Oban/Glenforsa News

[PH-UKU]

Yup. Over all too quickly, but what tremendous fun. Can't wait for the photos.

Thanks to everyone for making it happen - at Oban, on the strip, off the strip ;), in the bar (cheers B+A), the restaurant, the caravan :} and in the air :D

Highlights for me ... ? Almost too many to mention .... but two that stand out were the photo-shoot on Saturday, and looping the RV8 over the Sound of Mull :ok:

Roll on next time :ok:

[Human Factor]

Yep. Tremendous fun. Life's a beach!!:cool:

[Say again s l o w l y]

Ahhhhhh B*gger! I was stuck on a family holiday in Italy and couldn't make it........Glad you all had a good time!

[The Original GF]

Can't wait for the photos


http://gi96.photobucket.com/groups/l162/H8N03LPY7X/DSC_0047.jpg?t=1241463480

[The Original GF]

http://gi96.photobucket.com/groups/l162/H8N03LPY7X/DSC_0039.jpg?t=1241463850

[The Original GF]

http://gi96.photobucket.com/groups/l162/H8N03LPY7X/DSC_0042.jpg?t=1241464054

[Stelladog]

Yup. Over all too quickly, but what tremendous fun. Can't wait for the photos


Are you sure?

http://gi96.photobucket.com/groups/l162/H8N03LPY7X/Streak2-1.jpg?t=1241517790

[TheGorrilla]

:eek::eek::eek:

[Fly-by-Wife]

Now that's just added a whole new meaning to taking off on a grass strip!

FBW

[Cows getting bigger]

Needs a shave.......

[Ben Doonigan]

Looks as if it was VERY cold ... ;)

[eharding]

I understand that Sasquatch investigators from the US are descending on Glenforsa as we speak, after this rare sighting of a wild, hairy, proto-human figure was captured on camera.

It appears to be holding a pint of guiness aloft, about a third of the way down the line from the right, hidden behind the the crowd laughing at the Boeing driver in the foreground (bringing a new perspective to the acronym "Buff").

Another vintage Glenforsa trip. We'll be back.....soon.

[mad_jock]

Its a good job the midgies wern't out yet or it could have been a nasty case of spotted dick.

Good to see some GA that is what we all know and love.

Sorry to come back to the haggis stuffed chicken but did anyone have it?

And did Mr E have the 3 of them toasted oat things with cream.

This morning some heathern bastard served me up hot dog sausages with meat balls and scrambled eggs which looked like cheese cake on :mad:ing rye bread, some of the most disgusting bacon which I have ever seen in my life. And called it a cooked breakfast. Didn't help the FO and I was the only people without a pint at 6:30 in the morning. It produced such an effect the FO had to hand control over in the approach because there was serious danger he thought he was going to follow through or loose contact with the rudder pedals with the fart that was brewing.

Looking at the pictures all can think is that everyone had black pudding, tattie scones, fried eggs, proper link, decent bacon, bake beans and a decent cup of tea for breakfast. And not dog sausages or porridge with sodding raspberries stirred though it.

Jesus I need to get home.

Like the YAK cherokee :ok:

[Say again s l o w l y]

You mean you both ate the same meal, from the same kitchen.........:eek:

;)

[mad_jock]

I couldn't face the dog sausages with bogging bacon and had the porridge with sodding raspberries through it.

It's just wrong, I know I am a porridge wog and proud of it. But its just not right inflicting fruit on me at that time of the morning heathen bastards. The bacon wasn't even fit to make a buttie out of it.

And don't get me started on the ham, cheese and egg butties for lunch with a cold fried egg's in them, fecking perverts.

[The Original GF]

GLENFORSA HOTEL BREAKFAST




Please help yourself to Fruit Juice and Cereals


or


Order freshly made Porridge Oats


****

Tea or Coffee & Toast (Brown or White)


****



Scottish Breakfast

Please choose from the following items



*Egg, Bacon, *Sausage, Tomato, Mushrooms,


Black Pudding, Potato Scone



or



Scrambled Eggs on Toast



Boiled Eggs



or



Loch Fyne Oak Smoked Kippers



All items freshly made to your order.*Eggs courtesy of Glenforsa’s free range hens * Sausages smoked in the Glenforsa smoker.

:ok::ok::ok:

[Say again s l o w l y]

I think MJ might end up hurling something at the screen now.





Nice one! :ok:

[mad_jock]

That's just plain cruel. :sad:

[Human Factor]

My eyes! My eyes! :ooh:

(.... and what's worse is that he was on the return leg at that point!!)

[TheGorrilla]

:{

trying to stop salivating...

[Human Factor]

I trust you're talking about the menu....... :}

[TheGorrilla]

Indeed HF.... I'm having black pudding withdrawal symptoms. Which basically involves eating everything in sight whether it's edible or not till I find something that tastes of black pudding. :E:eek:

[NorthSouth]

I guess its yin and yang. Flying in the West Highlands = lightness of spirit + heaviness of belly

NS

PS can we talk about the lightness bit now?

[Ringway Flyer]

Having waited some time for the opportunity to revisit Oban, Tuesday looked to be a Good Day. BUT not without some issues.... 1st, a call as PPR is deemed mandatory. Tried the ADMIN line. 'Please listen to the following list...' Chose option 4, PPR request. Another list, chose option 3, and.... line went dead. So I tried ATC. Man who answered said I needed to speak to admin on the number I'd just tried. I explained the problem and he then reluctantly agreed to take my details, saying that he would probably need to deal with the radio at the same time. He didn't.

So far so good, if a bit awkward. Already getting the impression that GA is a bit of a nuisance to them. So we set off and enjoyed an excellent, if a bit turbulent, flight, enhanced as usual by the very friendly and helpful people at Scottish info. from Penrith onwards.

We landed at Oban and were told to park as close as possible to a Citabria and to ensure that we pushed back as far as possible over the grass, as other aircraft were expected and there was not a lot of space. Apart from an Islander and the Citabria, the apron was empty. We then looked around for the 'C' and spotted it on the old portacabin, so headed that way to sign the book, etc. We were greeted by Paul, who remembered us from when we based ourselves there some 5 years ago for a few memorable days discovering the islands. He said that we needed to go to the shiny new building to pay our landing fee. (Which had gone up to £15 from the £10 in the guide). The 'light refreshments' were a taxi ride to the nearest pub, so we went back to Paul and enjoyed the traditional jammy dodgers and a mug of tea, sitting in the sun with the magnificent view over the bay.

After an enjoyable chat and a refuel, we set off back to Barton. As we were doing our checks, the other traffic arrived - a Cessna - and he was given the same parking instructions! We had been there over an hour and nothing had moved. Busy??

That said, if you can put up with the jobsworth attitude, it is still a beautiful part of the country to visit. Don't be put off! Hopefully it might return to the friendly place it once was.

One part of it still is.

Thanks Paul!

[jodeltugger]

Flew into Oban on sunday afternoon,no problem with PPR,the staff could not of been more helpful and friendly.Beautiful weather,great location and very relaxed atmosphere.The airport staff called Paul for us and the fuel bowser was with us in a couple of minutes.Great service all round.Thanks to everyone at the airfield for an enjoyable afternoon . :D:D

[Maoraigh1]

I also flew in to Oban on Sunday 10 May, and had no problems with short notice PPR. Airport staff were helpful and welcoming. We hadn't phoned Paul, and they called him. We had complementary coffees at his portacabin. I have NOT found a "jobsworth" attitude in the Oban staff.
The airport may be uneconomic, but that is not the staff's fault. And they didn't design the phone system.
(I did have a telephone problem two weeks ago, when I was unable to get through from Inverness or Skye, to cancell a PPR made earlier that day. But telecoms problems are not necessarilly staff caused.)

[SFCC]

It's not a damned 'airport'.
It's an airfield.:ugh:

[dont overfil]

I was in one of the Cessnas on Tuesday. No problems here, but I agree, they were not rushed off their feet.

The Islander left while I was there. Could not see any pax on board.

DO.

[bingofuel]

Airport? Airfield? I think it is actually an 'aerodrome'

Now taking cover to avoid incoming!!

[Oldpilot55]

Landing strip!

It was never the most harmonious of strips before the cooncil f***ed with it. The glidery folk never got on with the microlighters who never got on with the powered folk who never got on with Paul. Being an outsider I always found Paul very pleasant, knowledgeable and helpful.

[TheGorrilla]

Best thing about Oban.......... Jammy Dodgers and play juice (avgas).

Thanks Paul.


The rest doesn't interest me for some reason.

[TheGorrilla]

........... And another thing!!.... get some decent bloody controllers!! The reception I had from the little hitlers up in their oh-so-precious tower every time I've been there is nothing but unfriendly, obnoxious and insulting! Next time I go to Oban and hear that tone of voice from a controller i'm going to go up the tower, grab 'em by the ear and march them down to LHR or LGW to let them see what real atc is all about.

Edging a word in sideways for a clearance at LHR is a pleasure compared to asking permission to taxi 3 inches at Oban.

Grrrrrr.... :(

[PPRuNe Radar]

And another thing!!.... get some decent bloody controllers!!

Back to the books for you ... what type of Air Traffic Service is provided at Oban ?

[Say again s l o w l y]

Just ignore them! ;)

[Maoraigh1]

I've never had any complaints about the Oban Information guys. I had no problems with Oban Radio, before the upgrade.

[TheGorrilla]

what type of Air Traffic Service is provided at Oban ?

A lousy one!!

Sorry couldn't resist that! :}

Rant over... I'll ignore them next time.

[silverknapper]

Well MJ I know for a fact you didn't miss much with the breakfast. It is only served between 8 and 9 on a Sunday morning. You'd never be up in time for it. Very disappointing.

[The Original GF]

You can please all of the people some of the time etc etc.............:ugh:


OGF

[Spotthedog]

We stopped overnight at Glenforsa last week (11/12 May) in our PA28 because of the rave reviews in this thread and had a completely fantastic time ... so thanks to all you people for your comments and recommendations (the menu is wot did it!!) and to the Glenforsa guys for their hospitality and warm welcome.

The six-day trip from Shoreham took us to Unst airfield (and an orbit or six around Muckle Flugga of course), Sumburgh, Fair Isle, Wick and then down the Great Glen, in the most spectacular evening light, to Glenforsa which was ideally placed on our route. Then on briefly to Oban (for fuel - no problems with ATC or anything really) - then Benbecula, Tiree and Islay before heading southwards. We bottled out on Barra which was a shame but didn't want to mess up the plane! Might have to return in a clapped out club plane to do that.

I just can't wait to return.

[b.a. Baracus]

Hello ppruners,

I am planning a trip to Oban and will be coming in from the North. I have looked at videos on youtube of approaches to 19, is it standard to fly a curved finals to avoid the caravan site? It says in the airfiled brief that this only applies to helicopter traffic, but perhaps good airmanship for fixed wing to do the same?

........ Don't want to upset the people in the tower!

[NorthSouth]

You'll find you have to fly a curved approach to 19 anyway because of the hill. V difficult to avoid the caravan park because it's about half a millimetre to the right of the final approach at less than half a mile from touchdown, but if you can fly between it and the hill to join final you'll be doing pretty well.

Even more difficult to avoid the caravan park on departure 01 because that hill will be looming ever larger in the windscreen and you'll be itching to turn left.

Have fun - it's one of the UK's great airfields.

NS

PS: I'm impressed that you know in advance what direction the wind will be in - you must tell us your secret!

[b.a. Baracus]

NorthSouth, thanks for your reply.

...... I could tell you my secret method for predicting wind, but then I would have to kill you. :E

[Gelande Strasse]

Airport? Airfield? I think it is actually an 'aerodrome'

Now taking cover to avoid incoming!!


I'll take the flak, it's not Oban, it's Connel!! :ok:

GS

[dont overfil]

GS
It's Oban in 2008 Pooleys. It may even be Glasgow Oban soon if Ryanair start a service. But I agree with you.
DO.

[Say again s l o w l y]

Don't put ideas in the council's head. They honestly believed that was possible................

[NorthSouth]

To be fair to the council, they did follow the O'Leary model of commercial air service start-up as closely as they could: spend massive amounts of public money on your airport; pay the airline to provide services from the airport; and pay the airline to be at the airport even when it's not flying.

NS

[Maoraigh1]

How did it go? This was the second time since 1987 that I didn't get there.

[jonkil]

No big turn out at all, 3 made it from our club in Ireland up to Glenforsa, a few others came and went...... the weather was horrid.
http://i89.servimg.com/u/f89/11/79/21/74/ss857810.jpg

[Capt Whisky Whisky]

a few others came and went......


There would have been more if the 'airport manager' hadn't chosen the only weather window on the Saturday to b****r off on some private bit of 'business' taking the A/G operator with him and declaring the Airfield closed due to 'waterlogging' (it wasn't).
This left pilots who wanted to leave, unsure what to do, and pilots on their way to Glenforsa, being told by Scottish Info that the Airfield was closed until further notice. It took the Hotel manager working with the Council guys at Oban to sort out the mess and get the runway re-opened, but by then most of the incoming had turned back.

You couldn't make it up.:ugh:

WW

[helicopter-redeye]

Sunday evening was very pleasant at Oban (sunny and limited cloud) and South of Mull other fields (and beaches) on Colonsay were clear of cloud (viz 40km).

Monday was *&^%. That was the longest wait I have ever had at Oban. thanks to Paul for hospitality and to the Oban team for putting up with me pacing around for 6 hours (I think there is now a perm track worn in the helipad).

I was really only bad west of Kintyre and around Oban/ E Mull. Everybody else had a sunny weekend.

h-r

[MetOffice]

Tried to get PPR to fly into Oban from Perth yesterday morning and was told that the airfield was closed to fixed wing????...Then later on in the afternoon was told it was open again but that they had NOTAMed reduced runway lengths. By this time the CBs were building so I didn't bother. Any idea what's going on?

[Phil Space]

At over nine million pounds this has to be the most expensive little airstrip in the UK?:ok:

[Genghis the Engineer]

Just an observation - I flew into North Connell for the first time in several years last week.

The phoned PPR was straightforward enough. The ATC was fairly incompetent - you DO NOT distract a pilot on finals by asking his PoB, and you DO NOT ask somebody to park a taildragger with the tail over the grass when the grass is edged with lighting on stalks (one less stalk now than it had a week ago, but fortunately it was frangible so no damage to the aircraft).

Apart from that, Paul.K was his ever-friendly and helpful self and a pleasure to catch up with, and the airfield and scenery as fantastic as they've ever been. I'll be back again, because it remains one of the nicest places in Britain to fly into.

Can't honestly see where anybody spent £9m compared to a by and large useable airfield before that - looks like a few tens of thousands have been spent tidying up the runway, adding lights, and a bit of block-paving to park on.

G

[Phil Space]

Euro money down the drain.
The boss is now back at Coventry I understand:ok:

[madflyer26]

Genghis,

Just an observation, why didn't you ask for an amended taxi clearance if you though you were taxiing into the unknown, or did you check where your tail-wheel was going to end up prior to swinging round.

Your assumption is mostly correct about the Radio facility, just because any facility tells you to do something doesn't mean your absolved from using your common sense especially if you have prior knowledge of incompetent practices.

Asking for POB on final is not a CAP 418 SOP but it's hardly worth reporting that on this forum. I am a local pilot and I have heard the RT and it's not great but you have to use your savy and decipher whats best for you. I would suggest that you visit the tower on your next trip and correct them on the error of their ways. These guys are all bar one non aviators, so unless there is a complaint all that's going to happen is perpetuating error.

By coming on here airing your grievances is in my opinion not the best course of action, affirmative action is much better and could go a long way to sorting the issues out. All you have done is highlight an issue but in retrospect could you have avoided it?

Phil Space,

The waste of money thing has been done to death and unless you have a cunning scheme to recoup the said money, drop it as it's boring as hell. Most people know by now of the debacle that went on, but it's time to move on and encourage more to utilise this magnificent site.

People who live in the past generally are afraid to compete in the present. I've got my faults, but living in the past is not one of them. There's no future in it. (http://thinkexist.com/quotation/people_who_live_in_the_past_generally_are_afraid/220569.html)”



Regards MF26

[Capt Whisky Whisky]

Tried to get PPR to fly into Oban from Perth yesterday morning and was told that the airfield was closed to fixed wing????...Then later on in the afternoon was told it was open again but that they had NOTAMed reduced runway lengths. By this time the CBs were building so I didn't bother. Any idea what's going on?

Rumour has it that -

Argyll and Bute Council may have provided false information to the CAA about ground they owned/controlled at Oban airport in order to get a licence. It turns out that the local aero club had leased part of the r/w strip for 20 + years and they have been getting so pissed of with the council hassling them that they have fenced off their leased area adjacent to the r/w to park their a/c. Panic ensued and Argyll and Bute Council closed the runway until they worked out what it all meant! The scheduled flights were halted until it was pointed out that they were operating off only 500 metres on Coll and Colonsay!
Alledgedly some top bods at the council had known about the lease for years but decided to try and bluff it out. It is also rumoured from within Argyll and Bute Council at Lochgilphead that a certain senior official is likely to lose their job and may be prosecuted for providing false info' on the official license application form.
Furthermore it is rumoured that the current airport manager has been underperforming and having too much time off and his position is under review.

Will he also be sent to Coventry?

Watch this space playmates.

WW:E

[Maoraigh1]

If parking with my taildragger tailwheel on the grass, I push back after I get out.
As the Oban airport staff have usually offered to help, (which I decline) this should be a possible technique even with an AN2, but possibly not a DC3.

[maxred]

Capt ww, how strong, on a scale of 1-10, is this rumour? You honestly could not make up half of the Oban antics.

In response to the atc radio, they are not the best, however, they are learning, and as pilot in command, you do whatever is safe for you and your aircraft. If you do not like a request, tell them so. Secondly, ignore them if they are asking questions at inopertune moments.

Does any one know what the correct procedure for Glenforsa is now? Do we still have to ppr via Oban?:confused:

[JohnHarris]

Argyll and Bute Council may have provided false information to the CAA about ground they owned/controlled at Oban airport in order to get a licence. It turns out that the local aero club had leased part of the r/w strip for 20 + years and they have been getting so pissed of with the council hassling them that they have fenced off their leased area adjacent to the r/w to park their a/c. Panic ensued and Argyll and Bute Council closed the runway until they worked out what it all meant! The scheduled flights were halted until it was pointed out that they were operating off only 500 metres on Coll and Colonsay!
Alledgedly some top bods at the council had known about the lease for years but decided to try and bluff it out. It is also rumoured from within Argyll and Bute Council at Lochgilphead that a certain senior official is likely to lose their job and may be prosecuted for providing false info' on the official license application form.
Furthermore it is rumoured that the current airport manager has been underperforming and having too much time off and his position is under review.

Will he also be sent to Coventry?

Watch this space playmates.

WWhttp://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/evil.gif

http://nmai.forumm.biz/users/a7/18/25/19/smiles/108148.gifhttp://nmai.forumm.biz/users/a7/18/25/19/smiles/874542.gifhttp://nmai.forumm.biz/users/a7/18/25/19/smiles/874542.gifhttp://nmai.forumm.biz/users/a7/18/25/19/smiles/874542.gifhttp://nmai.forumm.biz/users/a7/18/25/19/smiles/279954.gif
You couldnt make it up, Monty Python sketch in there somewhere, what a crowd of Knobs. LOL :D

[dont overfil]

Maxred,
Glenforsa has never been ppr from Oban. Call airfield manager on 01680300402/07799744908.
DO.

[The Original GF]

Glenforsa has never been ppr from Oban.


We are constantly refering pilots to Oban for PPR who have called the Hotel because they are unable to contact the 'Airport Manager' at Glenforsa.

In the past, pilots have had their meals disturbed by local police who have been called out by the 'Airport Manager' to investigate why they have not PPR'd or filed a flight plan!

As the man said 'you couldn't make it up':ugh:

OGF

[Cows getting bigger]

Surely not, GF? He has always been extremely decent to me, providing it was somewhere between 1000 and 1130hrs. :ok:

Here's a suggestion. Let the chap (and his charming chappess) who owns the hotel run the airfield. Almost all the airfield users avail themselves of this fine hostelry and maybe it would be worthwhile putting the eggs in one basket. When chap & chappess are feeling tired and emotional, I believe that Stella Dog is ably qualified to run the show (certainly on a par with Airfield Manager). What's more, I'm sure the chap will not cost as much as Airfield Manager to employ. Indeed, he would probably do it for free (well almost) thus saving ABC a noticeable amount of cash.

Sorry, I'll come back down to Earth. That suggestion is far too logical.

[The Original GF]

We have had a word with Stella, and she says she is looking for something a litte more challenging if she is going to change careers!:E



OGF

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn129/TheOriginalGF/Dawg-1-1.jpg?t=1245167126

[Cows getting bigger]

The Robbo is her pimp? I'm confused........

[mad_jock]

pilots have had their meals disturbed by local police who have been called out by the 'Airport Manager' to investigate why they have not PPR'd or filed a flight plan!

What the hell has it got to do with him if you have filed a flight plan or not.

I would hope the police do the prick for wasting police time.

And stella looks more than capable of running an airfield but I suspect she would be open to biased favouritism to pilots offering chocolate hobnobs. But to be fair there are quite a few international airports which ATC act in exactly the same manner.

[flybymike]

The "reliability " of the airfield manager seems to be a contentious issue. I wonder why A&BC have not done anything about it? I presume they are his employer.

[dont overfil]

He has been there longer than any of them. Seniority old boy!
DO.

[gasax]

Do please remember this is not just a council, this is a completely incompetent, officious and somewhat vindicative council.

Logic, sense, service and efficiency are thus not just completely alien but actually terrible threats to the officials, the employees and all the placemen. There is something almost uniquely bad about many Scottish councils......

So it is probably true that a personable pooch could do better!

[ak7274]

Absolutely brilliant everyone. It's no great secret that Brendan and David don't send each other Christmas cards. Now for the rest of this summer at least flying into Glenforsa I will be walking on eggshells trying not to take sides. "It was 'im wot done it"...no no .."If he wasn't so whatever".."I never said that"..."Oh yes he did"...Who has the current radio license?.Then he is the man. Who tried to get a personal frequency?......Too may questions and not enough good sense. I suggest they both grow up and keep what is a beautiful Airfield a wonderful place to visit. I also suggest contributors to the forum stop trying to wind them up.:=

[flybymike]

But unfortunately the issues surrounding DH do not just relate to matters of inconvenience and petty squabbling. There are safety implications too.

[flybymike]

Jock, as ever, brings us a note of delicate reflection...;)

[Phil Space]

It all adds colour and drama to a real life saga that betters a lot we see on tv.

I hope the fun continues as it often brightens up a dull morning:ok:

[mad_jock]

Emails winging to a divisional Commander asking him what the deal is. So far the flight plan is not a problem as I suspected.

PPR is getting looked into to see if it is civil or criminal.

If its civil no more visits to the field by the boys in Blue.

Has anyone bothered to write to the council/ MP about this completely stupid situation which is occurring.

[jonkil]

Had my first visit to Glenforsa this year. Beautiful place and the folk at the Glenforsa Hotel were great. Met with the guy at the airstrip to pay the landing fee, was OK........ why has such a beautiful place, with lets face it, not a hell of a GA traffic got so political and awkward. It is a simple grass airfield that isnt hard to keep, is it going to be destroyed by government the same way they destroy everything else ? As for spending 9,000,000 on Oban, my God what the hell were the people in charge thinking about, try doing such a stupid exercise in the private sector, you would be hung drawn and quartered..... heads NEED to roll regarding that one.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Genghis,

Just an observation, why didn't you ask for an amended taxi clearance if you though you were taxiing into the unknown, or did you check where your tail-wheel was going to end up prior to swinging round.

I did, but in trying to position for a potential pushback I got it wrong - which is fully my fault.


Asking for POB on final is not a CAP 418 SOP but it's hardly worth reporting that on this forum. I am a local pilot and I have heard the RT and it's not great but you have to use your savy and decipher whats best for you. I would suggest that you visit the tower on your next trip and correct them on the error of their ways. These guys are all bar one non aviators, so unless there is a complaint all that's going to happen is perpetuating error.

I'll leave that to you locals - but I'd expect even a non-aviator A/G operator to be fully aware regardless that a pilot on finals is quite busy enough and doesn't need distracting.


By coming on here airing your grievances is in my opinion not the best course of action, affirmative action is much better and could go a long way to sorting the issues out. All you have done is highlight an issue but in retrospect could you have avoided it?

A minor whinge within the general discussion, it's still an airfield I plan to visit again. I can't avoid a A/G operator distracting me with unnecessary communication on short finals - that's his call not mine.


Phil Space,
Glad to meet you.


The waste of money thing has been done to death and unless you have a cunning scheme to recoup the said money, drop it as it's boring as hell. Most people know by now of the debacle that went on, but it's time to move on and encourage more to utilise this magnificent site.
Thanks for that, but it's my comment after my first trip in there since the change of airfield management so the changes were entirely new to me firsthand.

And yes, it is a magnificent site, and deserves to be used a lot.

G

[Sweet & Sour]

Its reassuring reading to see others have concerns regarding D.H. earlier on this thread I posted my concerns regarding his ability to act as airfield manager only to have them removed by the moderator, I wrote to the Oban management they weren't even professional enough to reply:ugh:. I am sure its only a matter of time until ?????? happens then things may change.
S&S

[flybymike]

The reasons for removal by the mods were entirely understandable in view of what had been said. This is a difficult and sensitive area to deal with on a public forum but on the other hand there is a legitimate safety issue here as well. I have no idea whether these matters have been brought to the attention of his employers and whether after due diligence they have been dismissed as unjustified concerns, or whether the concerns have simply been ignored. However if his employers will not take action to at least investigate the matter then I do not know how it can be resolved until there is an accident.

[Mike Cross]

CAP 413, Radiotelephony Manual (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=33&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=3441)

5 Aerodrome Air/Ground Communication Service Phraseology
5.1.2 Messages will not be transmitted to an aircraft during take-off, the last part of final approach or the landing roll, unless it is necessary for safety reasons, because it will be distracting to the pilot at a time when the cockpit workload is often at its highest.

[BRL]

Sweet and Sour, your "Concerns" were a bit too personal and you know it so don't bother dredging that up as an excuse to have a pop. Look back through your posts, nothing constructive at all mate. PM me and we will discuss this further if you want :)

Mad Jock, I have had a complaint, please tone it down old chap :)

To all, I have had enough of people slagging everyone off, it's getting like the old days here now. This thread is for news/visits/reports please not vendettas.

[Cows getting bigger]

Still one of the finest airfields in the UK and somewhere that every aviator should visit, at least once.

[dont overfil]

I have been regularly flying to Glenforsa and Oban for over twenty years and have never had a problem. They are great places to visit.
I know there are relationship difficulties (in house) at both of these locations. Where isn't there? This has nothing to do with 99% of the people on this forum.
Perhaps if visitors turn up with preconceived ideas of the sort of service they are going to get they maybe don't treat these people with the respect they deserve. As a result they will not get good service.
Calling names in an anonymous forum is pretty cowardly.
If you have difficulty in getting ppr I provided a mobile number a few posts ago. (I don't know if I should have).
The Scottish islands are a small world. It is such a pity they are being depicted as small minded.
The origional GF (and Mrs) and DH have always given me courteous and efficient service and I'm sure they will provide it to you if you visit.

DO.

[mad_jock]

Wilco post removed.

PPR is apparently a bit of a nippy one and "no comment" is the answer.

[Kiltie]

I like David Howitt and his stories of the history of the airfield. I first met him in 1985 and have been flying to Mull ever since. I've never had any safety concerns there with what was being transmitted from the ground, as it has always been only information and it's up to me how I choose to act on it (or not). David explained to me years ago why PPR was essential. It's a council legal requirement; I understood his reasoning and haven't had a problem with it. His answerphone is always on and he returns my call every time.

I have stayed in the Glenforsa Hotel several times whilst under the ownership of 4 different people. I've decided to stay elsewhere during future visits.

[The Original GF]

I've decided to stay elsewhere during future visits.


It that because the Hotel is always full?



OGF

[Kiltie]

No, I've never had a problem getting a room on the days I have visited.

[maxred]

I thought the mod had asked that we stop 'slagging and insulting' individuals on the forum. Kiltie, obviously the hotel does not suit your current requirements. For the record, the current owners run a friendly, comfortable and aviation related business. Scottish tourism is not a particularly easy business to be in, god knows in the current climate, it therefore should be applauded that the sites at Oban and Glenforsa afford some of the most beautiful flying in the UK.

Lets forget the spend and politic at Oban, and enjoy the facility that has been developed. Those who have followed the events over the past decade understand the real heroes and villians in this 'journey of West Coast Aviation'.:O:O:O

[Kiltie]

Maxred where have I slagged or insulted any individuals?

[Say again s l o w l y]

Why would the police need to be informed about a movement originating in the UK and ending in the UK?

NI, Channel Islands, IoM etc yes, but not at Glenforsa.

This is all to do with the incoming barrage of utter nightmares that is the new e-borders system. It ain't here yet though.

[helicopter-redeye]

The local police in the islands and W Coast are often quite proactive in checking out aircraft movements - how do they know where they have come from .... Its probably a good thing, the interactions are informal and friendly, and they are helping to protect us from the bad guys.

Sierra Bravo also quite active round Oban port - the suits give them away though;)

[Gelande Strasse]

Sierra Bravo also quite active round Oban port - the suits give them away though

I think they are probably just the 'cooncillors' minders :cool:

GS

[Capt Whisky Whisky]

COUNCIL FORCED TO ACT OVER AIRPORT
Argyll and Bute Council is seeking legal advice in relation to one of its tenants at Oban Airport.
The move comes after Argyll Aero Club, which leases a site at the airport for a hangar, erected a fence which cuts into the safety area around a runway which is referred to as the ‘runway strip’.
The result is that the normal useable runway has been reduced in length by roughly a third and larger fixed wing aircraft, including the fixed wing Air Ambulance, can no longer land at Oban Airport.
Despite three letters outlining how the fence impinges on the airport’s operations and requesting that it be taken down, Argyll Aero Club has so far refused to remove it.
Other methods of delineating the leased ground area which comply with the requirements in this safety areawould not cause any problem.
The Council is currently seeking legal advice on what options are now open to it.
Council Leader Councillor Dick Walsh called the situation “totally unacceptable”.
“We are not disputing that our tenant, Argyll Aero Club, has a legal right to delineate the area it has leased, but the way in which it has chosen to mark it has extremely serious consequences for the operation of the airport,” he said.
“We have spelled out these consequences very clearly to the Club on several occasions, but it continues to refuse to remove the fence. We are therefore left with little option.
“I find it remarkable that anyone could knowingly act in a way which results in such an essential public service as the Air Ambulance aeroplane being no longer able to use the local airport.”
In the past week, the airport has had to turn down two requests for the King Air Air Ambulance to land. However, Councillor Walsh stressed that the issue was not just about the Air Ambulance.
“This situation has much wider consequences for the airport and the local economy,” he added.
“We already have, for instance, two Learjets provisionally booked to use the airport next month, carrying visitors who want to spend their holiday in Argyll and Bute. As the situation stands at the moment we will have to turn these aircraft – and these people – away.
“This is a totally unacceptable situation, and one which we obviously need to act on as soon as possible. It is very disappointing to have to resort to the legal route, but it seems that is now the only option.”
The ‘runway strip’ is an 80 metre wide strip of land, stretching 40 metres each side of the runway’s centre line.
This ‘strip’ is placed around a runway to ensure that if an aircraft leaves the paved area it will suffer no further significant damage. Therefore, it protects an aircraft and its passengers from coming to any harm.
In order to operate the airport safely, Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) rules stipulate that this strip has to be maintained in a condition suitable to allow an aircraft, if necessary, to leave the paved area onto the grass in the event of an emergency. Outside of these protected areas, there are slopes that no obstacle is allowed to penetrate in order to ensure the safety of an aircraft and its occupants in the event of a missed approach.
The CAA requirements are quite clear and all licensed airports must adhere to these regulations. Oban Airport is no exception.
As the fence erected by Argyll Aero Club encroaches into that strip of land, the runway length has had to be shortened. Larger aircraft which require the runway’s full length, such as the King Air Air Ambulance, can no longer use the airport.
The Council has informed the CAA of the situation.
NOTE TO EDITORS
Oban Airport is registered as having two runways – Runway 01 (taking off due North) and Runway 19 (taking off due South).
The take-off run available on Runway 01 before the erection of the fence was 1064 metres, and the available landing distance 1110 metres. Those figures are now 702 metres and 782 metres respectively.
The take-off run available on Runway 19 before the erection of the fence was 1141 metres, and the available landing distance 993 metres. Those figures are now 842 metres and 642 metres respectively.
The King Air Air Ambulance requires a strip of at least 850 metres to land.
ENDS

[Lurking123]

Playground politics. Makes one wonder what the real issue is.

[The Original GF]

The Argyll Aero Club (AAC) is astonished by the recent outburst from Councilor Walsh of Argyll & Bute Council regarding the legitimate fencing for operational reasons of a part the club’s leased area at Oban Airport. He has been ill informed and ill advised to make such patently false and inaccurate statements.

To attempt to deliberately mislead the public about ambulance flights is reprehensible. An enquiry by the club to the providers of the air ambulance services to the Oban area has confirmed that there is no reduction in air ambulance service provision due to any action by the club. Councilor Walsh is further asked to name any operator whose use of the airport has been put in jeopardy.

That the leader of the council should now suggest they will take legal action against the club for normal use of their leased area is nonsense. He should by now know that ABC is not above or beyond the rule of the law.

The AAC has leased an area at the airport since 1995 and have been model tenants spending our own money to enhance facilities for both local and visiting pilots. Our activities have brought nothing but widespread acknowledged credit to the club and the airport.

When the council decided to license the airport they required a part of the club’s leased area in order to comply with Civil Aviation Authority regulations. Instead of trying to resolve that situation by discussion, senior officials within the council provided misleading information to the CAA in order to obtain a license for the airport. It is a criminal offence to provide false details on an airport license application form.

It is this deception that has now come back to haunt the council and it is understood that the CAA is now looking into the license application process.

Over the last 2 years the council have continually harassed and bullied the club in order to move us off the airport and gain control of our ground. This bullying included the illegal destruction in the middle of the night of some 20 trees planted by the club 12 years previously to screen and protect our purpose built aircraft hangar. Officials also ordered the fencing-off of our boundaries in order to restrict the clubs use of our leased area and have used our area as a dumping ground in order to restrict our activities. All of this was undertaken despite the council being informed by the club and their lawyers that they had no right to interfere with, or enter, the leased area.


The club had no other alternative but to resort to the courts to allow us to continue our legitimate occupation and use of our land. The court has entirely supported the club’s position and the council has now to pay the club compensation and our legal costs. In addition the Council have been forced to give the court a solemn undertaking not to enter into the area. Despite this, the council’s latest tactic to coerce the club into quitting, is to attempt to raise our rent by 6 fold and backdate it for 2 years.

The Argyll Aero Club calls upon Councilor Walsh to fully investigate and make public his findings on this disgraceful affair and rid the council of the culture of bullying and deception.

The Argyll Aero Club
30 June 2009

[Fixed wing 51]

Why is it that someone who has been quoted in the Press & Journal as saying “we will do all we can to assist the Council” has gone and erected a fence fully knowing the damage that would follow.

The reduction in the runway lengths is now clearly excluding the aircraft type that could use this previously.
Why dont you ever do what you say.

For what valid reason should a flying club be allowed to cause obstruction to other aviators and visitors at Connel Airfield.

The whole situation is unbelievable.

[PhilD]

I don't think AAC are the villains in this saga...

[Phil Space]

From day one this saga has been unbelievable.

The flying club are well within their rights and it appears to me that grovelling and some cash will have to be exchanged with the local council having yet more egg on their face.:ok:

The fact that the council employed and paid expensive consulants makes me wonder where the blame lies.:mad:

[cockney steve]

IF and it's a BIG IF.....the Club's press-release is correct, It would appear that the council knowingly and fraudulently falsified their application to "upgrade" the status of this airfield........therefore ,it seems logical that it has never legallyallowed operation of aircraft requiring the "runoff area" leased to the Club , assuming the club has not given a legally binding easement or waiver of their rights to fence this part of their leased property.


on the face of it, someone dropped a huge brick and is now attempting to use the powers of officialdom to rectify the situation.

Good luck to the small guys, I hope they ARE in the right and I hope they win their battle.

(no dog in the fight, never even seen Oban airfield. )

[Phil Space]

I'll be quite interested to see the council's reply to the CAA regarding the area leased to the club which the airport claim is part of the proteced runway area.

We are all part of this saga because it has cost in excess of £9 million of our taxes. The emergency services were able to use it prior to the big spend and the only regular flights are losing money and subsidised.

As others have said there is little more to appreciate here than what existed before the ink hit the cheque book:ok:

[gasax]

Well fixed wing you're right - but only to a point.

If the council had not tried it's usual 'bully boy' tactics against AAC then it is highly unlikely the area would have been fenced.

But ABC have a terrible history of bad behaviour during this development. In this instance where it would appear they are clearly in the wrong, pushing AAC has resulted in an obvious retaliation.

At this stage it is highly unlikely the council's behaviour will change. They have already lost a number of legal actions related to the airfield.

So I await the next episode of nonsense with some glee - it's just a same that a council behaves in such an appalling manner and in doing so threatens peoples' living

[Rod1]

We have gone from an award wining GA airfield with two runways, to a very expensive terminal building and one runway. We are worse off than before, but we will have to live with it. It is still worth our support, or it will be a housing development PDQ.

Rod1

[NorthSouth]

If the GAMA KingAirs and the Learjets referred to are not on public transport flights (the patients don't pay a fare - yet!) they are under no obligation to be bound by the declared runway lengths for licensing purposes. And it is in any case no part of the council's job to tell any operator whether the runway is long enough for them. If GAMA requested use of the airport they will be well aware of the NOTAM announcing the reduced runway lengths and will no doubt have taken them into account if they need to.

Amazing how quickly this thread has defaulted to The Latest A&BC Buffoonery.

But for the avoidance of doubt, Oban's still one of the best flying experiences in the UK!

NS

[Helen49]

Many months ago I vowed never to comment again on this site, however the Oban thread attracted my attention recently and I shall break my vow in order to add my experiences.

On my recent visit I was most impresssed with the service provided during the week. The weather was excellent and the Airport was pretty busy (several hundred movements over the week or so). The staff were first class and I never experienced a jobsworth all week. Nothing was too much trouble. The facilities are excellent and the FIS was good if not always word perfect. I understand that the FISOs are relatively new to the job and are endeavouring to provide a good professional service. They are all licensed by the CAA and in these early days are being monitored fairly closely. They will learn from experience as should we all.

I am told that PPR is due to the limited experience of the FISOs and the limited amount of parking space for aircraft. It also operates under an 'ordinary' licence' the meaning of which is no doubt understood by all the experts on here! Perhaps if all the visiting pilots comply with the prior booking requirement, this will enable the FISOs to cope with the traffic more efficiently.

In my considerable experience, most airfields have their whingers, and those who behave like children. Unfortunately they are mainly amongst the GA fraternity and unfairly give GA a bad name. Usually the whingers are bitter and twisted about something but again, fortunately, the whingers are in the minority. I expect that Oban is no different.

The whingers will be regarded for what they are and the vast majority of us will enjoy Oban, its spectacular scenery (on a fine day!), and the pleasant helpful service provided at this splendid Airport/Airfield/Aerodrome........does it really matter?

Helen49

[The Original GF]

(several hundred movements over the week or so).


Are you avin a larf?


OGF

[Blink182]

Oban very quiet when I was there this week .

[Say again s l o w l y]

I am told that PPR is due to the limited experience of the FISOs and the limited amount of parking space for aircraft. It also operates under an 'ordinary' licence' the meaning of which is no doubt understood by all the experts on here! Perhaps if all the visiting pilots comply with the prior booking requirement, this will enable the FISOs to cope with the traffic more efficiently.

I've got one word for this. It begins with Boll and ends with ocks!

We aren't talking about Heathrow here! Or even Perth or Cumbernauld to be honest...........

[10W]

The whingers will be regarded for what they are and the vast majority of us will enjoy Oban, its spectacular scenery (on a fine day!), and the pleasant helpful service provided at this splendid Airport/Airfield/Aerodrome........does it really matter?


£9M plus of tax payers money says it does :ok:

[140KIAS]

I am told that PPR is due to the limited experience of the FISOs and the limited amount of parking space for aircraft.


Eh! They've got a massive apron and the whole of what used to be the second runway now redesignated taxiway foxtrot. In all the time I've been visiting you could the number of visitors on one hand and still be able to pick you nose and scratch your backside at the sametime.

It's also a real shame that there is no out of hours operation. Stopping all movements at 6pm prevents any evening visits / arrivals.

Just have to wonder how much lost opportunity this has meant for the local economy.

[connel flyer]

I think she is aving a laugh :D:D:D

H49 could be confusing the fire engine going up and down the runway with actual aircraft movments !!!!!

Back to reality it would be good to see all these movment's


GET YOURSELFS TO OBAN FOLKS :ok::ok::ok: Oh and Glenforsa :ok::ok:

CF. Grounded at the moment and surrounded by SEA:{:{

[Fixed wing 51]

I thought this thread was about flying and supporting it.

There is no valid reason why viewers on this site should endorse the actions of any individual or group interfering with “aviation” at this location.

So far, the majority of posts have been side tracked and appear to be supporting disruption here, a bit like mob rule shouting loud and long.

The Council own and operator the airfield and maybe they have made a boob with a boundary lease so let them fix it with the party involved and get it done with.
They must do whatever is required to return the runway to its full intended use.

140KIAS There is lost opportunity as you have said and I believe the Council are looking into this. There is also unnecessary lost opportunity due to the actions of one individual by not sticking to his word to support the Council. What does irritate me is hearing that an individual feel’s vindicated to causing disruption at an airfield.

Jets bring wealthy people so here is the other loss to the local economy.

Why not support aviation and the progress of Oban Airport and leave local politics to the locals.

Would the individual who authorised the erection of the fence please remove it and allow all visitors the right to visit in the aircraft of their choice.

[Say again s l o w l y]

Fortunately, we are still allowed to disagree with the actions of the people who like to think of themselves as our lords and masters.

If the airport management couldn't sort out an issue like this, then what are they paid for. You might have a stroppy tenant, but so what. A compromise could easily be reached.

I haven't been up to Oban for a while, which is a shame as it is one of the finest places to fly into in the country, but when you are responsible for a licenced facility and to the authority, then you need to make sure that issues like this are dealt with BEFORE they affect your operation.

NorthSouth has already explained how private biz jets aren't actually affected by this and frankly I guess there will have to be a whole load of biz jets and rich people coming in to redress the £10million + hole in the books after this.

[connel flyer]

SUPPORT AVIATION

FW51
Your dead right we have to support aviation. The question is are you going to put a private donation into our local council to support our dinner ladies or our care homes or for the thousand potholes we have on our local roads????
As a local tax payer it leaves a bitter taste in your mouth.:(:(. Rant over.

CF

[Capt Whisky Whisky]

There is no valid reason why viewers on this site should endorse the actions of any individual or group interfering with “aviation” at this location.
FW51.

Isn't this exactly what you are doing by being a leading apologist for ABC?

Who closed the into wind runway?
Who has stopped flying after 18:00?
Who raised landing fees?
Who has driven GA traffic down by 60%?
Who mislead the CAA in order to get Oban licensed?

Thats right, ABC.

Give it up FW51.

WW

[maxbear]

Once again I have visited this thread to see this totally negative attitude by the same old names towards the airfield, be it knocking the staff, management, or whatever.

If I was in control of the airfield and could identify the trouble makers shall we say, I would ban you all from the field.

It is simple, if you aint happy, leave the field, dont go, take up fishing, oh then maybe don't, you would no doubt cause trouble in that community.

Lovely place to visit and stay.

Rant over.

[Say again s l o w l y]

Good job you aren't and that you wouldn't have the power to do so even if you were, especially as most of us "malcontents" are exactly the ones who use the field far more than anyone else or are closely associated with it in other ways.

So keeping on a personal vendetta and allowing the bad feeling between the council and it's tenants to continue is good management is it?

This could all be fixed easily. It just needs the large degrees of muppetry to be toned down and a bit of communication.

It ain't rocket science that's for certain.

[clear prop!!!]

If the GAMA KingAirs and the Learjets referred to are not on public transport flights

For the record...they very much are!..I would have thought an instructor would have that basic knowledge!!

However they have little need to use Oban, which , is in my opinion, one of the best GA leisure destinations in the UK.

[connel flyer]

Maxbear

If your not happy with the thread dont waste your time on it. There are plenty more threads on PPRUNE to intrest you :ok:

[NorthSouth]

clear prop:Quote:
If the GAMA KingAirs and the Learjets referred to are not on public transport flights

For the record...they very much are!You may not have noticed the "if" at the beginning of the sentence, but thanks for your inside knowledge. I wonder, then, how the Loganair Islanders managed to operate their ambulance flights into unlicensed strips and how numerous business jets etc managed to get in and out of Oban for many years before it even had a licence? Oban's licence was only obtained for the Highland Airways scheduled service. It is not required for any of the other flights that have been going in and out of the place for years.
NS

[NorthSouth]

In any case all these arguments about who is to blame etc etc are all academic because the future of the airport is now assured:

Obanair - Serving Scotland and the Islands (http://www.obanair.co.uk/)

NS

[cockney steve]

A quick calculation.....9 million cost @ 5% interest = £450,000 A YEAR !


That means OVER £8,600 a week has to be found , just to pay for the cost of capital.....add on staff, maintenance, repairs and renewals..:eek:


What lunatic is running the assylum that collectively decided this was affordable?

Even if the quoted "hundred" movements a week took place, EVERY WEEK OF THE YEAR..... it would price the landings at £150 a pop just to break even-and that's on a very conservativeestimate of running-costs..

If I was a local ratepayer, I too would be incensed.

[The Original GF]

it would price the landings at £150 a pop


Please don't give the council any ideas!


OGF

[Say again s l o w l y]

NS, who are they? Is it a school project that's been put on the internet?

[NorthSouth]

SAS:who are they?A few mins on Google reveals what appears to be a failed internet service provider who now runs a cable company in Rutherglen. No obvious sign of an aviation connection, which of course doesn't mean there isn't one.
NS

[Say again s l o w l y]

Hmmm, never heard of this chap.

Is it the same person who owns Pryor Cable Services from the same address? If so, what aviation background do they have?

Domain name:
obanair.co.uk

Registrant:
Spencer Pryor

Registrant type:
Non-UK Individual

Registrant's address:
26 Clos St Sampson
St. Brelade
Jersey
JE3 8FR
Jersey

Registrar:
GX Networks Ltd [Tag = S2CONSULTING]
URL: Donhost: web host, business web hosting, servers and resellers (http://www.donhost.co.uk)

Relevant dates:
Registered on: 29-May-2009
Renewal date: 29-May-2011

Registration status:
Registered until renewal date.

Name servers:
ns1.donhost.co.uk 81.21.65.132
ns2.donhost.co.uk 195.10.228.132

All info from the public domain etc.etc.

[Jofm5]

SAS that looks like the domain registrant information which is most likely the company that created their website.

You can pay to get the directors information but the free info from companies house is: -

Name & Registered Office:
OBANAIR LTD
38 AVONBANK RD
RUTHERGLEN
G73 2PA
Company No. SC360044

Status: Active
Date of Incorporation: 21/05/2009
Country of Origin: United Kingdom

Company Type: Private Limited Company
Nature of Business (SIC(03)):
None Supplied

Accounting Reference Date: 31/05
Last Accounts Made Up To: (NO ACCOUNTS FILED)
Next Accounts Due: 21/02/2011
Last Return Made Up To:
Next Return Due: 18/06/2010

Previous Names:
No previous name information has been recorded over the last 20 years.

[Gelande Strasse]

Hmmm, never heard of this chap.


From that venerable publication the 'OT' 2/7/09

Two pilots under the company name of Obanair Ltd are carrying out a feasibility study to look at introducing flights connecting the central belt and the Western Isles via Oban.
The study is likely to take two or three months and if it comes out in favour of the routes, Edinburgh-Oban-Benbecula and Prestwick-Oban-Stornoway, the new service would not be underway until next year at the very earliest.
Spencer Pryor (for it is he!) who is based in Rutherglen and has a background in avaition and market research, along with another director is keen to set up the two routes with Obanair based at Oban Airport.
'We still need to enter into discussions with A&BC regarding Oban Airport and Highlands and Islands Airports Ltd' said Mr Pryor.
'We have flown in and out of Oban Airport as pilots and feel that it is a little under-utilised. If we could do daily flights we would be happy with that but it could be three days a week.'
'The idea is to see if there is a market for it and test the economics of it.'
He is hoping the research will show a demand for a daily service using a small commuter aircraft. Obanair would apply for a Cat B airline operators' licence.
Mr Pryor hoped the services might be able to take advantage of the airline discount scheme to the Western Isles.




I like the 'little under-utilised' bit, I'll agree with him there!


So, what do you reckon, a bit of :ugh: or :ok:?

GS

[140KIAS]

Here's a press release which names Spencer Pryor as "CEO or Obanair".

New air service mooted for Western Isles (http://www.hebridesnews.co.uk/new_flights_mooted_for_western_isles.html)

Wonder if he has his own corporate jet ?

[140KIAS]

So, what do you reckon, a bit of :ugh: or http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif?


Or perhaps a clever ploy to get their hands on some of A&BC's handouts ;)

[Say again s l o w l y]

Who's AOC? Which aircraft? What's the Aviation experience of this lot?

Let's just say that I think there is more chance of Ryanair agreeing to run a route using 737-800's into Oban than this becoming reality!

[Mike Cross]

Clearly Spencer Pryor, Director and Secretary of newly formed Obanair Ltd, who was born on 6 March 1957 is no relation to Spencer Hugh Pryor who by a remarkable co-incidence was also born on 6 March 1957.

Spencer Hugh Pryor is a Director of Ecosse Tel Internet Ltd which last filed accounts to 28 Feb 2001 and a Director of Ecosse Telecommunications Ltd and Local Post Ltd, both of which appear to have been dissolved.

[Cows getting bigger]

Rumour has it that I will be visiting Oban & Glenforsa in a couple of weeks. Original GF, I look forward to sampling your bar stock, again. :}

Despite all the shenanigans, many of us will continue to visit this glorious part of the world.

[NorthSouth]

Latest news from Oban is that, as from 27 August, start-up clearance is required from Oban Info.

I suppose a pilot has to know which way the tug has to do the push-back. :rolleyes:

NS

[dont overfil]

How can a FISO give a clearance? Is there exceptions?
DO.

[flybymike]

At small airfields start up clearance is usually reserved for paradrop operations . Is there going to be para dropping now taking place at Oban, or do they have delusions of push back grandeur?

[helicopter-redeye]

...start-up clearance is required from Oban Info...

Where's the problem?

The Islander flights are commercial and passengers may be being marched out to their flight while somebody else starts up their people mincer next to them.

Or a heli parked into wind and facing away/ unsighted from from another helicopter in the final stages of rotor shutdown, might hit the start button and cause damage to the heli behind.

Sounds like sound risk management.

[vetflyer]

and how many Islander Fights are there a day ?

Next will be Follow Me car !:)

[Mike Cross]

How can a FISO give a clearance? Is there exceptions?

The owner of the airfield can inpose any conditions he likes, it's his airfield and you use it on his terms.

Go read Rule 40 and Rule 41.

"Clearance" is not a defined term in the ANO or ROAR.

I imagine you are confusing "clearance" with "Air Traffic Control Clearance", which is a defined term
(b) ‘air traffic control clearance’ means an authorisation by an air traffic control unit for an aircraft to proceed under conditions specified by that unit;

You would have been correct had you suggested that a FISO could not issue an air traffic control clearance.

[Capt Whisky Whisky]

Coll Fire Engine
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u218/TCH_photo/Collfireappliance-toobigforthegarag.jpg?

Perhaps whoever is in charge of these airports should try and get the basics right, such as making sure the fire engines can fit into the fire stations:ugh:

How will they blame this one on Mr Keegan?


WW

[Say again s l o w l y]

Don't tell me that this one doesn't fit either......... So that's Oban and Coll that have/had machines that wouldn't fit in the garages. For crying out loud!

[140KIAS]

I saw that on Saturday. Presumed they had heard about my landings and were being prepared :)

[Phil Space]

Three points.

1. I don't think that building was designed to house a fire engine.

2. It is an old X reg machine so I guess they got it cheap.

3. Nice to see they capture the rainwater for recycling.

and I guess the whole building and fire engine cost under 50k.

[Capt Whisky Whisky]

I guess the whole building and fire engine cost under 50k.


I guess you would be a little less flippant if it was your £50k.

I take it you are not an Argyll & Bute ratepayer?


WW

[NorthSouth]

Phil Space: Your willingness to give benefit of the doubt is admirable but:
1. I don't think that building was designed to house a fire enginePrecisely! But it's a little unfortunate that the vehicle which it was designed for can't get in or out because there's a fire engine permanently parked in the drive.;)
I guess the whole building and fire engine cost under 50kHmmm, on a council capital works budget? I doubt it! No doubt SAS or one of the other regulars on here can tell us the precise figure.
BTW there is no oversize fire truck parked outside the door of the Colonsay terminal so I guess they have one that does fit.
NS

[Phil Space]

OK fair comment but...

It makes a lot more sense to have the fire engine outside rather than inside and locked up when an accident happens. I hope it is on the active side of the security fence.

Plus the plans for the terminal will be on the local planning portal so they will state if the building was designed to house a fire engine. The freedom of information act allows access to the cost of the building and fire engine.(secondhand unit..anyone know where it was before?)

By my experience 50 - 75K for what is at best an insulated shed should cover things. The runway is a separate issue.

But perhaps the most important point is that this is an airstrip that serves a population of around 160 people. In winter there are just four ferries a week.

I suspect few of them care about a few private pilots having a go a what the place cost.

[NorthSouth]

DO:How can a FISO give a clearance?Errrm, here's how:
The FISO has the following specific responsibilities:
a) issuing information to aircraft flying in the aerodrome traffic zone to assist the pilots in preventing collisions;
b) issuing instructions and information to aircraft on the manoeuvring area to assist pilots in preventing collisions between aircraft and vehicles and obstructions on the manoeuvring area or between aircraft moving on the apron.(CAP 410 Part B, Chapter 1, para 2.1)
and
5.1 When an aircraft requests start-up or taxi the following information shall be given:
a) altimeter setting;
b) runway in use and circuit direction;
c) outside air temperature (for turbine aircraft only);
d) warnings of marked temperature inversion;
e) surface wind direction and speed, including significant variations.
5.2 It is important to issue precise and clear instructions and information to pilots engaged in taxying aircraft on areas of the aerodrome where instructions from the FISO are permitted.
NS

[helicopter-redeye]

...and how many Islander Fights are there a day ? Next will be Follow Me car !...

How many times does an unwary civvy have to walk into a moving prop before it kills him/her?;)

[Right Said Frank]

The Registered office of Obanair is a 4 flats to a Block Council House in Rutherglen In Glasgow.


Is this a re-incarnation of Neil Robertson??


Stay


Lucky Frank

[Stelladog]

If you have been trying to contact The Glenforsa Hotel, the phone/internet lines are broke. Alternative No: 07850 801 491

Cheers

Stelladog

[Utrinque Apparatus]

What's all the fuss about ? Last time I was in beautiful Glenforsa, they had very kindly grassed over the tarmac, beaten a local deer to death with a baseball bat (very tender venison), and had a very nice 2005 Chablis ( which they only allowed me to nose check the bouquet, since I flew in :})

[contrail]

I have stayed in the Glenforsa Hotel several times whilst under the ownership of 4 different people. I've decided to stay elsewhere during future visits.

I visited recently. I've decided to stay elsewhere during future visits also.

The location is superb.

[ak7274]

Why?:confused:

[Rod1]

I last stayed at the Glenforsa Hotel last summer, my trip this year was weathered off. I was very pleased with all aspects of the hotel, as was my other ½. Has something gone wrong up there?:(

Rod1

[Stampe]

Stayed there for 2 nights early this summer,pleasant and welcoming stay, food and beverage very good.Bill was very reasonable for what my party of four had,free wifi as well.I will be going back

[Wander00]

Not Chablis with venison, surely!!

[contrail]

food and beverage very good

Yes, they were. Some of the best I've had in a long time.

[Keef]

I'm confused (almost "situation normal").

I've stayed at the Glenforsa Hotel a few times, and I love it there. I really can't fault the service Brendan and Alison offer. I'll go back just as often as I can. The food's brilliant, too.

I've visited Oban a few times, too. Paul has always been helpfulness and courtesy personified. More recently, the FISO likewise was very helpful. No complaints there.

It does appear that the local Council has been less than exemplary, but that's not unusual in local Government, is it?

[jonkil]

Been in Glenforsa this year also. Brendan & Allison went out of their way to do all they could for us, Absolutely excellent and really good food.
A superb location, the only gripe I had was the bloody weather but that is out of their hands.
Definately will go there again, superb place.

Jon

[dont overfil]

I really like the place and the people. So what is it? The neighbours?
DO.

[MetOffice]

Just been forwarded two reports dealing with the Oban Airport/Argyll Air Services project, both posted on Argyll & Bute Council's website. The first an internal council audit, the second a report in to contract management by Grant Thornton.

From the council's own internal audit:


4 SUMMARY OF MAIN FINDINGS

4.2 It is our opinion that this project has suffered from inadequate Council
processes, procedures and organisational structures in relation to the
initiation, approval, control and monitoring of capital projects. In summary this
included:- a five year period, prior to the appointment of a project supervisor,
in which no cost benefit appraisal was prepared; at least three transfers of
overall responsibility for the project; appointment of a consultant ill equipped
for the task on a project so complex that competent consultancy was an
imperative; the project consisted of at least seven different complex
operations/disciplines.


Full reports here (http://www.argyll-bute.gov.uk/moderngov/Published/C00000200/M00003716/AI00047368/$ContractManagementTenderingFinalReport.docA.ps.pdf#search=)

and here (http://www.argyll-bute.gov.uk/moderngov/Published/C00000200/M00003716/AI00047368/MicrosoftWordAppendix2GTABCContractManagementFinalv1.pdf).

[Kiltie]

Don't Overfill-

No, the neighbours are very welcoming and helpful!

[dont overfil]

Kiltie,
:ok:
DO.

[Stelladog]

<--------- Now banned for trying to stir up trouble.

Picture and text removed due to copyright reasons.

[BRL]

What's the point of that post mate?

[ak7274]

Oban and Coventry don't make a ringing endorsement do they?
I am sure you meant more than just a resume of this chap.
Please enlighten us.

[Cows getting bigger]

I think the whole Oban farrago is worthy of continued discussion. However, I'm 100% with BRL and am left wondering whether Stelladog has had one too many pre-turkey sherries? :)

PS. Happy Xmas to all at Glenforsa and look forward to flying in again next year. :ok:

[dont overfil]

It's an advert (warning) for Aerodrome Licensing Support Ltd.
DO.

[Gelande Strasse]

Anyone noticed this? http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/403241-highland-airways-trouble.html

Not good news.

GS

[neutron]

I see the PPR contact telephone number for Oban has changed to a '09' number?????

Tel is now 09056 470 151

[MetOffice]

Most mobile service providers treat all 09 numbers as premium rate calls.

I hate to think what the cost of calling one from a mobile would be.

[fisbangwollop]

BBC News - Airline bosses admit 'problems' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/8478134.stm)

[fisbangwollop]

Struggling Highland Airways claims new investor on the way - Scotsman.com News (http://news.scotsman.com/scotland/Struggling-Highland-Airways-claims-new.6012534.jp)

[dublinpilot]

I see the PPR contact telephone number for Oban has changed to a '09' number?????

Tel is now 09056 470 151

....which can't be called from outside the UK. Foreign visitors not welcome?

[choxs]

On a serious note, how busy is Oban?

Parts of my family are within the area and I have been going up to Oban for years. Was really pleased when I heard that they finally got their operating licence.

I have been within Ground Handling / FBO / Airline Ops for over 10 years and everytime I go and visit my mind starts running away with me. (worrying sometimes!!)

Does Oban need anything, is their a business case for anything...i mean its a lovely area and with Ben Nevis only 1.5 hours away it has great connections - just needs somthing a little special.

Dont know, just thoughts going through my head.

[dont overfil]

The service seems to be set up only to get to and from the islands. An on demand air taxi would seem more logical serving such a small population. If there was a connection to the major hubs I could see better utilisation, however the dispatch reliability to and from a VFR airport with mountains all around would be questionable.
Oban is still fairly busy with light aircraft (by Scottish standards) but will always be a burden on the taxpayer because of the over the top regulation in this country.
DO.

[choxs]

Thanks for this. An 'Air Shuttle' run maybe from Oban to Glasgow / Edinburgh for the businessman could be attractive. A Jetstream31 or something similar i guess. (subject to operational restrictions) Its a long drive somtimes to the capital, i know ive done it enough.

An aircraft with 19 seats, doing a couple of day returns might work if the price is right. I would imagine the flying time would only be 30 mins block to block.

However, your bang on about the lack of instruments. Weather changes so much that some investment would be needed before anyone would consider coming in.

Its an idea, i wonder if Highland Aiwarys have ever done some Market Research on that.

Thanks

[gasax]

I suspect that Highland were well aware of the fare potential for the island services - hence the fairly substantial 'subsidy' for the service.

As far as linking up to any anything? Well Oban is VFR only and actually somewhat short for a fully loaded Jetstream! So mixed reliability for a partially loaded aircraft - quite a bit of a punt for a small company like Highland.

Even on the east cost companies like Eastern do not fill their aircraft.

At the end of the day the islands have low populations and direct links anywhere have never been possible - so the people that live there largely have no need for these connections. Perhaps a little chicken and egg but that is largely why the easiest way to make a small fortune is to start with a larger one!

The comparison with the floatplane service is pretty marked though! No subsidies, no help and yet it seems to be doing reasonably well.

[choxs]

I agree with you for the island links, I was actually thinking mainland connections.

I am well aware of the VFR situation - I know Eastern well, helped with the set-up at ABZ.

Thanks for your feedback

[dont overfil]

I would imagine the regulators would not have thought about the floatplane scenario soon enough to put all the hurdles in place they would have liked to. Well done G-OLLS.
DO.

[dont overfil]

I wouldn't have thought runway length would be a major problem so long as the displaced threshold is not made permanent, 140 metres less than Dundee. However no amount of investment will remove the 1010 ft hill on the extended centreline so there will never be a meaningful IFR letdown proceedure. This and the Scottish weather would probably make a schedule to the hubs too unreliable within the current regulations.
DO.

[choxs]

Agreed Overfil - and that is one big hill to overcome:ugh:

[fisbangwollop]

Well done G-OLLS.


Or even G-MDJE :cool::cool::cool:

[Mike Cross]

Most mobile service providers treat all 09 numbers as premium rate calls.

That'll be because it is a Premium Rate number. Rate p13, 20p a minute at all times from a BT landline on BT's standard business tariff (inc VAT)

[flybymike]

How many premium rate calls necessary to get back the millions spent?

[Maoraigh1]

From the Argyll and Bute Council website:
"All aerodromes operated by Argyll and Bute Council are strictly PPR. Prior Permission Requests can either be made by calling 09056 470 151 (Non Premium Rate Number) or by completing and submitting the request form below."
Cut and pasted. Their italics.

[NorthSouth]

The telecom regulator Ofcom describes 09 numbers here (http://www.ofcom.org.uk/telecoms/ioi/numbers/numbers_administered/#prem) as Special Services at a Premium Rate
I'm not a lawyer but my simple pilot brain tells me that there's a possibility that this might be slightly different from the Argyll & Bute Council definition Non Premium Rate NumberI wonder which one is correct, the telecom regulator or the seller of the service? :)
NS

[140KIAS]

Most mobile service providers treat all 09 numbers as premium rate calls. That'll be because it is a Premium Rate number. Rate p13, 20p a minute at all times from a BT landline on BT's standard business tariff (inc VAT)

Agreed, looks like 0905647 range is allocated to BT for Special Services. ~20ppm at all times.

Moreover its not included in my BT inclusive call package which makes it premium to me.

Wonder what cut ABC are getting from the 20p ? Not like them to mislead the general public - deliberate or otherwise.

[Phil Space]

And so the saga continues....public money being wasted...and no chance of it ever coming back.

An Islander could have done the job from day one.

It's a good job Argyle and Bute are not running Australian outback airfields.

[fisbangwollop]

Phil....An Islander could have done the job from day one.

An Islander BN2 did do the work from day one!! :cool::cool:

[neutron]

Just checked. My mobile service provider has a call bar on all 09 numbers by default. My workplace also bars all 09 numbers as do many others.

Admittedly, I can request that the mobile 09 bar is lifted and a call through my service provider to 09056 numbers is amongst the cheapest mobile premium rate calls at a meer 80p per minute!!!!

[Stelladog]

Wonder what cut ABC are getting from the 20p ? Not like them to mislead the general public - deliberate or otherwise.


Are you having a larf?

Banned again?

SD

[dont overfil]

Stelladog,
I find it very difficult to picture a dog using a phone I can just imagine you typing on a computor, however there is no way you pay the bills.
DO.

[Stelladog]

Sorry, what I meant was.


Not like them to mislead the general public - deliberate or otherwise.


Are you having a larf!

SB

[Phil Space]

Phil....
Quote:
An Islander could have done the job from day one.
An Islander BN2 did do the work from day one!!

What I meant was an Islander operation would not have required the several millions spent at Oban.

[140KIAS]

Are you having a larf?



Indeed I am !

[140KIAS]

My workplace also bars all 09 numbers as do many others.


But I thought you were the bossman. Skin Flint !

[fisbangwollop]

But I thought you were the bossman. Skin Flint !
:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):

[Maoraigh1]

Tried to check latest info on Argyll and Bute website, before flying to Oban tomorrow. Website appears to be down at present. My link didn't work, Googling it didn't work. Just using http://www.argyll-bute.gov.uk/ didn't work. Glenforsa site is O.K.

[140KIAS]

Yep, it does appear to be down.

On a slightly seperate note I hear on the grapevine that ABC are soon to introduce out of hours access of Oban, Coll and Colonsay.

I understand that it will work in a similar way to HIAL with a Indemnity Form being valid for 12 months at a cost of £30+VAT per airfield.

PPR and landing fees will be as per usual.

[NorthSouth]

So let me get this right. We currently land at Oban and pay a landing fee to fund the wages of the firemen etc who we don't need if we're on a private flight. Now they're proposing that, in order to land there when the firemen are at home in front of the telly, we pay their wages AND an additional fee.

Not grudging the firemen's pay by the way

NS

[Hyperborean]

The additional fee is to cover the admin associated with checking your insurance and issuing the appropriate paperwork. The insurance question is germane because, in essence, you ( ie your insurer) will be liable for any damage caused to the aerodrome and its equipment should you have a mishap. In other words the indemnity covers the airfield not the aircraft.

[gasax]

In the days when insurance was optional there was possibly some merit in this braindead bureaucracy.

Now there is a legal requirement for insurance what value does this checking achieve?

[Low Flier]

It achieves fees. That's an achievement, in the eyes of such people.

Dunno what it does to achieve an enhancement of aviation, though. We used to just land and take off without much of that crap and the old system seemed to work OK.

[Islander2]

The additional fee is to cover the admin associated with checking your insurance and issuing the appropriate paperwork. The insurance question is germane because, in essence, you ( ie your insurer) will be liable for any damage caused to the aerodrome and its equipment should you have a mishap.So, can you therefore confirm this 'checking' includes establishing that:

1) the pilot has a valid medical;
2) the pilot has a valid pilot's licence and a valid aircraft rating - certificate of test/check or experience;
3) the aeroplane has a valid certificate of airworthiness together with a valid airworthiness review certificate; and
4) the aeroplane has a valid scheduled maintenance inspection certificate of release to service and has not exceeded the airframe hours or time interval for its next scheduled maintenance inspection?

You can't? On what basis, therefore, do you believe you are establishing that valid insurance is in place?

[xrayalpha]

So, can you therefore confirm this 'checking' includes establishing that:

1) the pilot has a valid medical;

"I don't, I have a "declaration of fitness"

2) the pilot has a valid pilot's licence and a valid aircraft rating - certificate of test/check or experience;
OK.

3) the aeroplane has a valid certificate of airworthiness together with a valid airworthiness review certificate; and
Sorry, I operate Permit to Fly, so no CofA or ARC

4) the aeroplane has a valid scheduled maintenance inspection certificate of release to service and has not exceeded the airframe hours or time interval for its next scheduled maintenance inspection?
Permit to fly, don't have all that scheduled stuff!

You can't? On what basis, therefore, do you believe you are establishing that valid insurance is in place?
Got a copy of a piece of paper from a company registered in the Turkish republic of Northern Cyprus! (true, one of the biggest UK microlight insurers WAS putting all its business there, if I recall correct)

Ooops. I am now banned?

[Maoraigh1]

Site up again. It now says: "Prior Permission Requests can either be made by calling 01631 710910or by completing and submitting the request form below." No premium rate no. :D Still £10 for us under 1000Kg:D
Out -of -Hours figures are out of our reach: £300 for Coll and Colonsay, and £700 + for Oban. (Minimum of 2 hours charge)

[dont overfil]

These prices are ridiculous. Do the businesses of Argyll and Bute know the obsticles the council are putting in place for visitors.
If I was a hotel owner in one of these places I'd have my local councillor by the throat first thing in the morning.
Heh, 140KIAS, does your mate in the Coll hotel know about this?
DO.

[Maoraigh1]

The within hours figures are very reasonable. The hours are not too bad - except for the long summer days.

[dont overfil]

Exactly. They will be out of hours for half the day in summer!
Clearly Argyll and Bute council find visitors by air just a nuisance.
No mention of Glenforsa?
DO.

[mad_jock]

The whole point of the out of hours is so that it is literially out of hours with no bugger about. You don't need to pay 700 odd quid. Thats only for getting an extenstion to the hours of operation which are required when you need a fire cat to operate commercially.

The way Hial work it is that you get PPR as per usual and tell them you be coming in out of hours they say ok. Then you phone them up the next day with your arrival time. If your not on the list of airframes thats submitted your form you won't get PPR.

And you can only use it during day time.

You will have to ask them how to get out of the airfield and how to get back in if required.

[Johnm]

What is it about the UK that causes them either to close airfields and cover them with tacky houses or create endless rules and bureaucracy to get an aeroplane in and out.

I assume it's the nanny state again, clearly us pilots are too stupid to be able to fly in and out unaided.

[Captain Smithy]

Staying out of the politics myself... can't be bothered with it, all immature stuff... but I had the pleasure of visiting Oban for the first time today.

Very nice airfield, staff were very friendly and helpful, scenery has to be seen to be believed. I shall return again... hopefully for a longer stay next time. :)

P.S. If fisbangwallop's reading this, thanks very much for the service today on Scottish. :)

Smithy

[fisbangwollop]

P.S. If fisbangwallop's reading this, thanks very much for the service today on Scottish.



Think we spoke as you headed home via Polmont.......was getting a bit sporty with everyone wanting to talk at the same time!! :cool::cool::cool:

[140KIAS]

I think this is good news for Oban and should be applauded as it will allow arrivals and departures after closing at 6pm. This will be a boon during the summer months.

The additional fee is to cover the admin associated with checking your insurance and issuing the appropriate paperwork. The insurance question is germane because, in essence, you ( ie your insurer) will be liable for any damage caused to the aerodrome and its equipment should you have a mishap. In other words the indemnity covers the airfield not the aircraft.


Fair enough but how does that justify £30+VAT per airfield. Cant imagine there will be a requirement to check the insurance details 3 times over if you choose to tick Oban, Coll and Colonsay. The HIAL Out of Hours is a similar cost for all airfields.

Out -of -Hours figures are out of our reach: £300 for Coll and Colonsay, and £700 + for Oban. (Minimum of 2 hours charge)

I think you might have got the wrong end of the stick here. I suspect these charges are to open /licence the airfield outside normal operational hours. The Out of Hours Indemnity will permit you to use the airfield when it is closed/unlicenced. I dont anticipate having to pay any more than the usual £15 of whatever when utilising the Out of Hours Indemnity.

[Captain Smithy]

Think we spoke as you headed home via Polmont.......was getting a bit sporty with everyone wanting to talk at the same time!! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/cool.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/cool.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/cool.gif

Yes it got a bit busy all of a sudden didn't it? Couldn't call you at Stirling so just waited patiently for a gap.

Was a lovely day yesterday :)

Smithy

[Hyperborean]

Fair point 140KIAS. My experience is limited to HIAL and I had not picked up that Argyll and Bute charge each indemnity separately.

[140KIAS]

The Argyll and Bute websites states that for Coll and Colonsay "landings are only permitted outwith the times of the scheduled air services and are strictly by prior arrangement which can be requested by telephoning 01631 710910"

So with the alleged introduction of the Out of Hours I am going to be charged an additional £60+VAT for exactly the same privileges which have been available for the last 2-3 years at no charge ?

[Gelande Strasse]

The BN2 left Connel yesterday and the apron is deserted:

BBC News - Highland Airways goes into administration (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/8586688.stm)

Such a shame and a wasted opportunity. So who will be able to offer bids to continue the service?

A sad day for all those concerned.

GS

[Captain Smithy]

Not very good news...

Heard through the rumour mill for a while they have been in a spot of bother. Yet more poor pilots joining the dole queue... this must be one of the most insecure careers in existance :ugh:

Smithy

[Phil Space]

Like Oban another tranche of public money lost on Highland Airways services no one wants in Scotland or Wales..

[scottish_ppl]

Like Oban another tranche of public money lost on Highland Airways services no one wants in Scotland or Wales..

I think you'll find Highland Airways services were wanted and respected by many customers who will miss the excellent service they have provided Scottish island communities over many years. :=

Sorry to see them go.

[Captain Smithy]

Read in The Scotchman newspaper this morning that apparently the problem was that the taxman was after a fair bit of owed tax from Heeland Airways, they asked to pay it up over a few years but HMRC wanted the dues squared with immediate effect.

Smithy

[NorthSouth]

Phil Space/Scottish PPL:Quote:
Like Oban another tranche of public money lost on Highland Airways services no one wants in Scotland or Wales..

I think you'll find Highland Airways services were wanted and respected by many customers who will miss the excellent service they have provided Scottish island communities over many years.You're both right. People in the islands want the services, it's just that there aren't enough of them to make the services viable so they inevitably require large dollops of taxpayers money. Even with all the subsidies Highland still needed a contract at Oban that paid them even when they didn't fly, and even after all that they still struggled to pay the bills.
I see Loganair have stepped in to run Highland's STN-BEN service. Time for Hebridean Air Services to step up to fly the Coll/Colonsay run?
NS

['India-Mike]

Well, well....

Island flights to resume after deal - Herald Scotland | News | Transport & Environment (http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/transport-environment/island-flights-to-resume-after-deal-1.1017858)

[fisbangwollop]

George should have got the contract in the first instance :D for the Oban flights.....after all he is the UK's expert in BN2 operations!! The BN2 being the only commercial aircraft that can actually operate into the two islands due to lack of runway!!.:cool::cool::cool:

[NorthSouth]

I'm so pleased at that news. As you say fbw, Hebridean should have got it in the first place but hopefully they will demonstrate their ability to provide an even better service than was there before. Much will depend on what the council contract says though. At least George Cormack has the flexibility to deploy his Oban aircraft to other places when not needed there, and his other a/c to Oban when required due to maintenance etc. Highland had to pay George to maintain their Oban-based Islander anyway; now that it's in-house it will presumably make the whole operation cheaper.

Good news for Paul K too since he's now got some assurance of sales of avgas continuing at a reasonable rate.

NS

[NorthSouth]

Now featured on Hebridean's website here (http://web.me.com/susanellcome/Site_1)
NS

[sk8erboi]

STN-BEN service

Stansted to Benghazi. We are certainly are branching out at Logan!:ugh:

George should have got the contract in the first instance
Hebridean should have got it in the first place


Not entirely sure Hebridean should have. Maybe you should both elaborate as to why. As far as I know there was a tender process and Highland won fair and square. And as for bashing Highland for taking subsidy, do you think Hebridean are doing it for free? You will find he is taking even more so why not come on here and knock him for that?

And as for Hebridean being the UK Islander specialists. Not sure that Loganair, Blue Island, Lydd etc would agree with you.

[fisbangwollop]

sk8erboi And as for bashing Highland for taking subsidy,

Dont think anyone was bashing Highway.....always sad to see an operator go tits up...as for George getting the contract for Oban flights well I think he should have as he was the only person around with the expertise to operate the BN2 Islander.....the only aircraft able to operate into the two island strips due to the short nature of the runways..:cool::cool::cool:

[sk8erboi]

he was the only person around with the expertise to operate the BN2 Islander

So Logan have never have operated Islanders? Or Blue Island? Or Directflight? Or indeed Highland for that matter? Operating Islanders isn't some Black art that no one else in the world aside from Hebridean can do.

[Hyperborean]

Ah ! But Loganair (and I suspect Directflight) Islanders don't talk to Fisbangwallop on their inter-island routes. I think it would be fair to say that Logan have the longest and probably the most extensive Islander experience in Europe, if not the world. The aircraft were developed with the Orkney inter -island service very much in mind, indeed with input from the Orkney Island Shipping Company whose ship the Islander provided the very name.

[fisbangwollop]

So Logan have never have operated Islanders? Or Blue Island? Or Directflight? Or indeed Highland for that matter?

Never said that.....did any of them bother to bid then????? Highway I guess won the contract on price albeit they did not have an Islander aircraft to do the job!! As for Logan not talking to FBW...indeed they do and a great bunch of pilots I must say they are to..:cool::cool::cool:

[Say again s l o w l y]

Ahh, but George could have run the services without the need for all the expensive runway work...

Back to square one now.

[Say again s l o w l y]

Ah ! But Loganair (and I suspect Directflight) Islanders don't talk to Fisbangwallop on their inter-island routes. I think it would be fair to say that Logan have the longest and probably the most extensive Islander experience in Europe, if not the world. The aircraft were developed with the Orkney inter -island service very much in mind, indeed with input from the Orkney Island Shipping Company whose ship the Islander provided the very name.

How close do you think Logan's ties are with Hebridean...(Hint, it's very!)

[mad_jock]

I doudt Highland was the lowest bid (But I don't know)

It will have been aload of political nonsense. Someone wanted that runway upgraded and the status quo at Oban changed and were quite happy to piss any amount of money up the wall to achieve that aim which I might add they have failed to do quite spectacularly.

And no doudt George called a bunch of incompetent bumholes, a bunch of politicans, they got the hump and the rest is history.

[Say again s l o w l y]

I do know about the prices put into the bid. George was certainly not the cheapest (by quite a margin), but as anyone who knows him will tell you, that's hardly a surprise!

[ak7274]

Any more news on Oban and Glenforsa?

[S205-18F]

Guess no one is going to Glen Forsa today as I see on the webcam that the sheep are on the runway!!!
Glad George got the contract maybe now normality will return!

[dont overfil]

I was considering Glenforsa for Sunday lunch. I presume the hotel is open? Haven't heard from GF for a while.
DO.

[Utrinque Apparatus]

Add the overall costs of the failure of the previous (low priced ?) bidder, the failure to provide the service required, and the need to re-tender, and the original decision is not so low cost any more. Bring on canny George Sas ?

Obviously the decision making has to be conducted by those with some knowledge of air operations, and the Hebridean success seems to have taken into account the fact that gut instinct and huge experience is a major factor in providing Island Services

The sheer weight of the paperwork, inefficient Government jobsworth administration and regulation probably adds most of the cost to running Islanders to the boondocks anyway

[The Original GF]

I was considering Glenforsa for Sunday lunch. I presume the hotel is open? Haven't heard from GF for a while.
DO.


Yes we are open, runway is in good nick, apart from the 4 inch nails that the airport management used to nail down the turf around the numbers!:ugh:

We have also taken over the Mediterranea restaurant just up the road, if you fancy a change.

Good news re Hebridean etc, the hope is that some sanity might prevail at last.

OGF

[Utrinque Apparatus]

Hebridean Website already up and running. Local employment, local knowledge and a real solution to the problems faced by small businesses in Scotland. Brown's Russian Shock Army of jobsworths are a millstone round our necks, though not for much longer. I wish Hebridean well.

[140KIAS]

:ugh::ugh::ugh:More Oban madness :ugh::ugh::ugh:

I hear on the grapevine that Friday's scholar flight was so successful that they would have needed 2 flights to get all the kids home for the weekend.

However the second flight couldn't go because Oban closes at 17:15 local.

Apparently Hebridean offered to fly the trip as a charter as they have dispensation from the CAA to use unlicensed airfields but this was rejected.

Complete madness when these flights were a key part of the justification for the investment.

[The Original GF]

As from 12 noon today Oban airport will be closed due to 'volcanic ash' according to Airport Manager Barry McCaig.:D

[mad_jock]

Funny enough I am on the west coast just now and yesterday evening there were brown clouds sitting out towards St Kilda. You had a cracking red sunset to the east and these brown clouds sitting off shore to the west. I hadn't seen the like of them before.

And to be fair the Airport manager doesn't really have much option about closing if the powers that be decide its to be so.

[dont overfil]

But why close to pistons? I bet glenforsa is open.
DO.

[Deeday]

a cracking red sunset to the eastDid the sun set to the east yesterday? That must have been Superman on another rescue mission. :p

[Oldpilot55]

Too much rum, you know what nautical chaps are like.

[mad_jock]

Nah the clouds over the main land were red and the ones to the west were brown. Mind you a night out on the western Isles which way gravity is pointing is sometimes a bit of challenge.

I will see if I can get some photo's of it tonight. The clouds were like peat bog water in colour.

[The Original GF]

But why close to pistons?


Because thats the only traffic they have?

OGF

[Phil Space]

And of course piston engined vehicles should not be allowed to drive:ok:

[140KIAS]

Two pc12's on the apron yesterday. Quite a busy day at Oban and the staff were all were doing their utmost to be helpful and welcoming.

Out of hours indemnities are now £35 for all three airfields. Still per pilot however.

I had a feeling that perhaps things were starting to turn at Oban. However with this latest development it feels like one step forward follwed by ten back.

It seems to be all or nothing at Oban, perhpas because the folks running the show dont understand that your average GA visitor doesnt need a licenced airfield with all the bells and whistles.

In fact why dont they operate unlicenced other than the short periods when the Islander is operating. That could save them a fortune.