Oban/Glenforsa News [Archive] - Page 3

eharding

11th May 2010, 11:04

In fact why dont they operate unlicenced other than the short periods when the Islander is operating. That could save them a fortune.[/LEFT]

What? Heresy! - I mean, that fire engine won't polish itself, you know....and the consequences of someone breaking a fingernail polishing a fire engine at an unlicenced airfield simply don't bear thinking about.

Events on Sunday afternoon provided a deep insight into what's wrong at Oban.

The merest whiff of an opportunity to close down based on the fanciful notion that volcanic ash could have the slightest impact on anything operating out of there was grasped with both hands, relishing the opportunity to exercise bureaucratic power.

£35 a head out-of-hours extortion duly collected, and from then on the place proceeded to run far more smoothly without the presence of the operating authorities - tea and jammy dodgers were consumed in vast quantities, and we managed to get 6 fixed-wing plus 1 rotary airborne in 10% of the time it would have taken had the tower been in action.

Whilst we're on the subject of the tower, who was the Jim Henson creation in there on Saturday afternoon? - when asked to clarify the location of H1 from 2 miles out, the reply was "In front of you". Brilliant. Outstandingly useless.

35 quid and you'll take the afternoon off? - tell you what, here's £70 - take the whole day off. Please.

The Original GF

13th May 2010, 13:28

Lol :)

OGF

MetOffice

20th May 2010, 16:06

I see in the latest GA Occurrences that Oban has reported the Argyll Air Services Islander on no less than 4 occasions in one week for landing short of the displaced theshold:=....Bet that's done wonders for the working relationship at the airfield!!!!

Gelande Strasse

20th May 2010, 18:41

With Heb Air having taken over the contract, would it be correct to say that all of the staff at Connel are surplus to requirements?:cool:

Fertile ground for conflict as would appear to be the case.

GS

Phil Space

20th May 2010, 20:16

Islanders could have provided the service from day one with no upgrade of the runways.

A lot of public/euro money has been spent here for what?

Making it difficult for GA will mean less movements

Just wondering

20th May 2010, 20:37

Oban MOR city these days !

Capt Whisky Whisky

3rd Jun 2010, 19:47

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u218/TCH_photo/th_ObanX.jpg?t=1275594481

?

WW

dont overfil

3rd Jun 2010, 20:22

I know some folks who would love that strip of useless tar on their field.
What do you say 140KTS?
DO.

Maoraigh1

3rd Jun 2010, 21:49

How did the Glenforsa Fly-in go? Our group aircraft was having an engine overhaul, and nothing was available to hire for long enough. The third Mull I've missed since 1987

flybymike

3rd Jun 2010, 22:44

Exactly what is the reason for such a huge displacement of the threshold?

mad_jock

4th Jun 2010, 00:10

Political bun fight.

The airport managment pissed off one of the airfield users off that had a long term lease on land airside. The user erected a fence which compromises the protected area around the runway. So they had to displace the threshold to allow the protected area.

eharding

4th Jun 2010, 00:20

The airport managment pissed off *one* of the airfield users off that had a long term lease on land airside.

Asterisks mine....which begs the question who have the Oban management not managed to antagonise?

mad_jock

4th Jun 2010, 00:25

I think that old bastard in the caravan site would be quite happy. But thats mainly because there is significantly less traffic using Oban these days

flybymike

4th Jun 2010, 12:21

What is the remaining runway length after the displaced threshold?

mad_jock

4th Jun 2010, 13:58

http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-D5ACCE4AF32D8A84FD6625CC68E8C27E/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/Charts/AD/NON_AIRAC/EG_AD_2_EGEO_2-1_en_2009-12-17.pdf

Doesn't even have it on that its been displaced which is abit naughty

but there is a notam but I suspect its going to be one of these notams which is perm feature.

Q) EGPX/QMDCH/IV/NBO/A/000/999/5628N00524W005
B) FROM: 10/05/24 13:21C) TO: 10/06/30 16:30
E) RWY 01 THR DISPLACED 422M REVISED DECLARED DISTANCES AS FOLLOWS:
TORA TODA ASDA LDA
RWY 01 702M 702M 837M 782M
RWY 19 842M 902M 842M 642M

So they have lost over a third of the runway. Thus none of the biz jets which they reckoned were going to use it can get in now.

You might say well who would want to take anything biggish in there?

Well there are some rather well to do companys which are involved with the distillerys wanted to get in there. Also as well quite a few yacht owners used to get the livin crew to sail it up and then they got picked up in Oban.

flybymike

4th Jun 2010, 16:01

What a bloody cock up and waste of tarmac....:rolleyes:

Johnm

5th Jun 2010, 07:21

mad_jock

5th Jun 2010, 10:26

Well maybe now is the time to start writing to the various political entities to try and get it sorted.

I could understand why they wouldn't touch it with a barge pole last year. But now the election is out of the way its maybe time for the GA community to highlight to the powers that be the money that has/still is being pissed up the wall.

That place must be costing a fortune to run for very very few movements. A few letters explaining that the whole place could be run without a license and associated paperwork could save the tax payer at least half a million a year.

Along with dropping of out of hours bits of paper they might actually get movements back up to old levels. Private Biz jets could start coming in again because I presume the fence would be removed after the annoyance factor had gone. The islander could continue its service, the service would proberly be improved because they could run extra sectors when demand was there instead of being tied to airfield operating hours. Make it a condition of use nothing bigger than 19 seats which will keep the DFT happy and its a win win situation. The only fall out will be the ego's of certain people.

Capt Whisky Whisky

5th Jun 2010, 12:12

Does anyone know of another code 1 Airport in the UK that has 13 full time employees?

WW

Captain Smithy

5th Jun 2010, 16:25

I can't understand why there aren't maladministration actions at Argyll and Bute Council, on the face of it the Council appears to have failed in its duty to take good advice and spend public money wisely.

The management appear to be accountable to no-one which also can't be right.

Finally the markings are wrong if it's a displaced threshold, the markings indicate a closed runway, you really couldn't make this saga up!

I thought that was the whole point of Councils... cock things up completely, waste lots of money in the process and answer to no-one for it... :suspect:

A shame really as Oban's great. Why do things have to be made such a mess of?

Smithy

Johnm

5th Jun 2010, 18:21

Why do things have to be made such a mess of?

They don't. Gloucestershire Airport provides a good model for a very busy but relatively informal council run airport with a scheduled service or two.

Oban could be run on similar lines, Gloucesteshire is licenced and has ATC but its very busy, Oban could be run with FISO and licenced only when scheduled services operated.

I'm sure the council could find other work for the many staff when the airport didn't need them :)

To whom do we write????

Phil Space

5th Jun 2010, 19:36

Write to local/national newspapers,radio and tv.
The silly season is coming up,the time when everyone goes on holiday and news slows down,so bombard the media with this info.

With the new open access to council spending it is all available.

Oban is a fiasco.

mad_jock

5th Jun 2010, 19:43

Audit Scotland carries out audits for the Auditor General and the Accounts Commission (http://www.audit-scotland.gov.uk/)

These are the folk to contact and put your views to.

The Original GF

5th Jun 2010, 19:51

To whom do we write????

Council CEO Sally Loudon

Council Leader [email protected]

MSP Jim.Mather.argyll-snp.com

Stewart Stevenson Transport Minister

The Oban Times

The Glasgow Herald

The Scottish Times

The Scottish Sun

This is Audit Scotland's remit for public bodies, they must:

operate within the regulations that govern their work
deliver value for money
act honestly, with propriety and integrity
carry out their duties to the highest standard

Has Argyll & Bute Council complied re Oban Airport?

OGF

Phil Space

5th Jun 2010, 21:30

The following are a must;

The Oban Times,The Glasgow Herald,The Scottish Times, and the Scottish Sun.

The loss of public money coupled with an airport that is overstaffed and under used because of total mismanagement is a fur lined ocean going first class scandal.

Sweet & Sour

5th Jun 2010, 21:38

I'm sure the council could find other work for the many staff when the airport didn't need them

How could you find work for the most bone idle employes in the council? they wont even help the Islander pilots with passenger lugage!!
Fire the lot :mad:.
S&S

muffin

6th Jun 2010, 08:00

Apparently there is a room in the terminal which is full of brand new gym equipment which has been purchased to allow the employees there to keep fit, presumably so they will then be able to help carry the bags?

Capt Whisky Whisky

6th Jun 2010, 12:31

In this weeks Oban Times:

Page 1.
Parents threaten to demonstrate as ABC cut £46k from school transport budget, forcing children to walk to school on unsuitable roads and (in winter) in the dark.

Page 3.
Failed Airline owes council £50k. Council spokeswoman says '£50k is only some 0.02 percent of the councils overall budget and we are confident we will be able to manage this situation':D

WW

mad_jock

6th Jun 2010, 13:15

How much budget a year is it for the Airfield?

The Original GF

6th Jun 2010, 13:53

How much budget a year is it for the Airfield?

Airports Budget Circa £2m

maxred

6th Jun 2010, 14:44

Last year I wrote to Alex Salmond, I wrote to the then Transport Minister, the leader of Argyll & Bute Council, the local MP, my own MP, and got the usual bollocks in reply. The situation is a total farce, in fact criminal, however, the money has been spent, and from what I can gather the new leader of the cooncil, will be looking for a very large hole in which to bury this very large problem into.
Yes lets be inspired, and write to every media based entity, whilst the budget cuts loom. The authorities will not help one little bit, it has to be an investigative journalist, or a proper scandel finding prog like the BBC used to put out.
Hard hats on though:sad:

mad_jock

6th Jun 2010, 15:52

Try that link I gave max they are meant to be out of the political system.

I am not suprised last year nobody would touch it with a barge pole.

That amount of money getting pissed up a wall would have caused the politicians all sorts of issues. You might say why didn't of any the other partys bother, well I suspect that they proberly all had something to do with approving it. And if it does come to light what really went on the Proc fiscal might have to get involved.

I still reckon that the whole thing was someones cunning plan gone horribly wrong by accident. Personally I reckon that plan was to get the airport removed and the land released for something else. Put this plan forward get the runway condemed when the project was refused due to it being uneconomic and that would have got rid of it. Unfortunatly the none aviation savy local politicans ran with it and we are left with the mess which is Oban today.

Capt Whisky Whisky

6th Jun 2010, 17:03

With a change of management and some applied commonsense, Oban & Glenforsa Airports could be restored to the happy condition of just a few years ago imho.

WW

Helen49

6th Jun 2010, 17:36

The guys and gals who operate Oban Airport are as friendly and helpful a bunch of people as you could wish to meet. They are employed to provide the services required at a licensed aerodrome.

You may have a gripe with A & B Council about the need for the licensed aerodrome, however the personal attacks [verbal and otherwise] on the staff are uncalled for, and when done via the internet, particualrly cowardly.

As a mere visitor to Oban airport I can only express disappointment at the childish and offensive statements made by some of the contributors to this thread. Moreover contributors would do well to establish facts before making comment about any of the issues. Amongst the true statements are many that are incorrect.

I mean no offence in the above but wish to see some balance and fairness to all concerned!

Helen

dont overfil

6th Jun 2010, 17:44

Helen49,
I totally agree.
Whats more lets not shoot ourselves in the foot. Remember who owns the airfield. They could just close it.
DO.

Capt Whisky Whisky

6th Jun 2010, 17:58

Here we go again!:ugh:

WW

mad_jock

6th Jun 2010, 17:58

As a matter of interest Helen which statements are untrue?

Johnm

6th Jun 2010, 22:03

Helen 49

Oban used to have two quite satisfactory runways and was capable of supporting the landing and take off of private aircraft up to and including small jets. It could also service small public transport aircraft to cope with the needs of the islands.

It had a well managed fuel service and radio which was enough to serve all the practical needs at modest cost.

As a result of local politics a fortune was spent which now means that Oban has one runway, almost half of which is unusable, AFAIK it still has a well managed fuel supply capability, it has FISO who appears to believe that his primary role is to fill in MOR forms to no good purpose.

Thus the airport appears to be more expensive and less useful than before.

I'm pretty sure that all of the above is fact.

Say again s l o w l y

6th Jun 2010, 22:48

Must.resist.the.trolling......

140KIAS

8th Jun 2010, 07:07

I have to say that I agree with JohnM and Helen49.

The situation at Oban is a shambles. However I generally find the guys and gals on the ground extremely helpful.

It is my view that they are just doing the job being ask of them by their superiors. However they have insufficient prior experience/exposure to running a similar facility to appreciate the impact of some of their actions.

If you want to attack anyone please target the chiefs and leave the indians alone.

Captain Smithy

8th Jun 2010, 07:19

I also found the staff at Oban very friendly and helpful. :ok:

If anyone's to be gotten rid of it's the nutters who are making such an ar$e of running it...

Smithy

fisbangwollop

8th Jun 2010, 07:21

However I generally find the guys and gals on the ground extremely helpful.

Could not agree more....I talk to them on a daily basis through my job at "Scottish Information".......everyone is keen to help, dont forget they are all pretty new to the job and what lacks in experiance is more than made up for with their enthusiasm....yes these boys and girls are only the Indians and only doing their jobs.........keep up the good work...:cool::cool::cool:

Capt Whisky Whisky

8th Jun 2010, 09:03

So they are only following orders?

WW

maxred

8th Jun 2010, 09:30

Everyone who has commented agrees that the staff are helpful and congenial, why would'nt they be, however, the staff are also looking after their own jobs. Their own agenda in other words. Seven, or eight of them, sitting around playing scrabble, whilst we all pay for it, and deal with the airfield restrictions, is not good enough. The MOR'S say it all. Also in mid summer, to close the field at 5.00, or is it 6?? is ludicrous. Additional revenue can come from operating the field in a million differing ways. This has, however, been done to death. :}
Back onto the pen and paper.

mad_jock

8th Jun 2010, 11:10

Stick a complaint into Audit scotland and see what the next 6 months comes up with.

If they are having to chop school buses; after the emergency budget has been announced 2 million for a couple of airports ain't going to get past the budget committee. And the scottish parliment is going to have enough trouble balancing its own books to be handing out cash for it. I suspect 1 or 2 HIAL airports might be having to justify there budget as well.

I can't see them shutting the place after spending 8 mil on it.

But neither can I see them giving up and letting it go back to the old days. Its a fairly common issue with scottish councils that they hate the idea of anyone running a buisness and making a profit off the back of council property. Without the council having some sort of control over it and getting a cut. Which to be honest I think is the route cause of the issues with both sites.

maxred

8th Jun 2010, 14:19

The problem now may well be that there is no way out. The place does not, and may never make money. The 9 mill spent on it, frankly you can kiss bye bye to. The wage bill alone runs to over 1/4 mil each year. Beautiful facility, but...................even HIAL wont touch it!:eek::eek::eek: However, if someone can persuade the cooncil to give a large subsidy, to an LLP, them maybe, just maybe, a living could be got. That would get the cooncil off the hook, but also remember who operates can not get fuel revenue. That is a small issue:E

Capt Whisky Whisky

8th Jun 2010, 18:55

Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but did not the airport previously
make some money for the council with zero outlay to themselves.
And if movements returned to the levels of when it was voted best GA airport two years running, would it not provide an income stream to the council instead of a wacking great loss?

WW

mad_jock

8th Jun 2010, 19:13

Send you concerns to audit scotland.

But I can tell you now the idiots in charge will prefer that both airfields shut than either of the 2 local personalites have any hint on the horizon that they will be running things.

Capt Whisky Whisky

10th Jun 2010, 20:07

I think, if you were to enquire of the '2 local personalites' you would find that, they would be more than satisfied if they were just allowed to operate their business's without 'let or hinderence'.

WW

mad_jock

10th Jun 2010, 20:24

You know that, I know that but....

Its a fairly common issue with scottish councils that they hate the idea of anyone running a buisness and making a profit off the back of council property. Without the council having some sort of control over it and getting a cut. Which to be honest I think is the route cause of the issues with both sites.

Capt Whisky Whisky

10th Jun 2010, 20:34

I concur.

WW

Capt Whisky Whisky

21st Jun 2010, 13:10

Oban closed this afternoon due to a wheels up landing.
Everyone reported as ok.

WW

Capt Whisky Whisky

25th Jun 2010, 15:48

fisbangwollop

25th Jun 2010, 15:59

Light plane crash lands at Oban airport - The Oban Times Newspaper (http://www.obantimes.co.uk/news/view/light_plane_crash_lands_at_oban_airport/)

Whats the story here??......was the gear down and collapsed on landing or was the approach flown without gear??.....:confused: I know back in my runway caravan days a good pair of binoculars saved the MOD a hefty bill.....a quick scan of every aircraft approaching can save much embarrasment..:cool::cool::cool:

Capt Whisky Whisky

25th Jun 2010, 18:46

Whats the story here??......

Perhaps the tower was distracted by their letter writing activities and did not notice the lack of gear!:ok:

Hat, coat.

WW

Sweet & Sour

25th Jun 2010, 21:35

Perhaps the tower was distracted by their letter writing activities and did not notice the lack of gear

Perhaps if the control tower faced the right way, well !!!!!!, sorry thats sniping!:ouch:
S&S

eharding

25th Jun 2010, 23:11

Letter in the Oban Times today that appears to blame Paul Keegan for everything that is wrong at Oban airport including, depriving the public of an air ambulance service, denying larger aircraft access to the airport therefore depriving local business's of potential customers, and stopping our brave boys from training in their Tucano's 'at a time when our forces are so stretched'!
We are then asked to 'abandon the constant sniping of a petty vendetta' beforethe author goes on to tell us that 'the facility is well received and appreciated by users from around the world', but presumably, just the ones who can get there before 5 o'clock!

If these views are typical of the guys that work at Oban Airport, then any sympathy I might of had for their position has now disappeared.

So I wish 'four pensions' the author of this scurrilous piece of garbage, and his mates, the best of luck in the forthcoming round of council cuts.

Rant over, tin hat on.

WW

It is patently clear from anyone who visits the place who the hardest working person on the airfield is, and he's the chap who will be putting fuel in your aircraft, tea and jammy-dodgers in your tum, and cheer in your heart.

The fraggle-rock contingent who pretend to the title of 'Airfield Management' are operating little more than a thinly disguised protection racket....and the Spanish have a lovely term for the situation, roughly translated as "For every pig, there is a roasting".

I suspect the roasting has begun, and hence the squealing you've witnessed in the Oban Times.

Bide your time. The best pork crackling takes care and patience to prepare.

Say again s l o w l y

25th Jun 2010, 23:14

Plus a sharp knife and lots of salt to rub into the cuts...

Potential

26th Jun 2010, 01:02

It is patently clear from anyone who visits the place who the hardest working person on the airfield is, and he's the chap who will be putting fuel in your aircraft, tea and jammy-dodgers in your tum, and cheer in your heart.

Hear, hear. And don't forget the cool pens with the light on the end! :ok:

S205-18F

26th Jun 2010, 09:01

Yeah the pens are cool!!!! Especially at night when Paul supplies us with fuel at 2 in the morning then waits till we return to top up again! With out him the Western Isles would suffer.
God Save Paul Keegan!!!

Capt Whisky Whisky

2nd Jul 2010, 15:17

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u218/TCH_photo/07-01-2010063456PM-1.jpg?t=1278084877

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u218/TCH_photo/07-01-2010063126PM-1.jpg?t=1278084566

T18

2nd Jul 2010, 18:13

I would like to add my support of Paul Keegan, having visited Connal on many occasions prior to the "professionals" taking over. I visited earlier this year and could hardly believe the attitude." Park your aircraft over there, no, park with your tail wheel on the grass behind the white line"!

I ended up moving the a/c about four feet to satisfy the chap in the tower. Mind you they were very busy, there was another aircraft, I believe a C172 parked also. I did feel slightly less stupid when that pilot recieved the same attitude for not parking exactly in the imaginary spot.

For the avoidance of doubt, that made TWO aircraft on ramp.

However the lovely natured lass in the office collecting the landing fee did make up for the ATC's lack of grace.

It's a pity really because Oban is such a beautiful part of the country.

Come back Paul, all is forgiven I say!

sammypilot

3rd Jul 2010, 07:54

Visited Oban some years back in the company of friends who were regular visitors. Out initial call on the radio received the reply from Paul "I recognise that voice - Welcome back to Oban." We were met with drinks and Jammy Dodgers. We then flew across to Barra and back to Oban. Paul was there with the hose to wash off the seawater on the underside of the aircraft. Best service ever, anywhere.

Johnm

4th Jul 2010, 08:42

I last visited before the new regime and was very well served by friendly folk (Paul Keegan included) so will be eagerly anticipating the improvements when I return in a couple of weeks.

NorthSouth

4th Jul 2010, 16:42

What improvements? The displaced thresholds which AFISOs insist even private flights must adhere to? The non-availability of runway 04/22? The mandatory yellow jackets? The reduced opening hours? The start-up clearance requirement? The anal attitude to parking location and orientation? The increased landing fees?
NS

Johnm

4th Jul 2010, 17:15

What improvements?

Ever heard of irony:rolleyes:

vetflyer

4th Jul 2010, 22:28

but they arent ATC

srry being pedantic

airpolice

4th Jul 2010, 22:40

Can someone explain exactly why the threshold was moved?

Saab Dastard

4th Jul 2010, 22:46

Can someone explain exactly why the threshold was moved?

Post 515 above by MadJock, succinctly put:

http://www.pprune.org/5733462-post515.html

SD

Johnm

5th Jul 2010, 06:33

Surely not simply as a result of a pissed off leaseholder?

You've obviously never lived in a small community:ugh:

mad_jock

5th Jul 2010, 10:23

I believe it is the local flying club that erected the fence.

They have a long term lease on the land and have done for years.

Previously there was never an issue everyone got along and enjoyed flying at oban airport.

The fiasco started. The new managment decided that they would implement a heap of clueless rules and also decided that they would be done through out the airfield. Restrictions of access and all the usual stuff.

The club got that hacked off they erected a fence round there leased property which doesn't require PP. And also under Scots law they can't be restricted access to it either.

The airport also told fibs on there license application which one of the conditions is that the licancee has control over all the land inside the licensed airfield area which they did not.

I am willing to admit that my statement above is third hand and maybe incorrect. I am sure a local can confirm or deny my statement.

Capt Whisky Whisky

5th Jul 2010, 18:20

The A&BC applied for a Code 2 runway licence for Oban assuring the CAA on
the licence application form they either owned or controlled all the areas
required for the licensed runway. This was despite the fact that the
council's then development manager, Peter Jackson, pointed out in an email
to the council's legal department the Argyll Aero Club had a lease for 25
years on an area of ground that covered a significant part of the runway
strip adjacent to the 01 threshold. It is an offence to provide false
information, whether knowingly or not, for the purpose of obtaining an
aerodrome licence.
The CAA granted the Code 2 licence and then the council set about trying to
push the club off their leased area and ignoring the signed and recorded
lease document. After several months the club raised a legal action of
declarator in the courts asking the court to make a formal ruling on their
long standing lease with the council. The court totally upheld the club
lease and its terms and said it was absurd that the council should try to
ignore it.
The club then looked to the council to come to an agreement for the
resumption of any part of the leased area that they, the council as the
licensee, required for their Code 2 licence. Amazingly the council continued
to bully and tried to tough it out and attempted to raise the club's rent
for the leased area by sixfold. The club resisted and threatened further
legal action and obtained from the court a legal undertaking that the
council would not enter the area concerned without the express permission of
the club - the council broke that undertaking within a week and the club was
being harassed on a daily basis. By that point the had club spent about £15K
on legal fees which they are still seeking reimbursement for from the
council. Eventually the club committee took a decision to fence the area at
the western perimeter of their leased area. When this happened the CAA
immediately revoked the Code 2 runway licence and replaced it with a Code 1
runway licence.
It was expected that the CAA would prosecute the council for knowingly
providing false information on the licence application as they would should
a pilot provide false information in order to obtain a flying licence or
medical etc. To date nothing has happened but since March 2010 the director
of the department responsible for the airport and the licensing process and
two heads of service (including the head of legal services) have lost their
jobs within the council.
Who knows what will happen next ?

WW

Argyll Cooncil

5th Jul 2010, 19:25

Keegan never got the top job at Oban as he had a transgression with the law involving aviation. His mentality is if he can't run it well no one is going too. He was also booted out of Prestwick for being a **** and megalomaniac. It's hilarious watching his loyal hoodwinked followers bath him in glory. One poster who I assume works on the air ambulance hails him as the second coming of Christ............. puleeeeeeeeeees he is getting paid for it and it's his job and if he wasn't doing it well someone else would. As for the club setup it isn’t one it's a bunch of followers scared of his wrath and follow him and support his ideals which is off course to make money, not for the good and better of Oban Airport. Note to KEEGAN you never got the job you never will get over it move on, resign yourself to the fact that you’re the only one making money be happy with that, it's not your airport, it's the cooncils, you’re a guest, an awkward one at that.

Say again s l o w l y

5th Jul 2010, 19:44

http://www.jonrb.com/emoticons/popcorn3.gif

Oh and just for clarity, Paul might not be the second coming, but he is a very nice chap who provides an excellent service for a reasonable price.

DB6

5th Jul 2010, 19:49

Hmmmm, let's see now. First post, talking crap and illiterate to boot - Argyll Cooncil you make a convincing case.http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n107/DB6Mk2/masturbate.gif.

Argyll Cooncil

5th Jul 2010, 19:58

DB6,

Which part don't you like? The truth shall set you free and of course hurts sometimes!

Capt Whisky Whisky

5th Jul 2010, 20:32

Well there you go then! I'm convinced, you can't argue against that calibre of compelling logical argument.

I am pretty sure that Argyll Cooncil must be the (former) head of legal services for A&BC.:ok:

WW

MFC_Fly

5th Jul 2010, 21:16

I may just be a simple lad, but to me this all seems a little on the petty side :rolleyes:

If there was a falsification on the license application then that is for the CAA to deal with.

If there is a club that leases a part of the airfield then the management should butt out and leave them alone - as long as by doing so does not breech the integrity of standard airport security - for that is what Oban is, like it or not, it is an airport. If security means that the club have to play ball a little, then so be it.

The management should respect the club and the club should respect the management. Both should respect the GA community and air transport users of the airport and stop this stupidity.

I have visited Oban in the past few months and found it a very welcoming place. The AFISO was not as some suggest on here. I was told where to park, but I expect that everywhere I go. I parked approximately where I was told and nobody came out with a tape measure shouting at me. I had a lovely cuppa and biscuit with the firemen - the same people that are the AFISO's. They helped us get information about the weather to the north from an outbound scheduled flight over the radio. They didn't bat an eyelid when we started the engine without asking first. I honestly think, when reading some of the comments here, that I am reading about a different airfield :confused:

Come on guys, for the good of the GA community, the airport, the flying club, the council, the community, etc, stop all this "it's my ball and you're not playing with it" nonsense and get back to aviating... for aviations sake!

Contacttower

5th Jul 2010, 21:26

Does anyone know when the disagreement is likely to be settled and the full runway length restored? I can understand that the flying club are angry with the airport management but keeping the fence there surely isn't helping anyone.

mad_jock

5th Jul 2010, 21:46

I doud't very much it will be until the lease expires or the airfield reverts back to unlicensed when it won't matter any more. Which personally I think will be in the next 12 months.

The CAA can't prosecute anyone in Scotland they can only inform the proc fiscal who will then decide if it is in the public interest to prosecute. I would suggest for the good of the tax payer it isn't, the only people to benefit will be the legal types.

Currently the airfield is no use to man nor beast for anything larger than the islander which doesn't actually require the airfield to be licensed anyway.

Have they actually got the correct runway markings in yet for the displaced bit?

They obviously don't have anyone that has a clue and the CAA isn't helping them. I can think of a way of getting the runway full length in one direction.

Gelande Strasse

5th Jul 2010, 22:14

Ramieayr

5th Jul 2010, 22:44

What an embarrassment to aviation some of you guys really, Oban seems a great place to visit going by what my mates say. The lads at the airport are very friendly and helpful. Its maybe just aswell the bully is in a small town airport because he certainly wouldnt last a minute in bigger airports. He didnt last long down here. Maybe the locals & his followers should really look into his past at Prestwick & even as far back as his Haulage time, I could go on but am not the petty type. If i have a problem with the bully i will go to his face & be a man unlike the childish school kids carry-on on here,:= Get a life some of you and stop hiding your names like wee boys.

Oban airport is starting to gain alot of support, Lets all move forward.

Captain whisky whisky & how many other usernames you use, PK am sure you know what to do if you are an aviaton supporter.:ok:

mad_jock

6th Jul 2010, 07:53

Don't kid yourself.

The bean counters will decide in the end.

I am sure though that the airport won't be allowed to go back to its free and easy way. There will be some bollocks rules implimented to put a spoiler on things. Because they just couldn't live with the airport increasing movements after they had cocked it up so much. And the thought of PK pumping fuel making even more money would be intolerable to alot of council officals.

rocco16

6th Jul 2010, 08:41

I may just be a simple lad, but to me this all seems a little on the petty side :rolleyes:

If there was a falsification on the license application then that is for the CAA to deal with.

If there is a club that leases a part of the airfield then the management should butt out and leave them alone - as long as by doing so does not breech the integrity of standard airport security - for that is what Oban is, like it or not, it is an airport. If security means that the club have to play ball a little, then so be it.

The management should respect the club and the club should respect the management. Both should respect the GA community and air transport users of the airport and stop this stupidity.

I have visited Oban in the past few months and found it a very welcoming place. The AFISO was not as some suggest on here. I was told where to park, but I expect that everywhere I go. I parked approximately where I was told and nobody came out with a tape measure shouting at me. I had a lovely cuppa and biscuit with the firemen - the same people that are the AFISO's. They helped us get information about the weather to the north from an outbound scheduled flight over the radio. They didn't bat an eyelid when we started the engine without asking first. I honestly think, when reading some of the comments here, that I am reading about a different airfield http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/confused.gif

Come on guys, for the good of the GA community, the airport, the flying club, the council, the community, etc, stop all this "it's my ball and you're not playing with it" nonsense and get back to aviating... for aviations sake!

I had a similar experience and was well looked after as we had a 1.5 hour wait for fuel even though we had booked it the previous evening.

We were shown around including the tower (which they pointed out was built 90 degrees out, short obstructed side to the runway).

I think like every visitor, we felt it was a great place not quite firing on all 6 and hopefully for everyone things will improve.

The Original GF

6th Jul 2010, 09:41

If i have a problem with the bully i will go to his face & be a man unlike the childish school kids carry-on on here,:= Get a life some of you and stop hiding your names like wee boys.

Ramieayr, is that a scottish name?:ok:

OGF

Portnacroish

6th Jul 2010, 12:34

Funny how the Scottish Courts have found in favour of the resident fuel company and the aero club (two different legal entities BTW) at every turn.
Are they "bullies" too?

Skinny Runt

6th Jul 2010, 21:09

Reply to Argyll Cooncil and Ramieayr. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/tv/chewinthefat/media/download_sounds/mrs_olfactory.wav) :8

mad_jock

6th Jul 2010, 21:42

Runt that will be so lost on most folk on here :D

Skinny Runt

6th Jul 2010, 22:30

I think I shall retire to Lismore lighthouse .... (http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/tv/chewinthefat/media/download_sounds/lighthouse.wav) :8

Ramieayr

6th Jul 2010, 23:30

Resident fuel company and the aero club........
Who runs the both???? The same one who errected the fence overnight.
You get a silly man & a clever man,
Silly man gets caught & goes to prison.....:{
Clever man gets away with it.....:=
Hes been a clever man for too long

Watch this space....

Research is a powerfull thing

Isnt that right :ouch:

Skinny Runt

7th Jul 2010, 00:07

Someone with a grudge wrote ... Watch this space... . (http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/tv/chewinthefat/media/download_sounds/ooh.wav)

jaycee46

7th Jul 2010, 08:53

Top posts Skinny - I think Jock,s right though, it will be over most heads, south of the border anyway.:ok:

Anyway - Oban airport in a few words - typical Scottish Local Government infrastructure monumental f*ck up - officials and politicians covering their asses, at our expense, and blaming anybody, and everybody, except themselves for afore mentioned f*ck up - it will never change (until the revolution), so get over it, quit the moaning - which will be putting people off going to Oban, and start using the airfield, before it is turned into an industrial estate, or 'eco town' - the cooncil seems to like to pour our cash down drains in the North Connel area! :ugh:

Those who can - do something with a cross on a bit of paper at the next local authority elections - those who cannot - hassle Audit Scotland - it will do no good, but may make us feel better, if somebody gets fired!

As for PK, I am really not that bothered, within reason, what he is alleged to have done in the past. His business supplies a product which I need as a pilot - ie fuel - in a place I want to go to - ie Oban airfield - in a courteous manner. You don't need to like the guy as well!

Capt Whisky Whisky

7th Jul 2010, 15:51

Ramieayr, I thought your rant had a familiar ring, so I did some research, you need to be careful you don't get accused of plagiarism!
:ok:

WW

S205-18F

7th Jul 2010, 16:47

I cant understand why there is so much antagonism towards Paul. He ran the airfield, it was successful, won small airfield of the year twice and people came to Oban on a regular basis. Now that the Cooncil is running it it cant even attract enough planes to cover cost.
When the inter island service wanted to run an extra flight to pick up the excess passengers, which would have meant the airport remaining open for an extra 30 mins or so, it was met with an very definite NO!!!! Ermm correct me if I am wrong but surely thats the whole idea of the airport upgrade!!!!:ugh:
If Oban closes we are in for a very bad time in aviation on the West Coast as there is no other supply of Avgas short of a massive detour to Prestwick or Cumbernauld so like him or loathe him he is very much neaded!!!:(

Captain Smithy

7th Jul 2010, 18:16

One thing that never ceases to amaze me is how the internet (and PPRuNE especially) seems to completely warp the mentality of many people, seemingly turning supposedly grown-up, mature adults into gibbering, slavering, petulant creatures throwing playground insults in a feeble attempt to get some mud to stick and to gain some sort of moral high-ground.

Grow up for Christ sake. :ugh:

Smithy

BRL

7th Jul 2010, 19:52

Guys and gals. Just a quick reminder that I am still about here.

As this thread is heading towards days of old I am going to close it for a few days to let everyone settle down.

Now this is a shame after all we have been through in the past so I ask you now to please stop the personal nonsense when it re-opens.

S205-18F

14th Jul 2010, 14:35

Its a bit like Oban airport here:E
Quiet:O
OK I will get my coat:oh:

T18

14th Jul 2010, 19:26

Before you get your coat, ensure that your message is "parked" nearer the middle of the page.

Now it's even more like Oban!

This is a fun thread please keep it going people.

140KIAS

14th Jul 2010, 21:56

S205 - that will be £35 for posting outside published hours

mrmum

14th Jul 2010, 22:28

S205 - that will be £35 for posting outside published hours

and maybe even a MOR as well, just to make you feel special and appreciated!

140KIAS

15th Jul 2010, 05:29

and woe betide anyone who forgets to request permission before they hit 'submit reply' button

Gelande Strasse

15th Jul 2010, 05:46

OK I will get my coat:oh:

.........make sure it's HiViz :cool:

GS

blueandwhite

16th Jul 2010, 22:51

:)

I have just been up to Oban - Glenforsa area.

Having meet all concerned one thing seems to be less than obvious.

Everyone we met - without exception - was friendly and welcoming to us and we had a great time.

Certainly there are some problems and funny rules up there but don't let it put you off going to the area for the trip.

:)

jayteeto

17th Aug 2010, 12:22

Boy oh boy, this is amazing. I actually came on Pprune today to put a thread on about Oban Airfield but thought a quick search was prudent to make sure I wasn't repeating anything. What a shock!!
We did a patient transfer from Skye to Preston yesterday and used Oban as a refuelling stop. I planned to start a thread to tell everyone how excellent the service at the airfield was!! Pre flight was extremely helpful from ATC and refuellers. On landing we were given a lovely welcome message (nice touch if not iaw the CAP). The refuel was quick and efficient, tea from a pot with Jammie Dodgers was awesome and I just checked out there is a light on the pen, great! In the terminal, the admin staff were friendly, the firemen too. All in all, we all commented on how well they treated us. I am sure that some people have had issues, we did not at all. Oban, you are recommended to all by Jayteeto.

rmac

17th Aug 2010, 13:33

I was in Oban this weekend and on the whole enjoyed the experience. I have enough range on my aircraft that a landing in Oban is optional on a highland trip and on the whole just for the experience and a cup of tea.

One piece of advice for whoever does the radio at "Oban Information", its not Heathrow mate and the way you come across I wouldn't be surprised if your next trick is to start a clearance delivery frequency.

I would suggest that you left engine start to the pilots discretion given you are basically a GA airfield, pretty much like everyone else in the entire world does and that you also tried to find a way to make the extra runway available as a starter extension (for example at pilots discretion, no information service available or something similar) as I would hate to see the day when you have an aircraft land in the caravan site for want of an extra bit of braking space for an aborted take-off. How about trying to balance the risk for your customers, or in the event that its more than your "jobsworth" to do so at least let the pilot balance his/her own risk with reasonable friendliness and grace from your side.

Thanks

rmac

maxbear

17th Aug 2010, 20:41

rMac

I suggest you refer to the regulations of the airfield in question, they are available on the NATS website etc for all to see and to comply with.

Maxbear.

1. Airport Regulations
a. Non radio aircraft must obtain PPR via telephone with ATS prior to flight.
b. Pilots are to contact Oban Information to request start-up clearance.
c. High visibility jackets mandatory whilst airside.
d. All arriving Crew/Passengers must walk directly to the terminal and report their intentions to Oban airpot staff. Directions will be given to those
needing to proceed elsewhere airside. No persons will be permitted to walk across the apron area unless heading directly to/from aircraft via
the terminal building.
e. All Crew/Passengers walking from H1 and H2 are required to use the designated walkway to/from the terminal. No persons will be permitted to
walk across the apron area.

bingofuel

17th Aug 2010, 20:55

Is there any truth in the rumour a Royal flight pilot has been reported for landing outwith the opening hours to refuel.
HRH may not be amused!!

Say again s l o w l y

17th Aug 2010, 21:40

rmac

18th Aug 2010, 00:12

Rather missed the point there Maxbear. Didn't write that I wasn't aware of the "rules", just that I don't see the point of being that anal about how they run their airfield.

You might have noted that landing at Oban was optional in my case and for a little effort on their part they made a few quid towards the coffers and another few quid was spent in the local economy for lunch.

i.e. I am a customer and they are providing a service which I pay a fair price for and there must be some dynamic between service, price and recurring income.

Surprisingly enough quite a few others did get the point, so it must be you that has difficulty in understanding :eek:

Cows getting bigger

18th Aug 2010, 06:21

All arriving Crew/Passengers must walk directly to the terminal and report their intentions to Oban airpot staff. Directions will be given to those
needing to proceed elsewhere airside. No persons will be permitted to walk across the apron area unless heading directly to/from aircraft via
the terminal building.

Rather perversely, I think that rule increases the risk. Imagine some chap following the rule to the letter and walking through a turning prop.

Nonsense - someone who thinks they understand risk management has been allowed to run a mock with the aerodrome manual.

maxbear

18th Aug 2010, 06:53

Hello,

Well it is clear that some of you have a problem with Oban, there is a simple answer, just give the place a miss then, all the more coffee and biscuits for us at what is a lovely convenient airfield.

Chill out and enjoy !

Maxbear.

Johnm

18th Aug 2010, 07:53

We've done this a thousand times now.

Let's all agree that the staff at the airport are generally friendly and helpful, but that the political and management regime is not helpful to anyone and creates an inappropriate framework for the smooth and efficient running of a GA aerodrome that supports a little bit of CAT.

They might like to find out how Wanaka in New Zealand operates. They manage to run CAT and GA with no ATC at all!

The nice lady who flies the King Air to and from Christchurch, just makes traffic calls like everyone else and negotiates joining the airways when airborne!

BabyBear

18th Aug 2010, 09:22

Oh dear airpolice, you are allowing what is written here and, if accurate, a few minor inconveniences at Oban to stop you visiting? I respectfully suggest you reconsider as you are the one missing out on what you acknowledge as the place you should be going every weekend.

Say again s l o w l y

18th Aug 2010, 09:34

People are funny like that. It doesn't make them wrong. If they think they are going to get poor service or be over-burdened with stupid rules, then people will avoid places.

Oban is a lovely place and most of the staff there are absolutely fine. In fact most are actually very nice. However, the stupid rules are unnecessary from both a regulatory and safety stand point. We aren't dealing with RYR offloading 189 people in one moment, but a few people who are highly unlikely to do anything stupid.

It's typical council nonsense though. They are so risk averse and have no real idea what safety management actually means, so they chuck in millions of tiny rules to try and protect themselves in the event of an incident. (That applies to all councils, not just ABC.)

BabyBear

18th Aug 2010, 09:50

Not disputing what you say SAS.

What I find difficult to understand is how someone allows a few minor inconveniences to build up to the extent it stops them visiting Oban. The reality is that during a visit most of what you mention is not experienced. Sure the displaced threshold has you scratching your head, but whether the welcome when you have landed, or having to request permission to start causes a frown, anger, or simply a smile is up to the individual.

I doubt it stops you from visiting.

Flyingmac

18th Aug 2010, 10:56

I doubt it stops you from visiting.

It's stopped me and several others I know of.

BabyBear

18th Aug 2010, 12:10

Flyingmac, my reference was whether it stopped SAS, or not.

You are quite entitled to choose not to smile and allow the 'inconveniences' to get to you.

For me I choose to shrug my shoulders and go anyway.

Rod1

18th Aug 2010, 12:32

Oban is very convenient for Fuel. I was a regular visitor under Paul, but go in less now. I would not go in at all if it were not for the fuel. Why? I fly for fun and having to jump through lots of unnecessary bureaucracy and rules is not fun. If thre was a nearby strip with an arrangement to get mogas ;) I would probably avoid the place altogether.

Rod1

BabyBear

18th Aug 2010, 12:40

Can't help but think that a lot of the perceived inconvenience of the so called 'unnecessary bureaucracy' exists only in the minds of some (not suggesting in yours Rod1).

Sure the bureaucracy exists but how inconvenient can it make a landing and take off? Most of it does not have any impact on a light aircraft coming in and parking up for the occupants to nip down to the hotel for a spot of lunch.

Say again s l o w l y

18th Aug 2010, 12:42

It doesn't put me off at all, however, it puts others off which is a daft thing. Customers don't have to justify why they visit a place or buy a product, but the people in charge of any place would be very silly if they purposely did things that they knew annoyed their customer base. There are plenty of places to visit, so why bother going somewhere that you don't feel welcome?
Oban is nice, but you can see the sights without landing, so what is it that makes you want to actually land there? If you need fuel, that's one thing, but if you don't? Why bother?

I'll go for the Jammie Dodgers and the welcome from Paul, but for others it might be different. It's just stupid business practise to alienate some of your customers.

Council staff have often never worked in the real world and so customer service is a bit of an anathema to them much of the time. The mindset is to do things to suit them, rather than to help customers out or promote the business.

I hope they do read threads like this and learn from customer feedback. Everyone wants Oban to be a success. If it isn't, then despite all of the nonsense and waste that has gone before, we might lose it and that would be a tragedy. Pilots, the council and especially the staff there need it to be a success.
So forget the stupid rules and slavish devotion to them and get everyone acting like adults. Trust the customers not to be complete idiots, fix the idiocy of the displaced threshold and for christ's sake, stop being so officious when a pilot decides to use the full length of the runway. Afterall, all people are doing is making their take off and landing more likely to be safe. The displaced threshold increases the risk of an incident, not reduces it.

Anywhere that fills in numerous MOR's simply becuase of such a minor issue needs to have a good long look at itself. An MOR doesn't make anything safer. They are just a mechanism to report problems that then need to be fixed. Simply put, the filing of them shows that the people at the airfield don't understand what an MOR is or what they were designed to be used for.

However, it's typical backside covering council worker rubbish. "If I fill in the form, I can't be blamed" completely forgetting that by constantly sending in the forms you are admitting that the council and management is aware of the problem existing and then to not fix it makes you just as culpable in the event of an incident. The individual might not be culpable, but the company sure as hell is.

But hey, what do I know, I'm just a dumb piolet innit...

Maoraigh1

18th Aug 2010, 20:32

I was at Oban in July. Both Paul and all the airport staff were very welcoming. I wouldn't have known there was a problem if I didn't read PPRUNE. The rules are not made by the customer contact guys. (Including radio and phone contact). Argyll Council H&S have to be obeyed, or they risk their job.
If any of you visit unmanned Dornoch, read item 4 on the Highland Council notice, to get a real example of council H&S nonsense.

flybymike

18th Aug 2010, 22:46

The suspense is killing me Maoraigh. What does Item 4 actually say?

Capt Whisky Whisky

19th Aug 2010, 16:58

d. All arriving Crew/Passengers must walk directly to the terminal and report their intentions to Oban airpot staff. Directions will be given to those
needing to proceed elsewhere airside. No persons will be permitted to walk across the apron area unless heading directly to/from aircraft via
the terminal building.
e. All Crew/Passengers walking from H1 and H2 are required to use the designated walkway to/from the terminal. No persons will be permitted towalk across the apron area.

I think that you will find that these Peter Jackson instigated rules were part of the campaign to isolate Paul Keegan and show who was in charge! It drove PJ nuts to watch pilot after arriving pilot ignore the new shiny terminal building and proceed directly to the portacabin (and Jammy Dodgers)

WW

Dan the weegie

19th Aug 2010, 17:04

Unless I'm mistaken it's a notice to people flying kites that they're not allowed to drop anything from their kites such as sweets or bags of flour. It even quotes the ANO on this subject although in truth I was not aware the ANO applied to kite flying.

IIRC, although there may be another equally nonesense message.

Maoraigh1

19th Aug 2010, 20:40

"You must obtain permission from the C.A.A before dropping objects such as teddy bears, sweets etc."

Say again s l o w l y

19th Aug 2010, 22:54

You have got to be joking! That is brilliant. Right, who's up for a Far Eastern style kite battle and teddy bear bombing competition then? I've got a couple of kites here that I'm willing to sacrifice in the name of sticking two fingers up to stupid regulations.

mad_jock

20th Aug 2010, 08:17

This is all unconfirmed.

I think that stems from the RC boys dropping sweeties/teddy's for kids at summer BQ's

And as for the other stuff I think the pidgeon comp used to have flour bombing, balloon busting and toilet roll chopping. He that knows what he is doing from Perth showed folk how it really should be done and scared the hell outa some none aviators.

Again this is unconfirmed and could be rubbish. Although the last bit I wouldn't have minded seeing if it is true.

Capt Whisky Whisky

23rd Aug 2010, 19:12

Rumour has it, that during a CAA audit at Oban last week, the big fire tender failed to squirt and the Airfield was declared Fire Cat 0.

Any more info?

WW

mad_jock

23rd Aug 2010, 20:12

If its not in the NOTAMS they have taken action to solve the issue.

Christ that old heap in Perth they had to sacrifice a couple of chickens behind the greasy spoon before every inspection to make sure it would start.

These things happen it could be multiple issue from finger trouble to mechanical it really isn't an issue if its not in the NOTAM.

Capt Whisky Whisky

24th Aug 2010, 16:03

I guess you really had to be there:ok:

WW

mary meagher

23rd Sep 2010, 21:46

Or can anyone explain to me in less than 300 words just what is going on at Oban since I last visited, about 20 years ago?

blueandwhite

23rd Sep 2010, 21:54

Well ......

If you fly in ... there's a nice new terminal .... a few funny rules .... fuel is available from a nice man with tea and bikkys ... and everyone is very friendly to visitors.

and it can difficult to land on some local council airfields.

So not much to notice despite what appears on here.

Despite this none confrontational view - I definitely prefer my local field run being by a flying enthusiast, he knows what flyings about.

:ok:

bad bear

24th Sep 2010, 04:21

Mary, are you thinking of visiting with a tow plane? It could be a great place to have a gliding expedition. Fantastic soaring in an east wind with thermal and wave. The ridges are really good too. I hear Julie is flying the Islander there and she knows the area well from when there was wire launching there. A tug would open up great possibilities
bb

Say again s l o w l y

12th Oct 2010, 10:48

Has the fence been taken down yet?

madflyer26

12th Oct 2010, 12:05

The last time I looked out my window, which was this morning, the fence was still present and erect.

Say again s l o w l y

12th Oct 2010, 12:29

So the meeting between the council and the club didn't get it sorted then!

We'll see what the CAA say then, since they've given the Airfield until November to get it sorted out.

mad_jock

12th Oct 2010, 13:19

Whats going to happen if they don't get it shifted?

Might it go back to the old days of unlicensed?

Turn the terminal into a tea room or my preference a sit down fish and chip shop?

Say again s l o w l y

12th Oct 2010, 13:32

I don't know to be honest. All I can tell is that the CAA aren't very happy with the situation, I doubt they'll remove the licence, but you never know.

I don't think it would matter anyway, with George's mob doing the flying anyway, he doesn't need the licence at Oban anyway, I'm not sure how that would work for the PSO funding though.

mad_jock

12th Oct 2010, 19:12

Why on earth will it grow?

It will never be a IFR airport. It will only ever have a cloud break procedure.

No company will ever start operating there unless its a PSO.

The GA will increase again if they got rid of the current restrictions but to believe that oban will ever become anything more than a GA strip plus ocassional small jet visiting is in cloud cuckoo land.

Johnm

12th Oct 2010, 19:43

Oban used to work very satisfactorily as a GA airport, attracting a good deal of private traffic and serving the Islands.

Given its catchment and geographical position that is all it will ever be. So adding the investment and the bureaucracy and reducing its accessibility is unlikely to be a recipe for success.

The new boy's rant suggests some level of vested interest.

I feel quite sorry for Paul Keegan and the airport staff who have been mixed a most unpalatable bottle by the politicians. Despite that, they supply a good service with good humour in my experience.

Rules that serve no useful purpose are not to be celebrated.

madflyer26

12th Oct 2010, 21:56

Scotflyer,

Log off and don't return to this thread until you have an objective argument to pose. Paul knows what he is doing which is more than can be said for the local authority.

Say again s l o w l y

12th Oct 2010, 23:02

Gents, no need to feed the troll. We all know the history and nonsense that has gone on and I'm betting that many of us can nail down the identity of this latest wind up attempt without need to track the IP address.

So just ignore.

bad bear

13th Oct 2010, 05:20

Has anyone looked at how much money touring aeroplanes spend on B&B, meals, beers etc. If the airport does not need to be licenced why waste the money on being licenced? On the financial front it might be better to become unlicenced and allow more touring planes and the odd gliding expedition. 20 or so glider pilots basing themselves there for a week or so would bring in good money to local business. Carlisle has hosted several gliding expeditions and brought in good income for the local pubs, restraunts and B&Bs as well as hundreds of pounds in landing fees. The odd islander flight could be fitted in easily.
One small gliding club not far away extimates its visitors contribute £1.4m to the local community, I guess this would exceed the benefit the airport brings in to Oban? (And no one had to spend millions to make it happen) Many people underestimate the benefit GA brings to local business, its not just big aeroplanes (Islander???)that bring money to the area.
bb

Say again s l o w l y

13th Oct 2010, 10:46

As per usual, the answer is that it would be better for everyone if all of the nonsense and in-fighting went away and that everyone was made to feel more welcome.

It's not that anyone is nasty, but silly things like getting reported for landing short (which we could debate until the cows come home) and the general bad feeling that has been left by the entire debacle means that the airport and everyone there is suffering.

In regard to the licence and how important it'd be, then I think the main problem is the availability of the PSO funding. Without a scheduled service, then the money disappears. Without a licensed airfield, you cannot usually have a scheduled service, but as the CAA have said to me in the past. they take every route and case on it's merit. The service might not need a licensed strip. Afterall, directflight seem to manage alright.

mad_jock

13th Oct 2010, 10:52

the islanders in Orkney and Shetland have been operating out of unlicensed strips for years

Say again s l o w l y

13th Oct 2010, 11:14

Exactly, it isn't necessarily a critical thing.

NorthSouth

13th Oct 2010, 12:52

MJ:It will only ever have a cloud break procedureAnd it's highly unlikely ever to be a published procedure. Does Hebridean/did Highland have a company-only procedure along these lines?

the islanders in Orkney and Shetland have been operating out of unlicensed strips for years Small point, but the Orkney strips have always been licensed. Most of the Shetland ones aren't and have never been.

As regards The Fence, the next AIRAC cycle (18 Nov) contains a new aerodrome chart for Oban with the correct displaced threshold for 01 depicted. Unfortunately it seems to me that the declared distances in the AIP text are now all wrong. Then again, maybe they were never right.

They've also decided that the runway's 3 metres longer than it used to be.:confused:

NS

airpolice

13th Oct 2010, 13:20

Why is it so hard for Oban to be legal and yet as relaxed as Cumbernauld?

Seesm to me that one of them is doing things that are not required or not doing things that are. You don't hear any of this whinging about CBN.
(I have my own issues with Kenny and innapropriate r/t, but maybe that's just me.)

CBN is always a joy to visit, a seamless operation, park wherever it will not cause a problem to others, it is assumed that you know you should not walk on to the runway etc. etc. so everyone mangaes just fine.

I think there are more Airside users at CBN than Oban and yet they all seem to rub along fine without erecting fences or getting lawyers involved.

mad_jock

13th Oct 2010, 13:22

Not sure if there were company charts.

I should imagine Logie Ambulance crews had one though, they seemed to have ones for every strip in scotland. Some of them even made use of marine buoys to get in.

Say again s l o w l y

13th Oct 2010, 14:20

airpolice, I can promise you that it isn't just you! Kenny and I have always got along well, but he does have his days occasionally... Mind you, I'm sure he used to say the same about me too!

NorthSouth

13th Oct 2010, 14:49

Then again non-standard R/T was common at Oban even before the Cooncil got their hands on the mike switch.

CAP 413: "Report when..."
Paul K: "Gi'e me a wee call when..."

All part of the charm!

NS

NorthSouth

13th Oct 2010, 15:29

I've just noticed that Oban is now listed on the Met Office's TAFs and METARs pages. No actual TAF or METAR available, but is this the start of regular reporting? Could be very useful.
NS

mary meagher

13th Oct 2010, 20:30

Did somebody mention a fence? is it across the runway? at the end of the runway, or beside the runway, in parallel?

When some of the users fell out at Enstone, a fence appeared beside the runway, in parallel, and it wasn't long before somebody wrapped it around his aeroplane......

So they repainted the center stripe offcentre, down the official runway, to give a bit more clearance, as the fence is still there. And to make it a licensed airfield, however as training is now permitted at an UNlicensed airfield, they have decided to forget the formalities and just let the users get on with it. But Enstone is owned by the local farmer, not the local authority. Much better arrangement, usually....

Gelande Strasse

27th Oct 2010, 14:56

So A&B Council have proposed that three local primary schools, Connel, Ardchattan and Barcaldine, are to close at the end of the current school year (30th June 2011).

"Argyll and Bute Council aims to allocate its resources in a way that ensures the quality of all its services......"

It's not going to be very difficult to see how local council tax payers are going to react to that!

GS

Captain Smithy

27th Oct 2010, 17:09

I wouldn't read too much into that GS. The state as a whole is fceked - if the whole Governmental system of the UK was a business it would've been wound up and buried long ago.

Not to worry though. Coonsillurs are fantastic at being able to find ways to waste cash on pet projects even in times of financial hardship. My dim-witted local authority (Nationalists and Liberals - bloody typical :ugh:) keeps whining that they're skint but can still magic from nowhere several tens of millions to build a toy tram set to bugger up the traffic flow in the middle of Edinburgh. :ugh:

Oban Airport is probably the same. Its a pet project so it will be protected at all costs... even if they have to shut all of A & B's hospitals, schools, care homes etc. first... :suspect:

Smithy

mad_jock

27th Oct 2010, 17:39

keeps whining that they're skint but can still magic from nowhere several tens of millions to build a toy tram set to bugger up the traffic flow in the middle of Edinburgh

Aye but in entertainment value alone for the rest of Scotland its going to be worth every penny.

dont overfil

27th Oct 2010, 19:00

Did they not invent an improvement to trams in the 1950s. They were called trolley buses and they didn't need tracks.
Don't get me started.
Anyway Oban is wonderful and I don't depend on A&B cooncil for anything else.
DO.

Captain Smithy

28th Oct 2010, 06:33

Aye but in entertainment value alone for the rest of Scotland its going to be worth every penny.

Absolutely. And the rest of Scotland is paying for most of it... :\

Hopefully will re-visit Oban soon, if we get some half-decent Wx.

Smithy

jaycee46

28th Oct 2010, 09:44

And there was me thinking that they were digging up the old tram lines!

Captain Smithy

28th Oct 2010, 10:22

Nah. They just needed some excuse for random long-term roadworks to horrendously bugger up the traffic flow in the city. All part of Das Koonsil's holy war against the evil motorist ya see. :hmm:

Anyway enough of that. Back to the important stuff. I see that Oban now has METARs :ok: Anyone know when we're getting TAFs?

Good idea I think.

fisbangwollop

28th Oct 2010, 10:53

Anyone know when we're getting TAFs?

I would say the weather around Oban is too localised and changes it's mind like a women :(.....better chance of picking the winning lottery numbers ;) Have a quick look at the synoptic chart, make a decision to go then call me " Scottish Info" as soon as on the way and I will check out the latest weather for you :cool:

mad_jock

28th Oct 2010, 16:42

Anyone know when we're getting TAFs?

As with any important airfield information ask the refueler.

It might not be in ICAO legal format but I suspect it will be a hellva lot closer to what the wx will do in Oban than what some bloke in Metoffice gets spat out his computer.

airpolice

28th Oct 2010, 16:45

TAF for Oban valid from 28OCT2010 until 15MAR2011

RAIN

flybymike

28th Oct 2010, 17:06

Spot on for accuracy.:):D:ok:

Captain Smithy

29th Oct 2010, 08:21

Perhaps the Met Office should bin that bonkers computer that keeps getting the weather forecast so horrendously wrong and the gobbledegook ICAO TAF format and just employ airpolice to produce the TAFs. Much easier to produce and understand, cheaper and vastly more reliable and accurate. :ok:

airpolice

29th Oct 2010, 08:26

We do a human redable and more detailed version.

Oban has three distinct phases of weather; described below.

It is either

Raining,

Just about to start Raining

or

Just stopped Raining, for a wee while.

Captain Smithy

29th Oct 2010, 09:27

Or, alternatively, in simplistic terms - Good, Alright and Pish.

"Pish" obviously implies IMC and/or high winds.

mad_jock

29th Oct 2010, 10:17

You need a 4th TAF status "minging"

Captain Smithy

29th Oct 2010, 10:54

Would "minging" not be a subcatagory of "Pish"?

bingofuel

29th Oct 2010, 10:59

At this rate you will need to publish a 'decode' list for those unfamiliar with the local terminology

fisbangwollop

29th Oct 2010, 11:04

OK the new Oban TAF decode as follows.........

Scots, like the rest of the UK, talk a lot about the weather. This hardly surprising - as the hoary old joke so accurately says "If you don't like the weather in Scotland, wait half an hour and it will change". On a "dreich" (wet, dismal) day there may not be a blink of sun and on others it may be "mochie" (warm and damp) and on still others a "simmer cowt" (a heat haze). Of course rain is often a feature ranging from a thunder "plump" (down-pour of rain) making everyone "drookit" (drenched) and producing lots of "dubs" (puddles) and will go into a "burn" (small stream or brook). There may be a more gentle "smirr" (light rain) or there may be an East Coast "haar" (mist from the sea). In winter time, when there are "wreaths" (drifts of snow) and the "snell" (bitingly cold) wind makes everone "fair jeelit" (cold as ice) at least the children can enjoy skiting (sliding) on the ice in a "hunker-slide" (sliding in a crouched position).

It is not always "rainin' auld wives and pipe staples" (heavy rain) or a "pish-oot" (a down-pour) with a "sump" (a great fall of rain). Then again there can be a "thunder-plump" (sudden thunder shower) or a "gandiegow" (heavy shower). Of course, sometimes the weather is just "plowtery" (showery) with a "smirr" (very light rain) or a "dreep" (steady fall of light rain) or a "dribble" (drizzle). Along with the rain it can be "attery" (stormy) with a "blenter" or "flaff" (gusty wind) . The "tousle" (blustery) wind can often feel "snell" (biting). All this wind and rain can produce a "linn" (a torrent or waterfall) and can make us all "droukit" (drenched) and "draggled" (bedraggled) and feel "dowie" (dismal) as we trudge through the "glaur" (mud/mire) or a "sclutter" or "slaister" (messy wetness). The rain may create a "stank" (small stagnant water) while in Glasgow the "stank" is the storm drain in the street. In Perth, the storm drain is called a "condie" (derived, it is said, from the French "conduire"). Then again it may just be "grulie" (unsettled) or even "leesome" (fine) with a "pirl" (gentle breeze). And after the next "plype" (sudden heavy shower) there may even be a "watergow" (a fragmentary rainbow!).

Whatever the weather Oban still a fine place to visit!:cool::cool::cool:

mad_jock

29th Oct 2010, 11:50

Nah Capt.

Pish is just normal wx on the West coast.

Minging is light the fire open the booze cupboard. Text your mate who is due to land in a couple of hours time to tell him he has a Alton Towers approach to look forward to. Then kick back and wait for a text from him calling you a :mad: and saying he has diverted to Aberdeen and is currently in a Taxi heading towards Kieth.

Mind you I can't think of many better places to be when the wx is minging than sitting in the Harbour Inn watching the locals get rat arsed.

Mike Cross

29th Oct 2010, 12:30

If you prefer your TAF/METAR in (more or less readable) English try this Google Map. (Google Chrome is quickest)
Map of METAR & TAF (http://www.joinaopa.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=62&Itemid=206)

flybymike

29th Oct 2010, 15:38

Aaaaarrrggghhhh.......Mike please dont post that link again without warning IE users that it will completely stall their computer during the interminable download,...:mad:

Captain Smithy

29th Oct 2010, 15:58

FBW :D

I stand corrected MJ. On that basis I agree to the implementation of a fourth status of "minging".

Edit: Latest METAR for home base. A good example of "Minging" I think.

EGPH 291920Z 24024G35KT 9999 -DZ SCT012 BKN030 09/08 Q0976 :uhoh:

Mike Cross

30th Oct 2010, 09:31

Aaaaarrrggghhhh.......Mike please dont post that link again without warning IE users that it will completely stall their computer during the interminable download,..
Sorry about that. IE for some reason is very slow with Google Maps. We know what the fix is, it's just that we'll have to hack someone else's code to make it happen. It doesn't speed up IE, but it means you display less markers, with more revealing themselves as you zoom in.

Mike

airpolice

30th Oct 2010, 09:31

This is a work in progress, not just for Oban but for Scotland in general

feel free to contribute but my thoughts so far are along the line sof the met office clouds instead of octas

As we have started on Oban, the definitions urr given in Weegie Speak

Smashin = in between Scorchio & Pure (Dead) Brilliant

Nice = in between Awright (man) & No Rainin

Pish = in between [Light Precipitation] & Pishin it Doon

minging = in between Stoatin Doon & Biblical

mad_jock

30th Oct 2010, 13:22

Nah Capt that's no minging, actually quite pleasant day for the likes of Sumburgh and the Western Isles. So for a highlands pilot that would would be classified as nice ( I have sent students solo in that)

But a will give you dispensation because your a soft lowland poof to call it pish.

We have now covered the states of it peeing down.

Now we need to cover wind speed /direction and temperature.

So say a Oban METAR in the middle of winter would be

Its Minging blowing gale on ya ear and its farkin Baltic.

Which in ICAO would be

EGEO (time group) 10045G55 RVR 0400 +RA BK 007 OVC 010 02/00M Q0999

Actually is there a code for that crap that gets hurled off the sea. H'mm we would need a code for bits of seaweed and plastic rubbish.

airpolice

30th Oct 2010, 19:30

0 Nae wind at aw
0-5 stirrin the stoor
6-14 lift yer kilt up
15-25 Blaw the washin aff the line
26-35 Mair wind than Tommy Sheridan
36+ Who stole the windsock?

Captain Smithy

31st Oct 2010, 16:50

Very well MJ. I'm moving up to the Heelans in a few weeks so I shall toughen up from a "soft lowland poof" to a Heelander in time. After a few weeks a 36Kt wind shall be but a breeze. :uhoh:

aipolice - "Mair Wind Than Tommy Sheridan" - think that would require a bit more than 35KT. Perhaps should be reserved for severe winds only, e.g. >50KT.

Or perhaps heavy rain - "Mair Pish than Alex Salmond"

Smithy

mad_jock

31st Oct 2010, 20:55

well southern poof where ya moving to? should be home in 4 weeks if ya want a proper check out like. And i am no meaning how far your sphinxter stretches like them southern FI's

flybymike

31st Oct 2010, 23:34

sphinxter

Is that the a*sehole of a sphinx?

pasptoo

31st Oct 2010, 23:58

EGEO (time group) 10045G55 RVR 0400 +RA BK 007 OVC 010 02/00M Q0999

Actually is there a code for that crap that gets hurled off the sea. H'mm we would need a code for bits of seaweed and plastic rubbish.

but an easterly gale won't bring debris off the Oban beach, unless it's recirc?

Don't forget to add the colour state GREY to the METAR for most of the west coast.

Pas.

Captain Smithy

1st Nov 2010, 08:45

And i am no meaning how far your sphinxter stretches like them southern FI's

Glad to hear it. :uhoh: :yuk:

Going to Inverness btw.

Smithy

airpolice

1st Nov 2010, 08:54

Smiffy, they choochters pure don't say By The Way in Inverness so they don't. That's a weegie expression so it is, n'that.

You're gonnae need fur tae learn how to speak jockinese if yer wantin fur tae no look like a furrynirr when yer gittin therr, so ye urr.

Say again s l o w l y

1st Nov 2010, 09:06

Smithy, do you find sheep attractive? If you don't, you soon will...

airpolice

1st Nov 2010, 09:09

Smithy, don't worry about SAS, he's talking about female sheep, nothing kinky.

airpolice

1st Nov 2010, 09:51

I wonder if the fence at Oban is to keep the Sheep from escaping.

I know it's been a wee while since we mentioned The Fence, but we are back on it now, or not, as it were.

Captain Smithy

1st Nov 2010, 10:24

Think I'll give the sheep a miss thanks. :eek:

Is the fence still there? I noticed when I checked the NOTAMs the other day the NOTAM about the runway length wasn't on the system anymore.

Smithy

Captain Smithy

1st Nov 2010, 10:48

It's a nice day. 119.87's probably a bit busy...:ok:

dont overfil

1st Nov 2010, 11:12

I hear that a Rolling Stones tribute band are playing in Inversneckie next week.
My favourite track is "Hey McLeod get offa ma' ewe."
DO.

madflyer26

1st Nov 2010, 12:33

The fence is still there, no change to the situation.

Regards

MF

NorthSouth

1st Nov 2010, 12:36

I noticed when I checked the NOTAMs the other day the NOTAM about the runway length wasn't on the system anymoreThat's because they've (supposedly) incorporated all its requirements into the AIP now. But see post #655.
NS

Captain Smithy

1st Nov 2010, 14:43

Cheers NS. Missed that. Did they re-measure the pavement then? :hmm: :ugh:

fisbangwollop

1st Nov 2010, 16:11

OK back to the Oban weather...by the looks of the latest Notam they are expecting some wind!!!

Q) EGPX/QFWAS/V/M/A/000/999/5628N00524W005
B) FROM: 10/10/30 13:45C) TO: 10/11/15 00:00
E) SOUTHERN WINDSLEEVE TEMPORARILY REMOVED. L4926/10

NorthSouth

1st Nov 2010, 17:39

Did they re-measure the pavement then?Yeah but with a different size of shoe ;)
NS

Captain Smithy

1st Nov 2010, 18:01

Heh heh!

I wouldn't know FBW. There aren't any TAFs yet for Oban... :hmm:

fisbangwollop

2nd Nov 2010, 10:13

Just done my Jeppesen VFR Flight guide ammendments.
A new page for Oban wef 29/10/10 gives

RW 01 TORA 702 LDA 782
RW19 TORA 842 LDA 642

RW Dimension 1263x30

Capt Whisky Whisky

2nd Nov 2010, 10:49

RW 01 TORA 702 LDA 782
RW19 TORA 842 LDA 642

Not bad for £9m :)

WW

NorthSouth

2nd Nov 2010, 13:38

Between £15,000 and £21,000 for every metre you can't use any more :)

NS

maxred

2nd Nov 2010, 13:40

Guess thats MOL'S plan for the STOL 737-800 knackered then:rolleyes:

Captain Smithy

2nd Nov 2010, 14:05

Perhaps. Unless he decides to suppliment the 738 fleet with some old DHC Twotters.

Well at least the runway's nice and smooth... :cool:

maxred

2nd Nov 2010, 14:25

Business opportunity then:\ Fly all the hundreds from the Argyll hub, to the Central hubs:ok:
Now where did I read that business plan before???????????????..........

maxred

2nd Nov 2010, 14:34

I may have posted this before, but I was standing enjoying a cup of tea and a jammy dodger, with PK, when local resident turns up, and enquired as to when the first RYR flights would start?:hmm:We both turned at looked at 'the hill', and said when they move that, we can talk. Resident then asks when the work would be completed???? Very quickly the reponse was that no VOR/ILS had been included in the budget, therefore unlikely that even when hill moved, the flights would commence:rolleyes:Bemused local resident retires to car stating he had read all about it in local rag:D

Truly astonishing

mad_jock

2nd Nov 2010, 14:47

It really wouldn't suprise me if the locals had been told that.

And they would be that chuffed with thinking that they would be able to go abroad (Any where south of the rest and be thankfull or past Fort William) without a multiple hour car drive. And what ever the council spent it would be a money well spent.

You can be assured though that when RYR doesn't pitch up it will be because they couldn't strike a deal over fuel prices.

tarnish26

2nd Nov 2010, 15:06

There should soon be more money available from the council budget to clear that hill so I can get my G IV in.

Argyll and Bute looks to close 26 schools - The Oban Times Newspaper (http://www.obantimes.co.uk/news/view/argyll_and_bute_looks_to_close_26_schools/)

Captain Smithy

2nd Nov 2010, 15:13

Well don't say I didn't tell you. It's a Cooncil pet project, a toy if you will, so it will get money flung at it at all costs ;)

Some folk are so daft, they'd believe anything in the papers. 737s at Oban! Bugger me. :ugh:

Smithy

mad_jock

2nd Nov 2010, 15:49

These lowlanders just can't help themselves.

Locals could have got confused with some of the 737 circuits that folk are doing there.

dont overfil

2nd Nov 2010, 17:01

I don't see the problem. I can get a light 737 airborne and down and stopped on Perths runway 21 ( on the simulator).
Ah! Forgot about the displaced threshold.
DO.

silverknapper

3rd Nov 2010, 14:42

Well done to the aero club. That's three potential charters next month cancelled due to this fence saga. You may think you are making some grand point, and I'm sure in your own very very small minds you are. However tell that to the hoteliers, restaurant owners and local businesses who now won't have a group of 45 reasonably well off people spend a week, and plenty of cash, in your area. I'm sure they will be interested in your petty squabbling about who blames who. Ultimately whoever put up the fence is costing your area a lot of money. In close season too. :ugh::D:ugh:

NorthSouth

3rd Nov 2010, 15:11

three potential charters next month cancelled...a group of 45 reasonably well off peopleI'd be interested to know what aircraft which can take 15 pax was involved - Beech 1900? Metro? J31? They'd have been struggling on the pre-fence TODA of 1064 or 1141 metres.
NS

maxred

3rd Nov 2010, 15:16

Two of Georges Islanders, strapped together by elastic band:\Still a seat short mind you:confused:

airpolice

3rd Nov 2010, 15:17

NorthSouth,

This is a long running Oban International Airport bashing thread which has managed fine up until now without you sticking facts in to the fray.

Please don't spoil anything by pointing out any more of this, otherwise we'll end up with folk from the airport telling the truth about stuff!

Then where will we be?

Let's all get back to watching for a hotel going bust so we can blame that on the club instead of making the bankers the bad guys in all this.

AP

tarnish26

3rd Nov 2010, 15:19

Silvernapper....best thing the council can do is un-licence the airfield then we can all go back to the good old days......maybe then I could squeeze the Citation in and keep the local's happy once more ..:*

silverknapper

3rd Nov 2010, 16:01

NS

Not everyone arriving by aircraft. You're interest is kindly noted.

mad_jock

3rd Nov 2010, 16:04

How much twin engined traffic did they have before being licensed?

And what aircraft types used it?

O aye you could get 13-15 in and out using a J41 with 1650 engines.

J31 5-6 sound about right silvernapper?

Captain Smithy

3rd Nov 2010, 17:26

Never mind. When they get the approach Radar, the second terminal and the 10,000' runway extension (splitting the hill in two offering one of Scotland's most "unique" approaches) there will be no such worries. I await the sound of 757s thundering in over the skies of Argyll full of excited American tourists with bated breath :rolleyes:

P.S. Not bashing, merely jesting. :cool:

Smithy

airpolice

3rd Nov 2010, 17:53

Not everyone arriving by aircraft

It'll be like something out of Mrs. Brown.

All the servants will go by horse, with the luggage.

the approach Radar, the second terminal and the 10,000' runway extension

At which point EasyJet start services from there calling it Glasgow North.

mad_jock

3rd Nov 2010, 18:06

Thats quite common with charter.

You get GV's turning up and pax will get a ramp transfer to waiting helicopter. Then a fleet of range rovers driven by blokes in tweed and britches will drive the luggage/nanny's etc to were ever they are going.

QEC

3rd Nov 2010, 18:19

This shot taken at Oban on 12th September 2010, the aircraft departed to Manchester -

http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/8800/oban.jpg (http://img813.imageshack.us/i/oban.jpg/)

Jan Olieslagers

3rd Nov 2010, 19:13

Two of Georges Islanders, strapped together by elastic band

After the Trislander, here comes the Quadslander!

maxred

3rd Nov 2010, 19:42

Do not jest, there may well be one in the hanger.:ok:Helicopter ops bring Reports do they not? Or was that the seaplane again:sad:

Must be time for the second terminal, is not time for the annual Euro budget round? Another £9m please things got busier, wot with 3 charters bring 45 souls in.

Captain Smithy

4th Nov 2010, 07:15

At which point EasyJet start services from there calling it Glasgow North.

Would it not be Glasgow Oban, a la "London Oxford"?

Smithy :\

NorthSouth

4th Nov 2010, 10:25

Not everyone arriving by aircraftHmmm. Does then seem ever so slightly disingenuous to blame the fence-erectors for the loss to the Argyll economy of people who would have been arriving by road/rail/sea. And I think we'd have to see some evidence that these 45 people didn't come to Argyll at all because some of them chose to arrive via a charter operator that didn't have the right equipment to use the airport.

Anyway, I'm sure the Council will have marketed the airport to charter operators who can use the reduced distances, and they direct any inquiries to those operators. ;)

As to the various posts re aircraft types:
1) clearly Do228 has no problem with the reduced distances
2) J41? With a departure on 01 (TODA/ASDA 1064 metres) and engine failure at V1, doing an immediate left turn once airborne to avoid the hill? I'd love to see a J41 Operations Manual that allows that.

NS

Capt Whisky Whisky

6th Nov 2010, 16:41

I'm sure the Council will have marketed the airport

Ahahahahahahahahahhahaha!

WW

mad_jock

6th Nov 2010, 17:56

It would have the same issues as any twin turbo prop.

You would never get a commercial load in or out though.

maxred

6th Nov 2010, 18:15

The honorable gentleman did not realise that OBAN INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT had the full resources of Argyll cooncil marketing department on hand for just such matters.:\
Indeed valued resources were pulled from the 'Lets Get The Fuel Operator Out' marketing team, to 'Lets attempt some larger charter operators who operate Dorniers:ok:

NorthSouth

7th Nov 2010, 16:45

Or, they could woo some charter operator that doesn't have the right kind of aircraft but might buy some in future. Oh no sorry I forgot, they tried that.:rolleyes:
NS

airpolice

7th Nov 2010, 18:44

Perhaps if ABC were not so cash strapped at the moment they would already have constructed a 1,200 place car park and a 300 bed hotel beside their International Airport.

Obviously they don't need all that infrastructure at Oban just now, but that's what is holding the local economy back. Once the hotel and car parking complex is in place, the West of Scotland will become the new Docklands, or something.

The investment in the Airport will spur aircraft designers on to great things and it is surely only a few years until we see 150 seat jets capable of operating from what's left of the runway.

Oldpilot55

7th Nov 2010, 21:09

This might work.....

http://www.helis.com/h/rotodyn_p2.jpg

Capt Whisky Whisky

11th Nov 2010, 09:38

eharding

11th Nov 2010, 10:27

WTF?

Fury as islander calls for sea eagle cull - The Daily Record (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2010/11/07/fury-as-islander-calls-for-sea-eagle-cull-86908-22699197/?sms_ss=email&at_xt=4cd966312eb68b62,0)

WW

Tricky....very tricky.

On the one hand, the thrill of seeing one of these magnificent creatures on the wing, in the natural splendour of the islands, is a powerful force in bringing visitors to the area, and all of the associated benefits to the island economy.

On the other hand....Tobermory-Fried Sea Eagle - tender pieces of free-range Sea Eagle, lovingly coated in a secret blend of herbs and spices, and then deep-fried in lard produced from local cattle....mmmmmmmmmmmm. Scrumptious.

Genghis the Engineer

11th Nov 2010, 10:43

I remember flying a sea eagle off my arm on a falconry course once. Fascinating beast, and huge, with very sharp talons.

But carrying off a child? No, just not big enough. And there's plenty of experience to know that birds of prey are quite capable of staying out of the way of light aeroplanes - just come and fly out of Booker, with its large local population of only slightly smaller Red Kites, to see that.

(Yes, okay, a newborn lamb weighs about the same as a newborn child, but lambs are wandering about on their own immediately, humans are much bigger before they are doing that.)

And I think if I lived within a community supported by a mix of agriculture and tourism, I'd be celebrating anything that brings tourists and lives off rabbits !

G

Say again s l o w l y

11th Nov 2010, 10:58

WTF?

Fury as islander calls for sea eagle cull - The Daily Record

WW

Has someone been at the antifreeze again?

ak7274

11th Nov 2010, 11:12

Calling Glenforsa an Airport is almost as laughable as the Baby snatching claim.

good morning

11th Nov 2010, 11:57

Seems they nipped over to Oban and nicked some of the fire cover! Reducing to Cat 1 I believe.
Airport operation going out to tender apparently so that'll increase the dole queue.

Captain Smithy

11th Nov 2010, 12:43

Hope this is NOTAMed. Can't have visitors' babies being wheechted away from terrified Mums and Dads as soon as they step out of the family Cessna upon arrival on the ramp at the airport (sic) eh :rolleyes:

WTF indeed

Smithy

NorthSouth

11th Nov 2010, 14:40

What time of day did they interview him? :)

NS

mrmum

11th Nov 2010, 15:25

Can't have visitors' babies being wheechted away from terrified Mums and Dads as soon as they step out of the family Cessna upon arrival on the ramp at the airport

Then the council needs to invest some more public money on a few airbridges, to link all the arriving aircraft directly to the terminal.:E
This will also have the added bonus of preventing customers from going to the refueller for unauthorised jammy dodgers, rather than reporting directly to the airport jobsworths as mandated in their AIP entry, wouldn't need hi-viz then either:eek:. You would think they would actually be able to spell the word "airpoRt" though, wouldn't you.:ugh:

EGEO AD 2.20 — LOCAL TRAFFIC REGULATIONS
1. Airport Regulations

c. High visibility jackets mandatory whilst airside.
d. All arriving Crew/Passengers must walk directly to the terminal and report their intentions to Oban airpot staff. Directions will be given to those
needing to proceed elsewhere airside. No persons will be permitted to walk across the apron area unless heading directly to/from aircraft via
the terminal building.
e. All Crew/Passengers walking from H1 and H2 are required to use the designated walkway to/from the terminal. No persons will be permitted to
walk across the apron area.

NorthSouth

6th Dec 2010, 17:26

Issued by the council today:

Argyll & Bute Council are required to re-tender the operation of the Schedules flights routes from Oban to Coll, Tiree and Colonsay and the operation of the three of their airports at Oban, Coll, and Colonsay. The scheduled flights were previously tendered during the summer of 2010 but deemed unaffordable for the Council. The decision has therefore been taken to return to market with a fresh tender, encompassing the whole operation, including the PSO and the management of the airports at Oban, Colonsay and Coll.

Phil Space

6th Dec 2010, 19:01

Back to square one springs to mind as a logical cheap solution but maybe that is too obvious.

Say again s l o w l y

6th Dec 2010, 19:07

Now who can I think of who has the ability to provide the Id=slanders and who also has experience of running a licensed airfield...

NorthSouth

6th Dec 2010, 21:03

Now who can I think of who has the ability to provide the Id=slanders and who also has experience of running a licensed airfield...Errm, let me think. The same person who is running The scheduled flights which were previously tendered during the summer of 2010 but deemed unaffordable for the Councilperhaps?

But presumably, having tied themselves up with far too many Council employees running the airport, and now considering privatisation, the new contractor will be bound by TUPE and will not therefore be able to run it/them in the efficient way they could have been from the start.

Still, it would be fun to hear Kenny on the end of the radio at Oban!

NS

Say again s l o w l y

6th Dec 2010, 21:10

Oh blimey...

Well at least you could guarantee that you'd never be pinged for landing a bit short if King Kenny was in the tower!

Could you imagine if he and Paul had to work together... I could hear the explosion from here!

flybymike

6th Dec 2010, 23:40

Well this latest announcement should be good for another 750 posts or so...

NorthSouth

7th Dec 2010, 07:26

Anyone know about the previous tender in the summer which led to the council deciding it was unaffordable? Cap'n WW?

I'm not sure what the council thinks is going to change when they re-advertise the tender. And if they do end up giving the contract to someone who will run it along the lines suggested by many in these esteemed columns, how will they explain that to the Argyll ratepayers?

Also, does anyone know if the council has revealed any of the passenger statistics for the Oban services? They have chosen, no doubt for their own good reasons, not to report them to the CAA.

NS

xrayalpha

7th Dec 2010, 15:09

Was the previous tender the one that didn't fit in the garage ;-)

maxred

7th Dec 2010, 19:41

The TENDER that is:cool:
Was the previous tender not the one that was completed when Highland went pop, and it was certain lowland operators who put in the frightening cost of actually running the operation.and trying to make a bob or two. The current operator of the service was brought in as an emergency solution to the larger problem of having zero flights from the newly constructed International Airport.:\
The mission is doomed, given the non sensical costings utilised to make the project 'viable'. Any tender would involve a massive cash right off - NON, and how would that be explained to the Eurofund who gave a lot of the money in da first place:sad:.That was to be repaid at some stage me thinks.

I watch with amusement:D
NS they cannot give the numbers because they would then be ordered to give the cash back