Merged: Qantaslink Traineeship/Cadetship/General Employment [Archive] - Page 3

Bort Simpson

14th Jul 2008, 23:51

Apparently either the course about to start or the one after it will only have 8 people in it.

On completion of the traineeship, a few direct entrys will probably join the sucessful candidates in sydney as well . There have been 14 per traineeship course thus far. So half the amount is almost right. They really don't want odd numbers due to pairings in the synthetic trainer.

Not much point pushing heaps of people through when there are limited simulator slots and then limited training captains available to take on the new FOs. I've also heard that, due to VB cutting back on intakes, less Qlink pilots will be leaving and therefore there is less demand for new recruits. Can anyone shed some light on this?

Bort.

Altimeters

15th Jul 2008, 00:30

Any DE applicants been pushed back for this month? I haven't heard anything and my interview is next week.

"Littlebird"

15th Jul 2008, 01:25

This whole QL Traineeship I'm on, now I'm off, has become a bore!
I know of 3 FO's who have recently completed sim and interviews with VB and awaiting the green light and will be departing soon. This program was only announced 6 months ago and has already been halved, slowed down, whatever. What significant issue not already present in January has changed in this timeframe? Would you say bad management, poor situation awareness, all of the above? At the end of the day, people will get sick of being kept in the dark, and waiting in a holding pattern. Some will move on, others will come onboard only to leave soon after. Do you see a trend?
QL - get your act together, make a decision, stick to it, pay your people a little more (at least more than Surveillance Australia), and this whole pathetic cycle will be be arrested, and people might even decide to make a career as a QL Pilot.
LB:ugh:

1000togo

15th Jul 2008, 01:30

Apparently either the course about to start or the one after it will only have 8 people in it.

My information is that the 28th July course has been reduced to 8 people, with those cut from that course being moved to the 25th August course. The August course will also be run at half capacity. No information on whether any more courses will be run after August :sad:

Does anyone know what this means for those with conditional offers?

It means another visit to the Centrelink office :ugh:

lesgo

15th Jul 2008, 02:31

Capt Mo,

How was stage 3? I'm booked in for DE stage 3 next month (not cancelled yet).

Any hints to pass on?

Also, can anyone direct me to where i can download a Q400 add on for the flight sim x? all I can find is paint scheme addons.... If there are none out there what's a good substitue for the heavy q400 to practise on?

lesgo

KRUSTY 34

15th Jul 2008, 02:32

"Littlebird".

Once again someone with "Situational Awareness" stating what should be the bl@@dy obvious. If the clowns that come up with these bright ideas were required to display the same level of rationale that we are expected to display daily, they wouldn't even make it past the carpark!

There is, and always has been only one answer to this situation. Unfortunately, it's more about short term penny pinching rather than long term stability.

So the architechs of these schemes have no hesitation in st#ffing around those people that have no real right of reply. They do this because because they can, and because of a lack of "Situational Awareness" in a rapidly changing environment. The Cadets (REX) and the Trainees (QFLink) are paying the price for management incompetance.

flying_drumman

15th Jul 2008, 02:38

Whilst waiting at Melbourne last night for my nicely delayed flight, I happened to talk to some 763 pilots about getting into QF.

They said the QL way would probably be the best, and to look out for the seminars.

After some research I cant find any info about any seminars, so would anyone on here be able to direct/inform me of any.

Thanks!

1000togo

15th Jul 2008, 02:47

Flying Drumman - You're a month too late, it's all over.

flying_drumman

15th Jul 2008, 03:27

Oh wow..that happened quick (I think):ugh:

OK plan B: build up enough hours for D/E into mainline QF!

j3pipercub

15th Jul 2008, 19:32

Little Bird, what are you, maverick or aviation consultant????

Go HOME...

KRUSTY 34

15th Jul 2008, 22:46

Probably someone you should listen to j3pipercub!

j3pipercub

16th Jul 2008, 06:06

I was not intending to give the impression that I am unaware of the Q link situmacrisis, I have been reading this thread and various other forms of information and mis information in addition to having several former coleagues and friends currently in QLink.

j3

UFLA

17th Jul 2008, 22:40

Back to the top again, fellas!

Did the testing of the 17th go ahead?

Does anyone want to share the experience?

Here is a brief version of my experience recently -

I was there with 2 other guys –

One was from Burketown in North Queensland and was flying a Chieftain and a Baron (and probably some singles).

The other was from Adelaide.

Both had about 1,300 TT and ?300 twin. A CIR with maybe one renewal. That’s about all I know about them. You don’t have much time to chat as you all have the 3 components of the day at different times and just pass in the corridor.

There were some very low hour trainees doing sim training there.

INTERVIEW

I was happy with my interview and the questions were positive.

2 guys. One is HR. The other is a pilot. The first half hour is personal with the HR guy asking most of the questions.

“Tell us about what you have done since school”. “Give us 3 positive attributes that you have”. “Tell us about a time you had an argument with a colleague. How was it resolved?” “What did you do to prepare for this interview?” “Tell us about a time you stuffed up?”

The answers aren’t important. Take your time answering them and ask them to clarify anything that may be nebulous, it gives you more time to think too. Put yourself across positively without crossing the line to delusions of grandeur.:= They just want to see what you are like and if they would like to spend a day in a cockpit with you. Relax and smile.

You then get about 10 minutes to grab a coffee, decrease your tachycardia and wipe the sweat from your neck. The second half hour is technical. Straight off a sheet. He doesn’t even look at you.

“Read this TAF. Do you need an alternate? Brief this approach. What is the most easterly port that Eastern fly to? What engines are on the Dashes? How do you know if you have the required vis. at the min. on an ILS? When can you make a visual approach? When can descend below the MDA?”:confused:

About 2 pages of that sort of thing. He just ticks them if you get them right so don’t waffle on like the personal interview session. Most have 3 word answers. It took me a while to work that out, I am not very smart…

I was told that the rate of pilots leaving had decreased and (I think) only 1 had resigned in the last 2 months.

They didn’t take my Police Record Check, HSC, copies of references or passport, or anything else from what I can gather. I don’t know if this was an oversight of they just wanted to see them.

HOT TIP -Buy a $2 presentation folder, it all looks so much better in that rather than just throwing a stack of paper at them.

SIM

The Q400 was very heavy in aileron and elevator control. I found a LOT of lag esp. with aileron and was over controlling in roll ++. You do the 2 approaches. A steep turn thru 360 degrees in a direction of your choice, an easy NDB intercept and track to the aid. Know the power settings and attitudes (as if I could hold them :{) Trimming of aileron and rudder is required all the time. They allege that they don’t expect you to fly well, they just want to see an improvement during the flight. Plenty of room for me then!:sad:

MEDICAL

At least as thorough as any Class One you have done. Audiometry, 12 lead ECG, spirometry, urine, full neuro exam etc. Not much you can do to prepare for it. Remember to take your blood results and eye test.

The whole thing goes from 10 till 4 so don’t make any other plans for the day. It takes a while for your head to stop spinning.

I hope that helps some of you. Good luck to all.:)

das Uber Soldat

18th Jul 2008, 01:28

to all those who are still waiting for an answer re the jun 19th cutoff, this probably isnt very good news for us.

Qantas axes 1500 jobs - Travel - smh.com.au (http://www.smh.com.au/news/travel/qantas-axes-1500-jobs/2008/07/18/1216163109093.html)

:}

Capt Mo

21st Jul 2008, 07:41

Gday,

Has anyone who completed the 6th July Psychometric testing, or who has had an interview since heard any outcomes whether positive or negative? I fall into both groups and havent heard anything, nor do I know of anyone who has.

Just curious as it has all gone quiet.:uhoh:

Mo :ok:

1000togo

21st Jul 2008, 08:02

No Capt Mo......all very quiet :sad:

newagebird

21st Jul 2008, 12:29

i was given the reject letter and was told i require more industry experience which makes sense considering they cant be so choosy anymore with their candidates as the course numbers have been cut to 4 and they have so many conditional entries out there. shattered but life goes on i guess.

newagebird

Aussie_Aviator

23rd Jul 2008, 14:34

Well, at least some beneficial aspects will become apparent out of all of this: GA will now swell with pilots; Instructors will once again fill the flying school/club class rooms; Kids will still spend obscenely gross amounts of cash in the hope of gaining a left seat in a clapped out Chieftain or C-310; students will be left to rot at metropolitan airports because they don't want to move away from mummy & daddy and chase jobs in rural areas, and those fortunate enough to be wearing a charcoal uniform with gold braid on their sleeves will forever wonder when the axe will fall on them. There will always be those who don't appreciate what they have and believe the grass is always greener on the other side.
Ah ... aviation.

Sons' and Daughters' of the well connected will always gazump the guy who took the hard road to obtaining that dream job with QANTAS. It's all about nepitism.

Flying will become firmly the domain of the rich and well connected.

Back to the 1950's again.

Raynman

26th Jul 2008, 16:49

Hi all.

Has anyone received a letter of employment from Qantaslink but with no starting date like me? I just get told to wait, don't know for what or how long...:confused:

If anyone’s got news on how things are going with new F/O’s waiting for a start date, please give me a shout!

Thanx :ok:

1000togo

27th Jul 2008, 00:33

Are you direct entry Raynman or on the traineeship?

Raynman

27th Jul 2008, 05:54

Hi togo

I'm on direct entry, don't have Dash rating though, need to do sim...

1000togo

27th Jul 2008, 06:53

Things are progressing very slowly for both traineeship and DE candidates due to, among other factors, a complete lack of training captains. I guess it's just a case of sitting tight :ugh:. Couldn't hurt to keep sending out those CVs though!

eternity

27th Jul 2008, 15:20

Alot of people have put their two cents worth into if/why QL is slowing their traineeship, but does anybody have any actual facts?
This is not meant as a challenge but as a geniune request.

I'm currently in Sydney finishing off ATPL's with a conditional offer expiring 21 Aug, and now shi*$ing my pants slightly over wether or not they might delay me or cancel my conditional offer.

If some people out there have FIRST HAND info regarding what is happening with the future courses and why please let me know.
I expect that there is also a few others reading this who are in the same position as me and would also appreciate a heads up.

Cheers

KRUSTY 34

27th Jul 2008, 21:37

Whatever the reason for the slowdown in this on again off again farce, one thing remains constant. The eternal capacity for airlines (especially QF) to keep people in the dark. Anyone remember the shameful way in which the QF hold file kept sucessfull applicants waiting (sometimes for years) only to say thanks but no thanks because some well connected son or daughter came along with more points!

Welcome to the wonderful world of QF HR.

UnderneathTheRadar

28th Jul 2008, 01:35

Email message from QL HR is that they will updating those with conditional acceptances shortly (next week or so).

Based on other information in the same email it would appear that the program is still going, albeit slower, and that conditional offers (my offer is pretty much identical to yours by the sound of it) are still valid (they are still asking me for copies of documentation etc).

What they haven't done is screen any new applicants (or even give answers to some they have screened recently). This would seem to imply that those 'in the system' are still in the system but I guess they could still rescreen those on file to see who they really want.

Sorry, not a definitive answer but best I can offer,

UTR.

1000togo

29th Jul 2008, 07:33

I have heard that several of the people who had been bumped from the July course to the August course have now been told they are on indefinite hold. Has anyone heard anything further? :uhoh:

grumpy greyhound

30th Jul 2008, 10:46

The trainee program has been wound back,essentially course intake numbers have been more than halved. Also intake criteria increased some what. As I seeit management overcooked it a bit with incoming and the exodus has slowed for now . Dont lose hope,just go bush for a while or become a chemist and invent a viable kero alternative. All the best with your flying career.GG.

UnderneathTheRadar

31st Jul 2008, 03:33

Lt Dan,

Not necessarily. I know of candiates given acceptances in the last few days who have neither ATPL nor CIR. They have to get them prior to starting though - but have 12 months to do so.

UTR.

turbantime

31st Jul 2008, 13:01

Otherwise QFL have no respect or plain good manners anymore and should be taken to the cleaners.

This statement best sums up Qlink management....in fact you can leave out the "anymore" bit.....they never had or ever will have respect for flight crew. This is precisely the reason why oh so many pilots have left qlink recently and this includes very experienced captains that would have been happy to stay if they were treated a little bit better.

Guys, for your own career's sake, don't sit around waiting on the hold file or hoping that you will eventually get a start because your course date keeps getting pushed back. These muppets can and simply will have you on the merry go around and then eventually spit you out given the chance.

Keep building the experience...don't slow down waiting for qlink...and when they call, take the gig...if they don't...aim for something higher. :ok:

Spinner69

4th Aug 2008, 20:35

Ive heard rumors that the QantasLink cadetships have been cancelled.... Any truth to this rumor?

badboiblu

4th Aug 2008, 21:54

Not yet, but it should be.
Put the money into retaining staff rather then training new ones.

SemperFly

5th Aug 2008, 01:51

http://www.pprune.org/forums/d-g-general-aviation-questions/309237-renamed-qantaslink-traineeship-cadetship-general-employment.html

WannaBeBiggles

5th Aug 2008, 01:56

Cannot comment on whether it has been or is being cancelled.

I know a few people that got accepted in to it and many have defered start dates for the course as class sizes have been reduced.

BoundaryLayer

5th Aug 2008, 05:49

Not sure when it happened and may have been raised here already, but I just happened to have a look at the minimum requirements for the traineeship on their web site. The MECIR is now required as are passes in the ATPL subjects. Also a slight change to NZ applicants' requirements I think.

I hope they haven't shelved the program completely as I had an interview postponed recently. Hopefully there will be an update from them at some point in the not too distant future. :hmm:

KRUSTY 34

5th Aug 2008, 06:48

Take a deep breath all you Generation Y'ers out there. Might be time to look at that career in IT after all.

Isn't it ironic that the latest action, or inaction if you like, of airline management has probably hilighted one of the reasons that young people have stopped learning to fly in this country. Lets offer a fast track to a position that traditionally has taken years of blood sweat and tears to qualify for. Oops! hear comes a slowdown! (temporary, but lets not let that worry us). Now let us show our true colours and Duck, weave and generally stuff around the candidates, all because we can. After all they are not employees yet, and as such we are not bound by any sort of industrial obligation. What about moral obligation I hear you say? Yeah right, next question.

The only reason that QFLink had the response to the traineeship program (if you can call it that) is because unlike in the past, people are not prepared to risk all for a career in aviation. The traineeship offered a "shortcut" that in turn makes the meagre returns by way of Wages and Conditions justifyable in the minds of a greater number of wannabes.

Keep up the good work QFLink management. Once the dust settles and you have driven another nail in the coffin of regional aviation, you'll be lucky if you can find anyone willing to put up with the half arsed, reactive behaviour that you are so famous for!

As for all you young hopefulls out there, take note. If it looks too good to be true, it probably is!

SemperFly

5th Aug 2008, 07:42

Oh Krusty get your hand off it. Near as I can tell you work for Rex not QLink, so what would you know about the trainee program anyway.

I do work for QLink so what I can tell you is only what I have heard.
No, the trainee program is not stopping but it is being slowed down considerably.

This is due to the fact that because of the oil price 'crisis', hiring at the majors has slowed down. In addition, this means people are a bit more wary to jump off the top of one seniority list to go to the bottom of another one. These two things combined have meant the projected attrition rates, from say six months ago, are no longer valid as not as many people are leaving given the current climate. Ipso facto fewer people out the door means fewer people are needed coming in the door. For now anyway. What should they do just keep hiring new FOs forever, even though they aren't needed?

The trainee program has trained well over 50 new FOs for QL in the last few months. That is 50 folks that got a hell of an opportunity they wouldn't have gotten a few years back. And by all accounts the training captains working with newbies are very happy with the standard being turned out by the program. So there is no plan to shut it down at all.

But like so many things in life it is all about timing. So Krusty if you can look into your crystal ball and give us all a specific date when hiring will pick up again across the industry I am sure everyone is all ears.

Oh and to you all you generation x, y, z, l, m, n, o p-ers and baby boomers out there, if you think the world owes you a job just because you applied for one I am afraid to say that just isn't how the world works. Not in any industry.

SF

And before you all go slagging me off. No I am not QL management, I am but a humble line pilot with some common sense and a dose of reality.

bushy

5th Aug 2008, 08:31

And there is a "pilot shortage"??

desmotronic

5th Aug 2008, 08:59

No pilot shortage but how many 457 visas at Qantaslink.:hmm:

SemperFly

5th Aug 2008, 09:05

At the moment. Zero

desmotronic

5th Aug 2008, 09:25

Who are all the foreign accents then? Citizens?

SemperFly

5th Aug 2008, 09:45

All the ones I know who talk funny are citizens, and have been here for over 10 years (in some cases 20).

Sorry to disappoint, you'll have to find something else to be angry about.

(not saying they haven't been trying, but no takers yet)

KRUSTY 34

5th Aug 2008, 09:52

SF.

That's OK, everyone is entitled to an opinion. Do I gather then that you believe QFLink management are handling the experience drain as effectively as REX management. Because I've got news for you, when the next round of recruiting at the majors comes, many of your senior Captains, as well as those at REX will be gone quicker than Sh!t through a goose. That is unless the Bonus makers smell the coffee and put the long term interest of the industry ahead of their own?

Yeah right!

SemperFly

5th Aug 2008, 10:05

Do I think aircrew should be better paid? Yes

Do I think experienced Captains will continue to leave? Yes

But the thread is about the trainee program, which is not really designed to address either of those problems.

The trainee program was designed to address the problem of finding new meat for the sausage machine. FOs leave the airline at a much higher rate than Captains do. So the trainee program was designed to address the problem of finding suitable new FOs for the operation in absence suitable qualified direct entry FO applicants (a pool that was drying up very quickly at the time).

In that context the program has worked quite well. Ask any of the kiddies that have gone through already, especially those that have gone straight on to the 400, and I think they will say they were pretty happy to get the opportunity. So let's not paint it with a brush of doom and gloom and cynicism when in and of itself it has been providing the desired result for both parties. QL gets pretty well trained (if not experienced) FOs and the young uns' get jump start on their career.

Let's just be accurate about the purpose and result is all I am saying.

SF

eternity

5th Aug 2008, 10:09

SemperFly,

I hear what your saying and you have made some very good points.
However, I do encourage you to look at it from the perspective of many people with 'conditional offers' who have been affected by this.

For those lucky enough, myself included who received a 'conditional offer' with QLink, were told that we needed to finish our ATPL's, and we would then be put on the next course.
We were given four months to complete the ATPL's. Now I'm not sure how good the rest of you are but many people, myself included found that four months to complete all the ATPL's whilst flying full time was extremely hard.

As a result, many decided to resign from their jobs to ensure that everything was completed by the due date, as we were told that we would be put on the next course as soon as we had completed the ATPL's. We were also told that there was a course running every month).

And then due to 'fuel issues' 'training captain issues' 'not many people leaving issues' or for whatever specific reason, QLink then announced that all the courses would be frozen for the next 6-8 months.

Ok, we can deal with this. Maybe these were things that were beyond the control or foresight of QLink. For many it was an annoyance but, either way, they would have a place on the traineeship eventually.

QLink have now announced that when you complete everything, you are put in a 'hold file' that is 'competitive based'.

So basically, many people resigned from their jobs to complete a task within the specified limits by QLink for which was promised a place on the traineeship.
Now these people have no jobs, and possibly no place on the traineeship because QLink have now decided that it should be competitive based. (Which basically means that you may never get a call).

We can accept that the traineeship has been slowed down - hey, it's aviation.
But to make the file now competitive based - now that really hurts for people that have left everything for this dream job. And it's not just one or two people; there are alot of pilots out there in the same boat.

SemperFly, I suspect that you may find that this is why people are somewhat pi**ed off with QLink right now.

Your horse is very high my friend.
I suggest that you climb on down and have a look around.

Regards.:ok:

Sue Ridgepipe

5th Aug 2008, 10:22

Hey eternity, if you want to work for QLink then get used to being shafted like this. When the supply of pilots exceeds demand, the attitude of management has always been "we are going to shaft you because we can". They really don't give a rats about you or anyone else or how their decisions will affect people's lives.

And that is why so many people leave when the opportunities are available like they have been in the last 12 months or so. But now the wheel is turning back in management's favour so it's back to the old ways of shafting people again.
:sad:

SemperFly

5th Aug 2008, 10:25

Actually my horse is pretty f**kin short. Do you think it was any different when I applied? Or when anybody applied? Only a year or two ago it was 'knock on the door for 5 years and you might get a look in'.

I feel for you. I really do. I am not defending QL hiring practices. I have no more say in them than you do.

The conditional hold file has been at reality at Qantas (and still is) for as long as I remember.

I think not honoring their word shows a complete lack of integrity and I think you have every right to be pissed off.

But once again. All I am saying is:
- The trainee program has not been canceled.
- The trainee program is actually working pretty well for what it is supposed to accomplish.

That is it. Nothing more.

SF

KRUSTY 34

5th Aug 2008, 11:48

At the risk of going around in circles SF, I was in fact refering to the Traineeship with regard to the way QFLink management treat not only their existing staff, but even more reprehensively those that have little status and even less right of reply. Your assertion that the program has worked quite well, is as short sighted as management's thinking itself.

Beware of defending a program that may have offered a quick fix to one problem, only to completely miss the point of the bigger game. When recruiting for the majors recommences we will then see just what the ratio of F/O to Captain is with regard to the exodus. With the majority of F/O's now uncompetitive for progression to a jet job, QFLink will more than likely have less problems retaining them. They will however lose most of those experienced Captains essential for the mentoring and training roles.

We can speculate as what that will lead to!

SemperFly

5th Aug 2008, 12:25

Once more for the slow people.
On the subject of the trainee program.
- The trainee program has not been canceled.
- The trainee program is actually working pretty well for what it is supposed to accomplish. (more FOs for the sausage machine)

On the subject of bitter and twisted pilots.

Okay here we go. I actually like my job. I actually look forward to going flying most days. The days I don't are the days I have some bitter and twisted d*ickhead next to me all day bitching and moaning about how bad things are and what a victim of 'management' they are.

Here are a few facts for all you folks out there.
You have a choice. If you think you are constantly being screwed over by Qlink, REX, Mainline, Virgin, JetStar, Cathay, M@cair, [insert vitriolic hated or choice here] exercise your freedom of choice and leave and go do something else, somewhere else. Stop playing the victim

I have never met anyone who didn't think they should be paid more (including me :)). However the reality of the situation is this. At some point someone said to you 'here are the conditions of the job, in return we will pay you this much, would you like the job' and you said 'yes'. The pay scales aren't secret, everyone knows what they are coming in. If you don't than you are stupid and you deserve what you get.

If you don't think you are paid enough and you think you can get more somewhere else. Either exercise your freedom of choice and go somewhere else or stop bitching. Stop playing the victim. If you are not good enough to go somewhere else than be happy somebody is paying you stupid ass at all.

Stop looking for excuses to be angry and take some responsibility for your own life.

And really Krusty you work for REX so what do you care? What do you care if every single check and training captain, and line captain for that matter walks out of QLink tomorrow and the whole place falls in a great big heap. Aside from the fact that it gives you one less thing to grumble about why do you care? It would actually probably be a good thing for our brothers at REX, less competition and a bigger pool of applicants to choose from.

Everyone reading this has a choice. If you think QLink are pack of f*ckwits, than work for someone else. If you think REX are a pack of f*ckwits, go work somewhere else. If you think JetStar are a pack of f*ckwits go work somewhere else.

If you are unhappy have the balls to do something about instead of just bitch. You life, your choices. Stop being a victim.

[emergency vent switch off]

KRUSTY 34

5th Aug 2008, 13:21

Quote:

"And really Krusty you work for REX so what do you care?"

Believe it or not SF, I care about the future. Be it QFLink, REX or whatever. You are absolutely right when you say that you (I) have never met anyone who didn't think they should be paid more. But the sad reality is that wages and conditions are the only thing left that will reinvigorate the profession. All this sidestepping and creative recruitment is only serving to mask a much deeper problem. You are correct with your assertion that the Traineeship has achieved it's goal. It's just that IMHO it will not solve the long term problem. I hope I have made that clear. If I haven't, then we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point.

I'm sorry you don't see where I'm coming from. Not because I necessarily wish you to share my point of view, but the stress I feel in your reply gives me some concern for your blood pressure. Please stay well. The industry needs all the experienced pilots it can get!

Sincere Regards,

Krusty.

1000togo

6th Aug 2008, 02:44

SemperFly,

I have to say I find the content of your postings somewhat bizzar. There’s a fair amount of anger there for someone who “actually likes their job and looks forward to going flying most days”.

I am not a “kiddie” rather someone with over 1000 hours who, having been shafted by flying in early 2002, gave away flying for something that would pay the bills. The Qlink training program represented a great way back into something I missed dearly. I was given a conditional offer that meant renewing my expired IR and finishing my ATPLs. I, like eternity, left employment to do this. Before doing so I explained my situation to Qlink and made sure they knew what I was giving up for a chance to fly for them. I was told on several occasions that “they would be running a course a month until the end of the year” and not to worry “as soon as I met the conditions of my offer I would be put on a course”.

Now I understand aviation, I’ve seen enough to know there is no such thing as a ‘sure thing’, but what has gotten to me is the assurances made by Qlink, then the sudden about-face. In my original conational offer there was no mention of being put into a competitive hold, and if there was any doubt the minds of Qlink management that the program might not go the distance, then this should have been made clear from the outset. I now find myself much worse off than before being given the offer, and I am not alone. I know several others in the same position.

Now, getting back to SemperFly. You say the traineeship has not been cancelled. Well true, officially it has not been cancelled, but at last count there was between 60-80 conditional offers made for the traineeship. With no courses until next year (at the earliest), and places on those courses severally curtailed, do you think all of those people will be offered a course? No, of course they won’t. Then you say that the trainee program is actually working pretty well for what it is supposed to accomplish. Well, yes and no. I think you will find that the only trainees who are currently doing line training are the first batch to gone though the course back in March! The rest are delayed for one reason or another.

Finally SemperFly, I do not think the world owes me a job just because I applied for one, but I do think that Qlink owes those of us with conditional offers some form of explanation. I have kept my end of the bargain, is it really too much for me to expect Qlink to do the same?

bushy

6th Aug 2008, 03:24

This sort of behaviour has been going on for decades. Our airlines have always been able to con the wannabies and have a large pool of pilots on the "hold file" at no cost to themselves.

That's why GA has been flooded with airline wannabies who believed they were only there for the short term.

And our airlines have a "competituve hold file" and are also talking about a "pilot shortage".

T80

6th Aug 2008, 03:39

Mate Im in exactly the same boat as you. Have held up my end of the agreement and finished all my ATPL's, renewed IFR etc. Have now been waiting for weeks now and not be told a thing. Have also made big sacrifices too leave work and take up the offer, and now seem too be thinking exactly the same as you. I know of people on future courses who have been screwed around and had their courses put back. I have also been told that last course for the year is Oct and that all future courses will have reduced numbers on each course rough figure I heard was 4 intakes per course. Good mate of mine was told he is on the January course, which works out too be 9 months since been given the conditional offer until course start date! Im now looking for casual work as Im not too confident of anything happening until next year and even then if any more screwing around after that I will have too seek legal advice, as I have come too far put it all on the line and spent too much too let it slip.
Cheers

SemperFly

6th Aug 2008, 03:41

Once again.

I in no way condone, defend, or make excuses for Qantas hiring practices (I have no say in them). I have been shafted along the way myself from time to time.

As I said before

I think not honoring their word shows a complete lack of integrity and I think you have every right to be pissed off.The original question by Spinner 69 was "Any truth to the rumor (the trainee program has been canceled). The answer is no.

How often the courses run and how many on each course, I have no idea I don't run the program. The point I was trying to make was there is no intention to cancel the program (as far as I know), because everyone is pretty happy with the output of the program.

Yes there have been delays at getting everyone through line training. Everyone saw that coming. But for those trainees that are waiting, I can think of worse things than sitting around on full pay waiting for your training slot to come up.

Once again I am not defending anybody's (management, trainees, etc) position here, simply providing information. If you look at the program totally objectively from the company's point of view it accomplished its (short term) goal. So why cancel it?

Before the program - shortage of FOs. After the program - no shortage of FOs.

I am not saying anybody is right or wrong, I am not saying it is not being handled poorly for you guys, I am not saying things couldn't be better. I am simply providing information to those who asked for it, given what I know about the program from inside QL.

On the subject of the trainee program.
- The trainee program has not been canceled.
- The trainee program is actually working pretty well for what it is supposed to accomplish. Before the program - shortage of FOs. After the program - no shortage of FOs.

As for my 'bizzar' anger management issues. I do like my job and I do look forward to flying most days. I just hate to see a pleasant day ruined by flying with some serial whinger who can't seem to take responsibility for their own life. They bitch and moan all day when they are flying, then go home and bitch and moan all night on PPRUNE. If people are that unhappy with their life they should just man-up and do something about it instead of constantly whinge and wait for someone else to fix all their problems. (note. before you have a go at me, this is not directed at any of the trainees or applicants here, but the bitter and twisted line pilots/ppruners always looking for an excuse to be pissed off)

Finally SemperFly, I do not think the world owes me a job just because I applied for one, but I do think that Qlink owes those of us with conditional offers some form of explanation. I have kept my end of the bargain, is it really too much for me to expect Qlink to do the same?

I couldn't agree more.

SF

SemperFly

6th Aug 2008, 04:33

avi8r

I personally would pursue any opportunities out there that appeal to you. If you get a look in at more that one operator, fantastic. Take the best offer.

SF

KRUSTY 34

6th Aug 2008, 05:38

About 15 years ago Impulse airlines went on a recruiting drive. Only pilots with at least ATPL, >3000 hours, and at least 1,000 hours multi were invited to an interview. Good jobs were as rare as hen's teeth, the major airlines were staffed by a reasonably young pilot group (very little attrition), and QF were only employing cadets.

More than 100 well experienced and qualified applicants were asked to come in for an interview. Because of the above mentioned industry conditions, they came from near and far. Some spending large amounts that they may have illaforded to make the journey to Sydney.

Guess how many positions were on offer? 20!!!

It is this sort of behaviour, amongst other things that has led to the decline of aviation as a profession in this country. Over the last year or so, the reality has finally started to sink in to the characters who embark on this sort of racket. An almost complete about face has seen the airlines seek out those last remaining experienced drivers and actively attempt to whoo the impresionable and perhaps not so savy youngsters. Of course this did not include essential improvements of T&C's. The only thing that would have avoided the whole process in the first place!

So now we have a large number of eager young candidates who are about to get a salient lesson about leopards. What blows me away is the overreaction of QFLink in the first instance (sort of like the shotgun effect, and to hell with the risk to the candidates), and then the obscene haste in the way they put the skids on everything!

Keep it up boys. If you think the shortage of pilots is problematic now, just wait untill the last remaining keen wannabes finally get jack of all your bullsh!t!

SF. I get it, no need to reply!

1000togo

6th Aug 2008, 05:42

avi8r - the figure comes from a contact within Qlink, but if you've heard it's more it wouldn't surprise me.

devolved

6th Aug 2008, 09:45

I'd love to know how many cats are sitting on conditional offers and are in or soon to be in this hold file?

a QLink traineeship isnt the only job in the world.

T80

6th Aug 2008, 09:58

Make that 4 cats i know off on hold with conditional offers, waiting for 2009!!

eternity

6th Aug 2008, 11:02

it's now number 5 with me in the 'competitive hold file'

Maloo

6th Aug 2008, 22:55

Don't worry about the hold files boys. I've heard that course five which is due to finish this weekend is being split into two groups with one group starting in Sydney on the 1st of September and the other group to start sometime in October. 3 and 9 week delays, sounds like fun!!

E&H

7th Aug 2008, 00:08

Interesting times Krusty...I had been "absolutely guaranteed" an interview with a company..Two weeks later I rang them only to be told that they had employed some pilots who were "already endorsed on type... you know how it is." And they wonder why pilots shaft them and show no loyalty. I have been out of the industry for over two years and it is has been so refreshing to deal with people who actually appreciate what you do for them.

Gun_Knutt

7th Aug 2008, 00:23

Wife and 3 kids back home, spent prob $10000 that I don't have to get current and ATPLS, What the F do I do now?:ugh:

Capt Mo

7th Aug 2008, 01:11

Hey Everyone

Im also in this "competitive hold" file till 1st or 2nd quarter 2009.

Who knows what will happen if anything. I have spoken to so many people in the same boat and read the responses here and have decided to continue building my experience, keep taking jobs and if they offer a start date - great, if not then I wont feel like ive put my life on hold for the next 6-9 months (or longer) just to be dissapointed like everyone else. I've even just accepted a new casual job with a great employer who is very reasonable and knows and is fine that I may only be there for 6 months or so.

I feel bad for the guys who have left their current jobs to do their ATPLs or had start dates and have been delayed or postponed indefinately :sad:, good luck to you all and hope everything works out.

Cheers,

Capt Mo :ok:

ops_are_normal

7th Aug 2008, 01:21

I guess in 6 months time when they go to battle stations again or when ever the next reactive actions comes about everyone with conditions offers that has given up jobs and been burnt will not trust them and stick with what they’ve got which will possibly have better conditions anyway than a 4 year and your first born child sign up deal! :eek:

Then what QL go to the media again and cry about those nasty pilots that arn't loyal to the poor little regional carriers... :hmm:

das Uber Soldat

7th Aug 2008, 06:49

Very irresponsible comment.You should have thought about your family before you did this

oh, thats helpful.

I'm on hold like everyone else it seems. I've gone back to my old job. I wont be holding my breath. I do feel for people who have made real sacrifices on the word of QL, only to then get burned at a mere whim with little or no explanation.

moneytalk001

7th Aug 2008, 07:13

G’day all

Just got a letter from Qlink……

Basically told me to ‘Pi$$ O%F”….after stage 4….:suspect:.
Called most of my referee…infact two of my referee called me and told me they sounded really enthusiastic…looks like you got the job….!!!!
Experince…
1800TT ATPL 600JET…

Now I know why I went overseas…Aviation here is soo fickle

Anyway…. Upon hearing the news I bought Dash 8 POH book thought I’ll do some heads up study….so now I am stuck with it :{…need to get rid of it so if anyone interested pm me….

Good luck to all….:ok:

Aviator500

7th Aug 2008, 09:53

I got the email today from QL saying that they have changed their requirements. I only have low hrs and no MECIR, not all ATPLS and 80 hrs PIC. They now want 100 hrs and MECIR before commencement of the course.
With the current economic climate I feel its to much to ask and really who's to say they will not change these mins again. To me this does not seem like a 'traineeship' anymore.
Time to continue with my career outside of the industry. I just hate how QL have treated those with conditional offers and those that have left jobs to get current only to say 'thanks but no thanks'.....this treatment of prospective applicants/employees just doesnt happen in the 'real' world!:=

KRUSTY 34

7th Aug 2008, 11:57

Anyone see the Perfect Storm on Movie Extra other night? When faced with a bare ocean with few fish, the crew decide that they want to cut their losses and head for home. The Captain (George Clooney) summed it up in one phrase. "So now we have arrived at the moment of truth".

I don't think I've met one man, and even some women, that didn't at one time or another want to become a pilot. The very small percentage that suceed quite often throw logic, and in many cases financial secruity and even relationships to the wind. The others cut their losses and head for home. Those that do cut their losses may very well be showing better judgement than those who persevere.

There has never been a better time to get into the game. But the game is still every bit as ruthless and uncompromising. If you only got into the game, or the only reason you got back into the game is because of a shortcut (see Traineeship, Cadetship, etc..) then maybe this game isn't for you after all!

1000togo

7th Aug 2008, 12:41

You should have thought about your family before you did this and coming with a "What the F do I do now" attitude doesn't show your concern for your family

QFcaptain, what kind of self-rejoice w%$ker comes out with that kind of comment :=

Best of luck with that attitude of yours.....

08-600

7th Aug 2008, 21:06

Something light for those that have been burnt..

YouTube - Ronnie Johns - Chopper - Harden the **** Up (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y&feature=related)

DeafStar

7th Aug 2008, 23:29

Lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth going on here. It seems people who arent even employed by QFlink are suffering from managements reactive approach to challenges in the industry. It wont get any better once your in. These guys are chasing their tails. At the moment there is a glut of FO's and not enough Captains. The training focus is now on upgrading FO's to command which has been on the back burner for the last year due to the mad rush of getting new recruits. The TSV refueller tells me that once the balance is restored maybe recruits will be the focus again.

There is apparently still a few dudes to go to Virgin so there is still some movement left. Also expect a massive rate of attrition around January 2010 when alot of the ancient ones depart for the retirement golf course.

overhere

7th Aug 2008, 23:56

The reality is no-one was ever guarenteed a position - condition 2 on the conditional offer letter clearly said it was dependent on there being places available.

If you left your job then you took a risk that didn't pay off - that wasn't QFLink's fault.

The unfortunate thing about aviation is there are too many negative people who feels the world owes them - lets just sum up the QFL traineeship to date:

1. They established a program that allows for recruitment of pilots well below any direct entry requirements of any airline in Australia,
2. They paid for airfares & accom for applicants to travel to the recruitment (which not many airlines do - including QF),
3. They made exceptionally quick conditional offers & didn't hold people after the recruitment days for months as other airlines (including big brother) does,
4. Once in they will refund an amount of ATPLs,
5. Once in they pay for bridging courses to get you up to scratch,
6. You are remunerated far better once in then others with the same experience elsewhere,
7. QFL didn't cancel the program but instead have at least enabled to keep it going.

As someone with a conditional offer I'm happy that the program is still in one piece and can't really see where they have ever been non-transparent with us?

I'd suggest that if you can't deal with a minor set back like this in your fast tracked career then as krusty said this may not be the right industry for you.

1000togo

8th Aug 2008, 00:38

"So now we have arrived at the moment of truth"

Krusty, Beware of getting life affirming philosophies from Hollywood blockbusters. Next you’ll be telling us “Life is like a box of chocolates......” :E

DeafStar

8th Aug 2008, 02:29

Well said Overhere.

rmcdonal

8th Aug 2008, 05:06

The TSV refueller tells me.....
That would have to be the best phrase I can think of to summarise pprune. :}:E:ugh:

das Uber Soldat

8th Aug 2008, 07:10

ok, so who just got this letter:

You are advised to withdraw your current application and resubmit it once all of the
above qualifications have been met. This will assist us to better identify and evaluate
your application.
For those applicants who currently hold all the above qualifications, you are advised to
contact Nathan Jaffan, Trainee Program Co-Coordinator, on (02) 9691 7494 who will advise
you of the next stage of the application process.

I find this interesting, new minimums specified as:

• Australian Commercial Pilot’s Licence (CPL),
• Australian Multi Engine Command Instrument Rating (MECIR). The navaids endorsed on
the Pilot’s Licence must be ILS, LLZ, VOR, NDB, DGA and GPS enroute certification.
• Passes in all Airline Transport Pilot Licence subjects,
• Current Class 1 Aviation Medical,
One hundred (100) hours as pilot in command at the commencement of the Trainee
Program at General Flying Services (GFS) in Melbourne, and
• Passes in Year 12 Maths and English or equivalent.

I'm just about to go back to my old job, however I have everything on there bar GPS DGA which I can get fairily quickly. I do wonder however, if its worth going through all this crap again, or if we'll just get shelved, yet again.

Thoughts?

RogerRamjet01

8th Aug 2008, 10:11

Yeh, I got the very same letter. Dont have all the ATPLs yet.

The letter is at least a month late, but I suppose better late than never.

Cannot say I am terribly bothered that I dont meet their new requirements. A company that has such little regard for its potential future employees that it leaves them hanging for so long?? Doesnt speak well for how they treat their people. Also, I suppose I am not surprised that the goal posts have been shifted in any case.

I am a little surprised that people have taken such huge risks based on a "maybe" judging by previous posts. I guess I go by the rule that until you firm committments (ie a signed job contract) in writing, everything is up in the air (no pun intended) and you should be extremely cautious about risking anything.

UnderneathTheRadar

8th Aug 2008, 22:44

To those to whom a withdrawal of application was suggest, just bear in mind that should you withdraw, get the qualifications and experience they require and then re-apply, there will be no reimbursement of costs incurred as you may have been expecting.

If you do withdraw, remember to insist on a refund of your ASIC money.....

cunningham

9th Aug 2008, 01:22

The word on the street was it was an absolute clusterfu*k from day one.
Candidates were booked in for sim evaluation and interviews without having been through the online testing, and some candidates who were initially told they had passed online testing have now been sent the dear John letter.
Although I'm sure those affected feel frustrated and disappointed, you have been spared a career of being shat on from a great height by "managers" who couldn't find their ar*e with both hands. QL people are generally a great bunch of people who are treated like doggie do on the bottom of a sandshoe.

Best of luck with your careers to all concerned.

1000togo

9th Aug 2008, 07:23

Do those that have received a letter saying that they need to reapply, once requirements have been met, have a conditional offer? or are they in various stages of the application process?

BoundaryLayer

9th Aug 2008, 09:17

I got the email and I was previously scheduled for a sim/interview day which was postponed. Looking at the new IR reqs - inc. DGA and GPS endos - will mean additional training for me plus the cost for a re-issue, before I can reapply. :ugh:

At least my psych results are good for 18 months, think I'll take my time and see how things pan out. Good luck to all, esp. those with conditional offers etc.

MotionPotion

10th Aug 2008, 01:38

1000togo...I got that letter you're talking about as well. For me, I haven't done the interview and sim yet so according to Nathan Jaffan, have to wait another 5-6 months for those to start up again. People will be confirmed via email once a solid timeframe is given. I assume you're in the same boat?

It is very annoying all this chopping and changing of everything associated with this whole process...they're obviously doing some major back pedalling now after being way too eager to start with.

Also, has anyone who's signed in to withdraw their application and reapply had a security certificate warning come up? It warns that information you put in can be seen by another fake website or something and recommends you to not continue. I'm a bit paranoid now about entering it...

1000togo

10th Aug 2008, 03:17

Thanks Motion Potion. I have a conditional offer, but I wondered who the letter was being sent to. Good luck.

UnderneathTheRadar

10th Aug 2008, 05:03

I had heard that the 4 months was abritrary and extensions were being offered if you simply rang and asked.

However that was before the goal posts were shifted.....

BoundaryLayer

10th Aug 2008, 09:45

MotionPotion,

They just haven't renewed the security certificate (expired on the 3rd of Aug), they've probably been too preoccupied! :hmm:

desmotronic

10th Aug 2008, 22:49

Anothe change people should be aware of is the bond. At the roadshow we were told it was 2 years reducing pro rata. Website now says 3 years full cost not reducing pro rata. :hmm:

Big difference IMHO.

MotionPotion

11th Aug 2008, 00:45

Yeah I noticed that it expired on 3 aug. Tried installing new certificate but made no difference. I just entered the site anyway and resubmitted my application.

HAHA preoccupied with what BoundaryLayer? :p They should have all the time in the world now seeing they've put everything on hold till start of 09. Good luck with your app!

Capt Mo

11th Aug 2008, 00:57

I went to the Sydney roadshow and the information on the site has always indicated that the bond for the Trainee Program is 4 years, and 3 years for the Dash 8 Endorsement. This has not changed.

In summary this Deed of Agreement states that if a Pilot is employed by QantasLink at the end of the Trainee Program and remains employed for a 4 year period that none of the training costs need to be repaid. If the Pilot remains employed for less than the 4 year period, then the Pilot will be required to repay a pro-rata amount of the total training costs.

QantasLink pays for the cost of the Dash 8 Type Rating. First Officers are required to sign a Training Bond which essentially says that if the Pilot remains employed for a period of 3 years, then the Pilot will not be required to repay the cost of the training for the Dash 8 Type Rating.
If the Pilot was to leave within the 3 year period then the Pilot would be required to repay a portion of the Dash 8 Type Rating training costs which would be determined by their length of service with QantasLink.
Note: Pilots who are employed by QantasLink and who have signed a Deed of Agreement (4 years) and a Training Bond (3 years) this does not result in a total of 7 years in which the Pilot is required to remain employed with QantasLink. Each Agreement is a stand alone agreement which means that the time periods are separate in each Agreement. The Deed of Agreement is signed at the commencement of the Trainee Program and the Dash 8 Type Rating Training Bond is signed upon commencement of employment with QantasLink.

Mo

cancelsar

12th Aug 2008, 05:49

One thing about aviation, never give up and you will get there. Well that has been my experience. The tide changes quickly and remember about 3-4 months ago Airlines were stressed about not having a pipeline of pilots.
Keep positive and don't listen to negative people.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/d-g-general-aviation-questions/338091-qantas-no-qantaslink-yes.html

Chuck_YeagerBomb

17th Aug 2008, 04:17

just wondering if any direct entry boys have been given the nod for a start date recently? i have only heard of people getting the no letter....have they completely ground to a halt?cheers

Pablo E

18th Aug 2008, 07:41

Are there any applicants out there that applied when the traineeship was first offered and still hav'nt heard anything. Except perhaps, the update deadline email.
Keep hearing about the "knock backs", and the "re-apply with more experience", and also the, "course on hold til next year", what about the rest of us?

"Littlebird"

18th Aug 2008, 15:21

"Ditch QantasLink...Aim High Now!" The best career advice from a real friend (ex QantasLink). Now proudly sitting in the left hand seat of a B737 with VB.

I applied for Direct Entry and got stuffed around for months on end and decided to do something about it. Withdrew my application and took my services elsewhere. If you want to fly for a flock of Pelicans, you will feel right at home with this organisation. How good was the roadshow? What a waste of my Friday night. Talk about a badly planned pre-mature useless activity. Recruiting should stop bull****ting people. If you don't know your head from your arse...you don't know. Just say so!
Your choice, your career, your life, your regrets...

Received the call last week from VB...start Nov/Dec!:ok:

LB :)

empacher48

18th Aug 2008, 21:33

Are there any applicants out there that applied when the traineeship was first offered and still hav'nt heard anything. Except perhaps, the update deadline email

I haven't heard a thing since that deadline email. I'm over in NZ, but with 1500 hours, 100 Multi, ATPLS for both countries and current MEIRs for both countries too...

Not a peep... Oh well, I guess they're just not interested.

Di_Vosh

18th Aug 2008, 23:34

There's a lot of angst in this thread, and some of you appear to think that you deserve to get in just by applying for the traineeship. Others of you appear to be acting like if you dont get into QL, then it's "game over" for your career!

The traineeship is still going on, but at a much reduced pace. Of course, when the courses are cut from 20 per month down to 8 (or less), people are going to be pushed back onto later courses, or be told "next year", etc.

The main reason (AFAIK) for the slow down is that QL can't train 20 people per month! QL simply does not have the training capability! Fuel prices may have had some effect, but is minor compared to the lack of available training capability.

At Eastern, it's only been within the last week or so that the first of the trainees have been checked to line. These were the trainees that started at GFS in March, and many of them are still doing their line training. The second course of GFS Trainees are only just starting their line training.

I'm not defending the way that QL recruiting/management have handled any of this. It's not been done well by any measurement, and I really feel for those of you who received conditional offers, only to have had the goal posts shifted.

But life does have it's disappointments! It's how you deal with the obstacles and losses in your life that matters.

So you didn't get in, or haven't heard, or got told "reapply", or whatever.

Okay, well, life hasn't stopped just yet! Stay positive!

There's plenty of aviation work out there. Build your hours up, re-apply, or apply elsewhere (Like LB did). It's not the end of the world if you have to wait another year or two to get into an airline.

If the worst thing that ever happens to you in your life is that you didn't get into QLink, then you should still die happy, IMHO! :ok:

DIVOSH!

empacher48

19th Aug 2008, 00:55

As I said.. Oh well.

I realise there are other options out there, some better, some worse. Its not a big deal in the scheme of things!

desmotronic

19th Aug 2008, 04:39

Littlebird,
Just wondering how you got a gig at virgin since in march you said you had 490 hrs TT and no fATPL? What is your experience now?

devolved

19th Aug 2008, 05:03

Empacher48!!

If QLink are all quiet-
With those hours i'd be getting in touch with all 3 NZ Link airlines bro! And all the rest (vincent/AirWork/Air nat).

Pablo E

19th Aug 2008, 08:03

Di Vosh,

We are all well aware of all the other great opportunities out there. Loads of great GA jobs and Airline. We do understand, and most of us have continued building hours and will more than likely take on bigger and better opportunities in the near future. That is not the complaint here.

We are disappointed with the lack of professionalism. How difficult is it to fire of a blanket email, keeping everyone informed on the current situation, good or bad. I'm sure most of us would just appreciate being kept in the loop.

Instead, we are forced to get our feedback from this forum, with some often "sketchy" information and some biased opinions.

ALLICEDUP

19th Aug 2008, 08:19

Pablo,

Well you get the same experience from the other airlines around Australia, frustrating, but what do you do? Maybe the company isn't the place for you? I worked there and loved it, miss it quite a bit actually!

Di_Vosh, totally agree with what you posted....

devolved

19th Aug 2008, 08:55

the "Chopper Reid - Harden the F*&K up australia" video comes to mind :}

youtube it, its classic. Always using it around my workplace.

empacher48

19th Aug 2008, 10:34

With those hours i'd be getting in touch with all 3 NZ Link airlines bro! And all the rest (vincent/AirWork/Air nat).

Yeah I am talking to the 3 link carriers, but with big bro interviewing but delaying start dates until next year - doesn't help too much (apparantly I don't have enough IF time for NSN)..

I have had a VERY positive response from PB too..

As I say Oh well... It'll be QL's loss..

"Littlebird"

20th Aug 2008, 04:36

Desmotronic,
Yes, that is correct 490 TT (fixed wing) as of March, but another 550 hrs on various helo. I Currently stand at a grand total of 1450 hrs with 600 hrs PIC on twins.
Completed all 7 ATPL exams by mid May, and have been doing some solid flying on twins since Feb.

Cheers, LB:ok:

charlie uniform mike

20th Aug 2008, 06:50

Well done little bird it is not surprising someone with your intiative got into the airlines.

desmotronic

21st Aug 2008, 22:07

Well done indeed.

KRUSTY 34

21st Aug 2008, 23:53

Congrats "Littlebird".

Out of curiosity, what twins were you flying since Feb this year?

Pablo E

22nd Aug 2008, 07:53

Allicedup,

Maybe you missed the point here, only expressing my frustration, like many others here. You said, "Maybe this company is'nt the place for me". Are you trying to tell me that QL only have positions for "wallflowers", or people who sit back and take a pineapple up the rear end. Because that's what it sounds like!

Six months left in the lurch is unprofessional, does'nt matter which airline it is, or GA operator, or any other industry for that matter.

Condoning this behaviour, and sooking about how much you miss them, spells out what type of person you must be. All I can say is good luck with your aviation career, best you keep a jar of "Vas" handy, sounds like your going to need it!

Hugh Jarse

22nd Aug 2008, 10:22

Pablo, if it is such a great place to work, you have to ask yourself why most of the pilots in Pilot Recruiting have left the company in the past 18 months? All went to Virgin - the "unofficial" career progression company of choice for Qantaslink pilots :)

Pablo E

22nd Aug 2008, 11:33

Hugh Jarse,

Agreed! 18 months worth of pilot loss to Virgin tells you something is wrong with their formula.

I, like many others, was extremely optimistic towards their solution to diminishing staff numbers due to progression and retirements.

The traineeship, in theory, had great potential if implemented correctly.

Just a shame they had to f$#k it up. Silly of me to believe some positive change had been put in place, Nup!, confidence in QL is back to an all-time low.

Sue Ridgepipe

31st Aug 2008, 03:04

I, like many others, was extremely optimistic towards their solution to diminishing staff numbers

And what a great solution it is/was. These clowns are as bad as Rex management, they just don't seem to get it. Why not address the issue of why people are leaving and try and stop the flow, rather than ignore that issue and spend all your efforts coming up with a scheme to replace them when they do leave. :ugh:

If recruiting takes off again with the majors they might find themselves short of captains and a bunch of f/os not ready/unable to upgrade.

capt_akun

31st Aug 2008, 05:33

avi8r,

From what i have heard, group 6 has moved on to Dash 8 training material instead of the 767 syllabus of the first 5 groups. There is 7 exams, during the whole course, including FCOM, Dash 8 manuals, spec...etc It seems, from second hand source that the course has gotten more intense then previous.

Akun

flyboyUK2003

3rd Sep 2008, 23:10

Hey All,

I was just wondering if anyone who has already been through the course down in Melbourne might have any tips on what to study up on before commencing? I have a start date for October. Haven't heard anything from them in a while, so i'm taking "no news as good news". I'm just trying to prepare a bit at the moment, reading up on IFR and Multi Engine stuff, and would appreciate any advice on offer. Feel free to PM me, cheers.

devolved

4th Sep 2008, 09:58

Also anyone know what happened to N. Jaffan?

Lasiorhinus

4th Sep 2008, 10:44

Didn't he take a job with Virgin Blue?:}

freshcpl.co.nz

4th Sep 2008, 10:57

..was told hes gone on 6 weeks leave:rolleyes:
Guy by the name of Stephen is looking after things at the moment.

Also, has anyone been given any firm start date for next year, or are we all getting the standard 1st/2nd/3rd Quarter of 2009 story?

Yep was told exactly the same:ugh:

devolved

5th Sep 2008, 23:01

Gosh there was no mention of 3rd quarter when i was dealing with them a couple months back.. eek..goes to show, you should not really hold ya breathe (or career in this matter) for them. Good excuse to get the ATPL theory and what not out of the way.

Captain_Dandoon

8th Sep 2008, 14:40

hey guys, i havent read all 600 posts and ive just joined, but is the QANTASLink Traineeship still going? and when will it close if its still going?

i plan to get my CPL and Multi-engine IFR next year and possibly turbo-prop and pressurisation endorsements next year as well. would it still be open by then? thanks

devolved

9th Sep 2008, 10:49

standby, ill just look into my crystal ball shall i...

mate aviation has to much dynamic to predict that kind of thing.. Would be great if the traineeship is still required next year. But i would not wait around for it, if your willing to move then go find "any" flying job, being a fresh CPL, best thing to do is to get hours in the log book. The traineeship has taken some huge set backs in the last 3 months or so, delays etc. And it seems half the country is sitting on conditional offers.

danaero

16th Sep 2008, 14:09

Can anyone tell me if there are Direct Entry Pilots currently being employed by Qantas Link?

I have had 6 friends all have interviews lately, none successful. Hour’s ranging from 2000TT to 4500TT with more than 500 ME C under the IFR, some with turbine. I am just wondering if they are actually recruiting direct entry pilots at all at the moment, or just continuing to interview to make it look like they are still actively recruiting.

I have an interview (Direct Entry) next week but thinking about withdrawing and applying at a time when they are actively recruiting to increase my chances of being successful.

Has anyone out there been successful lately? Or only Cadets (who are currently on active hold). Does QL actually have check and trainers at the moment and actually putting F/O’s on?

Any new QLink trainee’s (Direct Entry) pilots who can put some light on the subject?

Cheers

MotionPotion

17th Sep 2008, 00:48

This is what I've heard so far about what's happening...

I don't know much about the direct entry guys, but as far as the trainees go, the last course of the year is starting next week (I think) in Melb and there are only 7 people on that course. Then in the first quarter of next year (yes there's that word again) they will be starting up the interviews and sims again, which is the boat that I am in. I also heard that a couple of people were kicked out of the last course as well, don't know why though.

I just wish that they weren't so impulsive to start with...now they have such a huge backlog of people and it's seriously slowing everything down! :*

I hope this has shed some light, though it might've been said before. If anyone has any other info, pls share! :)

MotionPotion

Altimeters

17th Sep 2008, 00:54

Yep. When I did it back in August, a month later all 3 of us had been unsuccessful.

So no idea what's going on...but with half the country on condtional offers for the traineeship it'll be interesting to watch and see what Qantaslink does. :ugh:

KRUSTY 34

17th Sep 2008, 00:55

Continue to stuff people around. What do they care.

Hugh Jarse

17th Sep 2008, 00:57

I have had 6 friends all have interviews lately, none successful. Hour’s ranging from 2000TT to 4500TT with more than 500 ME C under the IFR, some with turbine.
Danaero, I would suggest your friends were unsuccessful because they didn't meet the minimum required standard (sim, interview, referee check or all of the above). Otherwise, they would have been placed on the hold file (if no positions were currently available).

Experience is not, IMHO, a reliable yardstick as to one's likelihood of passing a recruitment session. I've seen applicants with less than 1000hrs operate the sim to a higher standard than some with several thousand hours under their belts. The same applies on the line.

For example - Sometimes having thousands of hours is of little benefit when the applicant has been poorly trained from the outset, and has used those thousands of hours reinforcing poorly learned techniques......... That was something that became increasingly prevalent in recent years. I had a theory that it was partly a result from the brain drain of experienced IFR instructors from GA. This statement is not directed at you or your friends, but merely a general observation.

Getting back on the subject. I've observed applicants who were notably proficient in the sim miss out at the interview, and vice-versa.

Some applicants minimise their chances of missing out by preparing for the session with some real sim practice (not that thing in the city) and interview coaching. Sometimes you have to spend a dollar to make a dollar.

Good luck with your decision.

Chuck_YeagerBomb

17th Sep 2008, 05:10

hugh arse,

how do you know if there is even a hold file? i too went through the direct entry process late august and kept in touch with 5 others who went through it all....not one of us got put on a hold file, all were told to apply again in 6 months...
i pose the question...is there any people or people know of people who had been offered a position (direct entry) within the last 2 months?
i dont believe there has been anyone....

cheers

Hugh Jarse

17th Sep 2008, 05:44

Hi Chuck,

For the whole 14 years I worked there, there was always a hold file. Perhaps it's changed now that there suddenly is an unquenchable supply of suitable applicants....

One possible reason for no DE pilots have been hired is because of the bonding associated with the trainee/cadetship. DE pilots are very "portable", and less likely to stick around long-term whereas trainee/cadets are more likely to stay (for a while).

HappyBandit

17th Sep 2008, 06:22

Krusty: Continue to stuff people around. What do they care.

They do care. They want to give you the job. Trust me...You just have to prove to them you want it. From my experience the recruitment process is extremely thorough. Sometimes aviation is unpredictable and I guess Qlink are now dealing with this change as best they can. Just be patient my friend....in the meantime go get some valuable hours and like Hugh Jarse noted perhaps go get some real sim experience.

Altimeters

17th Sep 2008, 23:26

DE pilots are very "portable", and less likely to stick around long-term whereas trainee/cadets are more likely to stay (for a while).

Not when given the option to go to mainline after 2 years like they were all saying during the roadshows. Most of the prospective trainee applicants were more interested about when they could go to mainline than ask questions about Qantaslink.

KRUSTY 34

18th Sep 2008, 06:42

Thanks for the encourageing words 'Bandit, but it was more or less a rhetorical statement.

Some years ago, after recieving an automated Email that stated QFLink, "following worlds best practice", now require all candidates to have a Dash 8 endorsement, (at that time the cost was around $18K!) I promptly withdrew my application. I had in fact moved on since years before when I originally submitted it. Since then I have been following their antics with some interest. The aforementioned behaviour was at a time when pilot supply was still realatively bouyant, but even then blind freddy could see the storm approaching. It was just another way for some short sighted manger (term used loosley) to earn some kudos and increase the size of his or her bonus! It is behaviour like this that has led to the profession being in the state that it is today.

Be under no illusion mate. The leapord has it's spots well and truely intact. Instead of dealing with the pilot supply problem long term, QFLink (and they are certainly not alone, ie: REX) are merely attempting to engage a workforce that will gladly accept lower conditions than what the current and future market demands.

It is this shortsighted, easy option "solution" that has led us to this point today. As soon as the game shifts into another direction, they will just as quickly reneg on any "agreement" if it suits their short term goals.

Trust me, they do not care!!!

SemperFly

18th Sep 2008, 13:04

Blah, blah, blah, whine, whine, whine. Boo hoo, life is horrible.

That broken record of yours play any other songs Krusty? :rolleyes:

KRUSTY 34

18th Sep 2008, 18:23

You know Semperfy you're right. What was I thinking.

I'm going out today and buy the biggest jar of vaseline I can find.

:ok:

Dragun

18th Sep 2008, 21:14

:D Brilliant! And most likely lost on most in here..

SemperFly

18th Sep 2008, 22:19

You have already expressed your views and displeasure at the state of the industry / management / life / [insert new reason to be pissed off here] literally hundreds of times already on just about every thread in the forums. We get it already, we all get it, we really do.

Offer something constructive, move on if you hate it that much, or give the broken record a rest. :ugh:

Dragun

19th Sep 2008, 05:06

The fact Qlink just offered 20 FO positions to South African pilots isn't going to help you guys get a start date. I'm very surprised they've actually gone ahead with this considered the downturn in general recruitment by other airlines.

Hugh Jarse

19th Sep 2008, 06:25

Not when given the option to go to mainline after 2 years like they were all saying during the roadshows. Most of the prospective trainee applicants were more interested about when they could go to mainline than ask questions about Qantaslink.Altimeters, little do these applicants know that there is NO progression agreement (in the true sense of the word) after 2 years. Unless you consider that after 2 years both the S&P you did for QL lapse, and, in addition to being required to satisfy all the requirements of an external hire - your FT-9's must also meet a certain standard AND you need a good reference from your manager. Hardly a career progression......

So it is actually more difficult to transfer to Mainline via the QL "internal transfer" process, compared to somebody applying directly from, say REX.

That's why most QL pilots reapply externally.

Dragun, if your information is correct, I suspect the 20 Yarpies would possibly be very experienced, and targeted for fast-track commands (bypassing seniority). This is considering there are less than a handful of "upgradeable" FO's in the company (NSW/VIC). That would explain everything.:E

garman

19th Sep 2008, 06:39

I recently had a talk with someone who couldn't be anymore in the know about whats happening in the future with the qantaslink traineeship.. and the word is that although hiring for the traineeship has recently slowed down, it will again pick up in a big way. It was also mentioned that some of the successful applicants will be asked to instruct for a period of time before entering employment with qlink. There were no dates or numbers mentioned, but I was told by this someone to "watch this space".

Q4NVS

19th Sep 2008, 06:50

Dragun, if your information is correct, I suspect the 20 Yarpies would possibly be very experienced, and targeted for fast-track commands (bypassing seniority). This is considering there are less than a handful of "upgradeable" FO's in the company (NSW/VIC). That would explain everything.

I think 20 is a long shot...

The figure is closer to 5 AFAIK.
Yes, the one's I know are very experienced with 5000+ Hrs TT and upto 3000 Hrs Dash 8 300/Q400 time (Left Seat included...)

:zzz:

DeafStar

19th Sep 2008, 07:43

20 positions offered. Will be interesting to see how many accept. Also these dudes could have 5billion hours but they still go to the bottom of the list. Possibility of some angst when there are no current FO's in the southern states with the experience requirements for command and one of these guys bypasses them. Petrol on the fire....

Q4NVS

19th Sep 2008, 08:13

Also these dudes could have 5billion hours but they still go to the bottom of the list.

Well, no one said they wouldn't.

Possibility of some angst when there are no current FO's in the southern states with the experience requirements for command and one of these guys bypasses them.

Is that not the way it works the world over...If you do not have the experience requirements, then you do get bypassed...To be considered next time again...If you still don't meet the requirements then bypassed again.

Chadzat

19th Sep 2008, 11:29

For those of us outside the company could any of you share the company experience requirements for command? I take it it would be similar to Rex, Ie 2000hrs TT on top of ATPL, 500 multi command under IFR etc......

SemperFly

19th Sep 2008, 13:08

These are the requirements:

1. You must meet all regulatory requirements;

2. 2000hrs aeronautical experience;

3. 700hrs experience as an FO on company aircraft;

4. A minimum of 1 year company experience.

** The Mgr Flt Ops or his delegate may vary 2,3 and 4.

ATPL aeronautical experience requirements may be completed during promotion training.

and of course the right number on the seniority list

Track Direct

19th Sep 2008, 14:18

Hey Semperfly did you take your own jar of vaso to the interview ? :E

SemperFly

19th Sep 2008, 22:08

Yes and I spent the whole time crying and whimpering. It is so horrible to be a victim, poor me (sob) :{

:E

Duff Shark

19th Sep 2008, 22:43

Huge Jarse is right there is no formal progression and looks like this was a just carrot dangled in front to sweeten the deal. The issue is that QFLink management dont have the authority to do this as yet or ever (pending EBA negs). The truth is that management want to keep us all separate so they can keep us down.
But to all those out there its still a good job, they pay for the endo (via bond), they pay you training wage the entire time , accommodation included, people you work with are great and you dont have to clean up spew in the back of the plane so it get the thumbs up:ok:

Dragun

19th Sep 2008, 22:48

Hugh

That information is straight out of the Link Up Newsletter...

Wing Root

28th Sep 2008, 05:15

There are more D/E stage 3 interviews and sims throughout November. Has recruitment been ongoing or is this the first D/E batch for a little while?

flyhigh744

28th Sep 2008, 09:23

Cadetship is how I got in!

Although, looking back, I feel a slight twinge of regret not being able to do some general aviation. The stories and pictures some of you post are simply astounding.

Keep up the good work :ok:

Di_Vosh

28th Sep 2008, 10:23

There are more D/E stage 3 interviews and sims throughout November. Has recruitment been ongoing or is this the first D/E batch for a little while?

There were DE applicants in the first four trainee intakes (i.e. there were DEFO's that started in late July). AFAIK there has never been a bias against DE recruiting.

DIVOSH!

Lando Calrissian

30th Sep 2008, 04:38

After passing Stage 2, how long are guys waiting now before stage 3?

Is there flexibility if you are unable to attend the sim ride/interview dates given to you?

Then how long until a start date?

HomeJames

2nd Oct 2008, 00:44

Hey Lando,

Got the knock back a couple of months ago, not sure if it's changed much but I applied in early March and didn't get an interview till Sept. Did the Stage 2 in June. Good Luck with it all.

Don't spare the horses

Magichands

2nd Oct 2008, 07:42

Did stage two maybe four weeks ago and have stage three in early Nov. I guess I had about seven weeks notice of stage three. Some flexibility in the dates - you get to choose from about four days they nominate. If none of those are suitable, I'm not sure if you could ask for others?

Not sure whether to hold my breath or not as to the result........don't know of anyone who has started recently.

Q4NVS

11th Oct 2008, 09:51

QantasLink Crewing Crisis - Is it over..?

:zzz:

KRUSTY 34

11th Oct 2008, 20:27

It's only just begun!!!:{

Dragun

12th Oct 2008, 05:41

With most of the FO's up the top of the sustaining fleet seniority list only getting 20-30 hours flying per roster, I'd say for the time being a gap has been filled.

For the time being...

Uptotabs

12th Oct 2008, 07:13

Yep.. I would second Dragun's comments. The Q400 FO's are in the same boat.....20-30 flight hours for the roster and it has been like that for the past five months

brns2

12th Oct 2008, 11:07

what time period is a roster? 2 weeks?

turbantime

12th Oct 2008, 11:11

what time period is a roster? 2 weeks?

Roster period is 28 days.

Q4NVS

12th Oct 2008, 17:52

The Q400 FO's are in the same boat.....20-30 flight hours

Huh, that doesn't make sense...Why are everyone suddenly flying so little? :sad:

Dragun

12th Oct 2008, 22:05

Why are everyone suddenly flying so little?It's due to a combination of a backlog in training and Qlink having filled the void for the time being. There are enough FOs right now, simple as that. Rosters are looking very sparse (yes, it's a 4 week roster). One of the more senior FOs I know is only rostered for something like three overnights this roster. And with almost all overnights these days starting at 3pm and finishing at 11am the next day - you do the maths.

DeafStar

12th Oct 2008, 22:11

Yet Alliancelink stil operate on the MKY route.

MotionPotion

14th Oct 2008, 03:22

I've got the "1st quarter of 2009" business for the interview and sim. Not holding my breath though. Just hoping to get enough multi hours elsewhere so I can apply to other places sooner rather than later!!

I know there's a ground course running in Melb, but is there endorsement training going on in Sydney at the moment too?

Wicked shimmy

16th Oct 2008, 21:57

Given that Qantaslink now appears to have a surplus of FOs. Do you think it’s fair to assume that they will not be starting the Traineeship up again next year? I can’t honestly see any reason why they would continue with it. However, I doubt that Qantaslink would actually confirm such a situation. Rather, I consider it likely they’ll just keep those of us with conditional offers ticking along in case they have a need for us in the next few years. Sound likely, or am I being a little pessimistic?

harrowing

17th Oct 2008, 00:18

Wicked shimmy,
Perhaps you are a little too pessimistic.
Have you researched how many new 400s are planned to arrive in the next year or so, and the number of new but empty pigeon holes in the crewroom?
Do you realize that for every new F/O there is normally a training requirement for an upgrade of classic F/O to 400, 400 F/O to classic command and classic command to 400 command? The training section is flat out, and the captains are working pretty hard as well.
Nothing happens overnight.
When you consider a lot of those in QL may not have got in first go, probably spent several years in GA, had an absolute minimum of 1500 hours and 500 twin, if not the 3000 or so that was the norm, and then had to serve five to six years to get a command, and then not always at their home or desired base, you may not get much sympathy from them, not that you were seeking it of course.
After too many consecutive CB-SY-CB runs, your enthusiasm may even wane a little.
Have patience and good luck.
You might even enjoy some GA experience in the meantime.
Cheers, harrowing
PS When we get a wicked shimmy in the nose wheel, we generally get a replacement for it straight away.

HappyBandit

17th Oct 2008, 23:46

It appears that this thread is running around in circles and people are generally rehashing.

I reiterate harrowing's words. It's been a hard slog for some of us to get into Qantaslink and some of us have had to patiently wait to get in but in the meantime we weren't sitting around on our backsides complaining about the management style.

Get out!!! Your time will come. I have come to realise in fact that when not looking work comes to you.

Finally as I have pointed out before the program is likely to continue for next 12 months at least.....it has too! Expecting 12 400's this coming year! You do the maths!

Cheers and good luck :ok:

Alice Kiwican

18th Oct 2008, 00:10

Harrowing's right the problem at the moment is that there are new F.O's being accepted but there are not enough Training Captains to train them! Hence the delays in starting. CNS currently has only 3 F.O's for the 300's with apparently 9 waiting to be trained! Good opportunity to keep up flying skills in G.A in the meantime I guess!:ok:

Wicked shimmy

18th Oct 2008, 00:54

we weren't sitting around on our backsides complaining about the management style
Who’s complaining? I was posing a genuine question. I am aware of the Q400s on order, but this industry has a habit of changing at very short notice. Aircraft deliveries included.

You might even enjoy some GA experience in the meantime & Get out!!! Your time will come

I, like many others, have ‘gotten out’ and spent a number of years in GA. There are those of us lined up for the traineeship that don’t fit in the ‘newly qualified’ box but are unable to apply for DE. Not everything is black and white. As much as I want to be an airline pilot, I am unable to quit my current job, take a huge pay cut, head up North and to put my family in a financial hole for a career which, up until now, has not been very kind.

So people, calm down and perhaps don’t tar every traineeship candidate with the same brush.

harrowing

18th Oct 2008, 01:57

Wicked shimmy,
As the responses to your question appear to have offended you, I/we could paraphrase the replies to "YES."

Wicked shimmy

18th Oct 2008, 02:22

Harrowing, you misunderstand me.

I am not offended, I am simply pointing out that there are a variety of differing experience levels, and personal circumstances, waiting for the traineeship to recommence. I am also saying that a question regarding the traineeship is simply that. It is not a bitch, a moan, a request for sympathy, or an invitation to be told to ‘get out’.

harrowing

18th Oct 2008, 04:18

Delete all above and insert:
Q1. No.
Q2. Possibly, yes.

j3pipercub

18th Oct 2008, 05:45

Having done both I would like to think that 'GA' and 'Instructing' are two very very different things in what they ask of a pilot. I am assuming Wicked Shimmy that if you have spend considerable time in GA without the 250 hours of multi, then you must be an instructor??

Anybody else gotten through lately?

Got knocked back in September, maybe they don't need guys and girls that badly afterall. Funny, after that scored a job flying greater than 5.7t machines command, on better clam and working half as much! Happy Days!

j3

rmcdonal

29th Oct 2008, 08:37

There is still a back log of line training to be done, especially in Sunnies. I would suggest that could be the cause of the delays.

Duff Shark

29th Oct 2008, 22:56

Most crew are not particularly happy with the push for mainly trainees over the next few months to honour commitments made after the interview. This is not due to the usual trainee/cadet slanging crew but just a practical issue.

The problem we all see is that the company continues to delay many of the DE fo's start dates till next year... shortly there will be a shortage of FO's that can hold an ATPL, and thus bid on a command slot. The issue of command vs icus is irrelevant the fact is that many low hour trainees will require at least 3 years experience to gain enough hours for an ATPL.

Currently crewing is a joke, club 400 Fo's working 40-50hrs a month in sunnies, with some classic FO's hardly pushing 1-2 flights per week, Massive shortage of Training capts and line capt working in excess of 90hrs a month 8-10 overnights a roster. The catch 22 for every 400 capt they promote from a classic Capt, they then have to promote a classic fo to 400 then replace the classic fo with new hire, 4 lots of training.

Word on the street is that many capt/Checkies/Trainers are just hanging around for the bonus, and to prop up their super, so these guys will leave on mass end of next year and who will be able to take these command slots ?

KRUSTY 34

30th Oct 2008, 01:06

It'll be the quick or the dead!

Poach, poach, poach!!!

HappyBandit

30th Oct 2008, 04:39

What really pisses me off is when people, I assume not even in the organisation, speculate as to what is going on!!! I guess that's why they call it a rumour mill though!???

Duff Shark:

I have absolutely no idea where the hell you have obtained your facts. The fact is that its the 300 drivers are working their arses off. The 400 drivers are doing it pretty tough too but there is quiet a few trainees at present so checked to line FO's doing approx 40-50 hours a month.

And what are you on about regarding most crew not happy with trainees. In contrast, senior management have all noted that they are extremely happy with trainees. A practical issue??? What practical issue would this be?

Glass

31st Oct 2008, 08:57

all current trainees that were finished/finishing the Melbourne course received a letter yesterday. it stated that they were suspending the course, and they could expect further information in march 2009, and that they could also expect another sim assessment for competitiveness next year. some of these trainees had q400 sim training booked for next week.

Pablo E

31st Oct 2008, 09:39

Still hav'nt heard a peep! Thought all applicants were going to get a "yes" or "no", shortly after the roadshows. My application must have got lost in cyberspace!

empacher48

31st Oct 2008, 19:44

Still hav'nt heard a peep! Thought all applicants were going to get a "yes" or "no", shortly after the roadshows. My application must have got lost in cyberspace!

Don't worry, you're not the only one, and we can't update information or anything like that either.. :suspect:

1000togo

31st Oct 2008, 23:35

Glass,

If true, this smacks of incompetence! This thing has been a **** fight from the outset. Seems Qlink created a monster and now it’s come back to bite them in the arse. It’s just a pity it’ll effect so many hopefuls who had careers pinned on this dog! :mad:

j3pipercub

1st Nov 2008, 00:04

Go to be a bit of a kick in the guts for the guys ont he course, kinda feel sorry for all concerned, and in a way kinda glad i got a knock back:E

NAVITIMER.

1st Nov 2008, 05:24

Thats just the start of it, all current Qantas cadet pilots that graduated last week from Adelaide, have been told that there are no current options for them to work in Qlink or mainline as they are both full!! Such a kick in the guts also..

Gun_Knutt

3rd Nov 2008, 11:04

Well, sounds like I was in a similar position as wicked shimmy. Gave up good paying desk job to fulfill requirements of the "Condition Offer" letter. Was left up the creek without a paddle and a family to feed. Got job with M A C A I R and am very happy. You'll all be glad to know there's one less waiting for the golden nod. There are plenty of operators out there with jobs that may not be quite as glamorous, but equally rewarding - maybe more so. I would like to thank Qlink for getting me off my arse and back into the job I love. The saab ain't no Q400, but it's a great machine and I'm working for a company where the CEO knows me by my first name (admitadly I do have to keep reminding him). I kinda like that.

Good luck to you all. Remember, the harder you work, the luckier you tend to get.

KRUSTY 34

3rd Nov 2008, 19:23

Well done Gunn Nutt.

Quite often one door opens as another closes, but we have to make it happen. Once upon a time many people got into flying purely for the love of it. The realisation that one could not possibly fly enough to satisfy the addiction, usually led to seeking higher qualifications and ultimately that coveted first job, as humble as it may have been.

To those now suffering at the hand of poor planning and indifference by airline management, get used to it. If your love of flying is strong enough, you will eventually succeed. If your only focus is "Qantas pilot", you may still succeed (and the best of luck to you), but your career options may be somewhat narrow.

charlie uniform mike

3rd Nov 2008, 21:08

"Thats just the start of it, all current Qantas cadet pilots that graduated last week from Adelaide, have been told that there are no current options for them to work in Qlink or mainline as they are both full!! Such a kick in the guts also.. "

What do you think will happen to the 30 odd cadets down in melbourne when they finish early next year then?? It cant be looking good for them?

aviationboy

6th Nov 2008, 09:21

rubbish happybandit.
I am a classic FO for sunnies and i have been doing around 50hrs/month. 400 fo/s have been doing even less at around 30-50hrs. We assume this will increase in the coming months as training decreases. Duff Shark is quite correct in saying that training captains are being grilled.

Wing Root

10th Nov 2008, 13:27

There's stage 3 interviews and sims for D/E throughout November. If the general theme of this thread is to be believed then you would think there will be no spots for these pilots... or are they now seeking people with hours which will allow a shorter time for command upgrade?

Spinnerhead

11th Nov 2008, 00:49

Happy Bandit maybe talking about the goings on at Eastern. Although why he would get 400 flying (95% Sunnies and 100% Sunnies AOC) mixed up with what is going on in Sydney - I have no idea.

I am sure that management are very happy with their trainees - they created them. The line captains are finding them a little more challenging compared to what they were getting just 12 months ago.

Bort Simpson

12th Nov 2008, 07:04

Q400 are on the Sunnies AOC but are being cross crewed by eastern drivers out of sydney (TW AY CH PMQ and some CB). So he could be refering to the sydney based contrast.

climingflightlevels

12th Nov 2008, 07:26

Wing Root there are still D/E FO's that have been accepted in July waiting for a start that I know of. If they are still interviewing it would be just to give themselves a bigger pool of pilots to choose from as some have obviously gone elsewhere. There is also the consideration that they are getting 9 more Q400's earlier in the new year....

mpl_yz250

27th Nov 2008, 06:13

Gun Knutt,

I'm in the same boat as you, left a well paying management job in another industry to fufill QL requirements to be told you need to wait another 9-12 months (probably more now). I have just landed a job steering 19 seat turbines around, and deal with the company owner daily. Thanks QL for getting me off my arse and out of my comfort zone, I now have a great job without the associated politics.

Pablo E

5th Jan 2009, 05:51

Is this program officially over?

This thread seem's to be!

There must be someone out there that know's something!

Aviator500

5th Jan 2009, 07:50

Pablo - I was wondering the same thing. I notice that the 'traineeship' is 'not currently open' on their website....

Dragun

5th Jan 2009, 07:54

That's because even junior FO's are being rostered for only 4-5 days work per roster! Gross over supply of FO's at the moment so don't hold your breath for any courses anytime soon...

jackson's_joyflights

25th Jan 2009, 15:05

Hello all fellow QL traineeship hopefulls,

Just wondering if anyone has any idea when the last group to get through training in Melbourne or Sydney was?
and
Do QL have any time table for the future of the traineeship program?
also
Anyone else still awaiting information on active hold?

I applied for the program in Feb last year. Interview was in April 08 and I was offered a conditional offer on the spot.

I meet the conditions as required (Along with Bachelor Degree in Aviation). I was informed in August that I would be put on "ACTIVE HOLD" and I am still awaiting information about this active hold. (Whatever that is supposed to REALLY mean).

I understand that this may be a dead thread as the program is no longer active and many people have been left out in the cold, but can anyone shed any light on the situation?

Thanks,

Jackson

eternity

26th Jan 2009, 05:14

Hi Jackson,

Am in the same boat as you.
On "Active Hold" with a 'proposed' start date of either the 2nd or 3rd quarter of this year.

However, since this whole 'global economic debacle', I have not been given any updated information.

If anyone else has any information, or gossip they fell like passing off as information then please do share.

Eternity.

grumpy greyhound

27th Jan 2009, 22:41

Joyflights and Eternity ,you are on the list so be patient. As I said on another post some time back the trainee thing was overdone-too many too quick etc. Some sat around for months waiting for training slots some missed out but at least those inside were being paid! Also mentioned on another post is the ongoing problem of suitable people to take commands[by suitable I mean hours in the book and an ATPL]SO essentially future direct entry people with an atpl and sufficient hours will obtain commands when they come around before many of the trainees[even though some of them think they should be the capt now with 300hrs ha,ha] IN the main they are good kids full of youthfull enthusiasm and eager to learn. Remember the cadets have been around for a long time but the trainee thing is a new process and a learning curve for both old and new. SOME bits have been handled well and some not so well--to state the obvious.We have seen the managing upwards concept taken to new heights ,no pun intended, but hope fully this stuff will be addressed in training. So the bottom line for you is keep your job and update the resume regularly. I am told the icus programe is still to be approved. Safe flying. GG.

harrowing

27th Jan 2009, 22:55

gg
I concur.:D

Fonz121

27th Jan 2009, 23:21

Is there any point putting anymore trainees through while there are now people with DE requirements waiting for a reply? Probably being biased because I am one of them but it was my understanding that the traineeship was more of a temporary fix for the climate 6 months ago.

A31J

1st Feb 2009, 22:00

would anyone like to speculate on the length of time a candidates psych and skills/recruitment process data and details hold valid?

assuming a '...you're on active hold..' letter, how long, in the event nothing continues to be offered from QLink resource management, does the original 'nod' continue to be valid?

some would say 12 months only, others, 2 years perhaps..

if nothing were to have been forthcoming at this point, what would happen?

i know of those who've had to go through the entire process again after initially (successfully) jumping through all of the hoops, but then not having been offered a start. this was after a 3 year 'gap'

:ugh:

KRUSTY 34

1st Feb 2009, 22:43

Mate, I know this sounds terribly negative, but why should these characters (management) start behaveing responsibly now? They over reacted to the shortage by recruiting every low time wannabe in the country, rather than attempt to retain the people they could least afford to lose. Then, when they were flush with pilots (many of whom cannot hold a command) they simply cast the remainder to the wind without so much as a proper explanation or the curtesy of a professional follow up!

It's this sort of behaviour that has in part led the profession to where it is today. Get used to it, because these are the D!ckheads that you may be working for one day. :ugh:

Hugh Jarse

2nd Feb 2009, 02:48

would anyone like to speculate on the length of time a candidates psych and skills/recruitment process data and details hold valid?

2 Years...........

A31J

2nd Feb 2009, 05:12

:)

thanks Hugh..I thought you might know this one

Glass

3rd Feb 2009, 11:08

A mate of mine on active hold got the email today...

Traineeship is over for 2009, all applicants invited to reapply with direct entry requirements. Thanks for your time, QL.

Fonz121

4th Feb 2009, 00:00

Hey guys,

can anyone tell me whether or not this test has changed? Ive been asked to do it for DE and it says it will consist of a numerical and verbal aptitude test and also a motivational and personality questionaire. Did it ever use to include the cubes? or was that just mainline? There is no indication that there will be any type of that stuff involved but just wanted to make sure. Anyone done it lately?
Thanks in advance.

Fonz121

4th Feb 2009, 00:59

aviator777

Thanks for the reply, wont waste my time on cubes then. Just another quick Q. did you find the maths extremely hard to finish in time? Whats the normal completion rate I wonder. Cheers again.

j3pipercub

4th Feb 2009, 01:06

That would be a case of how long is a piece of string. If you study like mad for a couple of weeks then you should find that you won't have a problem

j3

Tidbinbilla

4th Feb 2009, 03:44

Here you go folks. Merged into one so that should make it a bit easier.

TID.

rmcdonal

4th Feb 2009, 07:26

DE FO with QL tests 1 year ago where the same as the Mainline tests. Cubes where in it.
The Trainee test was different.

Fonz121

4th Feb 2009, 09:07

Was that when you still had to go in person to sit it? These days its just done like the traineeship from home. Well I assume it is because thats how Ive been asked to do it.

rmcdonal

4th Feb 2009, 09:59

Was that when you still had to go in person to sit it? These days its just done like the traineeship from home. Well I assume it is because thats how Ive been asked to do it.

Yes it was done at QCC. If they are asking for it online now then I can only assume its going to be the same test as the Traineeship.

DeltaT

6th Feb 2009, 07:59

Whats the story on paying some AUD$400 for the interview tests for Qantaslink?!!! $100 for another medical I already have, and $100 for a security check I've already done:mad:

Edit: Update.
Get this, gave SHL a call, even though WE pay for the test, we DO NOT get a copy of those results!!!!

UnderneathTheRadar

10th Feb 2009, 09:39

Just curious to see if anyone accepted into the traineeship hasn't yet recieved a piss-off-and-die letter?

As alluded to up higher, I got mine today with the same message - it's all over.

Anyone like me interested in discussing their legal options feel free to pm me - I'm certainly going to take it further....

UTR.

splinter11

10th Feb 2009, 10:31

why dont you stop whinging and go bush like the majority of us, all u guys want is a free ticket with no experience....

mcgrath50

10th Feb 2009, 10:37

I would imagine suing the company would lead to a red flag above your name when you put your CV on ANY airlines desk? And fair enough too.

Jeps

10th Feb 2009, 10:40

Does anyone know if they will ever start this up again. Say in 18-24 months time etc

KRUSTY 34

10th Feb 2009, 10:57

How long is a piece of string Jeps?

They'll do whatever they think they can get away with at the time. The shortage of experienced pilots will continue for years. QFlink, REX, et'al have ensured that by persisting with the notion that there are other ways, any way, other than what is the only way to garrentee the long term supply of suitably qualified candidates.

For those of you with the passion, the honest, if not exactly tactful words of splinter11 should be ringing loud and clear. Get out amongst it, and when the actions of these clowns that call themselves airline HR finally come back to bite em', make sure that you are in a position to reap the benefits!

If that's too hard, then you're probably better off doing something else.

UnderneathTheRadar

10th Feb 2009, 11:00

I know it may not seem popular, all I'm asking for is repayment of money spent after receiving a binding offer from Q/Link which included repayment of that money.

McGrath50 - Red flag to other airlines - well, that's for each individual to decide. Too right? Well the flip side is - are you prepared to get shafted on an employers whim for the rest of your life? If nothing else, hopefully it may help pass the message to employers need to think carefully before carelessly handing out offers.

Sphincter11 - get a life - not everyone does it your way.

UTR

overhere

10th Feb 2009, 11:23

In all fairness many of the people on active hold weren't low timers (I wasn't) - many just lacked the 250 twin required for DE.

Many gave up great jobs (or have compromised their positions), many spend thoasands getting MECIR's back up to date & completing ATPL subjects in the required 3 month time frame - all while sitting on offer letters and being told that they'd be in the next course with specific dates quoted.

Then, nothing for months and just a blunt e-mail essentially saying go away - not even a phone call.

Many meet the DE requirements for QF but no offer to transfer applications across when QF recruits again.

I understand how the economy has messed up plans for QFL however I sincerely hope that their management understand the impact this has had on people who committed to them - we have families, mortgages and compromised jobs because of the time frames we were given and now no course - it's not a nice place to be.

Personally I just think some better communication and some consideration of looking at transferring applications elsewhere in the QF group is all that's needed - I don't want the world and certainly wouldn't consider legal action - I'd just like to know that they realise the impact they've had on many - I somehow however based on the e-mail we receiced doubt they care...

Kangaroo Court

10th Feb 2009, 18:20

If you don't have at least 1,000 twin you're low time by most people's books.

KRUSTY 34

10th Feb 2009, 19:28

Quote:

"If you don't have at least 1,000 twin you're low time by most people's books."

True!

Quote:

" - I somehow however based on the e-mail we receiced doubt they care... "

Sad, but true!!

Guys, I bang on a lot about the ruthless nature of airline management. If it was accompanied by a measure of competance, I could almost accept it. No, they're not a charity, and they are facing challenging times. The way in which they have treated people who trusted them however is futher evidence in my book of just how removed from reality some of them have become!

Just another nail in the coffin!

freshcpl.co.nz

10th Feb 2009, 22:10

Dragun

11th Feb 2009, 00:10

Just to confirm that everyone with current applications, whether completed and accepted or in the process, is now getting a letter/email saying no more jobs this year?

rmcdonal

11th Feb 2009, 08:08

What was available for pilots with the Traineeship was a one off opportunity for pilots to skip GA and jump straight to an airline. It really was a dream come true for some, some got in with 200hrs and the ink still wet on their CPLs. That particular window was only open for a very short period of time. It occurred due to the aligning of the stars (if you don't know how this all worked out then you really didn't deserve a job, as you haven't done your homework). They no longer need to offer this back door into the company and so they have closed it.
A letter of intent is just that, things changed.

Many gave up great jobs (or have compromised their positions), many spend thousands getting MECIR's back up to date & completing ATPL subjects in the required 3 month time frame

a) Don't ever burn your bridges!
b) I know several people who made the effort over their GA carriers to keep their CMEIR Current rather then letting them slide whilst flying S/E.
c) Applying for an airline job without a Frozen ATPL or above is akin to applying to be a Doctor without a medical degree.

Many meet the DE requirements for QF but no offer to transfer applications across when QF recruits again.

QF is not QLink, they are separate entity's. The minimums for QF is lower then that for QLink, if you want a mainline job then apply to mainline.

I don't want to be the nay sayer here and I can certainly see how the Airline has made some mistakes, but at the same time 5 years ago it was 2500+hrs even to get into QLink and 5+ years to command.

If you really want in then it shouldn't take you that long to get there. :ok:

Best of luck to all.

Bo777

11th Feb 2009, 22:06

Unfortunately things can change over night in aviation.......such is the nature of the beast. If only 6 months earlier, av777 and others instead of whinging you'd be singing the praises of Qlink. How true is the saying in this industry "timing is everything". As I said to a friend 12 months ago who was accepted into the traineeship last year and now has just received the email "while you're waiting go out and get some command experience". Do you think they did it??? So TOUGH T.....S. No real sympathy here for gals and guys who've knocked but other job opportunities and find themselves in the same position they were 12 months ago.

capt_akun

16th Feb 2009, 23:09

From what I have heard,

The acceptance to melbourne was not an acceptance to the job itself. Melbourne was another test/interview for them to weed out the less competitive. You are only hired when you start training in Sydney (pass the melbourne course)

So, even though some of you got the conditional offer, it was more of a conditional offer to go through to the next stage. :(

That said, I do feel for those who did not get in:sad:, and now looking for a job in this tough time in the industry. However, stick it out:ok: and your reward will come soon.

mlesser

19th Feb 2009, 11:37

I got the letter of intent for this program. And was recently told it was no longer an option! But its all good, and i thank them for the experience.

Mind you, i was living at home with my old man still and didnt have to worry about families and mortgages. (etc etc)

However, i had a ball. I got to fly a 747 sim, i got to experience a panel interview, by stroke of luck they upgraded me to business class for my flights to sydney (dont know how or why that happened). Plus i got to leave Kununurra for a week to do it.

But in doing this traineeship and knowing people who got in, im not too upset that im doing the GA path. Its a good experience and i get to fly in and out places that most people dont ever want to visit, but someone has too.