BIRMINGHAM - 5

[Guest 112233]

I read the article and Birmingham came in 19th just ahead of "Space".

A roaring endorsement.

CAT III

[GayFriendly]

Just seen that EK have finally confirmed second daily GLA from 1/6/2012 using A340-300 which I guess puts the lid on an EDI service by QR or EY? How are the loads doing BHX-DXB I know they took a slight hit when MAN got its third daily EK. Any news on TK going daily, a TK rep told me last year that it would but haven't seen anything officially announced, getting a bit late for summer?

[OltonPete]

GF

The figures were steadily increasing but then went south (I suppose in geographical terms went north ;)), as soon as the Manchester's Middle Eastern expansion took place.

December was certainly not a good month in the terms of the number of seat downgrades to the three-class 777's. I think it was the most since August and equal to June, which is/was low season. The last month without a seat downgrade was April 2011.

However 2012 has started well with all flights thus far 428 or 442 seat aircraft per libhomeradar.

Last month 16 out of 62 flights were three class 777's including one 772!!!

Per another forum BHX is now just behind Moscow to get a third EK daily but with a string of new routes and upgrades from one to two daily first but we will have to wait and see to see if that pans out.

Glasgow's upgrade is happening in the same month as BHX's second flight started, which is bang in the middle of the low season and in 2012 Ramadan starts in July (third week), which always affects loads. Anything from September 2012 would be a good for BHX ;)

As for TK, there are plenty of rumours of BHX daily and Manchester ten weekly but not in any system I have access to at the moment.

Pete

[nigel osborne]

Gay Friendly,

Nothing officially released about TK going daily, but it is on the cards still I believe for late summer.

Certainly more 2 class 77Ws on the EK so probably better loads.

Things are settling down at MAN, SQ cutting 1 flt a week and rumours that QR may go from twice daily to 10 a week, with twice daily staying only on Sun Wed Fri,

That should help BHX a bit if true.

Nigel

[jabird]

not a good month in the terms of the number of seat downgrades

Pete, could you confirm what you mean by this? Do you just mean smaller a/c used, or are passengers who have bought premium tix actually downgraded to a smaller seat (presumably with difference refunded)?

[jabird]

SQ to Manchester is rumoured to be separeated from MUC for winter

That would be very welcome, the whole point of flying from a regional airport (whether BHX or MAN) is to avoid the hassle of going through London - the MUC stop takes away much of that.

[legalize]

Walked in to work today and heard the news that Swissport have lost the BE contract. As BE made up for 70% of their work is it now financially viable for them to continue? The small profit made from remaining airlines would barely pay to keep the lights on!

Menzies have now won the contract. About time a 3rd handling agent came in. Don't really know much about them though. Are they bigger than Swissport overall?

[Burpbot]

Menzies are ok, swissport bigger on global scale but really been pulling out throughout europe. Used to be big in Germany but about a year ago sold up. I suspect they will sell bhx ops to menzies. Just hope all the employees are looked after on what becomes a regular jobs roundabout for the guys that work for the handlers.

[GayFriendly]

Anything from September 2012 would be a good for BHX http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gif




OP

Yes I think that is the very earliest we can expect for a third daily given the fact that low season and Ramadan are merging into one long-ish block and all the other route developments you mention. In an ideal world it would be so very nice to see another Mid East carrier at BHX but can't see this in the short term, I think mainly because this would dangerously dilute what yield there is from BHX. Only EK BHX and NCL will be two class services from June in the UK, this is a worry as it shows the fragility of the high yield front end of aircraft market in the Midlands. Another Mid East carrier at the moment IMO would destroy this for EK. Still, if they can fill more economy seats on a two class and still be happy then I guess it can't be all bad. I used to fly three times a year BHX-DXB-MCT for four years (only once on a three class a/c) and never flew on a less than 90% full flight, with Business often being totally full.

Out of interest, there are now very few EK destinations worldwide that are two class, some Indian sub continent destinations are plus only IST, JKT, MNL and DUR being the notable others. In the long run, will EK do mostly away with two class aircraft if the number of two class destinations served becomes so small?

Fingers crossed for TK, perhaps daily in summer then reduced for winter? Or maybe same frequency but more 321 aircraft used?

[splash&dash]

Ref runway extension doubters-
Now with the HS2 approved, surely this boosts the business case even more?!
Rail time between Birmingham interchange and Euston - 38mins! That's probably quicker than LGW to central London.

I know it's a long way off but by the time it's built London airports will be overflowing. IMHO a longer runway at BHX will be a great asset for the future.

[OltonPete]

jabird

Yes I should have explained that a little bit better.

I mean the number of seats on offer in terms of capacity, this was due to the number of 360 seat three class aircraft used instead of the 428/442-seat two class Boeing 77W's (16 in total or 32 sectors).

A capacity downgrade but for cattle class no doubt a very popular seating upgrade - 386 or 400 economy seats down to 304 or 310.

Ryanair Murcia back to four a week for 2012 for the third time!!!!

Pete

[revo]

Im guessing the Ryanair bit is Murcia Pete?

Chris

[OltonPete]

Beat me to it Chris, I was editing the post as you wrote.

A quick check of the other routes showed little change and still some gaps.

Pete

[GayFriendly]

Lets hope that them there little gaps are filled in in a constructive manner by FR in the form of a new destination or two (preferably one that is not already served)! I live in hope! :)

[Jonnyf]

I would think it is time Ryanair considered services back to city destinations, be nice to see them serve the likes of Bergamo, Barcelona, Madrid etc and the likes of Skavsta back that performed well before they were axed :(

[jabird]

Ref runway extension doubters-
Now with the HS2 approved, surely this boosts the business case even more?!
Rail time between Birmingham interchange and Euston - 38mins! That's probably quicker than LGW to central London.

I know it's a long way off but by the time it's built London airports will be overflowing. IMHO a longer runway at BHX will be a great asset for the future.

I'm still sceptical, but what it does is put the cost in perspective - hs2 is £145m per mile, similar to the whole project cost of the runway extension! If BHX get it right, they open up the airport to routes spanning all corners of the globe (well LAX and PVG on a good day).

HOWEVER - the 38 mins is only to the site, to the east of the M42. A people mover with a capacity of just 1000 people per hour will then trundle along with stops at the NEC, the existing station, and only then the airport. Airport claim 3 minutes, I think that is highly ambitious, 7-10 would be more realistic.

Then there is the question of cost. At the moment, a comparable hs1 journey would be Ashford to London, also 38 mins. There are no advance tickets, just peak for £32.20, off peak £30.40 each way, double for return. Why would hs2 be any cheaper than this, as the hs1 domestic is a secondary service on the back of Eurostar, and the distance on this journey is less?

Something will give in the SE, and at least one runway will be build somewhere. Will BHX attract some passengers on some flights to come out of London? Yes, I understand it already does - but we're talking a few percent, not big numbers.

Meanwhile, hs2 will meet Crossrail at Old Oak Common, making LHR more attractive to people who would otherwise use BHX.

So I ask how many new routes will exist as a result of hs2 being there? I suggest very few. What would happen though is that BHX will become more accessible from points further north who use services that join the line at Rugely. What remains to be seen is whether this traffic would support any long haul routes, or whether these people would continue to either use Manchester for this, or continue down to London.

I'd still rather pin my hopes on expanding the short haul network - Johnnyf, I agree about those cities, but when you say they were succesful, do you mean loads or yields?

[Jonnyf]

Loads, Do not have ideas of yields for what Skavsta and the likes of Torp, Weeze, Hahn, Pisa, Krakow, Bologna etc,

Ryanair however go where it is cheapest to operate and not exactly what routes passengers want to see !!

[jabird]

Ryanair however go where it is cheapest to operate and not exactly what routes passengers want to see !!

Very true, nor do they go where us armchair ppruners want them to go either!

That's why my disappointment is with Flybe. I don't know if they will look that way, just because of Flybenordic, again, doesn't mean they will connect the two up.

[OltonPete]

jabird & Jonnyf

Sad as it sounds I used to monitor the booking engine for fares quite often in the early days of the Ryanair base and of course I was quite interested in going to some of the destinations mentioned.

My thoughts from random checks mainly outside of July & August: -

NYO - Loads good, and fares in general were low-medium

TRF - Loads average outside of summer months and fares rock bottom mainly

PSA - Average loads and fares fairly high for FR compared to others

HHN & NRN - loads average although NRN did pick up towards the end but fares always seem to be rock bottom

BLG - Loads average but never really checked fares on this route

KRK- Loads good, fares medium to high (I assumed dropped in favour of EMA)

OPO - Loads good, perhaps average in the depths of winter, fares reasonable
but reported as very low yield from ancillaries especially in the low season.

Pete

[jabird]

BLG - Loads average but never really checked fares on this route

Do you mean BLQ? I used this route, and there were even some business users, iirc load was quite good, but I only paid £5 all in!

Even if loads good and yields ok, it has to suit the operating pattern of the a/c - but with 50 bases to juggle between including BHX, if enough demand is there, the route should work!

Then again, NYO in a 738 v ARN in an E175 - as they say, do the math!

[OltonPete]

Yep BLQ.

£5 :eek:

Pete

[jabird]

Yes, out for £5, back for €5. These darned airport codes with funny third letters!

I returned from PSA, and based myself in Florence. Once I'd seen that dodgy piece of Italian engineering, a taxi wanted €50 to take me to the airport! PSA is about as close Ryanair get to the city centre!

[Jonnyf]

As Ryanair seem to be keeping to polish and bucket and spade routes from BHX i can only presume that if the gap was to be filled it would be from destinations within these regions, one possible route not served before within this criteria could be Valencia, or to try new areas such as Riga or Tallinn.

[Jonnyf]

Although Flybe now have connections available in the drop down box via CDG, Waterford has now appeared at the bottom of the menu under other? Anyone have information on this possible route pick up by Flybe?

[crewmeal]

Why has BHX become a 'car' park for aircraft? Ryanair park their unused 737's during the winter, and now there are 2 Greek ATRs parked for the forseeable future. I guess this would mean no room for diversions. I would have thought that Gloucester, Bournemouth or Filton at a push would have been cheaper and more suitable.

Still I guess it's easy revenue for the airport. I wouldn't be surprised if it was cheaper to park an aircraft than a car after my recent experience of charges ;)

[nigel osborne]

Crewmeal re BHX Airpark.

I asked someone in the know about this and his reply was that their simply is little money in diversions any more.

Years ago most planes had passengers offloaded and BHX could make money out of the full service.

The vast amount of diversions now are just for fuel, splash and dash, as most are CAT3 equipped and can land in thick fog.

So BHX is seizing any chance to make money,ie plane storage, freight when it can get it.(3 AN-12s lined up at BHX this morning).

You are right though BHX is now very limited in the amount of diversions it can now take.:\

Nigel

[gppj25]

Crew meal

The RNR aircraft are not parked up all of the winter. They are all used on a rotational basis so that hours/maintenance are spread across the fleet. They couldn't do this is some of them were parked elsewhere as it would be prohibitively expensive to rotate them in and out of BHX.

From an airport perspective, some income from parking is better than no income; plus we can assume that RNR are a valued 'customer' and are looked after accordingly.

Regards

[Jamie2k9]

Press announcement early next week at Waterford airport in regaurd to BHX being resumed.

[Monty Gordo]

'RE Waterford
I can confirm 100% Aer Arann will not be operating Waterford to Birmingham next summer '

Over to you again Revo, or is there a different airline involved....

[CARNMANORLAD]

Flybe to start WAT - BHX. Official announcement next week as Jamie2K9 has stated.

[Jonnyf]

lets hope Flybe start more routes from BHX this year

[Fosters]

there are 2 Greek ATRs

To be 3 ATR's in the next hour or so !!!!

[revo]

I have been told SX-BIK is routing to Exeter today?

Chris

[OltonPete]

Not just daily, Turkish Airlines goes eight weekly from 25 March 2012.

Departures from BHX as follows

Monday 11.30
Tuesday 14.15
Wednesday 11.30
Thursday 14.15
Friday 11.30 & 14.15
Saturday 14.15
Sunday 14.15

Bookable on the TK website and in GDS but actually announced although it was on a BHX e-mail today stating daily.

Brilliant news

Pete

[GayFriendly]

Wow, fantastic news, thanks OP! Got to give TK credit, they hung in there on low loads for quite a while (I used them in 2010, both flights I took were barely a third full) so they must have seen long term potential in BHX, its a massive vote of confidence in the airport by a major international airline player :D I can also highly recommend IST as a city break, a really cosmopolitan city and the souq is amazing, brilliant for spices, fabrics and trainers

[crewmeal]

Agreed GF. TK have stuck by their word and stayed the course, even when loads have been low. People knock TK for all sorts of reasons but they provide a good service of connections to different places and in many case as an alternative to EK. I often fly to the Middle East and use TK a lot. They are cheaper and the service onboard is good.

If that deal with PK had gone through some time ago I'm sure we would have seen 14 services a week or more.

[chinapattern]

Not really BHX related but I notice that Hainan Airlines serve Budapest which seems a bit of an odd ball route to me, although I'm sure someone will explain the reason behind it. How does this route perform? Would a possible increase to an A330/340 and a tag on to BHX with fifth-freedom rights work to Beijing?

Regarding TK, just shows what a bit of advertising does. You can't help but notice the amount of taxis driving round the city centre with TK stickers on the side.

[ATNotts]

Great news on the daily+ IST service.

I doesn't surprise me that TK, as a full service carrier gave the route a chance to develop. In the old days (pre Ryanair, Easyjet et al) it was always reckoned that a new route needed up to 2 years to develop - and generally carriers would give a reasonable time for a route to achieve profitability. TK have obviously reached the point where the route will be come a fixture a little ahead of the 2 year point.

It's such a shame that FR / EZY cannot be as patient, but patience is not an attribute in todays business - whether commercial aviation or other sectors.

[Jonnyf]

All Turkish flights scheduled to be operated by A320-100/200 aircraft. Of course this will vary with demand.

[jabird]

I asked someone in the know about this and his reply was that their simply is little money in diversions any more.

Nigel - surely a diversion goes to whichever airport is operationally capable of taking the a/c and turning it around. I don't imagine the pilot haggling with BHX whilst the co-pilot barters down EMA on the other line - or have I missed something?

GF - yes, I agree, IST is great news, I assume a pretty good chunk of these are transferring on, not that I want to denigrate IST in its own right, which is indeed a fascinating city to visit, and gateway to a vast interior.

I flew with TK to IST in Dec 94, there was a group of 7 of use, and 3 other passengers in a 738. My feelings at the time were that this is what you get with state carriers not applying commercial logic, but the long term view obviously paints a very different picture. Well done TK, well done BHX.

[crewmeal]

Why doesn't BHX promote itself advertising on TV, billboards, taxis etc? Before someone says costs you have to speculate to accumulate. EK have got a great ad on tv at the moment feature Australia from various airports. Guess what BHX is even featured. Perhaps TK should start promoting BHX?

[Jonnyf]

Alicante – DAILY
Bratislava – TUE, THU, SAT
Bydgoszcz – TUE, THU, SAT
Dublin – 3X DAILY (2X SUN)
Faro – TUE, THU, SAT
Fuerteventura – MON, FRI
Gdansk – TUE, SAT
Gerona – MON, WED, FRI, SUN
Gran Canaria – WED, SUN
Ibiza – TUE, THU, SUN
Katowice – MON, WED, FRI
Kaunas – WED, SUN
Lanzarote – MON, WED, FRI
Londonderry – MON, WED, FRI, SUN
Malaga – DAILY
Malta – MON, FRI
Montpellier – MON, FRI
Murcia – MON, TUE, THU, SAT
Palma – TUE, WED, THU, SAT, SUN
Reus – WED, FRI, SUN
Rzeszow – WED, SUN
Tenerife – TUE, THUR, SAT
Trieste – THU, SUN


90 Weekly Arrivals and Departures for 2012, Still the Odd gap or 2

[Burpbot]

Regarding Hainan at BUD, I noticed flybe.com now list BHX/BUD I assumed code share, but maybe its a feeder to Hainan on the 175?

[Monty Gordo]

The New Year is bringing some hope for BHX. With the increases announced earlier by Monarch, Lufthansa and BMIbaby and even more recently Turkish Airlines to IST, it seems odd that Easyjet's association with BHX has not progressed.

They clearly must be happy with BHX as can be seen that on some Saturdays they have three rotations to Geneva. But as to any other development, particularly a summer programme, they remains zilch.

Is there any likelihood in the future??? Does anyone have any idea????

[ATNotts]

Monty Gordo:

Regarding EasyJet, to paraphrase an American president (Clinton I believe) "It's the economy, stupid".

Geneva in the winter is a no-brainer - being the "Palma" of the wintersports season. If you can't fill seats to GVA between December and March you're probably doing something badly wrong. Generally, however EZY will look to set up bases capable of sustaining 5+ aircraft, but exactly how could they utilise them proftably from an airport that already has three low cost carriers (MON, WW and FR) extensively serving the bucket and spade brigade, plus a thriving IT sector. That leaves them fighting the European makors that do an excellent job feeding much of Europe through excellent hubs, and by the time you've added on all their eroneous hidden charges, the EasyJets of this world often aren't actually that competitive fareswise against Swiss, Lufthansa, KLM etc.

You can (and probably will) say, well if that's the case, how do they make a success of Manchester? In my opinion this is down to the ease of access from Birmingham and East / South Midlands to the two major LoCo hubs of Stansted and Luton - both of which can be reached by road in less than 2 hours making them attractive points of departure for Midlanders, who, unlike the enthusiast has little interest on flying locally, but more in the available fare. I think, by contrast, nobody in their right mind would want to drive from Greater Manchester to either London Airport to start their holiday.

All this combines to make EZY ask themselves, whether they will actually increase their profits by opening a base in Birmingham at this time of economic uncertainty. If and when the economy recovers then I would expect the business case for BHX to become stronger, but we shall have to wait a while for that time, and by then, those carriers that are embedded in Birmingham may have expanded themselves to make BHX an unatractive for place for EZY to set us a base.

[Monty Gordo]

No-brainer!

I take your point about the economies of setting up a base. But that is not how Easy currently service BHX, it is serviced by away-based aircraft. And that is my point, if they can do so well with 'no brainer' Geneva in the winter, then why can't they also service some of the 'no brainer' summer destinations - again with away-based aircraft?

[simoncorbett]

More good news for BHX as I am told FedEx are expanding there international delivery services from Birmingham starting at the end of March

[nigel osborne]

Simoncorbett, re Fed Ex,

Believe they are ending their prop services into the UK which explains there decision to go to jets via other cities.

If they are expanding its core BHX parcel service on top of this thats even better news:D

Nigel

[Topspotter]

Brums a great airport, good to see its doing so well

[chinapattern]

2012 looking good so far;
- Bmibaby launching Rome, Lisbon and Barcelona
- Monarch launching Rome, Milan, Venice, Dubrovnik and Heraklion
- Lufthansa launching Berlin
- Turkish going x8 weekly
- Runway extension going ahead
- Slight capacity increase from Air Transat going all A330 for the summer season
- Thomson re-introducing Punta Cana for the Winter 12/13 season
As well as;
- Flybe possibly taking on Waterford
- Rumours of Aer Lingus launching Belfast
- Good chance of Emirates going x3 daily
On the downside you've got Air France/Brit Air dropping Lyon but on a whole not a bad start for the new year.

[getonittt]

On the downside you've got Air France/Brit Air dropping Lyon but on a whole not a bad start for the new year

Is this definitely the case? Only today i have been looking for flights from BHX to TLS in june and the search engines have a host of connections using the BZH flight via LYS. Don't forget this is not just a point to point destination as i have also had the option of connecting in Lyon in the past , once when searching for BHX-BRU i kid you not!

[Jonnyf]

Aer Lingus also adding a Sunday morning rotation from end of March making Dublin service 20 weekly.

[OltonPete]

As I understand it the report was not 100% accurate.

Lyon to BHX, HAM & PRG were/are under review and not cancelled.

However as we know "under review" is hardly a ringing endorsement
but the route is still bookable but I suppose could be cancelled at the
drop of a hat with reservations transferred to CDG.

As I have said before the aircraft is a CRJ1 and they have been leaving
Brit Air fleet and it was only a matter of time before it became "under review"

Double daily is CRJ7 is not really ideal for a service that averages 35 pax
but there are options non-more so than AF's "partner" flybe perhaps
single daily although that will depend on the dynamics of the route itself
as getonittt has stated it is used for transfers and single daily flights do not always work.

easyjet

I am surprised they did not try more routes with away based aircraft as suggested and I believe that they were considered at one point a few years back (Madrid, Berlin). The spin about the size of bases has been less than reliable. East Mids & Dortmund were closed stating that they were too small with 2-3 aircraft. How many based at Newcastle and will be at Southend?

Pete

[OltonPete]

I have been told TK will be daily and not eight weekly with just the one flight
on a Friday. Apparently GDS and the TK site will be adjusted shortly.

Pete

[TSR2]

How many based at Newcastle and will be at Southend?

Blackpool is a base with only 2 aircraft.

[EI-BUD]

TSR2; yes but that's Jet2!!!!

Ryanair have bases with 1 aircraft, EMA closed as it was loss making and the brand was late to the airport amidst huge competition.

Dortmund, was breaking any delph and for Easyjet this coupled with the restrictions such as the time the airport closes at each night make it unattractive, but the profitable routes were maintained but served by aircraft from other bases.

Easyjet are trying to avoid competition from other loco's and this makes sense, their strategy is 'low fares from convenient airports', this is evident at LGW, but you could intrepret this to mean 'flights from hub airports, where most other LOCO's wont go or cant go, where we can compete with legacy carriers, charge above our network average fares, yet be alot cheaper than the BA's, AZ's, AF's etc of this world and in the mean time attract the business traveller with good frequency'.

This is my take on it and to be fair setting up at BHX a base, as much as it would be great, the competition could join them on pretty much any route and wheres the potential for growing profit there'. Probably makes commercial sense in terms of their strategy.

EI-BUD

[GayFriendly]

You can (and probably will) say, well if that's the case, how do they make a success of Manchester? In my opinion this is down to the ease of access from Birmingham and East / South Midlands to the two major LoCo hubs of Stansted and Luton - both of which can be reached by road in less than 2 hours making them attractive points of departure for Midlanders, who, unlike the enthusiast has little interest on flying locally, but more in the available fare.


An excellent point ATN - just as an example, three of my colleagues at work have separately booked to fly from LTN with EZY in the summer, respectively to Nice, Rome and Barcelona, all of which are routes available from BHX in S12. The reason: price, EZY fares were cheaper than foing from BHX. And living in Leamington Spa, Luton is not that far for them to get to if no traffic on the M1. The central location and ease of surface access to BHX is IMO actually its achilles heel, as it makes it also a very easy place to get to other places from!! Never say never but I just can't see EZY setting up a base at BHX in the middle of four established bases (LTN, MAN, LPL and BRS) all of which are easily accessible from different but substantial parts of the BHX catchment area.

[chinapattern]

Surely the catctment areas for MAN and LPL overlap a considerable amount? EZY seem to have made a success of both of these bases and at MAN there is considerably more competition that there would be at BHX. Off the top of my head I can think of a number of unserved routes (Madrid, Valencia, Pisa, Verona, Stockholm, Cologne, Geneva, Athens) that I would love someone like EZY or Jet2 to come in and have a go at. I wonder if these parties are keeping an eye on what happens with bmibaby?

[ATNotts]

chinapattern

You're right, but the Merseyside and Greater Manchester conurbations are combined, much larger than the West Midlands, even if you define the West Midlands as the old metropolitan county, that encompassed Coventry to the south (barely an hour from Luton) and Wolverhampton to the northwest (barely an hour from Manchester). Added to that there are some sad souls that will brave the M62 to get to Manchester from Leeds and Bradford.

None of this make the case for BHX not existing, but it does make carriers in the "pile it high and sell it cheap" market think twice before joining an already comparatively crowded market in Birmingham.

BHX's big scoring points are the NEC and ICC, which draw business travellers to the city, and as a result makes the airport attractive for legacy carriers, and TK's commitment to BHX testifies to that, along with existing ccarriers, such as LH, EK, KL etc etc.

[Monty Gordo]

Having recently rekindled the question of EZY and BHX, and having regard and respect for all the posts made, I return to the original point -- not for EZY to establish a base in Brum but to service it from bases on the continent. In this way the likes of Verona, Stockholm, Cologne, Athens, Valencia, Pisa, Madrid and others can be serviced. For EZY, like winter routes to Geneva and Grenoble, there is the ability to develop routes 'without' the need for a base. After all is said and done, Ryanair do it, ie FAO for example.

Forgive me if some of the cities mentioned are not EZY bases...

[Love_joy]

The new tower is making good progress, and I understand will be externally complete prior to the Olympics so we have somewhere to hang the 5 neon rings we bought on eBay.

How about the runway extension though? Have the found the cash to make it happen? If so, when will the work start?

Rgds,
LJ

[LGS6753]

Apparently the skip has been double-booked.

[nigel osborne]

Lovejoy.

Re runway extension.

Work has already started !! Well sort of.:eek:

At present they are clearing a large number of trees infront and to the far side of the new ATC tower down to the field.

This is in preparation of building a large surface car park from the side of the new hotel,swallowing up the field behind the Tristar Hotel.Sadly an easy spotting location will be lost.:{

This being needed as the new runway extension taxiway cuts straight through the current surface car park behind and to the right of the fuel farm. So the new car park being started replaces this.;)

Full work on the A45 diversion starts in July this year, and the extension starts June 2013 for a 2014 finish.:D

Nigel

[Captain Planet]

Article this morning from Birmingham Post this morning seems to be confirming new route.

Flybe launches new route from Birmingham to Waterford - Latest Business News - Business News - Business - Birmingham Post (http://www.birminghampost.net/birmingham-business/birmingham-business-news/businesslatest/2012/01/17/flybe-launches-new-route-from-birmingham-to-waterford-65233-30135905/)

CP.

[RealFish]

A couple of questions / thoughts re the runway extension

Great news that preparatory work is now underway - there was always a doubt in my mind that this would come to fruition - but what will BHX get for its extra 400 (or is it now 350 mtres)? At just under 3000 metres, will that allow for long range 744 / A380 departures at something approaching MTOW?

Also I remember a few years back Emirates were loudly pushing for this extension and wondered if part of their strategy might be to offer BHX to 'far-east' destinations via a DXB sector or possibly DXB /SIN stops onto Oz.

[martyn0610]

I should imagine that 3000 meters will allow for fully loaded A380 and 744 operations, the required runway length for the A380 at MTOW is 2750 meters so still some to spare :O

[Daza]

BHX December passenger figures were up 4.1% and 2011 saw a 0.5% increase in passengers. At least a positive, many other UK airports are posting double digit growth for December but several were badly affected by snow in 2010 so maybe falsely high. Source CAA.
Daza

[Ringwayman]

Err.... EK already offer the BHX-DXB-far east/Australia option?!?

[nigel osborne]

Realfish,

Emirates already do flights from BHX to many World destinations.Im off to the Maldives with them from BHX soon.To DXB then the connecting flt to Male Maldives.

They do the same to Australia.No European airport has any EK flight direct to any other place but Dubai.

In relation to runway length and MTOW. It all depends where you want to fly and conditions.

A 380 at sea level needs about 2,800metres on MTOW. As your airfields get higher or hotter you need more runway length as the air gets thinner.

BHX is about 325ft above sea level so a bit more is required.

Mr Keehoe said last year that the runway extension at 350m (taking it to 2,950m) would enable planes to fly to 95% of the long haul destinations it wants.:ok:

So all of India, parts of China, Hong Kong, Vietnam, Sri Lanka Thailand (just) etc should be reachable..However probably not Malaysia, Phillipines, Japan or, Indonesia.

Think you would expect the first service to benefit would be EK, perhaps launching A380s to mark the opening of the extension in 2014..unlike before they would not be weight restricted.

Nigel

[RealFish]

Ringwayman

Errr...I'm talking about multi sector/segment flights, not connecting flights. I.E. where there is 1 stop en route (at the DXB hub) but no change of aircraft needed.

e.g. BA9 LHR to SYD (via 1 stop at BKK); the former BHX to ATQ (via VIE); BA2153 LGW to GND (via 1 stop at BGI)


N.O.

Thanks for the info. Enjoy your trip to Male (which would of course appear on the BHX departure board if operated as a multi sector flight)

[jabird]

Realfish,

Errr...I'm talking about multi sector/segment flights, not connecting flights. I.E. where there is 1 stop en route (at the DXB hub) but no change of aircraft needed.

e.g. BA9 LHR to SYD (via 1 stop at BKK); the former BHX to ATQ (via VIE); BA2153 LGW to GND (via 1 stop at BGI)

BA do this with aircraft BASED at LHR & LGW. BA would not, for example, operate JFK - LHR - DXB as a through route, I am not aware of any airline doing that by going through their hub and then on somewhere else as part of the same continuation. It makes no sense operationally. I have seen some flights to the USA labelled as such, they seem to take the same flight number through - e.g. iirc LHR - LAx - HNL with UA, but I doubt the same aircraft.

The BA flight you quote to GND makes a very brief stop in BGI, same as LGW-ANU-SKB. That's a 20 minute hop, pretty sure it doesn't even take on fuel in SKB, done because these Caribbean routes wouldn't be viable if operated ptp, and BA don't have 767s @LGW. Totally different to the Kangaroo route, which needs a tech stop anyway, and the aircraft is cleaned, people often assigned different seats etc - so there isn't much difference in having a connecting flight. Granted, if sector 1 is delayed, you will probably miss sector 2, but you can also have fast connections, where you are off on sector 2 before you would otherwise be cleaned and refuelled.

Nigel,

Surely these are just figures from the heaviest of heavies. The Dreamliner must be able to reach further - and when you say China, are we talking PEK & PVG?

[RealFish]

Jabird - thanks for your comments.

I mentioned the BA flights as I have been on both services (the GND flight out and back just before Xmas). At BKK we were on the ground for a little over an hour - a swift 45 mins at BGI) in both cases it was enough time to: deplane passengers for those airports; do some cleaning; undertake a security check on the rest of us and our hand luggage; then take on new passengers and crew for the final destination.

You're right! I suppose the issue is the minimum connection time vs a stop, but if you can be up and away within 90 mins - there could be marketing advantages for both EK and BHX in launching 'direct' Asian services (albeit via DXB).

Does it not make sense operationally? Does an airline version of a 'cross city' service not 'sweat the assets' and keeps aircraft in the air for longer? Just a thought.

That said there are bound to be some regulatory impediments / CAA / governmental rules that wouldn't allow a foreign carrier to originate 'direct' flights from and on to countries outside their domicile?

RF

[jabird]

RF,

I have only ever done super-long-haul once, and I understood all flights operated on similar lines. My route was FRA-DXB-BWN & BWN-BKK-DXB-LHR.

In both cases, we were taken out into the terminal, and iirc, back into different seats. So are you saying you stayed on board at BKK? I didn't think that was the way they did it.

Does an airline version of a 'cross city' service not 'sweat the assets' and keeps aircraft in the air for longer? Just a thought.

Not really. Even a long distance train will pass through certain stations which are effectively hubs and change crews, load the trolley etc. You are still suggesting a landing at DXB - so all those passengers from BHX would fan out to numerous places across Asia & beyond - why pick one? Utilisation wouldn't be that different, but a particular type would then be committed to two sectors instead of using different ones - for example, there is discussion above of bringing the A380 into BHX, which may suit certain timings - but the onward routes may be operated by anything from an A330 up.

There are numerous flights that operate with so-called 'fifth freedoms', and there are even treaties of 'cabotage' allowing foreign airlines to operate domestic flights within a different country - although I can't think of any flights ex UK that take advantage of that - EU Open Skies is a different step altogether.

There was a good thread a few weeks ago about EY taking a slice of AB, and the political issues that brought up.

Hope that gives you a few pointers, but there should be a fair few airline insiders here who can elaborate further.

[RealFish]

Jabird

Yes! on BA9 we were given the option of remaining on the plane if we wished or stretching our legs in the terminal building, airside (some went off to buy duty free stuff), but you had to take your personal possesions with you while on board security checks were carried out.

No such option at Barbados (and Antigua on previous flights - NB: being very disloyal to BHX here!) though. You were required to stay put on the aircraft whilst we waited for new passengers /crew.

Take you point about pax fanning out at DXB - but thought that this might be a marketing opportunity for Brum and less down-time for the equipment.

[jabird]

thought that this might be a marketing opportunity for Brum and less down-time for the equipment

It wouldn't make much difference to the downtime - an a/c can come back to a hub / base, and be turned around to go out to a different destination just as quickly as it could be on a continuation.

As for marketing, they are already doing that. Regional airports love to market destinations you can reach through one stop connections - others do it via KLM and Amsterdam. Look at the people mover, that's all about China, not Dubai, and thankfully no longer that screaming baby!

[Fairdealfrank]

An example of cabotage: LHR-BFS on EI

[nigel osborne]

Thanks Realfish,

Yes would be nice to have through flights but doubt it will happen.

Nigel

[EI-BUD]

There are numerous flights that operate with so-called 'fifth freedoms', and there are even treaties of 'cabotage' allowing foreign airlines to operate domestic flights within a different country - although I can't think of any flights ex UK that take advantage of that - EU Open Skies is a different step altogether.




Prior to Deregulation Portugal, Greece and Ireland (Ironically) had many fifth freedom routes in place, e.g. I can't think of that many examples:
Dublin/Manchester/ many points in Europe with AerLingus
Dublin/Bristol/Brussels Aer Lingus
Dublin/Birmingham/Copenhagen with SAS
Dublin/Manchester/Lisbon with TAP




An example of cabotage: LHR-BFS on EI


With a deregulated EU air market, there is no need for any such special arrangements (or Laws) or 'fifth freedoms' due to deregulation?? Is there?

Describing Aer Lingus ex Belfast as a Cabotage is technically fitting the definiton but many in NI or on the Island of Ireland would not see Aer Lingus as a foreign airline!!

EI-BUD

[BRUpax]

It may have been mentioned, I don't know, but it seems that Brussels Airlines are reducing from 5 to 3 flights a day. Happened to notice this looking at making some bookings in May. And they have removed my two favourite timings to boot. To be honest I was often wondering when it would happen as the loads on my favourite timings rarely exceeded 30-40%. Ah well, I guess it'll have to be LH from DUS then.

[jabird]

An example of cabotage: LHR-BFS on EI

That comes under the EU Open Skies. I was referring to any flight ex-UK which then continued as a domestic route in another country, outside the EU - although I cannot think of one inside the EU either - i.e. international leg followed by domestic leg, not EI, FR, U2 etc operating bases all over the EU as Open Skies allows them.

Back in the 80s, wouldn't PER-SYD have been operated as a continuation from LHR having stopped at a couple of other places en route?

Sorry if we're veering slightly away from BHX here. I know we had the AI route operating BOM-BHX-YYZ, but that doesn't include a domestic sector. Again, think that used to operate a long the lines of YVR-YYZ-LHR-BOM?

[GayFriendly]

Not good news about SN but yes I have noticed that loads are not exactly on fire and haven't been for a while. Trying to be positive, maybe it will be less flights but perhaps on 319's?

On another thread apparently a deal has been done to buy BMIBaby, reported by Bloomberg? A German airline investment group who set up Eurowings then turned around DBA before selling it onto AB.....Baby turns into UK Wings? Or Air Birmingham? I can think of worse things to happen

[jabird]

OK, LGW-TAB-POS would include a domestic sector, but afaik TAB is routed via GND & POS via UVF, so this doesn't occur. Even if it did, not sure if that would count strictly as cabotage, as the domestic sector wouldn't be sold.

BE operate a domestic sector first, then international INV-LSI-BGO, but even though Norway isn't in EU, they are still in open skies.

[OltonPete]

This is what I have noticed in one GDS - earlier this week BHX was five daily for summer 2012 in the week using the RJ85 (default setting) and with the usual reductions in school holidays.

Today GDS shows five daily but 2 x RJ100 and 1 x RJ85 and 2 x Q400!!!!

The Q400 is on the 11.35/12.05 and 15.30/16.00 services and this is a new
listing this week.

However Brussels Airlines website changes to three flights daily with a mix of RJ100's and RJ85's.

Have they yet to load the Q400 flights or has the agreement with Austrian terminated?

Looking at the times listed for the three flights, it makes little sense

I would say it is not a bright idea to have nothing arriving in BHX between 09.00 and 19.50 if you want to maintain your business traffic and if you want to maximise your hub connections I don't think a gap of 9.45 to 20.20 ex BHX is very bright either.

I hope for some more changes before late March.

The two daily Q400's would be quite a significant change in their own right and to be honest it would be a logical one but three a day at the wrong times would be a disaster for business.

Pete

[OltonPete]

Averages per my records for schedule pax, BHX blog and libhomeradar 2010 in
brackets. Some excellent ones and some bad even for December although little point comparing to December 2010 as it was a total mess due weather.

Obviously Istanbul averaging 100 for the first time in December is good and
solid performances on Paris, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Munich, Hanover & Newark.

Emirates due to the capacity cut looks quite good at 78%. Only nine 442 seat
aircraft assuming BS & BT are now 428 as per planespotters.net.

DUBLIN 41,392 (35838) - 117 pax - 64%
DUBAI 39,471 (41793) - 318 pax - 78%
AMSTERDAM 37,048 (31694) -100 pax - 76%Â
PARIS (CHARLES DE GAULLE) 28,801 (22603) - 87 pax - 72%
TENERIFE (SURREINA SOFIA) 14706 (13194) - 156 pax - 76%
FRANKFURT MAIN 20,639 (18453) - 95 pax - 60%
ALICANTE 14483 (13310) - 161 pax - 83%
ARRECIFE 6792 (6796) - 142 pax - 71%
MUNICH 12,507 (9778) - 81 pax - 76%
MALAGA 12,362 (10379) - 165 pax - 82%
ZURICH 11,550 (11310) - 63 pax - 63%
DUSSELDORF 11,114 (11003) - 44 pax - 53%
GENEVA 6731 (3692) - 112 pax - 73%
BRUSSELS 8,405 (8487) - 42 pax - 48%
ISLAMABAD 8,174 (255 pax) - 72%
NEW YORK (NEWARK) 7,568 (6928) - 151 pax - 86%
FUERTEVENTURA 2924 (1510) - 133 pax - 69%
SHARM EL SHEIKH (OPHIRA) 6,672 down -28.92 %Â
LAS PALMAS 3071 (2977) - 128 pax - 64%
COPENHAGEN 6,119 (5527) - 71 pax - 65%
CORK 5,906 (5229) - 49 pax - 68%
FARO 5,144 (4511) - 143 pax - 70%
HANOVER 3963 (3723) - 55 pax - 70%
ASHKHABAD 5,084 (5802) - 150 pax - 79%
PRAGUE 4,668 (3845) - 111 - 75%
ISTANBUL 4,616 (3205) - 100 pax - 64%
BRATISLAVA 4,276 (4513) - 153 pax - 81%
BYDGOSZCZ 4,125 (3846) - 147 pax - 78%
IRELAND WEST(KNOCK) 3,359 (2954) - 99 PAX - 66%
LARNACA 3,325 (3718) - 185 - 86%Â
STUTTGART 2,867 (2878) - 41 PAX - 52%
SHANNON 2,744 (2477) - 46 PAX - 64%
CHAMBERY 451 (395) - 56 PAX - 72%
GDANSK 2,506 (2373) - 139 pax - 74%
MALTA 2,381 (2884) - 149 pax - 79%
GERONA 2,322 (3030) - 145 pax - 77%
RZESZOW 2,289 (2606) - 143 pax - 76%
KATOWICE 2,148 (2628) - 134 pax - 71%
KAUNAS 1,917 (nil) 137 pax - 72%
HAMBURG 1,722 (2104) 37 pax - 48%
LYON 1,568 (1723) - 30 pax - 60%
MILAN (MALPENSA) 1,468 (2178) - 35 pax - 45%
GOTEBORG 788 (1573) - 19 pax - 40%

Pete

[OltonPete]

What an IT mess for a business that relies the web.

I checked the Brussels Airlines website earlier and for a
brief moment it was showing five flights on Monday 14th May
(I think that was the date). I then tried the next day and
three flights were shown, so I went back to the Monday and
it was three!

All further searches took ages so I filled in a contact form.

Within an hour I got a reply (very impressed) and they stated
five daily in the week and gave me a contact number to book
the flights. I was also screen-printed the schedule showing
five flights to choose from. No reason was given why only three
flights are showing on their website.

Website still showing three :confused:

Pete

[BRUpax]

That's interesting Olton Pete, thank you. They've already lost my business in May as a consequence of that apparent error. I booked with LH from DUS instead.

[GayFriendly]

Still no change - website showing five timetabled flights a day BHX-BRU at timings broadly similar to now. When you try to book though, only three flights come up......0630, 0940 and 2020 from BHX. Confused? I am! Timings are though suitable for day trips to be made in both directions. Perhaps this is a necessary rationalisation of flights to secure the future of the route?

[OltonPete]

The Air France site indicates that the service ends 25/3/12.

flybe shows it direct but "full".

GDS just shows the flybe code-share.

Another Brit Air/AF route under review at the same time was Hamburg and this appears to be ending the same day.

Pete

[Jonnyf]

looks like the start of the A45 diversion has started, vegetation being taken away and a builders cabin has been placed.

[nigel osborne]

Johnyf

Yes initial drainage trenches bein dug,although works very low scale at present.Just 1 digger and vehicle.

Will be the West Midlands biggest construction site when it fully kicks in,July.:ok:

Nice to see them on the other side clearing all the trees and taking down the fence.Good view now of the ATC tower.

This area will have a new surface car park taking up the field too.This as the new extended taxiway goes straight through where the surface car park is presently near the end of fuel farm

As part of Solihulls Council planning approval BHX has to plant 4 new trees for every one cut down,and 3 hedgerows for everyone removed.They have bought a plot of land to plant a new wood .:D

Nigel

[GayFriendly]

As BHX loses its AF to LYS so (according to another forum), SOU gains it, albeit a once a week service using a CRJ900 - yields must have been dead duck dire from BHX for AF not to consider first reducing frequency from BHX before chopping it altogether....

[mattjwood]

What kind of new Aircraft can we expect to see once the runway has been extended? If anything new?

[Occams Razor]

Ryanair Announces Budapest - Birmingham Airport (http://www.birminghamairport.co.uk/meta/news/2012/01/budapest-news-article.aspx)

[Jonnyf]

Great news about Budapest, Finally a Ryanair route to a major city!

[Monty Gordo]

Johnyf I think I know to what you are alluding and also welcome the addition of Budapest, but don't you think that Dublin, Gdansk, Malaga, Bratislava and a few others are also major cities?

[Jonnyf]

I do agree with what you say, what i mean is in terms of Spreading from the areas of the likes of Spain, Poland and starting to connect business center's such as Budapest to Birmingham, I know this route will be more suited to city break customers with 2 flights a week but it is nice to see encouragement from Ryanair from trying a route that is not just for tourists but also business Travelers.

[ATNotts]

Jonnyf:

Only a desperate business traveller would use FR ahead of LH, KL, LX to get to BUD. I used them twice (on business), to and from Dublin, and frankly if the boss is paying I wouldn't touch them with the proverbial barge pole.

Incidentally, in English we spell the word "centre" - the other spelling is American (another language similar to, but different from my mother tongue!!)

[jabird]

AtNotts,

Only a desperate business traveller would use FR ahead of LH, KL, LX to get to BUD. I used them twice (on business), to and from Dublin, and frankly if the boss is paying I wouldn't touch them with the proverbial barge pole.

I beg to differ. To BUD, the FR route is DIRECT - that is a big advantage, whatever you think of the airline. Some pax can fit their trips around these schedules, was exactly the same when they did the BLQ route a while ago. You then have various options of getting home, without purchasing a one-way legacy ticket (£££) - a) fly back to London (or LPL / MAN...), b) continue overland to another city and fly back from there - in the case of BLQ, PSA or MXP, for BUD I'd look at BTS, c) add in a day's sightseeing and go back to BHX with FR.

So I'm with JohhnyF - most pax will prob be leisure, but not everyone's business trip follows the same rush for out and back same day that would take the connections you suggest. And there is also the half-way-house of educational and historical trips, which I would expect to generate a better yield than another bucket and spade route, where price is the key driver.

[chinapattern]

Just noticed this picture;

http://4.bp.********.com/-5FSNTaECiYw/Tx1GjXeXVsI/AAAAAAAAcJQ/Ls34A0gEvKk/s1600/N253CM_BHX_2012.01.21.jpg

I thought Air France had moved ops to what was the old Terminal 2 with FR and Flybe. Are they now back to the old Terminal 1 or is it just a case of now the airport is all one terminal they park where the stands are available?

EDIT: Link doesn't appear to be working; go to the BHX photo blog and scroll down to the 21st Jan and look at the first picture.

[revo]

Yes Air France moved back to the old T1 in March 2011

Revo

[j636]

Ryanair Adds 30 Extra Cheltenham Flights For March 2012 (http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryanair-adds-30-extra-cheltenham-flights-for-march-2012)

thats seems a lot more that last year?

[pabely]

Well they have alot of planes sitting around doing nothing...:yuk:

[OltonPete]

j636

I have not got my diary to hand but seems similar from memory if it is 30 sectors in other words 15 round trips.

I have found 14 round trips quite easy in the booking engine.

All aircraft at present are shown as Dublin based and although last year
they used a couple BHX based units they never used any of the parked
ones it was always carried out by the three active aircraft (other than to
do base swaps).

Aer Lingus are showing just one extra flight on the Monday in their booking engine and of course the Shannon & Cork re-timed on the Thursday and Friday to give the punters a chance to get back to BHX after the last race.

Pete

[OltonPete]

Budapest slips into the Wednesday Tenerife slot and Saturday Malaga slot.

Malaga was double daily on Saturday in 2011 but the morning flight has gone but there are Malaga based aircraft visiting in high summer.

These are on a Tuesday in July at 09.50 in 10.15 out and in August Friday 08.25 in 08.50 out from 10/08/2012 at present.

Gaps in the schedule remain on a Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday lunch/afternoon, Thursdays 19.20 onwards and Saturday 19.05 onwards.

Last year Tuesday and Thursday lunch/afternoon saw one aircraft stay on the ground even in high-summer.

The Thursday evening slot also remained spare in 2011 and was often used as a base swap with the inbound Dublin. Saturday evening was filled by Montpellier in high-season only. The Wednesday gap did not exist as the aircraft was on its way back from TFS.

I would say that overall the number of flights are about the same . Most changes are like for like such
as the loss of the Wednesday Montpellier has been replaced by an extra Katowice. The loss of the short season Montpellier has been covered by the short season Malaga. At present the third Sunday Dublin has yet to show but this was released late last year.

Based flights should look something like this, subject to any further changes

Monday

1) 0625 ALC 1215 - 1240 LDY 1530 - 1640 MJV 2235
2) 0630 MLA 1330 - 1420 MPL 1825 - 1850 GRO 2340
3) 0645 FUE 1540 - 1620 KTW 2135
4) 0745 ACE 1645 - 1735 AGP 2355

Tuesday

1) 0625 ALC 12.15 - XXXX ??? XXXX - 1840 BTS 2350
2) 0650 GDN 1200 - 1225 BZG 1710- 1735 AGP 2355
3) 0715 TFS 1715 - 1800 MJV 0001
4) 0800 PMI 1335 - 1500 IBZ 2105

Wednesday

1) 0630 REU 1125 - 1150 GRO 1640 - 1745 RZE 2335
2) 0710 LPA 1645 - 17.35 AGP 2355
3) 0730 KUN 1335 - 1405 LDY 1655 - 1735 KTW 2250
4) 0730 BUD 1330 - XXXX ??? XXXX - 1805 PMI 2340

Thursday

1) 0635 ALC 1225 - 1325 TRS 1820 - 1845 BZG 2330
2) 0635 PMI 1210 - 1310 MJV 18.55 - XXXX ??? xxxx
3) 0655 TFS 1645 - 1735 AGP 2355
4) 0735 IBZ 1330 - XXXX ??? XXXX - 1840 BTS 2350

Friday

1) 0625 ALC 1215 - 1240 LDY 1530 - 1635 MLA 2345
2) 0630 REU 1125 - 1215 KTW 1730 - 1820 GRO 2310
3) 0745 ACE 1645 - 1755 MPL 2200
4) 0800 FUE 1655 - 1735 AGP 2355

Saturday

1) 0630 MJV 1215 - 1305 PMI 1840 - XXXX ??? XXXX
2) 0650 GDN 1200 - 1225 BZG 1710 - 1735 AGP 2355
3) 0645 TFS 1645 - 1805 ALC 2355
4) 0730 BUD 13.30 - 1540 DUB 18.15 - 18.40 BTS 2350

Sunday

1) 0640 RZE 1240 - 1325 TRS 1820 - 1845 REU 2340
2) 0645 KUN 1250 - 1340 ALC 1925 - 1950 LDY 2240
3) 0710 LPA 1645 - 1735 AGP 2355
4) 0820 PMI 1335 - 1500 IBZ 2240

Away based aircraft - departure times from BHX

Monday

Dublin 0755, 1630 & 2200

Tuesday

Dublin 0755, 1430 & 2200
Faro 1215
Malaga 1015 (July only)

Wednesday

Dublin 0755, 16.30 & 2200
Arrecife 1215
Alicante 1250

Thursday

Dublin 0755, 1430 & 2200
Faro 1215

Friday

Dublin 0755, 1630 & 2200
Malaga 0850 (10/08 - 31/8)

Saturday

Dublin 0755 & 2200
Faro 1920

Sunday

Dublin 0815 & 2200
Girona 1955

Pete

[darren1]

I heard a rumour a few times BHX-PUY will be operated twice weekly in high season.

[lfc84]

What's the flybe lounge like and what sort of food will they have about 7am ?

[Philflies]

Does anyone know what large-ish aircraft took off about 08:20 this morning, turned right and routed overhead Cov ? I was on the M6 so couldn't get a good look but it had really smokey jet pipes (not a technical term). It just caught my eye that's all.

Sorry if it's a bit of a spotters question! Just curious.

Phil

[Cloud1]

What's the flybe lounge like and what sort of food will they have about 7am

Its ok, much nicer than departures at that end of the terminal. They only serve light snacks so nothing special for breakfast - muffins, biscuits, crisps, dried fruit I think.

[BHX5DME]

The smoky departure was an An12.

Details of all movements at the BHX Movements website

[crewmeal]

I've just seen the one and only Simon Calder interviewed on BBC's Breakfast programmes about LHR's plans for the Olympics. This includes setting up of a special terminal for the competitors etc etc. They even have plans to organise the baggage collection the night before departure. My question is what does BHX plan to do (if anything)?

[ATNotts]

Crewmeal

The olympics are a London event (forget the spin - it's not a British event).

Sure a few early round footy games will probably find their way outside the southeast, but all the action is in Stratford E15, so unless the SE England airports get really overloaded, I just can't see BHX having to put in any special arrangements / facilities.

Hopefully, someone better informed than I will be able to be more positive!

[radar707]

SE airports are full, BHX will be used for overflow parking, expect to see lots of shiny biz jets parked on the Elmdon

[sam1993]

Taken from flyintobhx.co.uk

Birmingham Airport has announced that it will be the first airport
outside of the capital, to host a London 2012 Olympic Games
"welcome spectacular" to give athletes and fans flying into the
region a special Midlands welcome
.
On approach to the airport, passengers will see the five giant
Olympic Rings on the airport’s new Air Traffic Control tower,
which can also be seen from the main road into Birmingham
.
The Airport will also feature the London 2012 pictograms
along the taxiway, and will use London 2012 branding to
cover its HQ building, "Diamond House", opposite the terminal
.
Seb Coe, LOCOG Chair, said: "The Olympic Rings are an iconic
symbol, inspiring athletes and uniting people around the world.
To athletes they represent the culmination of thousands of
hours of training and reaching the highest level in sport. To
visitors travelling from around the world and arriving in
Birmingham they will excite and inspire them about the
Olympic Games taking place in the UK"
.
Paul Kehoe, Birmingham Airport’s CEO said, "Birmingham is the
UK’s second city, in the centre of the country, and is just over
an hour from London. With both the American and Jamaican track
and field teams training in Birmingham prior to the games, plus
the City of Coventry Stadium hosting a number of football games,
the region will play a major part in this amazing occasion"
.
Birmingham Airport plans to have the Olympic Rings in place
by 26 March 2012 to coincide with the completion of the first
phase of the construction of new Air Traffic Control tower
which is planned to be completed in 2013

[jabird]

plus
the City of Coventry Stadium hosting a number of football games

AKA the Ricoh Arena, branding removed to be replaced with Olympics branding and sponsorship!

[ATNotts]

Radar707
expect to see lots of shiny biz jets parked on the Elmdon

Where will they park all those not so shiny, but infinately more interesting AN-12s then? If they got shunted out to CVT or EMA I can't see the cargo handling agents being too happy - nor the motor industry clients!

[LGS6753]

Will the motor industry be active in July/August?

[ATNotts]

LGS6753

Good point! - I suppose that the 2 week summer shutdown may be timed to coincide with the Olympics, but I can't imagine it would be any more than a coincidence if it does!

[LGS6753]

Motor Industry shut-down used to be end-July/early August. So it will probably coincide with the tiddlywinks competition in London.
I can't imagine biz-jet owners parking their aircraft at Brum when there are other places nearer London with parking that are likely to be cheaper - Cranfield, Oxford, Southend, Manston, Cambridge, etc.

[Buster the Bear]

North Weald, Sywell, Duxford, Dunsfold and Blackbushe are all potentially involved.

[Guest 112233]

I suspect that BHX is too far away for Exec visitors but there may just be a few displaced flights if the weather is thundery or wet.

I suspect that say anything bigger (guess work) than say a Citation operator; is looking at Biggen Hill, Farnborough,Cambridge, Oxford, Southend or more likely Luton with its FBO's, CAT III ILS and proximity to London, the metropliis is a much bigger bet.

I bet STN/LUT will be very choc-a-bloc for the games. Brum/COV although along the right roads literally, will be distant bystanders to hosting traffic for the London Olympics.

Re 707: Perhaps Radar707 is correct - obviously I'm not privy to the schedules but I bet some of the Executive travel is already planned (Six months to go) - but 100 Miles + London navigated by road is a long way for an executive to travel, even in a Limo.

CAT III.

[chaps2011]

Perhaps it`s not going to be as busy as people think
BBC News - London 2012: Thousands of hotel nights made available (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16780962)
I booked rooms in Luton at normal hotel tariff over the opening days also



Ian B

[radar707]

You misunderstand me, the punters will be dropped off at Luton, Stansted etc and the aircraft then ferried up to Brum for parking.

[Guest 112233]

Yes - Thanks for the clarification. I should have checked before posting. The RYR units should be active by then. I suppose that it might be possible to marshal Exec Aircraft in bulk onto remote stands sujject to Airport Authority & CAA aproval. [NB not the old side. those freighters etc].-

I'm old enough to remember BEA Tridents lined up along the old 06/24 after divertions in the 70's

As I have said earlier - I'm no expert - I bet a more informed source will correct me.

It may depend on customer demand vis cost of implimentation who knows.

Apologies CAT III

[Edit; Just thinking - You can imagine the senario: "Our client wants his GV back urgently". response "Sorry its on temp plot 13 - Come back in two weeks" - This headache would apply anywhere? ]

[BRUpax]

Just for info:

SN will indeed continue with 5 rotations on weekdays. Two of these are to be operated by the Austrian Arrows DHC-8 and is cunningly hidden in the first (default) flight option page unless one ticks the "flights operated by partner airlines" box.

[Burpbot]

Q4 yes, But Austrian Arrows NO ;)

[Cloud1]

Forget Austrian Arrows, think a little closer to home....

[OltonPete]

Cloud1

The Q400 has operated every Sunday for quite a while on SN2045 and
during holiday periods, also the SN2039/40 so it is not a surprise that there
are two scheduled every weekday this summer but are you saying that it
is changing to flybe? GDS still shows Tyrolean.

If flybe were to take some of the services I would have expected the
BHX night-stop to be the first to eliminate the hotel costs.

Swiss

About mid April just after Easter it seems to settle down to 2 x RJ100's
and just the morning flight is now the F100. Although it seems to be
changing a lot recently especially with UK services, Manchester for
a start showing mainly 319's rather 320's for the summer.

Pete

[Monty Gordo]

Olympic Games

Sam1993

With both the United States and the Jamaican teams training in Birmingham prior to the games is it to be assumed that both of these teams will fly direct into BHX? Thereafter, and particularly with the vast US team there would of necessity then be other flights containing equipment, families, personnel etc. There could be some interesting movements....

OP

Have you crystal ball-gazed at what impact the expanded route structure (Baby, LH, Mon etc) this year from BHX might have on annual pax numbers. Might we get back to a pre-2010 level?

[ticketondeparture]

On the subject of aircraft type changes, Britair by Air France will continue to operate into BHX after the ending of the Lyon route with CRJs on some of the CDG rotations.

This begins towards the end of March.

[OltonPete]

Monty Gordo

I have not crunched any numbers like I used to do in the past but using the known increases in the based aircraft of two x ZB A320's and one x Baby 737 based on load factors of 80% and 75% respectively then it should fall short of 2009 (9.1 Million) but well above 2010 and 2011 at about 8.95 - 9 Million.

Also a lot will depend on winter 2012 and what further IT's are consolidated this summer. It appears Aer Lingus regional will be increasing as well as TK of course with Lyon the only major loss at present 2500-3500 pax per month.

ticketondeparture

Yes unfortunately they will be using the CRJ1000 on the AF1564/5 in place of the A318, which is often upgraded to the A320. Certainly disappointing that this flight was chosen as the downgrade even if it is only a handful of seats.

I suppose with the latest AF financials a loss of less than 50 seats a day is small and it could have been worse. At least the RJ85's are a distant memory.

Pete

[nigel osborne]

Monty Gordo re Olympics.

Would certainly be good to see flights direct from the States and Jamaica.

However both countries have sent athletic teams before to a full programme of events at Birminghams Alexander stadium and there were no flights then.:{

They arrived on numerous sched flights into LHR and BHX .

I do fear the Olmpics could be another damp squib for BHX like Rotary International was..really hoping Im wrong:uhoh:

Nigel

[ATNotts]

Radar707

I thought that one of the reasons London got the olympics was it's "green credentials".

How green is it to fly Mr & Mrs Nob / Celeb to LTN, the get the aircraft back in the air to park at BHX.

For heavens sake, given the third world infrastructure that is the UK motorway system, surely the assembled ranks of nobs and celebs would be better served taking a first class train ticket from BHX to Stratford, rather than a limo from Luton! Given they can afford the private aircraft, even at UK fares levels, a first class train ticket should just about be affordable!!!

If all BHX is going to be is a glorified car park for Citations etc, then why bother with those pesky rings, that I assume LOCOG aren't paying for to be stuck on the new tower.

[Jonnyf]

Press release today from the airport about daily flights to Istanbul and also seems they have made some investment in significant advertisement around the arrivals hall area

[sam1993]

Looks like there is a major reduction in flights for Olympic Holidays this summer with only 5 weekly departures currently being offered, down from 13 last summer!! Perhaps the dreadful operation by Sky Wings last summer has put people off?

[OltonPete]

sam1993

The May/June schedule is not too dissimilar to 2011 as Sky Wings only operated seven flights but it is the July/August schedule that has been chopped.

I can only find the Sunday evening Zante starting unless I have missed any.

I bet they wished they had gone with Czech Travel Service last summer, which briefly appeared in their 2011 online brochure.


Pete

[cloudy1]

I would imagine that dreadful perfomance by Sky Wings has put hundreds if not more people off with travelling with Olympic Holidays! Hurrendous delays and even poorer information between both companies!!! I would imagine Olympic wish they had never fallen out of bed with Monarch who supplied them with reliable flights!!! I have heard this saying on here before and if it was a consumer price thing that led Olympic to use Sky Wings last year its quite sad - "People know the cost of everything, and the "Value" of nothing!!!..............and its very true!!!

[rn750]

A bit on common sense..
Chamber calls for investment in Birmingham Airport instead of 'Boris Island' - Latest Business News - Business News - Business - Birmingham Post (http://www.birminghampost.net/birmingham-business/birmingham-business-news/businesslatest/2012/01/27/chamber-calls-for-investment-in-birmingham-airport-instead-of-boris-island-65233-30212167/)

The amount of money to create a new airport buys and awful lot of Marketing..

But God forbid money is spent outside the South East..

Adie

[OltonPete]

Looks as if EI Regional is nothing but good news for BHX.

Shannon is still only showing daily but Cork has trumped it by going
three daily on Monday, Wednesday and Friday from 2/5/2012.

Revised times allowing both Irish and now Midlander's to do a days business
if they so wish.

BHX times 08.15/08.45, 12.30/13.00 and 20.45/21.15

Apparently not in the timetable yet but bookable.

Pete

[bread&water]

Hi OP

could you guesstimate the % of Dec Pax carried by Ryanair ?
Thanks
B&W

[Jonnyf]

So for 2012 continued

Aer Lingus - Dublin one more rotation per week to 20 and Cork 3 more rotations to 17
Ryanair adding Budapest at 2 times weekly
Flybe adding Waterford, 1 Daily

Route development for 2012 looking a lot better then that for 2011

[Hotel Tango]

Burpbot

The Q400 flights which will operate SN2039/2040 and SN2045/2046 will definitely be operated by Austrian Arrows (Tyrolean if you want to be pedantic) ;)

[potash]

Pete
Have Monarch pulled there flights from mid April and all of May not showing on there site.

[Daza]

BHX-FUE is bookable again from 30th May again Wednesday and Saturday. Strange that they should pause service for a few weeks :rolleyes:

[Burpbot]

Hotel Tango, if you say so! Hope you like the taste of hat ;)

[Cloud1]

Well you have 2 people telling you otherwise but as Burtbop says......

[Hotel Tango]

Guys, I'm not picking a fight here. If you don't believe me, then go ahead and commence a booking with Brussels Airlines on a weekday in May. Select flights by partner airlines then click on the flight number. The pop up box with the flight details clearly states "operated by Tyrolean Airways". That's my source. If you know better than Brussels Airlines why not share your source?

[OltonPete]

potash & Daza

I could say that there have been some Monarch cutbacks but as I have never checked the May schedule in the first place I can't be sure. However it is not to condense the schedule into 5 aircraft or anything like that,as the aircraft seem to sit on the ground at certain times until late May and it affects both FUE flights, one TFS (now 5), one ACE (now 4) and one LPA (now 2).

Six based aircraft in May, five in April with some away based aircraft on certain days in April.

Bodrum, Heraklion and Dubrovinik don't start until May so six aircraft not needed until then.

The schedule still looks mighty impressive compared to previous years.

Hotel Tango

Please don't take offence at Cloud1 & Burpots light teasing, if you check there older posts they have connections to flybe and obviously have some inside information which is not in the public domain.

It will be interesting to see how they fit BRU into their schedules. Still waiting to see if the IOM changes to an BHX based aircraft.

Pete

[potash]

Pete
We have a flight booked to fly out of Bhx to Fue on sat 28 April no email yet to say its cancelled.

[OltonPete]

Potash

Not very good really, it is clearly not bookable and unless it is full it certainly doesn't look like it is operating.

I would contact them asap

Monarch (http://www.monarch.co.uk/contact-us/flights)

Pete

[Hotel Tango]

Hmm, must be very hush-hush then. If it is going to be Flybe I can only guess (looking at the published dep & arr times that it will be a lease arrangement of some sort with the a/c based in Brussels - as is the case at present with Tyrolean.

I do hope that it won't be Flybe. I gave up flying with them a few years back as I became less and less impressed with them (flying from DUS).

I note that the fares charged on the Dash 8 sectors are often substantially higher than the pure SN flights. Time will tell.

[Burpbot]

Im not saying who it is, just saying if you read around SN are returning the Arrows Q4. Many operators of Q4 in the Eurozone ;)

[OltonPete]

bread&water

Sorry for the delay, too much going on!!!

Do you mean FR's overall December load factor from BHX or Ryanair's share of BHX's December pax?

As you say guestimate as there are too many shared services to get an accurate figure but I would say around 75-77% load factor. Definitely not
a great month load factor wise but almost certainly higher fares than 2010.

I probably could work out an estimated number of Ryanair pax as a % of BHX's December figure.



Pete

[jetsgo]

LH to start HAM 2 x daily using EW CRJ 900

Starts 2 may dep BHX at 0815 and 1550 I think.

Now bookable on lufthansa.com
Jetsgo

[Daza]

Great news for Birmingham, Berlin commences June and Hamburg returns in May. I do fear that Flybe may not survive on BHX-HAM.

[bread&water]

OP - it was the RYR pax as a % of all pax carried I was trying to guesstimate - B&W

[getonittt]

Great news for Birmingham, Berlin commences June and Hamburg returns in May. I do fear that Flybe may not survive on BHX-HAM

Why is it that whenever Flybe have competition they are seen as the underdogs? Not saying it's not true or otherwise , maybe their brand is not strong outside of the UK , or maybe the Q400's are not to most peoples liking . I guess we will wait and see what happens to the BE7109/10 after 02 may.

[OltonPete]

It looks as it four aircraft to be used up one from this winter.

Rome, Venice and Milan retained but cut-backs on the Canaries.

The schedule in general is how winter 2011/12 should finish but
well down on the November 2011 schedule if you take the city
routes out. Plenty of gaps for new routes other than Sunday.

Monday

AGP then ALC
LPA
MXP
TFS

Tuesday

FCO
VCE
TFS

Wednesday

MXP
FUE
LCA
TFS

Thursday

ACE
FAO
FCO
VCE

Friday

TFS
ALC
AGP
FCO then MXP

Saturday

MXP then ALC
AGP then TFS
VCE
(GVA?)

Sunday

ALC then ACE
FAO then TFS
AGP then LCA
VCE then FCO

B&W

Okay I will take a look

Pete

[Daza]

Getonittt wrote
Why is it that whenever Flybe have competition they are seen as the underdogs? Not saying it's not true or otherwise , maybe their brand is not strong outside of the UK , or maybe the Q400's are not to most peoples liking . I guess we will wait and see what happens to the BE7109/10 after 02 may.

You sort of partly answered your own question, I would add to that the flight times to Hamburg are of very little use to business fliers and the fact that the flight only operates on four or five days a week for months in Winter.
I hope that Flybe do continue the route and maybe Lufthansa's presence will raise Birmingham's profile and increase passenger numbers on the route generally as new LH AND EZY services did at MAN. I'm sure OltonPete will confirm BE have been haemorrhaging passengers on this route for quite sometime.:} As you say only time will tell.
Daza

[crewmeal]

I would add to that the flight times to Hamburg are of very little use to business fliers and the fact that the flight only operates on four or five days a week for months in Winter.

Flybe's business model is non existent as far as I'm concerned. A friend of mine was charged £445 to fly to Dundee and back last year and although he was on business his company paid up. He was still charged for refreshments onboard and the timings were unsuitable for him to use the route more than once. Their 'one class fits all' for business travellers will never work. Basically they are a low cost carrier trying to screw the public for as much as possible and offer very little in return. Their Q400's are unreliable. Every other week you seem to read about some drama they had in the press. However their operation is more suited flying pensioners from SOU BOH, NWI BLK etc to the Channel Islands and leave the bigger airports to the bigger carriers to provide a more reliable service.

[GAXLN]

Crewmeal,

I am puzzled by your comments about your mate who was charged for refreshments on board his Birmingham-Dundee flight as this sector is operated by Loganair who offer "Complimentary onboard service on flights over 45 mins". Are you sure of your facts? Flybe are an essential airline providing domestic services which otherwise would be expensive or lengthy by road or rail. I don't see anyone else rushing to provide the services that they and their franchise partners do. In a market where the Government's policy on Air Passenger Duty is killing domestic business they are trying to provide a decent service and should be supported for what they do for the British economy and not dismissed as only suitable for carrying pensioners around. When you reach pensionable age I hope they are still around.

[crewmeal]

GALXN - I suppose the reason I'm so negative about Flybe is based on personal experience. Two flights to Milan on a Q400 both flights delayed because of technical reasons, one flight to Dusseldorf cancelled and rerouted. A further incident regarding ticketing and fares and unresolved.

I checked with my colleague about charges and he said he was charged around £2.

In a market where the Government's policy on Air Passenger Duty is killing domestic business

Agreed and it will go up on April 1st and therefore more domestic services will no doubt dwindle.

[Monty Gordo]

It has already started..... Man and LHR are bemoaning the fact that their aiports cannot cope with a snow shower.

But down in the deepest of the Marches, what was it like in BHX, did it lose any flights. Did it gain any flights?

Here, 2cms, absolute chaos....

[nigel osborne]

Monty Gordo re BHX sno clo

The snow did get heavier late evening..however as always with BHX I cannot understand why they seem to have no plan.

At EMA/MAN and others that also had the snow, they closed but gave an estimate of time likely to open and seemed to hit that time bang on.

However at BHX..its now stopped snowing an hour ago and raining yet still no one seems to have a clue what time it will open.:ooh:

48 hrs warning of this snow and still a shambles:ugh:

Nigel

[revo]

As I understand it they waited to start clearing it until the snow had fully stopped, so this would add a few hours after it stopped

Revo

[ATNotts]

Nigel

48 hrs warning of this snow and still a shambles

This snow was forecast almost a week ago, and whilst LHR quite rightly gets the brickbats from the (London) media the performance at all the major UK airports, in the face a few centimetres of snow is lamentable.

[nigel osborne]

REVO

Was 12 hours before it reopened at 6am.

Lots of praise for all the guys who spent all night working really hard to clear it.:ok:

However operationally why it took so long when other airports with more snow reopened in a quarter of the time, I am at a loss ?

Nigel

[FlyboyUK]

In the last 8 years of flying out of BHX, this always happens, when they shut they shut for at least 12 hours when other airports seem to manage to open much quicker. I appreciate it's hard work for all involved, by why does BHX seem to get it so wrong every time?

Just very glad we got back in last night about 15 mins before it closed.

[OltonPete]

B&W

Estimated Ryanair pax at BHX in December 2011 67142, which is 13% of the
BHX monthly passenger figure. At a guess I would probably say it was nearer 70000 as I believe they carry more than Aer Lingus on the Dublin but possibly less of a % than Monarch on their shared routes.

Load Factor estimated at 71% although 8 of the 17 routes operated were
shared with other airlines, which means that this is only an estimate but I would say no more than 75%.

I noted 498 FR movements in December 2011 which was 9% of all BHX ATM's and this was slightly up on 2010 where the CAA punctuality stats indicates 464 Ryanair movements (weather cancellations?) on 5390 total movements.

Ryanair published 4.8 million passengers for December 2011 making BHX a very small cog in their network.

Pete

[groundhogbhx]

To be fair to the poor blokes doing the clearing they did the best they could. The runway and taxiways were de-iced before the snow started and carried on. There was a short closure to do the runway full length around 1700. The runway was closed at 1727 to be swept and the job was just about done as the heavy snow hit. Re-cover times (cleared tarmac to white) was 3 minutes around this time and got down to about 1 minute before it stopped. I left just before 0200 and they were still finishing off the taxiways, but as the stands were still covered and almost impossible to move equipment over safely they delayed opening 'til 6. Very sensible decision, but obviously a difficult one to take. I wouldn't want to take responsibility for an aircraft landing safely only to have an accident sliding on a snow covered stand.

[Daza]

In the Flybe thread Boing7117 wrote
Brussels apparently.

Wet leasing of between 2 and 8 (I've heard 8 on several occasions!) Q400 operating out of BRU, initially for the Summer period but then ramping up to operate for the next couple of years.

Routes include Turin, Toulouse and Milan.

Of course, this is just a rumour.


Maybe Flybe Dash 8s will be operating BHX-BRU after all? :}

[MaxedOutMan]

Hopefully the right forum to ask.....any idea what happened to this morning's scheduled 0900hrs TOM382 to Boa Vista? BHX website states 'Proceed to coaches at front of terminal'.

I only ask as I have a friend stuck in Cape Verde who was advised her return TOM383 flight has been cancelled due to an 'ash cloud' and she needs to get back asap due to a family member being taken seriously ill.

[nigel osborne]

groundhog,

Yes fully support all the staff working as hard as they can to clear the airport.I know some had to put in extra hours to help out.:ok:

However this is the third time in 18 months that BHX was closed for 12 hours or more with snow.

It doesn't explain why other airports in the UK that day which had more snow were open in a quarter of the time.Is it as I expect, they have four times the number of staff on perhaps.

EMA,MAN,LTN,STN were all operational after heavy snow within a few hours:confused:

Nigel

[Cazza_fly]

Hopefully the right forum to ask.....any idea what happened to this morning's scheduled 0900hrs TOM382 to Boa Vista? BHX website states 'Proceed to coaches at front of terminal'.

I only ask as I have a friend stuck in Cape Verde who was advised her return TOM383 flight has been cancelled due to an 'ash cloud' and she needs to get back asap due to a family member being taken seriously ill.

It's more of a 'dust cloud' causing visibility issues to all airlines operating to the Cape Verde Islands.

More information here http://bit.ly/tEz7Vy (http://bit.ly/tEz7Vy) .

[Cazza_fly]

bmibaby increase BHX-NOC service from 4x to 6x weekly from April.

''The extra flights will provide an additional capacity of 592 seats per week, and bmibaby expect to carry up to 55,000 customers on the services throughout the summer''

bmibaby announces extra flights to Knock | 2012 | bmibaby travel news (http://t.co/0Dk7ySSu)

[bread&water]

OP - many thanks - great

[MaxedOutMan]

Cazza_fly, many many thanks for your reply and the link.

Very helpful. Unfortunately the detailed info as per the link was not passed on to the pax so at least they now have some idea of what's going on.

[dionysius]

Interesting that BMI Baby are to increase the BHX/NOC service as there is a very strong rumour that EI regional will operate BHX/NOC during the summer.

At present EI are running an advert on local radio stating they operate "80 flights a week BHX to Ireland", so there must be some additional routes planned for the summer, if so, yet more good news for BHX. :ok:

[GayFriendly]

I would think that apart from maybe high summer, that an ATR is far better suited for the loads on this route than a 737. One thing for sure, its overkill if both WW and EI operate, especially as FR are daily from EMA aswell.....

80 flights a week by EI, that's some increase in schedule - off the top of my head, there are 3 daily DUB, 2 daily ORK and 1 daily SNN in summer 2012 -which makes 42 flights a week outbound from BHX. Maybe they mean 80 return flights a week? If so there is no room for NOC on that calculation, or perhaps they are planning a 4 times daily service there ;)

I can't think of any other Irish destinations apart from Galway, Kerry and Sligo, none of which I think would be hugely viable as year round ops (perhaps Kerry at a push?)

[iwak]

Noc/bhx

The route doesn't do too bad at all looking at the last few months caa stats show late 60s to 70 % load factor , so not too bad for the winter

[chinapattern]

Can anyone with a good memory recall what routes BA/BA Connect/Maersk operated from BHX over the years? If memory serves me correct I recall at least the following; Aberdeen, Athens, Bareclona, Belfast, Berlin, Copenhagen, Dublin, Dusseldorf, Edinburgh, Frankfurt, Geneva, Glasgow, Inverness, Madrid, Malaga, Milan, Munich, New York, Paris, Rome, Toronto, Stockholm, Stuttgart and Zurich.
Could easily be wrong on a few though and I can't remember if Helsinki, Lisbon and Vienna were ever served at some point? Any ideas?

[Guest 112233]

Re those routes from memory; Maersk - they operated to Oslo,Turin, Southampton and Athens too. - Sad listing but that's business I suppose.


CAT III

[EGBE0523]

I recall that BHX-SOU was originally operated by a HS.748 from BA's Highland Division as I was on the inaugaral flight.

BHX-CPH-STO I'm pretty sure was Maersk and when I was using it came back ST0-ARN direct on a 1-11.

BHX-LIN was I think Birmingham European and when I flew it was a Saab 340.

BHX-ZRH was again Birmingham European or could have been Birmingham Executive on a Jetstream 31 and I think some flights called in at GVA.

Going back a long time I seem to recall BOAC operating a VC10 BHX-JFK but it may have gone via MAN or PIK. More recently I think BA had a go with a767/757? BHX-JFK-YYZ or could have been the other way around.

For more odd routings AI ran a 707 on BHX-SV0-ATQ-BOM-DEL and BD ran a Viscount EMA-BHX-BRU-FRA.

[RealFish]

I used a few BA / Maersk franchised flights between 1999 and 2002 including.

CPH a few times on 737s ( I seem to recall frequency grew to 5/6 flights per day immediately before things went belly up - am I correct? OP will know)

Milan LINate - also 737

Nice (NCE) was missing from that list, Chinapattern, which on the flight I was on, was operated by a nearly brand new CRJ-700 (G-MRSI), which eventually operated with Duo.

Edited to say that one thing stood out on those and the other Maersk services I used from BHX - the crew, both on board and on the ground were excellent - customer service was far superior to that provided by mainline BA colleagues at LHR.

[ssflyer]

"one thing stood out on those and the other Maersk services I used from BHX - the crew, both on board and on the ground were excellent - customer service was far superior to that provided by mainline BA colleagues at LHr "

Couldn't agree more, without being sexist the lady FA's of a certain age were absolutely super,most having been BA longhaul in a previous life. Drinks trolley was wonderful-a couple of G&T,s two mini bottles of wine and a decent snack on the way to BCA- perhaps that is where the profits went. And in the earlier days the BAC1-11's really did crackle,especially taking off on the short cross runway.

[crewmeal]

Thanks guys. I was one of the Cabin Crew with Maersk. We used to fly daily to CPH, MXP, STR, ARL, NCL, ORK, LYS, TXL, GVA, FCO We often did work for BA Regional using a fleet of 737s CRJ's 200 & 700. We used to fly Spanish charters on summer weekends and various ski flights during the winter. When it became DUO there were a couple of other routes but I got out before then as the writing was on the wall after 9/11.

Yes we were a franchise of BA and it worked well except BA didn't help too much with their marketing trying to re-route passengers to the above destinations via their hubs. We were proud of the service we offered and even the product in those days.

[getonittt]

Are you sure about MXP? i think it was still LIN at that time . AMS was served too .

[crewmeal]

It started as LIN but Italian politics changed all that and most schedules ended up in MXP. Sorry forgot about AMS which was served around 3 times a day.

[OltonPete]

Here are the last month's figures April 2004 with 2003 in brackets (Maersk)

Vienna - 1746 pax at 30 per flight 59% (2343)

Copenhagen - 10625 (11336) - 49 pax (90 Duo & 126 SAS)

Helsinki - 1939 (nil) - avg 21 but 45 duo and 46 City Airline split with GOT

Lyon - 3758 (3896) - 35 per flight 70%

Nice - 311 (1939) - 17 per flight

Berlin TXL 1886 (3062) - 36 per flight 73%

Cologne - 1985 - 25 per flight 50%

Stuttgart 6571 (4194) - 29 per flight (86 Duo, 138 BA) 59%

Stockholm 2388 (2439) - 27 per flight 53%

Oslo 471 (nil) - 12 pax per flight (via EDI?)

Geneva - 3428 (8670) - 31 pax per flight - 62%

Zurich and Milan shown on wiki but ZRH was Swiss by April and Milan was BA

CAA used for passengers and number of rotations.

Helsinki was quite low but distorted by the split with City Airline GOT and I believe averaged over 30.

Some good and some bad in terms of bums on seats.

Will Lyon remain unserved as it has done okay for load factors, Helsinki and Stockholm you would hope would be considered by flybe with their Nordic connections although you can understand why most would be shy of Oslo.

Never flew Duo but did a couple of Maersk Amsterdam's on the amazing 1-11
and crew were great but to be fair I can't remember a single bad mainline or BACON flight from BHX



Pete

[crewmeal]

Thanks OP for those interesting figures. Those figures would have improved a lot if BA had marketed the routes properly. The endless times we had passengers who said they didn't realise BA operated 'this' route, Travel agents didn't even know of the existence of such routes Maersk operated. Don't forget in those days people were still relying on agents for their bookings and weren't using the internet unlike today. There were no airline sites such as flyertalk trip advisor for comparisons.

The relationship got so bad during 1999/2000 that there was talk of breaking away from BA and setting up alone as a lowcost carrier. The Danes really wanted a hold in BHX. However 9/11 killed everything off and of course BA went and shafted BMed. That too was an excellent operation.

[simoncorbett]

Does anyone know what the plan is for the old international building that was built in '60's ?
Ive noticed it has been empty now for more than a year and recently some of the internal walls have been knocked thru

thanks
Simon

[rn750]

This relates to the problem at the moment at LHR.

'National' carrier only serves one Airport in the South East.
Everyone has to go to one airport to get anywhere.

Result: 1 Overcrowded and overutilised airport in the SE and the rest of the country with spare slots..
Daft..

:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Daza]

Maersk also opertaed Marseille with 737 in the summer months as we used it a few times as the in-laws had property there. We traveled on the inaugural flight Allo Allo's Vicki Michelle was at check-in with a Breton top and onions! Great crews with fantastic customer service.

More good news for Summer Monarch are to add three extra flights to AGP Fri/Sat/Sun late night departures from 20/7-9/9.:ok:
Daza

[Centre cities]

The plan for the old international extension from the original listed terminal is to knock it down.

Centre cities

[RealFish]

Result: 1 Overcrowded and overutilised airport in the SE and the rest of the country with spare slots


BA seem to be sqeezing every inch out of LCY with another three routes about to be announced to Angers, Quimper and Mahon. I make that almost 20 BA routes from Docklands. Unfortunately it's the overheated south-east where the money is.

[Jonnyf]

2012 expansion update

Aer Lingus - One extra rotation on sunday to Dublin and Cork increasing to 17 flights a week on ATR aircraft

Bmibaby - Re-introduce Barcelona, Lisbon and Rome and now 2 extra flights a week to Knock

Flybe - Introducing daily Waterford

Lufthansa - Adding Berlin and now a 2x Daily service to Hamburg operated by eurowing CRJ 900

Ryanair - Budapest at 2x weekly

Monarch - 2 extra aircraft introducing Dubrovnik, Heraklion, Milan, Rome, and Venice and now 3 extra weekly flights to Malaga

Turkish - Istanbul becoming Daily

[ATNotts]

rn750

You're right, BA is effectively "LA", but really, unless for political / patriotic reasons you absolutely want to fly with the "national carrier" the lack of a BA presence at BHX I really don't think has been all that detrimental.

Seems to me that Star Alliance (being Lufthansa and Swiss) offer a more than acceptable alternative through hubs at DUS, FRA , MUC and ZRH, and surely the flight and transfer at a comfortable, efficient european hub (OK so rule FRA out on that score!) is infinitely preferable than the drive to London and travel through the third world airport that is LHR!

[Jonnyf]

Monarch continuing Rome, Milan and Venice service in winter 12-13

Rome - 4 x Weekly (5 in Summer)
Milan - 4 x Weekly (Same as summer)
Venice- 4 x Weekly (Same as Summer)

[FQTLSteve]

Chinapattern, Having just read your posting I've looked at 2 old BHX Timetables, one from 31.03.96-26.10.96 and 26.10.03-27.03.04 and between the two of them the following cities are not included in your list:-

Brussels, Cologne/Bonn, Faro, Gothebourg, Hannover, Hamburg, Helsinki, Lyon, Newcastle, Nice and Oslo.

It does illustrate how many connections BHX have lost.

I have many timetables from the 1980's onwards, I'll check if there are any others, but I think most have been posted now.

[Daza]

I am a great supporter of BHX and regional air services but, there was one major problem with the route network that Maersk/Duo/BACON operated. Most were unprofitable or uncompetative due to both airlines high operating costs. This would explain why BA is no longer in the regions and Maersk UK/Duo are sadly no more. :(

The 50 seat high frequency jet service is no longer the money maker it was, due to increased fuel and duty costs and most low fares airlines operate aircraft that are too big (too many seats) to warrant daily service to what are essentially business destinations such as OSL, HEL, CGN, GVA, ARN, LYS etc.
I think that some of these services may not resume ex BHX for many years if at all.:}

There are things to look forward to at Birmingham and that there is any expansion at all next Summer is a real bonus in the present economic climate. :ok:
Daza

[GayFriendly]

Continuing the retro feel of the thread if I may there have been many other non BA/Maersk/Duo routes (some downright strange or daft!) that have graced the pages of the BHX timetable at some point or another including

Le Havre/Caen (was it Love Air?)

Rotterdam/Eindhoven (I recall this was very briefly a BA franchise?)

Augsburg - Interot

Basle - Crossair

Kirkwall (via ABZ) BA Highland Division?

Norwich

Newquay - WW and BE

Plymouth, Gatwick - Brymon

Kiev - Aerosvit (why was that route ever flown?)

Moscow - Air India!

Loganair actually as Loganair did a season BHX-GCI on an ATR, 2002 ish?

And much more recently, the more recent crop of 'fulfill our initial contract at BHX until we have to pay full landing fees' routes from FR including Biarritz, Olbia, Bologna, Billund, Torp, Stockholm, Pisa, Poitiers, Trapani, Krakow

And for long haul - Tashkent, Amritsar, Delhi, Chicago, Lahore, Karachi, Peshawar, Tehran, Philadelphia, Bishkek

Not sure if Gulf Traveller to AUH ever got off the ground? It was certainly in the BHX timetable. Those chancers FlyWho certainly never got going.......I also seem to remember Tajikstan Airlines very briefly operating to Dushanbe???? A Tristar?? Could be wrong.

As for scheduled airlines - Highland Express, Metropolitan, Uzbekistan, Aerosvit, American, Iberia, Air India, Crossair, Swissair, Alitalia, Krygystan Airlines (TU134??), Air Canada, British Midland and BMI, Czech Airlines, Interot, Newair (did Billund on an F27 in the 80's), American, US Airways, Community Express (LGW-BHX-LPL on a Jetstream I flew LGW-BHX once on their Jetstream!) Brymon, Norwegian, Sky Europe, Germanwings, HLX, Wardair.......some are still around many gone but that is why aviation is so fascinating as it changes all the while

Did Sabena ever fly their own metal into BHX, I seem to remember they always codeshared with BD on their DC9's?

I love a bit of nostalgia!

I agree with Daza, BHX routes are looking more healthy again in 2012 despite very challenging economics. It is doubtful any of the ones I have mentioned above will ever see the light of day again for all sorts of reasons. It is a pity that FR have not fulfilled early promise with route development but there could be more from ZB in the next few years as well as WW (if a new owner has deep pockets!). Personally I am disappointed that the MAD route is still a gaping hole, IB must have looked but deemed it no go from BHX for whatever reason at the moment :(

[getonittt]

And don't forget Air anglia in the late 70's who operated BHX- Humberside/Norwich & Swansea with PA31's .
(some downright strange or daft!)

The award goes to hellanic Imperial . Flight to Athens (yep, good idea give it go ) With 747-200's ( what the.....) .

IB must have looked but deemed it no go from BHX for whatever reason at the moment http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/sowee.gif

Told you before, One world doesn't DO BHX

[RealFish]

GF - of course another defunct service was to / from LHR (probably the shortest scheduled service from BHX?).

Apologies if someone has mentioned this. I'm told I'm not particularly detail conscious.

[Daza]

GayFriendly wrote,
Did Sabena ever fly their own metal into BHX?

Yes they did. My brother was at Service Air and was lead agent for SABENA during their time, just before they went bankrupt! They had that fantastic nick-name Such A Bad Experience Never Again. :E I seem to remember my brother commenting on just how many bags they lost at BRU.

The airline that operated to Eindhoven and Rotterdam was B.A.S.E. (Business Airlines Systems Eindhoven).

I remember watching Air France 727s on a Friday evening come over my parents house in Aldridge.:ok:

We went a few years running to Yugoslavia on a JAT 727 and one year on an Adria DC-9 and an Aviogenex TU134 (I think) with Yugotours. I think they were loaded as scheduled services weren't they? Does anyone remember ski flights to Nis also JAT aircraft?

Remember AB Airlines that operated 1-11s to Shannon?

I also travelled to Tangier with RAM 737-200 very late at night (or very early in the morning) with Inspirations or maybe Falcon?

Didn't Thomson do Rimini and Venice also during the Summer with 737-200s?
Birmingham has seen some destinations come and go.

Daza

[crewmeal]

It is a pity that FR have not fulfilled early promise with route development

FR will always promise something then break it if there is a sniff of competition or the route fails to come up to their expectations. How many times have we heard that when they actually do promise a new route they jump on the unemployment bandwagon by saying it will create *** new jobs?

To me the only time we saw a regular 747 service was with Wardair back in the 80's. They built up quite a big operation from BHX. I believe during their final operation you could see up to 4 747s a week operating out. What's happened that market now?

[chinapattern]

Those were the days!

I remember flying out of BHX in the late 90's, perhaps maybe 2000 and I remember that on the apron were x3 DC'10s (Monarch, Airtours, Continental), x2 767's (Britannia, American) and if I'm not mistaken an a Air Transat Tristar! And I remember the smokey Balkan Bulgaria and Krygystan Airlines (in the old Aeroflot colours) TU-154's coming in.

[FQTLSteve]

In the BAA Airport Timetable published from 25.03.90:-

T.A.S. Airways x3 weekly Bologna on a Gulfstream

Also

Daily Iberia DC9 to BCN/MAD this service ran for a few years and alternated between a daily BCN and MAD and various combinations of x3 weekly BCN x4 weekly MAD etc.

JAT x2 weekly 727 to Dubrovnik & x2 weekly 727 Pula

Brittania 737/767 x3 weekly Palma & x2 weekly 737 Ibiza

In another BAA guide effective 29.10.96 :-

American AA23 to Chicago continuing to Detroit daily

Flights 5E502/504 J31 x2 Dailyx67 to Eindhoven and Rotterdam
Flights 5V102/106 SH6 x2 Dailyx67 to Liverpool

Jersey European BHD flight one daily extended to/from Londonderry/Derry

[MAN777]

BHX has pride of place in my passenger flying log book as its where me (aged 12) and 30 of my classmates flew from for a 1 week school trip to Paris.

BEA trident 1E G-AVYE to Paris Orly was the very first aircraft I flew on and I remember clearly being sat on the rear starboard side looking directly into the engine intake.

Also as my family are spread between UK and Canada we were regular VFR customers but as the previous poster has stated its quite rare to make the journey these days as our older members have passed away and skype is so easy to use for the younger family members.

Cost is also an issue, I am off to Toronto tomorrow for work, return airfare via Philadelphia from MAN £1300 !!!!!! AND THAT WAS THE CHEAPEST ECONOMY.

Come back Wardair and Laker skytrain !!

[nigel osborne]

MAN 777

Quite amazing, Birmingham Airport flew 4 times more people to Canada over 20 years ago than we do now..Wardair 747s, Air Canada Tristars/747s/767s, Worldways Tristars..where did it all go wrong !!:hmm:

Nigel

[OltonPete]

MAN777

Trident - damn never got to fly in one but my first flight was a Dan Air Comet 4c
alas not from BHX.

Nothing wrong with yields on MAN-PHL if that is what they can charge :eek:

Mentioning Canada brings nicely on to Crewmeal's Wardair question and Air Canada's ill-fated Tristar service which seemed a fantastic coup at the time but eventually (partly due to other circumstances) brought a massive downfall on BHX-Canada routes. I agree where did that market go, just a weekly Transat A333.

GF - Gulf Traveller never operated to BHX not sure if they ever operated anywhere

KIEV - Aimed at onward connections to Delhi I believe

Le Harve - short-lived but some really good loads so I don't if it was supported by a business

Basle - Peugeot workers supported this service I believe for a while

Daza Britannia Rimini remember that one and I think mytravel lite did it or were going to it. I always remember one particular winter at BHX on a Thursday and there were 5 Britannia 732's passing through including Palermo
(Horizon Travel before Orion) which operated November then Feb half-term onwards - another route be can't even get in summer.

However the Thursday Tenerife could only manage a split load (how times have changed), it went GLA-BHX-TFS with one going in the opposite direction at a similar time.

FQTLSteve Yes remember the Iberia service and again always packed along with the SAS DC9-21 (not so good loads except during NEC exhibitions) at a similar time to CPH.

getonittt Agree with Hellenic. There is a little bit one One World with
the BA code-share on the flybe flights and BA still own a share in them, okay a bit tenuous.

Air Anglia - It used to park by the spiral steps and easy to count the pax off (always more interest in loads than registrations:)). That did so well for such a long time unlike the Swansea and Brymon Plymouth which was variable to say the least.

To keep it a bit present as well, the thread has been so active this last week I am not sure if it has been mentioned (Daza might have) but Air Malta are coming back. Not scheduled alas but the Thomson Tuesday flight this summer. It is another drop in seats as it was the 189 738 but at least a bit of variation. Not sure what the 738 is doing in place.

Pete

[ATNotts]

Air Canada's ill-fated Tristar service

Pete

That service looked suspiciously like a spoiler, as aprt of a strategy to kill off Wardair which, with their newly ordered fleets of 310s, and plans for "proper" year round scheduled services between UK and Canada were becoming a real threat on what would at the time, have been one of Air Canda's most important markets.

Wardair went down shortly after the end of AC's first (and only) summer season at BHX - and surprise surprise, AC were never seen again.

Were AC government owned then?

[AdamG1]

Anybody else remember that short lived maintenance contract that had TU154's parked up round the back, next to the railway track? Think they were having new interiors, but could be wrong!

[BHX5DME]

There are a lot of historic pictures from BHX on the BHX movements ********.

BHX5DME

http://bhxmovements.********.com/

[Burpbot]

Not to forget Brums own airline, Paramount! Sadly missed!

[chinapattern]

Adam G1;

Anybody else remember that short lived maintenance contract that had TU154's parked up round the back, next to the railway track? Think they were having new interiors, but could be wrong!

Don't recall that but I've got a few photos of a TU-154 in old Aeroflot colours parked up on those stands which I always assumed was the Kyrgyzstan Airlines flight to Bishkek but I could be wrong. If memory serves me correctly the flight targeted connections to India but didn't last long (somethings never change).

The shop at the viewing gallery used to have a noticeboard outside which used to list all the interesting movements. My dad used to take me Sunday mornings and have happy memories watching the AA to Chicago loading up ready to go. One time we went to see an Alitalia A300 come in but when it arrived it was plain-all white on some sort of charter flight. Remember seeing a Sabre 727 and British World BAC 1-11's. Sometimes we'd go to Manchester and I remember the excitement when a Royal Air Maroc 747 landed - no idea what that was doing there.

Happy memories in 1996 when all the charters for the Euro96 arrived and was amazed at the number of planes parked just about everywhere. Also saw Air Force One bring in President Clinton for the G8 and whenever Concorde was coming in we were always there at the old viewing park. It's also hard to believe that back in the day Cyprus Airways used to send their A310's to Birmingham. Oh the nostalgia! And Nationair? Remember them?

Also, has BHX ever seen an MD-11? Find it funny that the new pier has markings for them on the stands. Is it just incase KLM upgrades?

[AdamG1]

I think the Maroc 747 came in because of a new mosque that was been opened in Birmingham.

Also before BASE we had NLM Fk27's to Amsterdam. I think they were both merged into The KLM Cityhopper brand.

And finally, there was the Air France SAAB 340, which I think was always the same one I kept seeing, FGELG ( I think! )

Adam

[OltonPete]

chinapattern Yes used Nationair BHX-LGW-YYZ and YYZ-BHX direct.

The aircraft I flew back on crashed three weeks later killing 261, needless to say they didn't last long after that.

ASN Aircraft accident McDonnell Douglas DC-8-61 C-GMXQ Jeddah-King Abdulaziz International Airport (JED) (http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19910711-0)

AdamG1 - Air France Saab, your memory is correct I flew on that in pretty awful weather from BHX and it was as smooth as anything.

Burpbot - Never got to use them but they seemed an impressive airline looking at it from the outside it was sad to see them go.

Half-term - meanwhile a fairly decent weekend due to the school holidays. Swiss upgraded every flight today, A320 early, A321 lunchtime and an A319 this evening.

Baby doubled their number of flights this Saturday including three Geneva's.

Thomas Cook also had an extra Tenerife with their NBE and PFO restarting tomorrow.

Flybe had an extra Lyon (hint hint) today and easy operated all four scheduled flights as well (3 x GVA and 1 x GNB).

Also Air France managed an A319 tonight instead of the usual A318 after a week of cancellations.

Pete

[chaps2011]

The Royal Air Maroc B747 was for the launch of a new car and flew many
sales people out to see it, also had a number of B737/27 that week

[groundhogbhx]

JAT used to fly 727's and DC9's, with the odd 707 thrown in.
Air Canada was L1011's and 767's vis Prestwick. Apart from the first flight when Sue Pollard was out on the ramp there was no advertising or publicity, and the crews were really grumpy!
Aviogenex were Tu-134's, 737's and the odd 727.
RAM 737's used to come in around 2300.
El Al came in a few times, always remember it being followed by the police landrover from the runway.
Iberia A300's on Aviaco flights, and the other Spanish charters by Hispania, LAC, Spantax, Viva, and many others I can't remember right now.
Wardair used to operate the shortest scheduled 747 route in the world BHX-LBA.
Other Canadians were CP Air, Worldways, Nationair, others?
American Trans Air, L1011's to various locations in the US for Ambassador Travel Club and a 727 based one winter for Dan-Air.
UK charter airlines Airways International Cymru, Amdassador, Air Europe, BIA, Paramount, IEA, TEA UK, Orion, Dan Air, Excallibur, BAF, Hot Air, Baltic, Air Scandic, Club Air and some more that escape me just now.

[ericlday]

Air Maroc 747 was about the time Vauxhall did a car launch in Marrakech. Other aircraft from Air Maroc were utilised from other parts of the UK and Europe as it was a Pan European launch.

[simoncorbett]

Going back to the late 1960's I remember the Alitalia/Sam caravelles also Friday nights used to be very exciting with air Spain Britannia then dc8 then there were the spantax Coronado ......oh and fab restaurant below control tower with views ! I will never forget GAVYE trident and the fantastic Boac vc10,BMW dc9-15 to LHR,I was there for last BA viscount
I do also remember siting round for hours with nothing landing or taking off ! In fact I remember even in the early 1980's on a Sunday the 1st arrival of days wasn't till after midday....
Does anyone else remember servern air herons ?

[ajfreeman]

I remember my dad taking me there in 1989, sitting around for around 3 hours to see 4 BAC 1-11's, an Iberia DC-9, Airtours MD-83, TEA 737-300, 2 Britannia 737-200s and a Lufthansa 737-200 or 300 that landed at teatime.

I can remember many good things in the 90's, Birmingham European which became Brymon European, then Maersk Air UK, before its fate as Duo.

Euro 96 saw the Dutch in mass, with the Martinair 747 and MD-11s, Corsair 747 along with a huge host of smaller visitors.

Saturdays saw the Air Toulouse and Air Provene Caravelles from Aix-Les-Baines, what a great sight they were departing!

Can anyone else remember MacAir Jetstream 31 that operated?

I have photos of 2 Aeroflot Tupolev 154's parked around the back by the railway line from 1997 (i think).

Then came along Turkmenistan (still with us thankfully), Tajikstan (Tristar), Uzbekistan (757/767), Kyrgyzstan Airlines (A320/Tu154)

Weekends hosted Balkan and VIA Tu-154s.

Then came the UEFA Cup final at Villa Park which bought another huge amount of charters in from Spain and Italy.

Shame 2012 doesnt have as much variety!

[JSCL]

For a minute there, I thought I'd wandered in to 'Aviation History and Nostalgia' ;)

[Navpi]

The Wardair flights were more to do with ExPats visiting friends and family who emigrated in the 70s. The flights dried up when the market did. Plus these days there isnt that inveitable "waving of the hanky at the airport", there technology is there to see and talk to relatives anywhere in the world via the PC if you so wished.

What is galling however is the number of flights Air Canada operate into Heathrow. With multiple service and direct flights to Toronto, Ottawa , Halifax, Montreal, Edmonton, Vancouver, St Johns etc it is crasy that all that total UK demand is forced into Heathrow.

[groundhogbhx]

Ah, Macair, EDI-LDY-CFN-BHX-CFN-LDY-EDI twice a day. lovely crews and increasing pax loads when they went.

[FQTLSteve]

The BHX timetable for summer 2003 has some interesting services:-

Mytravellite

1xDaily Alicante, 1xDaily Beauvais, 1xDaily Geneva + BA/Maersk 1xDaily,
1xDaily Pisa, 1XDaily BCN + BA daily

PIA 2xweekly to Chicago A310 + Daily to ISB/KHI/LHE

Swiss 2xDaily Basle as well as ZRH

BA 1XDaily Bordeaux, Vienna, 4xweekly Venice, Daily Turin, 2xDaily Stockholm, Daily Nice,2xDaily Berlin

Uzebekistan 2xweekly to JFK! 767 and Daily to Tashkent 757/767

Not forgetting CSA Daily to PRG

On a different note does anyone know why One World have abandoned BHX, Star are huge, and even Sky Team respectable, but why have they, One World, just left it to the other two??

[ajfreeman]

Also forgot to mention Kazakhstan Airlines on a sunday with a Tu-154, that was notoriously late and often arrived on a monday!

[getonittt]

On a different note does anyone know why One World have abandoned BHX, Star are huge, and even Sky Team respectable, but why have they, One World, just left it to the other two??

Because B.A. are the major player and if your from the midlands you have to go to london , maybe manchester , but preferably london. It also goes some way to explain why the lobbying of American Airlines to re-instate the BHX-ORD sevice has been fruitless.
Actually One world will have a presence from 20th march when Air berlin join but as you can't get on that flight London airways will allow it to continue :ooh:

[rn750]

One World serving One UK city..

[nigel osborne]

NAVPI, re Wardair,

not sure thats totally correct I flew with them twice and certainly seemed most were holiday families.Why would people visit ex pats during that period in large numbers but not before or after as you seem to suggest?

What killed Wardair was that Air Canada disposed of them at BHX.They moved in on the hugely successful operation Wardair had at BHX ,putting 747/Tristars and 767s .

With Worldways also offering Tristar flights the market became saturated.

Fewer people had been using Air Canada out of LHR partly due to the huge capacity offered especially by Wardair out of BHX LGW, and MAN, and Air Canada had to stop that.

Ward Air unable to compete pulled out of BHX.With their job done Air Canada also pulled out of BHX a short time later, and passenger numbers recovered for them at LHR.

One of the most ruthless airline strategies seen at BHX, but effective.

[Skipness One Echo]

Wardair went upmarket and lost interest in the expat market. They had 14 A310s to fill and were going after the business market. They also dropped PIK as it no longer fitted. Guess what? New policy was a disaster and they were gobbled up by Canadian. UK Canada is pretty seasonal fare, the fact that Air Canada serve multiple routes fron LHR is because London and connectivity support it. Edinburgh with all it's links to Canada struggled to maintain a weekly YYZ on an A310. BHX is unlikely to do any better alas.

One last thing, Air Canada out of GLA and MAN never got the B767 with the new business class. They have four B763s that have tge old seats they fly on seasonal leisure routes to DUB, BCN and elsewhere. LHR has the full new product which BHX would not see.

[Daza]

There certainly is a market for flights to Canada ex BHX, In recent years PIA and Air India operated YYZ (AI stopped flying to protect slots ex LHR). Air Transat have maintained their services and I know someone who manages Canadian Affairs ops on the ground at Birmingham and the service is very well supported indeed its very difficult to get a seat at Birmingham during its season of operation and passengers are regularly off-loaded and bussed to Manchester or Gatwick.

AC and BA operate around 4800 seats a day to and from Toronto (AC x 5 and BA x 2) so of course this would has a detrimental effect on Birmingham securing regular scheduled service as there is so much choice just 2 hours away down the M40.

The difference with Birmingham and the other cities talked about is the huge Sikh community in the West Midlands many of whom now have relatives who live in around Toronto and Ontario. They regularly account for at least 40% of the seats sold on Air Transat. I'm sure there is the potential for more services from Birmingham but probably from Air Transat or other charter airline as the scheduled market south of Birmingham is sewn up at LHR. :rolleyes:

[Jonnyf]

Very positive to see that Lufthansa is going from strength to strength at Birmingham. 19% rise in passengers from 2010 to 484,503 passengers being carried on Lufthansa's services in 2011 to Dusseldorf, Frankfurt and Munich.

Highest passenger numbers for Lufthansa in there history from Birmingham to be carried in one year. Numbers set to increase further in 2012 with new services of 12 x weekly to Hamburg and Daily Berlin-Brandenburg service to commence :D

[j636]

LH have moved the Berlin flight times to lunchtime. Leaving BHX at 13.05. If im correct it was around a 20.00 departure when they were announced.

[Daza]

Revised times are much better than a 2300 arrival in Berlin.

[nigel osborne]

Daza,

Canadian Affair should hang their heads in shame,as you say our 1 piddly flight a week to YYZ in the summer is rammed,think load factor was 99% last summer.:eek:

Perhaps you can ask their rep why they have put 2 fingers up to a 2nd service out of BHX but are quite happy to ferry Brummies up to MAN where they have increased capacity this summer !:=:*

[Daza]

Nigel Osbourne wrote

Canadian Affair should hang their heads in shame,as you say our 1 piddly flight a week to YYZ in the summer is rammed,think load factor was 99% last summer.

Perhaps you can ask their rep why they have put 2 fingers up to a 2nd service out of BHX but are quite happy to ferry Brummies up to MAN where they have increased capacity this summer !

Nigel your post sounded a little sharp! Please don't shoot the messenger! :}

Canadian Affairs only charter part of the load the flight is officially a scheduled service operated by Air Transat.

The reason the second service was shelved was due to lack of suitable aircraft TCX 757s in low density seating were used until this agreement came to an end. I believe that last Summer Canadian Affairs attempted to charter alternative aircraft without success.

I also wonder if TS high density 330-300/200s have payload restrictions off Birmingham's runway? I'm sure they could fill another 330 or 310 service a week at least although the 310s are being phased out from Summer 2013.

[nigel osborne]

Hi Daza, certainly not aimed at you... but no remorse re Canadian Affair.

All seats I believe are sold on the 330s.

Last summer their attempt at a second flight was pathetic.In their brochure as a TCX 757 then a MON one.The fact that their were no other long haul flts with such an aircraft anywhere to Canada from the UK meant straight away it wasn't going to operate.

They could quite easily route an A310 via somewhere else if they wanted, but seems BHX is not one of their favoured routes, and they are happy to just keep on increasing MAN which I think was already daily to YYZ !

So for the 3rd year in a row the one flight will be completely full.

They are not alone in the pathetic catergory..BHX still only has 1 flt a week to Orlando with TOM who also refuse to offer increases.We used to get 2 with TOM, MON also operated their.

Both CWL and NCL have more capacity their than BHX for the first time this summer ..Embarrassing:O

[Skipness One Echo]

So for the 3rd year in a row the one flight will be completely full.
How do you know they don't make more money by using the aircraft at MAN? EDI has exactly zero, NCL / EXT may or may not even operate, LGW and LHR are no brainers, which leaves GLA with a few TS flights per week. Even LHR only has two flights from TS, the real issue is that nowadays, UK-Canada is not a focus in the way that it once was. If BHX-YYZ was a goldmine, account for the fact that no one else has picked it up?

[ATNotts]

Skipness

Afraid I can't help but agree with you - the VFR business between UK and Canada is literally dying.

What's more, if you are Transat, would you rather make a good profit on one flight a week, or be busy fools making less operating two?

[OltonPete]

Flybe

Just checked the flybe connections timetable which gives aircraft types
and some highlights are.

From 1/3/2012

BE781/84 08.25/08.55 changes to the 195
BE789/92 16.05/16.55 changes to the 195
BE793/96 20.05/20.35 changes to the 195

If you think that was a decent uplift in the number of seats - see below

From Monday 27/03/2012

Incredibly BHX-GLA Monday to Friday is showing as an all jet 195 service

Six daily Monday & Friday and seven Tuesday, Wednesday & Friday,
which appears to me to be the spare 195 being put into service.

Due to this the Monday & Friday midday Jersey is also now showing
as the 195.

The Hanover on Saturday morning and Sunday night is also showing
as the 195.

Milan is showing as a daily 195 but with Q400 flying times.

The 175 on a Sunday does double Dusseldorf.

I can't find what the 175 does on a Saturday.

Anyone from flybe to confirm the above? I did wonder whether the 195 will
actually turn into a 175 subject to delivery on new units?

The three BHX based 195 schedule appears to be: -

1) BHX-CDG-BHX-CDG-BHX-CDG-BHX
2) BHX-GLA-BHX-JER-BHX-GLA-BHX-GLA-BHX
3) BHX-EDI-BHX-MXP-BHX-EDI-BHX

Lufthansa

Dusseldorf actually showing a downgrade from mid April to mid June with the
morning and afternoon service currently showing as the CRJ700 of Cityline, which is 16 less seats per flight so not too bad.

Canada

Is there any evidence of decline in VFR traffic within the Midlands Sikh community in respect of travel to Toronto?

I would have thought it is more a case of not having the right aircraft available for a second flight and committing a second A333 as stated previously would probably just trash yields.

As Daza and Nigel have stated, loads were around 99% in 2011 and as far as
I can remember there was little if any discounting at all. It is frustrating
that a solution could not be found.

[nigel osborne]

AANOTTS/SKIPNESS.

Re Air Transat you make some good points and as you say possibly make more money out of MAN then BHX.

However some clarifications..

"Even Heathrow has only 2 flts"

You try finding more slots at LHR at the times you want.Then of course you have a large number of flights by BA and Air Canada.

We flew out to Vancouver and back from Calgary with BA in May. Both were overbooked and we were tempted when they wants 24 people to miss the flight home from Calgary for £300.00 each.

BA rep told us every flight to both destinations was completely sold out till Sept, so hardly a dying destination.

"Only a few flights from Glasgow"

Actually will have 6 a week and another for peak summer.

Your comments on if it was a goldmine at BHX someone else would take it over ? These are charter flts so can you name another carrier that does that into the UK ?

The whole argument is similar to what BHX are saying, passengers forced up to Manchester as there are not enough flts from BHX.As I said earlier Manchester flights are INCREASED this summer , so again hardly a dying destination.

[OltonPete]

Another poor month but not surprising going by the amount of services that were cancelled and good job the weather was okay.

Source: CAA 501328 passengers, year to date 8587047 +0.2

ATM's 5623 -5.8 (wow on few diversions) rolling 83480 -1.4

A mixed month for airports with most down but BFS +8.9% and LCY +5.3%
quite good.

Luton 585102 +1.1%

Bristol down 3.5% and Liverpool -4.5%

Gatwick and East Mids late as usual.

Dubai only down 2%, quite a high figure and back over 80% load factor.

Turkish was once again the star up 51% and there was a flight cancelled this year due snow in Istanbul.

Rest were a mixed bunch with Newark up but very modest, PIA down, Frankfurt and Zurich down but Munich well up plus Paris, Brussels, Dusseldorf and, Copenhagen and Amsterdam also showing increases.

Cork was another route showing excellent figures considering the month.

[Skipness One Echo]

BA rep told us every flight to both destinations was completely sold out till Sept, so hardly a dying destination.
I suspect dropping from a B777 down to a B763 drove that one, Calgary remains on the smaller Boeing. The fact remains that no one has stepped up to the mark to serve BHX-YYZ, which I agree is a shame.

Your comments on if it was a goldmine at BHX someone else would take it over ? These are charter flts so can you name another carrier that does that into the UK ?
Air Transat operate this as a scheduled service with Canadian Affair booking seats. If the market was worth it, surely Thomas Cook would have Toronto on the B757 as per previous years?

[BobBHX]

All the posts over the past few days on historic routes have made me all nostalgic. Someone mentioned Hannover and Hamburg, but what wasn't mentioned was that it was routed BHX/HAJ/HAM/BHX, in a BAC 111. The old B14s had wonderful blue velour armchairs in business and, if C wasn't too full, a lucky few in Y got the huge chairs.

Other highlights in the late 80s / early 90s were ABZ on a Gulfstream 1 with a pair of rearward facing seats at the front; AMS in a SF 340, LHR in an ATP, LGW in a Shorts 330 and NCL in J31s and J42s.

[Monty Gordo]

Happen to notice that Stoke City are playing Valencia tonight and I presume there must be several thousand (?) fans plus players and officials heading into Stoke for that match.

Are their any charter flights planned for this match, and if so, where are they heading for? Does BHX pick up any of these or do they all head for Man?

[EGBE0523]

And another couple of routes long gone.
BHX - LHR on the wonderful Viscount flown by BEA (BE)
BHX - LGW flown by BCAL (BR) using a Twin Otter

[nigel osborne]

Skipness one echo.

Unfortunately TCX do not appear to be using their 757s on long haul any more. For crewing, scheds you just can't do a one off flt from just the 1 airport long haul, which is why it was never going to happen out of BHX last year.

Relation to BA the Vancouver was a 747, that was full ,and as you say Calgary was a 767.

Talking to the gent at the Calgary gate, he stated virtually every day they are having to ask people to stay behind as its so overbooked.

There is no doubt there is huge over demand for flights to Canada and simply not enough planes to meet such

However you are right to point out that most want economy price seating, and apart from Air Transat and perhaps a few flights from Sunwing to LGW nobody else is interested in that market.

Air Canadas price to Vancouver was £600.00 more return for 2 of us from LHR,than the BA equivalent so was a no brainer.

Nigel

[crewmeal]

BHX - LHR on the wonderful Viscount flown by BEA (BE

Before the mods send half this stuff under BHX nostalgia to Aviation History, I remember when I was working for Fortes Flight Catering at hanger 1 seeing a BOAC 707 operating an LHR flight instead of a Viscount. Of course BHX was full of diversions from afar in order for this to happen. I believe it was around 1972-3.

[nigel osborne]

Crewmeal.

Remember 30 diversions parked on the short in 1977, BEA Tridents BOAC 707S/VC-10S,BEA Vanguards,Viscounts,SAS,SWISS,Austrian DC-9s, etc.

Wonderful sight... then Cat 3 came along...booo !:mad::sad:

Nigel

[Skipness One Echo]

LHR in an ATP a "highlight".
I remember seeing the old Skodas (80ps, Another Technical Problem) in the queue for 27L on their way to EMA and BHX. Different days.