BIRMINGHAM - 5

[OltonPete]

dionysius

Much the same as everyone else has said, no panic really although it is
going to be a quiet winter but look at the routes that are seasonal and
have just ended:-

Monarch - LEI, MAH, IBZ, PMI, BJV, DLM & PFO

Ryanair - MPL, REU, PMI, IBZ, MJV, & TRS

BMI Baby - PMI, MJV, FAO & NCE

flybe - EGC, BOD, BES, TLS, AVN & DBV.

I know some of these ended in September and the passenger figures for that month were a little poor but the core business routes seem to be holding up.

Pete

[chinapattern]

I'm no expert, but what would be the practicalities of QR launching a route such as DOH-WAW-BHX or perhaps even DOH-BHX-EDI? Would they be effective as an initial means of tapping into the market before launching direct flights?

[GayFriendly]

Nice idea chinapattern and I think China Eastern have done something similar by adding HAM to their PEK-FRA rotation, creating a HAM-FRA-PEK through flight. Sadly I don't think this would work for QR going from BHX as the majority of pax will be transiting DOH to go on somewhere else, which makes a (hypothetical example) BHX-WAW stop-DOH-SIN seem quite unattractive in terms of journey time compared to the single connection BHX-FRA/CDG/AMS/DXB-SIN or even BHX by road to LHR-SIN journey.

I personally think Scotland will be QR's next UK port of call (either EDI or GLA) they seem happy for Midlands traffic to route through either LHR or MAN. EK figures from BHX have also been suffering since the big increase in Middle Eastern flights from MAN so is it a case that there is simply not enough demand (at the moment) for a BHX-DOH aswell?

[MANTFS]

Possibly some new routes and additional airframes on the way from Monarch today?

[ssflyer]

It is here, two new aircraft and 5 new routes including Crete and Dubrovnik.
Monarch Airlines Announces Birmingham Expansion - Birmingham Airport (http://www.birminghamairport.co.uk/meta/news/2011/11/monarch-news-article.aspx)

[Monty Gordo]

We have been waiting a long time for good news on route development at Birmingham, so Monarch's announcement this morning does help to lift that gloom.

While there has been plenty of speculation that Monarch's plan was to introduce routes from other UK airports ie Bristol and Newcastle, the airline has decided to invest in those that it already serves. Given that speculation I am sure the management team at BHX has been proactive in playing its part in securing this decision - a decision which will help pax numbers and also provide much-needed jobs.

Speculation still surrounds the future of BMI-Baby, let's hope their plans for summer '12 and the new routes they plan also come to fruition.

I'm looking at a glass half-full.....

[OltonPete]

Monty Gordo

Indeed great news although it would be nice to know BHX's input, although on the route selection you would have to guess very little.

Five routes but only one new destination in Venice. I like the idea of Rome but baby announced that a few months ago. Dubrovnik was tried at three weekly by flybe and they reduced it to weekly but are still operating it weekly in summer. Hopefully Monarch should be okay with this one as I assume it is a growing market.

Milan is one I would never have guessed but Heraklion is not surprising. The new routes certainly don't come anywhere near filling two aircraft and I assume the Palma frequency might revert to daily and LCA and DLM increased?

Madrid is possibly the only route I might have expected with the much vaunted tie-up with Air Europa and perhaps Pisa.

Pete

[MKY661]

Nice to see Monarch expanding from Birmingham. I think that Birmingham will become it third largest base (Overatking Luton) if things keep up. Would actually like ZB to start Barcelona & Gibraltar from BHX that would be good. (Reason for Gibraltar is because ZB already do LTN & MAN and baby do EMA so i have a strong feeling that BHX will be next, plus EZY from LPL has done really well)

[chinapattern]

For those who didn’t see it, the news about Monarch was the main headline on Midlands Today last night. Interestingly they mentioned talks between BHX and United about starting up ORD flights and noted how in the past 12 months BHX had lost nine routes but gained seven. I’m just trying to think what these routes are?
The “new” routes I’d guess are the bmibaby re-launches of Prague, Rome, Barcelona and Lisbon, Amritsar/Vienna, Venice and if they’re including charters there’s Boa Vista.
I can’t think what the nine lost routes are though – all I can come up with is Tehran which is coming back and Waterford which hasn’t actually gone yet. Unless they’re including Air Malta and Cyprus Airways dropping their flights. Did Ryanair axe a few?

[GayFriendly]

Great news at last for BHX, any expansion of flights must be welcomed even if most of it is on routes already served (and lets not forget this good news could be tempered by the fact that BE have yet to release any French flights for 2012 apart from a weekly AVN, which would be a net loss in destinations if these do not come back)......I am hoping there might be more from ZB to come and that the gaps in schedules are not simply going to be increased frequencies on existing schedules, surely they must be looking at MAD? BER would be great too - Jet2 are going to launch this from LBA so why not ZB from BHX? There are many other well documented gaps in the BHX network, the heartening thing about this announcement is that city routes are included which is exactly where BHX is lacking. With no new routes from FR and BE for 2012 and with WW's future still very much anyones game, could it be ZB that help to bring BHX out of the desperate mire it has been in for a few years?

In a perfect world for summer 2012 ZB additionally announce Berlin, Stockholm, Seville, Gibraltar and Warsaw, BE do continue with regional French flights, UA fly in from Chicago, QR start to give EK a run for their money and AI get back on ATQ/DEL......well there's nothing wrong with dreaming!

[OltonPete]

He are the new flights and the current utilisation.
>
> Rome - five a week
>
> Tue/Thu/Fri/Sat 07.00 1315 Sunday 15.30 21.45
>
> Venice - four a week
>
> Tue/Thu/Sat/Sun 07.30 13.00
>
> Milan MXP - Four a week
>
> Mon/Wed/Fri - 07.30 12.30 Sunday 17.15 22.15 after the new EFL
>
> Dubrovnik - two weekly
>
> Tue/Sat 14.15 21.10
>
> Heraklion - two weekly
>
> Tue 13.15 22.45 Fri 14.15 23.45 (Tuesday converted from an IT)
>
> Monday *IT flight
>
> 1) LEI MAH BJV
> 2) FAO TFS
> 3) AGP DLM
> 4) CFU*LPA
> 5) MXP ??? My guess BJV to move to daylight times
> 6) ??? ??? My guess ALC & PMI or LCA extra
>
> Tuesday
>
> 1)ALC CHQ*
> 2)FAO ACE
> 3)AGP TFS
> 4)FCO ??? My guess PMI or MAH
> 5)VCE DBV
> 6)??? HER (HER goes before FCO gets back) my guess PMI or MAH
>
> Wednesday
>
> 1)ALC FUE
> 2)AGP TFS
> 3)FAO LCA
> 4)MAH PMI
> 5)MXP ??? my guess RHO (currently AVRO seats on Thomson)
> 6)??? ??? PMI am and ???
>
> Thursday
>
> 1)ALC TFS
> 2)AGP LEI ZTE*
> 3)FAO DLM
> 4)PMI ACE IBZ
> 5)FCO ??? My guess IBZ or ZTE move or LCA or MAH
> 6)VCE ??? My guess IBZ or ZTE move or LCA or MAH
>
> Friday
>
> 1)ALC LCA
> 2)FAO PMI BJV
> 3)AGP TFS
> 4)MAH MAH IBZ
> 5)FCO HER
> 6)MXP ??? my guess BJV or IBZ move
>
> Saturday
>
> 1)ALC FUE
> 2)FAO DLM IBZ
> 3)AGP LPA
> 4)PMI ACE PMI (Short season)
> 5)FCO DBV
> 6)VCE ??? My guess IBZ moves extra LCA or 2nd AGP from Sunday
>
> Sunday
>
> 1)ALC AGP IBZ
> 2)FAO LCA
> 3)AGP TFS
> 4)PMI PFO
> 5)VCE FCO
> 6)EFL*MXP
> 7) -- PVK 1450 (Will replace AGP or LCA)

So a Monday Wenesday Friday Madrid would fit but too me they will
either move the Bodrum (Mo/Fr)& Ibiza (Thur-Sun) to daylight hours
and possibly move Thursday night ZTE charter to daylight or they will
convert Corfu into a schedule and add a Thu or Fri.

As for Increases in frequencies I could possibly see: -

Palma and Alicante going daily as they used to be and maybe one extra LCA, MAH and DLM

Sunday as you can see needs adjusting with seven afternoon departures

Pete

[mattjwood]

With all the talk of Monarch expanding their operations at BHX, along with AA re-introducing some flights from BHX, does anybody know when these supposedly 200 new jobs will come available, and what kind of positions will be available?

I am keen to get into aviation and it would be my dream to work at the Airport. I just hope the 200 jobs is not an exaggeration!

Matt

[ATNotts]

mattjwood:

No suggestion that AA will make a return to BHX as far as I can recall. UA/CO have been mentioned in connection with ORD/BHX though.

Also, remember, in times of high unemployment all PR people know the best way of getting your corporate announcement on to local media is to include a statement that "xxx jobs are to be created" - gets the local journos salivating and gives the client sure-fire good publicity!

[ib26uk]

Flew into BHX this afternoon from Dublin on Aer Lingus - On landing and whilst on the bus to the terminal - Noticed about 6/7 Ryanair planes closed up and they appear to be just sat there...

Are these planes part of the "80 planes not flying in winter" thing...

[Centre cities]

Yes they are, did the same last year.

Centre cities

[OltonPete]

More flights released, I got the ALC, LCA & PMI correct but surprised
as BJV and LPA although DLM I suppose was obvious although 5 a week
maybe not.

Alicante & Palma to daily
Larnaca from three to five weekly
Las Palmas two to three weekly
Dalaman three to five weekly
Iibiza four to five weekly
Bodrum two to three weekly

I was a little conservative expecting some night flights to go to day but no
more extra's. Still a couple of gaps to fill.

Aircraft 5 & 6 stand a good chance of being A320's.

Monday *IT flight

1) LEI MAH BJV
2) FAO TFS
3) AGP DLM
4) CFU*LPA
5) MXP PMI IBZ A320?
6) ALC LCA A320?

Tuesday

1)ALC CHQ*
2)FAO ACE
3)AGP TFS
4)PMI HER
5)VCE DLM A320?
6) FCO DBV A320?

Wednesday

1)ALC FUE
2)AGP TFS
3)FAO LCA
4)MAH PFO
5)MXP BJV A320?
6)PMI DLM A320?

Thursday

1)ALC TFS
2)AGP LEI ZTE*
3)FAO DLM
4)PMI ACE IBZ
5)FCO LPA A320?
6)VCE LCA A320?

Friday

1)ALC LCA
2)FAO PMI BJV
3)AGP TFS
4)MAH MAH IBZ
5)FCO HER
6)MXP ??? (CFU?)

Saturday

1)ALC FUE
2)FAO DLM IBZ
3)AGP LPA
4)PMI ACE PMI (Short season)
5)FCO DBV A320?
6)VCE ??? A320?

Sunday

1)ALC AGP IBZ
2)FAO LCA
3)AGP TFS
4)PMI PFO
5)VCE FCO
6)EFL*MXP A320?
7) PVK 1450 (Will replace AGP or LCA)

Pete

[crewmeal]

Nice to see LH launching a new route from Brandenburg (Berlin) to BHX

Berlin – Birmingham NEW Daily
LH3420 BER1825 – 1920BHX 319 D
LH3421 BHX2000 – 2250BER 319 D

320 operates on Day 3

[Occams Razor]

Launching in June 2012?

[Seljuk22]

3rd June 2012 (the date BER will be opened).

[jabird]

Not bad timings for going back to BER after a long day. Advantage of this route being LH is that you could also route via FRA/DUS earlier on in the day.

Some connections possible eg to MOW. Great for Berlin, good for Brum too, at long last a serious route to a European capital. :D:D:D

Next stop MAD?

[GayFriendly]

Halle-flippin-lujah!!!! At long last I will be able to go and visit family in Berlin without the bloody motorway trek to EMA, BRS or LHR of the faff of changing planes en route. I am absolutely made up by this news and am already booked for a return trip in July. This is exactly what BHX needs, more city routes to limit pax leakage to other airports, good on ya LH :D Am keeping everything crossed for a MAD announcement and that Baby survive until next summer to operate LIS and BCN. There is still some way to go in filling in the city route map from BHX but the last couple of weeks have been more than encouraging, that new route development guy who came from MAN has certainly started in his new role with a bang.

[OltonPete]

Ironic that there has been a lot of publicity about the hard work being carried out on reinstating links to Amritsar and Chicago and along comes a load of city routes which virtually everybody including me has been banging on about.

Long-haul is great if they come along but these city routes is the easier way of stopping the leakage of pax to other airports.

Madrid is now the number one missing link in my opinion with Stockholm
possibly the next. Others for the future, Budapest, Warsaw, Vienna, Oslo, Athens and Helsinki perhaps.

Anyway I have booked Berlin already having had it on my "to do" list for a while along with Rome and Venice - 2012 might be an expensive year :eek:.

Pete

[chinapattern]

Is Vienna just a fuel stop for Comtel or can you actually book flights there?

[OltonPete]

I think it picks up passengers for VIE-ATQ-VIE but not BHX-VIE.

A note on their website says that the VIE-ATQ and has to be booked
through travel Agent xxxxx as a charter but they are working on a schedule service.

I could not get up any BHX-VIE flights on their website, whether they
can be booked as a charter I am not sure.

Of course Ryanair would say that BHX-VIE is served but using Bratislava
assuming you could actually get on the flight (well April - Oct anyway).

Pete

[delta154]

Is Vienna just a fuel stop for Comtel or can you actually book flights there?

Apparently you can, but I cant seem to find anywhere you can do this. The whole outfit is a bit wierd.

-its a mint airways B757 with small comtel titles
-The BHX-VIE sector is a charter flight due to having no scheduled rights
-BHX boards doesn't list the route as Armitsar, just Vienna
-Cant seem to book tickets online, just re-confirm bookings.
-Website says they also serve STN and BLQ, but never seen them there.

They seem to be doing well, having gone from 2 weekly to 5 weekly, so lets hope they get all the rights sorted soon.

[OltonPete]

Monarch update summer 2012

Sunday has gone loopy with a day Arrecife added (4 a week) and
afternoon Dalaman (6 weekly) with all other flights still bookable
making eight afternoon departures.

An extra Paphos has been added on Saturday making it 3 a week
and Monday to Thursday and Saturday now have complete schedules
for the six based.

Friday I have only found five afternoon departures - will DLM or ACE
move from Sunday?

delta154

The five weekly is not really happening it is more four and often three
up until now. The aircraft is BHX based and is supposed to depart Thu,
Fri, Sat and Sunday and return Fri, Sat, Sun & Mon but I can only remember
the Thursday operating once and certainly not last week. Still good from
nothing in September.

Pete

[delta154]

Still good from nothing in September

Oh yes, it is good because lets face it, the Indian carriers don't seem to be interested, so at least someone is covering it.

Like I say, if they can get the issues addressed in my post sorted, they could do even better. Only having 'Vienna' on the arrivals board instead of the 'Armitsar' flight could be confusing to family members waiting to pick people up.

[Centre cities]

I think that Turkmen is the same, it only shows Ashkabad on arrivals where it had used to list India as well.


Centre cities

[scott737]

Hi

Just had an e-mail from Flybe confirming that they will be flying to Perpignan, Brest, La Rochelle and Bergerac next summer. Haven't had chance to check frequency but flights start at the end of May. I suppose they'll be similar to this year. I note at least Bordeaux is missing from this year's list, though - anyone know if this will return or whether Flybe are content just to offer Bergerac in that part of the world?

Scott

[OltonPete]

scott737

Unfortunately nowhere near as good as last year with significant cutbacks.

Bordeaux which pax wise was one of the best (more proof it is all about yield) has gone as has Toulouse.

Brest, Bergerac, Avignon, La Rochelle & Perpignan all just weekly from the end of May until the school holidays, only then do they increase.

Brest Wed, Sat & Sun
Bergerac Tu/Th/Sa/Sun
Avignon Wed/Sat
La Rochelle Wed/Sat/Sun
Perpignan Sat only all through?

All gone by the second week in September. Bergerac stated in April this year at two weekly and Brest ran through the winter several years ago.


Obviously one less unit than the start of this summer with Frankfurt ending
so a tighter schedule.

Pete

[GayFriendly]

BHX website has a Mahan arrival listed for tomorrow W5 010 @ 2030 from IKA - an error or their long rumoured return?

Also does anyone know why LH have added a flight number as codeshare on CO flights from EWR? Surely they are not expecting LH pax to choose to route through BHX travelling from the US to/from Germany?!

[airhumberside]

You never know. I'm sure I read that when AF flew CDG-SNN they used to send overflow passengers for JFK via SNN

[Jamie2k9]

LH and CO are menbers of Star Alliance.

[grundyhead]

Heard a rumour from a handling agent today that Emirates were planning a early morning B777 followed by an A380 at lunchtime.

Just read an advert in the Birmingham Mail for Emirates Cabin Crew. If they wish to seek propective candidates from this region, could this mean possible expansion of the ops from BHX???

Fingers crossed.....

[crewmeal]

Just read an advert in the Birmingham Mail for Emirates Cabin Crew. If they wish to seek propective candidates from this region, could this mean possible expansion of the ops from BHX???

They have roadshows where recruiters go around different countries to recruit local people. They sometimes go to smaller towns and cities to interview. It's probably Birmingham's turn for people to turn up at whatever hotel they have booked. Don't read too much into that, because locally recruited Brummies won't necessarily fly into BHX.

I think BHX has to increase the passenger load and yields before anymore expansion happens.

[bazzab68]

They code share and route px via bhx onwards to both DUS and MUC on the morning LH departures! Generally only 2-3 px but the other day it was over 30 odd onwards! Shows how code sharing on routes works..

Regards

Barry

[GayFriendly]

Thanks for the info guys, am amazed that pax route through BHX to get from EWR to MUC and DUS but there you go! I knew they were both *Alliance but didn't think this would be a priority codeshare route for them, but as they say, every little helps!

Be interesting to see if Mahan turn up tonight........

Thanks for the heads up on EK recruitment, might go down and give it a go ;)

[Monty Gordo]

While the past week or so has seen some encouraging news, particularly with regard to route development by ZB and LH, and earlier with Baby this must be tinged with disappointment at S12 plans by Flybe.

While they have retained most if not all of their 'holiday' routes, both Bordeaux and Toulouse have been dropped. Both the latter two cities are major business communities in France and it must be viewed with concern that they are now no longer figuring on the Flybe timetable.

It is to be hoped that other airlines see this and take advantage of what I would think would be valuable 'business' routes. Long term, I believe both could perform well.

Maybe Baby could be tempted back into Bordeaux....

[Cyrano]

Thanks for the info guys, am amazed that pax route through BHX to get from EWR to MUC and DUS but there you go!
It's not a priority, and most of the time the numbers connecting will be low (naturally, if direct flights are available), but every so often, for whatever reason, there will be blips in demand and thus less capacity available on the direct flight, so - because of revenue management - prices on the direct flight will be higher than on the connecting flight. Therefore Joe Bloggs in New Jersey, who's trying to book a ticket to Munich on Star Alliance for that particular day, will find he has a choice of the direct flight at $900 or the connection via BHX at $700 (for example) and he'll go for the cheaper alternative.

In general this traffic will be made up of price-sensitive passengers choosing the cheapest routing. It's not US tourists who really want to check out the Balti Triangle en route to the Oktoberfest... ;)

As Airhumberside mentioned earlier, this was also the case when SNN-CDG operated. There were passengers routing CDG-SNN-JFK despite the large number of direct CDG-JFK flights. Only a few, but Every Little Helps.

[scott737]

Thanks to OltonPete for working out the schedules on Flybe's French regional routes from BHX for '12.

I'm not sure if the glass is half-empty or half-full. Initially when next summer's timetable appeared, it seemed as though there would be no French routes (save CDG and Avignon) from BHX next summer. So the re-instatement of another 4 is at least positive, even if the frequencies are reduced from this year.

It is, I agree, odd that Bordeaux and Toulouse are left out. But I'm sure I read somewhere a while ago that Air France were due to base Airbuses at those airports - along with Nice - to operate point-to-point services from, instead of everything routing via Paris or with Brit Air or Regional. Is it out of the question that BHX may feature in those plans? Or is this entirely wishful thinking?

Scott

[OltonPete]

scott737

I have checked the CAA stats and BOD was reasonable and beat Bergerac
the months it operated and I can only assume yields were lower. Air France are indeed rumoured to open a Bordeaux base but the latest it will be scaled down from the A32S to E190's. You would think flybe would try a code-share on a Q400 or once they materialise the 175. Toulouse I think will be 320's and again if anything at all in the future, a code-share on flybe metal?

Ryanair 2012 - no dobut more adjustments to come

Still looking like four based with possibly one new routes due cutbacks on
existing services? The latest to be released are: -

Tenerife Tu/Th/Sa down one from last summer (Wed gone)

Reus Wed/Su down one from last summer (Fri gone)

Montpellier Mo/Fr down one/two from last summer (Wed all summer & Sat high
summer)

Faro - Tu/Th/Sa down one (no Wed) all Faro based aircraft

Bydgoszcz Tu/Th/Sa - same

One Sunday Dublin removed back to two and one Saturday Malaga removed back to daily.

Girona is looking like it will be Su/Wed/Fri and Alicante is rumoured to be
daily.

Assuming they operate with BHX based aircraft then the gaps are: -

Monday none

Tuesday Tue afternoon (aircraft sat on the ground this summer)

Wednesday evening and afternoon

Thursday Afternoon & evening (aircraft sat on the ground in the afternoon this
summer)

Friday evening or afternoon

Saturday - Potentially two Saturday evening or one morning one evening

Sunday - No gaps.

Pete

[crewmeal]

This morning I went to collect a friend and parked in the short stay car park at 8.15 Delay in getting the bags as the belt hadn't even started with everyone waiting around.

Result 21 minutes - £7. Why does this airport take great delight in making waiting for passengers an absolute misery?

[Monty Gordo]

Having been caught in this trap myself I now adopt a different and cheaper strategy.

If I am picking up I wait for a text from the passenger to say they have collected their bags and that they are making their way to the rail station via the overhead link.

Parked away from the airport I then drive in and pick them up in the rail station car park.

I even think there is 20 minutes free parking there if you need it...

[ssflyer]

Like MG, I park up locally and ensure the Pax I am collecting has collected all their luggage and are on the way out (quick mobile call) and by the time they are over the road and in the ST carpark I am on the way.

[delta154]

Rumours that Comtel have gone under already. All flights cancelled since Friday and passengers being refused a refund. Are we shocked?

[CabinCrewe]

Website still accepting bookings. ATOL protected if not

[jetsgo]

Just because the airline has canx 2 flights does not mean they have gone under!

Having said that it does not look good for the future.

[delta154]

Actuallythey have cancelled 3 in a row so far, Friday sat and tonight. Wonder if tomorrows will operate?

[nigel osborne]

Just checked BHX website and Comtel not showing in the drop down box for next 48hrs arriving or departing.:{

At least they did more than a handful of flts,which is a few more than the other micky mousers to ATQ out of BHX in recent years !:}

Nigel

[S78]

Looks like Comtel have sorted out their problems and are playing catch-up with any stranded pax - there are 2 inbound COE flights today.

[crewmeal]

And who is going to trust this outfit for the future? After the past week's shenanigans I cannot see people risking their cash. For a few £££ more EK would be the better bet.

[Centre cities]

Reference the cancelled flights who had the problem. Was it Comtel or was it the carrier that operates the flights. Has any one any idea. There is a world of difference.


Centre cities

[GayFriendly]

No evidence of Comtel on todays BHX live arrivals/departures site apart from an 0915 arrival this morning which at 1450 as I write is simply marked as delayed......

ZB announce five new (ish!) routes then BE go and drop BOD and TLS and reduce frequencies most of their French flights for next summer

LH announce BER then Comtel goes tits up and VIE/ATQ disappears

Its always a step forward, two back when it comes to routes at BHX, they never seem to gain a critical mass of sustained new route development, I give up!

[chinapattern]

In fairness, are any of us surprised that Comtel appear to have gone t&%s up? It amazes me how so many airlines have tried and failed at this route, even though Air India proved how successful it can be. Maybe this is just a glitch, but judging by some of the reviews I’ve read I can’t see it lasting, word of mouth is very strong in the Indian community and if I were flying to Amritsar then I'd go from Heathrow.

I also think BHX really should take some of the flack for this. I know they have no control over the running of the airline, but in one breath they want to promote the airport as a first class facility and gateway to the world, then they go and allow cowboy operations like this. Are they really that desperate for new routes? It really does them no favours. I’m just hoping that this new guy is doing all he can possibly do to get QR here and then at least ATQ would be linked with a first class carrier.

[Centre cities]

There are 2 arrivals shown for today, one delayed from this morning, no surpise there, and the other due this evening. The proof of the pudding is if these fkights operate before they are written off and consigned to a short period of history.

No one has answered my previous query - is this a Comtel or a Mint problem.


Centre cities

[delta154]

Well, the Vienna arrivals/departures only shows the evening Comtel, which is delayed to 22:30.

Not sure if its a Mint problem or Comtel, but either way its the latter that is having its name dragged through the dirt, which isn't good if they intend to go on.

[Monty Gordo]

While the BHX home site shows an arrival at 2000 from Vienna this evening, a quick check of Vienna Airport arrivals/departures shows neither Comtel or departures for BHX........

[delta154]

While the BHX home site shows an arrival at 2000 from Vienna this evening, a quick check of Vienna Airport arrivals/departures shows neither Comtel or departures for BHX........

It is on there, just use the 'destination' search funtion on the site (well, it was there 5 minutes ago anyway).

Taken off Vienna site:

19:00 COE732 Birmingham Comtel Air Verspätet 22:30 Details

[ATNotts]

Chinapattern:

The problem is that BHX cannot disallow a carrier to operate through BHX. Imagine the furore if BHX decided to bar one carrier and promote another onthe same route - the legal industry would have a field day.

The problem lies with the people to choose to book with such fly by night carriers.

It was reported that a suspect travel agent who was up before the beak last week for selling bogus trips to Mecca got away with it for so long because the "community" didn't want to shop one of their own. Given that sort of mindset in the ethnic communities in Birmingham it's hardly a surprise that so many iffy operators seem to be able to so easily fleece their customers, and at the same time drag the reputation of BHX through the mire.

[delta154]

The problem is that BHX cannot disallow a carrier to operate through BHX

I can see where the the frustration lies.

BHX is trying desperately to increase its route structure, but with airlines like Hellenic Imperial, Air Shylet and now Comtel, as well as dismal charter ops from those like Skywings and the axe of uncertainty hanging over bmi baby it seems like the fortunes need to change.

It seems the appointment of the new routes guy has helped, as BHX has gained the new Monarch routes, LH to Berlin and whilst not to do with the new guy, extra routes from bmi baby. Hopefully more of the same will follow for 2012. The murmours surrounding ORD seem positive and hopefully IB will be persuaded to serve Madrid.

The problem with ATQ is that it is a well used route but getting the right carrier on the route is tricky. It seems AI is not interested at all, Kingfisher in dire straits and Jet not looking to move into the UK beyond LHR. There are not really any UK carriers to do it, as hell will freeze over before BA serve it, Virgin only seem to do leisure routes outside of LHR and bmi are being sold to BA.
Could someone like Monarch be really brave and try the route? Unlikely but, you see why the route has been left to the carriers like Comtel and Air Shylet

[OltonPete]

Tonight's Comtel Air is airborne Vienna

Monty Gordo The Vienna website is not the best

Monarch

As I suspected the second Sunday Malaga has gone to make just the
seven based! I just hope the new charter flights are not cut to get it
back to six.

The other missing gap was Friday and the inbound Bodrum is now showing
23.00 and I suspect this has been moved from a night flight although the
departure from BHX is still 20.50. I believe the IT has not caught up with
the schedule unless it is an aircraft swap in Bodrum.

That should be that, unless they add any night flights. The high-season
Tuesday Tenerife is still showing at 20.00 when there is no based aircraft
around so I assume still some slight adjustments to come.

GF - I would say three steps forward and 1/2 back :), Bordeaux is disappointing but not too many rotations have been lost from the flybe schedule. I would say about six - seven June rotations a week and a few more in July. Basically they seem to have made way for Inverness which
switched back to a BHX based aircraft in September.

Pete

[Dalbir]

Comtel Air has abandoned hundreds of passengers in India

Sky Jet Ltd
46 Victoria Road,
Surbiton,
Surrey,
KT6 4JL
England U.K.
Telephone:0845 230 4565

I telephoned these 15/11/11 after being unable to contact Mr Shah who is the owner and what the guy on the other end said was quite interesting and diabolical thing to say

I asked "why are you treating passengers like cattle"
reply : "they are cattle" then he started giggling like a little girl
I then started swearing at him at which point he cut me off
I then telephoned back no answer
Withheld my number and called back the same guy picked up the and I said give me Mr Shah's mobile number
reply: "he does not have a mobile and there would be no point because he is proberbly in a casino spending the money right now"
Asked him for his name he refused i persisted he said "my name is Raj" bull**** i think

How is it that trading standards do not know of this company and its attitudes towards customers, not answering call when there is an absolute need to do so

Takhar Travel Ltd
2 High Street
Smethwick
Warley
West Midlands
B66 1DX
0121 565 5990
07831 648127

Is where i purchased my tickets from, Mr Takhar was no where to be found was not answering any calls but did finally call me at 7:00pm after i refused to leave his shop until he came to speak to me and explain what is going on and he planned to do about it

and then we have a Mr Sidhu 07973384811 who is also not answering his phone who he is in all this mess i don't know, but i have been informed that he is involved

Staff at Amritsar Airport have been less than helpful IE: 12 month old baby unable to make provision for milk, people left hungry, no information given to people, tricking people to leave the hotels with the promise of the flight resuming,

I personally will never fly into Amritsar Airport it is a shameful way to treat travelers who in most cases are far away from home stranded through no fault of their own, Shameful

The good news is at least now it is being reported on the Sikh channel and express and star front page today

next stage is prosecution of those involved including the head of the airline involved in this corporate greed, someone somewhere has done a runner with the ticket money that's what i think, the pilot apparently got arrested with around £30000 in cash on him

[Chidken Sangwich]

Dalbir - don't waste your time with Trading Standards.

Give the CAA ATOL section a call on 0207 453 6424. They will be VERY interested to hear from you.

[chinapattern]

Passengers had to pay £19k to fly home « Express & Star (http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2011/11/16/passengers-had-to-pay-19k-to-fly-home/)

[GayFriendly]

What an appalling story from Dalbir. The death knell for the latest in a long string of shabby outfits on this route has surely sounded, word travels fast around the Indian community using this route - I had got high hopes when they started but yet again the ATQ route has come crashing down and creates another embarrassment for BHX.......shameful. Good luck to those still stranded or who have outstanding bookings, you're going to (according to media reports at least) need it

At least there are still connections to ATQ with T5, am sure there is demand for another (proper airline) to join them, I wonder if Uzbekistan would ever consider relaunching from BHX as they offered good connections to ATQ? Didn't they once also do a TAS-BHX-JFK routing on a 767 in the dim and distant past?

[Dalbir]

I contacted CAA, someone called Phil Pearse left message for him yesterday and left a message today hasn't even had the decency to call me back, and it our taxes that pay their wages, as far as i am concerned he should hand in his notice
absolute waste of time as far as i am concerns.
Lets see what these guys would do if it was their kids in this situation

[Monty Gordo]

With security uppermost in everybody's mind at the present, the chilling scene at Luton Airport this morning should send a shudder down our spines.

A man, clearly deranged and naked, was creating a disturbance in the departures hall. What is chilling though, is that it took a full 10 minutes before the police arrived.

This man was never more than three - four feet away from his case/bag on the floor and no-one of the aiport staff considered it prudent to get that out of the way.

Clearly deranged, what could he have had in that case. It does not bear thinking about.

We must all hope that security, especially with the police in mind, is much sharper at BHX.

[nigel osborne]

Monty Gordo,

Not sure how a naked mentally ill man equates to your assumption of possibly being a terrorist having a bomb in his bag.:suspect: Never heard of a naked terrorist yet ?:confused:

I don't see it as chilling at all.

A bit disturbing yes, but nothing more than that.

Nigel

[Aero Mad]

Monty Gordo,

If you're chilled by that, I would suggest you turn your heating off a little more frequently.

[Monde]

From a mate who knows these things . The whole Comtel thing is just an AOC flag of convenience ,as the guys behind them are the old lot from the defunct Air Slovakia (who used to operate the route). Worth steering clear!

[OltonPete]

Source: CAA

October 2011 763246 -3.7% rolling year 8586782 -0.6%

ATM's 7345 -4.6% rolling year 83809 -2.6%

Disappointing but the finger is being pointed at charter pax
and I have never known so many IT flights end early with
only Rhodes bucking the trend.

In fact most scheduled business routes were up and leisure
was okay in general.

Turkish Airlines is the big plus at +41% 5649 average 123 nearly 80%.

Hamburg was down 29%, Dubai 6% and Paris 10% due to the
reduced rotations. Newark was down as well but less rotations
with load factor a stunning 91%. Islamabad was down but again
less rotations (due Hajj) and actually averaged over 300 per flight.

Pete

[Dalbir]

As far as i can work out Takhar Travel is a ticket selling agent for Skyjet, Takhar signed a contract with skyjet on 2 june 2011 to sell comtel tickets
and in the contract it states that Takahr would be operation under Astonbury Ltd ATOL registration

I also now have proof ie: bank statements showing that Takhar made around £100,000 pounds payments in cash to skyjet since 28 Oct 2011 to 11 Nov 2011 and also Takhar has also told me that he has been making regular payments to Skyjet

As for Skyjet i think they are the ones that need to be contacted urgently to find out if they have then passed those payments on to Comtel as another post say the guys behind Comtel and Skyjet have been behind other airlines in the past that the same thing happened

The directors of both these companies need to be investigated as a whole heap of money seems to have just disapeared when that happens nobody knows at the moment

Because Takhar sold the majority of the tickets he has become the fall guy, stinks of setup to me

[crewmeal]

As for Skyjet i think they are the ones that need to be contacted urgently to find out if they have then passed those payments on to Comtel as another post say the guys behind Comtel and Skyjet have been behind other airlines in the past that the same thing happened

According to the press last night Skyjet have filed for bankruptcy. If that's the case then no one will ever get money back unless they paid by credit card directly to them and NOT Takhar.

[Evanelpus]

From a mate who knows these things . The whole Comtel thing is just an AOC flag of convenience

Wow, you don't say, I'd never have guessed:ugh:

It's the old saying coming back to bite you. If it sounds too good to be true, chances are, it is. What did these people think they were getting for their money? A brand new executive equipped jet with 5 star luxury food included? They knew the normal cost of a fare to the destination but were suckered by a rogue operator who offered them a 'great' deal.

What amazes me is that they can collect nearly 20,000 in cash from the passengers on board. I'm lucky if I've got a tenner on me on the return flight.

[Monde]

Evan - if you had bothered to read my whole post you would hopefully have understood the point i was trying to make. It is the same lot of characters masquerading as Comtel (and local sikh's) that ran Air Slovakia until they too , went bust last year - i think these are the real villains here , but this "nugget"is being overlooked by the lot of you!

[Evanelpus]

Monde, I also think you missed the irony in my post.

A bunch of tight arses who could afford to stump up for the fare with a reputable airline but chose not to and could then collectively find loadsa dosh when the hot and smelly hit the fan.

I've got no sympathy for any of them, they got what they deserved.

[hammerb32]

Evaneplus,

The vast majority of UK consumers will shop around and take the least expensive option, be it clothes, holidays or food. How do you think Easyjet and Ryanair have become succesful, me thinks you need to venture into the real world a little.

[Monde]

I' ll give you that re irony Evan !:)And you are correct re the tight arses , should've gone Air India!

[GayFriendly]

Disappointing but the finger is being pointed at charter pax
and I have never known so many IT flights end early with
only Rhodes bucking the trend.



OP surely this must also be the case at other UK airports like EMA but they have managed to record an increase in pax numbers? Although scheduled routes at BHX appear on your figures to be holding up, I still say there is a vast amount of leakage from the region which hopefully will be partially re-addressed slightly with the new/reintroduced routes announced for next summer. Just as an example four of my colleagues (plus families, in total 18 passengers) who all live in Warwick and Leamington are flying away for Christmas (to MAD, HAM, NCE and KRK), none of them are using BHX because of lack of direct flights and/or price. It would seem that many are still prepared to drive miles to another airport get a cheap direct flight than pay a bit more, fly from BHX and change en route.......I guess thats the problem of being located slap bang in the middle of the country with good motorway links elsewhere!

[Evanelpus]

The vast majority of UK consumers will shop around and take the least expensive option, be it clothes, holidays or food. How do you think Easyjet and Ryanair have become succesful, me thinks you need to venture into the real world a little.

You can't equate the likes of Easy/Ryan with a bunch of shark travel agent type salesman. Bottom line, if I need to keep repeating myself, is they got ripped off because the deal that sounded too good to be true, was.

What is so difficult that you can't grasp this?

It must be so wonderful in your world, promise me you'll stay there and never venture into mine.

[hammerb32]

Evaneplus - educate me, what was the deal that was good to be true? How much were they charging for the flights? What was the avegare fare being asked for?

The equation works perfectly by the way, once upon a time Easyjet and Ryanair were unknown airlines, to the average UK consumer no different in perception and reputation that Comtel were 2 months ago.

[Wycombe]

The difference is that although EZY and RYR may have been unknown to the average UK punter in their very early days, they had the backing of the son a very wealthy Greek shipping magnate in the case of EZY and in the case of RYR the backing of Tony Ryan, who made a fortune in aircraft leasing (GPA) and allegedly set up the airline as a "hobby", at least initially.

[hammerb32]

But as I say, the average punter in the street would not know this

[Evanelpus]

Evaneplus - educate me, what was the deal that was good to be true? How much were they charging for the flights? What was the avegare fare being asked for?

Couldn't care less what the fare was. Most folks in the real world know why people from the Midlands area use flights like this to go and visit family and friends. If you don't, I feel sorry for you.

[Centre cities]

The in's and out's of the result of the Comtel situation is that the flights were booked by the passengers in good faith in what is a highly regulated industry and they have been let down no matter what the fare was and I bet it was not that cheep either.


Centre cities

[hammerb32]

Pity, when you said the deal was too good to be true I assumed you knew what you were talking about, clearly not. Maybe you can now educate me on why the Midlands is no longer the real world and why it is that folk from the midlands are attracted to such flights? Or are you making this up as well?

[Evanelpus]

when you said the deal was too good to be true I assumed you knew what you were talking about, clearly not.

Read my OP and I said IF it was too good to be true.

You obviously have some hidden agenda here and you are becoming boring so be a good fellow and get matron to give you your medication.

Numpty!

[ATNotts]

The drift of some posts here would seem to suggest that it's OK for (ethnic) Brits to look for a bargain fare, but if the the bargain hunting punters are destined for the Indian subcontinent they are worthy of abuse and no sympathy whatsoever.

This smacks of thinly disguised racism, for which I think there is no place on Pprune.

Mods. can we close this discussion?

[Daza]

ATNotts wrote
This smacks of thinly disguised racism, for which I think there is no place on PPRuNe.

I totally agree! :D

[crewmeal]

This smacks of thinly disguised racism, for which I think there is no place on Pprune.

What rubbish!! Where has there been a suggestion of racism?? The story here has been about an agent(s) ripping off passengers. The fact it is an Asian agency has nothing to do with it. What about all the other agencies that have gone during this summer. They were what holidaymakers thought were perfectly normal agents.

The moral of this is if it isn't ATOL protected then you take a gamble. Same as buying goods off ebay, you take your chance!

As suggested elsewhere One bent Asian business screwing another bent Asian business over a bunch of Asians wanting a cheap deal. Why is anyone either surprised or bothered ? smacks of reality here.

Regarding the whip round by the Spanish Airline it seems they were only paid for the ATQ-VIE sector. What was the alternative, off load and position the aircraft back to MAD? Which is what it did after dropping the passengers off at BHX. Then a new can of worms would be opened.

[Daza]

Thomson show a small increase in long haul flying from BHX in Winter 2012/13. Punta Cana in DR is returns along with Bridgetown from December and Cancun all through the Winter. Montego Bay and Orlando have a short season beginning in March. No EMA long-haul winter flights
A small positive! :hmm:

[PPRuNe Pop]

I believe that there are connotations hereabouts that smack of racism and it will not be abided on PPRuNe.

There will not be any further references or angst shown or the thread will be closed. It is very easy to change the subject and that is what you must do - now please.

PPP

[GayFriendly]

Have just been on their website, BHX still in drop down menu but no flight times listed (as were previously), it has also been removed from their route map. I also see that they don't fly to ATQ anymore either, although do serve DEL. Based on this I can't see that they will be back in December as rumoured? Does anyone know any different?

Daza - small positives are about as good as it gets with routes at BHX! ;)

[OltonPete]

Daza

Yes MBJ has taken a hit as that operates into December this winter. Strange
to have PUJ & BGI on the same day requiring two long-haul aircraft.

Bad news for summer 2012 as Catania has gone before it starting making this Thomson's forth new route not to start in just over a year although Djerba and others were never actually announced but were bookable. At least with the other three the Arab Spring could be blamed but not this one. The aircraft reverts to Palma and I assume flybe stood-down.

Pete

[OltonPete]

Sources: CAA the monthly passenger figure
BHX blog and libhomeradar for number of rotations

Taking the schedule flights in isolation it is difficult to think that the
figures were down but it is virtually down to charter. Schedule losses include the Mahan Air although Comtel did a good job for a few weeks, Hamburg, Newark (Wednesday flight did not operate) and Dublin was shocking (2010
in brackets). Also some load factors are higher as some seats will not be
available for sale if the middle seat is kept free in business.

Vienna 3406 (nil) - 122 per flight

Brussels 11206 (10117) - 52 pax - 61% load factor

Larnaca 5252 (7495) - 202 pax - 95%

Paphos 3148 (nil) - 175 pax - 82%

Copenhagen 7370 (6889) - 80 - 73%

Bergerac 420 (nil) - 30 pax - 38%

Biarittz nil (1874)

Lyon 3072 (2902) - 35 pax - 70%

Montpellier 2636 (nil) - 110 pax - 70%

Nice 3275 (2927) - 102 pax - 69%

Paris CDG 27490 (29073) - 80 pax -75%

Dusseldorf 15122 (14858) - 44 pax - 53%

Frankfurt 24127 (23314) - 97 pax - 64%

Hamburg 2094 (2942) - 37 pax 48%

Hanover 5428 (4804) - 54 pax - 70%

Munich 12280 (10179) - 74 pax - 68%

Niederheim nil (3885)

Stuttgart 3817 (3357) - 41 pax - 52%

Cork 6574 (6235) - 53 pax - 74%

Dublin 44637 (51294) - 127 pax - 70%

Knock 4077 (4126) - 107 pax - 72%

Shannon 2926 (2498) - 47 pax - 66%

Waterford 998 (1504) - 28 pax - 58%

Milan 4247 (2996) - 69 pax - 59%

Trieste 1942 (1971) - 120 pax - 64%

Malta 3009 (2076) - 167 pax - 88%

Amsterdam 41795 (37831) - 99 pax 73%

Faro 19601 (18894) - 158 pax - 83%

Alicante 24297 (26326) - 162 pax - 86%

Almeria 2814 (1374) - 176 pax - 82%

Girona 4100 (5475) - 158 pax - 83%

Ibiza 4159 (4110) - 160 pax - 85%

Mahon 5845 (5710) - 183 pax - 85%

Malaga 28309 (28184) - 167 pax - 87%

Murcia 7988 (9570) - 138 pax - 80%

Palma 12710 (13020) - 163 pax - 87%

Reus 3394 (3957) - 141 pax - 75%

Arrecife 10245 (8441) pax - 183 pax - 90%

Fuerteventura 6382 (3474) - 177 pax - 88%

LasPalmas 6854 (6477) - 180 pax - 89%

Tenerife 16132 (14838) - 188 pax - 92%

Gothenberg 1272 (2140) - 25 pax 55% (was two daily briefly last year)

Zurich 12166 (11676) - 65 pax - 65%

Dalaman 5028 (4495) - 193 pax - 90%

Istanbul 5649 (4019) - 123 pax - 78&

Prague 1214 (3777) - 87 pax - 58%

Kaunas 2658 (2664) - 148 pax - 78%

Bydogszcz 4183 (4175) - 161 pax - 75%

Gdansk 2913 (2914) - 162 pax - 86%

Katowice 2640 (2892) - 132 pax - 70%

Krakow /nil (4110)

Rzesnow 3054 (2982) - 170 pax - 90%

Bratislava 4260 (4290) - 164 pax - 87%

Ashkhbad 4821 (5292) - 142 pax - 75%

Tehran / nil (4081)

Dubai 39938 (42685) - 322 pax - 75%

Islamabad 7804 (8512) - 300 pax 76%

Newark 8574 (9689) - 159 pax - 91%

Pete

[Dalbir]

Evaneplus, sorry mate you have not got a clue what you are talking about

Facts 1, tickets with comtel £510 saving £40 against the next lowest priced carrier at the time.

fact 2, most people had not even heard of comtel as they only started flights on October 1st 2011 apart from the fact that Takhar Travel, Skyjet & Skyjet Travel was persuading people to try it, and if everyone had your way of thinking any new start-up would not even leave the ground because you would not give them a chance.

as far as I can make out the same names involved in Air Slovakia are behind Astonbury Ltd, if this is found out to be true trading standards needs to get on the case and carry out a proper investigation so these people and stop them doing the same again in a couple of years time

and just out of interest I will post a link to a BBC article

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Fly Air Slovakia for Punjabi experience (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6047262.stm)

what really beggars belief is how none of the owners of Astonbury Ltd / Skyjet / Skyjet Ltd have been named and shamed, are they paying someone to keep their name out of the press, Takhar Travel was only a ticketing agent and has been in all the press, maybe its true one rule for the rich and another rule for the poor

2008 Sunday Times Richlist Ranking: 1736= Worth: £42m Source of wealth: Petrol and aviation. Harjinder Singh Sidhu, 58, a Sikh businessman, amassed a fortune in London’s East End. He arrived as a teenager from the Punjab, and began as a cashier in a petrol station in Ilford. Within nine months, he had started to buy out his bosses, selling stations on to Burmah and Shell. In 2006 he bought Air Slovakia, a company with a turnover of $30m

Air Slovakia [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums (http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-247944.html)

Some People are still not being allowed to travel back as I have just had a text from a stranded passenger who tells me Amritsar Airport authorities are stopping them

[jabird]

Vienna? Who's doing that?

[ssflyer]

"Vienna? Who's doing that? "
The#346 lot(refuel/change aircraft)

[jabird]

ss, ok, I think I missed some earlier posts, will read up later.

[GayFriendly]

Vienna? Who's doing that?


No one any more! ;) There's a few posts to catch up on, happy reading!

[chinapattern]

You can't help but laugh! Over on Skyscrapercity Hassan13 is launching a petition to re-instate flights between BHX and ORD and then the next post states CO/UA are dropping EWR to x5 weekly in April.

While most are suggesting it's the beginning of the end for BHX-EWR, I am remaining slighly hopeful that they might be opting for a similar strategy that they've just done at MAN - dropping the 2nd MAN-EWR and launching a new MAN-IAD in it's place. Could CO/UA be planning on dropping a few BHX-EWR frequencies but launching say a x5 weekly BHX-ORD to compliment it? Yes I know, clutching at straws!

[OltonPete]

Is this fact or just somebody checking GDS or the Continental website finding
the service cancelled on Easter Sunday and making assumptions.

I seem to be able to find six a week bookable the following week and daily from May.

Just four flights this week - panic, oh no just Thanksgiving.

Hopefully not true but it is tough times and when the 757's retire what then?

Seen a couple posts elsewhere stating no BHX-ORD by United in 2012?

Pete

[Copenhagen]

Amadeus has UA daily to BHX next summer

UA/CO 26 EWR 19:05 BHX 07:10 +1 752 0 1234567 01 May 22 Sep


And six weekly this winter

UA/CO 26 EWR 19:03 BHX 07:10 +1 752 0 1-34567 25 Dec 09 Mar

except for a part of April

UA/CO 26 EWR 19:05 BHX 07:10 +1 752 0 1---567 08 Apr 14 Apr

[ssflyer]

OP and others.
Still no flights loaded post April to GRO (and to/from GRO to other UK airports)
Presume this is due to backlog/delay due to Ryanair/Reus/Girona contract.
Any news/confirmation of when they will be on the system (good old Jamie on the FR forum says there is a real logjam)

[ssflyer]

Flights to Girona are now loaded for Summer 2012 (W,F,Su as advised by OP) but a few samples I ran through their awful new booking system show they are really pricey compared to 2011.
Hobsons choice for the route but I will wait for the offers.

[Sal73x]

Hi, can anyone tell me what's the situation for the BHX-CTA?
Any flights planned for the summer 12?
Thanks

[GayFriendly]

AFAIK it has been cancelled along with RAK - there also seem to be a few reductions on other Med and Canaries routes from BHX by TOM for summer 2012, perhaps they are expecting everyone to stay at home to watch the Olympics? Doh, I have just given the PR team a new excuse to explain away falling pax numbers ;)

[OltonPete]

ssflyer

Cheers I had noticed it Monday night but forgot to post it. Lovely Sunday evening arrival time in GRO! This leaves just Alicante to be released out of last years destinations and still some gaps to fill, which should see increases in frequencies or the more likely at least one new route.

I really can't see them leaving an aircraft on the ground again for five hours on a Tuesday and Thursday as they did this summer but I suppose with FR you never know. I thought extra Girona's might have gone into the Tue/Thu gap to put pressure on baby's Barcelona.

However at present it has been Monarch adding frequencies on routes they compete with Ryanair (PMI/ALC/LPA/IBZ/ACE).

Sal73x

Yes I posted this last week but I am unsure how long it has been pulled. I was interested in using it until I saw the imaginative prices :eek:. The schedule at present appears to be five aircraft still next summer with the 763 for a few days but worrying signs.

I noticed today that the extra Las Palmas in place of Luxor never started, the extra Friday Tenerife in place Hurghada never started either plus as GF mentioned RAK never saw the light of day either. They no longer use their own aircraft on FUE with the March and April flights not showing at all in the timetable and summer 2012 is on Thomas Cook.

Strangely enough the Thomas Cook schedule is fairly well in tact - at present

Pete

[Sal73x]

Thanks Pete!
Thomson's prices for flights to Sicily have always been futuristic :*
and I immagine that the 5 763 are all for the TOs?

I am actually surprised that they planned for 763. On the MAN-CTA
it is few years that I haven't seen one and for the last 3 years they use a 737.

[ssflyer]

What are the chances of an extra Sunday flight, as available in 2011.
Is there a market/time slot? I used their early pm flight twice (in May and September) and it was pretty full.

[OltonPete]

ssflyer

I would say unlikely unless they restart the evening flights which they used to do several years ago. Sunday is unusual as it actually still requires eight aircraft based which I can't believe will happen when Monday - Saturday is six based.

Sunday should be seven based and all it would require is one afternoon flight to be put back a couple of hours to make this happen.

However it is clear that the schedule is not finalised with the high season Tuesday TFS departing at 20.00 when the first aircraft back is about 21.10.

Then there is the Friday Bodrum departing at 20.50 but arriving back at 23.00
and that would be unusual unless an aircraft change with another base.

Another case of never say never.

Ryanair at present is one AGP frequency down with the Saturday morning not on sale but BMI Baby is back to daily from late May.

Pete

[FQTLSteve]

Interesting to note that Manchester have just posted latest pax figs and they have had 7 months of consecutive growth. Why is BHX in such terminal decline?

[Bagso]

......er hang on

why on earth would you compare BHX to MAN, both cities and their catchment are totally different as described on here multople times...!

The Midlands is in terminal decline whilst the North West and especially Greater Manchester is vibrant and growing rapidly.

The comparison is misplaced, by all means compare BHX to say BRS etc but not Manchester , sorry different league !

[Burpbot]

Bagso! BRI?? Whats Palese, Bari airport got to do with anything?

Having lived and worked at both BHX and MAN I can confirm BHX far more vibrant and pleasant place to live and work. It always makes me chuckle when Mancs claim to be the second city! Take a flight over the two MAN dont come close as a city! But fair enough the airport has been invested in and developed by multiple councils of the north west does have a larger busier airport. The terminal decline at BHX is in my opinion is due to very poor management and planning! Diamond house springs to mind as a classic white elephant.

[OltonPete]

Bagso

What has Bari got to do with it, an Italian airport with 3.3 million pax per annum?

Just don't it really isn't worth it.

FQTLSteve

Depends on how you look at things, Manchester's last seven months have been good but it is still patchy. Their October passenger throughput almost beat their 1998 figure......... At least BHX is at 2001-2002 levels.

For those of us who live in the area will know things are tough and the airports performance is quite good considering although until recently their was little choice on some European service unless you like going via/

I am not sure if there will be any fall-out from the Thomas Cook problems but Monarch and Baby to a lesser extent will turn things around in 2012 or at least steady the ship.

Pete

[delta154]

Depends on how you look at things, Manchester's last seven months have been good but it is still patchy. Their October passenger throughput almost beat their 1998 figure......... At least BHX is at 2001-2002 levels

Pete, you are passionate about BHX and I applaud that. People slag off an airport when the times are bad but then claim to support it when times are good, however you seem to have stuck by BHX through thick and thin.

Times are getting better at BHX with extra Monarch, baby and Lufthansa flights, but, personally I wouldn't say 7 consecutive months of growth is 'patchy' compared to an airport that is once again in decline, and even if MAN is still at 1998 levels, to see that it has more pax than BHX despite being at 2002 levels show the gap between the 2 airports is very large indeed.

[Bagso]

.....and I for one am sick of the comparisons.

Why oh why do supporters of BHX keep comparing it to Manchester ?

It's as if there is a feeling that there is some divine right that because Manchester is doing OK Birmingham should also be doing likewise.

The argument escapes me.

I have have put forward numerous examples of why Manchester is expanding on previous occasions, every single time the arguments are put down, the last time the BHX MOD even stepped in and deleted the thread !

.... well hang on' if you don't like the answers please please refrain from constant misguided comparisons !

BHX MOD ...if this is purely a BHX thread can we pull "all" future references to Manchester every single time its mentioned not just on a selective basis when the mood takes ?

Cheers !

[787Heaven]

and i for one am sick of YOUR comparisons!!!!!!!!

How dare you come on here posting your dribble!! Who do you think you are??????

MODs please please please go one step better and ban this idiot from the BHX thread. He/She does nothing but cause trouble!! Never anything constructive and always doing everything they can to wind us up!

:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Burpbot]

Bagso, MAN is bigger and busier its also had way more investment and better management! I would never compare BHX to MAN as I know having worked at both on the ground and in the air BHX is far superior to operate from! Staff West at MAN is enough to put anyone off!!

I wish both would do well! If only this backward country could look outside of London maybe the country would be Great again! But while Westminster runs the country in the same way as Willie runs our national airline then sadly nothing outside the M25 matters!! Be interesting to see what happens if the high speed rail link happens, BHX may pick up LHR expansion traffic but it may be at the cost of domestic air traffic? Who knows I wonder how different BHX or MAN will be ten years on from now? I remember both from ten years ago and although both quite different, MAN is more different!

[Centre cities]

I refer you to the mods post of the 4/9/11. Pleeaassseeee



Centre cities

[Skipness One Echo]

Mate, connecting BHX to LHR allows Brummies to use the greater choice from LHR with way less hassle.... It's a LHR win and a BHX loss. United could and would happily move to LHR arguing it was handy and er.....local. Careful what you wish for.

[hammerb32]

Not really sure how the Midlands is described to be in terminal decline, it has by a long stretch the 2nd largest economy in the UK, some 25% larger than the 3rd biggest economy, every reputable forecast suggests this will widen further over the next 20 years, indeed the forecast is for the South Coast to grow and become the 3rd largest economy.

The difference in markets between BHX and MAN is simple and it's geography, MAN is situated in the middle of 4 major urban conurbations, Merseyside, West Yorkshire, Greater Manchester and West Midlands. Add to this the significant other urban conurbations or Lancashire, Cheshire, Staffordshire and it's easy to see why the market for MAN is larger than of BHX.

[chaps2011]

The Midlands is a very big area and covers several airports i:e BHX, EMA,LTN
and MAN so it isn`t as simple as it may seem.
Manchester is a very vibrant city with a lot of things going on in that the enterprise
zone at the airport and the infastucture receiving a huge boost with tram network
by far the largest in the country and expanding at a very fast rate and now massive
modernisation on the rail network in the northwest starting as we speak.
I can`t speak for Birmingham other than I know the car industry seems to be on the up again after many years in the doldrums and long may that last as we need the industry
again.
Full marks to Olton Pete because if you can`t support your own area things are
very sad. Pete you know who I am it`s just I am having mega computer probs at present and using another email address

Ian

[OltonPete]

delta154

Cheers for that, it has been a frustrating couple of years just on a personal level when it has come to choosing holidays but taking a step a back and looking at the bigger picture, BHX has done fairly well all things considered although I might not have been saying that without the Monarch & Baby 2012 expansion.

It probably was a little cheeky to say Manchester's 2011 was patchy but all I was trying to do was put it into perspective as to where they are now compared to 1998. However it has fought back well and I have always said a thriving Manchester is a good thing for BHX as well. Quite a few new routes came after a successful introduction at Manchester (EK, AA, PK, TK, LH, SR, CO, SK, IB etc) and most survive in one format or other today other than AA
and IB.

SOE - Major worry and once the 757 bows out what happens?

chaps2011 Absolutely and I had wondered where you had gone! Hopefully just needs a bit of TLC :)

flybe 175's

On a separate note is BHX-DUS on Wednesday still down for the 175? It was showing in GDS when I last checked and it is even in the flybe connections timetable now.

Pete

[North West]

The difference in markets between BHX and MAN is simple and it's geography, MAN is situated in the middle of 4 major urban conurbations, Merseyside, West Yorkshire, Greater Manchester and West Midlands. Add to this the significant other urban conurbations or Lancashire, Cheshire, Staffordshire and it's easy to see why the market for MAN is larger than of BHX.

Very true. 70% of passenger traffic at MAN is nothing to do with Greater Manchester and 83% of all passengers though MAN are tavelling for leisure. The city of Manchester itself can be as vibrant as it wants, but the success of MAN airport is really driven by the holiday plans of Northern England and how well it competes with airports like LPL and LBA who are trying to serve their own local markets. Likewise, economic regeneration in the city of Birmingham won't change the fact that you get to LHR in under 2 hours and so BHX is competing with one of the biggest airports in the world - always an uphill battle when price and frequency are important to the customer.

[PPRuNe Pop]

OK guys. You are taking a 24hr rest while you contemplate what it is you contemplate. I am getting fed up with a the constant flow of mail to me to tell me about the BHX and MAN comparison. Its ridiculous and not worth the hassle.

When I open this thread again you will kindly avoid discussing MAN. You can do that by going to that thread so please do so.

PPP

[crewmeal]

I'm reading a lot about expansion at UK airports lately. It seems many carriers are investing in them both short haul and long haul. The one that comes to mind is Jet2 at NCL and the EK changes at MAN.

What exactly is happening at BHX that is news worthy?

[chinapattern]

What exactly is happening at BHX that is news worthy?


Some MG Rover stickers have been put on one of the airbridges! :ugh:

[Seljuk22]

AF will end LYS-BHX with the start of the summer timetable.

[Daza]

What is your source for this? BHX-LYS is bookable on AF website and Expedia/Opodo in May, June and July on various dates none stop.
Daza

[delta154]

http://www.air-journal.fr/2011-12-05...on-540378.html

The airline Brit Air has announced the closure for financial reasons three routes to Lyon , those to Prague , Birmingham and Hamburg

[johnnychips]

When you follow the above link, type 'Britair' in the search box if you get an error message. It is the top article. It's in French and says it was one of the three most loss-making routes.

[delta154]

Britair va supprimer trois routes à Lyon | Air Journal (http://www.air-journal.fr/2011-12-05-britair-va-supprimer-trois-routes-a-lyon-540378.html)

Hopefully that link will work, if not, this is the article:

The airline Brit Air has announced the closure for financial reasons three routes to Lyon , those to Prague , Birmingham and Hamburg .

The regional subsidiary of Air France has chosen to sacrifice the three roads over the loss from the airport to Lyon - Saint Exupery, after posting an annual loss of 16.4 million euros. Britair remove by April 2012 the two daily flights to Prague, leaving the low cost easyJet alone on this road. It will also cancel two daily flights to Birmingham and Hamburg, two routes where it faces no competition. A general meeting will be held this December 5, 2011, and is expected to approve next year hiring freeze NWP and agents.

The company maintains its currently non-domestic connections between Lyon and Rome, Tunis, Barcelona, ​​Amsterdam and Dusseldorf, lines Britair operated under franchise or AF Air France operated by Brit Air. In the hexagon, it also serves Toulouse, Montpellier, Limoges, Nantes, Brest, Rennes, Caen, Paris and Strasbourg.

Recall that Brit, based in Morlaix, now operates a fleet composed entirely of Bombardier CRJ 50 to 100 seats, its last Fokker 100 has made ​​its final flight between October 20, 2011 Clermont-Ferrand and Orly

[OltonPete]

This has been rumoured for a few days now but with no link
to an article.

Very disappointing in as much as it is still being sold!!!!!

If the route has gone how difficult is it to take off sale?

Probably this would be one of the most disappointing losses
in the last three years, as it is a niche route and not I would
say as inevitable as Air Malta and Cyprus or for that matter
US Air.

However I think it would be naive of me to say that
I expected it to carry on in its present format, as the CRJ1's
are reducing all the time and many have stated the 50 seat
jet market is shot (although the buyers of BMIR obviously
would disagree!!).

The CRJ7 is too big at twice daily and the only thing you could
say that you would have hoped a daily CRJ7 might have been
tried (A days business from the UK is not possible now) or try
and hive it off to flybe code-share.

I wonder if flybe will consider a once daily 10.30 out 15.00 return
on the Q400/175 (eventually). The service has attracted between
2500 and 3500 pax per month at load factors ranging from 60% to
75% in summer. Base fares started at about £150 so not cheap but
there again neither is a 50 seat CRJ!

Out all the routes I thought at risk in 2008/9 have now gone (RE WAT,
CY, KM) except for City Airline or should I say Skyways to Gothenburg.
New owners, new broom, I hope not.

Pete

[delta154]

Probably this would be one of the most disappointing losses
in the last three years, as it is a niche route

Yes it is a disappointing loss, as I believe BHX-LYS was one of the few non Paris AF UK routes, and as you say its is especially disappointing that they didn't at least try it at daily before a total dropping.

As well as flybe being a potential candidate for replacement, maybe a route for bmi baby to pick up, as bmi regional offer it from MAN and they don't even have much of a base there.

[GayFriendly]

So yet another route goes back to 'via a hub' option only. Although both BE and WW are both very valid suggestions for a replacement carrier on BHX-LYS, I would be surprised if either do as once a route disappears at BHX it rarely seems to come back (FCO, BCN, PRG, LIS and VCE (didn't BA/Maersk do that one for a while?)) excepted. For these five, LYS is just one more to add to the list of around another 20 or so (both short and long haul) destinations that have disappeared from the departure boards at BHX to never see the light of day again!

OP I hope you are not right about GOT.......

On the plus side rumours are circulating again of a third daily EK in the future? Although only a rumour it is more likely to happen than QR or EY gracing BHX?

[delta154]

On the plus side rumours are circulating again of a third daily EK in the future? Although only a rumour it is more likely to happen than QR or EY gracing BHX?

Deffinatly more likely than QR/EY. Im lead to believe EK are awaiting a suitable 2 class A330 to run the service. They cant use the displaced MAN/LCA/FRA A330's as these are 3 class birds heading for pastures new.

[Seljuk22]

It's just in French
Britair va supprimer trois routes à Lyon | Air Journal (http://www.air-journal.fr/2011-12-05-britair-va-supprimer-trois-routes-a-lyon-540378.html)

[scott737]

I've used this route a number of occasions but some years ago now, originally when flown by Maersk, then Duo and BA Citiexpress. It was, incidentally, one of the few Duo routes taken on immediately at their closure by BA and there was only a short gap between BA pulling out of the regions and BritAir picking up the route. One would have thought that there was, therefore, money to be made on it but perhaps, as OP states, with fuel prices having increased considerably since those days, the route can't sustain a CRJ on it.

I'd have thought it was ideal for one of FlyBe's Q400s as aren't they supposed to turn a profit with relatively low load factors, assuming the yield is there? I doubt that baby would pick it up - the route seems too big for a 737 even taking into account the proximity of the skiing market in the winter season.

Here's hoping that FlyBe will look at it. Otherwise, it's hard to see who else would be interested as there is no-one else left who would operate a route such as this! It's hard not to be pessimistic but ultimately I fear this is another, long established route, consigned to the dustbin.

Scott

[ATNotts]

I would have said that to make a route such as BHX / LYS a viable option on a 50 seat aircraft you need some business related (rather than leisure) traffic.

Though I'm sure someone will tell me otherwsie I cannot think of much major West Midlands industry with close ties to in dustry in the Rhon-Alpes area. BHX / STR would be in a similar position were it not for the automotive industries in both regions.

Particular problem with French regional services is that France is very "Paris-centric" much as England is "London-centric". Many people probably couldn't place Lyon on a map, let alone find reason for going there!

[OltonPete]

The timetable has been updated with Alicante released at daily, Girona
back to four a week and Reus three.

However Murcia is off-sale at all airports.

There is a gap on a Saturday and Wednesday for such a route vacated by Tenerife (Wed) and Malaga (Sat). The Wednesday Montpellier is subbed with an extra Katowice.

The Tuesday and Thursday gap could be filled by the afternoon Dublin as could Thursday and Saturday night Dublin.

The schedule: -

Monday

1) ALC LDY MJV* *If re-instated
2) FUE KTW
3) ACE AGP
4) MLA MPL GRO

Away based Dublin x 3

Tuesday

1) ALC XXX BTS
2) PMI IBZ
3) TFS MJV*
4) GDN BZG AGP

Away based 3 x DUB and 1 x FAO (11.50/12.15)

Wednesday

1) KUN LDY KTW
2) LPA AGP
3) REU GRO PMI
4) XXX RZE

Away based 3 x DUB, 1 x ACE (11.50/12.15) and 1 x ALC (12.10/12.35)

Thursday

1) ALC TRS BTS
2) TFS AGP
3) IBZ xxx BZG
4) PMI MJV* N/S (Same last summer)

Away based 3 x DUB & 1 x FAO (11.50/12.15)

Friday

1) ALC LDY MLA
2) FUE MPL
3) ACE AGP
4) REU KTW GRO

Awayt based 3 x DUB

Saturday

1) GDN BZG AGP
2) TFS ALC
3) MJV* PMI XXX
4) XXX DUB BTS

Away based 2 x DUB and FAO (18.55/19.20)

Sunday

1) PMI IBZ
2) LPA AGP
3) KUN ALC LDY
4) RZE TRS REU

Away based 2 x DUB and 1 x GRO (19.30/19.55)

Pete

[Monty Gordo]

I wonder how long it will take First Choice to realise that their ad on the Birmingham Airport main website offers flights to Cap Verde from Brimingham Airport. Day one and counting....

Sounds like a very cold place near to Grimsby!!!

[GayFriendly]

Cap Verde from Brimingham, now that has made me laugh, it was probably written by one of my ex BTEC tourism students......

As for FR, we have to be grateful for what we have got at BHX, however I still don't understand their reticence to launch new routes from BHX, apart from MPL there hasn't been one for ages. Their schedule is very stagnant. Worryingly there are a couple of days that see very light a/c utilisation, Tues and Sun, with one a/c doing just PMI and IBZ....surely it must be a worry for BHX management that it would seem cheaper for a loco to park their planes up at BHX in between short sectors than actually fly new routes! Even Leeds has more routes than BHX now and they were only launched as a base last year against stiff competition from Jet2. There are plenty of routes from BHX that FR could have to themselves without even touching WW, ZB and BE!

Maybe they will surprise us with an additional based a/c and a raft of new routes, won't hold my breath though!

[Monty Gordo]

OP or Others in the know

Again severe angst on the Man thread re seeming inability to cope with snow problems this morning.

Was there snow in Brum, how did it cope, and have they taken in many diversions?

[OltonPete]

Monty Gordo

No snow where I am but seven diversions inbound thus far. Three from Manchester (this morning) and four easyjets in the last hour from Liverpool.

However this morning is has been stated things were tight due to the parked
up Ryanairs (nine). Unfortunately Thomson didn't get their Friday schedule
sorted (cancelled Egyptian flights) and also have two aircraft parked up so at one point there were only a hand full of stands left.

I think there are over 50 stands and some days only 200-250 movements
giving the impression there would be loads of spare stands but that is not
the case.

The AA 757 ORD-MAN was parked on 25 for a splash and dash.

Pete

[OltonPete]

Source: CAA

November 2011 546 644 +0.4%, rolling year 8588936 -0.4%

ATM's 5967 -1.8% rolling year 83682 -2.2%

I estimated 543000 so a pleasant surprise.

Before we go jumping for joy, the airport was closed for 20 hours in
November 2010 due to the citation crash.

The CAA stats show November 2010 40 flights lost (weather as well)
and 11 gained. This of course does not include cancellations.

The airport shut on a Friday at 15.30 ish and I think opened midday
Saturday and taking out some pax which would have delayed their
return I still believe 10000-12000 pax were lost plus other days due weather.

So in theory the figure is down but considering BHX's route offering
in November 2011 not too bad. I would say about 2.5% down which
is remarkably similar to Bristol, EMA, Glasgow, Liverpool & Newcastle.

Aberdeen and Manchester were the only real bright lights out of the
known figures although BHD, BFS and LCY were also up



Pete

[nigel osborne]

Monty Gordo/all.

There was no snow problems at BHX,but just like MAN, a few flakes of snow and we seem to close generally;

Today we had the American Airlines 757, Swiss 320 and a City 145 from Manchester.Then a bit later 4 Easy Jet diversions from LPL.:ok:

Nigel

[nigel osborne]

Pete,

The archive shows TEN Ryan Airs parked up all day, I must have missed one.

BHX normally just uses the remote stands for splash and dash, so with so many wretched Ryan Airs clogging the remotes, our diversion capability is severely reduced:sad:

Nigel

[boeing767]

Overview of diversions to BHX today:

08:31A SDR001 E145 SE-RAD GOTHENBURG Departed 09:51 to Manchester SDR001A08:32A AAL54 B752 N185AN CHICAGO Departed 11:02 to Manchester AAL5408:34A SWR39B A320 HB-IJD ZURICH Departed 09:39 to Zurich SWR509113:16A EZY7026 A319 G-EZIR JERSEY Departed 16:06 to Liverpool EZY902413:21A EZY68N A319 G-EZDC NICE Departed 15:54 to Liverpool EZY902313:35A EZY7042 A319 G-EZFJ PARIS CDG Departed 15:32 to Liverpool EZY902414:09A EZY204Q A319 G-EZEA BARCELONA Departed 16:03 to Liverpool EZY9025

[boeing767]

Another diversion today:
11:45A TK1993 B739 TC-JYB | Diverted enroute IST-MAN | Departed 13:11 to MAN

[OltonPete]

I can't remember too many diversions before at BHX due stray dogs :ooh:

That aircraft was only delivered through BHX the week before and although
BHX gets TK I didn't think we would see it that quickly again.

Talking of TK, I wonder if they have any plans for BHX as the service seemed
to struggle for ages until Mahan Air went and suddenly it awakens.

November 2011 Istanbul 4481 up 31% and at an average of 112 or 72% based
on 155 seats. Maybe a little low overall but strong for November and at 5 a week there must be scope for a daily service in summer at least.

Also another upgrade yesterday to an A321 and no doubt more over the holiday period.

Pete

[Monty Gordo]

OP

Is the reference to stray dogs some sort of airline code for diversions? If not, its lost on me...

[BHX2FRA]

Monty Gordo see the news report link

Flights delayed after whippet strays onto runway at Manchester Airport | Manchester Evening News - menmedia.co.uk (http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1468346_flights-delayed-after-whippet-strays-onto-runway-at-manchester-airport)

[Guest 112233]

MG t'was a stray dog at MAN - The four leggeded kind, but I've worked for a few of the other sort.

PS: I wonder if the divert had to perform a "Dog Leg" to get in ?

PPS That's enough "Doggeral"

CAT III

[Edit: Those whippits are quick: My granda raced them. It must have been on Steroids to block both RWY's] - Uncontrolled animal on an airfield - Not a clever situation.

[Monty Gordo]

Thanks for the info chaps. Just goes to prove that life's a bitch upt' north...

[FR-]

Uncontrolled animal on an airfield That will be Ryanair

:E

[OltonPete]

Source for the passenger figures: CAA

Average pax per flight: BHX blog and libhomeradar

Load Factors: planespotters.net for aircraft configurations.

I have not checked every config on planespotters.net and
have gone my own records. 2010 figures in brackets.

Some routes are down but load factors up due to the reduction
in frequencies.

DUBLIN - 45,160 up 1.2 (44606) - 123 pax - 68%
DUBAI 39,280 down -1.8 (40012) - 327 pax - 77%
AMSTERDAM 38,155 up 7.6 (35451) - 96 pax - 74%
PARIS (CHARLES DE GAULLE) 29,015 up 15.1 (25206) - 87 pax - 74%
TENERIFE (SURREINA SOFIA) 16022 down 1.5% (16267) - 178 pax 88%
ALICANTE 17204 up 12% (15389) - 169 pax - 85%
FRANKFURT MAIN 19,932 up 0.5 (19842) - 83 pax - 54%
DUSSELDORF 15,013 up 7.9 (13910) - 44 pax - 54%
ARRECIFE 6980 down 5% (7320) - 166 pax - 84%
MALAGA 11516 down 11% (12967) - 175 pax - 90%
MUNICH 12,457 up 21.2 (10279) - 78 pax - 71%
ZURICH 11,060 up 1.7 (10876) - 61 pax - 61%
BRUSSELS 10,543 up 14.8 (9187) - 46 pax - 53%
FUERTEVENTURA 3042 up 115% (1411) - 152 pax - 78%
LAS PALMAS 4984 up 6.5% (4673) - 156 pax - 78%
COPENHAGEN 7,663 up 24.1 (6177) 76 pax - 66%
ISLAMABAD 7,538 down -4.2 (7806) - 290 pax - 74%
FARO 7133 up 25% (5716) - 170 pax - 84%
CORK 6,494 up 14.2 (5686) - 54 pax - 75%
HANOVER 4215 up 8% (3939) - 54 pax - 69%
NEW YORK (NEWARK) 6,287 down -9.1 (6913) - 143 pax - 82%
ASHKHABAD 5,021 down -37.9 (8084) - 148 pax - 78%
ISTANBUL 4,481 up 30.9 (3423) - 112 pax - 72%
BYDGOSZCZ 4,264 up 2.4 (4163) - 164 pax - 87%
BRATISLAVA 4,007 down -12.4 (4280) - 154 pax - 82%
PRAGUE 3,758 up 4.4 (3598) - 117 pax - 79%
LARNACA 3,644 down 25% (4814) - 182 pax - 83%
IRELAND WEST(KNOCK) 3,451 up 15.1 (2997) - 102 pax - 69%
STUTTGART 3,204 up 23.0 (2604) - 35 pax - 45%
LYON 3,104 up 7.1 (2897) - 36 pax - 71%
SHANNON 2,952 up 31.9 (2230) - 49 pax - 69%
MALTA 2,615 up 21.0 (2162) - 163 pax - 86%
KATOWICE 2,527 down -7.9 (2743) - 140 pax - 73%
GERONA 2,518 down -25.7 (3391) - 157 pax - 83%
RZESZOW 2,501 down -7.9 (2716) - 139 pax - 74%
GDANSK 2,456 down -8.6 (2686) - 136 pax - 72%
KAUNAS 2,438 n/a 0.0 (135 pax - 72%
MILAN (MALPENSA) 1,799 down -10.7 (2015) - 41 pax - 52%
HAMBURG 1,608 down -10.5 (1796) - 38 pax - 49%
GOTEBORG 1,168 down -43.5 - 25t pax - 55%

Pete

[GayFriendly]

Thanks again for the stats OP, good to see some solid performances on some of BHX's long established routes but Newark is a worry down again by quite a percentage. Uncertainty must be hanging over this route with the refitting of UA 757s with more premium seats. It would be a huge and almost irrecoverable blow to lose it, I hope BHX are trying to keep UA sweet as best they can.

TK another star performance - it has been said that this is because they have inherited much of the flow of pax from Mahan but I see that TK don't actually fly to ATQ, they must be offering some good deals to convince pax to fly BHX-IST-DEL-change airline or overland it-ATQ? I have used TK from BHX to go to the Middle East, IST is a bit of a chaotic hub but they offer some very impressive onward connections and price wise often beat LH and AF/KL

FR routes on the face of it doing well as always just such a pity they don't seem to want to expand at BHX, i'm no fan of theirs but it would be nice to see some new routes

[NorthernCounties]

Have to bag drop tomorrow with Ryanair. Never done it before at Birmingham. Any idea how much time I should set aside for doing it? Cheers

[JSCL]

15 minutes. Queues for bag drops aren't typically that hectic around this time. Early morning flight, give it 5 mins. As the day goes on, add 5 mins for each 4 hours that pass (some logic) :)

[NorthernCounties]

I'll give it 15 minutes then, should be arriving around 16:00. Cheers JSCL! :ok:

[nigel osborne]

Peter,

A few years back they had a fox airside at BHX.Watched them chase it one morning around the airfield, three security jeeps and 4 men on foot...Impossible, three days later they took down part of a fence and shooed it through.:D

Last week there was a pheasant near the old short runway and close to the new hangar !:eek:

Nigel

[getonittt]

without going too much off topic , 4 legged deviants are not the only ones to cause the authorities headaches , some time ago , mid 80's , a drunk was found one night swinging from the prop of a parked BMA ATP !

[Burpbot]

I remember a long time ago, an Emu escaped from the hold of a canada 3000. I bet that was an amusing phone call to ops!

[OltonPete]

The mystery of the 7th based Monarch aircraft on Sundays in summer 2012
has been resolved. The new IT services to Kefalonia and Preveza are no longer bookable!!!

This should take the base down to six fully utilised aircraft (other than nights).

I don't believe BHX or Monarch every announced EFL or PVK but I was advised on Sunday on another group that they were no longer bookable I have checked with the same result.

Same source also revealed Budapest has appeared in the flybe drop-down box of the booking engine.

Lufthansa are showing the Frankfurt 733 flight as an A319 from 10/1/12 and
Munich as 3 x 195 (no CRJ9).

Air France also have more A320 upgrades in the system for January although flybe only fly the midday Paris on Monday and Friday.

Pete

[jabird]

More of a long term question than current routes:

Has anyone seen a detailed plan of the proposed HS2 station to serve BHX?

Trying to work out the practicalities of such a location - to the east of the M42 as either an interchange facility (rail to rail), or to serve the airport.

The existing people mover is approx. 400m long, to go to new location would be more like 1k, but the trains themselves might add another 400m to this. So will the people mover stop in the NEC site, then at the existing station, then the airport? Or will it just go straight to the airport? Or will there be two people movers?

Whatever the pros and cons of hs2 itself, this is relevant because the airport want this link to encourage more long haul traffic from London to justify the runway extension. Unless the people mover takes people straight into the terminal building, it might be quicker just to use the existing service, if of course they stay at current standards.

I imagine this location has been chosen to 'save' costs, but a spur or loop bringing an integrated complex under one roof (like what they have at CGN) would be more useful for rail passengers, and therefore in turn would provide a better option for the air passengers too, rather than using the DUS model, which is much more cumbersome.

[grundyhead]

Jabird, take a look at this:

http://highspeedrail.dft.gov.uk/sites/highspeedrail.dft.gov.uk/files/HS2-ARP-00-DR-RW-04225.pdf

Current proposed section that should "serve" BHX. Mono rail link to airport from station that sits somewhere between A45/M42 and Stonebridge Island.

[jabird]

GF,

I am aware of the proposed location, my question was whether or not that is really the best place to serve both the airport and rail passengers.

Whatever the pros and cons of the project itself (I'll leave that for Jetblast), neither this station, nor the Curzon St station in the city centre provide a direct platform-platform link for rail passengers. Even a short walk between buildings massively diminishes the interconnectivity such a link can provide.

Last time I even made a local journey from Coventry to Kidderminster, it was quicker to change at International, then again at Smethwick GB, rather than walk from New St to Moor St. That wasn't me being a pain, that is what National Rail advised.

Sure, it would cost more to bring hs2 directly in to International station - and space is limited, but it is there, perhaps for a track either side of the current station. This would also enable trains to run from Wolverhampton onto hs2. If a loop ran back onto hs2 in addition to the spur, you would only need one station, there would be some demolition to rejoin hs2, but there would be savings by not having the extra people mover link, and if they followed the Hong Kong model, they could release some land for higher rise development to replace the lower rise which might be lost.

Otherwise, BHX ends joining JFK with the dubious distinction of being the only airports in the world (at least that I know of) to be served by two offsite stations - at least with DUS, there is a suburban station underneath the terminal. I suppose some will say two remote station are better than none.

[FlyOften]

I've not commented for a while, firstly OltonPete, many thanks for your analysis of trafic and comments.

Regarding the link from HS2, if they replecate the link in Paris from Antony to Orly then thay cann't go too far wrong. Its a great high speed low capacity link.

A general observation is that BHX is finally receiving proper service (i.e. 737/A320/MD80) planes on the trunk EU capital routes. The traffic on these routes has increased accordingly and long may it continue.

I am concerned with the United EWR link especially as my family are booked on it via EWR to Floriday next easter. We have travelled long haul a few times in recent years and it is always much more expensive to the USA from BHX than LHR, even against a 757 from LHR. As least Emirates seem to keep the same prices between MAN/BHX/LHR. United must make a load on this route based on the prices?

[jabird]

Flyoften:

I am concerned with the United EWR link especially as my family are booked on it via EWR to Floriday next easter. We have travelled long haul a few times in recent years and it is always much more expensive to the USA from BHX than LHR, even against a 757 from LHR. As least Emirates seem to keep the same prices between MAN/BHX/LHR. United must make a load on this route based on the prices?

There aren't many LH 757's ex LHR - iirc, wasn't CLE a 757, short lived following move from LGW? So you would be comparing a direct with a change en-route - the directs are more profitable as yields better, but having the change usually costs them more to operate.

Also, for Florida, is it not usually cheaper on one of the leisure players direct to SFB?

Emirates are different kettle of fish - see the Etihad / Air Berlin thread for a similar story. Much lower cost base in Dubai compared to Europe, they use this to their advantage, so similar fares wherever you depart from.


Re: airport station - what you describe is not unlike the arrangement at the present station, except the OrlyVAL needs to serve two terminals. Also, the high speed line goes through CDG, and that is a different story.

I know the airport is keen to push the whole hs2 project, as they see it as key to the long term growth of BHX, especially if the government keeps twiddling its thumbs over capacity in the southeast. But ultimately, I think that will be resolved, and BHX will look less appealing, especially if there is a £100+ return rail fare to add on to the flight price. Yet BHX can still serve a huge range of places within the Midlands and further afield, making it an important rail hub in its own right, not just somewhere on the end of the line, like most airport rail stations are. Therefore, from a rail point of view, two stations off site doesn't make sense if they could provide all the interchanging on one site, and as Curzon St will also be an end station, the case for a proper interchange at International becomes even stronger. This then means more trains serve a combined station, better for airport passengers.

Also, being purely cynical, how much car parking can they squeeze on a greenbelt site? If one station is used on the current site, BHX can sell parking space to rail users, something that is less appealing if they have to jump one one train to catch another.

[crewmeal]

So by the time you arrive at this new HS2 station, got your bags off the train, found your way to the new 'capsule' that will take you to the airport (possibly via the NEC) how much time have you saved as opposed the the current way?

Now if you start your journey at the new HS2 station catch your train direct to LHR then there would be considerable time saving. LHR would be the benefactors because they would be taking business away from BHX with their cheaper fares and choice of destinations.

Anyone thought of the costs of traveling on HS2?

[jabird]

Crewmeal,

At present hs2, won't serve LHR directly, so you'd still need a change at Old Oak Common, and even then, xrail still doesn't go to T5. We don't know if LHR Express will make a stop at OOC, nor do we know what the stopping patterns would be on hs2.

Afaik, the cost of tickets will be 'in-line' with current fares, although this doesn't explain how even part of the capital costs of the line would be paid for, nor how the then holder of the WCML franchise would react to what would surely be unfair competition if track access on the new line was 'given away' below a fairer market rate - although the WCML itself is also still subsidised at present (so I understand), even if VT do turn a small operating profit in the region of £2-3 per passenger.

So yes, in terms of routing, hs2 could lose BHX many more passengers than it gains them, but that is assuming (a) that LHR will have room to take them and (b) anyone from further north speeds straight past BHX and onto LHR, which might not be the case.

Either way, I'd see hs2 as a big gamble at best from this perspective - even with the runway extension, how many high yield lh routes will be added?

If the station was combined with the current one, there would at least be a much better chance of gaining on the parking revenue, whichever airport passengers end up flying from, if they fly at all.

[getonittt]

Either way, I'd see hs2 as a big gamble

I'd see it as dead in the water . I'm being realistic in saying that very few people are going to use HS2 to travel to London or V.V. to catch a flight. They are going to use road transport (coach or car) . Use the money to improve these (runway extension/better road links) We already have rail links, instead of getting there faster just get an earlier train .

[jabird]

getonitt,

Despite its exorbitant cost, hs2 still has cross party support. Justine Greening is an accountant, so she might baulk at the figures, but eslewhere throughout the House are politicians who have seen a taste of what they have on the continent and are salivating for the UK to have some more.

The rest of that is for jetblast, so within the context of BHX, my comment was on the design of the station, which I have not seen debated much elsewhere.

If hs2 doesn't happen, then obviously we stick with the station we have, but the runway extension is going ahead regardless, and even if hs2 was scrapped, that doesn't mean the budget gets transferred to the roads.

[j636]

Are Aer Arann going to resume Waterford from 26 March. They have said it would be back but nothing on sale.

[chinapattern]

What's happening with Flybe? Following on from the Budapest speculation, Bergen is now showing in the drop-down for routes from BHX staring 16th May but flights aren't bookable. There are also some new Scottish destinations as well as Donegal and Knock showing. I take it they are codeshare routes?

[BAladdy]

What's happening with Flybe? Following on from the Budapest speculation, Bergen is now showing in the drop-down for routes from BHX staring 16th May but flights aren't bookable. There are also some new Scottish destinations as well as Donegal and Knock showing. I take it they are codeshare routes?

Loganair have operated as a franchise carrier for a number of years now. Ex BHX BE offer flights connecting at ABZ, EDI, GLA and INV to BE flights operated by Loganair to the Highlands and Islands and BGO.

[j636]

Ryanair appear to of cut BHX-Murcia flights next summer. Only bookable 2 weekly.

[Daza]

It would appear that TOM Hurgada and Luxor are set to return from BHX for Winter 2012/3. Boa Vista and Sal appear again as do the usual Canary Island flights.
Daza

[Cloud1]

The Budapest route on the drop down menu is simply the Air France flight that BE codeshare on. It operates out of CDG so has always been bookable via BE Call Centre but finally they are trying to get them online. Others that will start appearing if they have not already are:

BHX-LYS (AF)
SOU-MRS (BE SOUORY AF ORYMRS)

I expect many more as well because if my memory serves me right the codeshare included links to Vienna, Athens and a host of others

[OltonPete]

Cloud1

Thank you for the information and I suppose that was going to the likely answer it is just odd how after 14 months it has taken so long.

As you say, Lyon is also only now bookable despite it being a direct flight.

In theory I would have expected all Air France's European destinations appear if not worldwide but I suppose with IT Sorftware even in this day and age it is not that easy.

Daza

Both already bookable by the look of it. More flights than this winter so I suspect a 738 all winter?

Day changes Boa Vista moves to Wednesday and its Tuesday spot is taken by an extra Arrecife. Thursday sees Tenerife go but a second Las Palmas added.

Friday sees TFS, SSH and Hurghada compared to just TFS this year.

FUE is back on Wednesday with PFO, Luxor and Boa Vista which makes four based so that will probably end up on the Thomas Cook like this year. Enfidha stays on a Wednesday as an away based aircraft. Monday is the same as now FNC, LPA & SSH as is Sunday AGP, TFS, ACE & SSH.

Pete

[Daza]

According to posts elsewhere BHX-IST with Turkish Airlines will go daily from Summer 2012. Some slightly better news :}

[OltonPete]

Turkish has been doing better recently and is of no surprise although not
bookable as yet.

Ryanair have added an extra Malaga in July on a Tuesday and then it seems
to change to Friday in August but both flights are operated from Malaga rather
than the BHX base. This brings the Malaga back to a similar frequency to this summer when there were two flights on a Saturday.

Murcia as pointed out a few posts ago is still just twice weekly.

The last LH Cityline Munich CRJ-900 has operated this afternoon with it reverting
back to all 195 operation, which is quite an increase in seats.

Following on the one Frankfurt operated by Lufthansa metal changes in just
over a week to the A319 from the 735/733 mix.

Air France once again have some A320's scheduled in January making the summer change on AF1564/5 to the CRJ1000 curious.

BHX has also seen the three class United (ex CO) 757's with the six less
seats although that will make little difference except for the fact there
are now 45 economy plus seats to sell along with the 16 business-first
and 108 economy!

Pete

[worcsbert]

The 757 is still a 2 class cabin aircraft. Economy plus is just extra legroom seating similar to monarch's aircraft that is available to purchase but free to Mileage plus elite members.

Currently 23 have been upgraded to have the Economy plus seating with the rest due for completion by the end of January.

[nigel osborne]

Worcbert;

Re United 757s

Surely then, you will now have economy seats at one price, premium economy at higher price, and business class as the most expensive..so to the passenger thats 3 choices at different prices..

so although its only seating thats different its still 3 class options :confused:

Nigel

[egnxema]

Class is not simply based on price.

Economy Class is sold at numerous different prices.

On UA Economy Plus is simply the economy product with 4in extra seat pitch.

Premium Economy on VS and Ba for example is in a different cabin, different seats, different catering, different check in.

These things diferentiate the class - not simply the fare paid.

[worcsbert]

The UA Economy plus is sold or given as an "extra". Like a exit row seat that are an additional cost. The class or "bucket" that the seat in economy is sold does not change due to a economy plus seat being sold or taken by elite passengers.

The service is the same, the food's the same the only benefit is the legroom

[ticketondeparture]

With regards to the Air France Lyon route.. when is the actual finish date?

I'm supposedly ticketed on the route after its final day of operation.

[OltonPete]

ticketondeparture

The article concerned has been trashed in some quarters and although the service is far from safe it is supposed to be only "under review", which can be
interpreted on similar lines as a football manager being told by his chairman that his job is safe, a week before he gets the sack.

Obviously the Parent (Air France) has a strategy in place for the French regions (See the growth with NCE, MRS & BOD) but Lyon's position has not been commented on as much other than easyjet's expansion and AF haven't yet shown any desire to fight fire with fire like they have at Nice.

The 50 seat business model we are constantly told is bust and Brit Air have been reducing their fleet steadily and this is probably where the problem arises for the Lyon to BHX, Prague and Hamburg services.

Most list the CRJ1 fleet at 14 but looking at Libhomeradar this shows two have not flown for months and another two possibly on maintenance or gone.
One flew BHX-LYS on 16/12 and then has a positioning flight number and another flew Orly - Norwich yesterday although whether this data is reliable I am not sure.

Eight of the fleet have been active in the last two days with a reduced timetable (Lyon and Orly bases) but I imagine it is a case of something will change in the not too distant future.

As I have said before a twice a day CRJ700 would seem to be overkill on the current pax numbers but I would hope for a daily service (CR7 or CRK) by either Brit Air or even flybe (Q400/175/195), as they code-share the route.

A daily 175 would only be a loss of 24 seats a day and seems an ideal alternative but we will have to wait and see.


Pete

[crewmeal]

To think back in Maersk days they would fill a CRJ200 daily on the LYS route. It's not particularly a business route, so why the decline in pax numbers to warrant all this uncertainty? BA had the marketing tools then, AF have them now. What's gone wrong? (Please don't say BHX management)

[nigel osborne]

egnxema re UA 757.

I understand what your saying, however the bottom line is that BHX now has to try and fill a larger number of higher price seats that is my point .

[worcsbert]

50% of the UA Economy plus seats do not get charged for through Elite members taking them for free, the other 50% will be used regardless, the price of the ticket to sit in them is not higher. It is a additional extra cost, if no one pays for them, they will still be used.

[crewmeal]

Mint Airways Boeing 757-28A EC-LBC which arrived on Christmas
Eve spent the day parked up - the aircraft is now BHX based and
is available for general charter work

Taken from BHX blog. Why would Mint base a 757 at BHX hoping for charter work? Please no more ATQ flights :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[EastMids]

I understand what your saying, however the bottom line is that BHX now has to try and fill a larger number of higher price seats that is my point

No, on United all the seats in economy/economy plus are sold as standard economy seats... Once a passenger has bought an economy class ticket, they have the option to pay more for extra leg-room as an add-on (United frequent flyer program members get the add-on for free). This add-on allows the passenger to select a seat towards the front of the cabin in the section called "economy plus" which has the extra leg room - if a passenger doesn't buy the add-on, the extra leg-room seats are blocked to them. If no one buys the extra leg room, these seats still get sold as normal economy seats and the lucky ones who book last minute may well get the extra leg room for free.

The net result is that economy class tickets are no more expensive - it's just that United gets some extra revenue from up-selling extra leg-room seats, otherwise known as "economy plus". The new United has made the decision that the extra revenue generated from up-selling extra leg-room seats compensates for the loss of six seats per aircraft.

Andy

[nigel osborne]

Thanks Andy,worcbert,

So economy passengers are being ripped off.. if they want more leg room and offer to pay more..when they have a reasonable chance anyway of a free upgrade if they do not pay any more :=..crikey what a murky business it is !:*

Will remember that one in the future..

Nigel

[EastMids]

Not really being ripped off... Every single one of the 108 normal leg room seats has to be allocated to someone before anyone [except United frequent flyer program members] gets the extra leg room for free. And almost invariably if the flight is NOT full, what happens is that 108 passengers who haven't paid for extra leg-room are crammed in the back, whilst those who have paid/qualified for extra leg-room not only get the extra leg-room but also get the empty seats next to / between them. It often makes for a significantly more comfortable flight than being in the normal leg-room seats. Despite there being no cabin divider inbetween normal economy and "economy plus", in order to protect the benefit for those who have paid for "economy plus", United flight attendants are getting pretty good stopping passengers who haven't paid the add-on from creeping forward into extra leg-room seats after the doors are closed.

Its the same on most other airlines actually - in the end, if no one pays for extra leg-room (easyJet, bmiBaby, British Airways) those seats will still be sold as normal seats and someone might get lucky and get the extra room for free when they check-in... Passengers who want extra leg-room are paying for a guarantee they'll get it, rather than taking what on many occasions would be a rather significant risk of ending up with a normal seat.

Andy

[groundhogbhx]

The Mint a/c is based at BHX for ad-hoc flights, much the same as the Air Finland a/c have been for the last 2 summer seasons. Not sure how much work they expect to pick up though :rolleyes:

[Jonnyf]

2012 seems to be a positive one for Birmingham from the current looks of things

-BmiBaby re-introducing Barcelona, Lisbon and Rome
-Aer Arann bringing back Waterford
-Monarch Introducing 5 new routes of Dubrovnik, Heraklion, Milan-Malpensa, Venice and Rome even though 4 of them are not new to the airport.
-Lufthansa bringing Berlin Connection increasing there presence at Birmingham
-Turkish Rumoured to be increasing Istanbul to a Daily service
-Increase in Business traffic with the completion of the Eurojet facility

Also the start of constructing the long awaited Runway extension

Lets hope the trend has changed for Birmingham and we start to grow again

[mart901]

Has RE definately confirmed that about WAT route? Theres nothing on their website as yet.

[nigel osborne]

Johnnyf.

Agree there are some positives this year especially the start of the runway project.

However I think the increase in APD this year,recession and now expected 10% increases in airfares due to the new Carbon Trading inclusion of aviation..will be a very tough year for BHX:(

Nigel

[Jonnyf]

Birmingham Airport boss Paul Kehoe revealed airlines and holiday companies are expected offer cut-price deals during the Olympics, with deals are to be announced over the coming weeks. He said: ‘Not everyone will want to stay in Britain but there will be planes coming in full and leaving nearly empty while the Olympics are on. So we expect to see some good deals being offered by airlines.’

Mr Kehoe also said that he wants to see more investment in Birmingham to allow for more flights, adding: ‘The Government needs to recognise the value of regional airports.'

Hopefully this will reduce the damage of APD by a certain percentage and heard Waterford from another forum

[revo]

I can confirm 100% Aer Arann will not be operating Waterford to Birmingham next summer

[Evanelpus]

Also the start of constructing the long awaited Runway extension

I'm guessing the entension is the 15 end and how much extra are they getting?

[Occams Razor]

400m. 33 end.

[Evanelpus]

Will that have any effect on the A45?

I remember many years ago there was talk about a "bridge" over the road.

[revo]

The A45 will be diverted around the extension to the runway, they were going to tunnel the road under the runway but this was found to be too expensive

Revo

[Evanelpus]

Thanks Revo, was beginning to think I'd ever see the extension in my lifetime!

[nigel osborne]

Re runway extension;

It has now been reduced to 350 metres from the original 400m and the road diverted a bit more to put enough spacing between the end of the extension and the diverted road .:eek:

A bridge will therefore not be needed, although the RESA ( Runway end safety area) goes from the intended "recommended" to lesser "statutory" distance but enough space between to comply with CAA regs.;)

The 4 construction companies putting in tenders were confirmed today and one will be selected and announced in February.

Start date for diverting the A45 will be July 2012, start date for runway extension June 2013 completion 2014.:D


Nigel

[BDS10]

I understood that there had been a reduction in the proposed increase in runway length just after planning permission had been given to save money. Is the 400m to 350m a further reduction?

[nigel osborne]

BDS10

The decision was taken in 2010 after in became apparent that BHX couldn't afford the bridge.. fortunately they had written into the application this possible amendment.

It is that amendment that takes 50m off the original length.

However don't know if the 150m starter strip proposed (separate to the counted runway length) still goes ahead or whether that has also been removed..cannot find the new new plans anywhere.

Nigel

[jabird]

Being totally cynical, I would take a look at MAN's route map, and ask which lh destinations they serve, but BHX doesn't due to its shorter runway, and then ask how many of those would really be likely to start up at BHX. Presumably, the airport pays for the road diversion, but not the extra fuel used due to cars taking a longer route to get past the airport?

Now that might be taking my cynicism a little bit far, but the airport wants to place itself as a reliever airport for London, and it does at least have a much better proposition than MSE (RIP EDI link).

So looking at the current state of the market in Jan 12, come (summer I hope) 2014, how many routes are we going to get?

I can imagine a few extra leisure routes to the Caribbean, mabe Goa, MBA etc - although how good for the beancounters are these compared to scheduled?

ORD has been discussed as a strong prospect for return, was this not the one route that was withdrawn because of capacity issues - AA 767?

ATL came and went very quickly at EDI - now DL are at LHR rather than LGW, would they look at BHX?

PHL came and went - more about demand & marketing than the runway, was it not (B757?).

Why did AI pull out? BOM & DEL are two markets with silly competition into LHR, but no regionals, not even MAN, that makes no apparent sense.

EY must have been discussed, but if EK can offer 3x daily to DXB, how will the runway xn make much difference?

I note the huge expansion of routes from SE Asia into LGW, but nothing for MAN. Even SQs MAN-SIN is via MUC - maybe that is still attractive from MAN, but why would you take such a routing from BHX when you can go nonstop from LHR with SQ or BA / QF?

[roverman]

I too have not seen recent plans for the proposed extension. However, with regard to Runway End Safety Area (RESA), UK airports will from the end of 2013 come under the new European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) certification rather than the current CAA Aerodrome Licence (based on CAP 168). EASA places a requirement for 240 metre RESA on such a runway, although there are mechanisms to allow a lesser distance subject to satisfactory safety assessment. Such allowances would normally apply to a legacy scenario, but I think it may be difficult to justify constructing a new extension and not meeting the latest standards. In 2009 MAN met the 240m ICAO 'recommended practice' by reducing the declared distances on 05L-23R, although the pavement length remains the same. It will be interesting to see the detailed plans for BHX, and how the declared distances are made up. A starter extension can be a good way to get additional TORA in the favoured direction, but with a lesser runway strip requirement.

[ATNotts]

Jabird

A very well reasoned posting. The country is littered with airports for which "length is everything". I doubt that either Cardiff or EMA has paid for their respective extensions with the volume of business that is actually needed topay for them, though in fairness EMA has probably got closer than Cardiff. I doubt if Manchester can really have recouped the cost of their second runway yet. of course there will be creative accountants who will claim otherwise.

I think if there is business to be gained at BHX, it may be in the area of IT charters to more distant destinations, and the effective use of payload opportunities on 77Ws and A380 by the likes of Emirates.

The future is the Far East, even though many on these forums have their eyes fixated on the transatlantic market, and perhaps, just perhaps, the current inward investment from China into the midlands may convince once of the Chinese carriers to take a punt on BHX with the longer runway in place. We can but hope.

Regular long haul cargo, I feel is a dead duck from BHX as EMA with their far superior facilities has this market all but sewn up.

[LGS6753]

Surely it would have been less expensive to build a bridge to carry the A45 over the runway?
:E

[nigel osborne]

Jaibird,

You sort of miss the point, the runway extension is not being built for services in 2014 but from 2014 onwards..in this recession BHX is not going to pick up many more prime routes in the short term.

However in 10, 20, years time it will be their when the market picks up..its a long term project.If they do start work in the summer we are very lucky as it could easily have been shelved..fingers crossed .

As for services, well BHX already has its wish list those being to the number 1 and 2 biggest economies in the World within the next 5 years..China and India.

Then theres Vegas, Calgary, San Francisco, Orlando with a large plane etc.

In relation to the bridge, dont forget it would have had to carry not just the runway but the taxiway and the area between those, so at least 200 metres wide its virtually a tunnel anyway. The cost of that alone was calculated at over £15 million.

So we should now have an affordable extension that can get to 95% of where BHX wants it to get.:ok:

Nigel

[crewmeal]

Just because there will be a suitable runway length for long haul in 2014 does not mean airlines will come flocking in. There are many hurdles to cross before it's even built. With the ever increasing cost of fuel, the Iranians sabre rattling, APD, European taxes, means airlines will have to be leaner and trimmer than ever before to suvive let alone open new routes to BHX.

My view is that if there is heavy investment in the region it will attract more people therefore airlines may look favourably at BHX. At the moment all we have (so far) is the Chinese investing in MG at Longbridge. That in itself could attract more direct cargo flights from China. Then again we have the European clean air tax to sort out!!

The runway and airlines coming to BHX are two different things and do not go hand in hand. The best we can hope for is to maintain established routes.

[jabird]

Nigel,

You sort of miss the point, the runway extension is not being built for services in 2014 but from 2014 onwards

No, I asked a genuine question about just how many new routes this extension is really going to enable. I want to be proved wrong as, following the demise of CVT, BHX is my local airport. However, I remain sceptical.

However in 10, 20, years time it will be their when the market picks up

In which case, apply for planning permission 5 years beforehand (afaik this sailed through without a PI), and sit on outline planning permission until demand justifies it (afaik you get 5 years) - especially if it will only take one year to actually build. Otherwise, that is 10 to 20 years of investment not getting a return, a very odd way of pleasing the bean counters.

Or....

The extension IS justified now, in which case, let's keep looking at the routes.

You said:

'those being to the number 1 and 2 biggest economies in the World within the next 5 years..China and India.'

India, as I mentioned has been done from BHX - in a rare coup where iirc MAN never got a look in. I don't recall the reason for the routes to BOM (then to ATQ?) being axed - was it internal airline wranglings or the runway - I doubt it was load factor?

There are business and leisure reasons for MAN to have links with China too - but CX MAN - HKG via MOW was long promised, never started. Again, why not? Why, apart from motor trade freight which could also be served from EMA, would BHX be different?

Just because these markets are emerging, that alone doesn't guarantee that BHX routes would be viable, or that if they are, they will need the extension (I'm thinking BOM and ATQ in this respect, obviously not HKG / PEK etc without tech stop).

And with all the advantages the Gulf carriers have, just how attractive will these seemingly tempting routes actually be in reality?


Then theres Vegas, Calgary, San Francisco, Orlando with a large plane etc.

Surely LAX would be the most obvious US West Coast city - again, not served from MAN, but 5 airlines from LHR inc NZ.

Yes, YYC and LAS might be nice routes, largely, but not entirely leisure (I say as someone who has been to LAS for a convention), both served from MAN, but they alone don't make the case.

Re: ORL (also NYC, DXB) - Sure, airlines would prefer the option to deploy larger aircraft on a route if it is available, but will they pay a steep rise in PSC for the privilege?

Meanwhile, MAD, BUD (for now), ATH, ARN, OSL etc - well within reach, but unserved.

[OltonPete]

jabird

The official line from Air India stated that the withdrawal was due to moving the aircraft/route to Heathrow to preserve slots but was this just spin?

Air India has not got an aircraft shortage as several aircraft are currently offered for lease so I assume it is fair to say that the business case does not add-up or internal politics?

The European route offering this year is a great improvement on 2011 and there is still the possibility of one or two of those mentioned still coming on-line this year although things have gone quiet recently due to the holiday period.

Pete

[nigel osborne]

jAIBIRD,


I have followed the planning application from day one. attended 2 hearings at Solihull Council house for it, and attended most of the presentations.

You can't just sit on an outline application your under an obligation to either commit or drop it with the clock ticking.

It takes years..You can't also just wait until you think the market will pick up ,because if you did that by the time you then have to resubmit, do all the enviromental reports etc etc, and then start to build the market could be in decline again?

Its a never ending cycle and you have to have to be brave and commit.

BHX has been very brave in this go ahead and once its built its banked forever.

Be proud of your airport as you seem to be looking for every negative possible.

Nigel

[chinapattern]

With the green light for HS2 expected next week, the runway extension, the new ATC and all the recent renovations that have been done to the terminal building you can clearly see how BHX is being pushed as an attractive alternative to London; yet for me it remains very much a case of they will build it, but will anybody come?

[crewmeal]

I hope it's not a case of 'all fur coat and no knickers!'

[nigel osborne]

Chinapattern,all,

yes thats the big question Will anyone come.

However not sure what more BHX can do,an airport just provides services for airlines to operate into.90% of the rest is in the hands of airlines.

BHX has just been voted best large UK airport in Which magazine 8,000 passengers from all over the country voted.

We now have a new pier capable of handling 6 77Ws at a time and a 380.New ATC tower new ILS,new primary radar to be installed next month and hopefully a runway extension.

Its now up to airlines to choose if they want to come here.Lets hope they do.

Nigel

[GayFriendly]

Nigel/all

I do share some of your optimism but sadly not all. I'm with crewmeal, I think that BHX has put a lot (but by no means all) its eggs in a very risky basket. It is unlikely that BHX will ever will be the high profile longhaul honey pot it hopes to be, even given a shiny longer runway. Its proximity to LON area airports (to be possibly made more attractive now that HS2 looks more likely) means that, given the London centric nature of this country and aviation, pax will happily fly to/from these airports due to the cost and frequency of flights from there, something that BHX will find it hard to compete with. As for getting pax from other countries to fly into BHX as an alternative to LHR, well good luck with that!

Don't get me wrong I would be so happy to see direct flights to India, China etc as proposed by the airport as a result of its extension, but lets face it, if MAN can 'only' manage a six times a week SIN via MUC connection with SQ, what hope for BHX to attract Far Eastern carriers??

The track record of BHX in long haul is good for an airport of its sixw but US and AI, longer ago AA and HY, much longer ago AC (OK, HY were more of a niche carrier relying on connections to ATQ) no longer grace the BHX runway.

We may have a pier that handles 6 x 77W at a time but I for one have never seen the terminals so quiet and the range of direct scheduled destinations so tame (although it does get better as far as Europe goes in 2012). Focus on the immediate backyard (more European routes) before sowing the far and away field that other airports in the UK have already planted and harvested.

[johnnychips]

Focus on the immediate backyard (more European routes) before sowing the far and away field that other airports in the UK have already planted and harvested


You should be the next Poet Laureate, or join an ad agency.

[GayFriendly]

:ok: Thanks for your feedback Mr Johnnychips!

[nigel osborne]

Gafriendly your quote.

"Focus on the immediate backyard (more European routes) before sowing the far and away field that other airports in the UK have already planted and harvested".


Thats exactly what they are doing, trying there very hardest.That doesn't mean you give up on long haul.As it is the runway won't be finished till late 2014.Which gives BHX another three years to chase some more Euro routes.


There are probably 10 more cities in Europe that BHX can have a realistic chance of getting scheduled services they could fill. Im told they are visiting,phoning and trying to promote to get to them all.

With new increases in APD and the new Carbon capture tax, and rising fuel prices regional airports are being hit very hard.

Can you please tell me what more BHX can do than this bearing all the above in mind bearing in mind they have to keep their prices the same to stay in profit?:confused:

Nigel

[GayFriendly]

Nigel,

I know that BHX (like other regionals) have had it tough in the last few years. All things considered the company has certainly put their money where their mouth is and have made some magnificent steps forward in terms of pax and airfield facilities (in particular IMO the pier, which I think is a superb facility). The runway extension is a logical and necessary conclusion to the work that has been done over the past few years. To 'answer' your question, no I cannot think of much more they can do.

What I am concerned about is the reliance that BHX seems to be putting on the runway extension for rapid future growth based on a substantial increase in long haul flying. BHX should definately NOT give up on long haul but I cannot see this sector being the driver for the growth in routes, airlines and more importantly pax figures to justify and recoup investment in the extension. Runway extension or not, nothing will change the fact that BHX is just close enough to LHR and the huge range and frequencies of non stop long haul options it offers. The relative ease of reaching it makes them very attractive (especially for south Midlanders) to use. BHX has shown that on the right route and with the right equipment, long haul can thrive (EK) but I really can't think of many more routes, apart from the Indian sub continent (which can already be reached on current runway length) and perhaps a SE Asia hub that BHX will be able to profitably support? There may be room for another scheduled transatlantic but I wouldn't hold my breath (although MCO with VS on a 330 could work?). I can also see seasonal long haul charters increasing but these alone will not fuel significant growth in pax volumes and as proved in recent years, the fortunes of these are notoriously affected by world events, Kenya the latest to suffer a huge drop in package tourism

I am pleased to hear that BHX is working hard to get more European routes on board, IB to MAD MUST be one of these I hope? I can also see ZB trying out more new city routes as well, and maybe just maybe BE with the 175 which should be ideally suited for routes like WAW, BUD, VIE? If BHX could see a significant revival in its fortunes in its European network then yes, coupled with the runway extension, the future would look rosier than it has done for a while. As I said in my previous post, I would be delighted to see more long haul routes take off from BHX but I think we really do need to be realistic and not rely on a runway extension and long haul to bring in the much needed boost in pax numbers, airlines and routes.

[CabinCrewe]

IB to MAD MUST be one of these
MAN downgraded to CR2 and GLA only twice a week, cant see a new BHX anytime soon.

[GayFriendly]

True cabincrewe, but twice a week is better than none a week! I have been reading on the MAN thread that IB have done next to no advertising, so an aircraft downgrade from there no surprise, don't FR and ZB also fly to MAD from MAN? BHX has nobody flying to MAD surely IB should be able to make that work?

[Monty Gordo]

Because IB to Mad and GLA hasn't worked surely that does not mean that IB should not investigate an alternative route structure in the UK. If as has been said on this forum very recently the management team at BHX are working hard to open up new routes from the Midlands then perhaps their overtures to IB may bring some success.

BHX's past and its future will be based on a solid business-based route structure in mainland Europe. It may well be that the business model stacks up for BHX where id didn't for MAN and GLA. There is of course IB's route structure to Central and South America where the economies are currently performing better than most, if not all, of Europe.

Business will drive any future development from BHX, bucket and spade is all well and good but can be hit hard by domestic, but not necessarily business economies.

[OltonPete]

Not sure about the Manchester Madrid struggling, as I understand it the aircraft change was to be from the CRJ1000 to CRJ900 which is a difference of ten passengers. I have not heard of the CRJ2 50 seater on the MAN route.

I also believe that there have been decent loads, especially in the last few weeks although I know that should be expected during the festive period but it is early days and as mentioned previously there is supposed to have been a lack of advertising.

Turkish at BHX performed poorly until this summer when there was what seemed to be an advertising blitz and loads since have gone-up so things can change quickly although in this case it was about the same time Mahan Air finished, which might have helped TK.

Pete

[chaps2011]

I thought the IB was going to a CRJ-900 not a 200 which is a loss of 10 seats
for 6 days and a CRJ-1000 1 day, the CRJ-200 are not popular and on a flight
of that duration would not stand a chance due to being too small with limited baggage space and not comfortable


Ian

[jabird]

Its a never ending cycle and you have to have to be brave and commit.

BHX has been very brave in this go ahead and once its built its banked forever.

Be proud of your airport as you seem to be looking for every negative possible.

Nigel

Nigel,

As I said in my earlier post, I will be very happy to be proved wrong on this one. I am not bashing the airport or mgmt, I am just doubtful about the business case for the extension.

My reference to planning was just a response to the suggestion that the market may pick up - as the airport must make a profit (- AWM input), this investment needs to start paying for itself from day 1.

Without re-igniting the MAN v BHX debate, people should remember that the geography is different - the 'leakage' from MAN to LON is more likely to be by air, hence MAN is still used anyway, whereas BHX to LON leakage can only be by road or rail. However, I do think it is fair to look at MAN's LH routes, and then ask which ones might realistically work at BHX.

If a long term route goes due to an airline re-jigging itself, fair enough, but how many BHX lh routes have been flash in the pan - despite lh usually being given longer to prove itself?

What is the current max aircraft size to reach SFB or MCO without tech stop? Can the Dreamliner make it?

Re; Europe - yes, this is looking better than last year, but there still are some huge gaps. I look forward to seeing these filled.

[nigel osborne]

Hi Jaibird,

Yes the 787 can easily make Orlando,and it was also hoped that it could have got off our 8,500 ft runway to China one day.

However the tech boys at BHX had it bang on, and a 787 at sea level to China, and similar distances requires 9,400ft. We are at 330ft about that so add a bit more.So the extension was necessary even for for the 787 to such places.

I understand your point of view on the planning ,and as I say wish it was that easy, hopefully you can see it is not now.

The CEO himself says the case for the extension was marginal as you say,but he was willing to have a go and saved millions in having a slightly shorter one,as the bridge project is now dropped.

Whats done is now done and I don't see the point of rubbishing it now.Sure BHX know what they are doing..well lets hope they do !:O

Nigel

[jabird]

Nigel,

Whats done is now done and I don't see the point of rubbishing it now.Sure BHX know what they are doing..well lets hope they do !

I stand by my view that I don't think it will pay for itself, but I appreciate having a good debate about the routes at last, the thread has touched on this before but not really gone into detail. Just because the runway extension makes a route technically viable does not mean (a) that the route will come once it is built, or that (b) having the route will pay for the work done.

However, you are right in that we should applaud risk takers - after all, the AWM input is minimal, and relative to some of the projects proposed for London, this is pocket change.

If you prove me wrong and we're both still in pprune in 2022, I will gladly buy you a pint in a Beijing bar of your choice ;) :ok:

[Skipness One Echo]

However the tech boys at BHX had it bang on, and a 787 at sea level to China, and similar distances requires 9,400ft. We are at 330ft about that so add a bit more.So the extension was necessary even for for the 787 to such places.
That seems very high, like every foot of the runway! The B777s and A330s at LHR don't appear to need that much tarmac.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Nigel Osborne -

You have been a very naughty boy! The figure you quote as the population of the West Midlands is the number for the region as a whole, not that of the West Midlands Conurbation. It is estimated that only 43% of the West Midlands total population are domiciled within the conurbation.

The 2001 census puts the West Midlands Conurbation population at 2,284,093. I would prefer to produce the 2011 numbers but I am unable to find them at this point ... have the census results been published yet? In any case, in spite of the 2001 figure being somewhat outdated, I'm pretty confident that the number has not increased by around 60%! Indeed, indications point to a modest reduction.

Therefore, the figure you have quoted as West Midlands population should rightfully be compared with the region known as the North West. For a meaningful comparison with the Greater Manchester Conurbation you must use the West Midlands Conurbation total.

As for your other data, you are again economical with the truth. We all know that Manchester is a geographically small city due to its late development with the cotton industry wildly overspilling its historic boundaries. Most people economically dependent on Manchester occupy addresses in the nine surrounding boroughs which make up the conurbation, which is the true single entity. Only conurbation-level comparisons offer us meaningful insights into economic comparisons between Birmingham and Manchester. Using the data as you do may raise a belly laugh (the effect you were hoping for?), but it will not paint a relevant picture and all readers here know that. We're more intelligent than you give us credit for! Wouldn't it just be better to compare the conurbations like-for-like, or would you rather score cheap points? The real figures are not embarrassing for WM Birmingham, you know. But they are pretty neck-and-neck with Greater Manchester. That is the true picture ... this evergreen debate exists because we all know this to be so.

Having said all that, the spectacle of your 'willy-waving' posting with all those childish clapping smilies comes across as pretty unedifying anyway. Please try harder!

Regards. SHED.

[kasuga]

Any truth in the rumour that menzies are starting up at bhx and have taken over the flybe contract from swissport wef april ??......if true will shake up things this summer.

[xtypeman]

There is also a secondry appeal for the runway lenght that know one has touched upon. With an increase in TODA and LDA this has an effect on aircraft performance not only for long haul but also for all other aircraft types. Increased lenght reduced power for take off there fore reduced maintenance etc etc....

[TCX69]

Any truth in the rumour that menzies are starting up at bhx and have taken over the flybe contract from swissport wef april ??......if true will shake up things this summer.

Yes this is true. Swissport employees found out today. Only leaves them with LX, TCX, TK & TS.

Good luck to the BHX Swissport guys!

[ATNotts]

Shed.

What we don't need is another bout of willy waving and rubbishing "yours" or "my" airport (my local is actually EMA so I consider myself something of a referee).

As I wrote a couple of days ago I doubt that any airport that has built new runways or extended existing ones beyond what is needed for euorpean operations have actually made a real profit on the initial investment (not even your beloved Manchester).

BHX has taken a pretty big business risk, let us wish them all the best - as I do the Manchester taxpayers who have more of a vested interest in getting a payback than do those living around truly privatised airports such as EMA and BHX.

[nigel osborne]

xtypeman,

Yes good point, suppose also if taking off from 33 end once an extensions built,most planes will be higher over houses with a bit less noise for those beneath.

Nigel

[The96er]

BHX has taken a pretty big business risk, let us wish them all the best - as I do the Manchester taxpayers who have more of a vested interest in getting a payback than do those living around truly privatised airports such as EMA and BHX.

I believe the Manchester taxpayers also have a vested interest in EMA given that it's owned by MAG.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

ATNotts -

My posting does not rubbish Birmingham or its airport in any way. It simply points out that inapplicable and incorrect stats have been posted by another contributor and corrects these. My posting even points out that the correct figures are not an embarrassment for Birmingham, and that population figures for both conurbations really are neck-and-neck (hence the recurring debate). I put it to you that an episode of "willy waving" would require me to promote one conurbation (presumably my "beloved" one?) and denigrate the other. My posting clearly avoids doing this as you and all readers here can readily check.

So what exactly has upset you, Ref???

SHED.

[jabird]

There is another stat out there that only something like 13% of pax using MAN head to / from the city centre, and I would guess a similar figure for BHX.

I really don't think the city is relevant. What matters is what govt bods call the 'propensity to fly' - ie the market for in and outbound traffic. Too much business is leaked from BHX and EMA to the south, and to a lesser extent the north.

BHX can only do so much about this, due to its proximity to London, however, London airports are running out of space. The airport hope to capitalise on this, but if there is a lesson here as a warning, is it not the dead duck that is MSE?

London people and visitors will want to use London airports. I could go on about LHR v Thames v LGW, but I think all of you refs will send me off for that - needless to say, the demand for London airspace will resolve itself somehow.

Which takes us back to Nigel's quote:

Sure BHX know what they are doing..well lets hope they do !

It is, of course, easier to be an armchair commentator than the people who actually have to do the route chasing, but big businesses are seconf only to big government at getting things wrong.

If anything, my biggest disappointment is not with airport management, who can only go so far with their enthusiasm for route development. Is BHX not one of the largest, and certainly longest established of BE's bases? Great things were promised with both the Q400 and the E-jets, and what have we got. Virtually all the European destinations mentioned above would surely be ideal for the E175 on whatever frequency could be supported.

So shouldn't we be venting our frustrations in the direction of Exeter?

[Cloud1]

BE routes have come and gone at BHX like many other airlines, at many other airports.

Gone are the days when BE operated to the likes of Bergamo (now have MXP so not too bad), Faro, Alicante, Palma, Malaga etc I think there is a reasonably long list of destinations that Flybe have tried over the years but only some domestics and business European routes have remained.

I think possibly there may be some expansion from BE at BHX but they wont be in the immediate future. Anyone have any idea on when the next batch of 175s will be in??

[BobBHX]

Nigel

We may have a pier capable of handling 6 77Ws at a time, but we certainly don't have an immigration facility capable of processing a quarter of the passengers generated by those 77Ws. Thankfully I now have a chip passport but up until the end of last year there was a 3 or 4 month period when they couldn't be bothered to repair Iris and the queues just to get into the immigration hall could well be halfway down the new pier.

[HeliCraig]

I moaned to BHX extensively about this on Twitter when I got back from Dubai in November.

It was so bad I am sure I could have flown to LHR and been home quicker, a point I made to them.

They accepted it and said they were speaking to the Border Agency about improving wait times. However, when you see what the BA's wait time target is, BHX is actually "good":


Waiting times at the border (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/customs-travel/Enteringtheuk/arrivingatukborder/)
With tougher checks now in place at the border you may have to wait a little longer to get into the UK, especially at peak times. We use scanners to ensure that passports, visas and other official documents are genuine. Our officers are trained to detect forgeries and check that people have the right to enter the UK.

An officer will check your passport and give you permission to stay, if you need it. We aim to see you within 45 minutes.

:D:ugh:

[nigel osborne]

BobBHX

Yes an airport can only operate properly, if it has enough staff, and British Airports do seem to run a lot of the time on minimum staffing.

Flew into Vancouver and out of Calgary recently, ALL immigration desks were manned and there seemed an army of baggage handlers and support staff..no cutbacks over there it seemed.

Nigel

[rn750]

The 45 Places to Go in 2012 - NYTimes.com (http://travel.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/travel/45-places-to-go-in-2012.html?pagewanted=2&sq=Birmingham&st=cse&scp=9)

Check out 19..!!

19. Birmingham (http://travel.nytimes.com/travel/guides/europe/britain/england/birmingham/overview.html?inline=nyt-geo), England (http://travel.nytimes.com/travel/guides/europe/britain/england/overview.html?inline=nyt-geo)
Could England’s second city be first in food?
Olive, the BBC’s food magazine, recently startled British gourmands when it declared (http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/worldwide/051011birmingham.html) Birmingham, England’s second largest city, the United Kingdom’s “foodiest town,” ahead of London and Edinburgh. The award came last October, just as Birmingham was hosting an annual festival, the 10-day Birmingham Food Fest (http://birminghamfoodfest.com/), which featured such local talents as Aktar Islam of Lasan Restaurant (http://www.lasan.co.uk/); up-and-comers like David Colcombe of Opus (http://www.opusrestaurant.co.uk/), Andy Waters of Edmunds Restaurant (http://www.edmundsrestaurant.co.uk/) and Steve Love of Loves Restaurant (http://www.loves-restaurant.co.uk/); and a troika of Michelin-starred chefs: Glynn Purnell of Purnell’s (http://www.purnellsrestaurant.com/); Andreas Antona, Luke Tipping and Adam Bennett of Simpsons Restaurant (http://www.simpsonsrestaurant.co.uk/); and Richard Turner of Turners of Harborne (http://www.turnersofharborne.com/).
The chefs are building on an already rich dining scene. Birmingham is famous in Britain (http://travel.nytimes.com/travel/guides/europe/britain/overview.html?inline=nyt-geo) for its Balti Triangle (http://www.balti-birmingham.co.uk/), an area of town that is home to a beloved Pakistani-Kashmiri curry dish invented here; it is also birthplace to such classically British food items as Typhoo Tea, Bird (http://travel.nytimes.com/travel/guides/birds/overview.html?inline=nyt-classifier)’s Custard and HP Sauce. ALEXANDER LOBRANO:D:D:D:D:D
Adie