Merged: Qantaslink Traineeship/Cadetship/General Employment

[eternity]

I think you will find The Hill was referring to the direct entry side of things.

When they release the next round of interviews they email every person who is on the list waiting for interviews.
Its a 'first in best dressed' scenario, so you gotta be quick!!!!

If you miss out the first time they dont 'banish' you from the list, they'll just keep sending you emails with interview offers.

The Hill - mate get your phone set up so it beeps and rattles when you get an email. That way you can reply to an interview invite within minutes.:ok:

[The Hill]

cheers eternity, thanks for the tip, going to bide my time and wait for a better opportunity. Would have thought getting an interview would be based on merit, not who has the iphone and who doesn't

[jetz01]

Anyone know what sort of hours have been required to proceed to stage 2 in the first round of the traineeship? Ive got over a thousand and got the "not competitive" letter...

[Professional Amateur]

I would suspect that QLINK wants about the 300 – 400 mark. This is just above what they have advertised for and this may be what they want. Remember just because you have the hours/minimums does not mean you are competitive. I’m sure other factors are taken into account such as degrees, further education and previous work/life experience.

If someone has 1000h solo flying around Broome in a single with tourists so what. Yes they may have hours but they may also have developed bad habits. This may be a sweeping generalization however from a HR perspective this may be one of their criteria. They may want green pilots to mould into the company SOPs without too much ‘but I did it this way in my old job’ attitude.

If they are getting guys with high hours then the ATPLs will come quicker which means more outlay for QLINK. This is a business after all.

This is all speculation however it may provide a little food for thought regarding their Trainee recruitment process.

[FL170]

No point speculating what you think - professional amateur. Hard facts are what people are looking for in this forum, of which I have one to offer.

I know of someone with circa 1000 hours S/E Instructional who got an online psych test offer. Puts to rest any claims that QLink are only looking for low hour guys.

If you've got something to offer and meet their requirements there is no reason why you haven't got a chance. Don't think so hard about it.

FL170

[biggles7374]

Could anybody PM me with a contact telephone number for the QLink Traineeship.

I recently got a letter saying that they cannot progress my application due to not meeting all of the minimum criteria - But after checking and double checking I certainly do!! I need to sort this out.

I have tried to find this information out but with no success. Can anybody help??

Cheers

Biggles

[fatalbert1]

Just email them. Worked for me.

[hornet0011]

Has anybody that was invited & completed the stage two phsyc testing with QL Direct entry heard anything back yet?

Hornet

[bvsbvs]

had the interview, been almost 2 weeks and waiting on a response so will let you know!

[strim]

Anyone know the cost of the type rating? (I'm aware there is a bond period)

[dlx_xlb]

BVSBVS.

Im sure a lot of us on here, would like to know, what sort of experience you have.

[rmcdonal]

As a rough guide only:
Currently looking at 2000hrs with an ATPL and 500 or so Multi for Direct Entry
Looking for the minimum direct entry requirement less the multi for the traineeships.
Company are looking at several new toys in the not to distant future. Most new FOs going to BN Base.
Hardest base to get to is Melbourne, looking at 2-3 years before an FO slot arrives, however may change if any more 400s are moved down that direction.
Hopefully the seniority lists for Sunstate and Eastern will merge in the not to distant future and movement will be unhindered across the QLink empire (less National Jet).
Command in Eastern 2.5-3 Years Currently but prone to change.

[Professional Amateur]

RMCDONAL, for the traineeship....why would they adverstise 100hrs if they really want 2000hrs then?

[hardNfast]

why would they adverstise 100hrs if they really want 2000hrs then?

Its called minimums. They will take someone with those hours however would only happen is there is no on else left.

Its a supply and demand thing. With a lot of pilots applying they will employ the best qualified such as the 2000hr pilot, however when they are out of 2000hr pilots they will start taking 1500, then 1000 and so on.

[Professional Amateur]

Yep understand the concept of minumums...what I dont get is why there is such a big gap between what they have advertised (not asking) and what they are looking for/accepting.

[rmcdonal]

The hours I posted are just an indication of what is getting through at the moment. people with those hrs are applying, once they dry up they will get pilots with less time.

[Glass]

I have an interview next week for DE FO. I will post some details once it's all over!
Any tips from people who have just been through the process would be appreciated.
Cheers.

[hornet0011]

Just got the invitation to attend interview/sim ride.

Current TT 1900
Twin command 270

[777WakeTurbz]

Any tips from people who have just been through the process would be appreciated.
Cheers. Dont hold your breath... :hmm:

[krankin]

Anyone here done the Stage 3 bizzo and had an answer? Either "no thanks" or "here is your start date" or "your on the hold file"?

Did my interview 5 weeks ago now and still nothing!! Im guessing the answer but some confirmation would be good.

Have tried emailing with no answer so far!

Anyone??

[Osama Bin Liner]

Mate of mine found out a week after his interview, he has been on hold for 5 months now so don't expect a start date anytime soon. :zzz:

[puff]

Does anyone know if they pick from the hold file in 'seniority' of when you went on the hold file - or is everyone graded from their interview in number order and picked from that ?

Again a mate of mine has been on the hold file for probably as long as yours OBL

[krankin]

Thanks guys,

As far as i am aware, you are graded on your interview and sim. You get an average score out of ten i think. You go into the hold file at your grade out of ten. If theres 100 on the hold file and they run a ground course for say 18 people, then they take the top 18 (so the top 18 who scored 10 or 9 or whatever). If you only scored a six or so you could be waiting until Virgin an J* pillage the ranks of Qlink (that maybe happening this year apparently) and provide enough courses to get down to the bottom ranks of the file.

I just wanna know if ive even made the bloody file!!

K

[splinter11]

I dont think thats correct krankin, i think u will find progression for a start date is based on hours and overall experience, NOT when u did the interview. I know alot of people that have had an interview and got in ahead of others who were interviewed prior to them.

[metrosmoker]

krankin is right.
Not when you did the interview or how experienced you are. You are scored on the interview and sim. Then you go in the pool based on your ranking. 10 gets a call tomorrow, 6 (which I think is the minimum score to progress) gets called last, whenever that is.

As for how long to find out. 6 weeks. Sooner if you tell them you have another job pending. They say no quickly generally, yes seems a harder word for these goons to say.

[krankin]

Cheers Metro. Good to see you read my post properly!

Couple of guys i know have had their references checked within a week so i guess these boys will be getting a start date sooner rather than later.

Im sure i screwed the sim and interview a bit but im hoping that scraped through to the hold file at least! Fingers crossed!)

K

[HappyBandit]

Southern skies: Your guess is as good as anyone's as to how many they're looking at hiring....When I joined there was about 120 pilots...now there is more than 200 under one AOC and we're still short as most of us are being called in off reserve and days off. Good luck to all who have applied, its a fantastic job!

[devolved]

southernskies,

yep emailed them back right away wanting the 1st one in sept, however stated id take any of them....and still no reply..
:sad:

[krankin]

Hey guys,

I have a mate who let me know today that he had received an email saying there are no more spots left FULL STOP. Hope this doesnt signal the end of the drive for this year.

Fingers crossed for all especially the boys.girls on todays interviews!

K

[notaplanegeek]

Just thinking about it, let say you have 12,000hrs single over various aspects of aviation, But only 249 twin. Will Qlink still send you an automated email rejecting your application? :hmm:

[Ando1Bar]

Those who replied to the email asking what date is suitable for an interview might want to follow it up if they don't hear anything back. A mate of mine replied, never heard back, then received a phone call from a sim instructor two months later asking whether he'd arrived on premises yet.

In case you're wondering, he never chased the interview date up as he secured a job elsewhere.

[Waghi Warrior]

If you don't meet their requirements you will get a reject email. I know of a couple of guys with thousands of hours on Dash 8s including a training captain,and they were rejected because they didn't have year 12 ? They were able to apply on line but I believe it took a month or to for them to get the reject email which clearly stated why there applications were knocked back, because they didn't meet the requirements. Obviously year 12 is more important than command hours on type to Qantaslink, especially given the fact that these guys were prepared to sit in the right seat for a few years before they offered commands.

What you gotta remember, it's their train set !!!!!

[notaplanegeek]

lol seems like a fair system to get the best possible applicants :}

[devolved]

southernskies,

yeah man, got that same reply yesterday :rolleyes:

I replied the next day tho..

Ive heard they aim to have a hold pool of about 10 peeps. (workmate recently got the nod, however no start date mentioned).

[splinter11]

The amount of crap that gets written on here from people who think they know what they are talking about but really have no idea astounds me.

Im am certain that u will find there is far greater than 10 on the active hold file...try 50 or more!

Also progression to a start date is based on hours primarily and maybe a little bit of the interview mark but its mostly based on hours. It matters little when the interview was conducted.

If anyone who really knows how it works then post it here and correct me if im wrong. Good luck to all with interviews!

[Captain Figjam]

The crap that my friend Devolved refers to is nothing less than the truth. In the famous words of those that have gone before..... I am that solider! As the workmate of Devolved given the recent nod (yea baby!!!) I have been talking (directly) to the powers that be in QantasLink, and told that the hold pool currently (as of tuesday) consists of 10 pilots, with 10 pilots having been taken from said pool last month (perhaps the recruitment from the pool has been quicker than we all expected). Shouldn't be surprised really with the rate of expansion taking place and reports from those currently employed being called in from standby and RDO.... With respect to the "pluckability" and "plucking order" from within the hold pool, I have been told that the best way to put oneself in the best position is to update regularly with hours; as if it were a key indicator looked for when selecting from the pool. Piece said.

Splinter; As for the crap that is otherwise written, it is easy to get drawn into expecting nothing else, but one should respect anothers position (perhaps with caution) untill PROVEN otherwise. We owe it to ourselves and each other.

[BBN RADAR]

Did anyone else get sent an email inviting them to participate in stage 2 of the recruitment process recently?

It contained the following sentence: "Attached is a letter outlining the process and also answers to some of the questions that you may have."

..... But there was no attachment. :rolleyes:

I wrote back nearly straight away asking for them to send it again, but have received no reply as of yet...

[muffman]

I personally know 6 people currently on active hold. It seems unlikely that I personally know 60% of the people on their hold file. If that is the case, I'll start selling my friendship on ebay as a good luck omen.

[The Hill]

BBN RADAR

has happened many times before, they should send it through on the next email

[Hugh Jarse]

I was going to stay out of this thread, but there is so much misleading information I felt I had to contribute:

Captain Figjam, how would you know, (as the mate of somebody who got the nod, in your words) what's going on in Qantaslink?

Specifically, as an outsider, FIGJAM, Qantaslink would tell you NOTHING about their position in regard to hold file numbers, etc. That is priveleged information, known only by Flight Ops, and is not made available to the public under any circumstances. There are only 2 or 3 people within management who know what the real picture is. Therefore, unless something really silly has happened, they aren't going to talk to someone in your position (unless you are a management stooge and publishing the info here). And if you are (and silly enough to post it here), they would be able to work out who you are quick sticks. That's a sackable offence, and if you work for Qantaslink, you would know that.

It sounds to me that you're trying to make a bit of a name for youself.

With respect, come back with more information when you gain some credibility, fella. :ugh:

Splinter, under the current climate, it would be extremely unlikely that Qantaslink has 50 successful candidates on the active hold file. That was almost impossible to achieve, even during the months after AN folded, and there were several hundred experienced RPT turboprop pilots out of work from Kendell, etc. There might be 50 successful stage 2 (S&P) candidates, but typically at least 60% will be scrubbed at stage 3 (interview and Sim).

I worked in Qantaslink Recruiting for 8 years until recently. What I can tell you is the selection for appointment is based upon their corporate needs AT THE TIME. Be it experience, cadetship, traineeship or whatever. It is a dynamic system continually subject to change. Therefore, none of you will know upon which basis you have been selected, deferred, overlooked, or (regrettably) rejected..

My suggestion is that if you are in the process at the moment, be patient and stay in touch with them.

Good luck to you all.:)

[Dragun]

Spot on Hugh.

As someone who works there, I talk to 'the powers that be' (whatever the hell that means) on a fairly regular basis, and in person when I'm in Sydney. You seem to know more than the training captains figjam.

Well done, you really are good.

:ok:

[maverick22]

Maybe captain figjam and devolved are the same person:hmm:

[Osama Bin Liner]

I see they are buying more Q400's, should keep recruitment going for a while.:ok:

[Shadowfromthesky]

Has anyone actually got the go ahead for the traineeship!?
From the 1st intake which was open start of June.

[PaulDamian]

I expected that the QL-Oxford traineeship program delivered some flying hours, but it is apparently all in the classroom and simulator.

The Qantaslink website states:

"The Trainee Program will consist of:

Instrument transition training course - 6 days
Crew resource management course - 3 days
Multi crew course - 21 days"and

What type of flying training do you do?

Pilots will undertake classroom and simulator flying training to prepare them for the transition into airline operations. Other training may be included, depending on the pilot's background and experience.

It seems to be a lot of money for classroom and sim training.
I thought I might end up wizzing around in the King Air for a few hours dual.

[Red777]

Anyone been through interviews in June/July and heard back?

[krankin]

Yeah, i was in june. :{

Nuff said.

[ConfigFull]

Is QL no longer looking for DEFOs? Had a quick check of qantaslink.bfound.net (http://qantaslink.bfound.net) and nothing there.

Thought it might be because I'm using Google Chrome but for once it wasn't a compatibility issue!

[m.r.a.z.23]

Could be because they now have a page on the Qantas Careers website - might trying to bring them all together.

Qantas careers - Pilots (http://www.careers.qantas.com.au/Careers/Pilots.aspx)

and

Qantas careers - A Career at QantasLink (http://careers.qantas.com.au/Careers/Pilots/QantasLink-Direct-Entry/Direct-Entry-Home.aspx)

[goldypilot]

ok so once your app is in how long are people waiting for a reply???

[PaulDamian]

Without going back and reading 55 pages of posts:

How many hours do (successful) applicants tend to have for entry into the QL Traineeship?

I get the feeling that a CPL, with ATPLs passed and 300 hours is still going to be an outsider, perhaps a dreamer - but in any event in the company of a whole lot of other people with the same attributes.

I understand that some successful applicants to the Traineeship mgiht exceed the minimum time requirements for direct entry FO - 700 hours.
And - that the DE FO tend to have about twice the minimum requirement, 1500+hrs.

I appreciate that at the end of the day its basic economics, supply and demand, so the volume of applicants tend to rule the outcome.
However, I find it strange that, once you get accepted and onto active hold for a position, others getting onto active hold can still jump you as a result of their hours and experience. Until the Dash 8 training, it all seems to be a moveable feast. I suppose that the $18K ground school won't be useful for any other opportunities with other carriers.

[dlx_xlb]

Ive noticed on the careers website, the traineeship is no longer there?

Does anyone know if it is still running?

[bagchucka]

Anyone been through interviews in June/July and heard back?

July. Waiting for a start.

[Matt J]

It's now back up.

[like_that]

I wonder how long before they start picking from the lower time pilots...??...

[aus_aviatior]

A friend of mine got through stage 2 back in april (or march, can't remember) and has only just got a confirmed stage 3 date in october. Experience level is around the 900 hour mark with a fair bit of turbine time. So people with reasonably low time are getting through to stage 3 at least. Hope for us all :-)

[bddbism]

Has there been a trend of where newbies have been based? I've heard brissie or cairns is the g.o.

[rmcdonal]

Has there been a trend of where newbies have been based? I've heard brissie or cairns is the g.o.
All into Sunstate, with the option of applying to Eastern as soon as you are in. I think on average guys are moving across to the Southern states just after they check to line.

[bddbism]

I hope the grounding of the Q400's again isn't going to slow the intake rate.

[Going Nowhere]

Won't do, they'll be back in the air before you even get to the sim! :ok:

[rmcdonal]

I doubt the Q400 issue is going to effect recruitment, the aircraft are only temporarily down. With 7 more toys on the way next year recruitment should remain consistent for a while.

[maverick22]

With 2 back out out of the hangar today, should not be an issue at all. Giving the 400 guys a break more than anything!

[HappyBandit]

Yeah we'll take it while it lasts. Most of us been working 80+ hr a month!

[gotony]

Hi guys, just want to get some clarifications on the DE F/O recruitment minimums for Qantaslink, on Qlink careers website, "Multi Engine Instrument Rating valid for at least 3 months upon commencement of employment." Does it mean 1. I have to have 3 months left on my Multi CIR when I start line flying with Qlink? or 2. I need to have held my Multi CIR for 3 months before I start line flying with Qlink?

I always thought it's answer 1, but I have been told that it's answer 2 and it's stated in the Qlink training manual.

Cheers

[eternity]

Gotony - neither.

It means that you need at least 3 months validity before you start at Qlink (eg: Ground school, sims etc) not line flying that will come a few months later

Hope this helps.



Eternity.

[Icarus53]

Does it mean 1. I have to have 3 months left on my Multi CIR when I start line flying with Qlink?

Three months left on it when you begin employment. The expectation would be that after you complete endorsement sims you would do your first cyclic sim which puts you on the cyclic program and automatically re-issues your CIR on the due date.

Not sure where that would leave you if for some reason you didn't get to the cyclic sim before expiry???:E

Most of us been working 80+ hr a month!

Duty or stick? I have never been able to get that much stick time in a roster and I bid for work!:{

[maverick22]

That's 80+hrs stick time Icarus! Things are a lot cruisier this month though. And when I joined the company, back when things were so hectic that there was no training capts available, my CIR had expired by a month by the time I finally did my entry cyclic (and yes, I did have 3 months validity on my CIR when I joined). It was no problem though, just meant I had to do a few extra things in the sim for the renewal. Things aren't that bad these days though.

[rmcdonal]

Its a bit easier for the Sunstate guys to log big stick time, after all a lot of their sectors are over twice the Distance of Eastern.
For me to Log 80 Stick a month I would be doing 80+ sectors.

[jackson's_joyflights]

Anyone had any feed back on the September applications? Maybe they wait to view the whole pool of applications before handing out psyc tests......:hmm:

[jetz01]

Anyone heard anything yet for the Trainee Program?

Also for anyone that managed to get in on the June intake is that all underway? As in training now or already completed?

[pilot_chicky]

just recieved my invitation to stage 2

[wtfia]

Is there anything happening at any stage with Qlink recruitment these days? Anyone heard anything? Still says recruiting on the website..

[Global Xpress]

Courses filled for the year, 10 started this week, another small course (4 only I think) before the end of the year. Next course early next year, which with ongoing interviews, will be filled from ppl who have done, or are doing interviews end of this year.

Will likely ramp up again next year with the arrival of 7 new 400s. :ok:

[LEE 86]

Hey, I attended QantasLink Cabin Crew Interviews on the 8th of this month. Last friday I received an emailing saying they will be checking my refs in the coming days.
Is it true about a ground school of only 4? or was that for something different?

LEE :ok:

[wtfia]

Thank you G.X.
Yes with the 7 new frames turning up I thought recruitment would continue in full swing throughout.

[HappyBandit]

Wtfia you would think so wouldnt you as it is all us 400 drivers are doing close to 90 stick hours a month

[Spinnerhead]

Your base maybe working hard, BUT that does not mean ALL 400 drivers are working hard.

[rmcdonal]

Wtfia you would think so wouldnt you as it is all us 400 drivers are doing close to 90 stick hours a month
Must be a northern thing with all those long sectors, I would find it very hard to pull 90hrs a roster without first running out of duty.

Lee86 I think those numbers were for pilots not Cabin Crew. :ok:

[Going Nowhere]

BNE 400 crew are getting up around 90hrs/month. Plenty of Call Ins getting paid as well! :ok:

[Dragun]

Why anyone would work a day off when we only get 8 is beyond me.

[Going Nowhere]

Easy choice when ops give you a replacement day off and the call in is for a short 2 sectors :E

[Dragun]

Was it a CAO day to stop 7 days straight? If not, I'd be interested to read where in the EBA they're within their rights to dangle replacement days off as carrots! 'cos next time I'll be pushing the issue!

[Captain Stoobing]

Dragun,

The Sunstate EBA has the option of either 8 hours @ double $ching$ or a lower amount and a substitute day off.

That being said, when crewing are super short of crew they can be allowed to offer extras to get the job done!

Stoob.

[gold7x7]

This post was written a number of years ago for a flight training website. It is replicated here with a few minor modifications (but fails to address more recent developments in the MCPL/cadet programs) as an introduction to what will come next – a post on Jetstar’s Cadet Program. Although it was written with an Aussie focus, it’s still relevant globally.

I was fortunate enough to get a fairly comprehensive blurb on the Multi Crew Licence (MCPL) by a CASA friend of mine quite a few years ago before the nature of the licence was widely known or publicised to the industry. At the time, I remember I was somewhat opposed to it (this post intially came a few days later), but have since come very close to becoming an advocate for such programs – and this has a lot to do with the effect General Aviation (GA) potentially has on a pilot, rather than the benefits offered by the radically different licence or cadet program.







At the time I was first introduced to the MCPL concept, I argued with passion that the nature of traditional light aircraft flight training was multi crew anyhow… even if it was just the instructor and student. The crew still adheres to certain fundamental multi crew procedures and – if the operating methodology in the aircraft were altered only slightly with an emphasis on CRM/management strategies – the same procedures you apply in a small Cessna would transition into real two crew types. Any student I fly with today would feel quite comfortable in an airliner from a procedural perspective. Of course, my earlier argument was fundamentally flawed because I didn’t consider the long-term consequences of exposure to GA. A good or bad thing? I still don’t know.

As somebody that has grown up within the ‘corruptible ranks’ of general aviation I’ve got conflicting views on the MCPL and cadet programs but, for the purpose of my ramble, I’ll play the Devil’s Advocate and comment on some of the less favourable qualities on GA.

The MCPL was fundamentally a European airline initiative (driven by ICAO) not that dissimilar to traditional cadet programs. It’s primary purpose was to overhaul the nature of flight training to cater for a more modern flight deck with a focus on CRM, Threat and Error Management (TEM) training and high altitude flying – all tightly governed with a competency based syllabus.

Cadet programs are more traditional. Training seeks to train pilots with a full commercial airplane licence, a command instrument rating and a ‘frozen’ ATPL. Although the syllabus is heavily influenced by CRM, multi-crew and TEM training, it is focused on training pilots in a real aircraft with a lesser emphasis on simulation (until a conversion course is conducted).

Airline cadets have always copped a raw deal from those within the bitter ranks of the general aviation fraternity because they are seen as people who shortcut the so-called hard yards into an airline job without having to endure the years of ‘character building’ offered by the myriad of jobs in GA. I can relate to both sides of the argument and I have concluded, in my own mind, that the decision by airlines and/or CASA to have a licence that bypasses the majority of this might be the lesser of two evils.

Sure – general aviation offers a great deal to a pilot and provides for experiences and an education that is arguably worth its weight in gold, but I’m not completely convinced that the GA environment is conducive to the ideal airline pilot candidate.


GA Monopoly
GA pilots have an unknown history, they are an unknown quantity and it’s difficult to adequately profile them for flaws that would potentially make them unsuitable for a multi crew cockpit. The synergy of an airline cockpit relies on a harmonious blend of disciplined personalities who have a similar mindset and function in a similar way. When seasoned GA pilots undergo airliner conversion training you’re essentially trying to undo thousands of hours of conditioned behaviour and years of bad habits that may potentially poison the sterile pointy end of a Boeing like a cancer. Some might argue that they’re a diamond in the rough… but that’s another argument.
Cadets and MCPL trainees, on the other hand, can be conditioned to operate in a desired manner. They essentially surrender their capacity to ‘think’… and they’re easily assimilated into the cultural collective. Airlines want clones. They’re effectively rationalising pilots’ brains.

Airlines want a pilot that has a complete and utter dependence on the OPS Manual and SOPs. They want to employ pilots that have a complete reliance on published company policy and procedure rather than the erroneous, three-dimensional mentality of a GA pilot. I am not saying that GA guys don’t adhere to their ops manual or have an appreciation of SOPs etc, but they do develop a habit of making fuzzy in-flight interpretations of regulations and their ops manual; and they often make radical operational decisions on the fly to cater for changing circumstances – without published ‘guidelines’ – something that is generally frowned upon in scheduled airline service.

It is simply unacceptable at the HCRPT level to have a willingness to kneel before commercial pressures and compromise on safety. If a person can do this once; they can likely do it easier the second time. In the airline environment the commercial pressure is very rarely applied and you always have a broader support for your decisions – but in GA, failing to ‘play the game’ often means your job.

A quote from another post:

At times throughout my general aviation career I couldn’t help but feel that many pilots were so blinded by visions of a big jet left seat, the big bags of money at the end of the general aviation ladder and the long legs of the busty stewardesses that they soon lose their passion for flight and trade it in for a couple of kitchen knives and a large stone to occupy the area of their chest normally reserved for a heart. Most general aviation pilots have little choice but to assimilate themselves into the career-hungry collective or be left in the wake of those around them. The dissension and dissatisfaction (that evolves from the frustration that one is not flying a jet) often creates quite the hostile working environment, despite the fact that the people you’re working with are among your best friends. Don’t get me wrong: general aviation provides for a motivating work environment since most pilots have more ambitious plans for their future, but it also encourages some people to consistently compromise their personal values for the same reason.

My personal Australian experience with others suggests that general aviation often breeds a bitter contempt for the industry; for safety; and for procedures in some pilots. Many pilots end up spending their life savings so they can beg for a poorly paid job flying well-tanned Northerners around; and then maybe they’ll score another poorly paid job in a beaten up twin in Darwin. Is this really character building? Is this really the kind of management flying that Qantas wants from its potential Captains?

Before you know it, the same clowns are posting beaten up lies to Prune and online forums in an attempt to fast track their career with little regard to the consequences or the people they tread all over on the way. Isn’t it better to recruit and train potential airline pilots before the industry does irreparable damage to their otherwise innocent and uncorrupted psyche?

Anecdotal evidence suggests that the flight training situation in Australia is getting worse. Standards are dropping, the number of pilots applying to courses is decreasing, aircraft are getting older, airports are disappearing, training is fast becoming more expensive, and CASA is seemingly making attempts to eradicate the pestering private sectors of the industry. If the flight training market is failing to produce quality candidates for airlines then it makes sense that the airlines will introduce a licence or/and a course that they can take control of themselves. It is probably the most effective means – and perhaps the only means – of flight crew quality assurance in the recruitment process.

I only know of two or three schools that I would recommend to anybody if I were asked. I mean… how effective could training really be when the typical instructors are all under the age of 20 and paid by the hour? Many of these junior instructors have only been flying aircraft a year longer than the student they’re teaching! I know of countless schools where instructors teaching commercial pilots have never actually flown a commercial flight.

[bythenumbers]

There is something that needs to be said though for REAL world experience... not a flight simulator. When you do a type rating you go through the sessions and cover all the required bases. But no training can prepare you for every circumstance... failures are rarely textbook, especially in highly complex aircraft. Dealing with a strange situation is a lot easier at 120kts in a 206 in vmc octa than in a Saab or 737 at 250kts in the terminal area with low ceilings. Scenario a has nothing to do with scenario b; it has everything to do with it.

[SgtBundy]

Gold7x7 - the post seems to make some sweeping assumptions in dismissing GA experience our of hand to justify the end goal of the training organisations. I can see the point though, there is a yawning gulf in technical requirements, mindset and procedure between light GA flying and jet airline operations. Perhaps it is better for the airlines to just simply clone the pilots they need....

they often make radical operational decisions on the fly to cater for changing circumstances – without published ‘guidelines’ Like on when your #2 engine throws a turbine disk through your wing severing controls? Or when having to land on the Hudson river? I don't think its fair to simply dismiss experience, however gained, as irrelevant because it was gained outside the control of an airline training organisation. Maybe it does create a more relaxed mindset - but is that offset by the grinding in of flying fundamentals over so many years? I don't know I am not there yet in flying. All I can say is that in my line of work, experience counts because it means seeing what you are not trained for, having to think beyond the documentation you are given.

Isn’t it better to recruit and train potential airline pilots before the industry does irreparable damage to their otherwise innocent and uncorrupted psyche?Devil's advocate here - this also applies to their experience of industrial relations, not to mention the fact bringing in an untrained person means they have a lower starting base salary. This effectively reduces overall salary capacity in the long term. From my experience in the corporate world (outside aviation) I suspect this has as much to do with it as the training aspects. I know it happened to me in IT, starting on a low base was good enough for me, but I was paid 40-50% lower than the other guys in the team, despite doing the same work as well as excelling in my reviews. They had me from the get go, so small bumps were all I knew.

Maybe in the long term this is a good thing. Perhaps not having this golden end zone of airline flying might reduce the churn in GA and make the industry more healthy as people stay flying instead of trying to climb the ladder. Or maybe it will just starve the GA sector of work completely as the pool of prospective pilots dries up.

[PPRuNeUser0163]

just a quick question to anyone in the know..

with the traineeship seemingly back in full swing now and new courses starting every few weeks/months and numerous planned for next year- it seems recruitment at qlink is back to what it was in 2007/2008 when the program was initially layed out- or nearing that point!

My question is- back in 08' during the desperate times for crew- QLink resorted to hiring guys with <500 hrs as many are well aware of.. at this stage the guys hired this year seem to be those with experience but lately a few with 500-1000 hours circa have been employed..

Just wondering if anyone thinks this will be the general trend and if this will continue for the intakes next year and revert back to how it was in 07/08' with the low hour entrants.

Cheers,

N

[Di_Vosh]

To be blunt, Qlink are in the process of bleeding pilots and the rate of atrittion is only going to increase in the near future.

This is coupled with 7 new airframes arriving next year (i.e. 70 more pilots).

Qlink will be competing with J* and DJ who are also recruiting (as well as Tiger, VA, etc)

Draw your own conclusions as to where the "minimum requirements" will be adjusted.

Cheers,

DIVOSH!

[rocket66]

Hmmm interesting,

Does anyone know if they have resorted to hiring pilots whom are "close" to having all the minimum requirements. I recall late in 2007/08 they were paying for pilots to complete thier ATPL's to be elidgible. Some with as little as 300hrs.

[FO Cokebottle]

This debate is all well and good but the question is....."How much are QLink paying new hire Dash 8 drivers?"

:ok:

[HappyBandit]

Rocket

Highly unlikely that this will happen again....Most of the guys coming through now have experience....time to command for these new guys though probably around the 3-4 years as a lot of the cadets/trainees now meet/or close to meeting the min requirements.

[biggles7374]

I am interested in applying for the Qlink Traineeship but seem to have hit a snag.

The minimum criteria states:


Age/Residency/Passport

Applicants must be 18 years old;
Australian Citizen, Australian Permanent Residents or New Zealand Citizen (documentation required);
Hold and maintain a current Australian or New Zealand passport with access to all Qantas ports.

I am over 18 years old - Tick the box
I am a Permanent Resident - Tick the box
Holder of Australian or New Zealand Passport - Oops, dont have one


I emailed QL Recruitment to query the requirement to hold an Australian or New Zealand Passport given that Permanent Residents seem eligible to apply and asking if an overseas passport with PR visa would be considered an equivalent. They came back with the answer "No"

I emailed back asking them to clarify this on the basis that all other Qantas group companys will accept an overseas passport with a PR visa.

The answer has come back again as "I have consulted with our management, and you are required to hold an Australian or New Zealand passport"

Has anybody else come across this one?

Cheers

Biggles

[Going Nowhere]

Possibly due to PNG ops?

[Jethro Gibbs]

why not just get a passport ?:ok:

[AVIATOR1982]

You can't just "get" an Australian Passport, you need citizenship for that not just residency.

[Fonz121]

If you have had your PR for at least two years you can apply for citizenship. If it hasn't been that long then I guess you will just have to play the waiting game.

[biggles7374]

It is now a 4 year stint as a PR before you can apply for citizenship.

Yes looks like I may just have to wait it out but I just cannot seen why QL would be any different to all the other Qantas Group companies or indeed any other airline.

Just does not seem right to me.

[splinter11]

Its called PNG ops pal, its as simple as that.....

[Global Xpress]

Wonder if the few 'Seth efricans' QLK employed during the busy period in 2008 have an Aussie Passport?

If they were employed on a 457 visa, is that sufficient for dual citizenship or even issuing of Aus passport? Just a consideration...:confused:

[biggles7374]

Hey Splinter

Can you explain the ''simple"PNG ops thing to me please.

Are you suggesting that I cannot fly into PNG because I do not have an Aussie Passport?

I was in PNG six months ago - a simple process of just getting the Entry permit - no problems!!

Cheers

[OhForSure]

I can ASSURE you there are pilots in QLink that have PR status but DO NOT have an Australian passport. However, I don't know whether or not the company's entry requirements have changed since starting PNG ops.

[juniorpilot1234]

Hi guys I have a sim and interview on the 19th of January and am wondering if anybody can recommend a program to use to practice for the sim session I have fsx and have downloaded a dash 8 plane but the PFD is so small i cant read it properly.

Thanks

[Dragun]

Biggles there are definitely South Africans in Qlink on 457 visas who do not hold Australian or NZ passports. I would query the difference between yourself and them. Especially seeing as they're on temp residency and you're on permanent. Doesn't sound right to me either.

The person in recruitment obviously hasn't thought of the above facts and if it's the person I'm thinking of, then it doesn't surprise me.

[HappyBandit]

Junior

I wouldn't concern myself with the dash....what you want to do is use something like a King Air or something similar and practice approaches and instrument scanning....What they are wanting to see in the sim is an improvement in your scanning and performance. Most importantly treat it as though it's a bit of fun because it is...unlike the cyclic program when/if you get in! :eek:

[juniorpilot1234]

Thanks happy

FSX has a king air sim so I will use that, my thinking was practicing using the power settings but if thats not too much of an issue ill focus on the approach itself

[belly tank]

Seems like the cadetship tab is gone agian for QL....have they temporarily put a hold on applications do you think? :uhoh:

QantasLink Recruitment: Attention (http://qantaslink.bfound.net/list.aspx?CoId=189&rq=5)

[Jerry Lee]

Just a question from Europe.
I read above the last post that someone asked about passport, and an other one answered that there are non australian pilot with no permanent residency status or similar.
Well, my question is not this, but what are the minimum criteria/standards to apply? I do not see any requirements as I need to register on the website.

[rmcdonal]

I do not see any requirements as I need to register on the website.
No you don't, you just need to look harder.
QantasLink Recruitment: Attention (http://qantaslink.bfound.net/det-entry.aspx?jobid=30950&CoId=189&rq=2)

[splinter11]

Biggles, sorry mate i misread the original post, i thought u didnt have any passport at all! I dunno why they need it, maybe worthwhile probing them further...

[splinter11]

Also for those that have sims coming up, i found that using the 737-800 cockpit on flight sim x was the most accurate representation of the Q400. Just fly the approaches on flight sim with the autopilot and do it over and over again, that way u will have good situational awareness and will memorise altitudes. You can click on the 2 primary instrument displays to make them bigger, then drag the corner of each to the sze u prefer.

[Jerry Lee]

No you don't, you just need to look harder.
Oops:O Anyway, thanks a lot!

[tea & bikkies]

Just fly the approaches on flight sim with the autopilot and do it over and over again, that way u will have good situational awareness and will memorise altitudes. You can click on the 2 primary instrument displays to make them bigger, then drag the corner of each to the sze u prefer.

Come on guys and girls, show us what you have got, raw data. Either you got what it takes or you don't. This method will not cut the mustard in the long term.
Sure, put some thought into the sim prior to your ride but don't overdo it. One small variable during the sim session can change the 'predicted 'outcome, seen it happen many times.
When your in the real world and its hitting the fan, God forbid you haven't practiced a hundred times on trusty computer it will show. Consider being called in on sim reserve with no preparation to support one of your fellow pilots with no notice and you cant pull it out of the bag on the day, you get a bad record real quick and screw the guy sitting in the other seat.

Nobody likes that.

I understand its all new to you, but really...

If your not ready to fly the sim, with no notice at any time, think again.

Sorry don't cut it.

t&b

[Fonz121]

Come on guys and girls, show us what you have got, raw data. Either you got what it takes or you don't. This method will not cut the mustard in the long term.
Sure, put some thought into the sim prior to your ride but don't overdo it. One small variable during the sim session can change the 'predicted 'outcome, seen it happen many times.
When your in the real world and its hitting the fan, God forbid you haven't practiced a hundred times on trusty computer it will show. Consider being called in on sim reserve with no preparation to support one of your fellow pilots with no notice and you cant pull it out of the bag on the day, you get a bad record real quick and screw the guy sitting in the other seat.

Nobody likes that.

I understand its all new to you, but really...

If your not ready to fly the sim, with no notice at any time, think again.

Sorry don't cut it.


With all due respect, I think that's a load of s**t.

There is an acute difference between being able to perform in an aircraft or sim that you are endorsed on and fly everyday, and being in a totally foreign environment and being able to do the same thing.

You think someone who has never flown a glass cockpit before and has their traditional analogue scan down pat will be able to adjust just like that?

It's surprisingly difficult to go from six pack to glass for the first time in something like a Q400 sim. Lets take the altimeter for example. Someone who's used to looking at a purely graphical instrument (big hand pointing slightly right = too high) is going to find it tough in a high workload sim ride trying to mentally process the speed tape as they simply are not familiar with it.

From personal experience, my advice would be to practice on something with a similar glass cockpit to the Q400. If you're not familiar with glass then definitely spend a bit of time on it. You can't prepare too much.

[dreamjob]

Is it true they set the sim up out of trim to make it harder?

[rmcdonal]

Is it true they set the sim up out of trim to make it harder?
I doubt that very much, the Dash requires a lot of trim movement when you adjust power in order to keep in balance, the sim even more so than the real thing. So you should associate any power change with a trim change. They are not trying to trick you in the sim (they save that for the Cyclics later :E) that would defeat the purpose of the sim exercise.
You should be sent an information pack on the sim with power and attitude settings, if you can nail those settings in the sim it will be a whole lot easier. Just like in flight school:
Power + Attitude = Performance.
:ok:

[Di_Vosh]

Is it true they set the sim up out of trim to make it harder?

Gawd! :hmm:

No they don't! It may come as a suprise but there are no hidden tricks in the SIM (for interviews). The Sim assessors want to see how well you fly basic procedures. All they want to see are basic IF skills and an improvement during the sim session.

Note: This doesn't mean you should deliberately poorly early in the sim session so that you can improve later on. You'll fly poorly enough at first anyway! :ouch:

You can't prepare too much.

Wanna bet? I've seen "more than a few" people fail cyclics because they were so overprepared that when the cyclic "events" didn't happen exactly the way they expected the wheels fell off, so to speak.

[Fonz121]

Wanna bet? I've seen "more than a few" people fail cyclics because they were so overprepared that when the cyclic "events" didn't happen exactly the way they expected the wheels fell off, so to speak.

That was directed at guys going for their recruitment sim ride.

[Di_Vosh]

Fonz, I agree. Maybe I should have elaborated.

I've spoken with a couple of people who are preparing for their sim rides for their Qlink interview.

Some of these guys ask me questions like:

"What if they fail an engine?", "If I crash the sim on landing will I fail the assessment?"

This is after they've got their information pack! It is possible to overprepare.

DIVOSH!

[Hugh Jarse]

Listen to rmcdonal, Fonz & Di Vosh.

I did the sim rides for nearly 8 years, and if there's any advice you should listen to, it's memorise the thrust and attitude table you would have been sent by recruiting. While you'll be permitted to refer to the table during the SIMEX, to do so will just distract you from the primary task of flying the box. Memorise the data.

They're not trying to trip you up in the SIMEX. They are looking for sound basic I.F. and good manipulative skills, with a demonstration of steady improvement as the SIMEX progresses. Yes, you'll make errors. Everybody does. It's not a big deal. It's how you recognise and correct those errors that counts. If necessary (and time permitting) the examiner may give you tuition if a particular part of the sequence isn't going as well as expected. This in itself is not a fail, but an assessment of how you respond to training input. Think positive!

If you don't have glass (LCD?) experience, it would be advantageous to familiarise yourself with the Q400 layout as Fonz wrote. You should be thoroughly briefed beforehand.

Remember the 6 P's. Prior Preparation Prevents P!ss-Poor Performance.:E

Good luck :)

[1224]

For the traineeship, how many people who have completed the Oxford 6 week, $18000, training course, have been offered a position with Qlink?

My worry is that I am going to quit my job, pay $20000 odd for training, not get paid for 6 weeks, and not get offered anything at the end of it.

How much of a sure thing is it?

[bddbism]

Why don't you toughen up, keep your job, save your 20k, slug it out like everyone else and go in direct entry. That way you know if they're speaking to you, it's more than likely going to be a good thing!

[Bug4514]

Hey guys, I am new here and have been reading all your post on Qlink. I am returning back to the industry after a 2 year break. Qlink is my choice and with 3500 hours with plenty of multi and turbine time, I would like to ask the guys who seem to be in the know with regards to the company if my two year break away would be looked upon unfavourable by the company.
Also any other advice with regards to getting hired by Qlink would be great.
Thanks for your help.

[harrowing]

Bug4514
Go for it, despite advice on another thread telling you to wait for a year.
A bit of age and other experience never goes astray.
There is, IMHO, going to be a lot of movement this year.
With your experience, a command within two years would not be out of the question. There is a stack of low timers slowly building up the hours at 50 or 75%, so you could jump the queue if those below do not have the minimum requirements.
Good luck

[HappyBandit]

Bug

Yeah go for it mate....but in terms of command, I wouldn't be too hasty as harrowing suggests. At present there is a limited number of people meeting the requirements however in the next 6-12 months there will be a larger number of people meeting the requirements. Moreover, in my opinion 18 months to 2 years and then stepping up for a command is not enough. It takes you that long to get properly acquainted with the machine, company operations, personnel etc. There's nothing wrong with sitting in the right hand seat for a bit longer to get better accustomed to the aforementioned.

[Bug4514]

Happy Bandit

Thanks guy's I appreciate all the advise. I here what you are saying Bandit I am in no hurry,just want to get with Qlink and stay there. I will move up the ladder when the time comes.
Again thanks for the advise.

[harrowing]

Bandit,
You are quite right about time to adapt. I wasn't trying to suggest a command in the minimum 12 month period.
A few of the low overall time captains have admitted it is not all beer and skittles after the transition from R to L. Quite a few of us had 5 to 6 years as FOs, and that exposure did not go astray.
Call it reverse psychology, but at times I have more confidence in an FO, with bare minimum time for a command, who wonders if he/she is ready than the over confident/under competent ones who think they are. :ugh:
Having the integrity and fortitude to admit one's limitations is a strength not a weakness.
I recall the adage of a superior pilot using his superior knowledge so that he never has to demonstrate his superior skill.
We are probably getting into red wine discussion material now, which reminds me.
Cheers

[HappyBandit]

Harrowing

Red wine mmmm now youre talking my language. Yes I have to agree that some low time fos are better equiped! I recommend Penfolds bin 22!

[LandonAulger]

Hi everybody, I'm a long time listener - first time caller:

I'm just wondering if there are any whispers about the direct entry ground schools in 2011? I'm on active hold and hoping to be on the first course this year...

FINGERS CROSSED!

Cheers! :ok:

[bddbism]

Aulger

10 people every 6 weeks is what I've heard, so providing there aren't hoards of people in the same boat it shouldn't be too long

[LandonAulger]

Avi8r:

For me it was just over 3 weeks between psych test and offer for the interview.
I couldn't make the first round of interviews, as none of the dates they were offering were suitable. I sent an email explaining this and they included me in the next round of interviews about 7 weeks later.

This was my experience and may or may not be indicative of your experience...

Good Luck! :ok:

[wtfia]

Apparently invite to interview/ sim emails are going out.

Have heard a time frame of two and a bit months after online evaluation. Obviously this includes the Christmas break, but in excess of two months? Oh and the interview dates offered are another one to two months away.

Why does this process take so long? Doesn't seem like rocket science.

Require staff. Advertise, interview, employ.

[HappyBandit]

av

How long is a piece of string.....when I got the nod some 4 years ago it took 2-3 months before finally getting the nod...They don't move with haste! Good luck though. If you have any questions about the lifestyle etc pm me.

[parkbrake]

I'm keen to find out what the current pay scales are. Would i be right in thinking that you are paid whilst you do your training? Then once checked to line what can you expect to be paid as an FO at QLink??

Appologies if this has already been answered. If you want to pm me feel free or alternatively post / point me in the right direction it would be much appreciated.

Thanks

[Di_Vosh]

It depends on if you've got to do your "traineeship" stuff at Moorabbin.

IIRC, while you're at Moorabbin you don't get paid.

The day you start in Sydney is your start date at the company and you start getting paid.

Rates of pay will depend on if you're on the 300 or 400 fleet and whether you're going to Eastern or Sunstate.

Once checked to line the first year FO salaries are:

EAA 300 $54,290.00
EAA 400 $58,090.00

Sunnies aren't exactly the same but are within a few hundred dollars. The Eastern rates are as of 1 Jul 09 and wont increase until the EBA gets voted up (a while to go before that happens :}). When it does, the salaries above will be increased by 3% (any applicable backpay will be paid).

Allowances will depend on what base/fleet you're on. e.g. If you're based in Mildura you'll be a Q400 FO but wont get many allowances as those guys probably do one overnight per roster.

SYD/MEL bases average anywhere from 4 - 10 overnights per 28 day roster. Over a year you can expect between $5 and $10k in allowances.

Hope that helps.

DIVOSH!

[parkbrake]

Thanks DV

Appreciate the speedy reply. Also do you know what sort of perks the QL guys get in terms of discounted trave (both domestic and international) or are perks a thing of the past these days??

Cheers

PB

[HappyBandit]

Park Brake

Normal perks are you get staff travel once you've been with the company greater than 6 months. You get put into Category A along with a travel companion of your choice and you get discounts off Qantas group travel both domestic and international of about 70% off standard rates typically. Note you are on standby though

[Sue Ridgepipe]

When it does, the salaries above will be increased by 3% (any applicable backpay will be paid).
Yes backpay will be paid but only if you're all good boys and vote it up the first time, no matter how crap it is.

[Di_Vosh]

Yes backpay will be paid but only if you're all good boys and vote it up the first time, no matter how crap it is.

SR hear what you're saying but 2011 is a bit different to 2005.

DIVOSH!

[PaulDamian]

Do I assume that all new recruits to Eastern end up based in Sydney?

How long would it take to get back to a Melbourne base?

[Di_Vosh]

Right now all Eastern FO's are starting in SYD. That hasn't always been the case; it depends on what vacancies are at each base.

Most of the new Qlink recruits are going to Sunstate, because that's where the vacancies are.

AFAIK, the only base in the Qlink network that has a waiting list is Melbourne. It is a long list. Right now you'll be waiting at least three years before getting a Melbourne base; probably longer.

That timeframe may change. There aren't any pending retirements, but there are three Q Cadets and at least one LOI holder who are waiting for their Mainline start dates (in sh'allah). Also, there may be resignations and (god forbid) there may be expansion out of Melbourne.

If any of the above happen, then there will be vacancies in MEL. About the only one that I'd be betting on right now would be resignations. :ouch:

Sorry I can't paint a better picture. :(

DIVOSH!

[PPRuNeUser0163]

Di_Vosh,

are you privy to the type of applicants getting in to the traineeship recently?

as of about 6 months ago- I believe those with a fair bit of twin time, 1500+ TT were getting the calls for interviews-

has it been reduced much to the days of 08 ish when some of the lower hour guys were taken on or whats the go for the next 12 months ?:)

[Di_Vosh]

are you privy to the type of applicants getting in to the traineeship recently?

Not really. I've "heard a few things" but I'm not in recruiting and don't have any facts; just hearsay.

What I will say is that currently there are undercrewed aircraft in QLD. Qlink are getting seven more Q400's with the first one arriving next month. AFAIK, these are additional aircraft and are not replacing the 300's. DJ are recruiting this year (not sure about J*) which will mean resignations from Qlink.

Draw your own conclusions from that...

DIVOSH!

[Hailstop3]

Does anyone know if they are still hiring as in first stage? I see the traineeship thing there and have applied through the direct entry link but it has no closing date to it. Was invited to sim interview last year and turned it down as I was working overseas and they wanted me in 1 week. Hoping that hasn't screwed my chances, although it would be nice if the psych test still counted from then.

[Dragun]

Psych test is valid for 12 months.

[Riding the Goat]

Traineeship back up and running!

QantasLink Recruitment: Attention (http://qantaslink.bfound.net/detail.aspx?jobId=95231&CoId=189&rq=2)

Australian Federation of Air Pilots - test page - 2 (http://www.afap.org.au/html/s02_article/article_view.asp?art_id=98&nav_cat_id=127&nav_top_id=73)

[Power]

did the old qlink trainee program also cost 18k out of your pocket?

[Going Nowhere]

Nope. It was a bond over 4 years, run concurrent with the Dash endo bond which was/is over 3 years.

[fatalbert1]

Hey guys,

Can someone confirm that the psych test is still conducted by SHL and includes verbal reasoning (true, not true, can't say), numerical reasoning and behavioral reasoning?

Thanks!

[notaplanegeek]

Does anyone know what sort of benchmark in terms of experience people are being accepted for direct entry?

Also this new cadet scheme they have got going, have they started interviews for that?

[b_p83]

Hey Guys

Hey i was just wondering if anyone whom has applied for the traineeships with Q link this year heard from them or not ?

Cheers

[theahdg]

With the recruitment going on at the moment in qink and the senate inquiry going on at the same time with quite a bit of focus on the jetstar cadetship, is qlink talking in any of those qf cadets left waiting for the industry placement ahead of more experienced guys and qlink's own trainees?

[AerodyManic]

Hi All,
Long time reader......first time writer!!!

I was recently successful in the Qlink recruitment process (direct entry) and am currently on "active hold". Does anyone know how many are on active hold at present or how many more are expected to be added to the pot over the next few months?

I also heard that the latest intakes are all being sent to brisbane with the expansion of routes in Queensland. Is this the case for ALL new FO's or are the other bases still being fed. Maybe some of the latest recruits could give some insight??

Lastly I heard that there was a new intake that started on Monday with the next starting in 6 weeks. Anyone as yet been told they are on this next course??

AM

[Going Nowhere]

90% of newbies lately have gone to BNE. There won't be too much expansion at the moment as BNE has no upgradable FO's :ugh:

[AerodyManic]

Going Nowhere

By that do you imply that I will be on hold for a good while longer??? or just probably not getting put to BNE? I heard there are still a few more Q400's to be delivered, so surely they must be crewing them from somewhere??

[Going Nowhere]

It all depends on where they place the Q400's. There's only 6 to go (at this stage) and 3 of those are marked to go West with Eastern crew (at this stage).

BNE at the moment has a fairly big supply of FO's so I wouldn't be surprised if they slow the recruiting down later this year.

Given the current situation with the engineers, any expansion in BNE would be a gamble. Alliance doesn't have too many spare F100's to take any more of our flying! :E

[rmcdonal]

Course every 6 or so weeks, most if not all FOs going to Sunstate, however with the last lot of commands that just occurred in Eastern there could be a few FO positions in Sydney in the not to distant future. Most guys who got sent to Sunstate wanting to be in Eastern were able to transfer before they checked to line.

[AceVentura]

Does anyone know when the next course is expected to commence?

Or when the most recent course will/did finish?

[Hailstop3]

My mate just started on the most recent course a week or 2 ago and also got a Sydney base so not all are headed north.

[rocket66]

Just looking at the minimums for the Qlink traineeship and I think they have changed thier requirement for PIC time to "100hrs is desireable but not essential".

From memory last time I read this it said simply "100hrs PIC required" or something similar? Can't help but wonder if Qlink is at the bottom of the barrel?

Rocket

[PPRuNeUser0163]

rocket,

reflecting the recent change to the ATPL (A) requirements by CASA- I am trying to get confirmation from the company that the 100 is NO longer required..

[rocket66]

What changes have been made to the ATPL (A) recently?

[PPRuNeUser0163]

main one i noticed is PIC required is now 70 NOT 100 and changes to Night hours I believe too.

[Hailstop3]

nkand:

What changes are these? These have been current since June 2010. According to the 'current' CARs on comlaw it states:


5.172 Aeronautical experience: minimum requirements
(1) For the purposes of paragraph 5.165 (1) (f), a person’s aeronautical experience must consist of at least 1,500 hours of flight time that includes 750 hours as pilot of a registered aeroplane, or a recognised aeroplane.
(2) The 750 hours must include:
(a) any of the following:
(i) at least 250 hours of flight time as pilot in command;
(ii) at least 500 hours of flight time as pilot acting in command under supervision;
(iii) at least 250 hours of flight time, consisting of at least 70 hours of flight time as pilot in command and the balance as pilot acting in command under supervision; and
(b) at least 200 hours of cross‑country flight time; and
(c) at least 75 hours of instrument flight time; and
(d) at least 100 hours of flight time at night as pilot in command or as co‑pilot.


Not sure where this change in night time is? I'm 3 hrs short of my 100 so if you know of some new change please do tell.

[N4sir]

not 100%, though prior to the changes I thought you may have been able to use dual time at night to meet the 100 hours night requirement. It is now as stated above.

[maverick22]

Yes, up until about 2 yrs ago you could count dual night hours towards the night component, but that changed as per marcuste747's post.

[-_HowUdoiN_-]

Hey people,

Just to answer a few q's about the current recruitment situation as this forum was a massive help when I was going through the ropes..

Current course started 18/4

Ten on course

3/10 are Qlink trainees

3/10 are sunstate

9/10 are sustaining fleet

Avg hours: 2500 total

Psych: SHL Verbal/Numerical/Personality

Sim: Q400 ML 16 ILS/TWIN LOC and general handling

Interview: Technical and behavioral - know your IFR theory

They are still conducting interviews as of this week.


Hope this helps someone

[fatalbert1]

Anyone have any recent info on ground courses? Is there much of a backlog of guys in the hold file?

I know of a fair few guys getting the rejection letter lately, some of them bizarrely after reference checks were carried out.

[Di_Vosh]

I know of a fair few guys getting the rejection letter lately, some of them bizarrely after reference checks were carried out.

I've given out plenty of advice to people applying to Qlink. One of the more important things is regarding referees.

If Qlink like you at stage 3 and do a reference check, your referees are going to have some pretty "in depth" questions thrown at them. So choose your referees well. Let them know that they are going to be one of your referees and that Qlink will be asking some pretty thorough questions regarding yourself.

Don't pick a mate who may well say something like "Yeah, Davo is a good bloke, but gets a bit punchy on the piss."

Sounds like simple advice but I heard some amazing stories from referees when I was interviewing (back in my I.T. days). I've also been contacted by employers regarding so-and-so and to my comlete suprise I've been his referee.

DIVOSH!

[aviationboy]

Wow the T's & C's of the traineeship program are pretty bad....

$2000 upfront payment, followed by salary sacrifice of the remaining $16,000 over 3 years? :yuk:

It used to just be a 3 year bond :E

[maverick22]

I think you'll find it was a 4 year bond, concurrent with the 3 year bond for the endo

[JustJoinedToSearch]

Aviationboy, you will find that for the last 12 months it was 18,000 pay all upfront. You may or may not get a Job.

Supply and demand for you, obviously not getting enough monkeys, now offer another peanut (well delay the giving back of said peanut).

[overhere]

It was actually $18K but you get 75% back over 3 years.

Now it's all at the expense of the applicant (by salary sacrifice) so the new deal, while appearing better on the surface is actually costing more then before.

[tarmac12]

Hi,

Anyone going to interview and Sim in September? Anyone got a good tip on a place to stay nearby?

[Hourbuilding]

Hi all,

I'm a newbie and wannabe working towards CPL part time with a view to getting into QLink. I've read the previous posts in this thread, but just wanted to get an update on hours required and time to progress to Captain on the Dash 8. After my MECIR and a few hours of development, I don't expect to have any more than 500 total time, with about 100 ME. Hope to do my ATPL asap after CPL.

* The direct entry states min 700 hours, however the talk is more like 1500 hours for direct entry, is this right?

* The traineeship is 100hrs min PIC, but, as the selection is still merit based following the course completion, should I expect that trainees with higher hours and better ratings will be ahead of the pack? How many hours doa the successful trainees have?

* Movement from FO to Cpt is noted on the bfound as 3-4 years. However, info I have got at this stage suggests more like 5-6 years - is this right??? I appreciate that movement is dependent on the industry and demand/recruitment of pilots jumping from regionals to jets.

* The website also says that they place pilots at their base of choice where a vacancy exists, but what realistic chance is there of getting recruited to Melbourne as a recruit? As well as being disadvantaged because I'm 43, I'm a bit tied to Melbourne with wife and kids. If work was accepted interstate, how quick can a transfer back to Melb take place. Presumably getting command would mean going interstate again for a vacancy??? (Don't get me wrong, if I scored a gig as a FO, I'd quit my job and relcoate or commute to whereever I'm offered whereever it was.)

I've read all the kerfuffle about the traineeships and cadetships and know there is significant controversy. I'm not really sure whether doing the traineeship will actually give me an advantage to get into QLink.
If it does, then I'll spend the money and do it. I presume the multi-crew training that is delivered to trainees gets delivered direct entry pilots anyway.

And if I don't make it, at least I'll have the satisfication that tried, albeit too late in life.

Cheers,

Hoursbuilding

[maverick22]

Hourbuilding,

A Melbourne basing is pretty much out of the question straight up. It would take several years to get there as it is a stable base with a long waiting list for guys who want to get back there. The main thing is you want to get a base which is on the Eastern AOC (Sydney, Mildura, Perth now) so that you are able to transfer to Melbourne eventually. If you are based in Queensland (Brisbane or Cairns) you will be on the Sunstate AOC and cannot transfer down South. You will effectively need to resign and take up employment on the Eastern AOC at the bottom of the seniority list. Many people have done it though and some have finally made it to Melbourne, but it took a few years.

In terms of command, well if you join the company with bugger all hours, then don't expect to have a command in 3 years. It probably will take 5 or 6 years. The company requirement is ATPL, 2000 hrs Total Aeronautical Experience and 700 hrs on type. Even with the ICUS program this will take a while to achieve, as many guys who joined with 250hrs are finding out.

Hope this helps

[Hourbuilding]

Thanks for the feedback. Yes, I expected that recruitment to Melbourne would be unlikely. Just have to pack up the wife and kids and move for a while. I don;t expect that commuting is going to be effective either and presume that I would need to live within 1 hour of the base.

I'll apply as soon as a can, but would like to have at least DE mins of 700 before I apply, even as a trainee. Happy to wait 5-6 years for command.

What are the rosters like? How many days on/off as a rule?

Was wondering if I could commute home when I'm not working and relcoate myself temporarily in Sydney or Mildura. (I've read that Mildura is pretty stable)

[Di_Vosh]

As Maverick has said, it's highly unlikely you'll get recruited into Melbourne.

Commuting is possible from Sydney or Mildura, but unless you've got private finance, it's only realistic from Mildura. It cost me around 8k p.a. to commute out of there; the last bloke who got his Melbourne basing said it cost him around 11k p.a. to commute.

This commuting cost is mainly rent and living expenses in Mildura plus the cost of getting home (staff travel) around 3 times per month. (Assuming you'd live in the pilot house. Rent there was somewhere around $80.00 per week per person last I heard)

The good thing about Mildura is that it's relatively easy (for an FO) to be based there and it's a great base! :ok:

Time to command, pretty much as Maverick says. Also depends on your base and fleet. Quickest times to command are in Sydney atm. If you're an FO in Melbourne the time is longer unless you want to relocate to Sydney.

Hope this helps.

DIVOSH!

[Di_Vosh]

Oh yes.

Rosters also depend on fleet/base. Right now the Sydney guys are getting flogged. In Melbourne on the classic fleet we've got it pretty cruisy. In Cairns as an FO on the classic you're bored to death!

New Eastern EBA is now in line with the Sunstate EBA of: 8 or 9 days off per roster. Typical shift is a 5-and-3 overnight. There are some variations of this (e.g. Sydney also has day shifts and Mildura only has overnight shifts on the weekends).

DIVOSH!

[harrowing]

Be aware that you will not have the use of staff travel for six months.
I took my first command in Cairns after having been an F/O for six years and commuted for 18 months.The novelty wears off rapidly, getting home about three times a month with growing children. There were a couple of us doing this and we were all worse off financially with the commute and accommodation, although the benefit of command hours was obviously the reason and a compensation.
Mildura could be a good option for you although I am Brisbane based and not too sure of the vacancies and movement. Good luck with following your dream, or addiction as your wife may call it.

[harrowing]

Hourbuilding,
The minimum requirements are flexible on a supply and demand basis. One lucky chap a few years ago had his twin endorsement provided by the company on a Kingair. Right place, right time and a good attitude all help.
You may enjoy this soundtrack. I know I still do. Cheers
Jeff St. John - Teach Me How To Fly (1972) - YouTube
We have a few music lovers wearing wings.

[startingout]

Asking on behalf of a mate who just lurks. How long is it from QantasLink telling you your in hold pool with a expected course date until employment offer?

[Hailstop3]

for last post ^^^

How long is a piece of string is your answer. I have seen and heard of everything from 1-2 months out to 6+ months. Seems it's based on what your experience is and what you have to offer, and of course their current vacancy situation

[rocket66]

Geez they had different tastes in music in the 70's.

Here's my favourite 70's song attached to a modern day video clip. You may have seen it but I'll post it anyway. LOVE IT!

Got no idea how to post it via iPhone so YouTube below!

Steppenwolf - Magic Carpet Ride

posted by a Nick0172

rocket

[PA42400LS]

PPL at the moment with 372 hours but not current. Have enough money and time to progress to ATPL and was thinking about QL int eh next 3 years or so when I can generate the mins, maybe 1200 hours. However, I have a black mark against my name from 20 years ago (summary/minor offence, no drugs or dishonesty or violence), plus a drink driving over 10 years ago. Was a bit worried about the criminal history check.

What do Qantas check with the criminal history? Is it just the standard employment check issued by the Police?

Is any kind of criminal history curtains to an application with Q?
What is a "Qantas ASIC" and what documentation do they require???
otherwise it looks like I'll be stuck in GA...

"If successful in progressing to Stage 4, the candidate will be required to submit documentation for the Qantas ASIC ... "

:confused:

[Ozzie Mozzie]

I'd imagine a Qantas ASIC is a normal ASIC with Qantas printed on the front. The ASIC is a government programme, surely Qantas can't just make up their own requirement for it.

Convictions become spent after a period of time, 10 years I think, after which time the cannot be seen on a criminal history check.

These guys know a bit more about it. Australian Forums (http://www.aussielegal.com.au/forum/default.htm)

[eternity]

Continuing on the correct information that Ozzie Mozzie said,


Some convictions (serious ones such as murder, rape etc) will never be regarded as a "spent" conviction.

The time limit on spent convictions varies depending on what the offence was and amount of time in jail (if any jail time). The information is readily available as people need to know what they have to disclose to prospective employers. Look at the ASIC website, not sure what gov't dept. and all the info you need will be there.

In regards to the DUI, probably no major problem. Im not sure about these days, but 10years ago a drink driving conviction was in fact a conviction on your traffic record, not your criminal record. From memory, I think most states wipe people traffic records after 5 years or so. The chances are that the drink driving record probably doesnt exist, except for court records....I dont think they are ever wiped.

But make sure you check all this info out for yourself....dont trust me!!!!


Eternity.

[harrowing]

Hopefully that will be all water under the bridge by then. Good luck.
As one of our pilots (Arch van D) used to say: "Let's go and commit aviation."
Cheers

[Geeham]

Would anyone currently with QLink care to guestimate how long it might take a new FO with over 2000 hrs, needing only the 100hrs night for ATPL to get a command upgrade? (assuming good performance)

Thanks in advance.

[harrowing]

The company minimum is twelve months and 700 hours on type, so it is possible to get a command within 18 months. Some have done it in this time. It depends on vacancies, obviously, and if those above you in the seniority list have the minimum requirements themselves. Most F/Os realize there is a lot to learn when changing seats and are quite glad of a little longer in the RH side. Good luck with your application.

[Geeham]

Thanks Harrowing.

Also if anyone who has recently done the traineeship could answer the following question it would be appreciated. I already emailed Qlink but they sent me back a dumb response that didn't answer the question...

From the website:
"The cost of training is $18,000 ex GST. QantasLink will pay $16,000 toward the upfront costs of the Trainee Program. Trainee Program participants will make an upfront contribution of $2,000"

Who pays the $1800 of GST upfront?

Do they mean Qlink pays $17600 and the Trainee pays $2200 upfront or does Qlink pay $16000 and the Trainee pays $3600?:confused:

[BoundaryLayer]

Good question Geeham - my guess would be that the respective stated figures will have GST added to them - but the other method would probably be in their best interests so who knows. So you'll probably be up for $2200 if you get the nod (and you accept :8). Of course I could be completely wrong :}

[layingback]

Hey guys has anybody done the interview lately if so I have a few questions to sak.
Thanks.:ok:

[PaulDamian]

Some courses are GST free, so I wouldn't be surprised if it is GST free.

Depending on in your income, you may be better off to pay the whole amount up front and then claim it as a tax deduction.

[VH-FTS]

That wouldn't work unless you were already employed at QLink and did the traineeship to upskill.

[Geeham]

The current deal is the Trainee pays some upfront ($2000-$3800?) and QLink pays some up front and everything that Qlink paid is taken from Trainee's net salary in years 2,3 and 4 of employment. So the Trainee pays the lot ,just not all at once.

[m.r.a.z.23]

Yep it's $2200 paid by the trainee and $17600 by QLink, and actually it's bonded for 4 years (concurrently with the endorsement bond) so provided you stay there for that long then nothing needs to be repaid of the QLink contribution.

[Geeham]

It's not bonded. The website says they take it out of your already miserly salary in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th year of employment. Only the type rating is bonded so if you stay for 3 years you don't pay anything for that.

Makes me wonder if your comment about the $2200 upfront was also wrong..?

Are you one of the trainees?

[m.r.a.z.23]

"What does the Trainee Program Cost? The QantasLink Trainee Program will cost $18000 ex GST.


Who pays for the cost of the Trainee Program?

QantasLink will pay $16,000 toward the upfront costs of the Trainee Program. Trainee Program participants will make an upfront contribution of $2,000 (directly to the training provider) and will need to pay for their own meals and transport during the Trainee Program."
(QantasLink Recruitment: Attention (http://qantaslink.bfound.net/det-contact.aspx?jobid=95231&CoId=189&rq=3))


Only certain approved courses can be completed GST free...pretty sure this one wouldn't be approved as one. Therefore $18,000 incl GST (10%) is $19,800 or, with the breakdowns listed above, $17,600 + $2,200 (I assume QLink aren't going to cover the GST for the trainee's contribution...).

[rocket66]

Word on the street is no, it's not a good idea. During the sim ride they know you haven't flown anything similar if your applying for a traineeship. Might be a different story if you DE. I'm told they look for progression in learning. That is you start out a bit ordinary and by the end you may be able to fly the thing ok.

If you do time in a sim first your not likely to show progression in learning. Your graph will be a flat line instead of a nice climbing one. Folks on the inside may be able to provide some more info.


Rocket

[Geeham]

Hey mraz23,
You forgot to post this bit from the website "QantasLink will pay $16,000 toward the upfront costs of the Trainee Program...... If you are subsequently employed by QantasLink you will be required repay the costs of the Trainee Program over a three year period through deductions from your salary."

But this still doesn't answer the question of whether the trainee only pays $2200 upfront or whether they're being sneaky with their wording so that you don't realise you have to cough up $3800 until its more or less too late..

Anyone recently been through the process???

[zendo]

what do q400 fo's get paid at the moment anyway?

[Power]

I know of someone who got in with around 600

[Calldepartures]

Does anybody know if the traineeship is still running? Are they planning on running any traineeship or DE courses in 2012? I heard that recruiting may be slowing or even being stopped after Jan 2012?

[rmcdonal]

I heard that recruiting may be slowing or even being stopped after Jan 2012?
I doubt it will be stopping any time soon, there was a large influx just recently due to the starting of WA ops, however all those spots should be filled by now. As pilots move on (mostly to Virgin or Cathay) the need to replace them well keep recruitment ticking along. I doubt they would take a large number of trainees in the near future, however they do seem to trickle feed through the system, particularly as they can pull guys out of GA with 2000hrs and some with turbine time.

[KRUSTY 34]

Once Upon a Time, in an industry far far away, candidates for airline positions were only required to contribute their time and talent. That time and talent were usually very hard won, so it was only reasonable to expect a process based on professionalism.

Today, airline interviews (especially with the Rat or their subs') have resulted in some Beancounter's beachside Condo', for which every candidate has had a hand in funding!

Don't be surprised if the number of interviewees greatly out numbered the positions available. That my friend is probably why you have been left confused. That my friend is exactly what they think of you. :suspect:

[OhForSure]

I can assure you the pass rate is not high. On a recent occasion 12 out of 12 hopefuls failed. On other occasions most of those screened were successful. Apparently, over the last few months the overall pass rate has been a bit under 50%. As to whether or not it's the company or the applicants responsible, I can't answer that one. Good luck everyone.

[Fonz121]

Yeah the success rate has been very low, I'm assuming because they just don't need that many guys so the competition is higher.

They must have interviewed close to 200 this year (roughly 4 per week) and as far as I'm aware there were only 3-4 ground courses. So roughly 30 people, which is about a 15% take up rate. Obviously no shortage of candidates.

[KRUSTY 34]

My point exactly Fonz'. 200 interviews, testings, appearance fees (paid to the company not the applicants), for 30 positions!?

Nice little earner.:=

[Di_Vosh]

Before this turns into a conspiracy theory I can guarantee people out there that Qlink cannot get enough people in through the door atm.

I'm assuming because they just don't need that many guys so the competition is higher.

This is completely untrue!

AFAIK, the only base in the network where there are excess crew is Cairns where we have too many Q300 FO's. EVERY other base has shortfalls in either Captains or FO's either on the Q300 or Q400. Some bases have multiple crew shortfalls.

We are still losing either Captains or high-time FO's to other carriers. We are expanding and have additional aircraft arriving in 2012 which will need to be crewed.

Some of you guys are so quick to look for "Applicant gouging" that you'll take any bait and run with it.

This:

Apparently, over the last few months the overall pass rate has been a bit under 50%

And this:

They must have interviewed close to 200 this year (roughly 4 per week) and as far as I'm aware there were only 3-4 ground courses. So roughly 30 people, which is about a 15% take up rate.

Gets turned into this:

200 interviews, testings, appearance fees (paid to the company not the applicants), for 30 positions!?

So who do we believe? OFS who says just under 50%, or Fonz who says 15%? We'll go with the Fonz as it's leading to the conspiracy that Qlink has nothing else better to do than find ways of charging potential applicants some money.

Putting a candidate through a complete interview process takes a lot of time and money. Back in the day, airlines like Qlink and Rex probably only ran one or maybe two ground schools (around 6-8 people in each) per year. That's a far cry from today when (according to the rumours here :hmm:) Qlink have run 200 interviews in the past 12 months. If the success rate is so low it stands to reason that the company will want to minimise the cost of putting an applicant through the entire process. The simplest way to do that is to charge the applicant. I'm not saying I agree with this, but I can see their point of view.

For Pilotchute I'm sorry you didn't get in and it cost you money to find that out. It's been my experience that applicants who didn't make it failed for a reason. In late 2007 I went for a Rex interview and thought I'd nailed it. Four days later I got a reject email (cost me almost $1000.00). In 2008 I went for a Qlink interview and thought I'd messed it up and here I am.

Excuse my ingnorance but wouldn't the airline only get you in if they thought you had a little better than a slim chance of making it?

From a recruiters point of view, it can be hard to make that kind of assessment when the airline only has your application to work with. Even your aptitude tests don't guarantee that you'll do well in your sim assessment or even do well in your interview.

I'm not in Qlink recruiting but I know a couple of people who've conducted the interviews and their stories to me confirm what I've experienced in the past when I was interviewing I.T. candidates.

People f*ck up interviews.

IME, the people who do the worst at interviews are the ones who are cocky, cannot find any faults in themselves, have problems with authority, and don't prepare for the interview process.

By prepare I include this guy:

http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-aviation-questions/309237-merged-qantaslink-traineeship-cadetship-general-employment-60.html#post6506433

People who (allegedly) got through everything but got rejected after their referees were contacted. :ouch:

DIVOSH!

[Going Nowhere]

Spoke with someone who was doing the sim evaluations a few weeks ago. They said they were putting 4 hopefuls into the sim each week (mainly on Wednesdays) and the average success rate year to date was 25-50%.

This was only for the Traineeship mind you.

[Chadzat]

Pilotchute- take it as a positive that you didnt get in mate. Im sure a job with a better operator is just around the corner! I didnt get in with Rex in 2008 and would not be where i am today if the result had of been the opposite!

[Fonz121]

So who do we believe? OFS who says just under 50%, or Fonz who says 15%? We'll go with the Fonz as it's leading to the conspiracy that Qlink has nothing else better to do than find ways of charging potential applicants some money.

Di Vosh

I think you've misunderstood my post for a Qlink bashing. Which it is not. I in no way whatsoever implied that recruiting is some kind of money making scheme. I happen to disagree with that as I know it's not a cheap exercise and costs more than the 190 odd dollars the candidates pay.

I was simply passing on my thoughts as to why so many people were missing out.

I believe I am correct when I say that there have been interviews pretty much every week this year, and with 3-4 guys per week that gets the number somewhere between 150-200.

[Calldepartures]

Still a few getting through.. I know someone that just got a letter to say congrats, you are on active hold. (traineeship). Aparently no start date as courses are yet to be announced for next year.

[OhForSure]

Di Vosh is on the mark, per usual. QLink are definitely short in many areas. "Shortage of suitable applicants" is the reason I've heard... SYD F/O's WANTED!:ugh:

[rmcdonal]

On the other hand I thought afterwards that being bonded for 5 years could have held me back for something better down the track.
Could be where you lost it. It costs a lot of money to train a pilot, and they want a return on their investment. Yes you are bonded and they will get some of the cash back if you leave early, but they wont get back the extra time now needed to replace you, nor will they get to use the experience that you gain while flying for them.

[wotthe]

As a past member of said company's interview panel I can attest to the fact that you can sum up in the first ten minutes whether an applicant will get the nod or not and even tho the sim sessions were a handful for some, these people went on to gain commands and are some of the best in the company.

Of all the people that 'got the nod' probably less than 10% turned out to be 'problem children', of which some are still with the company today.

The current interview process is far more complicated and involved than it once was, and not all the panel members are necessarily pilots or even flight operations people. That's not to say that they're not good at what they do but certain individuals have been known to display a very high expectation.

My two bobs worth

[Di_Vosh]

Fonz

My ire wasn't directed at your post; rather than at Krusty (who's posts I normally enjoy reading) who used your quote instead of OFS to further his conspiracy theory that

Today, airline interviews (especially with the Rat or their subs') have resulted in some Beancounter's beachside Condo

Also to counter the other misconception that Qlink don't need any more pilots.

DIVOSH!

[Di_Vosh]

G'day again Pilotchute

I have worked in HR and if I sent 200 applicants to interview at a company and only 30 were found suitable I would have lost that account before I could blink!

Agree 100%!

But consider what kind of filtering your employment agency would have done before sending off your applicants? Have you ever in your previous job filtered 30 out of 200 (say) so that you could send that 30 off to a potential employer?

Qlink isn't getting their applicants from an employment agency. They're getting their applications directly from individuals who have the required mimimum hours and qualifications applicable at the time.

Back in the day (love that saying :)) the average person getting into the likes of Qlink or Rex had over 4000 hours often including turbine time. These people had already had several years in GA, many GA employers, and had been through several interviews and jobs before applying to the larger regionals.

I would be guessing that that type of applicant is now rare at Qlink and Rex. A lot of the newer applicants haven't been through a professional interview process before, and this can show up in an interview. Many of them don't have extensive GA time and/or "living away from mum and dad" experience. They often lack maturity and that lack of maturity shows in the interviews.

I'm saying this because for some of our newer pilots (the ones getting through) Qlink is their first employer! For some others it is their second (their first being the flying school where they learned to fly).

My guess is that this is the main reason why there is a high failure rate during the Qlink application process.


My 2c

DIVOSH!

[JRL89]

Hey guys,

had a good read of the thread, and I got an email recently offering an invitation for "stage three" of the recruitment process around Feb next year. So it will interesting to see what it's all about. And hopefully when the time comes, offer some insight for others in a similar position.

[Capt Mo]

I have heard of a few people with interviews early in the new year. Out of curiosity, are there many out there who have been successful and currently on hold? anyone received word of a start for 2012?

[tarmac12]

I was told if succesfull I would be on the first course in 2012 and I interviewed a couple of months ago. That would suggest that it's a wait of at least 3 months if you get the nod. (which I did not)

If you believe whats on here your odds are about one in fifteen of getting in so not good really. You gotta have th X factor apparently! Nobody seems to know what the X factor is which makes it harder.

[JRL89]

Hey mate, thanks for the heads up, sounds like it's going to be a pretty selective process, and like you said. A bit hard to know what they are looking for from a candidate before heading into the deep end for the interview process. If you don't mind me asking, what was your flying experience when you went for the interview process a few months back? I imagine the interview would cover a fairly broad range of topics from operational IFR stuff to personal questions etc..

[rmcdonal]

With 3 X Q400 due to be delivered in 2012 (http://www.qantas.com.au/infodetail/about/investors/qantas-strategy-day-presentation-2011.pdf, Pg 117)
They will need to be recruiting throughout next year.

[noclue]

QantasLink Recruitment: Attention (http://qantaslink.bfound.net/det-entry.aspx?jobid=102075&CoId=189&rq=1)

discuss :E

[Orion Delta]

Experience

5000 hours total time;
1000 hours Command of Transport Category aircraft (>13,000kg) (excluding ICUS); and,
Current Dash 8 endorsement.


Sounds reasonable IMO.

[Going Nowhere]

Assume you're looking at the DEC positions which at this stage is only for Perth so it'll be covered under the Eastern EBA.

http://www.fwa.gov.au/documents/agreements/fwa/AE886985.pdf

Page 28 of the PDF has the wages.

Year 1 Q400 CAPT
$98000
$101000 as of July 1 2012.

Being PER base expect no overnights to top the money up, apart from extension allowances or RDO Call Ins.

[rmcdonal]

Doubt it, unless VA starting recruiting heavily again. Plenty of FOs about to tick over the command requirements for East Coast bases both North and South of the boarder.

[Going Nowhere]

Best bet would be hope for a DEC into Perth and join the queue for a slot on the East Coast.

[tarmac12]

Heard a good rumour that some of the Qlink crew are getting annoyed with the recruitment sim rides going over time and pushing back everyone's slots for the PC's.

One apparently said that he wouldn't mind so much if the company actually hired a few of the hopefulls every once in a while!

[wishiwasupthere]

Not sure if all of the FO recruitment is going at trainees or direct entry FOs, but are direct entry FO's getting into QLink with close to the minimums at the moment (700TT, 250ME)?

[atlas12]

Can't be sure, but I think that most of the FO's joining atm have at least ATPL's :confused:

[PaulDamian]

how long is the wait for transfer or entry to command in Melb?

[rmcdonal]

how long is the wait for transfer or entry to command in Melb? My estimate would put that at 5-8 years. Even an FO spot in Mel can take 1-2 years.

[mtrench]

my entire GS at link had all ATPL's, except a few trainees who were still reasonably experienced with a bit of GA time around 1000hr mark.

[DeafStar]

Qantaslink looked headed for a crewing crisis. Currently an increasing shortage of Captains. DEC's advertised and unfulfilled command slots in alot of bases.

[atlas12]

Deafstar, heaps of upgradable FOs just sitting around but are being blocked. Some are not allowed to upgrade, others are being turned away for minor discrepencies in their logbook, not to mention the guys being bypassed for 1 single hour :yuk:

But yes they are short as hell on crew!!

[belly tank]

Hi all,

As has been mentioned in the thread regarding the aptitude testing for stage 2 of the traineeship and some mentioning that PATS is the way to go to get an idea of what's in the test.

What do you guys think or recommend would be the best way to go about it. Is PATS course going to get you prepared for the real test?

Cheers and thanks in advance
BT

[AerodyManic]

From my experience, PATS really is not necessary for the Qlink aptitude! If you are called for stage 2 then you will be emailed info regarding the online aptitude test you have to do. On there are practice questions you can try at any time before doing the real thing. It's basically Maths and English reasoning followed by a phsyc questionnaire. Don't be tempted into cheating with someone next to you tho, as recent applicants have been asked to do another similar test on the day of the interview. Good luck ✈

[belly tank]

Thanks Aero,
I got through to round 2 and have the email also my test isn't due till end of month. I applied 2 weeks ago and I got an invite within a week.

I was just curious as to what folks thought. I did receive a couple of PM's from some guys on here and thanks to you again also.

Anyway I'll soon find out :ok:

[VHFRT]

I've gone through the process recently. I think I did ok at the interview and sim.

If my references have been called (that's stage 4?) does that mean I was sucessful through Stage 3 (interview/sim) or do they call them anyway?

What is the expected time between them calling referees and giving me an answer?

Any ideas on the ground course dates for this year?

[mcgrath50]

If they are calling your references it is generally a good sign. They wouldn't waste their time if they know they don't want you. But calling references can mean anything from, they have a feeling about you and want a reference to back up that feeling before cutting you, all the way up to they love you and references are just a formality.

[belly tank]

I did the 4 tests last week. 2 psychometric on the Thursday ( personality & motivational questionnaires ) appx 200 questions. Then on Friday I completed the verbal reasoning 30 questions in 19 mins, and numerical reasoning 19 questions in 25 mins.

I completed the verbal in time but I only got to question 16 in numerical.
I received an email within 24 hrs with n invitation for the sim flight and interview in April! So see how it goes!

I used Assesment day practice exams for the aptitude and studied them for 2 weeks prior to completing the actual QLink tests.

Thnkyou for those guys that go back to me for guidance on the tests, I really appreciate it :ok:

Regards
BT

[PaulDamian]

How difficult is the initial training and endorsement on the Dash 8?
Do many people have difficulty?

Once checked to line, do many pilots have difficulty with cyclic checks?
I've been reading the EBA and there are detailed processes for failing a check.

[rmcdonal]

Once you are in the company they go out of their way to help you pass the endorsement and training. The system in the EBA is followed, however you can expect additional training if you need it. Obviously at a point they have to cut their losses and let you go, however it is rare as it is expensive for the company. The initial training system is designed to pass you, there is no money in failing you.

Once checked to line, do many pilots have difficulty with cyclic checks?
A cyclic is inversely as difficult as the preparation you put into it. If you study and think about what's going to happen BEFORE you go in then you are not likely to have an issue, if you don't study then expect a difficult ride.

[wotthe]

Unfortunately they're getting low on Queensland sim checkies who are a little more 'user friendly'.

[PaulDamian]

I think it has been done to death previously in this long thread, but it appears that the pilots being accepted into the traineeship (add the $18K for a 6 week course) seem to have, (on average), hours that exceed the direct entry FO requirements. Feedback seems to suggest that successful trainees usually have over 1000 hours. Direct entry FOs, although only required to have min 700 hours, naturally have higher hours, perhaps 1200-3000.

I presume this is a simply labour ecomonics - a supply and demand scenario.

It is apparent that, once accepted, trainees might continue to accrue hours until a requirement arises and a course is available. The holding pool for trainees, after completion of the 6 week course, appears to be still be competitive when waiting for a vacancy opportunity. So it appears that one could do the course and still be waiting with others with more hours jump ahead.

Not complaining, as I'm sure QL just want the best available recruits, but it is hard to balance one's expectations when contemplating spending $$$.

Are there any examples of trainees getting to line training with less than 700 hours?

[rmcdonal]

Are there any examples of trainees getting to line training with less than 700 hours?
Yes, in 2008.

[VHFRT]

Any ideas how long the expected wait is at the moment for Direct Entry guys in the "active hold" pool?

[atlas12]

Can't be long surely, we need more FO's badly!!
That and there seems to be a slow build up to a mass exodus sometime in the near future :E

Initial training is not hard, but it certainly is harder than when I started here... they are more anal about stuff now. Cyclics really come down to who the checkie is, and if you are worried about that I strongly suggest you park yourself on the classic fleet :ok:

[rocket66]

Ive heard along the grapevine a few people are leaving for greener pastures with Alliance?

Been applying since 2008, pick me pick me!!!

rocket