Merged: Qantaslink Traineeship/Cadetship/General Employment

[atlas12]

Yes Alliance and Virgin... a few have already left and many more will soon... doesn't look like the company is taking it too seriously either but what would I know :cool: Quick commands here in QLD, I seriously doubt anyone will have to wait more than 2 years if you enter with more than 2000hrs!

[Going Nowhere]

Not everyone who applied to Alliance took the offer. :confused:

[theheadmaster]

G'Day All,

Sorry for my ignorance, I am trying to get my head around the contractual arrangements for Qantaslink pilots. I understand that several regional carriers were re-branded around 2002 so that Eastern, Southern and Sunstate became Qantaslink. Also understand that Cobham operate 717s on behalf of Qantaslink (wet lease or some other arrangement?).

Since the re-branding, have the pilot contracts for the aircraft that are similar been made aircraft specific across Qantaslink, or does QF try to drive a wedge between the pilots by still having separate contracts so that you have to 'bid' for Dash 8 or Q400 flying against each other?

This is not a wind up or a bait to stir up trouble, just trying to get some info for a non-flying assignment.

Thanks in advance for any info that might help.

[newsensation]

The pilots who currently operate the DASH 8's (200, 300, 400) are employed by either Sunstate Airlines or Eastern Australian Airlines, each airline has its own seniority list and EBA. The Q400 is on the Sunstate AOC. The Sunstate bases are Cairns and Brisbane, the Eastern bases are Sydney, Melbourne, Mildura and Perth. Both Eastern and Sunstate pilots operate all types.

[rmcdonal]

Sunstate and Eastern are 2 different companies both with separate EBAs. If you want to work in QLD you are on the Sunstate EBA. For WA, NSW and VIC you are on the Eastern EBA. Both EBAs have all types covered at a similar pay level (Within a few hundred $ of each other). In recent years the two groups have come closer in terms and conditions rather than apart. However there are still a few small differences.

Previously Sunstate was the only company to have Q400s on its EBA and as such they opened a Canberra base on the Sunstate EBA to fly Q400s between Canberra and Sydney. A short while later Eastern had the Q400 put on their EBA, this made the Canberra base redundant and it was closed with the flying done out of Sydney by Eastern Crew.

From a pilot perspective the only real issue with having the two separate companies is that if you want to transfer to the other one you loose all your seniority as they each have their own seniority lists.

[theheadmaster]

Thanks for that information guys, very helpful and exactly what I was looking for.

Regards,

THM

[Ryan D]

G'day guys

Does anyone know from past experiences, how much time it took for QLink to send notification of progression onto stage 3?

[belly tank]

G'day Ryan,

I did my psychometric testing a few weeks ago now. I did it on a Friday morning online and I got an email next day (Saturday!) for progression to stage 3.

[VHFRT]

I had the same experience. Less than 24 hours from the online testing to the offer of stafe 3.

From stage 3 to the "offer" (entry into active hold) was a few weeks. Haven't heard anything since regarding a start.

[VHFRT]

Any updates on happenings at QLink? No word of a start here, any idea when ground courses are on? Are the new guys being sent to Eastern or Sunstate?

[rmcdonal]

Seems like a course every month or so.
Where you go will depend on where Virgin recruit from :E.
However they do have 3 aircraft arriving sometime this year so that's at least 30 or so pilots this year without attrition.

[Di_Vosh]

Are the new guys being sent to Eastern or Sunstate?

There are FO vacancies at pretty much all the bases. There is even an FO vacancy on the 300 in MEL :eek:

Having said that, the bulk of the vacancies are in Qld.

at least 30 or so pilots this year without attrition.

LOL! Plenty of attrition coming this year...

DIVOSH!

[White and Fluffy]

Does anyone know if there were any Direct Entry Commands offered after the round of advertising a few months ago and if so which base they were sent to?

[Nothing but blue sky]

Does anyone know what benchmark minimum requirements they are looking for ATM to progress to the online testing.. I meet the minimum requirements on the website but have received the 'your application is uncompetitive at this stage' email. Any help would be great... I realize this has probably been done to death earlier in this thread but things change and there haven't been all that many updates at this stage..

[PaulDamian]

Given that QL seems to have a shortage of FOs at the moment adn the foreseeable future, they still seem to be very selective with their recruitment.

Can anyone tell me (roughly) what the success rate is for applicants?
I had heard that about 1 in 10 who met with min criteria got through the selection process.

How competitive is it to get a gig with the Link?
Are older pilots (say 45 years) with less experience (perhaps 1200 hours) attractive to QLink as they are less likely to leave and progress to jets?? Do they consider career turbo prop pilots or is everyone in the same pidgeon hole at recruitment?

I guess if I'm still in two minds at this stage I'm not motivated to move away from a job that will pay more than I'll ever earn on turbo props.

[Howard Hughes]

I'm not motivated to move away from a job that will pay more than I'll ever earn on turbo props.
Then don't, the grass isn't always greener...;)

[bwr77]

NBBS

I'm wondering the same thing! I went through the online app process but needed an extra day to upload references and by the time I got back to my computer there was a PFO letter waiting for me! I'm not sure how to proceed as I have over 4200 TT 2500 multi (some jet) and 1000 multi pic turbine above 5700.

I'm currently not working so updating it with more hours is not possible. I'm wondering if it's worth while trying to delete the app and re submit or re apply under my middle name;)

Either way it's a it's got me stuffed!

[PaulDamian]

What is a PFO letter - I assume rejection letter?

Problematic, as (like most professional recruitment) they don't give reasons or feedback for rejection.

[bwr77]

PFO is a rejection letter.

I just figured they might give me a look in as I dont have anything out of the ordinary with my application.

Anyway good luck to anybody proceeding to the next stage.

[PaulDamian]

Can someone be 'overqualified' in aviation?
Would QLink be reluctant to recruit someone that might run away too soon?

[TriMedGroup]

Who knows what they are looking for, one mate just got in with less than 500 hours a few months after getting his CPL/MECIR and other mates can't get past stage 1 with a couple thousand hours/multi/night etc.

[MTBUR]

Whats the uptake of trainees like lately? Is anyone in the loop currently, and what experience levels are they roughly around? I've heard from some that the t's and c's of the traineeship are inspiring them to wait for direct entry.

[MTBUR]

Yeah, it ends up at a fair time in the company, probably a good think from link's perspective with people moving to jets once their hours reach the requirements. Anybody know how many trainees are getting through each batch, and whether these guys and girls are straight from flight school with the minimums, or far exceeding but lacking the 250 ME command?

[Hasselhof]

Out of interest what happened with the Perth base on the Dash 8? I recall lots of talk of a base starting up over there about two years ago and haven't heard much since. The QLink recruitment website doesn't mention it.

[MTBUR]

Does anyone have much experience with hearing back for the traineeship? Some have said they never heard anything back, other back within a few days saying no? QLink must be flatout lately though mind you!

[rocket66]

I've also just noted that Qlink have reverted to a pre ATPLs and insrument rating applicants and a post ATPLs and instrument rating applicants. For some raeson pilots must be leaving in droves? Which surprises me really, I always thought Qlink iwas one of the best regionals around to work for.


Rocket

[training wheels]

For some raeson pilots must be leaving in droves? Which surprises me really, I always thought Qlink iwas one of the best regionals around to work for.

It might be because they're leaving for jet jobs, rocket ...

[harrowing]

Rocket,
Have you considered extra aircraft will need more pilots?

[rocket66]

Yeah I just thought they would have oodles of apps to choose from already is all. Its something Id like to do considering I have just come close to divorce dragging my family ariund while trying to live on next to no money at all in GA. Its really my last chance to succeed without losing everything.

[White and Fluffy]

This scheme seems to have more lives then a cat!

Now being run in Adelaide with FTA, two levels again and a different bond/payment scheme to last time.

When will they give up.

QantasLink Recruitment: Attention (http://qantaslink.bfound.net/detail.aspx?jobId=95231&CoId=189&rq=2)

[AviatoR21]

Oh boo hoo! :{

[Howard Hughes]

Any movement on DEC's yet?:E

[MTBUR]

If you're about to start instructing why do you care about a program in the immediate future? surely nobody would just use instructing as a stepping stone, or as some put it "doing you're time" :}

[delta_alpha_november]

Might be a long shot but does anyone know the rough wait between finishing the traineeship and being called in for ground school...

I've heard that there are a large number of pilots who have finished the traineeship but are currently waiting for the call - most of which are currently without a job - having left their previous employer to undertake the 6 week course but are now unable to find any 'flying employment'. I'm unsure if there is any truth to this as its all second hand information.

[Calldepartures]

DAN,

Not true. All trainees that have been through Adelaide are currently employed.

[seneca208]

is entry without HSC Maths possible?

[Di_Vosh]

DAN, what you may have heard was what happened around the GFC, IIRC.

I'd be suprised if it's happening now. Looking at the unfilled positions on the vacancy notices I'd be guessing that (once again) we can't get enough people in through the door at the moment.

[rocket66]

Yup, I di the Dr Steven Holdings course at St Lucia uni in Brisbane and also the English component of the Cert IV Adult Tertiary Preparation course with Northpoint Institute of TAFE, also in Brisbane.

However still havent had a call yet:{

[amateur]

Anyone got any advice on what to study to prepare for the traineeship? I've dusted off the ATPL books, but wanted to know if there is anything particular I should focus on. Also, is there many cases of people failing the traineeship? Any info about the course would be appreciated :)

Cheers

[KingAirB350]

Looking at the QLink Traineeship - Advanced Level 2...

Given that it is stated to be a 'competitive selection process' based on merit;

Can anyone tell me whether the successul applicants for the Traineeship(s) tend to already meet the minimum criteria for Direct Entry First Officer? i.e. Do they have 700 hours, 250 multi etc.. already???

I've read much of the previous posts and appreciate that many succesful Direct Entry applicants seem to have 1200+ hours anyway.
I just don't want to waste my time and application costs with the traineeship if I'm not competitive with the otehr cohort of applicants between 700 and 1200 hours that are willing to pay for the (i) Instrument transition training, (ii) Multi-crew Co-ordination training, and (iii) Crew Resource Management training. I presume the direct entry FOs get this training anyway???

B350

[muffman]

There seems to be a wide range of experience levels amongst successful trainee applicants. Many seem to have quite a high total time, but insufficient multi hours to apply for direct entry. Others are straight out of flying school. Having more hours is certainly another tick in the box but it is not necessarily the thing that will make the difference. I would definitely apply if you meet the minimum criteria. No matter how many hours you have, you definitely won't get in if you don't apply. I'm certain they look at a lot more than your logbook when making a decision.

DE FOs don't do any of the training you mentioned - they go straight into the endorsement training process.

[eternity]

King Air....

Im not exactly sure what you're asking mate.....

If you meet the DE FO requirements then dont put in an app for the traineeship as that will make you look silly.
As far as I know.....NO person that has had the DE FO min req'd has gone through the traineeship...it defeats the whole purpose as it costs Link more money abd takes more time before the sims.

If you meet the DE FO requirements then put in a direct entry app.

Hope this helps.....

Eternity.

[Bahama Breeze]

Hello fellows,

Does anyone know what date the "November 2012" Level 2 Traineeship course should be starting? I thought it was 5th, but not positive.

Also, the recruitment website doesn't state any Level 2 courses beyond November. Hoping this is just an oversight and they're not only having a Level 1 programme after Nov!

Doing my MECIR as we speak hoping to be eligble before then.

BB

[mcgrath50]

Also, the recruitment website doesn't state any Level 2 courses beyond November. Hoping this is just an oversight and they're not only having a Level 1 programme after Nov!

The courses are constantly under review. If it isn't up on the website it's still under review.

[Spelunker]

Doing my MECIR as we speak hoping to be eligble before then.

BB


Geez. With that experience you should try Direct Entry instead.

[Bahama Breeze]

There's a 100% chance you don't have a clue about my experience.
It's my fifth MECIR.

[training wheels]

There's a 100% chance you don't have a clue about my experience.
It's my fifth MECIR.

If it's your 5th renewal you're referring to, then I believe you can go ahead and apply as you don't have to be current at time of application.

[Bahama Breeze]

TW,

Thanks -- already applied.
There's a 4 week stipulation on qantaslink.bfound.net about being current and meeting minimum requirements within 4 weeks of your application.

So should be all good. Was just trying to find out the date.

BB

[isntthatsomething]

Has anyone applied to the Level One trainee program and undertaken an interview?

Interested to know what sort of technical questions you're getting asked as you do not need to be in possession of an MECIR or ATPL theory.

[Matt J]

Does anyone know if they are still running level 2 courses? The website says the last start date was November 2012 (now) and nothing shows after that.

[tobz92_ymen]

Qantas Link have updated the courses with dates for Level 1 set out til December 2013, and Level 2 til March 2014
QantasLink Recruitment: Attention (http://qantaslink.bfound.net/detail.aspx?jobid=95231&CoId=189&rq=1)

[Swept-Wing]

HI

Listed under the Level 2 Advanced Program minimum entry requirements it states:

- 100 hrs as Pilot in Command.

I was wondering if anyone knows weather they are strict or not on this requirement? or if QLINK has been known to let people in slightly under the minimum, similar to the requirements for the Level 1 Trainee Program.

Currently sitting on 85 and looking at applying

thanks in advance

Cheers
Sweptwing

[nashed7]

Doing the Aviation course at UNISA, should come out of it with a CPL andMECIR.

Would they favour someone who done a bachelor course like what I’m doing for the Cadetship?

[pilotchute]

Swept wing,

They are rigid on the 100PIC. Put an app in with your 85 command and you will get a reply saying you don't meet the minimum.


Nashed,

The only thing they care about is if you have Yr12 passes in Eng, Maths and 2 others. A degree is neither here nor there to them.

[JustFlight]

How is recruiting looking for this year?
Roughly how many F/O's are they looking to put on in the next 12 months?

[Di_Vosh]

Username here

I can think of at least three Qlink captains who are ex-military helo pilots. One came straight from the Navy (seahawks); not sure if the others did some GA flying between the Army and Qlink.

JustFlight

Some things don't change. We're currently short crew, there's a new Q400 due to arrive any day now and we're getting three more Q400's this year. Not sure if any of the 300's are going, but late last year we took back a 300 that had been operating in W.A.

We've had some recent resignations, but there are rumours of as many as 30 pilots on the VA hold file. Luckily for our Ops, the rumoured massive pilot recruitment from VA hasn't yet eventuated.

I would imagine however, that recruitment wont increase this year. The main reason for this is because our training department can barely cope with our current levels of recruitment.


DIVOSH!

[Bahama Breeze]

Pretty sure there's a former navy chopper pilot up at Adelaide doing the traineeship right now. Level 2 (Advanced).

So definitely not out of the question, to this day.

[mcgrath50]

Under minimum requirements:

Level 2 Advanced Program

Australian Commercial Pilot Licence; and,
Australian Air Transport Pilot theory subjects.
New Zealand applicants must have converted their licence/ratings to an Australian Licence/Rating prior to applying for a position with the Trainee program.
A current Multi-Engine Command Instrument Rating with all navaids including DME/GPS Arrival (RNAV/GNSS preferred but not required)
Hold a Basic En route GPS Qualification (CAO 40.2.1, Appendix IV, Section 1 - log book stamp required).
100 hrs as Pilot in Command
Preference will be given to candidates with recent flying experience.

[S number 1]

Quick question for anyone in the know .. Approx how long does the ground school take for direct entry fo's ?

[Bahama Breeze]

The Ground School itself (excluding sims) takes approx. 8 weeks.
As little as 6, as much as 10.

The simulator, in a perfect world, takes another 3 weeks or so.

But due to the delays on the Q400 sim, if you are on this variant, expect to sit around at your base until they can find some slots in the sim for you. At the moment this is around an 8 week delay.

Line training should take around 6 weeks after doing your endo in the sim.

For the Q400 guys, it's not unrealistic for it to take 6 months from joining to check-to-line.
Sustaining Fleet (200/300) should be checked-to-line after around 4 months.

[noclue]

Just to add to the above. Those that end up on the 400 will do the 2/300 ground school and sims for the dash8 type endo. From there you'll do a 400 differences ground school (was a week in the class room but I believe it is now a CBT package) and another 5 odd sims before line training starts.

[Bahama Breeze]

Noclue,
You have no clue Lol.

That is entirely inaccurate... Sounds like what may have been the former training programme. Now they are completely separate courses.

[noclue]

Sorry, I stand corrected. Must have changed

[donkey767]

What are peoples experiences from receiving the initial email from Qlink after applying to the one stating whether you have progressed to stage 2 or not. How long was the wait? A few days? Weeks? Hours?

[Ozavatar]

I applied and I got the email after few days for Stage II
If I take it then this would be my second go for Qlink.
I currently have over 4000 hrs and a ATPL

Oz

[donkey767]

Thanks Oz. I applied end of last year and got the thumbs down - So I updated my application about 2 weeks ago and received the email saying they've received my update but no email whether I was successful for stage II or not... I am a bit confused.

[CaptainInsaneO]

Does anybody have any experience on how long they are placing people on 'Active Hold' for? (assuming they get through all 4 stages)

[VHFRT]

Not long at the moment. Direct entry is fairly quickly, so are the trainees right now too. Would be very surprised if its longer than a few weeks before being given a date. Don't expect any guidance from the company though

[LongLats]

Trainees are informed 4 weeks before the start of their course in Adelaide. FOs as little as 2 weeks before starting their ground school. Best bet is to find out when the courses start and work it out that way.

[CaptainInsaneO]

Cheers.

Does anybody know when the course dates are for Direct Entry First Officers this year?

[Glass]

400+ = industry experience. Now I know where I have been going wrong.

[oneflewnorth]

Could anyone please enlighten me on the odds of getting into the program with the bare minimums, be it the foundation or advanced course?

[S number 1]

It will really come down to how well you interview and perform in the sim. A whole range of people with different experience levels are applying for the cadet program. If they like what they see then your in, if not then well, you can reapply in six to twelve months.

[johnwells3366]

Once you have completed the stage 2 assessment any idea how long it usually takes to hear if you made it stage 3?

[Plow King]

I heard in less than half a day after doing stage 2 last month, but I'm not sure that's typical.

[michael36]

I heard back on the same day, I did the testing fairly early so they probably had a good chance to go through the results

[Joystick jokey]

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone has heard of candidates for either traineeship being placed on active hold, and what exactly this means this day ok age with QL?

Cheers :)

[johnwells3366]

Hi

I just received this email

"Thank you for your participation in the QantasLink pilot recruitment process.

I am pleased to advise that you have successfully completed Stage 2 of our Recruitment process.

The next round of interviews for the September 2013 Trainee Level 1 Program is currently being planned for mid to late August 2013.

Your application and SHL results will be kept on record for consideration for future scheduled interviews.

If you do not wish to be considered for future courses please withdraw your application from our website."

So does that mean I will be getting an interview or am I just in the pool?

If I dont make it to stage 3 will I receive an email informing me so?

Thanks

[Altimeters]

I am pleased to advise that you have successfully completed Stage 2 of our Recruitment process.

Sounds to me like you've made it through to stage 3 and they will be contacting you later for an interview date. Good luck! :ok:

[Joystick jokey]

G'day,

Been brought to my attention today that QLink have changed the info on the website to now say that the Sept and Dec courses 2013 have been changed to "TBA".

Has anyone heard of a slowdown in recruitment or has info on the situation, much appreciated?!

[tobz92_ymen]

cant pass what exams? wouldn't it only be Foundation (Level 1) cadets who have to do MECIR and ATPL's who have exams.

[Joystick jokey]

Thanks slam_click.

I had heard that they were starring away from foundation level people right now, but that level two and DE were still high on the priority list as there is still a shortage of pilots around the place, especially QLD.

Just a bit confusing as I know of three people who were interview just last week...

[Going Nowhere]

The only shortage in QLD is of pilots who are checked to line.

At last count, there's over 30 F/O's waiting for groundshool/sim/line training.

And that's just in BNE, and for the Q400!

Don't be too impatient when you get here, full pay and staff travel will kick in pretty quick! :ok:

[Joystick jokey]

So perhaps that's why they have changed the website information...

Hope that doesn't mean they will stop recruiting anytime soon!!!

[GADRIVR]

Heard a rumour that one or two small regionals as well as a charter operator are in the final stages of being bought into the Qlink fold as it were and that pilot recruitment has been put on hold as a result.
The thought is that why hire and pay when you can outsource?
Fun business this!!:\

[michael36]

so what happens to people like me who have completed the shl testing and is now waiting for an interview date in august. If it all falls through is there any chance I will see my $187 be put to good use:rolleyes:

[mtrench]

the slowdown would be due to the lack of simulator/training resources.. they need pilots in sydney and brisbane bases due to the amount we are all working, but they are losing pilots as quick as they can train them.

everyone at the moment is a cadet, more in love with the uniform from what i can tell

[Joystick jokey]

So what does that mean for people on active hold atm???

[johnwells3366]

That is not what I was hoping to hear.

I have also forked out the money and was waiting for an interview in August, looks like that will be a complete waist of money.

Would be nice if they emailed to at least let us know, its a big ask I know for the aviation industry but the rest of the world manages to treat people a bit better.

Ahhhhh a tad frustrated

[fiftyeight]

Ill get on that frustrated list.

Not impressed

[Inertia17]

Before we all proclaim that the sky is falling and it is a massive waste of time, let us use some common sense. There have been numerous reports of resource availability issues with the simulators.

Now if we consider that this process is fairly time consuming and costly for QLink, with the people for interviewing and the sim time also. Why would they continue to have these assessments if they had no intention of taking anyone?

All they have done is state the future course dates are not determined at this stage, which would make sense with a sim availability/backlog issue. So take a breath guys, and wait to see how it plays out. If they send us all an email telling us to go jump, then that's different, until then....

[antes56]

Is this programme only for permanent resident or australian citizen??

[mtrench]

i would all relax if i were you.. they need pilots, and they are recruiting.. but when there are so many people sitting on training reserve for months, people heading to toronto for sim training, no training captains to train them in the plane, it doesnt make sense to pay a whole bunch of new people sit around doing nothing..

just be patient or get a job like the rest of us did flying before we made it to an 'airline'

[DH164]

Eh, why bother learning how to actually fly in a humid dustbowl? Just become another one of those typical delicate Gen-Y'ers that finish their G1000 inductions (see:Commercial Pilots License) and continue to work at Coles adamant that the industry is dead just because 'Qlink wont pick them up'.

[johnwells3366]

Lol nice assumptions. You know my situation perfectly.

[Capt Mo]

I think those of you who are going through this recruitment process need to chill out a little and be patient - congrats on getting through stages 1 and 2! It is not a quick process and bear in mind that there will be others in the same boat who are at various stages of testing. There are interviews scheduled regularly and if you have got through stage 2 it is just a matter of waiting for the next stage of testing.

I couldn't say for sure but it wouldn't surprise me if they do hold off a course or two as there are many in training at this point and it makes sense to clear up the backlog rather than pay a new group of F/Os to sit on their backside waiting. The Link has been consistently putting on regular courses for a couple of years now and with more aircraft arriving there is no doubt that there will be need for recruitment.

The sky isn't falling though so don't get too frustrated just yet and be relieved that you weren't part of the group back in 2008 who went through the process and on 'active hold' only to be told that courses would no longer be run and to reapply in the future. Some people I knew of even had course dates and had resigned from their present job. No doubt, there was a degree of disappointment felt by all when it happened but most of us just got on with it, moved on and kept going in GA to become more competitive and reapply as direct entry candidates.

Good luck with stage 3!

Mo :ok:

[DH164]

My post being directed solely at you is a nice assumption as well.

[Capt Mo]

You will need 4 months remaining on your MECIR on your start date to be able to complete your sim training prior to its expiry.

[Capt Mo]

As far as the interview goes - you would probably need to contact them regarding this. Minimum requirements for Qlink include a MECIR so no it probably wouldn't look good not having it on the day given they process your application on the basis that you currently hold one.

[multiengine]

Hi Guys

Just wondering if anyone has been though QLink Interview/Sims recently? Any tips on what to study/expect on the day? Types of questions you get asked and how to prepare for the day? I know this has been asked before but I could not find anything except the thread being hijacked by other topics. Any help will be greatly appreciated!!!

Thanks in advance :ok:!!!

[mcgrath50]

Thanks Capt Mo,

As someone in the line at the moment, I had written then deleted a few replies with the same sentiments but decided to hold my tongue as I am not on the inside. Everything I hear from the inside is saying though it's more to do with training backlogs than a lack of desire for new pilots.

Having said that it's aviation so who knows, just enjoy the journey "Hakuna Matata"

[mtrench]

For the interview you need scenario based questions, where you need to give a SPECIFIC scenario with the actions and outcome.. make sure its good and doesn't actually break rules/regulations. if they think its horse **** they will probe you over and over and then the interview will go down fast, so have it well planned..

tech is basic IFR, but know its verbatim from the regs.. sim is the sim.. you can fly or you cant.

[Gearupandorrf]

Hi everyone,

Just a quick question for anyone who's been through the SHL Maths test.

My self confidence is a bit low when it comes to Maths testing. Not to say that I can't do it, but it's not my strength.

I'm planning to apply for the Advanced Scheme soon. When you've sat the Maths component, what types of questions were asked?

Was it based on interpretation of graphs and other data, were there questions based on ratios/ percentages, or was it more of a pure maths test with algebraic equation solving/ trigonometry/ quadratics/ polynomials/ logarithms etc etc?

I've passed Year 12 Maths, but it's been a long time!

Also, I understand that you'll be sitting the SHL tests again in Sydney to validate your online results. Are you allowed to use a calculator at that stage?

Finally, have any of you used the PATS training in Melbourne to prepare for the QantasLink assessments. If so, what feedback do you have?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give.

Cheers,
Gearup.

[mcgrath50]

Google "Numeric Reasoning" and "Number Reasoning SHL" and "Numeric Reasoning SHL practice". That will give you the idea but the questions are more like the graphs/tables arithmetic you mentioned.

[johnwells3366]

The math is easy

Just make sure you are confident manipulating numbers presented in different ways and you will be fine

[PlaneWhisperer]

Interesting to hear about PATS, I've checked their site occasionally to see about these opportunities and what is available and noticed they haven't updated their site for ages.
Think they deserve everything that comes to them, especially by continuing to post false information about current recruitment activity with certain programs.

They way they pay out GA pathways and university degrees on their site is absurd.

[Inertia17]

Another update to the website it seems. Courses PLANNED for December for Foundation. September, December and March 2014 for Advanced.

Hopefully that puts some minds at ease.

[johnwells3366]

Decisions decisions.

As far as I know once I commit to using my Fee-Help with one operator I cant withdraw part way through and transfer my loan to another provider.

So do I delay starting my course and hope for a miracle (they hold interviews AND I get selected) or start my course, try and get ATPLs done and then apply for Level 2

:confused::confused::confused:

[alpha_papa_lima]

Inertia17, misread your post and thought it said advanced courses planned for September and December 2014.. Phew!! Could have been a long wait on the active hold list. Out of curiosity how many people reading are on active hold for level 2?

[johnwells3366]

active hold?

[alpha_papa_lima]

Active hold is basically passing all stages of recruitment, and being put on a list until training spots at FTA become available.

[johnwells3366]

Dont you need your MECIR and ATPLs done for the advanced course? What else is there to do at FTA?

[Centre of Pressure]

Apparently a lot of Sims happen at fta for level 2. Their website says they do some crm and other stuff.

[Plow King]

From the Qantaslink website

Advanced (Level 2) Program and will include:

Instrument transition training,
Multi-crew Co-ordination training, and
Crew Resource Management training

[LongLats]

The trainees in QantasLink are already fighting a pretty average reputation among the old fellas for their want it all now attitudes. The other day I heard one trainee kid complaining about how long it's going to take him to get his command. He hadn't even started his endorsement sims.

I couldn't believe it. He hasn't even flown the aeroplane yet and already thinks he's ready for his command. :ugh:

Just because they've lowered the experience requirements to get into the airline, doesn't mean your 250hrs is any more than 250hrs in the eyes of anyone. You're still under experienced and the airline has absolutely no obligation to you. You owe plenty to them if you want to go from "Cessna 152 downwind touch and go" to flying a dash 8.

So be careful about complaining about the aptitude test costs and the time it takes you to get a response on here.

And for christ sake, if you get in don't post photos of yourself in your uniform all over the internet. It's embarrassing watching you. :yuk:

[Fuel-Off]

Agreed LongLats.

You lot who are getting impatient about all this, simply - we don't want you. If this is the attitude of you new FOs (ie those on here complaining)) I have to put up with on a 11hour day starting at 4am then you might find yourself 'accidently' headbutting the crash axe and swiftly evacuated through the hatch...

As mentioned, the company owes you BUCKLEYS! SWEET F:mad:K ALL. The fact that some of you are complaining about the cost of fees etc, harden up. This is called aviation and has been going on for years (other vocations charge candidates for psych tests too by the way). You are going from a C152 to a Dash 8 - something completely unheard of until recently in Australian Aviation. You'd be paying a whole lot more for a plethora of endorsements as you go through the traditional route of GA. So the cost of a pysch test compared to the few THOUSANDS of $$ seems rather small doesn't it?

I, like ALOT of the Captains and indeed Senior FOs love the Dash and the job we do. We always welcome new comers, but if you ruffle feathers by complaining on your first day, your name will be infamous very quickly and you'll be having a nice 'joy flight' with the Regional Fleet Manager (don't forget to bring the Vaseline...).

My advice, be patient. The world isn't going to end. And if you do make it, Welcome! :D Just remember that some guys have been there for over 20 years, so if someone with more experience than you is talking - shut up and listen. You might actually learn something (no...you don't know everything - heck I don't). Oh and bone up on your radio telephonic procedures, some of the new guys with very little experience sound very amateurish and listening to some radio calls are pretty cringe worthy.

Good luck lads and ladettes

Worse when you hear "QLink 489D turns finals, full stop"

Even more so when they announce themselves as an IFR Dash 8 Q400 RPT :ugh:

Fuel-Off :ok:

[mtrench]

Hilarous.. i've seen far too many new pilots at link posting the photos of their uniforms and stating how hard they have worked to get it. It's their first job out of flying school and they think they earned their stripes.. not paid for it. ****s me to tears. So many cadets think the world owes them a favour. Sick of it at link.

[mtrench]

hahaha IFR dash 8 RPT.. some senior captains say that too mind you, but still i get your rift.. my biggest is the absolute lack of common sense.. they know their books back to front but cannot make a common sense decision....................................................

[Going Nowhere]

Whenever they winge, just mention how long it took you to get your command, not that they'd bothered to ask before having a cry about it mind you! :{

Nothing like 4 sectors with the RFM to get a much needed reality check. :E

Seniority list is getting pretty long these days, and the last few commands didn't get far down the list at all. With the upcoming changes to the command requirements, the newbies better get used to that side of the Dash!

It's not a bad gig though. Get paid on time, planes are good, mostly great crew. There's far worse places you could be based, flying far worse planes for far worse people!

Like others have said, relax, you might just learn something! :ok:

[AviatoR21]

I'm seeing a lot of whinging on this thread full stop.

[iPahlot]

Just out of curiosity, do direct entry FO's with a couple 100 multi and 1000+ hours command slot in below a 250 hour cadet waiting for a command if the cadet joined prior to them?

[Going Nowhere]

Everyone is on the one list, one each for EAA and SSA that is. The list is compiled based on DOJ. Who gets the command first though is based on who gets the hours first. If you get the hours first, and no one above you meets the requirements, then you get the spot.

Excluding "management discretion" of course.

But down the track when the cadet/trainee gets their command, they will retain their place on the seniority list above you.

What is starting to happen now is those cadet/trainees who didn't meet the requirements are getting commands and the list is starting to look a bit more balanced.

Very few commands are going to people who have been in the company 12-18 months anymore. I'd imagine that if you joined today, you'll be in for a 2-3 year wait.

[Bilbobaggins69]

Only need to look on Instagram or other social media to see a few of the young "top guns" parading around in there uniform and sharing every little detail about what the qlink crew hotel was serving for breakfast :ugh:
In saying that, the majority of new pilots coming through that I have flown with do not fit this bill it's just a few giving them a bad name :D

[c173]

'With the upcoming changes to the command requirements, the newbies better get used to that side of the Dash!'

What are the new requirements?

[Going Nowhere]

Not exactly sure, but have heard they could be changing shortly.

Have heard it may be combination of hours/time on type as opposed to 2000hrs Aeronautical Exp.

Sounds like it's designed to acknowledge the fact that while cadets/trainees may have low total time, 2000hrs in the right seat counts equally or more than 2000hrs in the BK/AF/JT circuit.

Shouldn't affect too many newbies though, by the time your number is up, you'll have the hours.

[NowThatsFunny]

I'm seeing a lot of whinging on this thread full stop.

Yeh, by captains.:E


Anyway, FAM currently states:

In order be eligible for an award of a successful bid for initial command training on Company aircraft, a pilot must meet the following requirements:
 Meet all regulatory requirements including holding an Australian ATPL,
 Accrued a minimum of 2000 hours total aeronautical experience, and;
 Accrued 700 hours as a First Officer on Company aircraft and;
 Have a minimum of 1 year service with the Company since initial employment.

Dot-points 2,3,4 were added in the last amendment. It will be interesting to see the new figures.


NowThatsFunny.

[Hugh Jarse]

ipahlot,

Yes, you slot in in order of date of joining. That's how seniority works. When you join the company, seniority is determined in order of previous overall experience. In your case you would get a higher number than the guy with next to no experience quoted in your example.

When the time comes for promotion, if you reach the full company requirements ahead of someone else senior to you (with less than company experience requirements), and a promotion comes up - you will most likely get it.

Once the person senior to you (who didn't previously qualify) meets the same requirements, they may be eligible for bypass pay. That's the company's problem.

It's been a while since I worked at the Missing Link, but that's how it was. Perhaps bypass pay was given away in the EBA?

[Oktas8]

A little mixed up there.

Assuming adequately competent pilots, the most senior & qualified FO will be offered the upgrade vacancy. Yes, there might be a more senior but unqualified FO who will not get it. This is irrelevant. When that unqualified FO becomes qualified, start reading again from the beginning of this paragraph.

Bypass pay only applies if the most senior & qualified FO does not get the vacancy, for a reason that is subsequently determined (by the lawyers) to be inadequate. E.g. because a manager said he/she was incompetent, but actually the written records did not substantiate that judgement.

I wouldn't say it's a good system, but lots of experienced people say it's better than the alternative. A little like democracy, perhaps?

[bubble.head]

Not exactly sure, but have heard they could be changing shortly.

In the latest pilot council meeting, there is a mention of a revised ICUS program too.

[Strobe Runner]

Why are people who are trying to get a job with link worried about commands yet?

[AviatoR21]

Because that is the culture generated there, being the big fish in a small pond!

[Fuel-Off]

Doubt it...ever considered it could be Gen Y wanting everything yesterday? :ugh:

Fuel-Off :ok:

[NowThatsFunny]

Would you prefer they ask how long it would take at the Link before they could move somewhere else to get a command????? :ugh:

Maybe, just maybe, there are some (not all) of these new FOs who are planning a long career at the Link and would like to know. Captaincy not only comes with additional responsibility etc, but also carries a financial gain that may be important to an FO considering a family or other lifestyle decisions. After all, an FO wage at the Link is hardly good money.

Of course there will be Gen Y'ers, and anyone else you care to call impatient, "me me me", "I want it now", "I'm too good to be a FO", "I have the minimums so I should have my upgrade by now", type of people but don't paint them all with the same brush.

[tobz92_ymen]

Minimum requirements for the Advanced Program of the Traineeship have been updated, 250 hours total time is now a requirement

[mcgrath50]

That seems like an odd move. If you have gone the 'old' route to CPL you will have at least 250 hours when you qualify for the advanced course, if you have gone the integrated 150 hour course you probably won't.

So requiring guys to have 250 hours total doesn't mean they are necessarily getting people with any more experience than a fresh CPL. It means if you've done a 150 hour course you will need to go (work to) build hours but if you have a 250 hour CPL you won't. 250PIC or 400TT would be a better hour threshold if they wanted to avoid CPLs straight from flight school.

[Vincent Chase]

The minimums are just that, the last Adelaide course had an average of about 1500 with 100+ multi and a few years industry experience. Just because you have the direct entry requirements doesn't guarantee a direct entry position.

If you did initially get accepted with the bare minimums, the expected wait times before starting in Adelaide and then going to Sydney afterwards would allow you to build up 4-500 hours extra in a typical GA job.

[training wheels]

The minimums are just that, the last Adelaide course had an average of about 1500 with 100+ multi and a few years industry experience. Just because you have the direct entry requirements doesn't guarantee a direct entry position.

If that's the average experience that gets you in to the traineeship program, then I'd hate to think what it is for direct entry FO positions then? A space shuttle endorsement and 5 moon landings perhaps?

For those who have successfully been given the nod for DEFO positions, what sort of experience do you have?

[johnwells3366]

If I make it through I am happy to be posted anywhere, but are some bases more in demand than others?

Where does Perth rank?

What roster are the Perth people flying?

Cheers

[Di_Vosh]

are some bases more in demand than others?

Absolutely! Right now there are vacancies in Sydney, Brisbane and Cairns. It's most likely that you'd be based at one of these initially.

Melbourne has had a waiting list for over six years. Time to get a Melbourne basing varies between a few months up to two years, depending on what you're after (i.e. FO/Capt/Dash-8/Q400). I can only think of one FO in the past six years who got based in Melbourne within three months of being checked to line.

Perth and Mildura have the required crew complements (Not 100% sure about Perth), but the wait for a basing there wouldn't be too long as many Perth crew are waiting for Melbourne positions. AFAIK, all the Mildura FO's are waiting for Melbourne basings, so if you're after Mildura the wait may be short.

DIVOSH!

[johnwells3366]

Cheers for that.

Melbs is home but not looking to get back anytime soon. Would love to live in Perth at some stage though so at least its not too long of a wait.

Why is Melbs so popular, I know its a big city but I assumed Sydney and Melbs would have similar positives and both have a lot of people trying to return home.

Anyone have ideas on rosters?

[Di_Vosh]

Why is Melbs so popular, I know its a big city but I assumed Sydney and Melbs would have similar positives and both have a lot of people trying to return home.

Yes, both have a lot of people trying to return home, but "Melbs" as you so quaintly put it has around 1/3 of the crew requirement that Sydney has, hence the wait.

There is no comparison between being based out of Melbourne compared with Sydney. Melbourne wins hands down. (I'm not talking about non-work lifestyle here.)

A quick look at the current Perth roster for FO's indicates a very laid back pattern. You wont be working very hard there, and only a few overnights per roster. Great if you like relaxing, not so great if you're building hours, consolidating your skill-set, or need the extra cash that you get from overnights.


DIVOSH!

[johnwells3366]

Cheers for all the info DIVOSH

One last question I got trawling through this thread is that Qlink had a reputation for not giving consecutive days off. Is this still the case?

Rosters can suck sometimes, I work shift work now so not really fussed. Just trying to get a feel for what its really like out there.

[Josh Cox]

Hi John,

DITO to what Di_Vosh had to say.

Rostering, days off etc etc has quite a bit to do with fleet you are on and which base.

Generally speaking the regional lifestyle is a good one, I can only speak from the perspective as a northerner, there are more often than not consecutive days off, you can generally make requests to suit your events calender and everyone is generally pretty flexible.

It is a good job if your ego will allow you to fly an aircraft that has the propeller outside of the engine cowl....... :}

[Easie]

johnwells3366. I hope you mention all your concerns and frustrations in your interview (if you get one).

I have also forked out the money and was waiting for an interview in August, looks like that will be a complete waist of money.

Would be nice if they emailed to at least let us know, its a big ask I know for the aviation industry but the rest of the world manages to treat people a bit better.

Ahhhhh a tad frustrated

And now your concern about not getting consecutive rostered days off. Hell I'll mention it to them for you if ya want? You appear to be one of the few people brave enough to include their full name in their PPRune username. You're particularly brave for attaching a full name to a bunch of complaints about a company you're trying to get a job with.

[HappyBandit]

I'm with Easie on this one.....there are enough cocky FO's to deal with already!:ugh:

[johnwells3366]

Haha venting because I want to get in so bad, yeah Ill make the worst employee in history.

Because I am casual at 2 jobs both with night shift, it can be long stretches with out consecutive days off and days with out sleep (something I am sure most young pilots have done). Not an issue as I enjoy the money. It was not a complaint simply a question.

Thanks for your input Easie

[Josh Cox]

yeah Ill make the worst employee in history

Careful John, there is some tough competition for that title :)

[Going Nowhere]

If you don't put any roster requests in for RDO's, you should generally speaking, get 4 x 2 days off. Maybe 3 x 2 and 2 single days.

The more requests for specific DO's you put in, the higher chance you have of getting more single DO's and less pairs.

In all my years in QLink, the only times I get more single DO's than pairs, is because I've put quite a few requests in.

You generally get 8 requests per 28 day roster period. Why not just request 4 pairs of RDO's? A mate of mine used to bid for every weekend off and would get it 90% of the time!

[harrowing]

However, your mate was renowned for stretching the limits.

[Barry Mundy]

Harrowing

Good to here from you hope all is well. We'll have Grumpy Greyhound back commenting shortly/

cheerio

[Going Nowhere]

Possibly another mate,

This one was South of the border!

[harrowing]

Damn, you mean there was more than one abusing the system. Surprise!

Barry Mundy, Thanks.
Nice to be on the outside looking in sometimes. All care and no responsibility. I see the happy dog went wandering places it shouldn't go the other day. :ugh:
I will have to throw some stones at the greyhound. Cheers

[KoolKaptain]

A few of you guys should learn to help yourself out and learn to read (an EBA, which is readily available for all AFAP members to see) before you ask others to solve your problems. The EAA agreement states it pretty clearly that in each 28 day roster you will receive either 4 pared days off, or 3 pared days off and 3 single days off. If you can't be bothered finding this answer for yourself, what's to say that you can be bothered putting in the effort required for ground school & the initial endorsement, Sims, route checks etc?:ugh:

[chris185]

Hi Guys,

I have been recently put on active hold for Qlink, does anyone know roughly how long the current wait will be before I start the ground course?

Cheers

[Boeingdream]

Hello Chris

Sorry I cannot help, however I have applied for QLink and wondering what your Qualifications where to land the job. Thanks

Congrats by the way.

[Centre of Pressure]

Chris, rumour has it, its likely to be around 6 - 12 months

[Wing Root]

In 2008-09 I waited over a year on "active" hold. Some people I fly with spent a couple of weeks on hold. It varies.

[Advs]

Mate put on active in April, wife is captain and is still on active.
Went via advanced.

[Going Nowhere]

Training backlog still pretty healthy. Heard a few ground schools for late 2013 were canned due to the backlog. Also next and final (confirmed) Q400 has been delayed until early/mid 2014.

[Easie]

Don't hold your breath with active hold, it by no means means an offer of employment. Keep living your life and try not to wait around for QantasLink (that's how you spell it by the way). You wouldn't be the first person to receive an active hold letter, and never get a call to start.

[neville_nobody]

QF have one of the most ridiculous recruiting systems known to man. Dont be afraid to take another job whilst on active hold. It may take years or you may get cut too.

[skyhog]

A little bird tells me that has changed, what with the new management of a year-ish ago. So hopefully that's all in the past for anyone in the system now.

[neville_nobody]

A little bird tells me that has changed, what with the new management of a year-ish ago. So hopefully that's all in the past for anyone in the system now

Don't hold your breath especially if there is not much recruiting happening in general.

[mtrench]

I waited 2 weeks, i know people who have waited 9 months, and people still on the hold file for VA 18 months later. Take a breath, and relax

[bxhvcnvdbgfgdbh]

Are the people experiencing extended hold times awaiting FTA courses via the cadet ship or direct entry?? Thanks in advance

[Joystick jokey]

Hi,

Off topic now... Has anyone out there been for testing recently, for either of the traineeships?

[oneflewnorth]

Seems the foundation course has been pulled.

[johnwells3366]

I had an interview for the foundation course 2 weeks ago (not my best performance). Have not heard anything either way yet.

I hope they are just rumours

[johnwells3366]

I wonder what this means for the people who have just sat interviews

[johnwells3366]

Yeah possibly, but Qlink postponed this round of interviews a few months ago as there is a large backlog of cadets already waiting for the sim apparently

[Centre of Pressure]

Qlink seem to have a new step in Stage 4 of their application process.

"Reference checks will be conducted by QantasLink and the application will be subject to a full review by Flight Operations management. "

Does anyone know if the Flight Operations Management review is something of significance and if they knock back a lot of people at this stage?

Cheers

[Easie]

The foundation program is gone, if you were hoping for a spot on that, you can be certain it's not going to happen.

i don't think they would waste their resources and time doing something which they know wouldn't exist any more in the future and also wasting your time too.

They aren't that organised. They constantly waste their resources.

The foundation program was hopeless. The first foundation course had numerous fails in the final sim check in Adelaide, yet managed to redeem themselves on a second and final attempt. The second course only 3 (or 4) of the 10 were offered jobs and the third course which finished about a month ago had similar if not worse result as the second course.

Biggest problem is those guys going for the foundation program don't have to do a sim on their interview day. A LOT of people going for direct entry or the advanced program that DO have to do the sim get knocked back because of their performance to fly on instruments. Without a sim check, the foundation program lets people like that, who simply can't scan instruments get through to FTA, where they come undone as soon as they're checked in the 737 sim down there. By that point they're thousands in debt and have wasted 6 months in Adelaide.

The last of the ordered Q400s arrives early next year and there isn't anything officially planned in terms of fleet expansion after that. There are a TONNE of people now on active hold. I'm not sure how many spots there are to be filled. But it looks like they're getting very close to meeting the quota.

[isntthatsomething]

The second course only 3 (or 4) of the 10 were offered jobs and the third course which finished about a month ago had similar if not worse result as the second course.


The remaining trainees from the 2nd and 3rd foundation courses are on Active Hold awaiting start dates.

[L Poulsen]

Apparently 3 of the 6 in the September Traineeship course had their training “terminated” with about a week to go and sent home. Unusual as this has never happened before. What is gained by doing this? Why not just let them finish and not employ them? Anyone have any inside information from FTA?

[johnwells3366]

So I have been lucky enough to get into the December Foundation Course.

I am pretty excited and I know I have a long way to go before it is an issue, but a few of the older guys I work with are telling me ill never get command and if I do ill struggle to move on from QantasLink and onto something bigger? They are saying cadets are frowned upon and the inter-company politics ill get stuck at QantasLink?

[DeafStar]

There are one or two old captains that frown on cadets but I think you will find they are frowned on themselves by the greater pilot body. Some cadets are now captains and are well respected.

Without command time you will indeed have to wait a while for a command as you build your ICUS hours. That's not a bad thing. In times past a Fo would wait around 5 years even if they had 5000 hrs due to not much movement in the ranks.

The industry can change drastically from year to year so forget worrying about commands and concentrate on being a good FO. A good FO is a very valuable resource in the busy regional environment. Be the best FO you can be and the command will come regardless.

[johnwells3366]

Cheers Deafstar, bit of sour grapes from the guys I was speaking to I think.

Yeah I am in no rush, I have a lot to focus on before I even get a F/O position. Then I am sure the learning curve will hit me again once if I make it to F/O.

Head down bum up and what will be will be

[akiriczenko]

I have noticed on the Qlink website that they have scrapped the Foundation Level 1 programe that was available to bare CPL holders. Looks like they want the candidate to have ATPL Subjects and CIR completed before becoming a cadet.

Link is below

QantasLink Recruitment: Attention (http://qantaslink.bfound.net/detail.aspx?jobid=95231&CoId=189&rq=3)

[PPRuNeUser0163]

A few quick questions to anyone in the know...

have been following this thread and also recent developments- namely the cadets from fta being put on hold indefinitely...

Is this the case for new direct entry hires as well or are they being put onto groundschool courses still/ interviews still happening for DE at the moment?
Furthermore, does anyone have an idea roughly of the breakdown for next year qlink would be looking at DE vs cadet?

and lastly- with the DE mins being 700 tt and 250 copilot/me command time is this what people are getting in with or is it quite a bit more?

thanks in advance for any info

[Centre of Pressure]

ozziejim, they seem to be taking a range of hours but most people being interviewed seem to have had some flying job in the past (perhaps ranging from about 300 - 800+).

[Humbly Reserved]

Hey, long time reader first time poster.

I know for a fact that they are experimenting at the moment with taking various levels of experience, also the last two adv entry courses they ran had candidates with no less than 1000 hours each. And with them cutting the foundation course. It would appear this is what they are working towards.

Although it would seem this approach has had mixed results with some problems showing up at ground school and FTA. Several candidates failed their LOE and half of the September course got axed in the final week of FTA with next to no notice.

I personally know of at least 6 people who have around 500 hours or less who have been on active hold at both ends of Adelaide (before and after) with no contact for at least 6 months or more. What a way to treat someone...

There are various reasons for this but I do know there is a big backlog for the Q400 sim with some 50 people on active hold waiting for spots to open up, undoubtedly this is the reason why all simulator assessment sessions are now done in the 300 sim. There is also a 400 sim that is being assessed in Japan to see whether they can use that, previously Canada was used but that blew out the budget something fierce.

Toodles

[Joystick jokey]

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone has heard of the likely hood that the March FTA course is still going ahead or if anyone has been for assessments lately?

Cheers :)

[Humbly Reserved]

From what I've heard I think Qlink are slowing down their intake at the moment. A couple of guys have told me they got rejected only a couple hours after the sim/interview but were encouraged to reapply in 6 months. Go figure...

Any FTA course's that were advertised on Bfound are usually guaranteed to happen (although Qlink is getting itchy feet about them lately, with meetings held with other training providers in the last couple months)

In terms of ground schools. I know one person is on the Jan course who hasn't finished their ATPL exam's yet and another who was an FTA instructor who has jumped to the front of the active hold cue.

[DH164]

In this thread upcoming: A bunch of wannabees bawing their eyes out because they cant skip the queue in GA because Qlink is slowing down hiring.

[Advs]

All positions for 2014 have been filled

[Joystick jokey]

Hi,

Just wondered if anyone has been notified if they are on the march trainee course at FTA yet?

[isntthatsomething]

Why would anyone want to be on the March course when 'All positions for 2014 have been filled' and there are around 25 trainees on the hold file (and counting), some of whom have been on hold for 7 months? :ugh: :=

Run, run while you still can. :eek:

[Circuit Area]

On average, in general, some kind of indication....
How many line training positions are usually offered at QLink each year?

I understand that this changes with demand, but there must be a range for attrition, resulting from retirement, resignation and termination.

Assuming that there are about 200 Dash8 drivers for 50 aircraft, then a 15% attrition rate is probably going to be about 30 pilots per year. Is this realistic???

So if they have 3 intakes per year, then it is going to be about 10 per intake?

Assumptions assumptions.....

[HappyBandit]

Things have slowed again although there is another 400 due later in the year I believe. Regarding attrition rates, even when majors were hiring like crazy I was told on good authority that the rate is still fairly low. On average over a 10 year timeframe I would guess it would be approx 5 pilots per year from the north of the border operations. No idea on south. The pilot approximation of 200 that you give is now roughly the number of pilots north of the border. So all up around 450 to 500.

[0tto]

I was told recently by management that they project an attrition rate of 10% per year, however so far it has been about 5%. Looking at the lists, there are currently about 494 pilots in EAA and SSA. So the company are projecting an attrition rate of 25 pilots per year.

The additional aircraft that is coming in the middle of the year will adds another 10. All up, my guess would be 35 pilots minimum. This can all change when the major starts recruiting. :ok:

[Jetdream]

I wonder if they will still accept direct entry FO's? The website seems to indicate they will.

[Humbly Reserved]

Rumor has it that they are switching training providers at the moment and they want to clear out the backlog that they are currently experiencing before bringing in more people. Also since they have experienced numerous problems with the foundation course's of cadets (tail strikes and all) they have cut any future courses of those out entirely. Expect fewer traineeships in the future with the emphasis being placed back on direct entry(as it should be!).

I've heard UNSW aviation might be getting that contract. Although lord knows how, as they currently do not possess any simulators or any type of airline transition training... will be interesting to see what happens.

Humbly.

[HappyBandit]

Rumor has it that they are switching training providers at the moment and they want to clear out the backlog that they are currently experiencing before bringing in more people. Also since they have experienced numerous problems with the foundation course's of cadets (tail strikes and all) they have cut any future courses of those out entirely. Expect fewer traineeships in the future with the emphasis being placed back on direct entry(as it should be!).

I've heard UNSW aviation might be getting that contract. Although lord knows how, as they currently do not possess any simulators or any type of airline transition training... will be interesting to see what happens.

Humbly: Your name should be altered to Humbly_aknob. Firstly, the courses aren't primarily being stopped due to the so called problems experienced, simply that they don't require anymore personnel at the moment for various reasons including training resources, uncertainty with corporate direction, attempting to minimise costs etc etc etc.

Secondly, whilst I do not wish to begin the cadet/traineeship vs direct entry debate yet again, there is no evidence to suggest that trainees/cadets are anymore or less competent than direct entry (primarily from a manipulative skill base) after all I don't know too many direct entry guys that have flown 29 tonne Baron's around.

[Hempy]

I don't know too many direct entry guys that have flown 29 tonne Baron's around.

No, but one day you may wish that the guy flying the 29 tonner had once flown a Baron...

[Humbly Reserved]

Happy, please read the post more carefully. I have seen the emails sent that state the foundation course was being axed due to some problems caused....This is not the Traineeship which is an entirely different course. At the moment the Traineeship has been put on hold due to pilot demand, training supply and training restructure.

In all fairness I believe that a person should be hired based off aptitude not years of service. However, for some years now there has been discrimintation against direct entry guys in favor of these course's candidates, but thats another story...

As of last week, an internal email was sent around notifying all those concerned that all recruiting is on hold till July this year, and ground schools will be run 1/2 as often with traineeships not resuming for at least a year.

Humbly_Aknob!

[ozziejim]

Over 4 months since the last update on this, anything new?
Any ideas to start intakes again for Advanced Traineeship?
Will we ever see the foundation course run again?
Direct Entry?
Expecting much future growth etc?

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Yes, no, no, no and not really.

The music appears to have stopped.

SN

[Plow King]

SN, are you implying the hold file has been emptied? Would be good to know either way after the last 8 months on hold. If that's the case we can chalk this one up to experience and move on.

PK

[Fuel-Off]

In case you guys haven't noticed the industry is actually contracting. None of the majors are making money and those companies who are, are tightening their belts. Unless some money is found and given to the monkey organ grinder, the music won't be starting for some time yet.

Ask the fellas who are on the VA hold file how long a piece of string is...(8+ years for a command there)

Ask the QF guys who have been captains for 15 years getting DEMOTED or taking up redundancies...(most junior captain I believe has a start date of '98 or something around that ball park)

QLink is beginning to see a small surplus of pilots due to the acceleration of retirements of the classic fleet and no replacement Q400s. Last new ship arrives from Canada soonish (and therein closes the order book with Bombardier for now) with two -200's been sold to a leasing company and about to depart our shores. A -300 has been removed from MEL and the classic crews there have been told of 'other opportunities'.

Starting to see a picture here?

The industry is going through a 'correction' in economic terms, as to when and how it improves, guess that's the mystery isn't it?

In a nutshell, look at the big picture and don't be so impatient!

Fuel-Off :ok:

[Plow King]

Thanks Fuel-Off, duly noted. It was not my intent to appear impatient, quiet the opposite - the ONLY reason I sought any guidance on the matter was so I could further evaluate my commitment to the operator I am currently working for if there was a likelihood that nothing will eventuate at QLink (I make this statement based on the impression that the company went a little cold on the idea of trainees around the time of my traineeship.) My current employer has been extremely accommodating given that there may be the possibility of me being out the door, and I would like to give him some ROI if it looked like a long term prospect.

PK

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Plow King
I would have to agree with Fuel- Off, QLink seems to be contracting at the moment, selling aircraft without replacing them, not many pilots leaving due to a general lack of recruiting onto jets by VA and JQ either. To be honest I think the pilot shortage is now well behind us. Anyone who wants a jet job now has to pretty much go O/S to get a start on anything worth while.

There may well be a hold file and they may take a few here and there but that's about it. To me it looks like they are overstaffed especially in QLD but then again I don't run the show.

SN

[seneca208]

Any rumours as to what's happening with Direct Entry recruitment for 2015? Is there a hold file? Heard a few rumours that some bases/fleets are short on drivers. Also heard the cadets haven't worked out as well as planned.

[Going Nowhere]

Depending on what you believe, there'll be no shortage of drivers in the near future.

[TOGA Flex]

Agree with Going Nowhere & Soup, surplus at present. However, with the recent changes you can add many more to the un-happy dash driver list. Recent ex dash drivers have left to Jet Connect, Skippers, Network, Cathay and Flydubai. Believe it or not there has been movement in the VA hold file for S/O 777 and some lucky individuals direct B737 (NZ basing however) not to sure if any dash drivers? There are many more eager to move on with the current 'network changes'. Hopefully with this projected attrition redundancies will be avoided in the near future and the surplus can be effectively mitigated. But unless you have a space shuttle type rating with 3 moon landings in the last 90 days, I wouldn't count on the chances for an interview at qlk any time soon.

[lee_apromise]

Forget about 2015, how about 2016? What are we looking at?

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Lee
Who know's, that will depend on the state of the economy. The euro zone seems to be on the downhill run still and the US may get sucked into that as well. If all goes well I would say we are looking at no airline growth in Australia for around two years or so, just consolidation, little if any bulk employing. Any real employment will be in Asia if your up for it. The biggest problem we have in Australia is not so much the lack of employment, as big of a problem as that is, but its the quality of the employment that is ultimately attainable.

SN

[lee_apromise]

Lee
Who know's, that will depend on the state of the economy. The euro zone seems to be on the downhill run still and the US may get sucked into that as well. If all goes well I would say we are looking at no airline growth in Australia for around two years or so, just consolidation, little if any bulk employing. Any real employment will be in Asia if your up for it. The biggest problem we have in Australia is not so much the lack of employment, as big of a problem as that is, but its the quality of the employment that is ultimately attainable.

SN

Damn, it's just getting harder every year to go back home with a positive job prospect. I guess until then I guess it's better for me to stay in Asia. Thanks for your inputs Soup Nazi.

[TOGA Flex]

Any idea to when interviews/ ground school to take place. Guessing prob only after the sunny EBA has been voted through?

[DancingDog]

Came across this today: UNSW to offer ?QantasLink approved? pilot training scheme | Australian Aviation (http://australianaviation.com.au/2015/08/unsw-to-offer-qantaslink-approved-pilot-training-scheme/)

Now I don't fly for an airline and by the looks of it the finer details are yet to be released, but I would urge anyone looking at this training program to not place their bets on getting a job at the end.

I know guys who completed the QantasLink cadetship and it's now been roughly 18 months since completion with still no position in sight. Now they've got this new trainee pipeline as well.

[training wheels]

What's the latest employment prospects with Qlink? They seem to be advertising briefly, then the ad disappears for a few weeks and then reappears again. This is their latest ad but with a slight adjustment in their minimums where they now accept 250 hours or greater as a co-pilot in a multi-engine turbine, multi-crew aircraft.

https://qantas.taleo.net/careersection/026197/jobdetail.ftl

So, are they still interviewing?

[Average Joe]

What's the latest employment prospects with Qlink? They seem to be advertising briefly, then the ad disappears for a few weeks and then reappears again. This is their latest ad but with a slight adjustment in their minimums where they now accept 250 hours or greater as a co-pilot in a multi-engine turbine, multi-crew aircraft.

https://qantas.taleo.net/careersection/026197/jobdetail.ftl

So, are they still interviewing?

With EK's lower mins, continuous Cathay interviews, and about 50 cadets in QantasLink hearing whispers of mainline recruitment, QantasLink does need guys VERY soon. Interviews to continue.

[Ken Worth]

As a general rule, if a person had completed the online psychometric testing:


How long would the said person expect to wait before hearing of the outcome?


Also would it be a fair assumption if nothing was heard after three weeks that the result was unsatisfactory and that is the last the said person will ever hear of Qlink recruitment?


Another thing, does anyone know of anyone who is employed by the above outfit who has not completed year twelve schooling?


Thankyou.


Ken

[Fujiroll76]

All training resources are currently tied up with Jetstar NZ so don't expect a ground school until Jan/Feb. Rumour of a ground school every 6 weeks from then on with usually 6 per course.

Regarding the psych testing - its well known that these are issued to most applicants, those who are willing to pay and do somewhat well..will likely get an interview..keeping in mind jetstar nz interviews are taking up most of these slots.which could be a reason for the slower process.

plenty of movement thats for sure so good luck to all - excellent company to work for :ok:

[Fuel-Off]

Not sure about time frames but usually it depends on the applicable department's workload when they give the thumbs up or the thumbs down.

Highabove: In the way of SHL goes and it's applicability to other elements of the Group - it's all individual - no previous credit given. If you pass the SHL for QLink, you'll still need to do it for Jetstar and Jetconnect. Which shouldn't be too bad, if you pass it once, you should be able to do it again. Pain in the posterior though.

Oh and another thing for the wannabes out there: Apparently the recruiters are struggling to find successful applicants (but no shortage of those applying). Usually lack of IFR technical knowledge, flying prowess and ability to form a coherent sentence during the panel interview is letting a few of the guys down. Bums up and heads down into the books!

Fuel-Off :ok:

[VH DSJ]

Anyone know when Direct Entry recruitment will start happening again? Wouldn't mind getting back to regional flying again.

[Toluene Diisocyanate]

Flexible working environment
Absolutely NOT.

[smiling monkey]

It's back on the Qantas careers website.

https://qantas.taleo.net/careersection/026197/jobdetail.ftl?job=026197&lang=en&portal=126101381138

BTW, what exactly is "An Expression of Interest"? Are they offering real job opportunities here or is it just to populate a 'hold file'?

[Oktas8]

Expressions of interest:

If they like you, they will at some point in the not-too-distant future offer you a job.

However, if they don't like any of you who "express interest", no-one will be offered jobs. As they haven't actually said that jobs are available, this is not dishonest.

The term is however a two-sided coin. If you express interest and you don't like the terms on offer, you can say no without being seen as wasting their time. After all, you were only expressing interest, not actually applying for a job.

Good luck.

[V1...]

G'day guys,

Just wondering if anyone knows how the Qlink hold file works?
If more courses are run, is the start date based chronologically on when people are interviewed and accepted or merit of the applicants?

I'm sorry if this question has been asked before.:O

[Di_Vosh]

If more courses are run, is the start date based chronologically on when people are interviewed and accepted or merit of the applicants?


Unlikely.

The Qlink hold file is reasonably large and some applicants have been on it for up to two years.

Obviously, the hold file contains applicants who've been successful in all the interview stages but there is no current position for them. These pilots will have differing qualifications, degrees, hours, and endorsements.

When the a ground school is generated, the company may have preferences for pilots with certain qualifications or endorsements, based on the projected needs at that time. For example, the company may want pilots with (or without) an ATPL.

Based on whatever the needs are at the time, the company will contact those applicants preferentially over others, regardless of when they made it onto the hold file.

DIVOSH!

Disclaimer: The above is my opinion only.

[VH DSJ]

They advertised yesterday on seek!


QantasLink First Officer - Expression of Interest



Why are they advertising when there are people still on the hold file? Also heard on the grape vine that there are people currently doing psych testing for stage 2. Seems strange to me when, as Di Vosh says, the hold file is huge and there are people on the hold file for 2 years or so. What's the story?

[Centre of Pressure]

Rumoured that they emailed all Traineeship hold candidates saying that Hold file is no more and the applicants are encouraged to apply for Direct Entry.

[Di_Vosh]

Why are they advertising when there are people still on the hold file?

I can think of a few reasons. Just because you're on a hold file doesn't mean that you meet the current needs of the company. If an applicant was placed on the hold file due to the then needs of the company and those needs have changed, then the company may hire without emptying it's hold file.

I have no idea whether

Rumoured that they emailed all Traineeship hold candidates saying that Hold file is no more and the applicants are encouraged to apply for Direct Entry.

is true or not. IIRC VA did that a few years ago. Don't know if Qlink have done it.

My advice:

It's better not to try to second-guess how any company interviews, accepts applicants, or (in this case) administers a hold file.

What I have heard, is that the company is expecting a large turnover of pilots this year. If that happens, then they'll be recruiting anyone they can get.

DIVOSH!

[atacht2015]

Any idea to when interviews/ ground school to take place. Guessing prob only after the sunny EBA has been voted through?

[Fuel-Off]

That's all been sorted last year. Apparently interviews will start up again when the NZ operation has had all its bugs ironed out. That apparently, may take some time...

Fuel-Off :ok:

[startingout]

Interviews starting next week onwards...

[VanDriver01]

Hey anyone receive emails from Qlink on SHL interviews? I got 2 emails with same time stamp one saying off to do SHL next one saying better luck next time. Pretty confusing as neither email refers to each other and the fact the time stamp is the same. Wondering if anyone else got something similar from Qlink?

[L'aviateur]

Is it possibly that Qantas will return to recruiting guys with just a CPL (Traineeship) like before? Did this work out for them, or were there too many issues?

[Spex]

Anyone completed QLink aptitude testing this year and heard a go or no go for next stage yet? Anyone know how long till JetStar NZ finish their recruiting and free up Qlink slots?