation finally makes a success of the ATQ route from BHX after countless failed starts. The press release also points out that VIE is now also a destination from BHX, I thought it was just a tech stop en route, not an actual destination in its own right? Nice if true, its a great city break destination.

I really do hope this operation succeeds and more importantly lasts the duration, it is the first 'new' route to take off from BHX in ages (OK reintroduced route but thats as good as it gets at BHX!): with MAN completely spanking BHX's arse in new routes for 2012 at least there is something, albeit small, to shout about at BHX :ok: We also have FCO, LIS and BCN to add to the departure board in 2012, assuming WW survive the sale of BMI.....I just wish FR and BE would add some new routes instead of just treading water

[Ringwayman]

I thought UK regions to India was unrestricted in frequency? Obviously not going of "This stop is due to restrictions on the number of direct flights permitted from the UK, imposed by the Indian Government."

[johnnychips]

Is it a fuel stop, or could a 757 go all the way non-stop?

And why stop in Vienna rather than somewhere else? Are there lots of Sikhs there? I remember a few years back - the details escape me - there was a service from Birmingham to India stopping in Bratislava (only 50 miles or so from VIE), where there certainly aren't many Sikhs!

[grundyhead]

BBC News - Birmingham Airport near miss caused by radio mix-up (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-15283328)

[Yak97]

It is all a matter of traffic rights.

There are insufficient allowed flights from UK to ATQ.

But there are slots available from other countries (Austria, Slovakia etc) as they don't have a large passenger base.

So the flight is actually operated as BHX - VIE and the VIE - ATQ, with the passengers being through ticketed.

[GayFriendly]

Done a bit of research on the Comtel air web site, apparently the flight is scheduled as far as Vienna then a charter to/from ATQ. Optimistically it says they are trying for scheduled rights and these will 'be announced shortly'. Either way lets hope they succeed.

On a less positive note, in usual one step forward five steps back BHX style, it seems that all BE French routes have been dropped for summer 2012 apart from CDG and a pathetic weekly AVN - so thats EGC, TLS, LRH, BES gone: the route bleed from BHX just goes on and on and on, summer 2012 will surely see the fewest scheduled destinations offered since perhaps the 90's and way down on 2008 when I think there were 90 or so direct scheduled destinations as a result of expansion (not heard that word in a long time at BHX) by WW and FR.

And finally I know its not known for accuracy but Wikipedia is listing Egyptair Cargo as a BHX cargo operator to CAI?! Can't be true surely?

[Burpbot]

Grundy, OLD news and shocking reporting from the BBC!!! :mad:

[HeliCraig]

It's not old news, as the formal report was issued today by the AAIB and that is what they are (fairly accurately as it happens) reporting on.

[OltonPete]

GF

Not too sure about the flybe summer 2012 schedule if it is the final release, as the timings of the flights still require nine based but with gaps to fill -hopefully not more flights to cut.

Aer Arann Waterford was bookable last night and it isn't today after 14/11/11.

A Mint Airways 757 operated the new Thursday Vienna/Amritsar.

Other upgrades today included an Air France A320 on the A318 flight
and as planned a Lufthansa A319 on the 735 Frankfurt flight plus four based flybe 195 operating tonight instead of two (HAJ & GLA) although I doubt that was passenger load related more of a Q400 shortage.

There are stirrings on the cargo front allegedly but Egyptair is not one I have
heard off.

Pete

[chinapattern]

An A300 made an appearance once so obviously it is a regular user!:ugh:

http://bhxflightguide.********.com/2011/02/saturday-26-february-2011.html

Link doesn't appear to work but if you scroll through to 26th February 2011 you'll find the article.

[crewmeal]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but another blow to BHX

AerArann Suspends 7 Routes in W11; Ends Galway Service | AIRLINE ROUTE (http://airlineroute.net/2011/10/16/re-w11cxld/)

I guess the flying programme for winter is quieter than last year.

[nigel osborne]

Re Egypt Air..

Yes it was a one off flight handled by Blue City Aviation, if you go to their website they have a photo of them handling it...hmm looks fiddly needed a main deck loader !:O


Blue City Aviation Cargo Aircraft Handling Services (http://www.bluecityaviation.co.uk/)

[Les Behan]

Are you sure it wasn't a main Deck loader?

Looks on it's way down with the load to me.

[OltonPete]

Source: CAA

September 2011 904114 -1.5%, rolling year 8616719 -0.3%

ATM's 8033 -2.3% Rolling year 84227 -2.6%

The excuse that all airports are suffering is wearing thin -

LTN up 7.9%
MAN up 6.5%
LPL up 5%
BRS up 1.5%
EDI up 3.1%
GLA up 3.2%
BFS up 4.1%
LGW up 4.9%
LHR up 1.4%
LCY up 6.7%

BHX in the naughty corner with STN, NCL, CWL and well........

Individual routes are up and down as you would expect, Turkish was
the star compared to previous months and although there some 321's
it was still only five weekly.

Pete

[GayFriendly]

So, the green shoots of recovery are being happily felt at a range of UK Airports with some healthy increases. The only green shoots being seen at BHX are those of grass growing in place of ATM's and pax (and at last more bums on TK seats :ok:). BHX will be on the decline (in terms of pax figures) until it can pull in some new routes and airlines to limit the leakage of pax to other airports that offer a better range of European destinations. The excuse wearing thin in my book is that these flights (MAD, FCO and other cities that have been mentioned so many times on this thread) are available from BHX via a hub - yes these services have their place but for many they are not a cost or time effective way to travel.

BHX needs an increase in direct destination and airline choices, whether this is by full service or low cost (or a combination of both). Why can it not pull this off? Even more worryingly is the fact that existing operators are not expanding their operations (OK, WW has three re-introduced routes in 2012), is BHX that much of a low yielding market for airlines? If it is, no wonder BHX still haven't courted the interest of IB to serve MAD when GLA and MAN have....

[nigel osborne]

Lee.Re Egypt Air

I spoke to somone who unloaded it that night, definitely NOT a main deck loader they don't have one Im told!:eek:


For starters told it didn't even make it as high as the A300 deck which is why it was 4 hrs late going out.BHX at this time did not have a main deck loader for freighters :O,although rumours they might buy one..hmm:bored:

Nigel

[nigel osborne]

Gayfriendly,

Yes TK figures are a lot better, but don't forget Mahan ceased operations and PIA have cut capacity, so expect a lot of these extra passengers are due to this .

Nigel

[BHX5DME]

Heathrow – 68,815,642 up 4.6% and record ever rolling figure

Gatwick – 33,194,112 up 5.3% (highest ever was 35,601,289 in March 2008)

Manchester – 18,672,879 up 5.6% (highest ever was 22,578,836 in July 2006)

Stansted – 18,269,537 down 3.2% (highest ever was 24,037,747 in October 2007)

Luton – 9,409,045 up 8.0% (highest ever was 10,298,765 in October 2008)

Edinburgh – 9,231,163 up 6.1% and a record ever rolling total

Birmingham – 8,622,400 down 0.4% (highest ever was 9,628,254 in December 2008)

Glasgow – 6,823,390 up 3.3% (highest ever was 8,924,427 in May 2007)

Bristol – 5,777,976 down 0.1% (highest ever was 6,364,047 in October 2008)

[Les Behan]

Nigel,


How exactly do you think it was off-loaded and loaded without a Main Deck Loader? Were they launched into space to be caught on a lower deck? Perhaps parachuted off onto a revolving train of dollies?

I hope your "snouts" were rather better informed in the past than the one you have now.

Nor was it 4 hours late, it was on the ground for 4 hours, with 40,000 kgs off-loaded and 40,000 kgs loaded, not a bad effort for a first A300 with little facilities.(and a bloody miracle without a Main-Deck!).

[OltonPete]

Les

Per SBS logs landed 20.38 26/2 departed 02.17 27/2 give or take a bit I would say over five hours 30 minutes on the ground.

Pete

[call100]

Nigel,


How exactly do you think it was off-loaded and loaded without a Main Deck Loader? Were they launched into space to be caught on a lower deck? Perhaps parachuted off onto a revolving train of dollies?

I hope your "snouts" were rather better informed in the past than the one you have now.

Nor was it 4 hours late, it was on the ground for 4 hours, with 40,000 kgs off-loaded and 40,000 kgs loaded, not a bad effort for a first A300 with little facilities.(and a bloody miracle without a Main-Deck!).

:):):);)

Also, BHX don't own any main deck loaders......Perhaps the handling agents might though!!!

[MAG-BHX]

The Main Deck loader was borrowed to Blue City by Servisair, they had already tried 2 of them prior which did not reach the door, they were third time lucky :)

[Derwent Dale]

......replace borrowed with hired......

[GayFriendly]

I never for one moment imagined that so much comment would be sparked off about a one off freight movement I found listed on Wikipedia......although as I know nothing about cargo loading and unloading, I am more interested in why Egyptair Cargo came to BHX in the first place and what exactly was this troublesome to offload cargo?

[Les Behan]

Wasn't at all troublesome to offload, with a Main Deck loader!

Was just a one-off, car parts for LandRover, was flown in because of being stuck in the docks at Cairo for some time due to the "revolution" at the time I think.

However, if it all kicks off again because of the Coptics, could become more regular!

[Les Behan]

For some reason, even though am writing LandRover it is coming up with Trabant!

Sorted by taking out the space, but very strange!

[OltonPete]

Sources: Monthly pax from the CAA, average pax from using a bhx blog &
libhomeradar.

Some rotations have been estimated and so has some of the load factors. With Frankfurt, Dusseldorf, Munich, Amsterdam, Zurich, Brussels, Copenhagen

I have used planespotters net for seats and these tend to be the maximum all economy where in fact the middle seat is left vacant in business etc. 2010 figures in brackets

Brussels /12932 (9735)/ 52 pax/ 61% load factor
Larnaca /5324 (7584)/ 205 pax/ 96%
Paphos /3214 (nil)/ 201 pax/ 94%
Copenhagen /7864 (6834)/ 82 pax/ 75%
Bergerac /1467 (1173)/ 52 pax/ 67%
Avignon /96 (nil)/ 48 pax/ 62%
Biarittz /nil (1874)
Bordeaux /724 (nil)/ 52 pax/ 66%
Brest /290 ()/ 48 pax/ 62%
La Rochelle /584 (561)/ 37 pax/ 47%
Lyon /3594 (3022)/ 38 pax/ 76%
Nice /5900 (5742)/ 128 pax/ 86%
Paris CDG /28044 (31402)/ 82 pax/ 76%
Toulouse / 361 (308)/ 45 pax/ 56%
Dusseldorf /15927 (15036)/ 46 pax/ 53%
Frankfurt/ 25799 (26155)/ 108 pax/ 69%
Hamburg 2676 (2950)/ 45 pax/ 57%
Hanover /6045 (4910)/ 59 pax/ 76%
Munich /12909 (11882)/ 72 pax/ 80%
Niederheim / nil (3608)
Stuttgart /4133 (3615)/ 43 pax/ 56%
Cork /6973 (6252)/ 58 pax/ 81%
Dublin/ 44942 (50245)/ 131 pax/72%
Knock /4082 (4226)/ 107 pax/ 72%
Shannon /3032 (2312)/ 51 pax/ 70%
Waterford /1120 (1320)/ 31 pax/ 64%
Milan / 5308 (3883)/ 88 pax/ 75%
Trieste /2580 (2509)/ 143 pax/ 76%
Malta /3232 (2163)/ 180 pax/ 95%
Amsterdam / 43833 (37898)/ 107 pax/ 78%
Faro / 22357 (21818)/ 177 pax/ 93%
Oporto / nil (2521)
Alicante / 25456 (26851)/ 163 pax/ 88 pax
Almeria / 3536 (1821)/ 196 pax/ 92%
Girona / 4509 (5795)/ 173 pax/ 92%
Ibiza / 10993 (10910)/ 177 pax/ 87%
Mahon /7275 (6281) 202 pax/ 94%
Malaga / 32366 (31070)/ 167 pax/ 90%
Murcia /9386 (10607)/ 151 pax /89%
Palma / 20312 (19211)/ 159 pax/ 87%
Reus / 4304 (4270) /166 pax/ 88%
Arrecife / 9599 (8003)/ 185 pax/ 92%
Fuerteventura /6188 (3494)/ 182/ 91%
LasPalmas / 5936 (6239)/ 186/ 92%
Tenerife /16635 (14406)/ 189 pax/ 93%
Gothenberg / 1328 (1911)/ 26 pax/ 59%
Zurich /13324 (12465)/ 76 pax/ 74%
Bodrum/ 2042 (nil)/ 176 pax/ 80%
Dalaman/ 6663 (4940)/ 196 pax/ 94%
Istanbul / 5875 (4268)/ 134 pax/ 80-85%
Kaunas / 2384 (2999) / 149 pax/ 79%
Bydogszcz / 4338 (4377)/ 167 pax/ 88%
Gdansk / 2573 (2643)/ 161 pax/ 85%
Katowice /3051 (2608)/ 170 pax/ 90%
Krakow /nil (4291)
Rzesnow /2769 (3049)/ 173 pax/ 92%
Bratislava /4325 (4319) /166 pax/ 88%
Ashkhbad /5068 (5470)/ 149 pax/ 78%
Tehran / nil (4240)
Dubai / 42499 (43731) /354 pax (83%
Islamabad / 8364 (8684) /246 pax/ 76%
Newark /9520 (9609) / 159 pax/ 91%

So not looking too bad in general with the major European cities looking quite
good.

No doubt Istanbul is the pick but even Stuttgart increased without extra
capacity.

Pete

[EGBE0523]

Pete,
As fascinating as your stats are could you possible sort them into alphabetical order or even by load factor high to low before uploading? thanks

[Ian Brooks]

They are in order taken from CAA web site as they are in country and region order

Ian

[nigel osborne]

Les, Gayfriendly,all,

Its a very important issues as without one BHX cannot handle 747/MD-11 freighters as it has done in the past,(Tower Air,Kalitta,Polar Air,World,Gemini, MAS,Lufthansa) etc.

Can you also confirm that BHX now have a loader that can get up to and unload a 747 freighter, as BHX confirmed to me they didn't have one last year.

I heard recently they were going to buy one but no one will confirm if they now have one.

However I am told they have recently marked out a 747/MD-11 stand Elmdon side which if true suggests they will need one.:ok:

Nigel

[OltonPete]

EGBE0523

Ian has summed it up beautifully, my time is limited (believe it or not) and at present this is the easiest way but if I can format it in a more user friendly way in the future I will.

BMI Baby Prague

Hurrah - not quite a brand new route but re-instated. First flight (again) Friday 21 October 2011 17.45. It will be four a week (five a week briefly in December) on Monday, Thursday, Friday & Sunday until next May when it drops to three a week.

Pete

[getonittt]

Thank you pete for sharing the information you have , it really tells a story that all routes are performing well in these current hard times , and the decrease seems to be the cessation for no particular reason of ex RYR routes (BIQ, OPO, NDN & KRK) .

No doubt Istanbul is the pick but even Stuttgart increased without extra
capacity

It's interesting you mention Stuttgart as i'm a pretty regular user of this service and when i travelled in september both legs were pretty much full. This is a little gem of a route and it's no wonder it's probably , together with Milan , one of the only routes that still survive having been passed down from the original birmingham executive days and has had continuous service. in my opinion it would be a prime route for the EMB175 , certainly in the summer anyway.

[MAG-BHX]

HiCan anybody offer any info on the Comtel Air operation from BHXThanks in advance.

[sam1993]

Courtesy of flyintobhx.co.uk - Birmingham Airport's No.1 enthusiast web site (http://www.flyintobhx.co.uk:)
Takhar Travel, a travel agent with a long history within the Indian market have now commenced a new twice weekly charter service from Birmingham to Amritsar. Comtel Air (the latest airline for the travel agent) started flights on the 1st October 2011 and like before (with Air Sylhet/Akal Air) operates via Vienna due to Indian traffic rights. Comtel Air will initially be using a Privilege Style Boeing 757-200 during the month of October before being handed over to Mint Airways from November who will also be using a 757-200.

Initial bookings have been very good with a load factor just under 90%, clearly benefiting from the withdrawal of the Mahan Air service. As a result, Comtel Air are already planning a 3rd weekly service on a Friday. The airline will also pick up and drop off passengers in Vienna. View the new schedules below...

Comtel Air schedules:
COE731/732 Arr 17:15 - Dep 18:40 - Saturday & Sunday .

[call100]

Les, Gayfriendly,all,

Its a very important issues as without one BHX cannot handle 747/MD-11 freighters as it has done in the past,(Tower Air,Kalitta,Polar Air,World,Gemini, MAS,Lufthansa) etc.

Can you also confirm that BHX now have a loader that can get up to and unload a 747 freighter, as BHX confirmed to me they didn't have one last year.

I heard recently they were going to buy one but no one will confirm if they now have one.

However I am told they have recently marked out a 747/MD-11 stand Elmdon side which if true suggests they will need one.:ok:

Nigel

Why would the airport buy a main deck loader??

[fjencl]

Bmi are basing a second Airbus at MAN to operate 2 of the 3 MUC flights for LH.

I wonder if they will do this at BHX....

Any info appreciated

Thanks

[OltonPete]

fjencl

Not heard anything and although there would be a cost saving on the night-stopping crews it would be a hefty increase in the number of seats.

BHX is currently 2 x 116-seat 195's and 1 x 86 seat CRJ900. The A319 is
max 138 seats I believe with the new slim seats and that is probably a bit excessive for BHX at present.

Frankfurt was slightly different as the A320 was helped by flybe pulling their flights although this was after the BMI A320 arriving.

Munich did briefly go 3 x 195 and the load factor remained constant at about 75% but it didn't last. Whether this was due to poor yields or aircraft availability I don't know.

Pete

[fjencl]

Many thanks for the info

[Les Behan]

"Why would the airport buy a main deck loader??"

Indeed, cargo doesn't go shopping...

[Guest 112233]

I think its time to start watching the economic "Weather Vanes" for the West Midlands and the catchment area as a whole. Re the comments regarding MUC, (OP's figures are as always; are very enlightening). the numbers for this route seem at first glance; to be increasing.

LH like any company; will try to maximize its profits, so If they can operate a route successfully, with an EMB195 x 2 and a CRJ900, they will do just that. I suspect that they, like all the major airlines; will be utilizing "Yield management" analysis techniques to "fit" the number of seats available to the estimated future demand.

I bet the same applies for any other route. So until we get industrial economic growth in the West Midlands, the passenger figures will remain static.

Specific routes will always be subject to competitive pressures caused by what happens at the major centers' like Manchester and the London airports.

The demand for leisure destinations is very competitive and price sensitive with lots of options available from MAN,EMA,LUT and BRS. The management of the airport have historically attempted to attract business from the legacy airline companies, with a smattering of Lo Co's

Where are the routes to Central Europe ? or services to Madrid or Barcelona for onward connections to S.America. (Instinct suggests a 2 x daily with an early morning arrival/departure and an evening flight for overnight long haul/ returning passengers )

So if the decline in passenger numbers at airports like Birmingham is to be arrested, it will be by schemes like the prospective Chinese engine assembly/development center in Wolverhampton to generate both incoming and outbound traffic (No pun intended).

I'm no economist, but the decline in activity at BHX and elsewhere; is intrinsically linked to economic activity in the respective catchment areas.

So for the mid term (5 - 10 Years), the best thing that can happen is the coming of Airliners like the A320 NEO, the equivalent B73 and the EMB, for secondary airports providing links to the major European centers of activity.

Forget fantasies about long haul services, runway extensions etc.

CAT III

[ATNotts]

CATIII-NDB

What a superbly written and argued piece! I believe you are spot on with regard to the catalyst for growth at BHX - namely real jobs being created in a real (as opposed to public sector driven) economy.

Presently those that did particularly well in the last few years (the public sector) are suffering with job insecurity and no one with any sense fritters money on short breaks and holidays whilst they don't have job security.

On the other hand the business services, driven by the private sector, and what remains of Midlands manufacturing are driving up passengers on the main non leisure routes.

The local "hate figure" Paul Kehoe seems to be doing a good job for his shareholders, which is after all his remit, though he's clearly not pleasing the local enthusiast community, nor many of those who work for the airport company. This clearly proves you can please "some of the people some of the time" but not "all of the people all of the time"!

[OltonPete]

CATIII-NDB

I agree in principle although long-haul might be fantasy, the runway extension will be reality by the look of it, like it or not or extra traffic or not. Apparently compulsory purchase orders are out for two local businesses.

ATNotts

I would imagine the local councils are glad of any kind of dividend but I wouldn't like to second-guess about Ontario Teachers.

PK has instigated staff cuts, charges for baggage trolleys and revamped the car parking on the back of the Glasgow incident, which produced the goods in last year's accounts but also is the reason for the flak. On the positive side the terminal is reasonable and the new Control Tower started.

If this forms a good foundation for the future then who can argue and it is early days although sometimes I think the airport PR could be better such as the Armavia farce and this latest serious article about technology with the associations to Disney etc

Birmingham Airport strives to offer passengers Disney-style experience (http://www.airport-world.com/news-articles/item/1078-birmingham-airport-strives-to-offer-passengers-disney-style-experience)

Pete

[Centre cities]

Some good arguments but one thing has not been mentioned and I believe this was from Mr K himself. More BHX catchment area passengers fly from other airports that any other, 60% was mentioned. Claw some of those customers back and BHX will grow even in the economic downturn.

One are the local enthusiasts are correct about if you don’t have the major routes you don’t get the customers.


Centre cities

[crewmeal]

Claw some of those customers back and BHX will grow even in the economic downturn.

But what are you going to provide for these passengers? The European route structure is not stable enough as has been discussed in many threads. Bmibaby are revamping the BHX programme, but for how long? The BMI group is looking to be sold off. There is no national carrier at BHX, just low cost operators charging a fortune to go to the handful of European destinations. The only stable carriers seem to be KL/AF.

[Centre cities]

Crewmeal.

I never said that it would be easy (no link to the airline intended) but there are lots of local passengers going elsewhere even when there are options from BHX.


Centre cities

[ssflyer]

Tripadvisor replies to enquiry as why flight to Cancun refuels at Manchester.
Air Travel Forum: Birmingham uk to cancum Thomson airlines - TripAdvisor (http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowTopic-g1-i10702-k4898155-Birmingham_uk_to_cancum_Thomson_airlines-Air_Travel.html)

[BobBHX]

I was on the 0705 MUC on Saturday and it was completely full in Y (I got an op-up as a result!). The return 1535 yesterday only had 48 pax. That Sunday afternoon flight is usually very busy. I don't see any commercial sense in upping capacity unless there are 320s (and crews) doing nothing following any sale of BMI.

[chinapattern]

Noticed that summer 2012 will see Kos going twice-weekly operating Monday now aswell as Thursday. Not exactly the most exciting announcement I know but at least it's a positive one.

[OltonPete]

chinapattern

Also Mahon has finally gone back to twice weekly with a Monday service,
which I think operates from another base.

Kos is in place of the second Corfu, which replaced a SSH this summer.

The Tuesday Tenerife remains which was a replacement this year for Hurghada.

Another change is the Thursday HER shifting to Friday to replace a DLM and the Thursday slot seems to be taken with a second ACE.

Pete

[xanda_man]

ssflyer - this weird about the BHX-CUN flight refuelling at MAN.

I went out on this flight on 23rd August and it was direct BHX-CUN with about 95%+ load.

I did some checking up on this flight and it hadn't completed a fuel stop in a considerable amount of time and further conversations with a TOM FO (in CUN departure lounge prior to the return journey :ok:) suggested the diversion was no longer required since the installation of the winglets on the 763's - can we assume this was weather related (i.e - extra fuel due to weather enroute or over the pond etc?)

Alex.

[splash&dash]

Xanda Man. Hope this helps-

BHX runway is shorter than MAN. The longer the runway the more weight and distance can be flown. ( BHX runway extension begins next year so this will not be an issue soon ) :ok:

I know of 3 seperate reasons why 'sometimes' the CUN flight goes via MAN-

1 - Crew utilisation. Depending on crewing patterns the flight sometimes is crewed by MAN crew and will be tied in with 2 and 3 below.

2 - Weight. This flight is on a such fine margin with weight verses BHXs runway length. If the flight is roughly 95% full OR LESS, little or no cargo, and weather predictions on route are pretty standard then it can operate non stop to CUN with or without winglets. However with winglets does offer a 5% advantage in regards to fuel burn.

3 - Cargo. If a significant amount of cargo is booked for this flight it is loaded at MAN. As MAN runway is longer than BHX this flight can operate fully laden no problem.

As a pax on this flight, going non stop is perfect as once I went via MAN and I was onbourd for 14.5hrs! When in MAN pax are kept on board whilst cargo and fuel are loaded and crew changed. This was a very long day and too long for young families IMHO. Return flight to BHX was a breeze at 9.5hrs.

Like I said, when BHX runway extension is completed these issues will be solved for good. About time too!

[groundhogbhx]

The flight goes direct now because the load is restricted to approx 250. The refuelling stop in MAN was due to taking 283 or more and the weather being against the flight, worst case the wind being too strong for 33 but too light to get the weight off 15. As they couldn't guarantee going direct every week it was scheduled for the stop in MAN.

[OltonPete]

A pretty compelling case to get one of Thomson's first few 787's
(see Doncaster & Manchester threads) especially as BHX has one
of the shortest runways compared to Thomson's other long-haul bases :hmm:

Pete

[chinapattern]

I'm hoping that with the arrival of the 787's Thomson will re-introduce some long haul services from BHX like Punta Cana/La Romana, either with the new aircraft or with some freed up 767's. Are Thomson definatley getting there 787's by February?

[787Heaven]

Absolutely no way will they be delivered by February im afraid they havent even begun to be built. Word on the grapevine has been June 2012 for ages but then there are rumours that they will not arrive till January 2013.

Thomson is expecting frames after line number 50.

[Chidken Sangwich]

TOM 787's - the first one is programmed from Sep 2012 (278 seats from memory), but you wont be seeing a based one at BHX as they are all going to live in MAN and LGW.

Latest update from my contact is now Jan 2013 for first delivery as suits TOM better (not a Boeing delay).

[787Heaven]

Have the bases been announced then? i do remember being told that it will be LGW MAN initially but then they would go to other bases aswell. Shows how out of the loop i am at work lol!

[Chidken Sangwich]

I dont really think the bases are being 'announced' as such. The aircraft will just replace the MAN and LGW 767's initially as there's no 787 ground support in place (or planned to be) that TOM can use in BHX.

That's what I was told anyway.

[787Heaven]

Well i have to say that is a shame, i bet more international airlines could make a BHX route work with a 787. I must say tho i will be glad to ride the shiny new 787 here at LGW :D:D

[OltonPete]

BHX & BRS have been mentioned in past press releases but I suppose with such a new airliner it is prudent to keep them near to your major engineering bases although I would imagine they won't want to keep BHX & BRS waiting too long if it will end the possibility of any tech stops.

However since the winglets have been added to the 763's I think the number of tech-stops from BHX have reduced considerably.

I see airhumberside's reply on the Doncaster thread has explained it is just information from OAG, which although is accurate at the time of input I am sure as others have pointed out things change and don't always get updated quickly.

Pete

[groundhogbhx]

It's not so much the winglets as reducing capacity from 283 to 258 that cuts the tech stops. That makes a 2.5 tonne difference in the planned payload that does it.

Chinapattern, those routes are cruise destinations, the flights go to where the boat will be so can change year on year depending on the boats program.

[chinapattern]

I thought the whole purprose of Thomson ordering the 787's was the opportunity to expand at regional bases such as BHX and BRS as well as the likes of MAN and LGW. I think it's quite understandable that the first few frames will be based at the bigger bases until any teething problems are ironed out but as more join the fleet I should imagine BHX, BRS, NCL and EMA should see a fair few 787 movements.

RE cruise destinations: I know they've operated Barbados, Aruba, Accapulco and Havana in the past but as far as I'm aware the Punta Cana and Puerto Plata flights were both weekly and part of package holiday deals which Thomson switched to EMA while La Romana, which operated fortnightly, was dropped altogether and replaced with an extra flight to Montego Bay.

[groundhogbhx]

Holidays were sold for the flights but only to fill the aircraft, usually 20 or so, the majority were cruise passengers.

[xanda_man]

cheers Splash&Dash

Thanks for the info, I get the whole runway length thing with BHX :ok:
You mentioned your return was 9.5 hours however our flight back on 6th Sept (TOM569 CUN-BHX) was completed in just over 8.5 hours. Bloody good going considering we were dodging weather around the Dominican.

Thanks groundhog, didn't realise they were limiting the load now but suppose it makes more sense.

Will be good to see the 787's in when they eventually get them, if they did get put on the BHX-CUN run then a week away would be worth it for a new type.

Alex.

[BHX5DME]

BBC News - Birmingham-to-Chicago flight 'should be re-introduced' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-15463981)

[chinapattern]

Resuming 22nd December according to the source that is Wikipedia. Anyone confirm?

[ATNotts]

Very laudible that the City Council and business leaders should go to Chicago and have a meeting with United. From recent press reports is seems that they are in far better shape to reintroduce ORD-BHX than AA would be, so they are probably backing the right horse, especially given United existing presence in BHX.

What is always so infuriating is that the same business leaders that rightly push for services such as this don't in reality use them, instead preferring LHR for the number of daily services available from there, giving them real flexibility with open tickets.

Still, fingers crossed for a good outcome

MAHAN

Would I trust Wikipeadia to provide reliable information...well, no, I'd rather see something on Mahan's website.

[delta154]

RE Mahan, its probably due to this:

Schedule from 22DEC11:

W5010 IKA0930 – 1230BHX 313 4
W5009 BHX1430 – 0005+1IKA 313 4

Mahan Air Suspends Birmingham UK Service until late-Dec 2011 | Airline Route (http://airlineroute.net/2011/10/26/w5-bhx-w11/)

[chinapattern]

I'm curious as to how they were doing on the route. With Amritstar gone was there still enough demand to Tehran and remaining connections?

[scodaman]

Bit of carry on tonight at Birmingham

Passengers refuse to leave plane at Birmingham Airport
About 100 passengers are refusing to leave a plane at Birmingham Airport, according to a woman on the aircraft.

The Viking Hellas flight was originally scheduled to leave from Manchester for Athens at 13:00 BST, but passengers were then taken by bus to Birmingham.

There they had been allowed to board a plane due to leave at 17:00, but were then told they would not be taking off and their luggage was removed.

etc

BBC News - Passengers refuse to leave plane at Birmingham Airport (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-15502972)

[Monty Gordo]

Reflected (un)glory..... That's just the sort of publicity BHX don't want to be mired into. The flight was not due to leave from BHX yet the impression is left that there has been 'a passenger dispute' at the aiport.

Yet there is nothing on the MAN thread, where the problem originated and ended. A funny old world isn't it....

[GayFriendly]

Am I right in thinking that Mahan survived mostly because of transit pax to/from ATQ? If so then they must be having second thoughts about reintroducing the route from BHX as Comtel Air are now settled in. Having said that their ticket desk is still in situ at BHX so who knows.....

[OltonPete]

Schedule flights see little change to last year but a quick overview and of course all subject to change.

Lufthansa

FRA - Four daily every day with the only LH operated service moving slight earlier and scheduled to be a B733 most times. The three BMI A320's add significant weekend capacity compared to last winter.

MUC - Same frequency as last winter with three daily in the week and two at weekends. However a reasonable capacity increase last winter as the first and last inbound to BHX are 116 seat EMB195's compared to CRJ900's last year.

DUS - No Contactair F100 this winter but capacity is difficult to judge due to the adhoc use of the 737. The Thursday evening seems to have the 733 scheduled. flybe of course will also increase once the elusive 175 turns up.

SAS - The morning service appears to be increased with the weekday a MD80 scheduled and a new Saturday service (or re-instated).

Air France - The most significant increase of the winter schedule (but not previous ones) with the introduction of mainline on all three services with the A318 on the afternoon and evening run replacing the RJ85's - yippee

KLM Again the most significant aspect is the removal of the F70 with the EMB190 taking over making 2 of the 5 services with this equipment. As for the other three services these change from a mix of 737-700's and 738's. The usual is 2 x 700 and 1 x 800 but sometimes it is 3 x 700's.

Aer Arann - Finish on the Waterford mid month but via Aer Lingus Regional double daily Cork and single Shannon both increases on 2010/11 due to the Saturday operation.

PIA - Currently like last winter starts as 3 x 77W's but their timetable shows it soon back to four a week from 18/12 with the 772.

Aer Lingus Thursday as well as Friday sees four daily Dublin and Sunday is three daily as with Monday-Thursday (Sat is two).

easyjet - Restart 10th December on GVA & GNB weekend only but GVA
by the 15th is daily (double daily Saturday and Sunday). At times Saturday operates at three daily but Tuesday doesn't always see a flight. Both routes end 15/04/2011.

BMI Baby - Three based but mainly two in service and Malaga stops half through November as planned. Alicante breaks in the New Year again until February half-term. Prague is the boost with it four weekly and five for a couple of weeks in December.

Ryanair - 61 flights I think I counted which is up on last November I believe with Kaunas re-instated and Alicante increased yes increased to four a week. Malta did not start until December 2010 so that is also an increase along with an extra Arrecife rotation. Three out of the four based operate with KRK and NRN lost from last winter. I think the three Dublin on a Saturday is an increase and of course the twice weekly Faro and FUE.

Monarch - Some cuts from last winter no doubt due to the FR FUE and increase on ACE but possibly also due to what is looking like an all A321 operation compared to a based A320 operating every day last winter. FUE does operate off and on, with frequency reductions on TFS, ACE, LPA, LCA
and AGP (Nov only as it was reduced in the New Year).

Little or no change on the rest, TK is 5 a week (738/A320), SN have cut the Saturday morning (was BMIR 145), CO is the same as last winter other than Wednesday appears cut until May rather than March and Swiss plus City Airline is no change.
Charter/IT

Thomson start on the back foot with a 738 operating alongside two 757's and the occasional 763. Friday is a disaster with one Med flight to TFS after the HUG and Marsa Alam were pulled. HUG does operate Friday with Thomas Cook.

Boa Vista is added as new route for Thomson on Tuesday but the long-running all year round Saturday Alicante is now November, Feb onwards.
Taba and Luxor have been lost due to the obvious reason.

Long-haul is also not looking good with Cancun on a Thursday and Montego Bay on a Sunday in November and early December before it changes to Bridgetown in late Dec. There are some cruise flights.

Thomas Cook is two based 757's and they operate every day in November with the usual December reductions. Banjul is still going on Tuesdays.

Ski I will touch upon in more detail another day but it looks similar with the Austrian INN still bookable for Saturdays and so is the new flybe ILD. Flybe are quite busy ski wise.

Pete

[beamer]

Xanda

Just to expand on the 767 issue a little.

767 can make Cancun without undue difficulty especially with winglets and reduced capacity in the cabin to make way for premium class. On a bad day however, wet, low pressure, 90 degree crosswind ( standard BHX ! ) then things can get a little tight depending upon the fuel requirement for a given sector on a given day. FCA used to push their longhaul up to EMA which had a longer runway in the correct direction ( prevailing winds) - the much trumpeted runway extension will make life easier if it ever materialises and maybe just maybe the economic situation in the Midlands will have improved and load factors will rise.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Does anyone know why EI416 Dublin-Bologna diverted to BHX at about 13.45 and departed again at 14.50. A321-200 (EI-CPH)

[OltonPete]

EI-EIDW

Medical divert and has left now for Dublin

Pete

[Ringwayman]

I believe CO operates New York- Berlin using 757s and that's a bigger distance that BHX-ORD, and besides we're not talking a huge amount of extra miles when comparing distances from ORD to BHX and MAN.

[Jamie2k9]

Their 767-300s Trans Atlantic are all 3 class with first class,business premium and just 80 economy seats,way to many top end for BHX.Current CO/UA 757s to EWR only have 12 up front the rest economy.



The plan is that United are converting there 3 class B763's to 2 class but they due to base most of them and operate out of EWR which would leave a lot of CO 757 around which would lightly to moved to IAD and ORD to name a few. A 757 could operate ORD - BHX. The UA 763 converted will also replace CO B762.

[dionysius]

Whilst I appreciate that it is the start of the Winter season, it looks as if it will be a bleak winter for BHX and its resident airlines, last week we have had an FR departing with just 1 pax, a few ZB's with single figures and more than usual TOM positioning flights.

it will be interesting to see Olton Petes stats for Oct, IMO one or two airlines may be hard pressed to survive, as most economists are predicting that 2012 is going to see the worst of the recession.

Even the "staycations" are suffering as a large caravan dealership went into receivership last week, so people just do not have the money for overseas travel/holidays ??

[FR-]

We are not in a recession anymore!

Many airlines on the last flight of the season will have low pax numbers on the way out but high on the return, esp with the school holidays. Alot from BHX went out with 0-30pax each but rnt with 180-189.

The cost of a new caravan cost much more a week away in the sun. And I know which one I would rather have.

Its people like yourself who put doom and gloom in the media. Why can you not look on the blight side.

fr-

[dionysius]

fr, sorry to rattle your cage, but just voicing my opinion, and to be fair in your last sentence you seemed to agree :

Why can you not look on the blight side.:ok:

[Flightmech]

Have it on good authority that FedEx will start using the 757F into BHX as early as Feb 2012. Replacing the current ACL ATR. Routing CDG-MAN-BHX-CDG. (Daystop MAN)

[TartinTon]

dionysius, all routes that are coming to an end for the summer would be leaving with single figure pax on them. Just as when they start next summer the first inbounds will be all but empty too. It happens every year and not just at BHX....

[787Heaven]

Totally agree, the airline i work for operates plenty of routes only in the summer/winter meaning flights will go out empty or with a very sparse load Outbound and full inbound on routes ending for the season and vice versa for new routes beginning.

Completely normal operation and it does in no way reflect on the airport operated from.