BIRMINGHAM - 5

[getonittt]

Quite a few years ago, I was in conversation with a BA pilot. Forget where.
He was surprised, when it came up in conversation, that Emirates flew to Birmingham.
His flabber was totally gasted when I said "yes, twice a day on a 777".

Oh... a BA pilot , was he flabbergasted birmingham had an airport?

[crewmeal]

On a different note. PK are you reading this?

Airport parking cheaper for plane than a car - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/9364165/Airport-parking-cheaper-for-plane-than-a-car.html)

What deos it cost to park for 24 hours at BHX? A lot more than £21 me thinks!!

[TSR2]

What deos it cost to park for 24 hours at BHX?

£19.49 in the short stay car park.

[GayFriendly]

A snippet from a report about the Evening Standard 'debate' into aviation policy and capacity in the South East held recently

But there are other possibilities, including expansion at Stansted or Gatwick. The one option that seems unviable is expansion at Birmingham. As Mr Walsh remarked, demand from airlines to land there has actually gone down in recent years.
So that will be a no then from BA to coming back to BHX!! As I pointed out in a previous post, it is this kind of thinking that BHX is up against in its quest to become a viable alternative to LHR. The problem is that it is not seen as viable! I seem to remember reading somewhere else that QF have said if LHR runs out of suitable capacity they will simply increase flights from FRA and feed UK pax through there. This despite both MAN and BHX being available!! Good luck PK and team, I think you will need it!

[crewmeal]

Sadly GF you're right. The only time you will see BA colours at BHX is on diversions and odd charters.

[chinapattern]

I seem to remember reading somewhere else that QF have said if LHR runs out of suitable capacity they will simply increase flights from FRA and feed UK pax through there. This despite both MAN and BHX being available!! Good luck PK and team, I think you will need it!

Indeed, if airlines are going to choose another country before trying out LGW or MAN then what chance does BHX have? Interesting though as I thought QF were on the verge of pulling out of FRA not so long back?

[scott737]

It may be that demand for airlines to land at BHX has decreased in recent years but this may just be because it was one of Mr Walsh's airlines that caused that, by pulling out of regional ops. Would that have anything to do with demand at BHX going down, perhaps?

Scott

[jabird]

Yes o.k. don't take my words literally , but you cannot deny it was of no coincidence that the joining of the star alliance meant the end for this service with the inevitable standard excuse of '' not enough yield '' used for a service that had a PLF of over 75%

Well your words spell out the problem exactly - loads good, yields not enough to justify the route.

I doubt very much that this route was about serving the city of Brotherly love. Let's fact it - just how much ptp business is there that couldn't easily be served by UA to EWR and then picking up a rental car or jumping on Amtrak?

So US were going up against UA and the European majors for the conx traffic. Summer is going to be busy anyway, so 75%, given the opportunity to connect throughout most of the USA, is hardly spectacular in that season.

I'm not surprised the route didn't work, and don't see it as political. A different airline to a different city, which is viable for O&D as well as conx (ORD springs to mind, presumably post 2014 if with a 767) and maybe there'd be a different story.....

I seem to remember reading somewhere else that QF have said if LHR runs out of suitable capacity they will simply increase flights from FRA and feed UK pax through there.

I can't see the logic in adding another needless stop on what is already a very long route. Surely this is just huffing up, maybe to draw attention from the fact QF have actually pulled their LHR-HKG & BKK routes anyway?

Just to clarify - even post 2014, is SIN doable in a 744 or 380?

[jabird]

A study of 10 of Britain’s busiest airports shows that it could be cheaper to leave a light aircraft for a day at an airport than it would be to leave a car for the same amount of time.

What a pointless article!

So it is cheaper to park a 6 seater plane than a 6 seater car? So what, which one can't just nip down to the local supermarket if it needs more fuel?

[crewmeal]

What a pointless article!

I think the point was to demonstrate what a rip off car parking at airports is, especially BHX. I've been on the receiving end of short stay fees and it would be cheaper to park a 747 than stay over in the drop off area.

[Planeaddict]

According to this article: BBC News - Birmingham-to-Chicago flight 'should be re-introduced' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-15463981) (quite old), they may be re-introducing BHX - ORD.

According to another forum, BHX-DOH was also supposed to be announced as a new route for this year. Then again, this was most likely a rumour.

However, any news that could be more-or-less true?

[Invicta DC4]

"Interesting" approach by EK37 tonight, turned base over Smethwick with wheels down (normally A/C fly well over downwind) and according to flightracker, turned final at 800' at about 4 miles.

[jabird]

I think the point was to demonstrate what a rip off car parking at airports is, especially BHX. I've been on the receiving end of short stay fees and it would be cheaper to park a 747 than stay over in the drop off area.

I'm trying to remember whether they still charge for dropping off? Last time I used the airport was March, and I was more bothered about making my flight - think the taxi driver did still have to pay £1?

Apart from that, airport parking is like any other service in the travel trade - book early and pay a reasonable rate, or book late and pay a fortune.

[Planeaddict]

"Interesting" approach by EK37 tonight, turned base over Smethwick with wheels down (normally A/C fly well over downwind) and according to flightracker, turned final at 800' at about 4 miles.

I noticed that too. I looked out my window and saw it quite close, thought something was up.

[Hotel Tango]

No drop-off or pick-up costs at any of the major airports I use here on the continent - and this right in front of the terminal. Only GREEDY airport managements in the UK can think of abusing their customers in such a scandalous way. Can you imagine bus companies charging customers for using their bus stops, or railway companies charging for using their stations? That little incident in Glasgow some years ago, and the typical and useless knee jerk reaction that followed, quickly had airports seing $$$ signs. And has preventing vehicles crashing into terminal buildings made our terminals any safer? The answer is a convincing NO since there are no controls on what individuals bring into terminals in their suitcases.

[LTNman]

Hotel Tango Try and see the big picture. So you pay a £1 for a car full of passengers, big deal. If the airport made the drop off free and increased the charges to the airlines by a £1 a passenger, which would be passed on in ticket charges, you would say nothing even though it would cost you more.

If you want investment the money comes from loans. Those loans are paid back by customers who use the airport.

[call100]

Since aviation charges make nothing for the airports, they have to make their money somewhere...Yes, it's a rip off, but, it's the price you pay for cheap tickets....:ooh:

[jabird]

Can you imagine bus companies charging customers for using their bus stops, or railway companies charging for using their stations?

Actually, in BOTH cases, those fees DO exist, they are just not displayed as part of the ticket.

My contacts in the rail industry tell me that the average station user charge is around 50p-£1 for a large London terminus. As with airports, stations can make good money on retail and catering, so the user fee is kept below a level where it would be noticed, or where people would alight at London Hahn (Watford Junction) and continue by tube.

Outside the main city centres, you will also see - guess what - lots of car parks these days, from which the train companies are making good money from long stay (or short stay by airport standards) parking.

No need to top it up with a drop off charge, people would just nip around the corner, which they can't do at airports.

As for bus stations, these tend to be provided by local authorities, but there is stilll a usage fee, such that some local bus companies (eg Stagecoach here) won't use them, Likewise, "Megabus" use the Canon Park Shopping Ctr near Warwick Uni, not the city centre for a stop - although that no doubt is better for scheduling too.

In Leeds, there is even a big billboard by the Megabus stop, advertising that National Express use the "proper" bus station.

In our post-privatisation transport world, there is rarely seamless linkage between transport and station (including airport) operator, so some sort of charging method is always going to exist, whether public or not.

[Hotel Tango]

The big picture LTNman is that you are already paying for airport services as part of the airport charges which are added to your ticket costs. Therefore they are in effect charging twice. Airports only started charging after the Glasgow incident and the subsequent idiocy that followed in the UK. As I said, airports over this side of the channel don't feel the need to charge for simply dropping off or picking up pax - and you can do so right in front of the terminal. I reckon they see the big picture better than greedy UK airport managers do.

[VC10man]

What annoys me about Birmingham, is that you have to get out of your car and go to a machine to put your pound in.
At EMA you can put your pound in from the car seat.
When dropping off at EMA I stop at the roundabout, so I don't have to pay.
I am not short of the odd quid, it is the principal that annoys me. Greedy so and so's.

[Skipness One Echo]

Airports only started charging after the Glasgow incident
It's an utter nonsense. The farce at Glasgow meant that we had to change everything about something as basic as dropping off granny at the airport. Did the US follow suit? Did the Swiss or the Danish? Off course not, it's a money grabbing stunt by the grubby little managers who see a way to make a fast buck as it's "Security" innit?:ugh:

[GayFriendly]

I agree, they are all rip offs and that airports authorities in the UK have dined out on charging for the repercussions of security incidents for years but you just need to think creatively to avoid paying them - at BHX get yourself on the monorail and then dropped off or picked up at the International station, that's free (more tricky for arrivals granted as you never know quite how long someone will take from plane to station). You can always find abandoned trolleys in the long stay multi storey to get your luggage to check in for free (arrivals again tricky as there are never abandoned trolleys in the bag hall). And save and re-use your 100ml toiletry bags (I have had the same one for a year or so) to save on that buy bags for a pound con just before security. And if you are desperate to eat on board and are flying an airline that charges for food just buy a Boots meal deal, or eat in Wetherspoons, both are always far cheaper.

Don't get me started on trains, however I have become very expert at fare splitting which has saved me countless pounds in recent months. That is something that is not so easy with plane tickets unfortunately.

I know these ideas won't suit every traveller out there and require a bit of 'effort' but there are always ways to beat the system if you try hard enough ;) It's not the money but the fact that I like to avoid paying out un-necessarily.

[Hotel Tango]

GayFriendly, I do indeed do what you suggest regarding the monorail. Now that we've advertised it they'll probably slap on a €1.00 charge on that too!!You can also be dropped off at the long stay (15mins free) and use the free shuttle bus. However, that is no excuse for not berrating the greed of the airport management. If they had any real sense they could allow 30 mins free in the short stay. Incidentally, for those needing to use black cabs, they are roughly €2.50 cheaper using them from the International station than at the airport. That's because they have to pay the airport a rank fee which is of course passed on to the passenger.

[chinapattern]

What was the purpose behind the two AZ flights to FCO today?

[ericlday]

Italian F1 Racing team for British GP ??

[groundhogbhx]

Students on their annual jolly to England :eek: Ferrari usually come in later in the week.

[compton3bravo]

And they usually fly into Luton.

[revo]

There has been an Alitalia flight for Ferrari to BHX for the last 3 Julys and this year is no exception..

Due in Wednesday and due back sunday . Planned as an A320

[jabird]

Don't get me started on trains, however I have become very expert at fare splitting which has saved me countless pounds in recent months. That is something that is not so easy with plane tickets unfortunately.

I used to do that too, especially Midlands to MK, then a travel card from there with a Network Railcard. Usually saved about £5 directly off the fare, and the tube was thrown in for free - as long as you stopped at MKC in each direction, AND you were coming back same day, it was worth doing - but always needed asking manually at the cash desk, machines no use.

I stopped doing it as more advance tickets became available, now I have a national Railcard, so it is rarely worth the bother.

As for flights, it is more a case of splitting fare and carrier, there are various combinations which work, not always with locos, but often taking advantage of cheaper APD by not flying a lh sector from the UK.

[jabird]

Oh <pedant alert> -

Can we please stop calling the people mover a monorail? When it was a maglev, it was genuinely unique in the world. Now the Chinese have got that tech sorted, with a bit of help from the Germans.

All we have left is a people mover, clearly needing two rails for support and guidance, and a cable in the middle for propulsion.

</end pedant alert>

[Jamie2k9]

Ryanair Announces 4 New Routes From Birmingham From November 2012 (http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryanair-announces-4-new-routes-from-birmingham-from-november-2012#.T_WiVonkrFA.twitter)

[chinapattern]

Hmmm Palma, Barcelona and Milan? Anyone get the feeling FR are suddenly marking their territory? Hate to sound synical but I'm always dubious where FR are concerned. Not sure if BHX can support three airlines competing on Milan, just look what has happened to MAN-MAD. And didn't FR operate BHX-BCN a few years back before dropping it? I just hope these routes aren't being launched just to see off the competition and then FR themselves will pull them. Good to see Krakow on the list though and at least FR will be using BHX for something other than a parking area this winter!

[OltonPete]

Palma Ryanair was the last airline I believe to operate this route in winter. I always found it difficult to believe that not one airline could make it work in winter at two weekly. Monarch have not relaesed this for route for winter 2012/3.

Barcelona - never operated to this destination although Girona has run most winters at 2-4 a week. Monarch have not released this for winter

Krakow - only finished about 15 months ago and it was operated from EMA. Always had excellent loads winter and summer and fares were not bargain basement.

Milan BGY - :hmm:I suppose some ski pax but might see ZB off going by the loads so far.

chinapattern - As ever with FR, when you shake hands with them always remember to count the number of fingers left. All these could be just one for one route or frequency replacements. Barcelona for Girona, Kaunas, Faro, Malta and Gdansk were not bookable yesterday, Bratislava, Tenerife and Malaga reduced to twice weekly with FUE and LPA weekly. There were other reductions as well such as ALC and I think BZG

Budapest is extra and RZE increased to three weekly.

Hopefully a clearer picture will be known soon and the press release states 18 routes which I think could mean just one other route loss.

ALC LPA LDY RZE BGY
AGP ACE DUB BZG
PMI FUE BTS KTW
BCN TFS BUD KRK

Malta, Faro Gdansk or Kaunas? If I have counted correctly.

Malta - they might as well pack up and go home if that can't work year-round.

Pete

[ATNotts]

How this news can be "good for Birmingham" is beyond me.

In my opinion the last thing BHX needs is more Ryanair; especially as they showed diddly squat interest in three of the routes until Monarch turned up. If, and hope they do not, Monarch are pushed out watch O'Leary's mob retrench at BHX once again.

I would point out I don't work for Monarch, but those parasites from across the water will bring nothing but harm to the long term prosperity of the airport, and range of routes served from BHX.

I know I don't speak for everyone, but if the choice on BHX/BCN was limited to Ryanair, then I'd be using Star Alliance via FRA, ZRH or MUC - or a direct flight by another carrier from another airport.

[j636]

ALC LPA LDY RZE BGY
AGP ACE DUB BZG
PMI FUE BTS KTW
BCN TFS BUD KRK



FAO is also added to bring total to 18 rotues for winter. Would mabye hold out for KUN as its only on sale from STN and BRS at the minute.

In my opinion the last thing BHX needs is more Ryanair; especially as they showed diddly squat interest in three of the routes until Monarch turned up. If, and hope they do not, Monarch are pushed out watch O'Leary's mob retrench at BHX once again.



Did MON not do the same thing at EMA to FR, it works both ways....

[jabird]

Krakow - only finished about 15 months ago and it was operated from EMA. Always had excellent loads winter and summer and fares were not bargain basement.

I also remember Sky Europe having a go at this route, but iirc they went out of business before the route was given any chance to prove itself. Probably the Polish route with the best mix of traffic sources at both ends.

[ssflyer]

A quick schedule search looks as if FR have moved their winter Girona flights to Barcelona. One hopes they recommence their Girona schedule in April 2013 as it is a popular route for the Costa Brava, El Prat being 90-120 minutes away by car -it is a quicker access to fly into Perpignan!

[OltonPete]

j636 - Yes Faro added earlier today at twice weekly but BHX based aircraft for the first time.

Some very unusual timings but as suspected three based aircraft and the additions are nothing more than tinkering. Las Palmas moves to a LPA based aircraft once a week with a 19.20 BHX departure - fantastic :(

Arrecife has moved to Arrecife based aircraft on Monday and Friday with no Wednesday service showing as yet.

The third weekly Malaga has also been added but Bratislava still showing as twice weekly as is Tenerife and FUE once. There are gaps for MLA GDN & KUN but as the press release says 18 routes and I assume they are seasonal.

ssflyer - Possibly but the BCN has the GRO flight numbers

jabird - The SkyEurope on the whole had good loads but fares were soft and I believe it ceased before they went under but could be wrong. Baby were flying it September 2008 averaging over 100 per flight but again I think fares were low.

Pete

[OltonPete]

Birmingham Airport sees numbers soar « Express & Star (http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2012/07/07/birmingham-airport-sees-numbers-soar/)

Unusual source as the CAA figures are not out and there isn't a BHX press release. Even taking into account the extra Bank Holiday these are pretty good following on from an increase in May.

Istanbul up just 100% - no wonder 10 weekly next year.

To give a bit of perspective, here are the previous June figures and this is only the fifth time it has hit 900000 plus and third highest ever for this month. The figures are from a BHX blog and there be might some difference to the CAA data.

2012 912151 tbc
2011 861560
2010 870304
2009 898608
2008 936758
2007 911220
2006 890966
2005 960415 **** still the record for June
2004 879462
2003 911622 + 13.35%!!!

Pete

[SWBKCB]

Mr Kehoe has revealed tens of thousands could be employed by the airport by 2040 if it can convince the government that it provides the answer to congestion at London Heathrow, rather than a third runway there.

2040? I admire a man with vision, but I was hoping to have my own personal space shuttle by then and be avoiding airports... :ok:

[call100]

Mr Kehoe has revealed tens of thousands could be employed by the airport by 2040 if it can convince the government that it provides the answer to congestion at London Heathrow, rather than a third runway there.
2040? I admire a man with vision, but I was hoping to have my own personal space shuttle by then and be avoiding airports...

That's rich coming from Kehoe.......The only thing he's ever done is cut employment......Luckily for BHX someone else will be running it by 2040.:E

[OltonPete]

Something to lighten the mood.

Yes Armavia Yerevan is bookable again once weekly Tuesday 25/08/12.

This time it links in with Amritsar and you don't have to wait six days connection in Yerevan on the way back, as EVN-ATQ is twice weekly.

Aircraft shown as the A320.

Have they the aircraft, the rights to fly the routes and......the pax?

Will it won't it :rolleyes:

Pete

[potash]

Police drafted into Heathrow amid public disorder fears




Extra police are to be drafted into Heathrow after passengers who had been held in long queues tried to push past immigration officers without having their passports checked.

Immigration officers also claimed they had been subjected to verbal and racist abuse from passengers and slow hand-clapping by those frustrated at the delays.

The Immigration Services Union told the Daily Telegraph its members were seeing public disorder issues in queues at the airport, which have been up to half-a-mile long in recent days.

Spokeswoman Lucy Moreton said extra police would be more visible around the arrivals hall and they would move quickly to areas where staff feared trouble might break out.

However, Heathrow said it was unable to comment on where, when and how many extra police would be deployed as it was a matter for the Metropolitan Police. TravelMole has asked the Met Police Office for further information.

Meanwhile Heathrow is still advising passengers to avoid travelling to the airport by car as the M4 remains closed between junctions two and three, causing long traffic jams on the main routes into and out of the airport.

The motorway, which has been closed due to a crack in the road, is expected to reopen tomorrow.



By Linsey McNeill


Wednesday, July 11, 2012

[chinapattern]

Had to chuckle at PK describing how the service has gone from strength to strength! Still mustn't complain, at least they are still here!

[Monty Gordo]

From the Monarch thread it would appear that they are getting hammered at times in Manchester and also today at Gatwick. Does anyone know what the situation is in BHX, are they suffering the same level of delays.

In a year when Mon has upped its game and launched a raft of new destinations and set up at new airports, I fear this level of disruption to their schedules will do nothing to enhance their reputation.

[BHX5DME]

PALMA DE MALLORCA 45,467 up 18.72
DUBLIN 42,467 down -3.56
DUBAI 34,908 down -3.10
AMSTERDAM 34,120 down -16.54
ALICANTE 32,511 up 17.50
MALAGA 31,914 up 1.49
PARIS (CHARLES DE GAULLE) 31,879 up 15.32
DALAMAN 27,010 down -4.04
FARO 26,803 up 2.69
TENERIFE (SURREINA SOFIA) 26,086 up 10.50
IBIZA 23,983 up 10.65
FRANKFURT MAIN 23,637 down -0.46
ARRECIFE 16,314 up 13.94
LARNACA 14,902 up 3.96
MUNICH 14,456 up 3.77
DUSSELDORF 14,314 down -4.42
MAHON 13,405 up 12.40
CORFU 12,767 up 19.80
HERAKLION 12,201 down -0.88
PAPHOS 11,580 down -6.19
ZAKINTHOS 11,341 down -13.77
LAS PALMAS 10,590 up 17.48
ZURICH 10,524 down -17.57
MURCIA SAN JAVIER 10,226 up 8.80
ANTALYA 9,858 up 14.80
REUS 9,678 up 12.10
ROME (FIUMICINO) 9,559 up 6230.46
BRUSSELS 9,158 down -9.76
BODRUM (MILAS) 9,093 down -16.19
RHODES 8,988 up 14.32
NEW YORK (NEWARK) 8,899 down -1.82
ISLAMABAD 8,317 up 11.91
FUERTEVENTURA 8,105 down -12.44
ISTANBUL 7,904 up 100.97
MILAN (MALPENSA) 7,460 up 52.00
HANOVER 7,194 up 0.40
SHARM EL SHEIKH (OPHIRA) 7,045 up 32.62
GIRONA 7,038 up 25.21
CORK 6,712 up 5.32
COPENHAGEN 6,331 down -6.21
NICE 6,275 up 7.91
KOS 5,610 up 33.70
BURGAS 5,587 up 17.70
HAMBURG 5,184 up 102.42
ASHKHABAD 4,666 up 7.66
BERLIN (TEGEL) 4,538 up 3118.44
BRATISLAVA 4,418 down -1.60
BYDGOSZCZ 4,394 down -2.33
DUBROVNIK 4,379 up 84.38
KATOWICE 4,193 up 53.14
IZMIR (ADNAM MENDERES) 4,173 down -9.20
ALMERIA 4,121 up 24.01
BARCELONA 3,883 n/a
MALTA 3,879 down -6.87
VENICE 3,796 n/a
KEFALLINIA 3,420 down -11.51
NAPLES 3,367 up 88.42
STUTTGART 3,098 down -10.64
GDANSK 2,996 up 12.04
VERONA VILLAFRANCA 2,968 down -10.33
IRELAND WEST(KNOCK) 2,911 down -14.68
BUDAPEST 2,891 n/a
PRAGUE 2,888 n/a
KAUNAS 2,757 down -8.74
RZESZOW 2,708 down -13.70
TORONTO 2,700 up 5.88
MONTPELLIER 2,623 down -18.34
SHANNON 2,596 down -12.97
SANFORD 2,483 up 18.97
SKIATHOS 2,240 down -16.57
CANCUN 2,127 down -10.22
MONTEGO BAY 2,032 down -18.10
TRIESTE (RONCHI DEI LEGIONARI) 1,983 down -13.22
LISBON 1,892 up 715.52
THIRA (SANTORINI) 1,813 up 23.59
ILHA DO SAL C.VERDE 1,810 down -8.82
KAVALA 1,804 down -1.90
FUNCHAL 1,780 up 33.53
BOA VISTA (RABIL) 1,775 n/a
PULA 1,664 up 8.55
WATERFORD 1,380 up 30.19
CHANIA 1,193 n/a
INNSBRUCK 1,094 up 74.20
PADERBORN 983 down -7.09
SALZBURG 803 down -42.52
TARBES-LOURDES INTERNATIONAL 735 up 69.75
PERPIGNAN 561 n/a
LA ROCHELLE 512 down -49.21
BERGERAC 506 down -63.44
AVIGNON 503 up 22.68
KIEV (BORISPOL) 471 n/a
BREST 449 down -39.32
KRAKOW 437 n/a
DONETSK 376 n/a
BILLUND 221 n/a
GRANADA 208 n/a
COLOGNE BONN 203 n/a
LINZ 159 n/a
ROSKILDE 116 n/a
VIENNA 101 n/a
VARNA 68 n/a
KERRY COUNTY 50 n/a

[nwoody2001]

Is this too good to be true.... can anyone shed any light on it??

Qatar Airways plans Birmingham-Doha route

By Ian Taylor
Jul 19, 2012 08:23AM GMT



http://iphone.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/getAsset.aspx?ItemID=17053

Qatar Airways plans to fly from Birmingham airport after taking delivery of new aircraft later this year.

The carrier currently operates five services a day from Heathrow and 10 a week from Manchester to its base at Doha.

Akbar Al Baker, Qatar Airways chief executive, confirmed: “We are going to start operating [from Doha] to other UK airports. We will operate to three new destinations in the UK.”

Birmingham will be one of the airports, Al Baker told Travel Weekly, but he declined to identify the others. Asked when the services would begin, Al Baker said: “It depends how soon we get the additional aircraft from Boeing.”

The airline confirmed the Birmingham-Doha service would operate daily. A Birmingham airport spokesman appeared surprised at the news, but said: “We welcome the announcement by the Qatar Airways chief executive of services between Doha and Birmingham.”

Other UK airports under consideration, according to Qatar sources, include Edinburgh and a return to Gatwick. Travel Weekly understands Qatar is also considering a return to double-daily services from Manchester.

The airline cut its Manchester services from 14 to 10 at the end of March. Qatar withdrew from Gatwick in May 2011, arguing there was no feeder traffic on to long-haul flights at the airport and that domestic traffic “was not enough”.

Al Baker has previously announced Qatar is looking at other UK airports. He said last year: “We have several options.”

Birmingham is the UK’s third-largest airport outside London and the UK’s seventh largest overall, handling nine million passengers last year.



Qatar Airways plans Birmingham-Doha route (http://m.travelweekly.co.uk/Article.aspx?cat=news&id=41136)

[AMM626]

Qatar Airways plans Birmingham-Doha route
By Ian Taylor

Jul 19, 2012 08:23AM GMT

*
0 Comments

Qatar Airways plans to fly from Birmingham airport after taking delivery of new aircraft later this year.

The carrier currently operates five services a day from Heathrow and 10 a week from Manchester to its base at Doha.

Akbar Al Baker, Qatar Airways chief executive, confirmed: “We are going to start operating [from Doha] to other UK airports. We will operate to three new destinations in the UK.”

Birmingham will be one of the airports, Al Baker told Travel Weekly, but he declined to identify the others. Asked when the services would begin, Al Baker said: “It depends how soon we get the additional aircraft from Boeing.”

The airline confirmed the Birmingham-Doha service would operate daily. A Birmingham airport spokesman appeared surprised at the news, but said: “We welcome the announcement by the Qatar Airways chief executive of services between Doha and Birmingham.”

Other UK airports under consideration, according to Qatar sources, include Edinburgh and a return to Gatwick. Travel Weekly understands Qatar is also considering a return to double-daily services from Manchester.

The airline cut its Manchester services from 14 to 10 at the end of March. Qatar withdrew from Gatwick in May 2011, arguing there was no feeder traffic on to long-haul flights at the airport and that domestic traffic “was not enough”.

Al Baker has previously announced Qatar is looking at other UK airports. He said last year: “We have several options.”

Birmingham is the UK’s third-largest airport outside London and the UK’s seventh largest overall, handling nine million passengers last year.

Qatar Airways plans Birmingham-Doha route (http://m.travelweekly.co.uk/Article.aspx?cat=news&id=41136)

[Planeaddict]

Now that's something I've been waiting to hear for over a year.

[Daza]

More great news! Add this to the full service airlines expanding at BHX and of course Monarch a good year!

[chinapattern]

I'm assuming then QR plans to launch BHX with the 787? They are supposed to be getting x5 by the end of the year so I guess it's possible, I know the first one is scheduled to operate to LHR and a second was rumoured for MAN but I'm not sure if that was ever confirmed. Fingers crossed!

Also worth noting that BA/BMI have axed Heathrow-Yerevan from October, a route I was surprised to read has been operating since 1997. If Armavia do launch BHX I hope they take full advantage of this gap in the UK-Armenia market.

[crewmeal]

No chance of EK's 380 coming in now!! Well done to QR. Hope the crews enjoy the turnaround. Hope there will be an increase in ME traffic and that EK's numbers are not watered down.

[splash&dash]

Good news 'if' it happens.
Qatar have been talking about flights to BHX for many years.
This would be ideal for a daily 787 to start with.
As for EK? Hmm crewmeal I wouldn't be so sure. Didn't EK throw an A380 on the MAN route when Qatar started from there to counteract?
A little competition would be no harm, so both will try to outdo each other with fares and service products. 787 v 777 or 787 v 380? Good for customers and BHX!

[chinapattern]

I wonder what kind of timings they'd be thinking off? An AM departure would certainly have an advantage over EK but what kind of connections would that offer? Would ATQ be viable?

[OltonPete]

chinapattern[/B

Amritsar departs at 0700 from Doha and arrives back 15.40 so to connect it would have to be an evening departure from BHX and I can't believe it if they don't link the two at least three to four times a week out of the seven.

I think some patience might be required as Helsinki hit the press in November and even the QR website by November and I still can't find any flights bookable.

I know aircraft availability has been a major problem for Qatar though, which combined with the falling EK figures has made this a surprise.

[B]splash&dash

I can't comment on the EK 380 but certainly they reacted to Qatar going double daily at Manchester by announcing the third daily and hence all the problems since with empty seats at Manchester and BHX.

However things have improved at Manchester and even EK managed to get load factors above 70% in June (low season) at BHX.

Lufthansa

Winter Frankfurt now loaded as 06.10 departure as a LH 733 back at 22.15

In between a 733 early morning, 319 midday and a 735 in the evening but I realise that this could change.

Pete

[Ringwayman]

QR started at MAN around April 2003 (doubled 2011). EY started in March 2006 (doubled 2011) EK's A380s started September 2010 after going double daily in June 2003, with the 3rd flight in 2011.

The expectation is that MAN will be restored to double daily.

What QR did at MAN when they 1st went to daily was a split operation of 3 morning services and 4 afternoon services. I'm tempted to think they may do the same at BHX - just depends how it all ties in with the connecting wave in Doha.

[crewmeal]

There are plenty of opportunities to fly to the Far East from Doha with excellent services to cities in China and Australia. Perhaps QR may invest in BHX before someone else does, especially with the lengthening of the runway. QR are not fools when it comes to planning and have invested well in the UK in the past. Now might be a good time to expand into the regions. if it fails they can always pull off the route like they did at LGW.

A Birmingham airport spokesman appeared surprised at the news, but said: “We welcome the announcement by the Qatar Airways chief executive of services between Doha and Birmingham.”

I find that again BHX management have failed in marketing routes. What exactly do these people do in their ivory towers? It's not the sort of statement they should admit to the world. The statement should read something like "We welcome Qatar to the Midlands and we are working to form a partnership that will benefit both the airline and customers"

[GayFriendly]

Fabulous news if this happens but as other have said caution and patience is needed as QR have revealed destination plans before (including BHX) and they have not come off. I would not at all be surprised by EDI though (that has been rumoured for ages now).

As an aside, this is something I don't understand. I am looking to go away in Oct half term and checked out both NCE and BCN. These both finish with ZB the Sat half term starts.......I then remembered that FR are starting BCN, only to find that this doesn't start till 7th Nov. One way fares on legacy carriers are horrendous. Happily FCO and VCE are possible though so thats where I may go. I know that both routes were seasonal anyway but wonder why are both airlines missing out on half term traffic on these routes? First week of Nov seems very strange for FR to be starting new routes.

[Monty Gordo]

Rather strange that a full 24 hours after QR announced BHX - Doha there is still no news/confirmation on the official BHX website. Still flagging up four new routes for RYR and SAS to Stockholm.

I would have thought this was news the airport would have shouted from the rooftops. Is the media unit at the aiport all on holiday?

[revo]

The reason why it's not on the airport website is it hasn't been officially announced, its just been mentioned as one of their new routes. No date stated so we will just have to wait and see

Revo

[simoncorbett]

Taken from the Armavia web site... now saying 3 times a week ...!!

2012-07-19
Discover UK with Armavia. Direct flight Yerevan –Birmingham starting on 25th July 2012.

Starting from 25th July 2012 Armavia launches direct regular flight Yerevan – Birmingham – Yerevan 3 times a week.

The flight makes good connections on the following directions:
- Birmingham – Yerevan – Amritsar
- Amritsar – Yerevan – Birmingham

[simoncorbett]

At least BHX is in drop down destination list on Qatar web site, but no flights are av............. but Helsinki to Doha is av to book now

[chinapattern]

I find that again BHX management have failed in marketing routes. What exactly do these people do in their ivory towers? It's not the sort of statement they should admit to the world. The statement should read something like "We welcome Qatar to the Midlands and we are working to form a partnership that will benefit both the airline and customers"

Perhaps they were just caught slightly off-guard and we're not expecting any announcement from QR until a definitive start date had been finalised.

[BobBHX]

Great news. If the pricing is right I will certainly use them for my trips to South East Asia. I flew QR out of CDG earlier this year and was very impressed with the C class product and service. Only drawbacks were the time from plane to terminal at Doha and how crowded the C class lounge was (even more so than the Emirates lounge at DXB). Hopefully these will both be sorted out when the new airport opens in December.

EK will have to up their game considerably to compete. The regular delays are unacceptable and the pricing can be very uncompetitive.

[canberra97]

Although I am glad that BHX has secured another international airline and a new route to Yerevan by the Armenian flag carrier Armavia can some explain why they chose BHX as their UK destination rather then a London airport, is their any particular reeason for this as I would be interested to know!

[Ringwayman]

It's all about the Amritsar link. Been numerous links going BHX-"eastern Europe"-Amritsar in the past, and there will be in the future.

[crewmeal]

I got quite excited when I saw this update from Armavia linking BHX and AMM.

Armavia Starts Amman / Birmingham Service in S12 | Airline Route (http://airlineroute.net/2012/07/20/u8-ammbhx-s12/)

Sadly the timings are well and truly useless.

[nigel osborne]

Crewmeal,

Re Armavia... timings are great for spotters :O :ok:

Whether it turns up..well this is BHX so who knows !:\

Nigel

[hillwalker2004]

Interesting that on the Qatar route destinations it has Edinburgh, Belfast and Aberdeen on the map although no connections as of yet. Surely they are not the three new cities QR are referring too?!

[Ringwayman]

Perhaps those 3 destinations have something to do with being codesharing options that existed with BD down to LHR?

[Norsemanuk]

Understand that FlyBe axing this route with effect from September'12.
No doubt that LH has forced them out as with FRA previously.
If STR gets the chop,wonder if LH will commence this important route for the motorindustry?:hmm:

[OltonPete]

Norsemanuk

Sunday 9th September seems to be the last flybe Hamburg. It was never
going to able to compete against a double daily Lufthansa service and load factors have been awful in general. I can't see any replacement rotation for the aircraft as yet.

STR - Manchester has seen LH change into Germanwings and as yet the 175
is scheduled for winter but this could change.

Ryanair

BHX-BCN still showing four a week for winter despite FR's press release today reducing their BCN based flights. However the aircraft is BHX based though.

Canaries still show reductions - TFS & ACE 3 -2 a week and LPA & ACE go from 2 to 1 a week.

The last Dublin now shows BHX based aircraft operating all week.

Still no Malta but it could still be worked in Mon/Fri.

Monarch - Deliberately changed their first ever BHX-NCE to a Monarch own aircraft rather than the leased-in 733, which will operate the route.

BHX-BCN starts later today.
Pete

[OltonPete]

Sources

Passenger figures: CAA
Average Pax and percentages: libhomeradar & a BHX blog.

2011 in brackets.

Some are estimates as usual due to bank holiday cancellations, consolidations and tech aircraft which not all were noted by me.

I have 2005 as the record June for passenger figures over 960000 but ATM's shown as above 10500 compared to 8024 in 2012 not doubt to loads of 145's in 2005 compared to few in 2012.

I compared last years June's load factors and as you would expect the sun routes are 5-10% up in general and slight reductions in some business routes again possibly due to the Bank Holidays.

PALMA DE MALLORCA--26622(19794)--160 pax--89%
DUBLIN-- 42,467(44034)--121 pax--69%
DUBAI-- 34,908(36024)--291 pax--73%
AMSTERDAM-- 34,120(40881)--105--80%
ALICANTE-- 28502(24127)--166 pax--90%
MALAGA--30100(29709)--164 pax--89%
PARIS--31,879(27564)--96 pax--83%
DALAMAN--9725(4974)--195 PAX--94%
FARO--20464(19567)--176 PAX--92%
TENERIFE-14558(14129)--192 PAX--95%
IBIZA--12555(9972)--179 pax--90%
FRANKFURT--23,637(23747)--100 pax--62%
ARRECIFE--10929(8505)--182 pax--92%
LARNACA--7987(5036)--182 pax--96%
MUNICH-- 14,456(13931)--89 pax--73%
DUSSELDORF-- 14,314(14976)--43 pax--52%
MAHON--7191(6144)-200 pax--93%
HERAKLION--3201(nil)--178 pax--93%
PAPHOS--4628(3192)--178 pax--90%
LAS PALMAS--7413(5553)-177 pax--90%
ZURICH-- 10,524(12767)--70 pax--73%
MURCIA-- 10,226(9399)--146 pax-87%
REUS--4048(3853)--156 pax-82%
ROME (FCO)--9,559(nil)--123 pax-73%
BRUSSELS-- 9,158(10148)--41 pax-50%
BODRUM--4177(2736)--166 pax-85%
NEWARK--8,899(9064)-148 pax-88%
ISLAMABAD--8,317(7432)--245 pax-70%
FUERTEVENTURA--6317(5203)-175-87%
ISTANBUL--7,904(3933)--132 pax-83%
MILAN MXP-7372(4908)-78 pax-58%
HANOVER--5190(5068)-52 pax-66%
GIRONA--5683(4077)--167 pax-88%
CORK--6,712(6373)--46 pax--64%
COPENHAGEN--6,331(6602)--72 pax--68%
NICE 6,275(5815)--121 pax--81%
HAMBURG--5,184(2561)-35 pax--40%
ASHKHABAD 4,666(4334)--137 pax--73%
BERLIN (TXL) --4,538(nil)--81 pax-59%
BRATISLAVA--4,418(4490)--170 pax--90%
BYDGOSZCZ--4,394(4499)--169 pax--89%
DUBROVNIK--3044(761)-117 pax--77%
KATOWICE--4,193(2738)-161 pax--85%
ALMERIA--3235(3323)-202 pax--95%
BARCELONA--3,883(nil)114 pax--77%
MALTA--3101(2579)--172 pax--91%
VENICE--3,796(nil)--109 pax--63%
STUTTGART-- 3,098(3467)-- 35 pax--45%
GDANSK 2,996(2674)--166 pax--88%
KNOCK-2,911(3412)--50 pax--54%
BUDAPEST--2,891(nil)--161 pax--85%
PRAGUE 2,888(nil)--120 pax-81%
KAUNAS 2,757(3021)--172 pax--91%
RZESZOW 2,708(3138)-169 pax-90%
TORONTO 2,700--338 pax--98.3%!!!!
MONTPELLIER 2,623(3212)--146 pax-77%
SHANNON 2,596(2983)--43 pax--60%
TRIESTE--1,983(2285)--124 pax--66%
LISBON--1,892(nil)-105 pax-71%
WATERFORD --1,380(1060)-30 pax--38%
PERPIGNAN-- 561(nil)--56 pax--72%
LA ROCHELLE 512(1008)--51 pax--66%
BERGERAC 506(1384)--51 pax--65%
AVIGNON 503(410)--50 pax--65%
BREST- 449(740)--45 pax-58%

Pete

[Norsemanuk]

The following taken from Business Traveller 23rd July Quote

Qatar Airways confirms Birmingham flights



Published: 23/07/2012 - Filed under: News (http://www.businesstraveller.com/news) »

Gulf carrier (http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/qatar-airways-confirms-birmingham-flights#) Qatar Airways has confirmed that it will launch flights from Birmingham airport, its third UK destination, and is also in talks with two other unnamed UK airports.
A statement issued by the carrier reads:
“Qatar Airways is committed to the UK market, where we currently operate 45 non-stop flights each week between the UK and the State of Qatar. Our UK capacity is currently split between two airports, five-times-a-day to London Heathrow and ten flights each week to Manchester.
“The UK represents the largest single European market for Qatar Airways with the high level of frequencies we operate. Naturally, as part of our growth plans, we are considering opening up new UK gateways to offer customers more choice.
“We can confirm we are planning to launch passenger flights to Birmingham, but are not yet in a position to announce a date nor schedules.
“As for the other two UK airports we are interested in, we cannot comment further on these as we are currently in the process of carrying out feasibility studies.”
For more information visit qatarairways.com (http://www.qatarairways.com/index.html)
Unquote


:ok:
t











































http://images.intellitxt.com/ast/tt/09/loading.gif

[j636]

flybe to drop hamburg in september

[crewmeal]

A more cautious approach for Qatar Airways route to BHX

Qatar Airways planning to start Birmingham flights | ABTN (http://www.abtn.co.uk/news/2317624-qatar-airways-planning-start-birmingham-flights)

[chinapattern]

Another forum suggesting December 15th as a tentative starting date.

[getonittt]

BHX arrivals have the first service from yerevan arriving this morning.
How do they get instant pax??? :confused:

[crewmeal]

Freebies, there are enough of them floating round. Maybe they will travel to the Olympics, maybe they will have their team onboard.

We'll wait for the fire engine's hose and PK's welcoming committee!

[GayFriendly]

“We can confirm we are planning to launch passenger flights to Birmingham, but are not yet in a position to announce a date nor schedules

There is a big difference between saying 'confirm we are planning to' and (which they have said) and 'going to launch' (which they haven't).....although I must admit it would now be more of a surprise if they didn't as they will have the right type of equipment in the 787 for this route, I guess any start date depends on a/c delivery and availability. I wonder how EK will react?

[Daza]

Flybe are to commence 15 weekly (up to 3x daily flights) to Amsterdam from the winter season. Showing as Dash eights! The route needs some competition.:)
Daza

[nigel osborne]

Crewmeal,

Qatar Air website now shows Bhx as a Qatar station , sure this has been added within the last week.

Also seems they are recruiting for their BHX flights already, so this should signal a start within the next 6 months perhaps.

Nigel

[hillwalker2004]

Birmingham is down as a Qatar station but only recruitment I can find relates to a campaign that expired in 2010. Still, to be shown as a station at all hopefully shows that the wheels are in motion.

[GayFriendly]

nigel/hillwalker

I think you will find that the campaign you are referring to was a recruitment event for cabin crew in Oct 2010 held in the Radisson Hotel in Brum for DOH based crew. As far as I know all cabin crew are based in DOH but just like EK, QR have recruitment days in cities all round the world, however this does not signify that they are going to start flights to those cities. I'm not sure though where they recruit ground staff from, I suppose that would by online application or transfers from within the company?

The fact that BHX is now in the drop down list of destinations (and I am sure it wasn't there a few weeks ago) signifies positive news on this?

[chinapattern]

Browsing through the destinations Dublin, Belfast, Glasgow and Edinburgh are also listed but I'm guessing these are code-shares through BMI? Interesting that Gatwick wasn't listed as a destination though. I wonder if Edinburgh and Belfast could be the other two cities?

[justplanecrazy84]

Great news on QR, armavia and flybe! Is it me or are things really starting to pick up at BHX?

[ATNotts]

There seems to be deal of hysteria about a route that has not actually been announced; no start date, no flight numbers, not bookable - in fact little more than a collection of press releases

Of course I very much hope it happens, but until it is properly announced, and is bookable, myself I remain more than a tad sceptical. I might begin to get slightly excited if Qatar actually acquire slots at BHX.

Remember Gulf Air a few years ago - and I think they had actually given their service flight numbers!

[nigel osborne]

Justplanecrazy 84

Don't get over excited. Qatar would be a massive boost for BHX as are the extra TK flights, Monarch expansion and some BE routes.

However at present Thomas Cook are showing over 30% cut in capacity next summer with a plane less and BMI Baby will have gone..

Canadian Affair plod along next summer with just 1 weekly Air Transat flight still,despite virtually every seat being sold this summer. Orlando also just 1 flt a week next year.

Still in this never ending recession it could be much worse so we should be satisfied.:D

Nigel

[crewmeal]

Good to see Turkish increasing their operation to 10 services a week from next summer.

Turkish Airlines S13 Birmingham / Dublin Service Increase | Airline Route – Worldwide Airline Route Updates (http://airlineroute.net/2012/07/30/tk-europe-s13update2/)

Additionally they are also launching new flights to the Maldives.

Turkish Airlines to Launch Maldives Service from late-Nov 2012 | Airline Route – Worldwide Airline Route Updates (http://airlineroute.net/2012/07/30/tk-mle-w12/)

Timings should fit nicely as well. It seems EK really do have some competition on their hands, along with QR if they start operations.

[GayFriendly]

I am having trouble finding info about these exactly when these flights operate. I want to book to go to ATQ, the Armavia website allows for bookings until Dec at a bargain price of $200 each way but I want to go in Jan and it will not allow bookings after 31st Dec. It also says that there are 3 weekly flights but when you try to book they only seem to go on Wednesdays until the end of Dec, BHX or ATQ do not feature in their online timetable. The BHX website does not list Yerevan in their online timetable either!! Does anyone know what days these flights go or even better of there is a local travel agent I can book with instead - PM me please if you have any info! Both parties could be doing better on the promo side of things - will this be another Aerosvit???

[Evanelpus]

I am having trouble finding info about these exactly when these flights operate. I want to book to go to ATQ, the Armavia website allows for bookings until Dec at a bargain price of $200 each way but I want to go in Jan and it will not allow bookings after 31st Dec. It also says that there are 3 weekly flights but when you try to book they only seem to go on Wednesdays until the end of Dec, BHX or ATQ do not feature in their online timetable.

Given previous attempts to use these types of routes to get to the Indian sub continent, I predict Armavia won't even make it to December.:D

[ATNotts]

Gayfriendly

If I'm not mistaken these flights are normally sold by specialist travel agents, largely marketing to the ex-pat Punjabi community - and not sold directly by the airline, or through any of the online booking agencies.

I guess if you really want to use the routing via Yerevan then a wander down the Stratford Road in Sparkhill my prove fruitful - me, I think I'd go for a less adventurous route!

[groundedforgood]

Seems to be most/all flights end in December, dunno what they're playing at! Probably a more solid itinerary than previous carriers on this route.

[justplanecrazy84]

Correct me if i'm wrong here but Thomson seem to do quite well on the long haul leisure routes out of bhx why don't ThomasCcook start doing long haul leisure routes or even Monarch?

[nigel osborne]

Monarch and TCX are getting rid of some of their long haul planes so no chance of new flts out of BHX unless they drop routes from LGW/MAN which isn't going to happen.

TOM have a crazy policy of splitting their long hauls half to BHX and half to EMA. So close together can't be cost effective.:ugh:

Hopefully when BHX gets its runway extension,they will stop messing about and base a B787 all week at BHX.:ok:

Nigel

[crewmeal]

Does the 787 really need the extra runway? I thought the performance wasn't an issue with this type of aircraft.

I'm sure I read somewhere that BRS will come before BHX for Thomson's fleet of 787's.

[justplanecrazy84]

I thought the first TOM 787 was being based at EMA and was going to be used on some BHX long haul leisure routes?

[OltonPete]

justplanecrazy84

East Midlands has just two weekly long-haul flights bookable thus far for summer 2013, which is good in one sense as it will be the 787 operating and I suppose that it is based for two consecutive days. BHX doesn't do much better with the 763, which operates three flights in summer 2013.

crewmeal

As I understood it BHX, BRS and NCL will come on-line at a later date in respect of the 787. They have actually gone for the regional airports with the longer runways for summer 2013. I am not sure what the plan is in winter 2013 for the cruise flights but maybe BHX will pick one up then.

Pete

[Monty Gordo]

As the last couple of entries re Bhx have been about long-haul flights, does anyone have any info on what progress is being made re runway extension. It has been, thus far, a difficult and often wet summer. Has that delayed matters or is the construction company on track for the scheduled finish date.

[nigel osborne]

Crewmeal,

It needs 9,200ft to destinations such as Cuba, Dominican Republic and BHX only has 8,560ft ish at present.

Expect TOM would only base one at BHX if it could do the longest routes as well as the ones currently flying from BHX.

Nigel

[nigel osborne]

Monty Gordo;

Had a peak at the runway work Fri.

Utility companies finishing off the last of the sewer,fuel pipe work. Lot of archaeological work going on middle of the siterequired before its buried under concrete.

They have just put up 20 porta cabins rear of the closed Clock pub,and built a hardcore road from them along the edge of the field linking up with theColas site cabins in Clock Lane.

A large area of a field off Clock Lane has had hardcore put down, where all the large earth moving equipment will be parked for the new A45 to be built.

They were supposed to start the new road, end of July,so Id say they have lost a couple of weeks to the weather, which isn't bad.
:ok:

Nigel

[Monty Gordo]

Nigel Osborne - Thanks for the update, a couple of weeks behind schedule is not too bad considering the awful weather and it is a delay that can be caught up, I am sure.

However, what is the plan for the crucial bit ie extending the runway itself. Will that be undertaken at night and/or will flights be curtailed during this stage of the operation?

[nigel osborne]

Monty Gordo;

The plan is..road extension to be complete end of May 2013, runway extension to start same month and be complete end of 2013.Seems impossible to me but thats what BHX are now saying?

I would say some night closures and loss of Cat 3 whilst they move the ILS back and join the old ,and new runway extension.

Am trying to figure out how they can knock down the hilly bit to the side of the petrol station ,and keep the runway light posts plonked on top, at present going at the same time.Answers on a post card ?

Nigel

[revo]

Maybe they will try and use 15 as much as possible? Except in strong winds from W etc when there would be too much of a tailwind for 15?

Only a suggestion?

Revo

[Guest 112233]

OK its been about 15 years since I passed through that spot on the A45 where the 33 approach lights cross the road - But from memory the ground actually dips away quite steeply from the approach lighting to the right, going towards (Cov) - I have seen pictures of the extension at the 15 end that required very substantial earthworks - The evidence of this can still be seen today with a drop off of the embankment as you look towards the Radleys and what seems to be a displaced threshold. You get a fleeting glimpse from the Train to Euston/NEC.

[Edit: How did EGNX manage in similar circumstances -]

CAT III

[FlyboyUK]

A reduction in the 33 landing lights length has already been notamed. Leads to an increased RVR for Cat1, but no effect on Cat II or Cat II as the decision on those approaches is much closer to the threshold an over the approach lights that are still in use.

[nigel osborne]

Thanks both,

What worries me looking at the latest plans is the green shaded areas set back either side of the runway extension,looks like some sort of long noise bund.

If true there will be no view of the runway extension or 200metres before .:confused: :eek::{

Hope my TD is rubbish and Im reading it wrong.

Nigel

[fjencl]

Birmingham airport is 82 miles from Luton, 90 miles from Manchester, Yet the distance between Edinburgh and Glasgow airports is just 48 miles.

Does Birmingham qualify to be a contender to become a next possible easyjet base.

What are your thoughts on this........?????

[nigel osborne]

Easy Jet,

Well apparently Easy Jet have been saying the same thing about BHX for years and repeated it recently..yield would not be high enough out of BHX to warrant a base..so LTN/STN yield is higher then ??::eek:

Nigel

[ATNotts]

Easyjet

The demise (well slow death) of BMI Baby would have given EZY the chance to develope at BHX but Monarch got in first, and now I can't see that given the likely route network of the usual bucket and spade destinations, EZY would find easy to get a foothold in BHX - the local economy is afterall not that great at the moment either.

That said, EZY obviously feel there is money to be made at BHX, with the new BFS service on the horizon, a more likely scenario than a base would be selected inbound services from existing bases.

[crewmeal]

That said, EZY obviously feel there is money to be made at BHX, with the new BFS service on the horizon, a more likely scenario than a base would be selected inbound services from existing bases.

Perhaps EZY is dipping its 'toe in the water' If the routes pay off as GVA in the winter does , there could be other opportunities in the future.

[simoncorbett]

monty gordo,revo,nigelosborne

I had a close look this morning towards area on south side of runway 33, there are now many more diggers in evidence..... i have also noticed all the runway lights have now been removed to south side of A45.....leaving the row in middle of the dual carriageway as the 1st now

Simon

[paul atkins]

2012 News - Flights - MONARCH LAUNCHES BIRMINGHAM GIBRALTAR ROUTE


14 08 2012


Monarch, the leading scheduled leisure airline is to launch flights to Gibraltar as part of the carrier’s expansion of its Birmingham network of routes for summer 2013.

Offering three flights a week from the West Midlands airport, the service will start on 23 March 2013, with tickets now on sale.
The flight from Birmingham will depart on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays at 6.35am, arriving in Gibraltar at 10.30am. The return flight will depart Gibraltar at 11.15am, arriving in Birmingham at 1.10pm.

“We are delighted to be introducing what we are sure will be a popular route,” Kevin George, Managing Director of Monarch Airlines said. “We have carried out a lot of research to understand the routes our customers want and we are confident that a service from Birmingham to Gibraltar will meet their demands.”

Commenting on the developments Gibraltar Government Minister of Tourism, Public Transport and the Port, The Hon. Neil Costa, said ’We are delighted that Monarch Airlines has decided to provide a service from the Midlands to Gibraltar and that their decision will bring great commercial opportunity all round.

Monarch has also introduced new routes from Birmingham to both Barcelona and Nice this year and expanded the frequency of flights to Malaga, Majorca, Alicante, Faro, Rome, Dalaman, Ibiza and Tenerife.

Flights start at £44.99 including taxes and charges and can be booked online at Monarch | Cheap Flights, Holidays & Hotels (http://www.monarch.co.uk)

- Ends -

[Daza]

Great news another new route from BHX!

[OltonPete]

Seems to be nine based Monarch next summer with just a few gaps so possibly one more new route or increased frequencies.

Some winter pruning started with Venice and Milan cut to three weekly from the original four. Some of these new routes did sound ambitious for winter.

Pete

[GayFriendly]

Great news, a long overdue route from BHX. It would seem at long last that in ZB, BHX has a no frills carrier that is determined to make the most of unfulfilled route opportunities from BHX unlike static (but to be fair very loyal) BE and sulky old FR (although they have given us BUD). All this ZB expansion though I agree makes it all the more unlikely for an EZY base. Is it now needed with ZB being so proactive, perhaps they will introduce some more W-pattern routes instead? I wonder what will be next for ZB - NAP, PSA, VLC would fit in well, perhaps LYS, OPO and ATH as outside chances? LIS and PRG go unserved after WW close down but would have thought these have already been evaluated and perhaps turned down as ZB were very quick to get established on BCN and NCE.

[OltonPete]

Figures from the CAA

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport_data_prov/201207/July_2012_Provisional_Airport_Statistics.pdf

BHX July 2012 976759 up 4.1% Rolling year 8712104 up 0.7%

Air Transport Movements 8220 +1.5% rolling year 83579 -1/3%

So the magic Million missed but not surprising as it was a big ask

Despite the overall excellent figure some hefty decreases on one or two business routes.

The shocker is EDI and GLA which combined were down only a couple of hundred but I am sure flybe would have hoped to pick up some of the 15800 that travelled EMA - GLA & EDI in the previous July.

Pete

[chinapattern]

Did anyone see Monarch making the main headline on Midlands Today last night? It concerned the Air Explore 737 operating for them which had to make an emergency landing in France due to a sudden loss of cabin pressure a few weeks ago. They typically over-sensationalised the story as they usually do and while I realise it must have been a bad experience for the passengers it really isn't the sort of pubilicity that either BHX or MON need IMO.

[Monty Gordo]

After spending a life working in the media I can see both sides of this story. The fact that passengers, so they say, clearly heard the captain calling 'mayday' would be sufficient for their to be a story and the attendant publicity.

However, on the benefit side is the fact that clearly the flight crew DID have a problem and that they dealt with it speedily and efficiently. The plane landed safely and no-one was injured. Not a nice experience but a safe conclusion.

I really don't think this will harm Monarch, more that it will give passengers the comfort of knowing they can fly with an airline that can deal with problems as and when they arise.

If you want long-term and lasting bad publicity, consider Air France and some of the debacles they have been involved with, particularly their ill-fated flight from Rio.

[OltonPete]

chinapattern

Did they pick up on the fact it was also tech yesterday as well? Monarch sorted that one by combining the two Palma's on an A300, which did result in the first lot of pax suffering a seven hour delay. A bit of a surprise if you expected a 734 and an A300 turns up!

Air France

The evening CRJ1000 flight in winter is showing as an A319 Monday to Saturday and the Saturday morning AF2064/5 is also showing as an A319.

No surprise considering load factor was a staggering 87% in July - me thinks they have picked up some BMI Baby EMA-CDG pax not like EDI & GLA.

Pete

[OltonPete]

Monthly figures provided by the CAA, the average pax per a BHX blog and libhomeradar with load factors estimated based on airline configs.

In general the reduction in business route frequencies has helped with load factors such as CPH, BRU & DUS. AMS & CDG have been affected by BMI Baby route closures in the Midlands.

Berlin looks pretty good for a new route as does Rome. Milan has too much capacity but 61% is not too bad. Turkish continues its improvement with several A321's in July.

Long-haul was affected to the East by Ramadan but EK was not that bad despite the heaviest % decrease of all UK airports. PIA was very low.

Turkmen was down passenger wise but load factors held due to the 737.

BRUSSELS/7292(8592)/43 PAX/54%
LARNACA/8160(5595)/185 PAX/94%
PAPHOS/4887(3018)/188 PAX/93%
COPENHAGEN/4347(5126)/68 PAX/73%
AVIGNON/838(785)/42 PAX 40%
BERGERAC/1089(1966)/45 PAX/56%
BREST/973(1460)/61/68%
LA ROCHELLE/905(1324)/50 PAX/65%
LYON/NIL(2975)
MONTPELLIER/2665(4645)/148 PAX/78%
NICE/9084(6859)/111/74%
PARIS/34294(27966)/99 PAX/87%
PERPIGNAN/728(NIL)/46 PAX/58%
BERLIN TXL/6617(NIL)/107/77%
DUSSELDORF/14757(14755)/47 PAX/55%
FRANKFURT/26081(27948)/105 PAX/66%
HAMBURG/4324(3179)/42 PAX/52%
HANOVER/5681(5716)/57 PAX/73%
MUNICH/15936(14963)/86 PAX/70%
STUTTGART/3022(3376)/34 PAX/43%
HERAKLION/3066(NIL)/170 PAX/87%
CORK/7415(7259)/49 PAX/69%
DUBLIN/45257(48215)/132 PAX/72%
KNOCK/3243(4257)/52 PAX/79%
SHANNON/2857(3368)/46 PAX/70%
WATERFORD/1336(1361)/37 PAX/52%
MILAN/8071(5652)/119 PAX/61%
ROME FCO/11757(NIL)/140 PAX/83%
VENICE/5006(NIL)/139 PAX/80%
TRIESTE/2405(2876)/134 PAX/71%
MALTA/3088(2950)/172 PAX/91%
AMSTERDAM/33891(43202)/92 PAX/80%
FARO/22736(21028)/170 PAX/90%
LISBON/2280(NIL)/127 PAX/85%
ALICANTE/30760(25763)/164 PAX/90%
ALMERIA/3666(3051)/204 PAX/95%
ARCELONA/6186(NIL)/124 PAX/78%
GIRONA/5961(4575)/166 PAX/88%
IBIZA/13683(10901)/185 PAX/96%
MAHON/6911(6867)/203 PAX/95%
MALAGA/37198(32382)/168 PAX/92%
MURCIA/10433(10353)/149 PAX/88%
PALMA/28948(22493)/159 PAX/89%
REUS/4105(4163)/158 PAX/84%
ARRECIFE/11415(9139)/184 PAX/93%
FUERTEVENTURA/8357(6264)/190 PAX/97%
LAS PALMAS/8349(6262)/190 PAX/97%
TENERIFE/16096(15441)/183 PAX/90%
GOTHENBURG/NIL(312)
DUBROVNIK/3231(990)/115 PAX/80%
ZURICH/13574(14349)/73 PAX/74%
BODRUM/4161(3131)/160 PAX/92%
ISTANBUL/8365(5252)/135 PAX/81%
DALAMAN/10969(6202)/189 PAX/92%
PRAGUE/3486(NIL)/125 PAX/85%
BUDAPEST/2676(NIL)167 PAX/88%
KAUNAS/3098(3163)/172 PAX/91%
BYDGOSZCZ/4562(4647)/175 PAX/93%
GDANSK/3135(3258)/174 PAX/92%
KATOWICE/4437(3239)/171 PAX/90%
RZESNOW/3181(3289)/177 PAX/94%
BRATISLAVA/4540(4664)/175PAX/92%
ASHKHABAD/4995(5479)/139 PAX/81%
YEREVAN ????????????????
DUBAI/38863(46390)/313 PAX/77%
ISLAMABAD/7966(8922)/221 PAX/64%
TORONTO/2675(2605)/334 PAX/98%
NEWARK/8955(8851)/145 PAX/86%

Pete

[ssflyer]

Thanks,as usual, to OP.
Just an aside, as FR never have a full load of PAX due to loading/balance advice from Boeing and leave the 12 seats in rows 3 & 4 empty for take off and landing a full load of PAX would show up as 94%.

[EI-A330-300]

Waterford LF has improved with the reduction from daily to 3/4 weekly.

[ssflyer]

:ok:Thanks Flyboy for the techie answer.

[chinapattern]

Considering the consistently high load factor to YYZ surely there is more potential BHX-Canada?

[nigel osborne]

Chinapattern,

YYZ hads hit 98% for past 3 years and still they won't add more flights.Canadian Affair have been bussing overflow from Birmingham to Manchester.:=

However at least we still have a flight, Cardiff and Newcastle have lost theirs.:{

Manchester see their capacity to YYZ down 10% next summer.An extra flight ,but most reduced from A330s to A310s.

However Sunwing will probably pick up the slack their with 767 flts.:rolleyes:

Nigel

[OltonPete]

EI-A330-300 - I cheated a bit by using 50 seats for the days the F50 operated and it would have been a lower load factor if the Q400 operated.

Hamburg

Lufthansa are reducing the service in winter six weekly - Sunday-Friday only from 11 weekly this summer.

Departure time ex BHX is 14.45.

Flybe finish this route in a few weeks.

Pete

[cloudy1]

Olton Pete
------------

You generally seem to be a man in the know, do you know how many aircraft Monarch intend to have based at Birmingham for this current winter??? November to end of March???

Thanks in advance for the info. Rgds.......

[TartinTon]

4 Monarch based a/c for the winter

[OltonPete]

cloudy1

As TartinTon has said it now appears to be four although Thursday's show five morning departures.

The original release required six but there were several gaps which have been been filled by re-timing some flights and cutting rotations to Venice and Milan from four to three a week. The schedule will be something like this: -

Monday

1) AGP & ALC
2) MUC & LPA
3) MXP & FNC
4) TFS

Tuesday

1) VCE
2) FCO
3) TFS
4) SSH

Wednesday

1) TFS
2) LCA
3) FUE
4) MXP

Thursday

1) SSH
2) ACE
3) VCE MUC
4) FCO GNB from late Dec
5) FAO (I assume it will be FAO - ACE although not in November due BHX annual night closure)

Friday

1) TFS
2) FCO FNC
3) ALC MUC
4) AGP MXP

Saturday

1) MUC VCE
2) GNB ALC
3) AGP TFS
4) GVA IT I assume

Sunday

1) ALC ACE
2) FAO LCA
3) AGP TFS
4) GNB (VCE in Nov) FCO

Although Monarch filled the void in summer in respect of BMI Baby they have not in the lean period of winter. Baby operated 2 x ALC and 2 x AGP in winter and Monarch have kept the same frequencies, well actually ALC is reduced in November as it was six weekly.

They have also reduced TFS by two rotations in November, Arrecife, Las Palmas, Faro and Larnaca have also lost a frequency in November.

Whereas ryanair have been outspoken about the fee hike in the Canaries and mainland Spain, Monarch have just cut frequencies quietly.

Very disappointing that LPA is only one and ACE two a week and not even a daily Tenerife. At least there is a greater mix of destinations although it will be interesting to see how some of the routes perform.

TartinTon

Is the split 3 x 321 and 1 x 320? surely not 2 & 2 or 4 321's?

Pete

[TartinTon]

OP....planned to be 3 x 321 and 1 x 320

[OltonPete]

Cheers TartinTon, pretty much as expected and fingers crossed for a decent winter although I would have liked them to have picked up Malta on the A320, as Ryanair seem to be wavering.

There is a long long history for this route in one way or another and the year-round FR passengers figures suggests that there is a market. Maybe not enough ancilliary income for Ryanair's liking.



Pete

[FlyboyUK]

OP hows the FR schedule looking for the winter so far? Do you have enough info to do a list like you've done above for Monarch?

[cloudy1]

Thank you Olton Pete for the detailed info and for the time it has taken you to put together. Thanks.

[OltonPete]

FlyboyUK

BHX based aircraft are shown below requiring three units. The Dublin in the morning is operated daily by a Dublin based aircraft. Arrecife on a Monday and Friday is operated from the Arrecife base and the weekly Las Palmas on a Sunday is operated from the LPA base.

There are gaps, some I would imagine were in case FUE/TFS/LPA/ACE were to be increased (fees dispute) and there was a rumour of Vilnius in place of Kaunas, which operated last winter. The big omission thus far is Malta although Gdansk has also operated year-round as well and is not bookable as yet.

Monday

1) FAO DUB LDY
2) ??? BCN
3) ??? DUB

Tuesday

1) BTS DUB RZE
2) AGP KTW DUB
3) BGY BZG

Wednesday

1) ALC DUB LDY
2) BUD BCN
3) KRK ???DUB

Thursday

1) TFS BZG
2) BGY PMI DUB
3) AGP DUB RZE

Friday

1) ALC DUB BCN
2) FAO LDY DUB
3) FUE

Saturday

1) BTS BGY BZG
2) AGP KTW DUB
3) BUD DUB ???

Sunday

1) ALC PMI DUB
2) KRK LDY RZE
3) TFS BCN

Pete

[FlyboyUK]

Thanks OP:ok:

[Flying Wild]

If BHX truly has aspirations of growing and expanding their capacity, they need to have a look at how they deal with a number of flights arriving at the same time (not an uncommon occurrence I would think). Came back this lunch time to queues for immigration snaking down the corridor above arrivals, with the arrivals hall stuffed to the gills. Looked out the window to see pax off a flight queuing on the tarmac as they couldn't even get upstairs! There were half a dozen police downstairs keeping the peace which is rather telling...
Got into baggage reclaim to see every belt going, full of baggage which wasn't getting picked up as everyone was trapped in immigration! On my belt there were four flights worth of bags, so many in fact that they ended up blocking the belt in a massive heap!

Not a glowing endorsement for expansion...

[OltonPete]

I also arrived back on a Sunday lunch-time at around 13.15 and we were arrival number 10 or 11 of 20 plus in just over one hour including Emirates.

It was an amazing sight to see and although far from perfect the airport on this occasion coped well.

They did block off the escalators and held pax in the pier but all immigration stations were manned and the e-gates were all operational.

I had about 10-15 minute wait in the queue (two children in tow) but on the upside despite arriving at the carosel to see it shared with three other Monarch flights the bags arrived within 5 minutes.

From touchdown (13.07 I think) to meeting our pick-up it was about 35-40 minutes, which I thought was fantastic considering.

If you look at the BHX movements over a week the Sunday lunch period is just one of those freak periods when most of the based aircraft get back (plus EK, KL, LX, AF) at around the same time.

As I walked out of arrivals having already viewed the 50 and 60 stands and now seeing the 40's and old T2 packed with aircraft, I felt amazed that my old little airport which barely had a couple flights an hour in high summer in the past had reached these levels.

There will always be a down-side and if you think arrivals are bad how will the new security area cope with any further in flux of early departures.

PK insists BHX can double capacity with what it has now and I assume that there is a plan, as I doubt the current terminal could cope with the current peaks and troughs. Evened out of 12 months then there would be little problem but that is unlikely ever to happen at BHX.

Pete

[BobBHX]

OP - you were lucky that the e-gates were working. I come back into BHX most Sundays, but usually later in the afternoon. The e-gates are only switched on about 20% of the time. In fact, they usually wait for a queue to build up in the holding area before they switch the gates on. There seems to be a willful disregard by the UKBA staff at BHX for any new technology which would help the travelling public. They seem to go out of their way not to use the e-gates and IRIS before that.

[GayFriendly]

E Gates were working tonight! Like any airport there are good days and bad days. I have been off a flight at T5 and on the tube in less than 30mins at LHR yet have landed and been waiting for bags at INV for more than half an hour, two very different airports just my experiences on the day! I think on the whole BHX does well with its sizeable peaks and troughs and there are always staff there directing the flow of pax. I agree with others that it is Border Control that calls the shots in Immigration which will affect how things run on the day. My recent experiences of BHX have been very good. Tonight is very typical: we landed from TXL at 18.32, parked up on Gate 57 and I made the 19.14 train from Intl to Leamington, including picking up a bag from the carousel on the way.....

Changing tack, I am just back from my third return trip BHX-TXL with LH in two months, the good news: all flights at a rough guess have been about 80% full (tonight 100%!!), the not so good news, I have yet to see anyone travelling Business Class, indeed on Sundays it is not even offered, the A319 is all economy seating. I just hope yield holds up on this route as for me personally it is a god send not having to trek up to EMA or LHR.

[crewmeal]

GF

Berlin has always been low on Business Class figures. When I used to fly for Maersk many moons ago the curtain divider on a 737 was usually around row 3. That route has always done well for for economy passengers.

[ATNotts]

Berlin has always been low on Business Class figures

Largely because the decision to move the German capital city was essentially political. The business powerbase lies withing the western states of NRW, Hessen, Baden Wurtemburg and Bavaria.

It'll take a long time to convince German business HQs to head east - a bit like getting UK executives to realise there's intelligent life north of the M25!!

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "It'll take a long time to convince German business HQs to head east - a bit like getting UK executives to realise there's intelligent life north of the M25!!"

It will never happen it's extra unnecessary expenditure! Nor will UK businesses be persuaded to cluster around a Thames estuary airport (if it is ever built) in the same way as they do around Heathrow.

As for "north of the M25", it's regretable: some deconcentration and decentralisation would be beneficial to the UK!

[Groundbased]

Morning all,

What is happening with the BMI baby aircraft? At BHX this morning there were 4 or so 73x on the tarmac. Are they in use at all?

[OltonPete]

Groundbased

They all fly everyday until the last day of operations I believe.

Sometimes one or two aircraft only operate two sectors and this is the reason that they are often seen sitting around.

I think they are all usually airborne or down-route by 10.30-11am UK time most days.

Pete

[grundyhead]

Back to aviation matters good to see Birmingham getting more services

Thanks for that C3B, previous discussion item needs a thread all of it's own :ok:

[FQTLSteve]

Does anyone know how much longer bmi will operate for LH? At BHX yesterday lunchtime, very busy, saw bmi A320 in Star c/s op for LH. I'm flying from FRA to BHX 16th Sep booking says op by bmi....will this still be so?

[redED]

Whose is the 727 (?) parked on the far side of the field?

[Ringwayman]

Believe bmi will be doing LH routes until the end of the summer timetable.

[NJTCF]

M-FAHD is the B727 on the western apron. I gather the captain lives nearby.:ok:
Think it is owned by someone in the middle east.

[TSR2]

Prime Air Corporation, Rosseau Valley, Commonwealth of Dominica is the registered owner of M-FAHD.

[OltonPete]

BHX-DUB has been cut in winter to twice daily on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. The afternoon BHX based FR666/7 is the flight removed. The rest of schedule is unchanged at the moment which means a net loss of three flights per week but you never know with FR.

Virtually every other UK destination with three or more daily flights (Manchester, Luton, Bristol, Edinburgh, Liverpool) seem to have lost one frequency per week although some of these might have been known for some time. East Mids is once daily on Wednesday.

flybe

Stuttgart for winter is now showing as the Q400 leaving the 175's as they are now operating DUS & GLA although the GLA aircraft goes to Milan with the 175 operating EDI in the afternoon.

Pete

[PPRuNe Pop]

Please stick to the topic of BHX. Politics is not a subject for discussion on PPRuNe.

PPP

[Keyvon]

Ryanair's Gdansk route to be shelved by Nov. 6th. It appears it could make a return for the next summer though.

[OltonPete]

Gdansk

All part of the Polish merry-go-round where virtually all BHX routes have stopped at some point in the past but all have restarted except for SZZ and all with incredibly high load factors (except SZZ) but I think it is generally accepted most are low-yielding services.

BHX-GDN rests and MAN-GDN starts - co-incidence, I doubt (agreed passenger through-put at GDN possibly?)

I am more concerned what they are doing with Malta, which for the second winter running is not on sale a few months before the season starts.

The schedule is starting to look bare with just Dublin cut, two Tenerife's a week and a single LPA & FUE although no doubt FR will blame AENA or the local government for this.

Pete

[nigel osborne]

I think we need to remember its not just BHX which has seen long haul airlines go.

Manchester had 3 BA 747 routes, British Airtours 747s daily. Cathay Pacific, Qantas, South African, Gulf Air, Air India, Air Canada, Nation Air, Quebec Air, Aeroflot, Sure their are a lot more.

One of the things that have changed is airline alliances.Long Haul carriers now far happier to feed passengers using their partners short haul network to connect to their main hubs around Europe.

Wardair were pushed out of BHX by Air Canada, and by expanding too fast.

The price of oil certainly won't encourage a mass return of these airlines.

However their are airlines likely to come to BHX in the next few years .A Chinese airline, Air Blue probably, American to Chicago,to name a few.

We already know Qatar will be coming soon probably with 787s.. thats a massive addition for BHX..no doubt the usual gloomers will find something to moan about their too :hmm:

Nigel


Nigel

[ATNotts]

Nigel:

You are so right!

Whilst you can also draw up a similarly long list of "lost" carriers as you have made for Manchester, most of the BHX list consists of iffy carriers from the former Soviet states, such as Kyrgystan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan - there must be some others but I can't remember them!

Manchester has a history of attracting major carriers, but being unable to retain them once the sweeteners had run out. I think it's slightly unfair to include quasi charter carriers such as Quebecair and Nationair, but most of the rest you've listed are absolutely fair game. You could equally have added bmi long haul, El Al, Biman, though they have returned I think.

At BHX, although the list of long haul carriers is considerably more meagre, what it has had, aside Air Canada, American and Air India have had staying power, and as you you say, AA must be a prime candidate to return.

Honestly, for BHX the glass is nearer half full than half empty!

[Skipness One Echo]

AA must be a prime candidate to return.
American has virtually withdrawn from Europe, there's not a whole lot left. Brussels gets dropped at the end of the season as well.Sadly, and this ties in exactly with Nigel's excellent point about alliances, American serve Europe via BA at LHR.

[chinapattern]

I don't see AA ever resuming ORD-BHX and if you look to UA any service they might start would surely effect their loads to EWR. A seasonal BHX-SFO might work with the 787 once the runway extension is complete but I think that's more wishful thinking more than anything. Realistically, the only east coast service I could see is a seasonal BHX-YVR with TS.

[nigel osborne]

Chinapattern,

Yes agree TS to Vancouver and possibly Calgary might be possible, and my money would be on SFO and Orlando with Virgin as our US traffic is leisure related.

Know BHX are still hopeful for a Chicago AA return on a 757 but its really not the right plane.

Nigel

[Suzeman]

Manchester had 3 BA 747 routes, British Airtours 747s daily. Cathay Pacific, Qantas, South African, Gulf Air, Air India, Air Canada, Nation Air, Quebec Air, Aeroflot,

This quite rightly shows how the business is changing over time.

At one stage BA did have a policy of long haul from the regions. They were planning to open a proper hub operation at LGW and then after that a mini-hub at MAN.They decided to change tack and concentrate Long Haul on LHR and to leave a few leisure routes at LGW.

As has been noted, alliances were set up and CX and QF were persuaded to operate their UK flights to LHR with BA feed as part of One World. What is annoying is that whilst BA are entitled to their strategy, they did their damnedest to stop foreign carriers from operating from UK regional airports through the bilateral process. It delayed foreign carriers from starting routes for a while but eventually lobbying by the bigger airports (MAN, BHX) was mostly successful.

SAA stopped operating from MAN when apartheid was swept away and they suddenly had for more lucrative opportunities around the world rather than the very limited routes they were previously allowed on.

Gulf Air were hampered with the bilateral which only allowed them to serve Oman from MAN, not their main hub at Bahrain, so no surprise that didn't last long.

Aeroflot on the other hand operated to MAN for a while to preserve their bilateral rights, so they could be used as a bargaining tool in negotiations. There is a story incidentally that they may be back at MAN for S2013.

Other things that have changed since those days as well as the strengthening of alliances are the rise of the low cost carrier, the decline of the package tour, the end of Bermuda 2 agreement (UK/US bilateral which was particularly restrictive on access to LHR) and of course the economic situation where airlines are much more likely to align their operations based on viability rather than presteige.

With the ongoing debate about capacity in the SE (which I'm sure will carry on for ever as it has been doing for years and b*gger all will get built) airlines will have to re-assess whether they serve any increased UK regional long haul demand by starting direct operations or whether they are best served by linking the UK regions to their flights from a European hub.

The Gulf carriers have already stitched up the market going east. As their hub airports are still expanding (DXB has a new 28 A380 gate terminal to open in a few months time, Doha and Abu Dhabi will be opening new terminals soon) and they have no bilateral issues on capacity, they will be able to up frequency at UK regional airports to take this traffic, so I'm sure BHX will see increases (QTR are rumoured - or is it confirmed?).

Going west, I think it is now a period of consolidation for MAN and BHX and I think both airports will be grateful if they can hang on to what they've got for the next couple of years.

Suzeman

[MARK 101]

One thing I dont understand re BHX is the lack of long haul it flights. I accept that for the likes of AA,DL etc the yield is a problem, yet surely for bucket and spade routes to the US and Carribbean this isnt an issue. So why is BHX not getting far more Florida flights for example, it seems ridiculous that there are so few, when even smaller UK airports (CWL,NCL etc) can attract at least as many and often more.

Mark

[Monty Gordo]

'Birmingham Airport argues that a planned runway extension will allow it to serve 27 million passengers a year, up from nine million at the moment, and to provide long-distance flights to locations such as India and China. High speed rail will also make Birmingham as convenient as Heathrow, the airport says'.


and then.....

'I don't see AA ever resuming ORD-BHX and if you look to UA any service they might start would surely effect their loads to EWR. A seasonal BHX-SFO might work with the 787 once the runway extension is complete but I think that's more wishful thinking more than anything. Realistically, the only east coast service I could see is a seasonal BHX-YVR with TS'.

There is a dichotomy here that seems to be growing ever apart on the future prospects of Bhx. It would appear to me that on the one hand you have political 'aspiration' which is not unusual when politicians are ever keen to be seen to express popularist opinion and, those that have a hand within the industry, clearly express a hard but heart-felt judgement.

No doubt the extended runway is going to have an impact but I am beginning to think that it is going to be far less than the airport management team hope for and envisage.

It is going to be very interesting how these 'polarist' expections pan out.

[ATNotts]

Monty Gordo:

I doubt whether any of the more recent runway extensions (Cardiff, East Midlands - or the 2nd runway at Manchester) have either yet provided a financial return for their airport operators, or attracted anything like the new business that the airport operators were hoping for. sadly I believe that BHX will join that rather disappointing list.

For as long as the UK continues to be so London-centric I see no possibility that any significant long haul business will find it's way to BHX. The "national" airline has zero interest in serving the nation, being satisfied feeding it's long haul network from airports, which in fairness, are more in need of an air connection to London than BHX. The business market is such that we're just not going to see multi daily services from BHX to cities like New York or Chicago - the front end traffic just wouldn't support them, and business passengers demand the flexibility of a 2 or 3 x daily service - it's unfortunately a chicken and egg situation.

Long haul is largely going to be IT traffic, that may well grow with the operational possibilities that the extension provides; this along with further long haul services possibly to the Indian subcontinent, serving the the ex-pat community from that region, and just possibly, a Chinese carrier.

Cargo probably isn't a starter, an airport 40 miles northeast of BHX is much better set up to serve that market.

Taking off Paul Kehoe's rose tinted specs for a moment, just how many additional passengers might be attributed to the 3000m runway? My guess is between 250,000 - 500,000 per annum. If my lower estimate is achieved then I think the airport should be well satisfied, but probably still out of pocket.

[Monty Gordo]

Without being either unfair or unkind to you ATNotts, you are just trolling out hyperbole.

The point I was making is that there is a clear dichotomy here without either side having any clear and precise knowledge as to what is going to occur - and this on the basis of a multi-million investment in infrastructure at Bhx.

One final point and, perhaps I am a pedant here. What is London-centric? I would prefer to use the John Betjeman assessment of the same problem - metropolitan. London finished at the end of the Metropolitan Line!!

[GayFriendly]

Rumour has it on the EZY thread that on the back of the extra based aircraft one of the new routes from EDI will be BHX......interesting that their press statement about the new based a/c focuses on the strong inbound tourism market at EDI, something that has perhaps put them off a BHX base?

As for the runway extension, I agree with Monty, lofty political ambition and a desire to hit headlines has come over commercial realities. I am not even sure that there will be a significant increase in long haul charter flying once the extension is open with TCX and MON currently reducing their long haul ops it could be down to TOM who can't seem to decide if they prefer doing long haul from BHX or EMA

We already know Qatar will be coming soon probably with 787s


Do we? There has been no official announcement has there, just comments made by the airline (which have been made before)?

[Daza]

It amazes me how some on here manage to turn every news item about Birmingham Airport into negative commentary. :ugh:

[ATNotts]

Monty Gordo

What is London-centric

Do I detect some pedanticism here? London-centric means that everything revolves around London, which it has done for many years, and always will do. Why I don't know, but there's no point in trying to change that situation as it won't happen!

The point I made was that more often runway extensions don't pay for themselves.

Furthermore, that, in my opinion, the gain in passenger number directly attributable to the BHX runway extension may be as few as 250,000 per year. Perhaps others hold a different view. what are your thought on the likely benefit in terms of PAX numbers?

Where "trolling out hyperbole" comes into that I don't know, and whilst on the subject of definitions, perhaps you could explain the meaning of the word "trolling" in this context.

[Daza]

Im afraid the musings of individuals on here about the benefits or otherwise of the runway extension are irrelevant. The Airport company shareholders and other interested parties have deemed it worthwhile to go ahead and the construction of the runway extension is underway. As I have said before on here the West Midlands and its people have just as much right to secure infrastructure investment as people in London or any of the of the other English regions.
As for PK at least he has succeeded in raising the profile of Birmingham Airport and BHX is included in the whole debate on wider UK Airport capacity. More recently the BHX marketing team have managed to attract new services from both legacy and low fares airlines in quite difficult economic times. The glass is half full! :ok:
Daza

[Monty Gordo]

ATNotts

I don't want to be drawn into semantics because I don't think this thread is the place for it. However, as you asked, I will answer your points.

Firstly, I do not think the runway extension will have a significant impact on pax numbers at Bhx. The airport management was drawn into a PR battle where the fact that the runway at Bhx was seen as a bar to its long-term development and standing, always kept it out of the 'premier league' of UK airports. If the extension had been established 20 years ago, well, the story might have been different.

You say 'centric' I say 'metropolitan'. That is purely my choice; to use a word well established in the English language and which clearly refers 'to the chief city of a state or country'. Centric?, look it up...

As for trolling, the word is now being abused. Its origins stem from fishing where lines are drawn in, thus drawing in rhetorical exaggeration.

I hope that helps

[crewmeal]

If the extension had been established 20 years ago, well, the story might have been different.

Never has a truer sentence been written! I remember the days when BHX had quite an assortment of diversions and it would have been cost effective to bus passengers for a long haul flight and operate to another destination. But because the runway was too short this proved impossible.

Now it may be the case of 'shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted'. I hope I'm wrong, but with yet another u turn on the cards and a 3rd runway being talked about again, then I don't see any long haul schedules on the cards.

The best day ever for long haul at BHX was the G8 summit back in 1998 when many long haul aircraft came in and operated out. But they were private flights and didn't have weight restrictions.

[justplanecrazy84]

Birmingham and Chicago O'Hare Become Sister Airports to Strengthen Links - Birmingham Airport (http://www.birminghamairport.co.uk/meta/news/2012/08/birmingham-and-chicago-ohare-become-sister-airports-to-strengthen-links.aspx)

[chinapattern]

Just came across this on Twitter;

Birmingham and Chicago O'Hare Become Sister Airports to Strengthen Links - Birmingham Airport (http://www.birminghamairport.co.uk/meta/news/2012/08/birmingham-and-chicago-ohare-become-sister-airports-to-strengthen-links.aspx)

Apologies, someone beat me to it!

Long Haul

Regarding the debate of long haul flights and the runway extension I'd ask this; if BHX has long haul potential then shouldn't we be seeing a few more flights to destinations that currently are within reach now? We don't have direct scheduled services to IAD, JFK, BOS, ORD, PHL, MCO, YYZ, DEL, BOM, LHE, DOH and AUH all of which (I believe) are within reach and all are either large hubs or tourist destinations with strong O&D.

I'd also like to point out that nothing would please me more than seeing a few more long hauls operators out of BHX; but historically the airport has struggled to maintain the few long hauls it has had. And while the marketing team have done extremely well to attract the number of new routes we've seen added in the past twelve months or so there is still a large number of gaping holes in the European network; MAD being the obvious example but also a huge tourist destination such as PSA goes unserved from BHX, yet you can fly there from virtually every other major UK airport.

And if you look at MAN the only two destinations currently served by BHX and not MAN is ASB and EVN; both niche destinations serving Birmingham's Indian population. MAN has quite a strong long haul network and it doesn't have to compete with LHR, BHX on the other competes with both. If a long-haul route (or short haul really) can't work out of MAN then I don't see how it can out of BHX, save for a few niche routes like the ones mentioned. BHX's closeness to LHR has always been it's weakness, yet in an ideal world it could also be its saving grace but I do think HR2 will just result in even more passengers going to London.

I'd also like to point out that AA have reduced MAN-ORD to five weekly which is hardly positive for BHX-ORD aspirations.

[GayFriendly]

It amazes me how some on here manage to turn every news item about Birmingham Airport into negative commentary

It's not negative commentary Daza, it's called realism. BHX has first rate facilities and does a decent job in servicing local market air travel needs with a range of European destinations and as a number have pointed out some long haul niche market destinations too. In this respect PK and his team have done an excellent job and the number of new destinations this year and a much increased in size ZB base is testament to their efforts.

As for the runway extension I have NEVER been against it and don't they say you have to speculate to accumulate which is what BHX and its shareholders are doing. However I just do not see that it will turn BHX into the scheduled wide bodied spotters dream or major long haul LHR replacement hub that some seem to think it will. As pointed out by chinapattern there are a large number of what can be realistically considered viable long haul destinations that could already be served from BHX but aren't. I do not see that PVG, SFO, LAX will be flown direct from BHX after the extension is built when JFK, AUH and so on are not already. As for HS2 which seesm to be an integral part in getting more long haul at BHX, well that will be years before its finished, there will probably be a third runway at LHR before that!

I would not call the mentioning the rumour of EDI-BHX by EZY negative. EDI does have a much stronger inbound tourist base than BHX, fact, however could this be (if true) a further testing of waters towards an EZY base at BHX?

As for QR, until officially announced this remains a rumour, again this is fact not negativity

[Daza]

Gayfriendly wrote It's not negative commentary Daza, it's called realism

Really? Is it? You presumed I was talking about you!!?? ;)

Daza

[nigel osborne]

Mark,

The problem for starters at present are their are no spare planes for long haul charters. TCX and Monarch are drastically reducing their long haul flights next year.TOM split their midland long haul between BHX-EMA.

That just leaves Virgin Atlantic..all their long haul planes are fully occupied out of LHR,MAN,LGW and a few out of GLA.

So Virgin would have to drop some of these to come to BHX.

In the medium term I can see Virgin putting 787s into BHX to places like Orlando ans Las Vegas but not till the runways extended 2014.

Nigel

[nigel osborne]

AANOTTS,

Andrew I think you give a very true reflection on the runway extension and its possibilities.

I can see regular ad hoc cargo flights to China for JLR, and perhaps some to India re Tata,and expect Fed Ex to grow, but BHX as you say will never rival EMA.

I believe more than one airline have expressed interest in long hauls into BHX connection with tourist trips to Warwick and Stratford.Seem many thousands fly into London heading that way...Yet these would be peak season charters if they ever happen.

I agree that its going to be very hard to re cooperate the cost of the extension in the short medium term.

However I still agree with it being built.At least its there forever and gives BHX scope.

Nigel

[jabird]

You say 'centric' I say 'metropolitan'. That is purely my choice; to use a word well established in the English language and which clearly refers 'to the chief city of a state or country'. Centric?, look it up...

Actually, "metropolitan" may refer to any large urban core and its surrounding area, including the West Midlands. Likewise, centric or mono-centric may refer to a city area with one major central core (e.g. Birmingham), as opposed to a city which is more suburban (polycentric) in nature, such as Atlanta.

I personally find the term "London-centric" to be rather tedious, as it often makes out that London is somehow at some kind of unfair advantage, manufactured by the politicians and media who keep promoting it above all else.

The simple reality is that, taken as a whole, the UK is indeed "monocentric", and that this core urban area is London, which is larger than the next four cities combined. Germany on the other hand is "polycentric", as is the USA, whereas countries like Spain or Italy might be described as "duo-centric".

It is pointless pretending that Birmingham can somehow swim against this trend, so we must make do with what we have got. The reality is that, given the dominance of London, and given that Manchester Airport spreads its "wings" over a much bigger catchment area, BHX is doing well if it can call itself the UK's 2nd airport outside London over EDI / GLA.

I've never been too bothered about glass half full or empty claims, what matters is seeing what we can do to fill it up. The runway extension can only create more opportunities - as already said, whether it generates ROI for the shareholders is up for them to work out.

I concur with the lists of "lower-long" haul destinations which can be reached from BHX as it stands with existing equipment, but I equally think there are still plenty of other European destinations which can be reached too, either for O&D, or for onward connections (FCO AZ, HEL, WAW, ATH etc).

There has been a lot of talk about replacing WW, but the big let down for me has been Flybe. They have the perfect opportunity with their small but efficient Q400 & E-Jet fleet to reach numerous destinations which other airlines cannot or will not.

[OltonPete]

Nothing really to add re the runway debate as most of my comments have been covered but a good debate nonetheless.

However I have to agree with jabird re flybe in general and their cautious approach but I suppose they have all the data they need on existing yields especially on non-domestic routes and they have not been convinced. At least they have covered Amsterdam although this would have been an ideal easyjet route from BHX.

Swiss

Not looking good for winter as GDS has had the lunchtime flight missing for several days and now this has been matched by the airlines own website.

Fingers crossed that is just a change of times or service provider but Helvetic is still shown in the morning and Contactair in the evening for winter.

Pete

[jabird]

At least they have covered Amsterdam although this would have been an ideal easyjet route from BHX.

Hardly! I suppose it keeps the weekenders happy, but it is hardly a new route! Presumably you mean an ideal U2 route from AMS?

Yes, I agree that they should have their analytical tools to hand, as do FR and all the other players, but I just despair at all those European capitals and other major cities which "should" have a link with Brum. Of course, the "should" is only in commas, because the existance of a sizeable population at each end is not enough in itself to make a route viable, but it is a good help.

What about Norwegian, who do, after all, use LGW, not LTN or STN? Would OSL 3x/week work? Maybe CPH would have stronger demand, even against SAS?

[comet 4b623PW]

chinapatten

I'd also like to point out that AA have reduced MAN-ORD to five weekly which is hardly positive for BHX-ORD aspirations.

While this correct it appears to be a routine service reduction and is from 21/01/13 till 12/02/13 and is currently intended to be operated by a Boeing 767-300 which is a capacity increase on last years Boeing 757.

[Monty Gordo]

If I were transport secretary Justine Greening and I had heard George Osborne on the Andrew Marr programme this morning, I would tender my resignation tomorrow morning.

While she clearly had an expansionist programme in mind for aviation, which which would have included regional airports, it appeared quite clear this morning that Osborne favours a 'quick fix' a third runway at Heathrow.

So what of the Government's future strategy on aviation? Will there be one, or will it be consigned to the waste paper basket in favour of developing Heathrow?

With what appears blatant disregard for election manifestos and principles, it makes me wonder whether First Direct will ever get their hands on the West Coast Main Line.

Cynical, maybe, but I don't think so...

[ATNotts]

Monty Gordo

Justine Greening is little more than one of those (now despised by Cameron for holding the country back) NIMBYs. If votes in her constituency weren't at stake she'd be at the front of the queue of proponents of LHR's 3rd runway!

The only way the 3rd runway is going to get built any time soon will be if the planning rules are really radically relaxed, to a point where strategic projects are virtually exempt from public consultation and that is probably politically unacceptable in UK, not just now, but at any time in the immediate future.

Problem with successive governments is that they don't understand aviation, so can't have a strategy! Even the so called experts that the BBC trot out to talk about aviation don't get it. One yesterday suggested building "Boris Island" for flights going east, and leave the westbound flights at LHR. If a "hub" is what they want then the transfer from a Far East inbound to a US outbound is going to be a mighty long walk!!

Thinking about it they could use BHX for the Far East, LHR for the Americas and HS2 to move passengers between the two "terminals". Some not so bright civil servant has probably already thought of that one!!!

[Fairdealfrank]

Agreed, ATNotts.

Isn't there now a national infrastructure fast track planning process now in place? Think it was brought in after it took 10+ years of planning procedures to get Heathrow-5 approved.

Forget about HS2, it is too far into the future and would take pax away from BHX to LHR, not the other way around.

[MARK 101]

Interesting reading in the press re the proposal to build a new " London" aiport to the North of the capital, with sites in Oxfordshire being muted.
Realise this is all part of the politics and probably just an idea, but if say Gaydon or Upper Heyford were ever taken seriously then i assume that would be curtains for BHX in its current format. Certainly think the next 2-3 years could be very interesting.

[BHX5DME]

LITTLE has changed within the Coalition over its long summer (http://www.express.co.uk/ourcomments/view/343464/Bumpy-ride-over-airport#) recess. Both sides are still engaged in an unedifying squabble over key policies and nowhere is the strain proving greater than over airport policy.
The Coalition’s twice-delayed airport capacity consultation is due out this autumn, with Cameron apparently warming to backbench demands to put the ruled-out Heathrow third runway back on the agenda.

A Sunday Express poll reveals voters are just about equally divided over where a new hub airport should be located, though Birmingham Airport narrowly topped the poll.

It’s something perhaps for Cameron to consider when the Tories travel to Britain’s second city for their annual party (http://www.express.co.uk/ourcomments/view/343464/Bumpy-ride-over-airport#) conference next month.

[Suzeman]

Isn't there now a national infrastructure fast track planning process now in place? Think it was brought in after it took 10+ years of planning procedures to get Heathrow-5 approved.

Certainly is

The process | National Infrastructure Planning (http://infrastructure.planningportal.gov.uk/application-process/the-process/)

The only way the 3rd runway is going to get built any time soon will be if the planning rules are really radically relaxed, to a point where strategic projects are virtually exempt from public consultation and that is probably politically unacceptable in UK, not just now, but at any time in the immediate future.

Although the process is much simpler and quicker than what went before, it still doesn't fulfill ATNotts' criteria and I agree with him. Nothing will physically happen for years in the SE.

Plans for regional airports' expansion however will be welcomed with open arms as a way of solving the politicians view of the Heathrow capacity issues. As we all know, this will only assist on the margins with a few extra flights and some long haul coming to BHX (especially with a more capable runway), MAN and maybe some other regional airports.

The opportunity has been missed by several UK governments due to having no proper long term strategy. The advantage is now with AMS, CDG, FRA and MUC in Europe where proper hubbing takes place and will stay there for years.

As for all this nonsense about a new London Airport in Oxfordshire, it seems to be an nutty idea from a construction company just like the Foster's airport at the Isle of Grain - an attempt to generate some publicity and business. Let's not forget Boris Island too. And to do all this of course you have to close LHR and all the investment there....:ugh:

And how many more sites for new London airports have we had over the years? And what became of them?? Even STN's expansion plans were junked so starting on a greenfield site is about 40 years too late.

So BHX shareholders have taken the decision to extend the runway - I agree that once there it will enhance the airport's capability and be another bullet in the marketing armoury. It will probably attract some new flights on the margin and whether it pays it's way is neither here or there now as it is being built.

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "A Sunday Express poll reveals voters are just about equally divided over where a new hub airport should be located, though Birmingham Airport narrowly topped the poll.

It’s something perhaps for Cameron to consider when the Tories travel to Britain’s second city for their annual party (http://www.express.co.uk/ourcomments/view/343464/Bumpy-ride-over-airport#) conference next month"

Governments do not determine the locations of hub airports, especially those that do not own their country's airports.

It is airlines that make these decisions, and these days decisions are made for commercial reasons. Back in the day the government owned and/or regulated the airlines and could decide where their hubs would be, and they did: BOAC and BEA (later BA) at LHR; BUA, Bcal, Laker and Virgin (originally) at LGW.

We all know what happened.

Voters who read the Sunday Express may like BHX to be the new hub, but do airlines and pax?

There is nothing at present to stop airlines operating routes to/from any UK airport other than LHR. At all other UK airports there is more than enough capacity (except at peak times at LGW), good facilities, few take off delays, no stacking before landing, no high airport charges, and no eye-wateringly high slot acquisition payments.

And yet no one chooses to do so, they all flock to LHR.


Quote: "As for all this nonsense about a new London Airport in Oxfordshire, it seems to be an nutty idea from a construction company just like the Foster's airport at the Isle of Grain - an attempt to generate some publicity and business. Let's not forget Boris Island too. And to do all this of course you have to close LHR and all the investment there..."

Exactly, and that is the other problem: the closure of LHR.

Highly profitable to its owners, BAA, there is no way they will close it. Anyone who thinks they might should check out the amount of on-going investment being put in to it!

BTW there's already a "London" airport in Oxfordshire - Kidlington (OXF).

[Suzeman]

There is nothing at present to stop airlines operating routes to/from any UK airport other than LHR.

Still some bilateral issues with some countries to resolve which could stop flights from some airports but a much, much smaller problem that even 10 years ago. And likely to be less of a problem in the future; some stuff in the consultation paper on this.

At all other UK airports there is more than enough capacity (except at peak times at LGW), good facilities, few take off delays, no stacking before landing, no high airport charges, and no eye-wateringly high slot acquisition payments.

And yet no one chooses to do so, they all flock to LHR.

You are quite right; they all flock to LHR despite all the advantages you outline. Why? Because the yield is so, so, good. I can remember Branson appearing before a parliamentary committee many years ago when he was operating both LGW - EWR and LHR - EWR. He said the yield was 20% better at LHR. Whether this sort of level is still attained I don't know but I believe it is exceptionally good compared to most other airports. And as a consequence, other UK airports are compared with LHR and that's why the airlines will always look at LHR first.

Suzeman

[crewmeal]

I believe that whichever govt is in power, or what people may think you cannot force airlines to use an airport that they don't want to operate to. If the market isn't there no one will use it. Even if they have the right terminal facilities, runways, costs etc. Willy Walsh said not so long ago he would never operate into 'Boris Island' because it's not what the public want. He invested wisely in LCY with long range 318's to the States because of the potential market. Why? Because it's on the doorstep. The business is there and it works. Is Open Skies a success from ORY? no, because why travel to ORY when you have more choice at CDG.

Now we have a new situation and talk of 'Reading International' or whatever you want to call it. It will be even further out than LHR. Do customers want it? I doubt it. Do London customers want BHX? I doubt it. All HS2 will do (if it takes off) is take existing customers away from Brum. I for one would be quite happy to board a train to London and be there in 38 mins, then fly BA or RJ to Jordan. It's better than transiting AMS, CDG or FRA.

I think this debate will rumble on for a considerable time yet.

[Doors to Automatic]

Does anyone know if the new runway extension will involve the repositioning of the 33 threshold? In other words will the LDA increase on 33 or just the TORA?

[mathers_wales_uk]

A Welsh MP has called for expansion of Birmingham rather than Heathrow. This may be good news for Birmingham Airport but surely he should concentrate more on his own national airport at Cardiff?

We must expand Birmingham - not Heathrow, Says Welsh MP - News Article (http://walesairforum.wordpress.com/2012/09/02/we-must-expand-birmingham-not-heathrow-says-welsh-mp/)

[jabird]

There is nothing at present to stop airlines operating routes to/from any UK airport other than LHR.

True, but there is something else that the politicians are missing with all their "expand Birmingham / regions" rhetoric.

Firstly, almost all regional airports have benefitted from a massive expansion in routes already due to the rise in low cost airlines, who can make point to point routes work to destinations other than legacy capital city hubs, and who can adjust frequency to suit yield.

Secondly, as it is totally ludicrous to suggest that BHX or even MAN can be anything other than low cost bases or feeder cities to legacy hubs, the only way to develop our own hub network is to support London. Any other routes will suck more money out through funding non-UK airlines, and they will almost certainly help to increase the tourism deficit. The same does not apply at LHR.

[radar707]

Does anyone know if the new runway extension will involve the repositioning of the 33 threshold? In other words will the LDA increase on 33 or just the TORA?

The 33 threshold will be repositioned and the LDA increased for runway 33. The ILS will be taken out of service for a while so the Glide Path can be repositioned

[splash&dash]

As previous poster correctly stated, runway 33 threshold will move to roughly abeam taxiway Charlie increasing LDA.
It is also worth noting that during the final 'link up' of the current runway to the new extension a lot of other works will be happening -
1- 33 Glideslope aerial will be repositioned from east side to west side. This will stop the current restrictions on taxiway 'C' whilst 33 is in use as the beam passes straight through the taxiway.
2- Obviously runway 15 localiser will be moved and possibly upgraded to a new model.
3- Total full length runway resurfacing. Basically the top layer of tarmac will be replaced and concrete ends and lead offs will be tarmaced. Not sure if it will be grooved or not. Also slight profiling on the runway to ease the 'hump'.
4- All runway lights to be replaced with new energy efficient LEDs.

Obviously this is a lot of work to undertake until final completion in spring 2014. The majority of the 'link up' is scheduled for autumn 2013 so pay close attention to your NOTAMs flyers. This would also result in downgrading to possibly CAT1 for a time, during the foggy season not ideal but has to be done.

On top of all this there's the fit out of new ATC tower coming online next year and a new watchman radar being installed near bird island :ok:

Thats a hell of a lot of investment, upgrades and major improvements going on at BHX over the next 2 years which is very pleasing to see. :D

[OltonPete]

AirBlue Pakistan (AirBluePakistan) on Twitter (http://twitter.com/AirBluePakistan)

Scroll down and BHX is to start followed by Luton with Manchester increased.

They are looking at Heathrow by the look of it.

Pete

[splash&dash]

This would be a great addition, however how will it affect PIA?
A non stop flight to India is whats desperately needed.

[hec7or]

@crewmeal

Do London customers want BHX? I doubt it. All HS2 will do (if it takes off) is take existing customers away from Brum. I for one would be quite happy to board a train to London and be there in 38 mins, then fly BA or RJ to Jordan. It's better than transiting AMS, CDG or FRA.


hit the nail on the head there Chris!

btw, a post without mentioning Maersk?!
are you losing your touch?

[nigel osborne]

Splashanddash.

Thanks for the full update on the runway ILS works,as you say excellent to see so much investment.

However I think that they won't do the LED runway lights as the initial cost Im told is huge. LED taxiway lights look likely though.

The CAA are still undecided about LED, and the LED runway lights at Manchester are on UK trial.Not sure how that works..do you rip them all out if they are no good, lol.

I also believe work on widening the tight parts of the taxiway will also not happen..They conform to CAA regs for up to A340-600 wheelbase and the shorter wheelbases of the 744 and 77W. Therefore no reason to fork out more.

For info BHX did look at buying Arrestor beds for the runway ends to improve RESA.However regs state you have to keep a spare one in a hangar to replace one if its deployed and they cost millions .

Nigel

[ZULUBOY]

Airblue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airblue)

[Musket90]

CAA has now approved LED lights on runways. Recently published CAA Information Notice - 2012/126 has the detail.

[Monty Gordo]

While she may have been accused of 'nimbyism', Justine Greening did nonetheless publicly support the present government's election manifesto of no third runway for Heathrow. And what did she get for it?, the boot!

So, the future strategy into aviation into the 'long grass' and a green light for Heathrow??

Never accept promises from politicians, men of straw, every one of them.

[jabird]

So, the future strategy into aviation into the 'long grass' and a green light for Heathrow??

Never accept promises from politicians, men of straw, every one of them.

Except that the "Future of Aviation" was a Labour policy document dating back to 2003. They at least consulted on a wide number of options, including new airports at Rugby or Cliffe, before settling on a 3rd runway at LHR.

The coalition aviation policy has been a dithering mess - and I say so as a Tory!

Greening should never have been given the job in the first place. How can you make fair judgements as a transport minister when you have such a partisan line on Heathrow? There would have been outrage at her appointment if she was on the HS2 line, there should have been similar outrage at her appointment given her alliance with HACAN and other anti-LHR groups.

[nigel osborne]

Jaibird,

Think we can expect a push for a third runway at LHR now with anti airport Greening gone, but not till after the election in 2015..

Would heavily depend on Labour or the Conservatives winning the election though as I think the Lib Dems will still have their heads deep in the sand over this matter.

Then long term a completely new airport with 4 runways, IMO probably inland close to LHR as discussed in the papers last few days, as thats the area that the airlines and connecting passengers want.Also close to where LHR current workforce live..

Like it or not its the only viable solution for a new hub..can they find enough ground to squeeze it in though ?


Would not be good for BHX ,although many years away.

Nigel

[jetstreamtechrecords]

I see Flybe are taking out 4 x Q400s for the winter. 1 each from BHX, EDI and MAN for definite. :bored:

[irishlad06]

There is another 2 going off to the SN wet lease but where did you see that there is 4 dash's being taken out of the fleet, I know one i leaving BHD but they are getting a E195 from SOU in replace.

[OltonPete]

jetstreamtechrecords

If the details are correct in the Aberdeen thread then it seems the BHX Q400 will be the one freed up by the 175 operating ABZ-BHX-ABZ rather than BHX-ABZ-BHX, which in fact will be a net increase in seats if four daily is maintained.

BHX of course gets an extra Q400 due to the Amsterdam starting so all in all winter is up unless there are any more cuts on the way. They could reduce the base by making Hanover once daily in the day but they seen keen to keep the evening Sunday-Friday service, which is probably deemed more business friendly.

Swiss

The evening service now shows OLT express in winter rather than Contactair. What a way to treat a service, Helvetic in the morning, lunchtime cancelled and the evening a new Loco carrier - surely not.

Pete

[Guest 112233]

Are we looking at "Dying Route" syndrome ? Compare the situation with MAN where Swiss seem to maintaining their schedules. you never know perhaps LH will introduce a morning Berlin departure.

Perhaps the success of THY is causing a decline on the ZRH fom BHX.

[jabird]

Perhaps the success of THY is causing a decline on the ZRH fom BHX.

But are the highest yields on that route by far not the ones for people actually wanting to go to ZRH as o/d? Not just business trips, solid tourism year round too to keep the cabin full? Just remember to consult your bank manager first before stepping on any Swiss trains!

[GayFriendly]

jabird, Funny I have just booked BHX-IST in Oct with LX as opposed to TK based admittedly on price, flight not that much longer than the non-stop as very swift connections in ZRH.

It would seem that LX are not putting BHX at the top of their favourite route pile but hopefully this does not mean a pull off the route. Can't see who would realistically take this one over if they do? I though OLT Express had gone belly up in any case?

[jabird]

GF - not sure, would have thought best airline for biz market + onwards conx is, errrrrrrrrrrr - LX!

I really think it is about time we imposed a Nick Clegg tax on his endless stupid ideas.

Birmingham is a mid-table base airport. It could do more to serve its local market, as we discuss ad-infinitum on here (bring on easy?).

Politicians just see the word train + plane and think they create the word "megahub". If only it was that easy!

Birmingham Airport CEO Welcomes Support From Deputy PM - Birmingham Airport (http://www.birminghamairport.co.uk/meta/news/2012/08/birmingham-airport-ceo-welcomes-support-from-deputy-prime-minister.aspx)

This one (and there's another on the BHX site I can't re-find) talks of a second runway by 2014. Some Freudian slip Mr K!

Financial news, business, blogs, finance director jobs - Director of Finance Online (http://www.dofonline.co.uk/content/view/6486/152/)

Surely a runway is a runway, it is going to have opposition wherever it is built. Granted, BHX has less of a noise footprint than LHR, but the grandees of Solihull can't be dismissed as if they just aren't there. And swap a reduced anti-lobby for the double nimby fight against airport and the high speed rail needed to serve it.

[insuindi]

re gayfriendly: after the OLT investor AmberGold has pulled out the Polish OLT has gone bust, the German part found its money elsewhere (Panta Holding, they also own Denim Air which we currently see at BHX for BE) and is about to considerably increase its operations as of the start of the winter schedule, mainly by filling gaps that the continuing withdrawal of AB have left from e.g. FMO (overall, it seems a very adventurous schedule...one can only hope that Panta has a fair bit of spare cash).

The German OLT Express has also taken over the struggling Contact Air (struggling after LH has not extended its contract with them), and Contact Air had 2 F100 contracted to LX, so that's where OLT suddenly comes from on the BHX-ZRH sector.

[tom775257]

Ryanair Malta flights released now, Mon/Fri available until start April :)

[Planeaddict]

There has been news about re-instating flights to Chicago (more recently).

Also, Airblue are taking deliveries of A340's this month. Could they possibly be used on the route to BHX? And Wikipedia says that the route will commence during the fourth quarter of this year.

[justplanecrazy84]

Roughly when QR are rumoured to start bhx (still nothing official on QR).

Will Airblue be competition for EK as well as competition for PIA?

[nigel osborne]

Plane Addict.
_________________

Air Blue released a statement , saying messages they were starting BHX very soon with A340s were not true,and were put on FB by plane enthusiasts and not them.

They say they will make announcement about any new routes and where the A340s are going when contracts are signed with airports concerned.

So they are not denying they have an interest in BHX which is at least something :)

Justplanecrazy84.
__________________

No more news about Qatar..they said they will not release any dates about when BHX starts until they they get a delivery schedule from Boeing on the B787s.

Think they have 60 on offer ,the first one was due for delivery last week but was delayed.

It therefore depends how far up or down BHX is on their priorities as to whether we get a start date with the first batch or have to wait for the later ones.:confused:

Nigel

[GayFriendly]

There's an EI377 listed on BHX arrivals from Bourgas arriving BHX 2359 (via Dublin) then an 0030 departure same flight number to Dublin. Anyone know what this is about, seems a bit confusing?

Re Air Blue and Qatar, they would both be valuable additions to the BHX list of operators but I think we may have to be patient, as always with BHX and routes being rumoured and actually happening things can take a while.....didn't QR first rumour/'announce' BHX back in 2006? This time to be fair I think it will happen, it's a case of how long we have to wait. I would be surprised if Air Blue starts with an A340, haven't people got anything better to do than hack a Twitter account to make up announcements about new wishlist operators and aircraft at BHX?? :rolleyes:

insuindi - thanks for info re OLT, have checked out their website, I see their aircraft fly in red and white so it's I guess its very similar to LX colours!

[nigel osborne]

Tankers and machinery by Watchman Radar.
________________________________________

Noticed today from the golf course path that 8 lorry trailers are now sitting on the gravel infront of the watchman radar tower.Appear to be large fuel tanks and small cement silos..or similar.. two have COLAS on the side,who are doing the runway extension project in the fields.

Anyone know what they are doing their and where they have come from ..perhaps repositioned from the BHX fuel depot ??

Nigel

[Fairdealfrank]

Dear oh dear, you can just feel the desperation oozing out of them!

First it's Cameron doing his Jim Hacker ("Yes Minister") impersonation, now it's Clegg laying bear for all to see his ignorance on all matters aviation. No change there, he does appear to be good at giving the impression of knowing not a lot about anything.

"Heathwick" anyone?

Is BHX running at 99+5 capacity? Of course not, so why a second rwy by 2014?

It looks like the coffee isn't going to be smelt anytime soon as they all remain fast asleep.


No disrespect to BHX but it isn't the new LHR and nor should it be so.

[crewmeal]

They say they will make announcement about any new routes and where the A340s are going when contracts are signed with airports concerned.

Can an A343/6 take off direct to ISB using the present runway length?

[nigel osborne]

Crewmeal.

Well if it was Hong Kong or Singapore BHX runway is too short , but Islamabad is only a tad more than 7 hours .. about the same as New York, so even a 343 should be ok.

Nigel

[Planeaddict]

So the rumours were untrue. But in terms of the A343 being able to make the journey from ISB to BHX, taking into account AI could make it to India with a B772, is the A343 a lot bigger?

Wonder if anyone has picked up on this: http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-stories/2012/09/04/birmingham-airport-set-to-launch-new-flights-to-chicago-97319-31765446/

Would be good for BHX if Airblue would go ahead, over on Skyscraper city there's been mention that it was mentioned on Twitter aswell.

[Burpbot]

Nigel, I presume it's the start of the new hangars?

[justplanecrazy84]

If anyone is heading down to bhx this weekend can they get some pics of the progress please.

[nigel osborne]

Burpot,

No I don't think so theres no planning permission for any more at present.

Nigel

[jabird]

Of course not, so why a second rwy by 2014?

A typo apparently, remove the second, add extension. So no actual increase in capacity, just range.

To suggest that a second runway at any time, for which some form of planning approval would still be needed, would just sail through "like a breeze" is perverse, there would by NIMBYs at both end of it, just like anywhere else. In fact, there'd be a lot more of them than there would be at Gatwick, which is still the only other option really worth debating, apart from Heathrow or do nothing.

[nigel osborne]

Justplanecrazy.

Re runway work, had a look today ,not much to look at.

They have 3 dumper trucks a few diggers a bulldozer and a roller.They are flattening the new route for the A45 diversion .The earth is then being piled into long bunds.

Interestingly they are restoring the old sports playing field social club and reseeding the grass,and put a fence around the slightly reduced grass area.

The never ending archaeological dig continues with large shallow areas being carefully removed by small dumper trucks and the area left sifted by hand.

Looks like a scene from the battle of the somme at the moment.

Nigel

[justplanecrazy84]

Thanks Nigel! :ok:

[OltonPete]

insuindi

Thank you for the update on OLT, Helvetic F100 has just landed without flaps. They seem to have two aircraft that make regular appearances in AV Herald!

tom775257

Cheers for heads-up re Malta, no other changes in the winter schedule that I noticed so still only one FUE & LPA and 2 x TFS.

GF

Correct the colourful CEO of Qatar announced to the world about BHX-DOH back in 2006 and ABTN picked up on it and published an article, which is fair enough as you do expect the CEO to know his new routes. Surely lightening can't strike twice?

EI BOJ I assume same as the Athens last week and is fuel as they were both pre-planned so not medical or anything else like that. Perhaps they knew they were going to be late and couldn't arrange fuel to be available on arrival.

easyjet

Geneva now bookable to 14 April and is daily for the last two weeks which of course will cover Easter. Belfast is bookable until the end of June similar times.

Brussels

Still showing no flybe aircraft for winter, which is odd. The night-stop is a SN RJ100 as with three other flights and a Tyrolean Q400. This is quite a seat increase to now. I have seen some reports of the Q400 fully booked on the first departure in the early part of the week but seems drastic to upgrade as I would imagine 78 seats is enough most days.

Air France

The A319 upgrade from the CRJX on the 19.00 flight is still showing.

SAS

The aircraft types on the Stockholm keep changing so that should provide some interest. I have seen the 736, 73W, 738 and MD81 listed at times. CPH in general is a mix of MD81's and CRJ9's in the morning and CRJ9's in the evening with Airbus listed for the morning next summer. There is no Saturday morning CPH this winter.

Thomas Cook Summer 2013

A big change but alas not to the base downgrade with just two based. However a lot of destinations have reappeared but using Monarch schedule(HER, FUE, LEI ACE etc). The only interesting one is new to 2013 Malta with a based aircraft on a Tuesday as both TCX aircraft are or were busy that day.

Pete

[Scorchio]

OltonPete, TCX will now be operating 3 based aircraft from BHX , for summer '13.

This was 'confirmed' mid-August time,from within the company.


best regards
Scorchio.

[OltonPete]

Scorchio

Very interesting information.

Is this a late change of heart as from day one the schedule has shown a very neat and fully utilised two aircraft operation with several core routes dropped?

I received an promotional email from BHX this week showing a new Thomas Cook destination for 2013 - Malta.

I carried out a dummy booking and it did not show the airline but BHX based times and clearly not the Tuesday evening Air Malta but both Thomas Cook aircraft busy.

Also back in the booking engine came Heraklion (matching the Monarch times), Arrecife (again matching the Monarch times) and FUE (matching the Monarch times).

The odd aspect about the latter is that Thomson offer FUE in summer 2013 on a Wednesday - flying on Thomas Cook but Thomas Cook themselves did not offer it all until this week.

Is the base to remain all 757?

Pete

[MatthewMarshall]

Does anyone know when Monarch are going to get rid of those 737 they seemed to have leased for the summer season??

[Scorchio]

Pete , it was a major concern for TCX staff about the initial a/c plan for 2 based ships.

All I know, is that, during the first 2 weeks of August, confirmation came through that it was going to be a 3 ship operation as before (757s again)

Good news for all.

Sorry I can't be of any help, with the intricacies of routes & destinations served .

Best regards
Scorchio.

[OltonPete]

Scorchio

No probs and thank you for the information, it seems to be good news for all concerned.

Pete

[Alex321]

From what I can see the last day of Wet lease 737's being used for Monarch out of BHX is the 27/10/12.

[MatthewMarshall]

Thanks for that, they seem to be making an upset with some passengers travelling on them.

Does anyone know when Qatar are starting there flights to BHX?

[OltonPete]

MatthewMarshall

The passengers travelling on the Air Explore and Aurela will probably be aggrieved before they even get on board if they haven't read the small-print as some would have booked on Monarch's reputation or previous experiences only to find an aircraft falling short of their expectations.

Then there will be those who have read the reports on the previous incidents and this won't help. It is unfortunate but Monarch deemed it worthy of filling the BMI Baby gap before other airlines got any ideas. This was the best they could do and for 12-16 weeks a risk they thought was worth taking.

I don't believe I saw any press reports on the latest delay which was once again Air Explore on the ill-fated Tuesday BHX-PMI-BHX which ended up nearly a day late last week although this time it was the ZB955 and not ZB959

Qatar - Nigel has covered this in earlier posts and patience will be needed if the Helsinki announcement is anything to go by. That was made late last October and although bookable by code-share via TXL, FRA LHR or MAN there is still no direct flight.

The continued delay with the 787 delivery won't help, as aircraft availability has been a problem in general on the wide-body fleet.

You would hope they would aim for a March 2013 start to get a couple of good months in before the low season starts in May and June and followed quickly by Ramadan, which certainly affects EK loads and I would imagine Qatar will be the same. If they can't start by Spring maybe August would be the better option.

Pete

[crewmeal]

Just a reminder of BHX's heyday when 747's and DC10's were scheduled, here is a copy of WD's timetable.

Route Profile: Wardair Canada Summer 1988 Operation | Airline Route – Worldwide Airline Route Updates (http://airlineroute.net/2012/09/10/rp-wds88/)

Other regional airports also had a good share in transatlantic traffic

[Monty Gordo]

Maybe it is just a matter of interpretation, but I passed by today and thought there was considerable activity on the runway extension site. While I did not stop I got the impression that there was probably in excess of a dozen large construction units at work; JCB's, rollers etc. It certainly looked like the proverbial 'hive of activity'. I hope the contract is on schedule.

It might seem trivial, but it coud be a talking point in the future: When the runway extension is finally complete will the 'piano keys' be directly above what was the existing main road???

[nigel osborne]

Montygordo;

Re runway work.There was 2 bulldozers 4 diggers and 5 dumper trucks and a roller working today.This afternoon a huge earth scraper was delivered and sounded like a Tiger tank as it moved onto the fields!

They are raising the ground slightly near the sports ground..however further towards where the runway end will be, they appear to be digging the new road down about 20 feet.

Think it will be lowered into a culvert here so that they can add a bridge in the future .

If Im right there will be no view of the runway from the new A45 close to its end.

They also seem to be adding noise bunds between the new road and where the runway will be. There is still time for them to redistribute this earth, but the plans seem to show a raised area.If that is all true then there will be no view of the runway extension at all from the diverted A45 :{

On the current A45 end of runway they were winding up underground cables and cutting them up onto a lorry.Also more trees being felled by the Clock.

Winding the work up now for sure.May 2014 for full completion and in service still on course :ok:

Nigel

[CVTDog]

The 737-400 we came in on last night was in very poor nick (decor wise) the cabin crew were very grumpy and as I had paid for Monarch standards just a little disappointing. Drinks service didn't start until one hour into the flight which was not the usual for Monarch

The plane was totally full and load / unload was not up to the usual standard as there just wasn't the handluggage space that there seems to be on a A321 lots of people had to have hand luggage transferred to the hold.

Not sure if there was really bad weather difficulties for the landing - which was of course safe- but was a real lengthy affair with lots of attitude and altitude adjustments on finals and one of the firmest "thumps" l can remember for years !

[OltonPete]

As rumoured the BHX-ABZ has changed to an Aberdeen based E175 four daily in the week with the Q400 operating at the weekend.

No other noticeable changes but the Q400's are not exactly worked hard with at times one could operate just two sectors.

Thomas Cook

Scorchio does the easyjet link-up have any impact on the BHX base such as more co-operation with Monarch? I know what you were told but it is approaching mid September and the summer 2013 schedule is still only showing two based.

I hope nothing has changed but if you were told mid August and four weeks later nothing has changed in the schedule other than Malta added is it a time to be concerned or just patient?

As for the schedulers, someone needs to get their act together, you have Thomas Cook selling Fuerteventura on a Saturday at the same time as the Monarch schedule flight and Thomson are selling it on a Wednesday on a Thomas Cook aircraft, which appears not to be in their schedule.


Pete

[vile8er]

Having never flown with Monarch, this year I have finally got the opportunity to do so when booking my holiday I specifically chose them for our flight to Palma on 18th September. To my dismay I now know that we will be flying the infamous Air Explore 737. Thanks CVTDog for your thoughts :ugh:

[JSCL]

Flying with Monarch this Friday, made the booking on the strength of how I remember Monarch 10 years ago. Probably a mistake to do that :) A300, PE with brekky, hopefully won't be left with a sour taste. Transferred the flight booked from Brummy back up to MAN despite the extra cost, don't fancy "some random eastern european carrier".

[insuindi]

BHX-HAJ retimed and reduced to 7/7 for the winter, potentially that could free a Dash.

[OltonPete]

insuindi

Correct, that does free a Q400 making two out (ABZ/HAJ) and one in AMS.

The Hanover changes to 10.50 departure 15.25 arrival Monday - Friday and the only evening service is Sunday. It is a gamble though as the load factor with it operating in evening has been good even in the winter.

This is a rough idea of the revised and could be final based weekday schedule.

195 - 0700BHD1005 1500GLA1805 1845BHD2140

195 - 0700EDI1020 1445EDI1755 1835EDI2150

195 - 0630CDG1015 1210CDG1555 1715CDG2115

175 - 0700DUS1050 1355DUS1720 1750DUS2120

175 - 0650GLA1000 1305MXP1810 1840GLA2135

Q400 - 0650STR1145 1420AMS1735* 1800IOM2015

Q400 - 0705AMS1025 1050HAJ1525 1700 STR2200 (prime for a 175)

Q400 - 071510M0930 1010WAT1310* 1425BHD1710 1735AMS2050

Q400 - N/S DUS 0750 0815JER1150 1520JER1850 1925DUS N/S

*The afternoon Amsterdam is Mon, Thu, Fri & Waterford Mo, Wed, Fri.

Away based

BHD 4 x 195
EDI 4 x 195
GLA 4 x 195 (175 sometimes at Lunchtime?)
ABZ 4 x 175 (actually 3 x 175 and 1 x Q400 (midday)
INV 1 X Q400
DND 2 X SF34

Between 43 and 46 flights a day in the week and less at weekends.

I would have thought the AMS-HAJ-STR schedule would be BHX's next 175 but it appears IOM and even East Mids could come before.

Pete

[hoody]

I flew back on Monday into BHX from FCO on Air Explore.

Naturally surprised that it wasn't a Monarch flight.

The aircraft is in a tired condition. I found the aircrew polite and efficient and kudos to Monarch to having a senior steward who was available to answer any questions.

Also sat next to Air Italy crew who are being transferred to Monarch duties.

All in all, had better but also had worse.

[Planeaddict]

Any more news on the service to ORD and Qatar starting?

Also, any progress with the runway?

[nigel osborne]

Planeaddict.

I and others have answered these questions re Qatar and the runway on this page ! :ugh:

Nigel

[Falcon666]

Impressive passenger figures for August
1029512 up 8.9%