BIRMINGHAM - 5

[groundhogbhx]

An A321 with aux tanks, how will clc cope:ugh:

[OltonPete]

Munich is a bit of a surprise at four weekly.

Nothing much changed as yet on existing routes as far as I can see just
need to see the frequency for Barcelona.

I assume the two extra aircraft announced are for winter are just the extra
two staying from this summer. Last winter was three operational and this
winter needed four and I assume that it will now be six.

This covers the Baby losses as they only operated two/three aircraft a day
last winter ranging from two flights to six. Even if there are less frequencies there is a minimum of 25 seats extra per sector with the 174 seat A320.

Hopefully Monarch will take some Baby FD & CC as well.

[GayFriendly]

It has been rumoured that the potential contenders for MON are BHX, LBA, EMA and CWL

Rumoured/announced (haven't had time to check) are LBA-MUC and LBA-GNB as ZB schedules - could these be W pattern flights with BHX based a/c? MUC frequency as stated here ex BHX is odd but LH often quite expensive on this route and ZB are continuing MXP this winter at a similar type of frequency so there must be a demand for price conscious (as opposed to frequency and less cost conscious) travellers on these type of city routes from BHX. FNC and SSH no surprise and welcome additions if true. I think ZB have real faith in BHX and wouldn't be surprised with more routes next summer, although think there is more yet to be announced from EMA depending on a/c availability.

[chinapattern]

Surprised to see Munich added to the network, makes me wonder if the closure of bmibaby had been announced earlier they might have looked at Prague. Guess they still might. What equipment with SSH be? Can the A321's do it or might we see something bigger drop in to do the flight?

[GayFriendly]

Route announcements/new destinations across the ZB bases on Tuesday - although I assume those on the Cosmos site (FNC, GNB, SSH, MUC) are the new routes for BHX and that EMA will see more in addition to those announced this week. I guess BHX-BCN will also be loaded into to the booking engine. There could still be more to come from ZB from BHX but all depends on a/c availability in the end, in a report in Travel Weekly their Chief Exec states that BHX will be a major base for growth in the next few years (although those comments would have been made before the WW news this week)

[Hotel Tango]

Have MON got that much spare capacity, or are they going to be leasing in some additional aircraft to take on all these new routes?

[LGS6753]

Munich will presumably be a winter (ski) destination, served mainly at weekends.

Monarch generally don't serve destinations daily, some of their routes are initially run once a week, building gradually.

A recent announcement talked of a plan to increase the fleet from c30 aircraft to c40, so presumably these announcements (not necessarily East Mids) are steps in this direction.

[OltonPete]

Hotel Tango

Monarch BHX base is currently 6 aircraft and the original winter schedule required just 4 aircraft but there is now a need for 5 or 6 and BHX itself stated two extra will be based. I assume from this the two aircraft that were to lay-over in winter will not (subject to planned maintenance) and I suspect the main issue will be crewing the flights.

LGS6753 - Munich starts late September per the Cosmos booking engine although the route is not officially launched, so I realise this could change.

flybe - I have received an e-mail this morning stating more jets will be put on the BHX-BHD and option to transfer your baby booking is being worked on. They are also encouraging passengers to book BHX-EDI & GLA and then change it free of charge if required to East Midlands again pending on bringing forward the EMA flights.

[Jack1985]

I can see Lisbon potentially going unserved again - although wouldn't surprise me to see Monarch take the route up in Summer 2013. Being optimistic it looks like Wizz Air will swoop in for Prague from either Birmingham or East Midlands (Most Probable) - Also Birmingham to Knock to be taken up by Aer Lingus Regional effective 10th June with a single daily service, Aer Lingus Regional Birmingham/Dublin flight cancelled effective 9th June passengers being transferred onto mainline Aer Lingus flights.

[Daza]

I agree with the last post LIS and PRG are the least likely routes to be replaced at BHX.
Hopefully NCE will be picked up as historically this route has done well ex BHX I remember large Club Class loads when BA operated the 1-11 on the route on Summer weekends. Those were the days!
Monarch will cover the Sun routes, FCO and BCN. Hopefully there wont be great passenger losses ex BHX :)

My thoughts are with the WW employees lets hope MON/Jet2/Flybe will take on many of the staff. :)

[chinapattern]

Interesting that FR and planning a base from LIS next year and no mention of BHX in the destination list; only STN, EDI, BRI and MAN.

[Daza]

Ryanair have little interest in developing BHX any further. They are probably at the end of their zero charges from BHX and haven't been able to bully BHX into letting them have the concessions continued. Im surprised they haven't done a staged pullout to reduce fees as they are doing at EDI.

[crewmeal]

It's been suggested elsewhere on this forum that with the announcement of IAG's Q1 results that they will also announce a shake up of routes that BMI/BMED operated. It also suggests that BA will operate a B777 direct flight to ATQ. This surely will have an impact on any proposed flights from BHX.

Mr Kehoe have you missed yet another opportunity?

[ATNotts]

I'm struggling to understand how Mr. Kehoe could be blamed for "missing an opportunity" where a BA route to Amritsar is concerned.

"London Airways" has no interest in servicing international destinations unless they are from LHR or LGW. Air India is in a financial mess, as are Kingfisher so where does an operator on BHX / ATQ come from/

BHX / ATQ is a low yield VFR route, in all honesty probably best serviced by quasi charter operations, and carriers such as Turkmenistan. Unfortunately, with the exception of Turkmen. these quasi charter ops have a pretty poor service or longevity record.

[GayFriendly]

Not that many of you don't already know but flights now oficcially bookable with ZB from BHX to SSH, FNC, MUC and GNB this winter. Wonder if they will work a bit harder next time to keep new routes hush hush till official launch next time there are route announcements!

I hope somene picks up BHX-NCE as this seems to have historically done well, LIS and PRG don't seem to be attracting any interest so far.

Be interesting to see what lies ahead for next summer for ZB routes from BHX, maybe more Italian routes, PSA and NAP spring to mind, further afield maybe Morocco and Tunisia?

[TartinTon]

Gayfriendly, I understand that Monarch actually were working quite hard to keep things quiet. Unfortunately their in-house tour operator wasn't working quite so hard........:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[GayFriendly]

Just seen that Iberia Express are testing the waters at EDI with twice weekly A320 flights Jul-Aug. A possibility for BHX-MAD in the (I hope not too distant)future?

Am flying IB MAN-MAD-MAN next Fri/Mon (tried my best to go from BHX but cheapest fares were around £300 return with AF/KL :rolleyes:) IB were half that :ok:Will be interesting to see how busy the flights are, also have never flown IB before either!

[Monty Gordo]

I'm travelling internally in Brazil in a couple of weeks time and have to transfer from Rio de Janeiro International Airport to Rio's Santos Dumont airport. Has anyone had to make the same switch and if so, any advice, tips etc....

[Suzeman]

I'm travelling internally in Brazil in a couple of weeks time and have to transfer from Rio de Janeiro International Airport to Rio's Santos Dumont airport. Has anyone had to make the same switch and if so, any advice, tips etc....

And the relevance to Birmingham is?? :confused:

[Monty Gordo]

....Only that my journey starts at BHX with KLM and travelling internally into Brazil might be a route other businessmen take and may have experience to pass on.

[Welshtraveller]

Which airline operates Flybe's Birmingham to Milan route in June? Is it one of the new aircrafts? Thanks

[OltonPete]

Welshtraveller

The original schedule shows the EMB195 which are 3.5 - 5.5 years old.

Of course flybe are very flexible with their aircraft and the DUS 175 could be
subbed-in on the flight last minute if their were any tech problems but this is unlikely and I don't think has happened yet.

The 175 is down to operate the Milan this winter in place of the Q400 with the 195 operating the afternoon DUS.

[ZULUBOY]

Really hope this delay doesn't affect the BHX flights. Hopefully they'll just fly into Tegel until BER opens

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "I'm travelling internally in Brazil in a couple of weeks time and have to transfer from Rio de Janeiro International Airport to Rio's Santos Dumont airport. Has anyone had to make the same switch and if so, any advice, tips etc...."

Monty Gordo, have a look at this:

To and From the Airport.com - Rio de Janeiro (http://www.toandfromtheairport.com/riodejaneiro.html)


Happy landings! Hope you're stopping over in Rio for a few days.....

[Monty Gordo]

Thanks for the info, a great help.

Schedule does not permit time in Rio on the way out hence your info on finding the best and safest way between the two airports is very helpful. Plan to stop over though on the way back from Goiania.

Once again, thanks.

[GayFriendly]

Really hope this delay doesn't affect the BHX flights. Hopefully they'll just fly into Tegel until BER opens

So do I!! Am booked on it twice over the summer to visit family - guess there could be another re-timing of flights or in worst case scenario I will end up being rerouted via FRA or MUC if the direct flight doesn't start :rolleyes: Still can't be helped I suppose. I should imagine LH are doing their very best to operate their full schedule to/from TXL but it is already a heavily congested airport, this could be a PR disaster in the making for LH?

[Welshtraveller]

Many thanks OltonPete (http://www.pprune.org/members/130959-oltonpete), very useful.

[OltonPete]

GF

Most flights seem to be going ahead from Tegal per the press release but I remain sceptical, plenty have cast doubt that TXL will cope. I am on the first flight and the flight times have changed three times already and there is little give with TXL night curfew (22.30 arrival)!

Lufthansa ® - Current travel information (http://www.lufthansa.com/de/en/Travel-information)

KLM

From 2/7/12 the KL1425/6 lunchtime flight is now showing as the 737-700W.

Hardly going to cover the 496 seats a day lost from BMI Baby but a start I suppose and I doubt they could do much due to the lack of time.

Odd that the EIR ATR72 Dublin flight has gone back on sale rather than Knock announced although not seen it myself as I just can't get their site to work half the time - must be my computer settings.

Pete

[Suzeman]

..Only that my journey starts at BHX with KLM and travelling internally into Brazil might be a route other businessmen take and may have experience to pass on.

OK; fair comment Mr Gordo - and you got some useful replies.

Might be worth thinking of a separate thread for this type of query next time as someone with knowledge of your query might not be bothered with the BHX thread but would pick it up if it was a separate one.

Anyway enjoy Brazil :ok:

Suzeman

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "I'm travelling internally in Brazil in a couple of weeks time and have to transfer from Rio de Janeiro International Airport to Rio's Santos Dumont airport. Has anyone had to make the same switch and if so, any advice, tips etc...."

Monty Gordo, have a look at this as well:

Galeão GIG Airport Public Bus, GIG Coach Services and GIG Private Bus Transfers in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil (http://www.ihatetaxis.com/airport/GIG-Galeao-International-Airport/bus)

[OltonPete]

CAA figures: April 2012 BHX 701541 up 2.4% rolling year 8608598 - 0.6

ATM's 6866 +2.1 rolling year 83309 -2.3%

I have not seen the breakdown between charter and passengers but Manchester was certainly dragged down by a significant decrease in IT pax.

BHX had on extra Monarch based and virtually one extra BMI baby
compared to April 2011.

Pete

[GayFriendly]

Great news about pax figures, will be interested to see the usual OP breakdown by route, extra ZB this summer should help but WW more than likely closure in Sept might then cloud things

Just found this on FR website


3 Jun – 4 Aug: Brandenburg Berlin Airport

The operators of Berlin Brandenburg Airport have announced that it is necessary to postpone the commencement of flights to/from this airport from the 3rd of June to the 5th of August 2012.
Ryanair flights scheduled to operate to/from Berlin Brandenburg Airport from the 3rd June – 4th August 2012 will now operate to/from Berlin Schönefeld airport.
Berlin Schönefeld is on the same site as Berlin Brandenburg Airport
Email notification will be sent to all affected passengers.

I am flying mid July and have had no email from LH yet......I wonder if BER will now be delayed from BHX? Can't see LH operating to SXF having avoided it like the plague for years although it would be quite ironic if they did! TXL will not be able to cope with all these extra flights if thats what LH does do. My second flight is mid Aug so hopefully will be sorted by then :)

[BHX5DME]

AMSTERDAM 42,671 down -2.98
DUBLIN 41,554 down -3.28
DUBAI 39,490 down -12.37
ALICANTE 30,854 up 8.11
PARIS (CHARLES DE GAULLE) 30,171 up 7.42
MALAGA 28,091 down -3.66
TENERIFE (SURREINA SOFIA) 27,647 down -3.97
FRANKFURT MAIN 23,737 down -1.23
PALMA DE MALLORCA 18,502 up 4.41
FARO 16,765 down -13.43
ARRECIFE 15,610 down -7.90
MUNICH 13,353 up 23.67
DUSSELDORF 13,171 down -2.00
ZURICH 11,607 down -5.30
ISLAMABAD 10,121 up 0.18
LAS PALMAS 9,749 up 15.70
PAPHOS 8,579 up 158.48
SHARM EL SHEIKH (OPHIRA) 8,533 down -4.55
ROME (FIUMICINO) 8,513 n/a 0.00
DALAMAN 8,486 up 4.26
BRUSSELS 8,366 down -4.03
FUERTEVENTURA 8,142 down -16.88
ISTANBUL 7,428 up 51.04
MURCIA SAN JAVIER 6,982 down -5.64
COPENHAGEN 6,979 down -2.21
HANOVER 6,903 up 7.41
NEW YORK (NEWARK) 6,650 down -23.34
LARNACA 6,550 down -31.25
GENEVA 6,426 down -18.20
CORK 6,371 up 8.33
ASHKHABAD 5,629 up 4.01
MILAN (MALPENSA) 5,425 up 53.16
ANTALYA 5,371 up 72.42
IRELAND WEST(KNOCK) 5,232 up 33.40
GERONA 4,787 up 28.54
PRAGUE 4,378 n/a 0.00
KATOWICE 4,232 up 42.20
BYDGOSZCZ 4,070 down -6.95
BARCELONA 3,913 n/a 0.00
BRATISLAVA 3,844 down -9.55
VENICE 3,592 up 1532.73
REUS 3,544 down -0.53
NICE 3,438 up 14.07
IBIZA 3,392 up 13.18
ALMERIA 3,363 up 17.88
STUTTGART 3,171 up 16.97
RZESZOW 3,001 up 13.85
SHANNON 2,976 down -0.30
MALTA 2,976 down -36.56
KAUNAS 2,870 up 7.73
GDANSK 2,587 down -8.03
MAHON 2,489 down -15.31
BUDAPEST 2,367 n/a 0.00
MONTPELLIER 2,308 up 32.72
MONTEGO BAY 2,055 up 17.63
HAMBURG 2,036 up 2.11
TRIESTE (RONCHI DEI LEGIONARI) 1,951 up 2.52
CANCUN 1,910 down -45.00
SANFORD 1,904 up 50.63
FUNCHAL 1,806 up 15.77
LISBON 1,749 n/a 0.00
HERAKLION 1,649 up 8.34
ILHA DO SAL C.VERDE 1,620 down -8.78
BODRUM (MILAS) 1,556 up 4.43
WATERFORD 1,554 up 28.96
HURGHADA 1,486 down -55.79
CHAMBERY 1,482 down -35.48
BANJUL 1,469 down -3.16
BOA VISTA (RABIL) 1,435 n/a 0.00
RHODES 1,429 down -5.92
NAPLES 1,412 up 14.05
BRIDGETOWN 1,376 up 64.20
PADERBORN 1,266 up 50.71
GRENOBLE 1,192 down -30.25
GOTEBORG 1,049 down -14.02
INNSBRUCK 1,040 up 1.27
TURIN 790 up 416.34
ORLANDO 416 n/a 0.00
TARBES-LOURDES INTERNATIONAL 264 up 17.86
ST PETERSBURG 139 n/a 0.00
PERPIGNAN 113 up 25.56
TOULOUSE (BLAGNAC) 105 n/a 0.00
ROTTERDAM 56 n/a 0.00

[Occams Razor]

These two jumped out at me:

DUBAI 39,490 down -12.37
NEW YORK (NEWARK) 6,650 down -23.34

Anything to be worried about?

[OltonPete]

Occams Razor

The Newark was strange as there were four pre-planned cancellations as well as the Wednesday flight did not start until May. They were cancelled months before as I was comparing prices on BHX-EWR in April before finally deciding to use my Airmiles on JFK - LHR.

Therefore there were only 44 rotations this April leaving an average of 151 per flight or 89% (169 seats)

Last April 60 rotations at 145 per flight at an average of 83% (175 seats).

Belfast suffered the same and of course Manchester went from two daily for one although it was in preparation of the Washington starting in May.

As for EK all the UK routes were down other than Manchester and they only added just over 3000 with any extra flight a day.

On the positive side Islamabad was up when LHR and MAN were down. Average 298 seats at 85%.

Pete

[GayFriendly]

And these two jumped out at me:

MILAN (MALPENSA) 5,425 up 53.16

IRELAND WEST(KNOCK) 5,232 up 33.40

On figures alone ZB obviously having a positive impact on MXP! As for NOC, increased frequency has increased pax numbers, shame EI haven't jumped in on what is likely to be a lost route come Sept.

Again, on figures alone, a good start made by BUD, nice to see and BE doing well on WAT

NCE up 14% I hope someone takes that on eventually, although it's probably lean pickings as a year round route?

[Occams Razor]

Thanks OltonPete, comprehensive as ever :)

[OltonPete]

Berlin

My reservation has changed to Tegal same times at the moment. So it does seem to be going ahead with a 22.30 arrival at Tegal and our hotel in the eastern part of the city :hmm:

Palma

Ryanair have added a Monday morning Palma for August inbound 08.35
departs BHX 09.00.

Porto re-appeared earlier in the booking engine although it seems to come and go that one. I don't think it ever got taken out of the online check-in.

Pete

[OltonPete]

The BHX-BHD booking engine has been updated to 7 x 195's operating Monday - Friday, 2 x 175 on a Saturday plus a Q400 with Sunday 1 x 175 and 3 x 195.

Not quite all jet but pretty close. Compared to summer 2011 with Baby on the route, there is an average weekday about 100 less seats a day.

The second 175 is still down for 1/6/12 STR x 2 daily and HAM daily in the week but it seems to disappear to Glasgow from July for their Southampton route and the Q400 returns for STR & HAM until winter.

However 2 x 175's scheduled at the weekend all summer at present.

In high summer the DUS 175 in the afternoon is non-ops and the 175 operates some French increased frequency routes such as Bergerac and Avignon.

I am sure a lot of this is work in progress due to the Baby situation.

Pete

[Burpbot]

Not sure where your info is from Pete, but know for fact dash is flying str in June, Routing HAM/STR :(

I really hope your right though!!!

[chinapattern]

On figures alone ZB obviously having a positive impact on MXP! As for NOC, increased frequency has increased pax numbers, shame EI haven't jumped in on what is likely to be a lost route come Sept.

They have! Officially confirmed for 11th June daily with Aer Lingus regional, pity it wasn't mainline because one of the new A319's would be perfect for the route IMHO.

[DannyKelly22]

thats not possible for an A319 to operate the route though as both of these operate from BFS

[GayFriendly]

Great news about NOC (although not yet actually bookable) but not surprising as EI had their eye on this route before WW announced route increases. Good to have a daily service maybe next summer some flights will be upgraded to an Airbus?

So just NCE, PRG and LIS looking like they might drop off the destination map after Sept.....they have EZY written all over them but that idea is becoming increasingly like wishful thinking again....its just BFS to be from them as a year round route? I hope KL increase some rotations to 738 or 739 to cater for loss of WW on AMS route.

[ATNotts]

I hope KL increase some rotations to 738 or 739 to cater for loss of WW on AMS route

Looking back on Pete's load factor figures my somewhat rusty maths calculate that at a 75% load factor on the AMS route in March, this equates to roughly 13510 empty seats in the month, which is approx 450 per day in a 30 day month, or 225 each way - roughly two out and back rotations every calendar day.

On that basis, KL should be able to sweep up all the displaced WW passengers without greatly increasing capacity themselves.

Thats all very simplistic, but it raises the question as to whether increasing yield, which would be the result of a close on 100% load factor might be preferable to increasing available capacity? It would certainly be kinder to the environment!

[OltonPete]

Burpbot

It has been it GDS and the flybe timetable for months and still was last night.

However the seat-map has now changed back to the Q400 :(

KLM

The lunchtime E190 is already showing as the B737-700W and 900's
on some of the other flights at various times.



Pete

[OltonPete]

The announcement is due later today I believe including Barcelona but
the booking engine shows eight based from the start of the school holidays.

Rome - goes daily with Monday & Wednesday added in the morning

Alicante - Tuesday and Sunday afternoon added (9 a week)

Palma - Tues & Thu afternoon plus Friday morning added (11 a week)

Malaga - Mon, Wed, Fri & Sunday afternoon added (3 daily Fri & Sun - 14 a week)

Ibiza - Wed afternoon added (will be 6 a week)

Tenerife - Saturday afternoon added (8 a week)

Could this leave BCN Tue/Th/Sa/Sun morning & Monday afternoon?

I have obviously missed some as there are gaps but this might not be
the full schedule.

Pete

[Alloy]

I think Nice will be in that Monarch launch list as well as the above.

[chinapattern]

Flights now bookable;

BCN x4 weekly (Sat, Sun, Tue, Thu) from 21st July and NCE daily from 20th July.

[Dysneyland]

NCE? Well that is a surprise. According to the BMI Baby Schedule, they will operate BHX-NCE-BHX until September 10th whereas EMA-NCE-EMA will stop on June 10th... is this a popular route even during winter?

[GayFriendly]

Dysneyland

With BCN and NCE added it's now eight based ZB at BHX? :D

I don't think BHX-NCE has ever operated right through the winter and looking at ZB timetable it seems to finish at the end of Oct, unless they are still tweaking the winter schedule? It might work ex BHX 2/3 times pw in winter though? I do have a feeling though that WW did operate it during the winter (at some point) from EMA?

Flight times much better for BHX-BCN than WW managed. I like the fact that ZB are operating at the same time every day unlike WW whose times and days operated seem to change wildly on an almost weekly basis....

[Dysneyland]

GayFriendly

You are probably right, it's probably more strategical than likely this route will continue non-stop over Winter 12'.
It just seems odd that two airlines will compete from July to September but eh NCE gotta be more profitable than I thought.

..and with low fares starting from 5€, you can't go wrong with this! :}

[chinapattern]

Are Monarch grabbing all the ex-TOM/FCA planes then? As the two new units are both A320's I can't see where else they'd be coming from.

[OltonPete]

Burpbot

The second 175 seems to have changed route but it is difficult to keep up with the changes.

The 175 is due late May at BHX and at present it starts on BHX-STR on1/6/12 but it then changes on 11/6/12 to BHX-GLA replacing the BHX based 195.

This 195 then starts on the current Q400 flight first out on BHX-BHD.

Next two 175 deliveries

Flybe (http://www.jethros.org.uk/fleets/fleet_listings/flybe.htm)

Therefore the spare 195 remains as it is now spare/stand-by.

Monarch

Very impressive schedule in high-summer with a minimum of 16 departures a day with a high of 19 on a Saturday.

GF - I think Baby operated Nice one winter at twice weekly Tuesday and Saturday but it lasted just the one season.

I would hope for BCN to continue.

Still plenty of rumours doing the rounds but away from the ex Baby routes.

Pete

[OltonPete]

Monthly passengers figures from the CAA the rest are estimates from using a BHX blog and libhomeradar. However a difficult month with Easter cancellations and libhomeradar having gaps in respect of the data.

Anything with flybe is estimated usually based on expected rotations with some deductions to take into account of Easter.

Schedule flights only with the 2011 figures in brackets if the route has a mixture of schedule and IT pax, with only the schedule pax shown.

AMSTERDAM 42,671 down -2.98 - 104 pax pr flight - 78% load factor
DUBLIN 41,554 down -3.28 - 121 pax - 67%
DUBAI 39,490 down -12.37 - 329 pax - 77%
ALICANTE 26365 (22767) - 155 pax - 83%
PARIS (CHARLES DE GAULLE) 30,171 up 7.42 - 91 pax - 79%
MALAGA 25862 (27477) - 154 pax - 83%
TENERIFE (SURREINA SOFIA) 16075 (16679) - 167 pax - 83%
FRANKFURT MAIN 23,737 down -1.23 - 101 pax - 66%
PALMA DE MALLORCA 13464 (13375) - 143 pax - 75%
FARO 16,765 down -13.43 - 155 pax - 80%
ARRECIFE 8103 (9826) - 169 pax - 84%
MUNICH 13,353 up 23.67 - 85 pax - 73%
DUSSELDORF 13,171 down -2.00 - 47 pax - 55%
ZURICH 11,607 down -5.30 - 68 pax - 69%
ISLAMABAD 10,121 up 0.18 - 298 pax - 85%
LAS PALMAS 6002 (5615) - 167 pax - 83%
PAPHOS 3349 (nil) - 186 pax - 87%
ROME (FIUMICINO) 8,513 n/a 0.00 - 109 pax - 67%
DALAMAN 3409 (2833) - 189 pax - 88%
BRUSSELS 8,366 down -4.03 - 44 pax - 55%
FUERTEVENTURA 4720 (5307) - 139 pax - 69%
ISTANBUL 7,428 up 51.04 - 124 pax - 79%
MURCIA SAN JAVIER 6,982 down -5.64 - 125 pax - 73%
COPENHAGEN 6,979 down -2.21 - 79 pax - 71%
HANOVER 5241 (4641) - 51 pax - 60%
NEW YORK (NEWARK) 6,650 down -23.34 - 151 pax - 89%
LARNACA 5000 (6895) - 192 pax - 90%
GENEVA 4952 (6957) - 138 pax - 89%
CORK 6,371 up 8.33 - 53 pax - 74%
ASHKHABAD 5,629 up 4.01 - 156 pax - 83%
MILAN (MALPENSA) 5,425 up 53.16 - 63 pax - 41%
IRELAND WEST(KNOCK) 5,232 up 33.40 - 109 pax - 73%
GERONA 4,787 up 28.54 - 141 pax - 75%
PRAGUE 4,378 n/a 0.00 - 122 pax - 82%
KATOWICE 4,232 up 42.20 - 163 pax - 86%
BYDGOSZCZ 4,070 down -6.95 - 170 pax - 90%
BARCELONA 3,913 n/a 0.00 - 109 pax - 73%
BRATISLAVA 3,844 down -9.55 - 160 pax - 85%
VENICE 3,592 up 1532.73 - 106 pax - 61%
REUS 3,544 down -0.53 - 136 pax - 72%
NICE 3,438 up 14.07 - 107 pax - 72%
IBIZA 3,392 up 13.18 - 131 pax - 69%
ALMERIA 3,363 up 17.88 - 187 pax - 87%
STUTTGART 2909 (2711) - 34 pax - 43%
RZESZOW 3,001 up 13.85 - 167 pax - 88%
SHANNON 2,976 down -0.30 - 50 pax - 69%
MALTA 2,976 down -36.56 - 165 pax - 87%
KAUNAS 2,870 up 7.73 - 159 pax - 84%
GDANSK 2,587 down -8.03 - 162 pax - 86%
MAHON 2,489 down -15.31 - 138 pax - 72%
BUDAPEST 2,367 n/a 0.00 - 148 pax - 78%
MONTPELLIER 2,308 up 32.72 - 128 pax - 68%
HAMBURG 2,036 up 2.11 - 39 pax - 50%
TRIESTE 1,951 up 2.52 - 108 pax - 57%
LISBON 1,749 n/a 0.00 - 109 pax - 73%
WATERFORD 1,554 up 28.96 - 26 pax - 33%
GRENOBLE 1,192 down -30.25 - 119 pax - 76%
GOTEBORG 1,049 down -14.02 - 26 pax - 59%

Pete

[crewmeal]

Dubai figures down again. No chance of a 3rd service or an A380 for the foreseeable future.

[boeing767]

Monarch indeed expanding operations in Birmingham for late S12:

Birmingham – Barcelona NEW 4 weekly service
Birmingham – Nice NEW 1 Daily service
Birmingham – Alicante 3 additional weekly flights
Birmingham – Dalaman 1 additional weekly flight
Birmingham – Faro 2 additional weekly flights
Birmingham – Ibiza 1 additional weekly flight
Birmingham – Malaga 4 additional weekly flights
Birmingham – Palma Malloca 3 additional weekly flights
Birmingham – Rome 2 additional weekly flights
Birmingham – Tenerife 1 additional weekly flight


And for Summer 2013, these routes will be operating on year-round basis:

Birmingham – Barcelona
Birmingham – Funchal
Birmingham – Munich
Birmingham – Nice
Birmingham – Sharm el Sheikh

[Monty Gordo]

On the basis that it is relevant to airlines operating out of Bhx, are there any rumours as to who might snap up the BMI-baby check-in area at the airport. Would be an ideal fit for Easy if it was to move in with a fresh raft of destinations......

[grundyhead]

Dubai figures down again. No chance of a 3rd service or an A380 for the foreseeable future

They could save plenty of fuel by swapping 2 B777-300 ER rotations for a A380 :ok:

[nigel osborne]

Grundyhead

The big problem BHX has is that it just can't entice enough first or business class passengers.

With Emirates they only needed to fill 4 first class seats and 24 business class seats per flight ,to get the 3 class 77Ws MAN,LGW,GLA,LHR has. Yet obviously EK don't think they can as BHX still flies 2 class.

It is therefore a huge step up to fill twice as many first class and business class seats on an A380.They don't operate any in 2 class. :sad:


Nigel

[groundhogbhx]

No problem in the front of the a/c or underneath, most days. Why do people focus on load factor when it is yield that is important.

[GayFriendly]

On the basis that it is relevant to airlines operating out of Bhx, are there any rumours as to who might snap up the BMI-baby check-in area at the airport


I should imagine MON/ZB would be wanting first dibs on that with the big increase in flights operated this summer onwards? They have a very small check in area at present, I can't imagine it coping that well in high summer, I read that there will be 19 ZB departures on a Sat in July and August.

Much as I would love to agree with you Monty I doubt an vacant set of check in desks will entice EZY to BHX.....I would really like to hear someone in the know from EZY explain why EZY consider BHX to be such a total no go option for either a proper base or to be served from other bases apart from seasonal GVA and year round BFS

[groundhogbhx]

I wouldn't call 10+ checkin desks dedicated to ZB as a small area.

[nigel osborne]

Gayfriendly,

Easy Jet are very clear about why they are not interested in a BHX base,and have stated repeatedly that yield is not high enough at BHX.Whether that is true or not, that is their official line.

Nigel

[groundhogbhx]

You will probably find that the desks will just be de-branded and used just like all the other general desks.

[CabinCrewe]

The EZY low yield was an excuse used initially at GLA also, but they have quite a developed network now, so I am not buying that....

[ATNotts]

Nigel

I don't buy the low yield arguement either. On the bucket and spade routes there's no such thing as high yield, nor probably on traditional weekend break destinations, such as Prague, Barcelona etc.

However, I seem to recall that due to the high numbers of inbound business travellers to BHX for events at the NEC and ICC, BA Regional actually had quite a lot of higher yield traffic on business routes. If EZY were to put resources into routes such as CPH, MUC, BER, ZRH (not GVA), MIL, MAD etc with proper frequency (minimum daily) then they would surely get better yield.

Unfortunately, these routes are already served, in the main, by LH and their Star Alliance mates so they would be starting as the new kids on the block, and perhaps, at this tough economic time, they don't want to take the risk.

[nigel osborne]

ATNOTTS,

Andrew yes I agree re the yield, but thats what they keep telling BHX.It was raised at the last Forum and repeated.

Suppose to make money for BHX full fare airlines probably bring more in than low cost, which is why long term BHX is in a better position to make more money than the likes of STN,LTN on the passenger side..

However thats another can of worms !

Nigel

[OltonPete]

Contactair F100 showing in various schedules this winter on the Swiss Zurich evening flight 18.15 arrival. Helvetic shown for the other two flights.

After KLM have changed the lunchtime E190 to the 737-700 from 2/7/12 more 737-900's are creeping into the schedule especially on KL1431/32
the last BHX departure to AMS. It seems Monday, Friday and Saturday are going see these quite often adding to the Tuesday KL1423/24.

As ever with KLM things are fluid and I have no doubt things will change.

No sign of easy bringing forward the BHX-BFS or increasing the GVA although baby only operated 2-3 Geneva's and all at the weekend.

Pete

[Andrew R]

Not impressed by the security at Birmingham airport. We where there on Sunday night (20/05/2012) and the queues were unbelievable. It took about 40 minutes just to get to through security. I also observed the 'security manager' (or whatever their correct term is) let a number of security personal go on a break which slowed things down further.

Some of the staff were also really rude, unhelpful and were basically shouting at passengers if they went through the body scanner too early or forgot to remove liquids from their baggage.

I also observed on an old, very frail women be harassed by security personnel because she set of the body scanner. She was asked by security personnel to lift her foot up which she struggled to do. If that was my mother or grandmother i would be appalled by it.

Some common sense from security personnel would go a long way. Some of those security personnel don't know how easy they have got it.

Never experienced anything like it.

[revo]

The flybe BHX-WAT services reduces to 5 weekly permanantly from 11th June, with tuesday and thursday dropped

Revo

[giblets]

To be fair to the security, the biggest problem is the idiot passengers!

Whenever I have been in the queue, there have been numerous ladies with more jewellery on than BA Baracas, and the number of people who seem to be totally dumbstruck when they get to the front of the queue and haven't removed a single item of metal work, go through the scanner, beeep! Keys, watch, belt, glasses, rings.
"you mean I have to take off off my metalwork too!?"

Would cut down the queues by half!

And fair play to the security officer at Brum who marched the Czech (who had nonchalantly walked past the queue to the front!) to the back.. "IN THIS COUNTRY WE DO SOMETHING CALLED QUEUEING!" :)

[LVL_CHG]

Agree with Giblets. People stand there queing moaning about how long its taking them, then decide to re-arrange there bags when get to the front of the que. That's before walking through the scanner with more cheap jewels on than Argos.

As for breaks. It's most likely a legal requirement and more of a rostering error than a "cant be arsed" attitude you've suggested.

[Andrew R]

I'm only going on what I saw and what I saw appeared to be terrible organisation on behalf of whoever runs security at BHX. It should not take 40 minutes to get through security at BHX on a Sunday night.

I travel quite a bit, at least every 2 weeks and this has been the worst I've experienced in a long time.

[rn750]

To be fair to BHX, they are not responsible for the security it is the Borders Agency.

Oh yes that's the one the Government cut back and then were surprised that huge queues formed at Border Control..

Its the same problem that LHR had last month, But of course 'extra' staff were produced to solve the LHR problem.

I wonder where they came from.... :ugh:

Adie

[chaps2011]

Border Agency and security are a different thing.

[Fairdealfrank]

Airport security is, AFAIK, the responsibility of the airport operator, obviously working to standards set down nationally, or even internationally.

Pax not knowing that they need to remove coats, laptops from cases, liquis in plastic bags, belts, coins, anything metallic, etc., will obviously slowd things down. Not every pax is a frequent flyer. Not all staff will have the required patience all the time.

Could a separate lane for "regulars" (other than for "fast track" cardholders) be a good idea?

[getonittt]

The EZY low yield was an excuse used initially at GLA also, but they have quite a developed network now, so I am not buying that

Just to going back to this again , agree with cabin crewe and others , that the term "not enough yield" is , in effect , cobblers and should be banned and airlines have to use another ( correct) phrase, such as "we are not competitive enough" , "we were not pricng our fares correctly " or " we don't think it's worth our time serving that airport " because saying not enough yield implies it's nothing to do with the airline ... so who sets the fares :*.

b.t.w , i don't think KLM will have BHX-AMS all to themselves this time next year...

[nigel osborne]

getonitt

You missed another big one, in relation to LCC and excuses/lack of base..

"We won't pay that much for our landing and handling fees" :ok:


Nigel

[rn750]

D'oh!! Apologies..
Adie

[Daza]

Nigel Osbourne wrote We won't pay that much for our landing and handling fees"
I completely agree Nigel landing fees are the issue. I'm amazed that FR haven't staged a strategic withdrawal trying to get BHX to reduce their fees as they have at EDI.:}
Instead FR have a "frozen" base at BHX. I wonder if EZY would just duplicate routes such as AGP, FAO, PMI etc. as many other airlines seem to have done historically at Birmingham. This lowers yields and eventually leads to one of the airlines withdrawing from the route or routes. Monarch are taking a chance and good luck to them.:ok:

[Norsemanuk]

Commencing 28th October 2012, SAS to start another direct service from BHX; to Stockholm ARL 6 days a week.
Days 1-5 Departure from ARL 11.15 and day 7 11.25
Return from BHX is 13.30 days 1 -5 and day 7 is 13.40.
Flight is expected to operate on a Boeing 737 NG.
Take a look at this link (In Norwegian)
Boarding.no : SAS med direktflyg till Birmingham och Stavanger (http://www.boarding.no/art.asp?id=50049)

:D

[Daza]

Great news about Stockholm. It would appear that full service airlines have renewed faith in Birmingham.! :D

[OltonPete]

I have been checking GDS and the SAS website for a while for this one amongst others as a potential route half expecting it to appear in one or the other before the official announcement.

It is not bookable as yet but hopefully not long but a fantastic route and I wish them well.

flybe - The 6th 175 was registered yesterday and should be for BHX but not due in service until 1/6/12 originally.

Pete

[GayFriendly]

Great news for BHX showing faith in it by a major carrier and a much better schedule than the last time they tried it on a DH8 I think? And it means another gap filled in in the BHX route map - be nice to get WAW, MAD and VIE back as well....MAD surely has to be a possibility on either IB/Air Nostrum CR9 or with Iberia Express?

[chinapattern]

The new route development guy (sorry, I forget his name) really has made an impact hasn't he? The amount of new routes and expansion on existing services in the past twelve months really has been phenomenal. I agree it would be nice to see MAD added, perhaps it's a route Monarch might consider at some point?

[Monty Gordo]

'HUNDREDS of passengers left Birmingham Airport without their luggage after a power cut caused chaos for travellers.'

From the Birmingham Post website today, which later reported an airport spokesman as saying that somewhere in the region of 1,000 hold items were involved.

The cause, a power failure...

i'm loathe to criticise the airport authority but if a relatively short power cut can have this effect, why is there no back-up power facility. Does this happen every time there is a power failure?

I feel for those involved, having to wait up to 48 hours for their luggage to arrive is neither pleasant nor is it likely to enamour those travelling with the ability of Bhx to cope with an emergency.

Am i being unfair??

[groundhogbhx]

Normally happens on summer Saturday mornings but doesn't usually affect all the belts, just delays a lot of flights as everything ends up on the oversize belt and queues go outside the terminal doors:ok:

[Monty Gordo]

Groundhogbhx, clearly the moral to this little tale is never fly out of Bhx on a summer Saturday morning if you want yo ensure your cases go out with you....

[Cloud1]

The second E175 for Flybe is in operation now - today operating 2x BHD, a HAM and STR whilst the other goes to and from DUS.

It does the same tomorrow and is showing as the two 175s being -JB and -JF

[GayFriendly]

[/QUOTE]

Normally happens on summer Saturday mornings but doesn't usually affect all the belts, just delays a lot of flights as everything ends up on the oversize belt and queues go outside the terminal doorshttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif


Do all the long haul airlines waiting in the wings for the runway extension to open know about this??! That will surely convince them that BHX is the place to fly into over LHR ;)



The new route development guy (sorry, I forget his name) really has made an impact hasn't he?


Agreed there does seem to be a more positive mood at BHX for route development, encouragingly by both full service and lower cost carriers in both destinations and frequencies but this has to be tempered by the fact that BHX has recently lost LYS and GOT and from Sept it looks like PRG and LIS will also go. Add those to a few gaps in major cities/hubs (MAD, WAW, HEL - great for Far East connections) and seasonal leisure destinations (suggestions could be PSA, NAP, ATH, OPO, BOD, MRS?) still unserved, as well as stagnation in long haul route development there is still a way to go but IMO at least BHX does seem to have (at last) got the right man in the job of getting airlines to buy into the airports potential

[chinapattern]

Would be good to see TAP on the LIS route. If bmbibaby did OK with just O&D then I should imagine TP should do fine with the connections they offer plus any back up from *Alliance. How is their MAN route performing? Is it a daily service now?

[Monty Gordo]

Chinapattern: Agree. There is plenty of emphasis on onward flights through European hubs with legacy carriers, but little to the west. I sought a little help recently in travel into Brazil, the upshot being that it was financially more advantageous to start with National Express to Heathrow to link up with Tap for Lisbon and then Rio. Direct Bhx - Lis with Tap would make life a lot easier for those on business in Brazil. I believe it would work.

Remember, the Brazilian economy is now bigger than the UK....

[GayFriendly]

One would hope that both IB and TP are very high (if not at the top) of Mr New Route Development guys list for BHX. My cousin flew BHX-LIS almost weekly when WW started it and said that flights were nearly always full (although we have no idea what fares people were paying and it was dropped pretty sharpish in their city route cull in 2010). As chinapattern says, with some connecting traffic thrown in, it could work for TP.

I wonder how IB are doing from GLA, I see that it is only twice weekly (Tu/Th) so must be relying on a lot of connecting traffic as can't see a lot of bsuiness travellers being attracted by that schedule? Surely BHX could manage a four/five times a week rotation?

IB and TP are daily at MAN (for the summer only in IB case), I recently flew IB MAN-MAD, both flights were full on a CRK. I agree that there is definately potential for both carriers and any deal sealed on these would be a huge boost for BHX and its already healthy list of legacy carriers as well as opening up South America, which for now requires slight back tracking via AMS, CDG, ZRH or FRA.

[chinapattern]

People on other forums have cited Iberia's inclusion in oneworld as the main reason they don't serve BHX, but there aren't many airlines in that alliance who would realistically fly here anyway; only Iberia, Finnair and perhaps AA.

[ATNotts]

People on other forums have cited Iberia's inclusion in oneworld as the main reason they don't serve BHX

Since BA doesn't operate a feeder from BHX to LHR, and therefore loses a chunk of what could be their LHR business to the likes of LH, AF, KL, LX etc I would have thought this would be a reson why IB should serve MAD from BHX, thus bringing revenue into IAG that is currently going elsewhere - or have I lost the plot on this one?

[Cyrano]

Since BA doesn't operate a feeder from BHX to LHR, and therefore loses a chunk of what could be their LHR business to the likes of LH, AF, KL, LX etc I would have thought this would be a reson why IB should serve MAD from BHX, thus bringing revenue into IAG that is currently going elsewhere - or have I lost the plot on this one?

Not at all, I agree entirely with you.

The alternative argument is "we have a captive market - they'll all go to LHR anyway, so no need to cannibalise our own market." And there are at least two fallacies in that last sentence... ;)

[chaps2011]

This all comes back to BHX being too close to LHR as they are trying to protect
the south midlands for LHR not BHX and that is why I think the HS2 will
actually suck people south rather than north.

Ian

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "Since BA doesn't operate a feeder from BHX to LHR, and therefore loses a chunk of what could be their LHR business to the likes of LH, AF, KL, LX etc I would have thought this would be a reson why IB should serve MAD from BHX, thus bringing revenue into IAG that is currently going elsewhere - or have I lost the plot on this one?"

IIRC LHR-BHX was a BD route which ended sometime in the late 1980s/1990s. Is this correct?

BHX is just one of a number of airports that needs a link to LHR for exactly the reasons you mention, ATNotts.

Unfortunately, with the lack of available slots at LHR and the price of them, combined with high landing charges and APD, it ain't going to happen.

What is needed are more direct flights out of BHX, GLA, MAN and the rest, but only EK appears to be able to make money doing this.

[ATNotts]

BHX is just one of a number of airports that needs a link to LHR for exactly the reasons you mention

I don't agree that BHX need a domestic flight to LHR. If you want to get to london, you use the train. If you want to go further afield you fly to via a European hub. Most of them are immeasurably a better passenger experience (even Frankfurt!) than LHR.

If BA were interested in Midlander's business then they would consider operating from the Midlands directly to European, and a handful of worldwide destinations - but given their decision to hand the BHX network to FlyBe they clearly ain't! Same can be said for Manchester!

we have a captive market - they'll all go to LHR anyway

If BA/IAG think this then they are living in la-la land. Star Alliance and Skyteam shifting so many thousands of passengers via continental hubs lays that bare to the nonsense it is.

[GayFriendly]

Splitting hairs I suppose it could be argued that BA do still operate 'virtually' from BHX as a codeshare on BE flights to DUS, HAM, STR and MXP. All of these are bookable on the BA website, which are then ticketed by BA and issued with a BA flight number - although I wonder how many people actually do book on ba.com for a flight from BHX to HAM that is operated by BE?

So why not also add a BA flight number to an IB BHX-MAD? IB flights from MAN and GLA have BA codeshares on them - you would think BA would rather route MAD bound pax from these airports via their flights to LHR but they are obviously happy to allow IB to take a share of these pax. With the amount of South and Central American connections at MAD and a relatively healthy potential for O&D traffic (as well as BA's thoughts to make MAD a secondary hub for it in Europe) you would have though BA would like a slice of the pie at BHX on this a route. ATNotts is therefore absolutely right.

[OltonPete]

Madrid

I agree with ATNotts although BA will know exactly how many pax originate from the Midlands and they will know the potential O & D and transit market from published data but they would be crazy to think they have a captive market.

BMI Baby proved that there was a market between BHX-MAD pre-recession but unfortunately not a profitable one, although this should not rule it out in the future. The obvious one when more 175's are available is a flybe aircraft with a BA/IB code-share

Cloud1 - The second 175 has only been in service two days and it will be on its 16th sector shortly!!!!! Should start Stuttgart and Hamburg tomorrow for a week.

Aer Lingus

Winter changes - the Thursday and Friday 4th Dublin of the day has gone but Saturday is now three flights up one and Sunday four up one.

[AMM626]

Birmingham airport plans to move terminal buildings

Birmingham airport’s boss last week unveiled plans to relocate its terminal buildings to strengthen connections with the planned High Speed 2 (HS2) rail network.


Speaking at NCE’s Airport Design and Engineering conference in London, operator Birmingham Airport’s chief executive Paul Kehoe said he wanted to embark on a consultation about moving the passenger terminals, though not the runway, closer to the Birmingham International station.

“This could result in moving the airport 1km eastwards,” Kehoe told delegates. “It may sound daft but it has to happen.”

He explained that the runway and airside operations would remain where they are today while airport passenger handling operations - such as check-in, baggage handling and security - would move.

This would have the benefit of freeing up space so more passengers and flights could be handled said Kehoe.

Current plans

Current plans for High Speed 2 (HS2), confirmed by transport secretary Justine Greening in January, involve building a new Birmingham Interchange station that would connect HS2 passengers to the airport and the National Exhibition Centre via a people mover (NCE 26 January).

These plans reveal that scheme promoter High Speed Two Ltd (HS2 Ltd) considered moving the new station closer to the airport but ruled it out because of the “very significant knock-on effects” it would have to the local community.

Kehoe subsequently told NCE that proposals to move the terminal closer to the station would be less contentious although environmental impact assessments would be carried out for the new station and new terminus, he said.

“This is an opportunity we want to exploit,” added Kehoe. “We’re keen to talk to consultants about how we would plan the move.”

The airport’s existing facilities have recently undergone a major upgrade, including construction of a new £45M pier to handle international traffic that was completed in 2009 (NCE 10 September 2009).

Plans could also include creating an enterprise zone around the airport and station said Kehoe. Any development around the new station would be led by Solihull Council, not HS2 Ltd, according to an HS2 Ltd spokesman.

The operator has also begun a £33M runway extension project - due for completion in 2014. This, with the new pier will allow it to handle larger aircraft .


Paste the title at the top into Google for a link to the article.

[nigel osborne]

AMM 626

I think what he means is that their will be facilities by the new railway station to check in and process your luggage for people arriving by train or bus there..Not that drastic, doesn't this happen similarly at a number of rail stations in London already for Heathrow ?

It could be a pipe dream anyway the HS2 could be scrapped after recent independent studies set up by the Govt said it wasnt financially viable,we shall see.

[Fairdealfrank]

The Elmdon managers may need to time this one very carefully...as Nigel says the HST could be scrapped. It could be another twenty-year on-off vital transport infrastructure saga that allegedly upsets different groups of voters at different times.

Ring any bells?

They shouldn't be in too much of a hurry to move the BHX terminal. HST1 started off from a huge terminal at London-Waterloo, with trains departing in a southwestly direction for a destination to the south east of London.

So millions was spent on a flyover for a chord linking the south west mainline to the existing London-Victoria mainline. A Eurostar terminal at Victoria would have been easier. That infrastructure now lies empty and unused.

Then the Eurostar moved to London-St Pancras, with trains departing in a northerly direction for a destination to the south east of London, so a new track had to be built via Stratford.

An excellent location for an HST interchange one might think, and so it should be, but the numpties built "Stratford International" a mile away from the existing Stratford regional interchange station.

And so it will be with the HS2 on existing plans. Rather than using the main Birmingham-New street station, one of the countries biggest interchanges, the HST will terminate at Curzon Street. The BHX HS2 station will also be separate from the existing BHX station. It's Stratford all over again.

So the headline gain of the HST saving 15 minutes on a trip to London is more than lost because of the extra time taken to access the HST from existing railway hubs. Crazy nonsense, isn't it! It's a serious lack of "joined-up" thinking.

Will anyone see the stupidity of this, and change the routing? Shouldn't the new railway come past the already existing airport terminal? Will it ever get built? if so will we still be alive?

The rest of the article was quite illuminating. It would be fantastic if BHX could follow the MAN example (once the runway extension is complete) and attract more long haul routes. The larger UK airports (apart from LHR and LGW) have great potential for development and have plenty of capacity.

Regretably, over the years, policy-makers have allowed KL and EK to syphon off traffic via their hubs and other carriers appear not to be able to make money on direct flights as a result.

[OltonPete]

SAS Stockholm now bookable daily except Saturday.

Monday-Friaday SK2553/4 in at 12.50 out 13.30

Sunday SK2553/4 in 13.00 out 13.40

Aircraft 737 series - first flight showing 29/10 as a 738 but 73W's
and 736's are showing as well on various dates.

Great news although I suppose we should wait for the press release
as things have disappeared from timetables before the official announcement
has seen the light of day.

[ATNotts]

the HST will terminate at Curzon Street

What you may not realise is that Curzon Street used to be the mainline station linking Euston with Birmingham, and the extremely grand facade remains in existence. It really wouldn't take too much of a leap of faith (or money) to link the Birmingham terminus of HS2 to the heart of the city, and much as the Olympics has done for East London, would also do much to regenerate a tired area close to the City centre.

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "What you may not realise is that Curzon Street used to be the mainline station linking Euston with Birmingham, and the extremely grand facade remains in existence. It really wouldn't take too much of a leap of faith (or money) to link the Birmingham terminus of HS2 to the heart of the city, and much as the Olympics has done for East London, would also do much to regenerate a tired area close to the City centre."

Good point about Curzon Street, but links to the heart of the city, no matter how convenient and frequent, still add on to the journey time for those not travelling from central Birmingham. This will wipe out the 15 minute time saving on a journey to London, so why pay the extra?

It's hardly a wise use of £32bn of public money just to save 15 minutes anyway, but if 15 minutes is not even being saved for most potential pax.....

[Monty Gordo]

Curzon Street is extremely close to the existing New Street Station, far closer than any of the existing mainline rail stations in London are to each other.

But to add to the historic aspect raised by ATNotts, Curzon Street, a gloriously attractive Grade 1 Listed building is the oldest surviving rail terminus in the world and as such would have to feature in any HS2 plan for the city.

An integrated transport plan for the city should be able to link it both to New Street, Moor Street (Chiltern Railways) and the city centre.

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "Curzon Street is extremely close to the existing New Street Station, far closer than any of the existing mainline rail stations in London are to each other.

But to add to the historic aspect raised by ATNotts, Curzon Street, a gloriously attractive Grade 1 Listed building is the oldest surviving rail terminus in the world and as such would have to feature in any HS2 plan for the city.

An integrated transport plan for the city should be able to link it both to New Street, Moor Street (Chiltern Railways) and the city centre."

OK, admit defeat on Curzon Street, and certainly would want to see it used as a station, but still have to question the whole viability of HS2 as it is presently constituted.

That said, still believe that the bosses at Elmdon should not be too much of a hurry to shift the terminal. However, it is good to see long term planning and some thinking "outside the box" on their part!

[Manchester Kurt]

Quote: "What you may not realise is that Curzon Street used to be the mainline station linking Euston with Birmingham, and the extremely grand facade remains in existence. It really wouldn't take too much of a leap of faith (or money) to link the Birmingham terminus of HS2 to the heart of the city, and much as the Olympics has done for East London, would also do much to regenerate a tired area close to the City centre."

Good point about Curzon Street, but links to the heart of the city, no matter how convenient and frequent, still add on to the journey time for those not travelling from central Birmingham. This will wipe out the 15 minute time saving on a journey to London, so why pay the extra?

It's hardly a wise use of £32bn of public money just to save 15 minutes anyway, but if 15 minutes is not even being saved for most potential pax.....

But HS2 is not about shaving time of train journeys, it is about adding additional capacity that will be required on the WCML before the end of the 2020s.

If you are going to build a new train line a long distance it may as well be fast.

[McGoonagall]

Don't forget HS2 was adopted as a sop to the LibDems to help secure a working majority coalition government. Chinese whispers abound regarding the third Heathrow runway being back on the cards despite all of the bluster from Boris. Regarding Curzon Street being a terminus for the initial stage of HS2 any approach from the south or south east would have to be tunneled or elevated as would any onward extension. I can not think of a worse suggestion for a Birmingham terminus with the exception of New St. New St is hampered by being too central and has restricted access to the station consisting of two tunnels at both ends. Capacity has been reached for years and delays are a way of life.

If, and it is a big if, HS2 goes ahead then another terminus site will have to be found and a mass transit system put into place to connect BHX and New St. East of the city centre has the best locations and motorway access from all directions and would be closer to BHX. The airport does not need another station it has one connected to the national rail system with three fast trains an hour taking about 75 minutes to London. As for the WCML being at full capacity in 2020, I would suggest that is just scaremongering by the proponents of HS2. I have driven trains over the WCML for about 15 years now and the capacity issues are more down to bully boy tactics by Beardies bunch over timetabling, rather than actual capacity issues.

[Manchester Kurt]

Other than the Tories were the first of the three main parties to sort HSR and not the lib dems and had it in their manifesto.

The Brum outskirts station will be at BHX and by the motorway, and no one seriously does not think that there will soon - 2026 being the estimate - be need for additional track capacity on the WCML. The opponents of HS2 don't argue the extra capacity will not be required rather that quieter stops should lose their services.

Of choose the roe into Brum, without the tunnels or elevated sections has now (some months ago) been published by HS2/DfT.

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "Curzon Street is extremely close to the existing New Street Station, far closer than any of the existing mainline rail stations in London are to each other."

Even if Curzon Street is as close as a 5 minute walk, would pax (possibly carrying baggage) connecting from other places in the conurbation via New Street be bothered to do it, and have to pay the HS2 supplement for the priveledge)? With a 5 minute walk, the 15 minute time saving becomes 10 minutes, is it really worth it? People want convenience and lack of hassle.

Quote: "But HS2 is not about shaving time of train journeys, it is about adding additional capacity that will be required on the WCML before the end of the 2020s."

Yes it is! that's exactly what it's about.

Quote: "Other than the Tories were the first of the three main parties to sort HSR and not the lib dems and had it in their manifesto."

Whether it's a Conservative or a Libdem vanity project is a moot point. It's also got the fingerprints of Labour's Andrew Adonis all over it. They're all too keen to waste public money while cutting vital services and attacking public servants.

There are many rival schemes from railway professionals for improving capacity: more bypasses, more graded junctions, removal of bottlenecks, duplication of 2-track sections to better segregate fast and slow trains, electrification of branches to eliminate slower diesels (e.g. North wales line, Blackpool, Preston to Liverpool/Manchester), improvement of the New Street bottleneck (as is being done at Reading at present), etc..

These can be done incrementally and for a lot less than £32bn.

[McGoonagall]

Of choose the roe into Brum, without the tunnels or elevated sections has now (some months ago) been published by HS2/DfT. Just had a good look at the official plans and there are quite a few elevated sections in to Brum.

There are many rival schemes from railway professionals for improving capacity: more bypasses, more graded junctions, removal of bottlenecks, duplication of 2-track sections to better segregate fast and slow trains, electrification of branches to eliminate slower diesels (e.g. North wales line, Blackpool, Preston to Liverpool/Manchester), improvement of the New Street bottleneck (it's being done at Reading at present), etc..

These can be done incrementally and for a lot less than £32bn. Thank Christ for pragmatism over dreamers vanity projects.

[nigel osborne]

Fairdealfrank.

The most recent drawings in the Birmingham Mail show a large covered walkway all the way from Curzon Street linking up with either the Bull Ring or New Street Station,and supposedly moving walkways.

Not sure how it would fit having a quick look at the angles between etc, but Im no architect so what do I know ?

The cost too !

Nigel

[Manchester Kurt]

Fairdealfrank - show me the HS2 or DfT documents that big up the time savings as the reason for the project.

You seem to be confusing journos who have dumbed down the project and focused on the speed and are ignoring what those involved in the project are saying.

For once this country is looking ahead, the capacity issue that everyone agrees is coming (other than you Fairdealfrank - even the anti's do not argue that case) and plans are put in place to avoid the WCML running out of capacity.

Reports have been done by Network Rail, a shed loads of consultants, the DfT, HS2 and all come back showing the most effective way to resolve those capacity issues is new tracks.

So, if you build new tracks do you build them at high or low speed if the price is very similar.

Anyway, I await with interest these reports from the DfT or HS2 showing that this is all about speed and not capacity, I may have quite some wait though.


Edit - the DfT economic case for HS2...

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/hs2-economic-case-appraisal-update/hs2-economic-case-appraisal-update.pdf

Almost all of what is based on extra capacity to avoid the problems that are coming down the line in the next 20 odd years if nothing is done.

[nigel osborne]

Re Rail capsacity.

I think that the extra capacity issue is just as important if not more so than the extra speed.

Our current rail lines are reaching capacity and seems the only way to increase that is to take high speed trains off the current ones and put local trains on them. At least the HS2 lines would allow that.

Anyway we are all getting way off aviation, so I won't comment further.

Nigel

[BHX5DME]

Getting back to aircraft the inaugural Lufthansa Berlin has just arrived (D-AIBE A319)and is taking off soon with OltonPete on board !

BHX5DME

[Guest 112233]

You can see the progress of the flight on Fightradar24.com

CAT III

[chaps2011]

If I reported every drip at my place of work I wouldn`t get any work done


Ian

[Daza]

It looks as if the new SAS ARN service from BHX reduces to five weekly (daily ex Tue and Sat.) for Dec 2012, Jan and Feb 2013. Six weekly returns on 26th Feb. Discovered this while trying to book a pre-Christmas break.
Daza

[OltonPete]

Back from Berlin, went out on the first service Sunday 3rd June, as mentioned by Ian a few posts back.

I assume the fact it was a late Sunday evening, a UK bank holiday weekend and it was not going to the much heralded new Berlin airport was the reason why the first indication that it was the first service was at 37000ft over Germany during the first officers update of the progress of the flight?

No business pax outbound or inbound tonight but a very different make-up to each flight. Outbound Sunday the load was between 80-90 and most seem to be UK leisure pax and of course there was nothing too shocking about that.

Tonight was only third flight and was there was about 60 passengers but a much different make-up. There were a lot of Germans in suits and a lot of German speakers full-stop.

One source shows the A319 as 138 seats, which I must admit sounded a lot to fill for a BHX-Berlin flight on a daily basis but you never know.

What was interesting was the ultra-slimline racaro seat Lufthansa now use giving a lot of legroom for an aircraft the size of an A319 with 138 seats.

I would imagine very good for most LH missions but anything longer than three hours might affect your back even with the leather.

Pete

[crewmeal]

When Maersk operated the daily flight, it was mainly economy passengers that filled the 737. Many times we used to carry over 100 down the back with the curtain divider at row 2.

[Jonnyf]

BBC News - Birmingham Airport passenger numbers increase (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-18338304)

Seems things are on the up from Birmingham :ok:

Stockholm now has a press release on the website.

[Daza]

Here is the official BHX press release.
SAS Announce New Route to Stockholm from Birmingham Airport - Birmingham Airport (http://www.birminghamairport.co.uk/meta/news/2012/06/sas-announce-new-route-to-stockholm-from-birmingham-airport.aspx)

Good news LH Hamburg, LH Berlin and now SAS Stockholm! Great news for legacy and low fares carriers at Birmingham this year.:)

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: “The airport does not need another station it has one connected to the national rail system with three fast trains an hour taking about 75 minutes to London. As for the WCML being at full capacity in 2020, I would suggest that is just scaremongering by the proponents of HS2. I have driven trains over the WCML for about 15 years now and the capacity issues are more down to bully boy tactics by Beardies bunch over timetabling, rather than actual capacity issues.”

Interesting point McGoonagall!

Quote: “You seem to be confusing journos who have dumbed down the project and focused on the speed and are ignoring what those involved in the project are saying.

For once this country is looking ahead, the capacity issue that everyone agrees is coming (other than you Fairdealfrank - even the anti's do not argue that case) and plans are put in place to avoid the WCML running out of capacity.”

Not so, Manchester Kurt, the truth is that the HS2 was hastily cobbled together just before the 2010 election, so it's not the journos who dumbed it down! Politicians saw another band wagon rolling and as usual, jumped on it.

Have no objections to the principle of high speed rail, so please do not imply this. The objections are to the sloppy way it’s been put together and the way it has alienated millions. It’s lack of connectivity with existing transport interchanges is probably the best way to ensure it’s a white elephant.

Common sense dictates that they need to take the time to come up with a sensible scheme that links into and compliments existing rail, road and air options and so extends choice. It is, after all, an expensive and long term project, so use the money wisely and do not settle for second best.

[ZULUBOY]

Pete,

Were you on the Tuesday evening flight? My in-laws were on that and they reckon there were only a handful of empty seats. They were down the front though so perhaps couldn't see.

They really liked the legroom

[OltonPete]

ZULUBOY

I was on the Tuesday evening inbound to BHX in row 12, it was around here that most the passengers were seated. Business was empty and the last seven rows looked to have only a few pax as well.

I did a rough head-count at the gate a few times and I never got to more than 60 and everyone had a seat in what I can only describe as a compact area.

I won't go into detail of how Tegal works but I would say that the BBI delay has given them a few headaches to deal with but it made BHX look super efficient, especially when we landed the airbridge was ready and we walked virtually straight through immigration plus the "e-gates" were working as well.

With hand-luggage only we were waiting for our lift at the railway station within 15 minutes of touching down.

Pete

[justplanecrazy84]

MAN will run out of fuel today! Could BHX see some diversions??

[chinapattern]

Any word on what Olympic traffic BHX might be seeing? Are we still getting those United charters?

[nigel osborne]

China pattern,

They were only rumours about the United flights, and you would expect them to use "The Olympic Gateway " airports down south.

Perhaps the best pointer so far was the story yesterday in the papers that many of the Olympic Atheletes will arrive in the UK in dribs and drabs on existing scheduled flights.

However will fly back mainly from Gatwick on chartered planes all together.

Therefore anything we pick up will be a real bonus at BHX..

As we are masters of the long park ups with FR Air Finland etc hopefully BHX can pull in that type of traffic.

Nigel

[ssflyer]

Slightly off topic but as you mentioned FR-What has happened to their forum?

[FQTLSteve]

Noticed some comments elsewhere referring to bmi A320 G-MIDX. Well I was on it yesterday on LH956, it's still in Star livery but has bmi's new brown leather seats! Also the fixed business class has been removed. Nice fresh interior, but the crew were very agitated. I spoke to cabin manager and she said they didn't know how long they would continue to fly for LH, and that they weren't being given any info by IAG/BA, some have been offered roles at LHR.

The in flight mag was May 2012! Full Star/LH/bmi flight announcements etc. you'd think they were still within that group.

Would I be right in thinking that whilst flying for LH they can't do so with re-painted BA a/c?

[BHX2FRA]

G-MIDX has only recently been used daily on the FRA route - either from MAN or BHX. G-MIDS was the regular plane from BHX until it went into EMA for the change to BA colours on 26 May. My understanding is that BD were/are in contract with LH for a two year period starting end March 2011 - although this could have been changed as part of the IAG deal. The flights from MAN have generally been in bmi colours since the contract started. Lufthansa web site shows bmi as operator of three of the four daily flights for the winter 11/12`timetable (i.e. as now).

[GayFriendly]

LH online timetable shows BHX-FRA 3 x daily operated BD flights until 30/3/13 plus 1 x daily LH operated: from 1/4/13 it reverts to an all LH operation 4 x daily using a combination of 735/319 equipment

This would substantiate the comment made about this being a 2 year contract but of course this could all now change with the IAG deal having gone through, you would have though LH being so keen to get rid of BD at any price they would want to sever all links with the airline.

[Off Stand]

BHX2FRA, G-MIDS is still in Star Alliance colours, none of the A320's will be repainted until the A319's are done.

[BHX2FRA]

Whilst LH might not like IAG operating the BHX-FRA flights for the rest of the contracted period it does make commercial sense for both parties.

Presumably bmi had no need for the A320s themselves when they entered into the contract so we can presume IAG have no need for them now - let them continue to earn money oservicing the contract (assuming its a profit making contract!).

If LH pride encouraged them to seek to end the contract it would cost them money. They lost plenty of book money on the sale of bmi to IAG, why would they want to lose actual cash by terminating the contract early (presumably with penalties).

The A320 also offers greater capacity than the aircraft planned to replace them next April.

Perhaps G-MIDX will remain on this route and retain its Star Alliance livery until the end of the contract.

Off Stand - you may be correct about G-MIDS's livery. I was basing my comments on Jethros Fleet Listings which indicated a repaint at EMA on 26 May and G-MIDS flew in to EMA on that day.

[GayFriendly]

Off Stand

So there is a chance then that a BA liveried aircraft could fly BHX-FRA if LH fulfill their contract with BD on this route until 2013? Unless it's going to take that long to repaint all the 319's? How very odd! I think we will see BHX-FRA going back to all LH operations sooner rather than later.

Out of interest, the BD crew operating BHX-FRA are LHR based? I assume they have to stay in BHX when doing these flights? Does anyone know how these flights are rostered?

[BHX2FRA]

GayFriendly - for the summer schedule which includes a long layover in FRA in the morning, one crew operated the first flight in and out. A second crew then operates the second and third returns (afternoon and evening). I have been on two lengthy delayed afternoon returns from FRA. The first time a replacement crew was waiting in BHX to fly the third return. The second time the crew had to work the extra three hours.

The night time flight ban at FRA now causes issues. If the plane cannot get out of FRA by 2300 it is stranded there - last week a late running flight diverted into Cologne to avoid this issue.

[GayFriendly]

Thanks for the info BHX2FRA. I have always been fascinated by the intricacies of crew rostering ever since my days as crew working for BA - when we would nightstop in MAN after doing only three short sectors but do ATH (from LGW) as a very long there and back.....I often see KL and LH crew at BHX at all hours of the day so the same kind of night stopping on short haul must still happen?

[fjencl]

BD have a small based amount of cabin crew at BHX, this has been the way since the start of the contract last year to run the 3 times a day service from BHX - FRA.

However as some of the BD cabin crew have moved onto pastures green, BD have to
bring in staff from LHR and MAN to man the flights, and yes they have to stay in hotels and taxi back and forth from there respective bases.

Hope this helps.

[Daza]

It would appear that Lufthansa are pleased with forward bookings for their new Birmingham Berlin service. Lufthansa have commenced two new routes from Birmingham this Summer, Hamburg 12 times a week and daily service to Berlin. Read more on the Birmingham Post link below. :ok:
New Berlin service brings bookings boost - Latest News - News - Birmingham Post (http://www.birminghampost.net/news/newsaggregator/2012/06/08/new-berlin-service-brings-bookings-boost-65233-31137750/#ixzz1xFBsxP1z)
Daza

[Fairdealfrank]

Excellent, just what is needed!

[FQTLSteve]

GayFriendly, I do not know the answer to the question of where the bmi crew are based for the FRA ops, imagine it's similar at MAN? However the crew on my outbound flight on 2nd June all had Scottish accents, and when leaving I commented about bmi, and they seemed a bit depressed about the situation. As I stated when returning I spoke to the cabin manager, she said she didn't want to move to LHR as she lived in Birmingham! BTW this crew was all English, and on both flights there is a German speaking crew member. I would be surprised if LH would allow them to use a/c with BA livery, so I think that they would likely to be STAR or bmi c/s. However this is only my opinion and I don't have any inside info.

[FQTLSteve]

Forgot to put in previous posting. At BHX 6 June a Strategic A320 and a JT 737-800 or 700 not quite sure. I've never heard of either carrier or know why they were there etc anyone know?

[OltonPete]

FQTLSteve

Strategic Airlines are the Olympic Holidays flights, which last year was a based Skywings A320 operating between 6 and 13 flights a week - when it felt like it.

This year Olympic Holidays scaled back its BHX operation as I would imagine repeat bookings after last year would have been on the low side :(

The aircraft are away based (MAN - RHO - BHX - RHO - MAN) operating just four flights a week and there is a weekly Aegean from Larnaca on a Saturday.

The Jet Time was a one-off charter to and from Denmark (CPH or BLL), just one of many in what was an excellent week at BHX.

Pete

[FQTLSteve]

Thanks OltonPete for that info. Can you shed any light on the bmi ops for LH as per my previous posting?

[BHX2FRA]

Tonight's 1825 departure to Frankfurt didn't leave until 2152 despite the gate closing around the scheduled departure time. As I indicated in an earlier post this is now flying into Cologne due to the night time flight ban at Frankfurt.

Anyone aware of the reason for the delay?

[Norsemanuk]

On the Lufthansa flight from DUS(LH 3446)this afternoon(arrived 14.50), 3 Germania FA's occupied the entire business class section (2 + 1 rows) of the CRJ 700.
Guess they were going to work the Germania ( D-AHIM) A 319 service to Milan on behalf of Monarch?

[OltonPete]

FQTLSteve

Re the Lufthansa Frankfurt I have no idea but I will be very surprised if it goes beyond the summer schedule. I suppose it depends on any get-out clauses in the contract, as others have said Summer 13 shows LH again.

BHX2FRA - No idea of the reason for the delay

Norsemanuk - almost certainly and the Monarch sub-charter story is on-going as an Air Via A320 is now positioning in for the morning Alicante.

The Air Italy 762 also operated today's Arrecife with the Germania operating the Milan which is usually the same aircraft

BMI Baby :(

Amsterdam ended with the first cancelled and the second late. Belfast City and Knock also ended.

Aer Lingus Regional Knock is on departures for the morning.

KLM have added some capacity but not on the most important flight, the first out from BHX and last back. However the schedules show a lot more 739's on the last out KL1432 and on the KL1423/4 at times. Also from 2/7/12 the E190 changes to the 737-700.

Air France are showing A319's on the morning and afternoon service for the next three days and again this might be do with the lack of seats from the Midlands due to what has happened with Baby.

Pete

[Norsemanuk]

I can second OltonPete's comments ( post 1130),when everything functions you can catch a train at the International Station within 15 minutes(With cabin baggage/delivery at aircraft).
Yesterday at 14.50 hours everything went exceptionally well.E gates working and it was plain sailing thereafter.:O
On BBC Radio WM this morning there was a programme about BHX.Apparently they reported delays of 50 minutes going through UK Border Control yesterday at lunchtime??.(Maximum wait of 25 minutes being the target).According to industry experts this could get worse due to staff cutbacks and the regions will suffer as LHR will get priority.
On to another related subject,could somebody please explain why the escalator down to UK Border Control always seems to be out of action !:ugh:

[GayFriendly]

Norsemanuk

The escalators are turned off when there is a big build up of pax in UK Border Control for obvious H&S reasons. Not sure who actually switches them off but they quite often don't get switched on again once the queues have disappeared which is why they never seem to be in action.....

[Norsemanuk]

GayFriendly
Thanks for swift reply.
I cannot remember these escalators ever working.(Maybe they did work back in the 90's?)
What's the idea of having them in the first place?? if they cannot be used for the purpose they were installed!
Other European airports operate escalators succesfully.

[Invicta DC4]

Does anyone have any info on the long delay on yesterday's outbound Newark flight?

Only asking because a work colleague was on it and would have missed his connection at Newark.

[Off Stand]

There was an electrical fault with the fuel system (heard that it could have been related to the fuel pumps) that was the problem. The a/c was serviceable, but with a reduced pax load. I believe many (up to 100) pax were over nighted at LHR and left on the first flight this morning.

[ATNotts]

Other European airports operate escalators succesfully

Other UK airports don't have the daft immigration controls that the UK does (for EEA residents) and since so many arrivals at other European airports are travelling within the Schengen area there are fewer reasons for queues at borders.

HMG forms policy based upon the views of the Daily Mail, The Express and The Sun and as such the best course of action is probably to leave escaltors turned off - permanantly!

[TCX69]

Tonight's 1825 departure to Frankfurt didn't leave until 2152 despite the gate closing around the scheduled departure time. As I indicated in an earlier post this is now flying into Cologne due to the night time flight ban at Frankfurt.

Anyone aware of the reason for the delay?


From our system:

LH957 BHX-FRA delayed 3:30hrs due high loader broken at side of aircraft, operated to CGN due FRA closure

LH958 FRA-BHX cancelled

[revo]

KLM are adding a 6th daily service from 3rd September:

A 1805 KL1433 1234567
D 1900 KL1434 1234567

Using Fokker 70

Revo

[Suzeman]

What's the idea of having them in the first place?? if they cannot be used for the purpose they were installed!

Not familiar with the area but perhaps it was designed and opened in the days not many years ago when coming into the country was a breeze for UK citizens and queues didn't exist?

Suzeman

[TSR2]

What's the idea of having them in the first place?? if they cannot be used for the purpose they were installed!


I would imagine they are switched off for energy conservation.

[nigel osborne]

TCX69

Re cancelled Frankfurt, surely LH have a plane sitting around at FRA they could use :eek::bored:

Nigel

[groundhogbhx]

Not that easy, the flights are under BD flight numbers not LH so you can't just do an equipment change. There would also be the problem of getting the LH aircraft back where it should be with a crew that are in hours because I doubt the LH crew would be able to operate the first departure.

It is the same if an AF or BE a/c goes tech on the CDG. The other can't operate due to having to file for airport slots under different flight numbers/times, a/c in the wrong place, crew hours etc when the 'new' flight goes to the back of the atc slot queue.

[TCX69]

Not that easy, the flights are under BD flight numbers not LH

LH959...? BD flight number is code-share only & not used operationally.

[rn750]

Link shamelessly copied from another forum.. Interesting though..

Home :: Birmingham Airport (http://www.balancedaviationdebate.com/)

Adie

[groundhogbhx]

What ever you say TCX, you obviously work for Servisair Ops and know which company prepares which bit of paperwork for these flights.

[BHX2FRA]

Not that easy, the flights are under BD flight numbers not LH LH959...?


BD flight number is code-share only & not used operationally.


Flightstats.com shows the flight under BD

e.g. BD959 codeshared as LH959, BD3327, US5855, and UA8808.

[TCX69]

BD959 codeshared as LH959, BD3327, US5855, and UA8808

It is actually LH959 codeshared as BD3327. How can a bmi flight be codeshared with another bmi flight?

Callsign for these flights is Lufthansa, flight paperwork is DLH.

These flights are Lufthansa flights operated by bmi.

[TCX69]

FRA Arrivals Webpage:


bmi Internal Timetable:

[revo]

Plus the callsigns operate as "Lufthansa"

With ATC having DLH codes

Revo

[groundhogbhx]

On flight plans filed from Donnington Hall!!!!

[TCX69]

On flight plans filed from Donnington Hall!!!!

Obviously, as it's a bmi operated flight & that is bmi's head office!

[OltonPete]

Source: CAA

May 2012 790626, rolling year down 0.3% at 8621419

Movements up 3% 7907

Movements have not been up very often in the last few years.

A scan through the routes show some very scary figures, Dubai only just made 30000 down 16-17%.

Pete

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "Link shamelessly copied from another forum.. Interesting though..

Home :: Birmingham Airport (http://www.balancedaviationdebate.com/)

Adie "


All true, but it's long haul carriers (other than EK of course!) that need to be convinced, not just potential pax.

[GayFriendly]

A scan through the routes show some very scary figures, Dubai only just made 30000 down 16-17%.

With figures like that EK will also need to be convinced to fly off the runway extension if that kind of rot continues :uhoh: Good to see pax up overall in May, I will be adding to these figures in both July and August on the LH to TXL, not a lot I know but every little helps!

[ATNotts]

Dubai only just made 30000 down 16-17%

Pete,

I think I read on another site that MAN/DXB was also down by 14%, so I think the figures are more a reflection of the govt. messing around with public holidays this year, and the Royal wedding at the end of April last year than of any dramatic decline in BHX/DXB passengers in particular

[crewmeal]

I think I read on another site that MAN/DXB was also down by 14%, so I think the figures are more a reflection of the govt. messing around with public holidays this year, and the Royal wedding at the end of April last year than of any dramatic decline in BHX/DXB passengers in particular.

And APD. More and more people will be planning trips east via a European point rather than pay the extra to go direct. This will hurt EK with the Christmas bookings.

Willy Walsh is right in what he says about the govt and aviation:

UK government is damaging aviation industry, warns BA boss Willie Walsh - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/9325936/UK-government-is-damaging-aviation-industry-warns-BA-boss-Willie-Walsh.html)

[ATNotts]

Crewmeal

I'm sure you are in part correct, however I believe I am right in saying that if you make a booking, say BHX/FRA/SYD you still pay the full UK APD, for the entire ticketed journey, not just the BHX/FRA leg. That being the case there's no advantage to hopping across to a European hub to avoid UK APD on long haul.

[Jonnyf]

More i think is to be added?

Alicante: Wed, Fri, Sat, Sun
Arrecife: Mon, Fri
Bratislava: Tue, Sat
Budapest: Wed, Sat
Bydgoszcz: Tue, Thu, Sat
Derry: Mon, Wed, Fri, Sun
Dublin: 3x Daily (2x Sun)
Fuerteventura: Fri
Gdansk: Sat
Katowice: Tue
Malaga: Tue, Sat
Rzeszow: Tue, Thu, Sat
Tenerife: Thu Sat

[nigel osborne]

Jonny F.

No doubt dozens of Ryan Airs dumped on our remotes again this winter :ugh::*

Nigel

[GayFriendly]

More i think is to be added?

Not necessarily. TRS, IBZ, PMI, MJV and MPL are summer only. That leaves LPA, MLA, REU, GRO and KUN unaccounted for of routes operating this summer - unless there has been a fall out over charges I would think that GRO, REU and MLA will be winter loaded, not sure about the others, KUN operated last winter but was dropped as a winter route before that. We all know that BHX is a 'frozen' FR base although good to see BUD continuing in the winter, its a great city break destimation.

I for one hope that ZB take up position as biggest 'loco' (if thats what they're still called?) airline at BHX, FR fill a niche on some routes (especially Poland!)but otherwise seem to have given up on BHX.

[Monty Gordo]

GF: While I agree they seem to have given up somewhat on Bhx, they did nontheless and rather surprisingly add BUD this year, and will continue it through the winter.

What does surprise me is that they do not maintain FAO throughout the winter. Loadings always seem good on this route, but as to the yield, I do not have any idea. Maybe that's the reason.

[ATNotts]

ZB take up position as biggest 'loco'

I would have thought that by the end of this year, in terms of passengers carried Monarch will be BHX's biggest carrier - whether they are lo-co or not is debatable, as these days, to survive all commercial (as opposed to government owned) carriers have to have low costs.

I think that the old terms "no frills" is more appropriate to differentiate the lower end of the market from the better carriers today.

[chinapattern]

Did I see an A330 fly in this afternoon?

[justplanecrazy84]

the only 330 i can think of is air transat but thought they only flew 2 day mid week?
please correct me if i'm wrong.

[chinapattern]

Air Transat fly in on Wednesdays - if it was I can only think it must have been a Thomas Cook sub as it come from Manchester direction. It sounded big but disappeared into the clouds to quick.

[justplanecrazy84]

was this about 1pm ish?

[chinapattern]

Yes that sounds about right.

[BHX5DME]

No A330's at BHX on Saturday !

[dwlpl]

There was a Emirates 77W that flew into BHX approaching from the northwest just before 1pm.

[BobBHX]

ATNotts - if you book a through ticket then I think the full APD is charged. However, if you book separate tickets then only the UK- Europe APD is charged. I do this regularly by booking long-haul Business Class from Europe and buying a separate economy ticket to the European hub. Baggage can be interlined without any problem but, of course, you do have to allow a lengthy connection time to cater for any delays.

Madrid - Iberia have cancelled the MAN and GLA services to MAD as from the end of August / mid September. Not much hope then of attracting them to BHX.

[Daza]

More good news for legacy airlines at Birmingham. Turkish will be increasing their daily flights to 10 per weekly from the start of Summer 13 schedules. Extra flights will operate on Monday, Thursday and Sundays departing from BHX late afternoon. Flights are in the TK booking system :ok:.
Daza

[chinapattern]

Madrid - Iberia have cancelled the MAN and GLA services to MAD as from the end of August / mid September. Not much hope then of attracting them to BHX.

Agreed, and while it can be argued that they faced competition from EZY and FR at MAN the same excuse can't be said for GLA. Perhaps if they'd done some advertising....TK prove that works!

[scott737]

Is it too cynical to suggest that IAG would rather have people from GLA and MAN connect to flights via LHR than MAD and perhaps that is why the flights have been cancelled? Do LHR and MAD offer connections to entirely different markets so that there is no overlap i.e. is traffic going to instead of going to LHR?

GLA (at 2 per week) always seemed a half-hearted attempt to get into the MAD market. MAN was, of course, better at daily (I think) but surely multi-daily services from both airports were really needed to make use of the connections at MAD?

Just a thought. Perhaps that's why there was also never any BHX-MAD service: IAG would prefer customers to journey down to LHR themselves.

I also find it curious that BA themselves (through CitiExpress and BACON) maintained a BHX-MAD link for some years but now there seems to be no market for anyone to give it a go?

Scott

[chinapattern]

What I find hard to understand is how Lufthansa, Air France, KLM, Swiss, SAS, Turkish and to a lesser extent TAP, Finnair and even Icelandair can offer multiple daily services to their various hubs from UK regional airports, yet somehow Iberia can't fill x9 CRJ's a week?

[Skipness One Echo]

Two reasons, Spain is about to go Greek and couple that with a high cost base means they can't hope to compete against EZY and FR.

[Ringwayman]

Other thing to note that all the MAN-MAD services on the 3 airlines were timed for late afternoon/early evening. Down to 1 airline from October and it's the airline I daresay MAN had hope would not be the surviving one on this route. They and U2 don't really need advertising. I can barely recall any advertising by IB.. even MAN themselves didn't bother themselves with promoting the route.

[GayFriendly]

What I find hard to understand is how Lufthansa, Air France, KLM, Swiss, SAS, Turkish and to a lesser extent TAP, Finnair and even Icelandair can offer multiple daily services to their various hubs from UK regional airports, yet somehow Iberia can't fill x9 CRJ's a week?

Although the latter three you mention don't fly to BHX the others all do well from BHX and other regionals because they offer multiple interline opportunities to a host of cities in the Middle East, India, SE Asia and North America. MAD with IB would only really is useful interlining to South and Central America, still emerging markets for Europeans in terms holiday/leisure traffic at least. FRA, MUC and DUS with LH have strong business links with Birmingham, with good O&D traffic levels, CDG and AMS are strong on city break traffic.

Always though it was utter madness at MAN to go from none to three airlines to MAD and all within a few hours of each other! At least it knocks the BHX-MAD rumours on the head with IB. Depending on success of IB Express they could be possible in the future to serve MAN, BHX maybe GLA but they use the A320 which is a big old bird to fill profitably on a city route from BHX at least.

[chinapattern]

I would have imagined IB to be targeting business/connecting traffic and leaving FR and EZY to pick up leisure/O&D. Surprising that IB have given up but TAP seem to be doing well. Either way it doesn't look like MAD-BHX will be happening anytime soon.

[Daza]

There are routes that BHX doesn't have MAD is one of them, however maybe we should look at the glass being half full? There have been a raft of new route announcements by both no-frills and legacy airlines and increases on existing routes. There will be negligible loss of seats when BMIBaby closes the situation at Birmingham could be a lot worse. Maybe as Birmingham Airport supporters and commentators we should be happy that things are moving in the right direction? :ok:
Daza

[FQTLSteve]

Very interesting about MAD services, and not just from BHX. However as this is a BHX thread, no-one seems to have explained why BA were able to fly daily BHX-MAD for many years all year round, orginally on 737's then A319's and finally RJ100's (that tells a story in itself).....so where did the pax go?

I think One World, being the smallest network, is no surprise! LH and Star are just mopping up out of UK's big regional airports, BA? I just don't understand the policy???? I'm happy to stick with Miles & More.....excellent service and global reach from BHX!!

[GayFriendly]

no-one seems to have explained why BA were able to fly daily BHX-MAD for many years all year round

Or why EZY make a go of it from LPL and BRS (I think in high summer its 2 x daily from LPL?) yet have just announced they are pulling MAN-MAD?

As for BA BHX-MAD, well I don't know why they managed year round ops but perhaps because the flight originated in (I think) EDI and the lack of no frills flights in those days from BRS, EMA, LPL, LTN which started to draw pax away from BHX could partly explain it. Remember that there was no BA-IB tie up in those days. IB operated BHX-MAD in their own right using MD81/87's although am not sure if both airlines operated it at the same time. Once no frills flights got established of course the high BA cost base spelt the end of routes like MAD, ATH, VIE etc from BHX

The only possible candidate other than IB would have been EZY but even they are closing their MAD base now, so really unless ZB have a go (I suppose it does fit into their new 'city' strategy) I can't see BHX-MAD operating at all for a long time to come

[crewmeal]

no-one seems to have explained why BA were able to fly daily BHX-MAD for many years all year round

Don't forget back in the 90's BHX was a viable hub for BA/Maersk flights where pax would feed in and out of BHX. It was particularly popular with Scottish routes. Timings were always set, so there was no overlap and the domestic services fed many of the European routes. JFK and ORD were good alternative hub routes feeding into Europe, avoiding LHR.

There is nothing like that now sadly.

[TartinTon]

back in the 90's BHX was a viable hub for BA/Maersk flights

Hardly. Maersk was used to propogate the BA brand where they couldn't be bothered and milk AP Moller for a large 7-figure sum for the "benefit" of using the BA brand via the franchise fee. Fares were always skewed to offer LON connections first followed by MAN and then any other points. Maersk got screwed by BA. When a franchise route became too profitable all of a sudden BA would claim it back as their own. BA had the advantage of seeing all revenues and yields so could make that call as they saw fit as all bookings were made through the BA host system.

[Skipness One Echo]

BA would claim it back as their own.
I genuinely can't think of one off the top of my head. Can you give some examples? The BA cost base being added to a franchise route would often mean a profit maker for the franchisee crashing into the red on transfer to Mainline.

[crewmeal]

Maersk was used to propogate the BA brand where they couldn't be bothered and milk AP Moller for a large 7-figure sum for the "benefit" of using the BA brand via the franchise fee.

I know that. I only mentioned it because of the convenience to the passenger and not the politics. I know that BA were 'jealous' of Maersk's success on various routes and the endless times that passengers would say that they had never heard of this 'route' and only found out by chance. BA's behaviour towards the franchise was disgraceful. If it worked properly then more routes could have been established and more money would have been made for BA!!

There was talk of Maersk going 'low cost' and breaking away from BA altogether, but they were having none of it, and eventually screwed Maersk to the ground. The rest is history.

[scott737]

To give one example that comes to mind straightaway of a route initially started by Maersk and then 'transferred' to BA would be BHX-FCO. I think Maersk operated 737s down to FCO for a while before BA operated it with their AR1s.

I'm pretty sure there were other routes similarly swapped from Maersk to BA but my memory is hazy. I can't think of (m)any that were transferred the other way...

Scott

[OltonPete]

Passenger figures from the CAA, average pax and load factor estimated using blogs and libhomeradar. The 2011 figures are in brackets and these are schedule routes only. I suspect some load factors were better as I did not have all the cancellation data.

It seems Hamburg and Milan have a bit too much capacity!

Amsterdam-41855-(41079)-99 pax- 74%
Paris CDG-29946-(27131)-89 pax - 75%
Frankfurt-22293- (26389) - 97 pax - 62%
Munich- 14727-(13079) - 79 pax - 68%
Dusseldorf-16392-(16538)- 47 pax - 57%
Hanover- 5185-(5612) - 48 pax - 57%
Hamburg-4625-(2360)-32 pax-38%
Stuttgart-3681 (3804) - 37 pax - 47%
Zurich-10920-(13222)- 64 pax - 66%
Copenhagen -7510-(7383)- 71 pax - 70%
Brussels- 9083- (11396) - 40 pax - 48%
Rome FCO-7348 (nil)- 94 pax - 56%
Milan MXP-6523-(4670) - 68 pax - 41%
Venice VCE-2757-(nil)- 77 pax - 44%
Nice-4035-(3104) - 101 pax -68%
Lyon-nil-(3270)
Avignon-215-(93)-36 pax-46%
Dublin-42594-(44771)- - 67%
Cork-6895-(6578) - 46 pax - 64%
Ireland West (KNOCK)-4688-(3776)- 90 pax - 61%
Shannon 2250-(3001- 36 pax - 50%
Waterford-1484-(1220) - 24 pax - 31%
Alicante- 26226- (22697) - 156 pax - 86%
Almeria-3389-(3187) - 188 pax - 88%
Barcelona-3553-(nil) - 104 pax - 70%
Gerona-5118-(3768)- 151 pax - 80%
Ibiza-5749-(5083)- 151 pax - 78%
Mahon--5995-(6542)- 176 pax - 82%
Malaga 25862 (27477) - 156 pax-84%
Murcia-8709-(8658) - 136 pax - 79%
Palma- 19487 (14969) - 160 pax - 85%
Reus- 3439-(3781)- 132 pax - 70%
Tenerife-12000- (13901) - 182 pax - 90%
Arrecife-8009 (7843) - 167 pax - 84%
Las Palmas-6051 (5568) - 168 pax - 84%
Fuerteventura-2766 (4989) - 153 pax - 80%
Faro 19247-(18682) - 163 pax - 85%
Lisbon-1789-(nil) - 99 pax - 68%
Montpellier- 2041-(2535)- 128 pax - 67%
Triest-1,928-(2180)- 107 pax - 57%
Budapest- 2585-(nil)- 144 pax - 76%
Bratislava-4386-(4435)- 157 pax - 83%
Prague- 3724-(nil) - 116 pax - 78%
Katowice-3260-(3109)- 164 pax - 87%
Bydgoszcz-4,807-(4535) 172 pax - 91%
Rzesnow- 3,086-(3068)- 171 pax - 91%
Gdansk- 2913-(2943) - 162 pax - 86%
Kaunas 2,893-(2873) - 161 pax - 85%
Dubai-30542-(36953)- 246 pax-61%
Islamabad-8356-(8553)- 232 pax - 67%
Istanbul 7307-(4049) - 118 pax - 76
New York EWR- 9361-(9570) - 151 pax - 89%
Ashkhabad-4471-(4860)- 132 pax - 70%
Malta-2670-(2957)- 167 pax - 88%
Paphos- 4165- (2977) - 160 pax - 79%
Larnaca -7134- (5008) - 162 pax -82%
Dalaman 8223 (4646) - 164 pax - 81%
Bodrum- 2986-(738)-136 pax-78%
Heraklion-2644-(nil)-147 pax-75%
Dubrovnik-2460-(466)-102 pax - 66%

Pete

[CARNMANORLAD]

Pete,

Is Derry no longer a destination from BHX? Seems you've left it out on quite a few occasions when doing your stats.

[FlyOften]

CARNMANORLAD, Londonderry is domestic, and it looks like Pete excludes those. Would be interesting to see them however, especially as EMA has lost the baby Scottish routes until flybe pick them up.

[OltonPete]

CARNMANORLAD & FlyOften

With domestic it is mainly flybe with Eastern and FR LDY making up the rest and all but the latter these are not easy to track.

All FR flights are reported on a BHX blog and our easy to log but flybe are a mare as they often change aircraft, cancel, consolidate flights and often libhomeradar doesn't show all their rotations for one reason or another.

This leaves the CAA punctuality stats from the CAA and they run about 6-8 weeks in arrears but I will play catch-up and post the last few months when I get the time.

Today saw flybe once again using the F50 on Isle of Man and Waterford, a Q400 replacing a 195 for the second day running but no cancellations.

Air Finland operated Monarch Rome today although it won't be available tomorrow as it is operating a charter to Kiev at 06.00 - apparently some sporting event on over there ;)

Pete

[crewmeal]

Pete - What's your view on the endless nose diving figures for Dubai?

[GayFriendly]

The nosedive in figures is very worrying as is EK's reluctance to offer First Class from BHX on what is now a mature route for them. Have we got to a point where there are simply so many flights to the Middle East from MAN and LHR/LGW that BHX is being squeezed in the middle? Not that I wish them any ill at all but I don't think TK have helped either - I think a lot of Indian connecting traffic seem to have defected to them, although to be fair these pax are well known for being price sensitive and therefore low yielding. TK are going up to 13 x weekly next summer! I can't see a third daily EK for now.

[OltonPete]

crewmeal & GayFriendly

I assume a mixture of reasons but BHX is not alone although Heathrow is holding up well as one might expect - here some are some May figures for three Middle Eastern routes. I still think the major aspect is over-capacity with GF states BHX getting squeezed. TK have increased but some say they have just picked up the Mahan Air passengers since they left.

Dubai (2011 in brackets)

Gatwick - 42886 (48074) -11% average per flight 230
Heathrow -139736 (137110) +2%
Birmingham - 30542 (36953) -17% average per flight 246 - 61%
Glasgow -19995 (20651) - 3% average per flight 323 - 75%
Manchester - 43590 (50511) -14% average per flight - 259 - 64%
Newcastle - 10329 (11778) - 12% average per flight - 167 - 62%

Manchester only achieved 64% due to EK21/22 was cancelled 9 times and EK17 was a low density A380 25 times out of 31 flights.

BHX saw 21 of 62 flights down-graded to low density 777's and it would have looked much worse if it was all two-class (20 x 3-class already in June).


Abu Dhabi

Heathrow 41739 (42798) -2%
Manchester 21369 (14625) +46% - 172 average per flight - 66%*

*Based on zero cancellations

Doha

Gatwick Nil (9103)
Heathrow 61043 (52271) +17%
Manchester 16516 (12271) +29% - 188 average per flight 67%

Both Heathrow and Manchester saw extra QR flights in 2012.

I used libhomeradar and planespotters.net for the frequency, type of aircraft used and seating capacity for each aircraft but I would say these figures will not be too far out. CAA stats used for the passenger figures.

There is little relief in the short-term as Ramadan starts mid July this year when traditionally figures usually recover due to the impending school holidays but it could be September before figures improve.



Pete

[chinapattern]

I wonder if passengers who would normally originate from BHX are now opting to fly for MAN/LHR because an AM departure is more convenient? In the case of MAN this wasn't an issue twelve months ago but it seems that since the rapid increase in EK/QR/EY flights from MAN last year BHX has seen their numbers decrease. QR made it clear when they went twice daily they were trying to attract passengers from the midlands so their morning departure can't be helping and while I guess the majority of passengers don't care what plane they fly, for some flying the A380 out of LHR/MAN could also be persuasive.

[GayFriendly]

Thanks OP for the stats, as always very interesting reading and it certainly puts BHX's situation into perspective. However I worry that the bean counters at EK are casting more than a beady eye at both BHX and NCL as both have seemed weak for a while now.

crewmeal your are spot on - almost immediately after QR/EY/EK massively upped capacity at MAN, BHX-DXB loads started to decline. EK must have thought about this before coming in with the A380 and perhaps high yielding pax and cargo are enough to keep BHX afloat for them? EK are not cheap from BHX, fares from LON/MAN with them and QR/EY are often considerably cheaper. I hope EK do not end up like UA to EWR where you have to pay through the nose for the convenience of using BHX. I have just looked for BHX-MCT for October half term and can get it from MAN with QR and EY (AND a same day connection both ways thanks to the morning flight) for about £100 cheaper than EK from BHX which is an overnight flight. I'm sure there are many more examples like this. As crewmeal said I think the a.m departures ex MAN are very attractive as they allow same day connections to a whole host of destinations in the Middle East and Indian sub-continent, smething you can't do from BHX on current EK timings.

Funnily enough though the cheapest of all airlines to MCT for my preferred dates (Sat-Sat) are not Middle Eastern based, in fact it's KLM who can do it for just over £400 from BHX, although its two changes at AMS and BAH making it quite a long journey (EK out of interest on same dates is £576 although I would probably have the whole row to myself going on current loads ;)).

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "Funnily enough though the cheapest of all airlines to MCT for my preferred dates (Sat-Sat) are not Middle Eastern based, in fact it's KLM who can do it for just over £400 from BHX, although its two changes at AMS and BAH making it quite a long journey (EK out of interest on same dates is £576 although I would probably have the whole row to myself going on current loads"

Check it again, GayFriendly, BAH may just be a "stopover" rather than a "change". Chances are that you will stay on the plane while it's on the ground for an hour or so, while BAH-bound pax disembark, some pax may join the flight (depending if they 5th freedom rights), there may be a little refueling, the cleaners may run through the cabin, and the cabin crew may ask pax to identify their carry-on baggage.

It sounds a similar arrangement to BA's LHR-MCT which has a stop at AUH.
As for AMS, it's an easy airport to do a change in, it's all under one roof, but be aware that security is at the gate, so don't buy a bottle of water for the flight!

It's no hardship and £400 is not a bad price these days!

[jabird]

Or has demand on all LH eased since APD went up in April? May would be the first full month of this?

Just want to exclude anything which isn't within control of BHX & EK?

I would be more worried about this than any (ex)-baby routes which haven't been replaced (yet).

Mgmt are placing great hopes on the runway extension, the very point of which is to enable more direct links to some of the places currently served by EK via DXB.

If your data was saying people are avoiding Brum to use direct services from LHR, then fine - the runway will remedy that. But you are saying that on like for like comparisons, BHX is inconvenient / badly timed / over-priced.

The solution to this surely lies in more competition - although your suggestion is that there is already too much due to TK?

Any answers?

[jabird]

Check it again, GayFriendly, BAH may just be a "stopover" rather than a "change".

As a geek, imho that's worse than a change as with a change you can get out, enjoy the superdooper airport terminal and stretch your legs.

With a stopover you go through the same to/l cycle again but you are then stuck on board during the change over.

Granted, same plane means you won't be waiting on a missed connection, but it ain't the same as going there non-stop.

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "As a geek, imho that's worse than a change as with a change you can get out, enjoy the superdooper airport terminal and stretch your legs.

With a stopover you go through the same to/l cycle again but you are then stuck on board during the change over.

Granted, same plane means you won't be waiting on a missed connection, but it ain't the same as going there non-stop."

Yes, it's not the same, but trust me, it isn't that bad! It's a short hop after BAH, 2 hours tops (?). For a breath of fresh air go and stand by the open door of the galley for a few minutes.

Would agree 100% if on a LHR-SYD stopover at SIN for example, pax travelling through were not allowed off the plane, but AMS-MCT via BAH isn't a hardship.

Has to be worth it to be on a reputable carrier and to save £176!

[jabird]

I also find it curious that BA themselves (through CitiExpress and BACON) maintained a BHX-MAD link for some years but now there seems to be no market for anyone to give it a go?

Just to go back to MAD, I have flown this route into EMA with FR, although that didn't last long.

Much of the discussion has been on MAD as a hub - all well and good, but its core market (South America) is of limited use, it is a longer way round for the USA or sub-Saharan Africa. What about the O&D? No idea what yields were like on EMA, but for city routes, surely BHX makes more sense. Ditto OSL and even HEL for DY one day? At least ARN now happening with SAS.

[FR-]

With regards to MAD-EMA it was always planned to fly the route for a year then move it STN.

fr-

[SWBKCB]

However I worry that the bean counters at EK are casting more than a beady eye at both BHX and NCL as both have seemed weak for a while now.

GayFriendly - do you mean this NCL, which gets the 773 instead of the 332 this Autumn?

Laurie Berryman, the vice-chairman of Emirates who oversaw the Dubai link being established five years ago, has said that in three years it is possible it could go from a once-a-day to a twice-daily service as has recently been introduced in Glasgow. He said. “We’ve been delighted by how people, businesses and political organisations have got behind the route and made it a success, but now we want to increase passenger numbers by 15% this year and 20% next year – from 80,000 people to around 120,000 or 130,000 – and we definitely think that is achievable. You never know, in three years’ time we might be here again discussing a double daily service”

[rn750]

BBC reporting on the below..

BBC News - Birmingham Airport calls for focus on regions (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18575260)
and this was mentioned in the headlines on Radio 5 this morning..

[BHX5DME]

25 June 2012
Birmingham Airport has today released a report that challenges orthodox opinion about aviation policy in the UK.

The report, authored by Paul Kehoe, Birmingham Airport’s chief executive, says that in order for the whole of Britain to capture the economic benefits of changes in global travel the Government must fully utilise existing airport infrastructure and pursue a balanced aviation strategy.

The report, Don’t put all of your eggs in one basket: a challenge to aviation orthodoxy, argues that:
• Complicated hub-and-spoke demand management policies are failing to adapt to the challenges of aviation in the twenty-first century.
• Britain needs several airports capable of delivering point-to-point connectivity to emerging markets.
• A third runway at Heathrow will only meet 7% of additional passenger capacity needs by 2050; it is not a national aviation strategy.
• The six largest regional airports could add 116 million of passenger capacity to the network by 2050.
Commenting on the report Paul Kehoe, Chief Executive of Birmingham Airport said: “This report is my challenge to policy-makers to think beyond a single hub model that has become rigid aviation orthodoxy, and to consider alternative approaches that can deliver the airport capacity we need, today.

“The alternative approach that I am putting forward is a balanced aviation strategy that makes full use of Britain’s existing airports and that will deliver benefits to the UK more efficiently, more quickly and at a lower cost than any other proposal on the table.

“We have a Government which is set on rebalancing the economy, and we have fantastic airports around the country with the spare capacity to deliver this growth. It is illogical that we are still trying to channel all traffic through the South East, which will only serve to reinforce the imbalance within the economy.

“At Birmingham Airport the number of passengers could double from nine million a year to eighteen million today. We have already started the construction of our runway extension and when completed, in 2014, this number will increase beyond thirty six million. Our runway extension will also allow us to fly to high-value new markets, including Brazil, China and India.

“This report challenges Government to draw a line under old-fashioned industry thinking. It is time to start recognising that there is more than one solution for UK aviation”

As part of the launch of the report, Birmingham Airport has laid out ten ‘tests’ for the Government to meet a balanced UK aviation policy:
1. Does it cater for the short-term, build towards the medium-term and lay the foundations for the UK’s long-term capacity needs?
2. Does it provide airports in the South East with the flexibility to replace low value routes with new, high values services?
3. Does it provide the aviation industry with suitable headroom to ensure the access to the UK is resilient to changes in the weather, accidents and or terrorist activities?
4. Does it ensure that customers are able to fly direct to markets of their choice, from their nearest major airport?
5. Does it provide support for the Government’s wider Growth Agenda by encouraging employment in areas that already suffer from acute economic depression?
6. Does it facilitate economic rebalancing within the UK by supporting the creation of direct connections between the UK’s industrial capacity and customers in emerging markets?
7. Does it allow all parts of the UK to compete for foreign direct investment?
8. Does it provide incentives for airlines to create point-to-point services between UK cities and cities in emerging economies to create new, city pairs?
9. Does it balance the environmental impact of aviation growth for residents across the UK?
10. Does it support the integration of road, rail and air transport networks within the UK?
The report is the latest part of Birmingham Airport’s political campaign that is due to run over the summer, during the Government’s aviation consultation. Earlier in the month, Birmingham Airport released a series of hard-hitting adverts on tubes in London, online and in political magazines.

[jabird]

“At Birmingham Airport the number of passengers could double from nine million a year to eighteen million today. We have already started the construction of our runway extension and when completed, in 2014, this number will increase beyond thirty six million. Our runway extension will also allow us to fly to high-value new markets, including Brazil, China and India.

Now I'll put any political thoughts to one side and just get down to the technical.

What is the current capacity of the (two) joined terminals, given recent developments. Is it really 18m - with no new infrastructure?
How does that suddenly jump to more than twice this figure - essentially the size of LGW - without (a) needing any new terminals, (b) needing huge upgrdes to roads - or are 100% of these passengers coming on hs2? Given (a), how would BHX suddenly become the size of LGW without (a) needing a lengthy public inquiry to approve of this growth? Or is a new (third) terminal suddenly allowed within PDRs? And (c), if BHX does become the size that LGW is now, doesn't that automatically re-open the debate over the second runway, this defeating the very point of this policy?

[Skipness One Echo]

The rather obvious question is, why does Birmingham have spare capacity? Why is the mighty Emirates stalled in growth at BHX? Why did CO not succeed on twice daily BHX-EWR? Because the market wasn't strong enough.

As far as capacity to serve London goes, Stansted is a ghost town outwith the first and final FR waves. Capacity is not the problem, putting capacity where business can make a commercial return is the core issue.

[jabird]

As far as capacity to serve London goes, Stansted is a ghost town outwith the first and final FR waves. Capacity is not the problem, putting capacity where business can make a commercial return is the core issue.

That is exactly what I don't get with (2). If airports in the SE (ie LON not BHX) get so busy that they have to shove loco and charter routes out of the way, then all BHX does is pick up the crumbs. This would only be AFTER the following:

1) Legacies that can't use LHR fill up LGW (as has happened on some Asian routes)
2) Yields for these legacies are better than BA sh at LGW, so that closes.
3) Some hard up airlines cash out LHR slots for remaining BA + VS to consolidate at LHR.
4) Other legacies keep moving in on LGW, forcing U2 to move some routes to STN & LTN.
5) STN at last can charge what it wants for FR and other locos.

Then and ONLY then do FR move to BHX for a major base operation, rather than the cold storage they have been opting for of late.

I think the chances that we'd go all the way from 1 to 5 without a new runway being approved at either LHR or LGW are slim anyway.

So under what circumstances does BHX pick up routes which are beyond its natural market?

[nigel osborne]

Jaibird,

I think that all BHX can realistically hope for is more Midland travellers choosing to fly from BHX. I think it unlikely that airlines would move from LHR to BHX due to capacity constraints in the SE.

The only possibility would be airlines or routes that BHX can nearly support and those airlines ,who are were in two mindsrisking BHX if LHR congestion gets too bad.

As for Ryan Air I certainly don't want an more services into BHX with them, unless they are routes not covered by existing airlines..otherwise they are a creeping cancer pushing out established carriers.

Nigel

[Fairdealfrank]

Paul Kehoe, Birmingham Airport’s chief executive, needs to convince carriers other than EK and KL that there is business potential with sufficient yield ex-BHX.

As for longhaul at BHX, the problem is very simple, EK and KL have been funnelling longhaul pax through their hubs at DXB and AMS very successfully for a while. No carriers appear to want to take them on by offering direct flights. Maybe like (the much slated) BA, they also believe that they can't make money on BHX operations.

It's desperately sad, but a fact of life.

[S78]

BHX does have spare capacity - but only if you want to fly in during the quiet periods - 02:00-07:00, 11:00-12:00, 20:00-21:30.

Assuming the runway can take an extra 9m passengers today, the terminal isn't big enough to cope, the immigration halls are definitely not big enough and the staffing levels aren't there (UKBA, Servisair etc). Arriving passengers are frequently queuing up the stairs and down the international pier during the busy periods at lunchtime and midnight.

9m extra passengers today? No, get the staffing levels right and you may have an extra 1-2m next year. Anything above that and you'll need to do some building work.....

[Ringwayman]

As for longhaul at BHX, the problem is very simple, EK and KL have been funnelling longhaul pax through their hubs at DXB and AMS very successfully for a while. No carriers appear to want to take them on by offering direct flights.

Even when profitable, it looks like routes were dropped

This story about the restoration of an Indian link (http://www.birminghampost.net/birmingham-business/birmingham-business-news/other-uk-business/2009/03/16/akal-air-steps-in-to-run-new-routes-from-birmingham-to-india-65233-23151364/) includes this:

"Although its Birmingham-India route was more profitable than any of the London ones, Air India had to drop the service to avoid losing valuable slots at Heathrow because of the way the London airport is run."

[DGu]

Where can you see the full report and not just the summary/press release on BHX website?
The other thing is that if they are going to increase their numbers by over 10mppa, then they will need new infastructure and the application will automatically become a planning project described as Nationally Strategic Infrastructure Project, being taken direct to the Planning Inspectorate (what was the Infrastructure Planning Commission until April this year). Is BHX really going to go down that route?

[RealFish]

Pete, when you are working out your load factors with Monarch, do you base these on the nominal A320 /321 capacities of the diagrammed aircraft?

I notice Monarch have been substituting with 757 / 767's recently. Presumably these will carry their 320's worth of pax (unless (if forward planned) they are taking advantage of, and selling the extra seats).

[nigel osborne]

Well seems the Govt may have decided to try and force some services from congested LHR and Gatwick..Proposal announced today to look at cutting APD for Regional Airports and put it up at LHR,LGW.

This might help BHX in attracting a few more airlines if it comes off :D :ok:

North’s airport passengers to pay lower tax - Liverpool News - News - Liverpool Daily Post (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2012/06/21/north-s-airport-passengers-to-pay-lower-tax-99623-31225910/)

Nigel

[OltonPete]

RealFish

In May I used the capacity for the scheduled aircraft and not the replacement. I have no idea if they have taken advantage of the extra seats on Air Finland although that might be coming to an abrupt end if airlineroute is correct.

To be honest I do the same for the flybe figures as they chop and change fro the Q400/175/195.

Nigel - Sounds far too sensible but fingers crossed and I am sure it will help a little

Ringwayman I for one never believed that re Air India. Even less so after last weeks quote that 80% of AI's losses came from a handful of routes all of which were long-haul including Delhi - Toronto, which morphed from the DEL-ATQ-BHX-YYZ.

I know you have to treat anything with a pinch of salt from press releases but this is an airline that has 777's sitting around and if ATQ-BHX was so profitable it would have re-started ages ago. We know the market is there but as many have said not a very profitable one although with India, never say never.

Pete

added link
Air Finland out of business | Yle Uutiset | yle.fi (http://yle.fi/uutiset/air_finland_out_of_business/6196080)

[RealFish]

Thanks Pete.

Air Finland: Crikey! Abrupt indeed - I hope that they got back from today's jaunt for Monarch before the shutters came down.

[Ringwayman]

Flew a positioning flight to MAN to readiness to operate a Thomas Cook flight but it's still there now I believe. Don't know if the snow ploughs are out as part of the impounding of it.

[getonittt]

This has been lobbied by BHX for some months now, ever since the decision to cut APD on long haul from Northern Ireland was made last year. Ever since this lousy tax was introduced it has crept up and up as it seems it was easy prey, like tax on cigs and booze. But , combined with the recession , it has had a detremental effect on our long haul pax routes. Speaking for myself my last 3 trips to the states have been from LHR hubbing through EWR instead of from BHX purely because of cost . in reply to skipness one echo :

The rather obvious question is, why does Birmingham have spare capacity? Why is the mighty Emirates stalled in growth at BHX? Why did CO not succeed on twice daily BHX-EWR? Because the market wasn't strong enough

The market IS there, already on this thread we have been told that the fares for EK from BHX are higher than those of London . So , if the chancellor reduces APD on long haul from the regions there is no need to spend 32 Billion on HS2 taking brummies to catch their planes in London and no need for southerners to come to BHX to catch theirs.

Sound sensible? bound not to happen then....

[jabird]

As for longhaul at BHX, the problem is very simple, EK and KL have been funnelling longhaul pax through their hubs at DXB and AMS very successfully for a while. No carriers appear to want to take them on by offering direct flights.

Well looking the other way, did BHX even get a full season out of the PHL route? Why did that one vanish faster than a Philly cheese streak roll down a tubby gullet?

Will the runway extension bring it back? Will it :mad:

[getonittt]

Well looking the other way, did BHX even get a full season out of the PHL route? Why did that one vanish faster than a Philly cheese streak roll down a tubby gullet?


Yes , there was a full season, and it did well , but US airways joined the star alliance and were ordered to join the cartel operating out of London.
Give us a level playing field and we will build our runway extension on it . :E

[StoneyBridge Radar]

Yes , there was a full season, and it did well , but US airways joined the star alliance and were ordered to join the cartel operating out of London.

What a load of old tosh ! Exactly who "ordered" them to join this mysterious cartel operating out of Heathrow ? :ugh:

Had BHX been profitable for them, they would have happily operated from BHX, LHR and MAN.

There was nothing more sinister to their decision to pull BHX, other than the fact BHX was so low yielding that even their smallest transatlantic equipment, the B757, couldn't generate sufficient revenue for it to be profitable.

It is a classic example of how BHX gets continually squeezed these days by LHR to the south, and by MAN to the north.

[crewmeal]

It is a classic example of how BHX gets continually squeezed these days by LHR to the south, and by MAN to the north.

This is very true not just with US Airways but 'Any' Airways. Apart from feeder services, if a route makes money the carrier will stay the course. If it doesn't then it will stop flying regardless which political party is in power. BHX has always been squeezed between MAN & LON. Nothing much will change even with the extended runway. Even if Management offered discounts and enticements to carriers this IMHO wouldn't even work.

Willy Walsh wants a 3rd runway at LHR and not a 3rd London airport. BA made the decision to pull out of the regions 10 years ago and they're hardly going to reverse that decision.

[GayFriendly]

BHX has always been squeezed between MAN & LON. Nothing much will change even with the extended runway. Even if Management offered discounts and enticements to carriers this IMHO wouldn't even work.

Sadly, I couldn't agree more. LHR will always remain the holy grail for airlines and if they can't get in or expand there, they will do at LGW instead - as Air China and Korean have just done. If BHX had already finished the runway extension, would they have considered coming to BHX instead? I doubt it. It is going to take a HUGE change in both industry and public perceptions to encourage serious viable long haul ops at BHX and for it to be seen by airlines as an alternative to the golden runways of LHR. Whilst this is not impossible, rightly or wrongly, LON is seen as THE entry point to the WHOLE of the UK by most of the rest of the world. When I used to live abroad, Travel Agents would automatically check LHR first when I was looking for quotes for my annual flight back to the UK. When in Dubai, they often weren't aware of BHX's existence let alone that EK flew there! It is going to take more than a few adverts on the tube to change this.

I do admire what PK and his team are trying to do and they have made some very good points. Yes, BHX now has great facilities, much improved over the years and I have always supported the runway extension. I am not saying that BHX will not see some growth in long haul ops in the future but I worry that BHX is relying on a massive growth in long haul ops for future growth and development seduced by the glamour of making political headlines rather than based on commercial realities.

[getonittt]

What a load of old tosh ! Exactly who "ordered" them to join this mysterious cartel operating out of Heathrow ? :ugh:


Yes o.k. don't take my words literally , but you cannot deny it was of no coincidence that the joining of the star alliance meant the end for this service with the inevitable standard excuse of '' not enough yield '' used for a service that had a PLF of over 75% and was mooted that it was more than likely to go to a year round service. I have nothing against alliances, BHX does very well with the 2 that operate out of there, but going back to my ORIGINAL point , i think the reduction of APD on long haul routes outside london will benefit regional airports. Not just LH point to point , but leisure long haul and also those airlines hubbing through a european airport.

[nigel osborne]

getonit

US Airways and BHX both said separately the US Air service was axed dueto much lower yields than expected..so it was nothing to do with LHR alliances .

Nigel

[Norsemanuk]

Just to confirm OltonPete's comments


Air Finland ceases operations (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/air-finland-ceases-operations-373427/)

[Norsemanuk]

Noticed from the following link that Sun Air starting GOT-MAN.
If I remember correctly,didn't City Airline(Skyways) now bankrupt, operate this route via BHX on the return leg ie.GOT-MAN-BHX-GOT?
Probably they have BHX in mind!:ok:

Boarding.no : SUN-AIR takes over Manchester - Gothenburg route (http://boarding.no/art.asp?id=50373)

In 1990 BEA(Birmingham Executive Airways/Birmingham European Airways) flew a similar route using BAC 1-11 BHX-GOT-OSL-BHX.

[Ringwayman]

BHX had their own 2 daily flights but come holiday time it was combined with MAN. Latterly, it seemed to have only been a daily service that was operated into BHX whilst MAN remained 2 daily. Perhaps they only had a single aircraft operating all those sectors.

[crewmeal]

In 1990 BEA(Birmingham Executive Airways/Birmingham European Airways) flew a similar route using BAC 1-11 BHX-GOT-OSL-BHX.

Sadly that was another example of bad advertising by BA and indeed the Danes who were running BEA at the time. You were lucky to get 30 economy passengers. Very little business traffic on that route. It was shelved about 12 months after it started. The 1-11 400 was a thirsty beast as well, so the economics just weren't there.

[Flying Wild]

BHX closed due to a bloody great thunderstorm!! We're rocking and rolling on the ramp with a plane full of pax!