Air Cadet Gliding pix in the 80s (pre glass)

[WHBM]

WHBM: that would have been a slingsby T38 Grasshopper
Thank you, looking at photos of it on the web now.

Looks like it could have given some inspiration to the Wright Brothers .....

[Flying_Anorak]

Jez,

We have a T21 (with C of G hook mod) at the club I'm Chairman of in Oxford, you are more than welcome to come and have a go with or without a Biz Jet ride in return (although if you are offering and insist it'd be rude....!).

PM me if you want to take this further.

Cheers,

[JW411]

Now Slingsbys built a Primary and so did Elliots of Newbury. Both of them were basically beefed-up versions of the DFS SG-38.

One was stronger than the other. I have it in my mind that the EON version was the stronger.

Clevelands at Dishforth had one upon which I did several full blown winch launches. This was enormous fun and the bit that fascinated me was that you could see the launch cable between your feet tapering away into the jaws of the winch a long way below. It was possible to fly the thing with hands and feet off just by moving your weight around.

On one fun day, we had early morning radiation fog. Some bright spark suggested paying 50p to be towed around the peri track at Dishforth on the end of an aerotow rope behind an Army Land Rover.

When on the parallel taxiway northwest bound, just over the fence from the old A1, it was possible to stuff on a pile of left rudder and so find yourself facing the odd truck driver southbound on the highway. We thought it was fun but the modern Elfin safety would have had us locked up in seconds.

Andy Gough at the RAFGSA Centre at Bicester had another one and I did several aerotows in it. Great fun!

[zetec2]

I flew at Bicester starting in 1958, first "flights" in/on the Primary were on the gimbals, graduated to short hops across the airfield on the bungee, then winch launches, reckon we could get back on the ground after cast off from some 700 feet faster than the cable & parachute such was the sink rate (thats how I remember it anyway) from that we then flew the Grunau 2B (Anita Schmidts, the white one where is it now ? !) the T21 came after you had soloed, used it to refine our flying, then Prefect & Oly. this was before it all became the RAFGSA & Windrushers.
Currently have a copy of AP4472A Grasshopper T Mk1 sat in front of me (it's going on E-Bay shortly as clearing out my gliding paraphanalia), ah happy days. Paul H.

[Fitter2]

On one fun day, we had early morning radiation fog. Some bright spark suggested paying 50p to be towed around the peri track at Dishforth on the end of an aerotow rope behind an Army Land Rover.
You have missed out the good bit of the story (unless that was another occasion). WingCo Flying was on his rounds and almost collided in the fog with the land rover who's driver was mostly looking over his shoulder. Concluding his business, and returning to the gliding club hangar, he demanded to speak to the pilot, and was told he had left,; then said 'I want to see him in my office 9 am Monday morning.'

Monday morning 9am he received a phone call.

'I understand you want to speak to me'.

'Yes, report to my office immediately'.

'I suggest we meet in my office. It's just down the corridor, clearly marked 'Station Commander'.

Oh, what fun we had. I have exactly 3 launches in the Primary, 1 winch, 1 bungee, 1 aerotow to 2,000 ft. The art on the aerotow was to not beat the tug down.

[WE992]

JW411

Owning both a T.38 Grasshopper and an EON Primary and having flown them both on numerous times I can say that the EON certainly flies nicer.

[chevvron]

There was one attached to 613 in the mid 60s for a few weeks. Only 'B' Cats or higher were allowed to fly it, but the funniest thing was seeing the CO 'Jacko'(What's the holdup?) Jackson on a winch launch; he was quite a 'portly' figure and if you were on the winch, you looked up to see this ultra slimline glider with a HUGE bulge at the front!!
Years later when 613 re-equipped with Ventures, the 'primaries' were withdrawn from the schools and there were literally dozens in store at Halton; don't know what happened to most of them but 2204 (Chesham) Sqdn. acquired one, which we passed on to (I think) 1113 (Berkhamstead) Sqdn.

[JEM60]

I was Staff Cadet at Halton when the primary first arrived. It was hastily fitted with an ASI and an Altimeter, and then flown by S/Ldr Topsfield on the winch. We then flew it on a Battle of Britain day show there, which certainly made the public take notice, and frightened a landing Auster pilot out of his skin as the glider turned base whilst the Auster was short finals. I remember sitting in 'Jacko's car [an Armstrong Siddeley if I remember correctly] whilst he practised some skid control on the wet apron in a lunch hour.Interesting!. I was amused by Chevrons quoted 'whats the hold up?' from Jacko, because , as Staff Cadet, I was once asked to time launch delays in an effort to increase our efficiency, and he was not best pleased, when, at the end of the week-end, I informed him that most of the launch delays were caused by instructors time wasting, being late strapping in etc., Happy days, eh....

[Burtonwood Aviator]

My first flight in a Grasshopper was at RAF Kirton in Lindsey by winch launch. Although I have flown many types since it was a most unforgettable experience and one of my best. Subsequently flown it at Burtonwood (Again by Winch launch) an experience never to be forgotten.
Whist at Kirton in Lindsey the Chief Flying Instructor Jack Oliver flew one on Aerotow and Looped it before landing. A feat I would pass by as the grasshopper sank like a brick. Try side slipping it some wag told me!

[chevvron]

'What's the holdup' was Jacko's catchphrase. He used to wear a referee/guard type whistle and would either blow this or cough just before saying it, his voice being one which 'carried'. You often heard it when he'd driven to the launch point unnoticed in his car (a Peugot 304 or 305 in my day) and had sat in it on the airfield boundary for all of 10 seconds and observed no movement!!

[astir 8]

There's some Dutch guys who fly an extremely original T38 Grasshopper (WZ795). One of them last year did a 40 minute flight off a winch launch, which is reckoned to be a world record for the type. Anyone got any better claims?

The guys seem to have all the original kit including some boards which were to be strapped to the wings to ensure that ground slides remained firmly earthbound. Also a bracket on the stick to limit backwards movement to control "low hops" - pity about the roundout!

[longer ron]

LOL I had forgotten all about Jacko's catchphrase,I think he had a green Pug 404 with a '613' plate,he also used to park up on the tring road and watch the flying operations.
He caught me out one evening flying the 'bowl'...but I really did enjoy the holiday on the winch :).
Does anybody else remember the 'retrieve' winch to bring the cable back to the launch point (71-72 ish) to save the airfield surface ? I believe the homemade silencer (carboard boxes ?) caught fire ...it was a loud little beast :yuk:

[chevvron]

Yes there's a convenient layby on the road from the main (Halton) camp to the Aylesbury-Tring road where he used to park when evening weekday gliding was in progress. And it was a Pug 404 not a 305 (preceded by a Pug 304).
I left before the cable retrieve system came into use, but I remember seeing it there on a later visit with AEG cadets from my squadron. Could have used it a couple of years earlier. There was a course in progress mainly for CCF, and about 20 AEG cadets turned up on the saturday. Myself and Dickie Bird (both P2s at the time - that dates it) were given a Sedburgh, a single drum winch and a corner of the airfield and told to get on with it, but we had nothing to retrieve the cable as all the landrovers were being used, so the officer i/c the AEG party courageously allowed us to use his car, looping the towing weak link round the bumper!

[JEM60]

Chevron.
Dickie Bird became my business partner in my Driving School in Aylesbury whilst instructing at Halton in his spare time. My wife was his first passenger when he obtained his PPL, and I was his second!. I subsequently learnt to fly at Wycombe Air Centre, where, I believe, he is Chief Pilot etc.,. We then went separate ways, but became reunited on my retirement. He recently received an outstanding safety award from GAPAN, I think. Havent seen him for several years now.
Longer Ron.
Yes, I got masses of practice at winching also!!!! not necessarily when I wanted them. I actually enjoyed it and became pretty good at it, according to the instructors!! I was 16 at the time. Happy days.

[longer ron]

Hi Chevvron
Lucky you for missing the retrieve winch ! - it was a bit of a palaver but I suppose it did let us fly sometimes when the field was too waterlogged for dragging cables LOL
Happy days there,I remember the (wed ?) night when a fellow P2 (G1) and myself were operating AEF with Fred F authorising whilst painting his kitchen down in the village :ok: luckily Jacko did not stop by that night LOL,all 3 of us would have been excommunicated i feel.

[WE992]

At last I have found a photo of a Swallow in RAF markings:

www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1033256 (http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1033256)

[621andy]

Shame it's black and white Al. I have some colour shots at home of the red/white/grey scheme on XS651...but I won't be back until the 1 march.

I suspect you'll want yours in silver/yellow anyway, to match the rest of the fleet:ok:

[WE992]

Andy

I'm thinking of a slight variation and doing silver with dayglo.

[621andy]

That'll be good. Always preferred that scheme to the yellow.

[635Burtonwood]

Al

Try this link for a colour photo of the swallow


www.airteamimages.com/73796.html (http://www.airteamimages.com/73796.html)

I flew 3 different Swallows -but not the one in this photo -the one we used to get at Burtonwood most times was XS 651

I see from my logbook I flew Prefect WE 992 at Halesland in Aug '72 !

Brings back happy memories

b rgds
Peter

[chevvron]

I was rewarded with extra winching time too, my crime being to put Mrs Heppel down in that small field next to the airfield as you come from the main camp.
I remember Fred F too; he was the one who added new meaning to the order 'take it back to the hangar', there being definite daylight between the wheel and the ground as he went through the doors! He only lived in Weston Turville so would have been aware of something amiss, especially with that evil homebuilt sportscar of his.

[621andy]

635-What a cracking pic! Well done for finding that...

[Burtonwood Aviator]

One of the Qualifications that Instructors of A2 and above was that they became Official Observers for the BGA (British Gliding Association). This gave valuable income to the BGA as the cadets obtained their Gliding Licences. I was idly wondering if this qualification was time expired? Does anyone have Ideas?

[JW411]

Well, I have managed to find one of my old ones and it states;

"This appointment remains valid for the duration of the 1975 edition of the F.A.I. Sporting Code or until it is withdrawn by the Authority recognised by the Royal Aero Club of the U.K."

[WE992]

Burtonwood Aviator.

I'm afraid that OO's do expire. I have had to renew mine on several occaisions when the Sporting Code has expired and been updated.

635 Burtonwood.

Thanks for locating such a magnificant photo.

[Burtonwood Aviator]

Many thanks
BGA lost a lot of income when membership became no longer necessary

[Biggles of 266]

Hi, we are currently restoring XE799 back to its former glory.

Bits we are stuck for:

Might anybody out there in Memory Lane have an original intercom, or parts of, or manuals or drawings, or photographs of same.
Or even remember the manufacturer, as that would be a start.
All we have is an empty space, where it used to be.

Also looking for any parts of Type Zc seat belts, any condition, even for use as a pattern. Finding two flyable sets is becomming a challenge.

Here's hoping.
Guy

[cambioso]

Original intercom...........................???
What's one of them then??
I just remember shouting from the rear cockpit (the gosport tube being pretty useless)....................
Intercom....LOOXURY - we 'ad it tough!!!

[Biggles of 266]

It was fitted to a plate below the rear instrument panel.
here is a photo of where it was!
But isn't not there no more!:{

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4033/4344747290_3d533d5b7b_b.jpg

Guy (Photo is of WT877)

[Arclite01]

I think most of the intercoms were stripped out by MGSP at Syerston before the sale. The 2 Mk3's I brought at the 'great sale' both had no intercoms left in place (like yours)

The ones sold direct from smaller sites might have had theirs still in situ.

For originality sake - great to fit it, as a usable piece of kit - next to useless, too much wind noise, short battery life, and uncomfortable to wear.........

Arc

[VX275]

Looking at that mounting It was the same intercomm unit fitted to the Venture (I notice no one has mentioned the clockwork mouse on this thread yet) one of which I may even have somewhere.
I would suggest that such an installation was a very late one ie post 1980 as I never had the luxury of avionics! in a wooden glider. If you were wanting to get your aircraft back to original you should rip it out for as Arclite says it was next to useless and ate AA batteries.

PS. if you do keep it I'd advise you clean the intercomm plugs with polish, as apart from replacing the batteries that simple action did most to improve its performance, although even in the Venture you got used to shouting your instructions following an intercomm failure.

[Biggles of 266]

Go on, youve got to tell me what a 'Clockwork Mouse' is.......

Oh did I mention we also need 2x Type Zc belts too. Like these ones:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2788/4344016137_1bcc76f9f1_b.jpg

Would love to hear of any for sale. Any condition. In the interests of getting the old girl back together.
Guy

[Arclite01]

Survival Equipment UK | Parachutes | Ejection Seats Servicing | Liferafts (http://www.ses-safety.com/)

They can actually manufacture what you need - even easier if you have a pattern part.

BUT - you will have to wait - and boy are they gonna be expensive !!!

What is wrong with an overhaul of the ones you've got ?? Usually the spring in the lock box is the weakness so if they are OK you will probably be OK......

Arc

[VX275]

Quote "Go on, youve got to tell me what a 'Clockwork Mouse' is......."

It was one of the (polite) names given to the Venture Motor Glider (Slingsby built Motor Falke) the Air Cadets first motor glider.
I've wondered if the Venture should be mentioned in this thread because its spar caps were glass fibre although the rest of the structure was steel stube, wood and fabric.

My first thoughts as i saw one for the first time as a recently qualified Sedburgh / Mk 3 G1 was "Oooo look at all those instruments, how am I going to cope". Ten years later when was faced with the Vigilant's (Grob 109b) cockpit for the first time it was, "Oooo look at all those instruments, how am I going to cope."

[Biggles of 266]

What is wrong with an overhaul of the ones you've got ?? Usually the spring in the lock box is the weakness so if they are OK you will probably be OK......


That's easy, the picture is of another glider (WT877), ours are missing completely.
That's why I issue the plea for any condition, as anything would be a start. We have a few bits so far, kindly donated,
(bet he's listening:8) but 2x serviceable sets is a challange, without
turfing out a few more old cardboard boxes in the shed! There is always also the chance that somebody had a good one tucked away. Usually one finds that the day after paying the refurb bill!

Thanks
Guy

[WE992]

I'll have another look at the weekend!

[praesta2]

I believe that the manufacturer was Amplivox, as were the headsets, which required 6 x AA batteries. These were generally Univar rechargeables and rarely lasted the entire flying day . The only reference to Amplivox I can find appear to manufacture hearing aids which might be quite appropriate these days:)

[Alan645]

Hello All
Any of you blokes out there ever serve or visit or have any info on 641 GS before its closure at the end of 1974 . I was a staff cadet at the time and I am gathering any type of information so I can compile the Schools history. It was re located to RAF Dishforth in April 1975, any information through the sixties to its final demise at RAF Dishforth in December 1975 would be good.

Alan C.

[Biggles of 266]

WE992- Brilliant, and much appreciated!
Praesta2 - Amplivox - thats a great lead thank you.
Guy

[635Burtonwood]

Hi

Cadet Mk III WT 872 was at 635 Burtonwood from July '67 to Sept '70

Cadet Mk III WT 871 was at 635 Burtonwood from Aug '71 for a short time

I have been asked by a friend if there is any information on Slingsby Tutor VM 684. Have you any info on this please ?


Many thanks

Peter

[WE992]

Built by Slingsby Sailplanes to contract 6/Acft/5704 in 1945. To BGA791. C of A expired 2/71. On display at Hooton Park.

[635Burtonwood]

Many thanks for your quick response

b rgds

[chevvron]

'871 is my aeroplane!
On arriving at Halton one evening about 5pm (c1966), I was about to start DI-ing aircraft for evening AEG when a glider trailer towed by a landrover drove around to the doors. The driver was delivering an aircraft from re-furbishment at Kirbymoorside (he was also delivering rowing '8's to Henley) and the two of us unloaded this Mk 3 which actually had spoilers - none of the existing 613 Mk3s were so equipped. This was WT 871, and as I was the only school staff member there, I signed for it so it's mine!!!

[Biggles of 266]

It seems like every body has run out of pictures....
These are some of Al's and are my favourites:

Slingsby Cadet TX3, XE798, Royal Air Force (http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1061058/)

Slingsby T.38 Grasshopper TX1, XP490, Royal Air Force (http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1065381/)

Guy

[Burtonwood Aviator]

Hi would like to include some pictures but do not know how.
Sedbergh XN185 which was at Burtonwood from its initial start to its demise is stiil in RAF hands being proposed to be installed in the Hendon Museum. As usual Funds being a problem FOGIES (Former Old Gliding Intructors Extension Society) have been asked by the current Air Commandant of the ATC if they can help!
It was proposed to the Burtonwood Associsation that they and Warrington Council may want to sponsor this Aircraft possibly renaming it as the "Spirit of Warrington". The Jury is still out on this. If anybody wants to push this further please feel free to email or write to Warrington Council with your support.

[T-21]

No.616 Gliding School, RAF Henlow some good photos on pages 46-48 of the excellent station history here http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafbramptonwytonhenlow/rafcms/mediafiles/5F546078_1143_EC82_2E687623966EBA91.pdf

[cambioso]

Had the most fantastic day out yesterday at the invitation of Adam and his team at the 621 Historic Flight.
I arrived at Hullavington and there was a Mk3 by the origional (but far to clean!) red and white checkered caravan and a Barge just going up the launch - eye moistening stuff!
They made me very welcome and within minutes I was strapping the Sedburgh on, and off up the launch for the first time in 35 years!
A bit of thermalling on the second trip (remember the little red and green "balls"?) was followed by much reminiscing with John (another guest also ex 622 - but before my time) and the rest of the crew over tea.
Then it was time for the Mk3. Given a choice of seats I didn't hesitate to grab the back seat of course (1800+ launches in that "office") and WHAM! I was instantly back 35 years I just loved it!!
Thank you so much chaps for a fantastic day, the a/c are immaculate and the standards of airmanship (and winch launching!) are excellent.
The day was made exceptional (if that was possible!) by seeing the Grasshopper winch launched not once but twice...........amazing - Adam, and Pete...... you're bonkers! (they wouldn't let me have a go, bloody spoilsports!)
Apparently, all ex ATC GS staff are welcome and I urge you all to contact them and go and have a go.
Thanks again Adam and Co.
Jez Cooke

[VX275]

T21
Thanks for the Henlow history, I spent 6 years there as a Civil Servant with RAFSEE but I was then , and still am a member of 612 so I spent my weekends commuting between there and Benson.

[WE992]

There has been a whole bunch of photos on the Air Britain photo wesite recently of Mk3's but at last a photo of a Swallow (XT653) has been posted.

www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1229522/ (http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1229522/)

[pulse1]

I would like to join cambioso in thanking Adam & Co for a great, nostalgic day out at Hullavington.

Special highlights for me were the highest and longest flight of the day, up to 2500' in the T21, and the smart roll by the Jungmeister as cambioso departed.

I very much hope to visit again, next time by air.

[By George]

I had my first lesson in defying gravity on the 7th of October 1963 at St Eval Cornwall as a 14 year old ATC cadet. T21 WT869 with a P/O AG Hook. Anybody know him? I am still flying for a living and one could say I was "Hooked".

[Biggles of 266]

XE799, Ex Syerston, and the aircraft in which Johnnie Johnson went solo in a glider.

Quick update on XE799.
Good news, she was inspected yesterday, and is deemed to be in sufficiently good condition to fly as she is. She has suffered only minor handling damage, but the fabric and structure are generally in excellent condition. It is therefore, as hoped, entirely possible that she can be returned to flying status in her present condition, which is as she left the RAF. This means that she can be flying relatively rapidly. Target is August.
Watch this space.
Guy
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4025/4585427788_9f07bd3d85_b.jpg

[longer ron]

XE799, Ex Syerston, and the aircraft in which Johnnie Johnson went solo in a glider.

Who's he LOL ?? :ok:
Much more importantly...it is the glider I first soloed in at Spitalgate in the ''Summer of '69'' :ok:

rgds and good luck with the old girl G

[Biggles of 266]

Of course, I'll have to change her future description!
Airworthy or not, we intend to have her rigged for the Kenley Air day on the 14th August 2010, so come down and get re aquainted.:p
Guy
RAF Kenley Air Day 2010 (http://www.rafkenleyairday.co.uk/home.html)

[longer ron]

Will do sir !!

Cheers B

[zetec2]

Can any one provide serials of the T21's, T31's, Prefect, Grunau etc at RAF Bicester, late 50's early 60's please ?, pre RAFGSA & Windrushers (first time round, was an early member !) Thanks, PH, Bicester.

[l.garey]

From my logbook, Bicester early 1960s:
April 1961:
Grunau Baby: RAFGSA 159, 220, 281
Kranich B-1 wn 635 (damaged)
Olympia 1: RAFGSA 206 "26" cn 044
Olympia 2b: RAFGSA 228 "112"
Olympia 2b: RAFGSA 246 "117"
Skylark 3b: RAFGSA234, BGA844, cn 1134
Sedburgh: RAFGSA 212 (? cn 588, WB925, BGA2964)
Sedburgh: RAFGSA 238, BGA841, cn 1131
Sedburgh XN152 "Air Cadets", wreck

November 1961:
Eagle 3 RAFGSA235 "74" cn 1136
Ka6 D-3222 "175" (to RAFGSa 322)
Eon 460 G-ARTE

May 1962:
EoN 403 G-APEW (RAFGSA 306, BGA278)
Sedburgh 242

Most were RAFGSA. Any use to you?

Laurence

[zetec2]

Laurence, you are a lovely man, thank you so much, that will fill in some of the blanks in my listings, I flew there from the end of 1959 up to end of 61, one of the Grunau's belonged to Anita Schmidt (was white, I soloed in that) ended up with a closed canopy which was quite claustophobic, also we had an Oly 2B # 490 (did Silver in that), there was a Bocian & a Prefect, I ended up being one of the Windrushers founder members before the RAF sent me away to warmer (Aden) climes, but thank you for your info, appreciated, B Rgds, Paul H, Bicester.

[l.garey]

Great stuff Paul. We overlapped then. I was on the Oxford UAS side. My gliding was initially at Hawkinge, then a bit at Weston-OTG, then French Alps!
I had a nice, but cold, afternoon at Bicester in January visiting Low'n'slow from the other forum and his Tipsy. Great to see the machines in the Windrushers' hangar now.

Laurence

[zetec2]

Laurence good chance our paths crossed, I also flew at WOG as well as at Bicester, flew the Minimoa, Skylark 2 (with the big bubble/panoramic canopy) remember the big 4 drum ex navy winch ? you needed to be a magician with 4 legs & arms to operate it, (those that drove it will understand those comments !) see your comments re your earlier Bicester visit, if coming again let me know, I live across the road from the airfield & always have the coffee on, be pleased to meet you & bore you with early day "war" stories, B Rgds, Paul H..

[WE992]

Some great photos here:

www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1233448 (http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1233448)

www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1231506 (http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1231506)

www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1231508 (http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1231508)

www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1230169 (http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1230169)

[astir 8]

a) Was a similar retrieve trailer as shown with the Cadet III's used with Sedberghs?

b) If so, anyone seen one lying anound anywhere?

Dave W

[621andy]

I heard rumour that some schools had them, but we certainly didn't at 621, and I don't remember seeing any at Centre either when I did my first solo there.

Happy to be proved wrong though:ok:

[T-21]

Do not remember retrieve trailers for Sedburgh's far too heavy. Used Land -Rovers to tow around the airfield but had to watch overrun. Saw a fist sized hole in the nose of one at Halesland cause someone was not paying attention. Also rigging a Barge was not for those of weak build or stamina !

[621andy]

The only time I've ever damaged a glider was with a retrieve trolley...put one of the booms through the nose of WT877:O It was only a small hole:\

..and yes, rigging a SedbErgh(note spelling!!) was 'character building':ok:

I think the lack of trolleys was simply down to their necessity. Barges were rarely used for training at most schools; that was what the Mk3s were for. The G1s were expected to spot land to get the maximum number of Cadets airborne as possible...and that also meant no soaring!:= ...How many times did I get grounded for that:*

[T-21]

The Sedberghs were used for tall,large Cadet training and teaching thermalling.

[WE992]

Astir 8

Similar trailers were built for the T.21. My T.21 at Keevil lives on one!

www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1230059 (http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1230059)

[astir 8]

Thanks Al - always nice to learn something new about T21's

[Arclite01]

Yeah we used the same trolleys as for our Mk3's it was just more of a struggle getting them onto the ramp that was all......................

Arc

[Frelon]

Yes, we actually built one at Kenley under the watchful eye and direction of our CO, George Nunn. It was actually George who designed one of the early MkIII trolleys which were used at Kenley before CGS cottoned on to the fact that using the trolleys saved a lot of time and increased the launch rate!! It was not long after that time that we were issued with our own manufactured one (or two).
The T21 trolley that we used had a pivoting twin wheel bogie on each side which smoothed out the many bumps on the airfield at Kenley during the retrieve.
However it was decided that the whole kit was too heavy with the "barge" on it so was consigned to the back of the hangar.

[longer ron]

I do not remember ever seeing a barge on a trailer,but I do remember how exciting it was to be towed back to the launch point as a 16 yo cadet,sitting in the mk3 cockpit.
Actually spitalgate was a fairly smooth airfield so not too bad,must have been a little more bouncy for the wee cadets at Halton ...but by that time I was bouncing along in the landrover :ok: it was a great way of learning to drive LOL

[JEM60]

Halton had large ruts in it for some time, made by a Beverley that flew in to pick up the Falcons parachute team at a Battle of Britain show. Quite an impressive sight, and very impressive undercarriage tracks!!!!!

[VX275]

At RAF Benson the speed of Mk 3 trolley retrieve benefitted from the use of the main apron, one consequence of which was being accused of dangerous low flying by the Deputy Captain of The Queens Flight :ok:

[T-21]

Can anybody remember if the horizon "T" bars were used on Sedberghs ? This was a piece of black rod metal in the shape of a T and screwed into a recess on the front of Air Cadet Sedberghs just in front of the windshields It was to help pupils with regard to horizon reference for attitude flying. I don't recall them ever being used. Were they also fitted to the Mk.3's ?

Also for solo flying in the Barge we had a large lead weight "The Bomb" inserted in a tube in the nose and held by a metal bar and large split pin . Anyone know its weight ? I have seen light weight pilots strap a large water filled container into the spare seat as ballast.

[Frelon]

I started Air Cadet gliding in 1959 and have never seen the "T" bars being used in anger. The brackets for them were there on the gliders in the early days but when they came back from being refurbished they seem to have disappeared! Nobody missed them, except perhaps for the Equipment Officer who had a number of useless "T" bars on the inventory and wondered what they were used for!

[chevvron]

The ruts I remember at Halton were two types:
at the north east corner caused by the last Vulcan to land in '67; it managed to touch down about 50 yards inside the boundary!!
at the south east corner; these were actually the remnants of medieval 'strip' farming being humps where the cultivated strips had been. If you landed on one of these you knew about it as you took off again then hit the next one harder! The existence of these was surprising considering the whole airfield had supposedly had steel rod mesh laid under the grass surface (the rods often springing up during the week so that when we arrived on a saturday there were areas of 'bad ground')
Don't recall a Beverley but I was operating there with 613 for only about 6 years '64 to '70 so it must have been before or after that. (thinks - what about the Argosy, was that flown in?)

[JEM60]

CHEVRON>
My time was 1958 to 1961. Two Beverleys landed and took off from Halton, one when I was present on the B of B day [I had to wind in all the cables, we were due to give a gliding demo] and one prior to that date and they were certainly responsible for some ghastly ruts
tho' whether THEY remained in perpetuity is a moot point. I believe there is a photo in the Bucks Herald archives of that one. Yes,I believe the Argosy was flown in, as, of course were the Vulcans and the Comet [were there two Comets??]

[JEM60]

Many years later, I was in the right hand seat of a Partenavia P. 68, when, on take off, we were literally launched by one of these ruts. It was flown by Dickie B..d, and he warned me to be ready for it. It was akin to the Harrier Ski-Jump, I would imagine!!

[UV]

These have appeared on the West Malling old boys site...

YouTube - Gliding at West Malling in the 1970s - Part 1. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0GDNoqGQSA)
YouTube - Gliding at West Malling in the 1970s - Part 1. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0GDNoqGQSA)
YouTube - Gliding at West Malling in the 1970s - part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NdlMDoJVxM)
YouTube - Gliding at West Malling in the 1970s - part 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ySGyRWz_XA)
YouTube - Gliding at West Malling in the 1970s - Part 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntqeeEhQqYg)

UV

[Frelon]

Phew, that was close! I thought the thread title had changed to "Ruts that I knew in my youth!"

Well done UV in getting back to the thread. Pity that the lovely airfield at West Malling is now covered in houses.

[chevvron]

Halton acquired a total of 3 Vulcans (Mk 1) and 2 Comets (Mk2/3?) and one of the latter 'lost' its fin to repair the one at RAE Bedford which was struck by a Trident.
These had all long gone by the '90s when I was flying there with the Ridgerunners(3 axis microlights).

[JEM60]

FRELON.
Very few Gliding pics on this thread, but very interesting to many of us nevertheless. Permit us oldies a litlle thread creep now and again.

[Frelon]

Yes, sorry if it upset you! I too am an oldie but reading about ruts in airfields stretches the imagination too far :bored:

I suppose it was my fault really, mentioning the fact that our double bogie T21 retrieve trolley tended to smooth them out! But, of course those at Halton would have defeated us ;)

[JEM60]

Nice to remember anything about when we were young!!![Not only gliding!!].Bon Soir, mon ami:):)

[WE992]

Some more fine photos via the links below.

www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1229549 (http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1229549)

www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1228298 (http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1228298)

www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1233228 (http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1233228)

[JW411]

At least three Argosys were flown into Halton (XP409, XP442 and XR140). I was scheduled to deliver one of them from Benson on a fine Monday morning. The flight engineer discovered that one of the invertors was u/s (we had no less than five of them underneath the floor).

This was hardly a problem especially since the total flight time was going to be about ten minutes VFR down the Chilterns ridge and the aircraft was never going to fly again.

Would you believe it, they wouldn't let me go for they had an instruction that the aircraft had to be fully serviceable on arrival at Halton!

I was more than a little annoyed at this wonderful piece of bureaucracy.

[T-21]

Halesland,
Fantastic ridge site and many happy memories of flying for Gliding Schools staff.
Had a great week flying there in June 1984 as a helper from 616VGS. Sedberghs WB963,WJ306,WB958 and WB942. Boss was 'Tappo ( met brief from the weather map of the Daily Telegraph). Schools were No.622 Upavon and No. 643 Scampton. Pilots Bamford,Tarrant,Scott,Moss,Bass and Bagshaw. The cows had to be herded off the flying field before flying can remember landing in the cow-pats :uhoh: Best flight was 2hrs 37mins on the ridge one evening in WB942 with another Sedbergh(where is he ? did you see him !! ) :ooh:
We got an Aldis signal from Tappo to land it was getting dark. The others had left for Locking. In the clubhouse was a lovely big hot urn of curry as we were freezing. After a few pints in the pub at the bottom of Halesland we made it to Locking in our yellow perils (Land -Rovers) and nightlife of Weston Super Mare. Happy Days :ok:

[astir 8]

WJ 306 still providing huge amounts of fun at Oxford Gliding Club, Weston in the Green :ok:

Oxford Gliding Club Home (http://www.logico.f9.co.uk/OGC/)


and click on "club fleet" for piccie. Best I've done is 6500 feet. 'kin cold, even in midsummer.

[T-21]

WJ306 was a nice soarer. At Halesland had a 1 hr 05 min thermal flight two climbs to 2,100' and 3,000' .

[Pegpilot]

I was a soloist at Manston in 1977, came back to gliding in 1993 and now fly glass. I remember how they used to close the public road across the airfield before first solo flights, just in case you overshot and embarrassed yourself. Also remember the glider retrieve system they used to keep the launch rate up, whereby the landing glider was probably still moving when a landrover/trailer combo screamed to a halt in front, 4 cadets would leap out of the back, and push the glider and still-strapped-in cadet up the ramp and secure the wingtips to the trailer with cables before driving back to the launch point and dropping the glider off for the next launch. The glider crew didn't have to lift a finger to help. Heady days. Oh, and XN246, as previously mentioned in this thread (Southampton museum) was my solo machine.

Had my first flight in an open cockpit glider in 33 years in Feb this year when I had a brief soaring flight in a T21 at Upwood. Never been so cold in my life.....

(So when are you going to drop in for a cuppa at Lyveden then, T21 ? Or do we have to come down to Odell and frogmarch you up there ?)

[T-21]

Mark (Pegpilot) pm sent.

[XN238]

Looking at your pictures brings back memories of Swanton Morley June 1972.
I had a week there training for the A & B certificate with 611 Glider School flying with Flt. Lt. Easton. A very large grass field as I remember but somebody still managed to over-shoot & ending up amongst the crops. I went solo at the end of the week after 87 mins. dual (25 flights), all in XN238 a T31 Mk3. I believe the forward fuselage still exists in a museum in Doncaster. Great memories, happy days.

[Wander00]

XN238 (and others). I did an A & B course at Swanton Morley in Autumn 1962, between leaving school and going to Sleaford Tech, and having done my PPL on a Flying Scholarship. I was rushed through A&B in a day and then pushed and pulled for the others, but got a dual "hangar" flight every night. I recall we heard of the Cuban missile crisi in a L/R on the airfield and hoped the "War" would not start before we had joined the RAF and were operational. How naiive can you get! 25 years later I used to go back to Swanton Morley to carry out the Command Accounts Inspection. Still brought back happy memories. Now, 49 years later, learning to glide in France. very friendly and great fun. Hopefully "first solo" later this week.

[sycamore]

I did an Air Training Corps Gliding course at RAF Newton in about Feb 1959. The weather was `5 Seasons in a day` so at the end of the week everyone had been brought up to `solo` standard but the Staff decided,and the weather, that no-one would solo,to be fair all-round.
Lost my ATC log-book over the years,so I`ve no idea who the instructors were/a/c tail no. etc.
Nine years later did 2 trips in a `Barge` WB920 at Upavon,a 10 min solo in an Olympia,VV400,then 1hr 20 soaring in the same cab.also flew Sky XA876,but forgot to log the time.. Sum total of my gliding to date..
Anyone around who went/did Newton in those far-off days ?

[Biggles of 266]

Thought I would share a couple of pictures of the progress on the return to flying state of XE799. Cockpit is now pretty complete.

Slingsby Cadet T31 - XE799 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22405356@N05/4918111594/in/photostream/)

Slingsby Cadet T31 - XE799 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22405356@N05/4917513823/in/photostream/)

Not sure if she will fly this year, it all takes so much longer than you expect.

Guy

[PinkHarrier]

Taken 10 August 1946 near Hungerford. Not cadets related but sorta related.

http://www.rcyachts.net/oziom/Leica/OlympiaPrototypefirstflight%2010%20Aug%201946-shrunk.jpg

[Arclite01]

Enjoyed those you tube videos - some faces I recognise there - John Slack, Alan Melmore, Ian Aitken and Phil Wickwar to mention a few !

shame there is no sound !

Arc

[XA290]

Some very interesting pictures of the cockpit of XE799 being restored.

When I saw the picture of the back panel of the front seat I was suddenly reminded of a very early lesson in the principals of flight and aerodynamics which was brought home to me time and again during my proficiency gliding course at Kinloss in 1984.

The lesson in aerodynamics was the wing having higher pressure below it with low pressure above thus producing lift.

While flying in the circuit at 35kts IIRC in the front seat (a veritable gale in an open cockpit like the MK3) my instructor would drop his guts in the rear cockpit and owing the increased pressure below the wing, the resultant guff was forced down into his foot-well and through hole in the back of my seat and then up my nostrils.

I recall it was always particularly pungent and rather unpleasant and the individual, who shall remain nameless, had the reputation of being able to clear an entire hangar with one of his trumps.

[Biggles of 266]

:E Priceless!
And I thought Methane was lighter than air!

I'm glad I didn't know that before I rubbed it down....

Here is a more sensible question. Did any of you (anoraks like me) record the Fuselage numbers against the serials.

Each Glider, had a Military serial, say XE799
A production number, in this case 911(not dispalyed on the glider)
and a fuselage number stencilled on the fuselage side, in this case SSK/FF 1551

We are trying to tie Production numbers against Fuselage numbers, and there are gaps and anomalies. Any that you might have recorded for T31's or T21's would be useful and gratefully received. Both to gap fill and check the extrapolated list.
Thanks
Guy

[norwich]

Non sensible reply :) Would this be of any help ??

This is from the side ....
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii58/keithnewsome/shipdham/12a.jpg

Of this glider ....
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii58/keithnewsome/shipdham/DSC_0009.jpg

Keith.

[Biggles of 266]

Many thanks Keith, that is exactly what I am looking for.
The purpose is to help identify some unknown aircraft and individual components, by having a complete verified list. So far it is being done by extrapolation of numbers between known aircraft, which works very well, but there are some anomalies.
Specifically, I am keen to find Fuselage numbers (SSK/FF numbers) for T31 gliders in the range
XE796 to XE798
XN194 to XN253
Any others to hand that are easy are always good too, to check that the assumptions so far are correct.

This is being done in conjunction with Richard Cawsey, who runs the well known Slingsby production lists website, so hopefully the results can be shared. We haven't started on T21's yet, but any numbers for those would also be appreciated.

Does anybody know what happened to Slingsby's actual production records?
Guy

[WE992]

Guy

I would like to be involved in this to as I am doing similar research!

Rgds

Al

[chevvron]

There was a fire at Kirbymoorside in 1970 or 1971 so it's possible some records were lost then.

[Biggles of 266]

Al
Sent you a pm.
Guy

[Arclite01]

Anyone know how many Prefects the ATC had ?? - did they get sold off as well to the Civilian world and when did they actually go out of service ??

When I joined in 79 the Swallows were around but the Prefects had gone i think...............

cheers

Arc

[Wander00]

Only 'cos I'm chuffed to nuts, I soloed a glider again on Monday night for the first time in 49 years. First time at Swanton Morley, this time at Niort, on a stunning evening when I could see the far end of the Isle d'Oleron from 500m - aah, yes, the complications - heights in metres, speed in km/hr and radio in French! Just by chance my wife was there to see it, and the resultant enormous grin.

[Ellenbown]

Hi,

I went to School with Roddy and heard quite some time ago that he had died. I was asked today by some other school friends what happened and as I have very few details I wondered if any knows?

[WE992]

Archlite

There were 15 Air Cadet Prefects WE979 - 993. There was also WG783 which I beleive never saw service with the ATC but was used by the navy for some carrier wake turbulence trials.

Just a quick line to say that the 621 Historic Flight Swallow is nearing completion in the silver and dayglo scheme. All going well I hope to be able to post a photo here in the next couple of weeks.

[851Pilot]

Great thread all - brough back many happy memories for me (my first time airborne was in 1979 at Sealand).

However - need to pick collective brains...

CO of 1365 (Aylesbury) Sqn ATC has recently passed away and a group of former cadets and staff are clubbing together to get an annual award made for Sqn cadets in his memory.

It's planned to have an engraved image of a 613 VGS glider as that is where he started his adult service with the organisation as a CI - we're trying to confirm whether it would have been a Sedburgh, or Venture? What year did 613 get latter?

Any pointers (or even pictures!) appreciated...

Iain

[T-21]

The last 613 VGS winch launch took place on 31 May1980 and three new Ventures ZA631,632 and 633 were delivered during the following weeks.

[ExAscoteer]

I think 617 GS was based at RAF Hornchurch before moving to Hendon in the early 60's. I did my A&B at Hendon in 1965, followed by being accepted as a staff cadet then got the advanced proficiency and 'C' badge while at Hendon. We moved to RAF Bovingdon in 1967/8 and I became a C/I and 'C' cat. We trialled flying at Manston by holding initially a summer camp during June 1970, then moved the school down to Manston in the winter of 70/71. I moved with them and retired from 617 (and from England) in late 73 as an 'A2' cat. Now live in New Zealand. Interestingly back at Hendon Jack Hammond was our CFI. I first flew with Jack in May 65 when he checked me for first solo, my last flight with Jack was in August 73 when he was a 'C' cat and I was the A2 checking him out. Sort of completed the circle. Gilly.

I've just found this thread.

My late Father was an A2 at 613 GS at Halton from March to late August 1969, when he transferred to 617 GS at Bovingdon. I guess Halton closed? I do remember gliding at Halton with him and also at Haddenham (Thame) (as well as at Bovingdon).

His first flight at Bovingdon was on 30 August 1969 with a Plt Off Wick.

He flew the T53 (XV 951) there on 4 October 1969 with a Staff mate by the name of 'Easton'. I remember him remarking in later years (much as has been said on this Forum) that the T53 was a 'bucket of ****e' and 'bloody dangerous for cadets').

The summer det to Manston was, according to his Log Book, in August 1970. I have records of him flying there from the 16 - 22 August.

His last flight at Bovingdon was on 24 October 1970.

When the school moved my Father decided that Manston was too far a weekend drive from South Buckinghamshire and so left the RAFVR(T). He joined the RAuxAF at Northwood about 18 months later.

In the meantime he'd bought a share in an ASW15 at Bicester in the July of 1970, so continued his gliding there with the RAFGSA.

[BBK]

851 Pilot

I'm pretty certain George did not fly the Venture. It's true the Venture came in 1980 and that would have been after he had left, although he used to pop down to the airfield in his "work" car!

I was saddened to hear the news. Lovely chap and will be much missed. I would be more than happy to contribute, please feel free to PM me.

regards

BBK

[paulkiley093]

I to was at the no 2 Gliding centre Kirton-in Lindsey on the prof course Jan-Feb 1965. instructor was a Peter Bullivant a good Cardiff ambassador, Officer and a, gentleman. Yes , I fell in love with the WRAF's as well and volunteered for glider retrive details many times. Remember the Radar pylon...keep well away from on the solo's

Solo's at 634 St Athan being my home station to finish off to bad weather at Kirton.Became staff cadet then enlisted into the RAF, to return to my local ATC Sqn, and 634VGS.
Mk3
Barge
Prefect
Swallow XS651
...I pranged it at Hailsland, after hitting heavy sink on the downwind leg, followed by a quick recovery action which resulted in a fair rate of knots and a very quick turn to port, and landed in the rough area...uphill..then "CLUNK". It was that or hitting the stone wall which divided the two fields.
Missing it badly:ugh:

:=


PK093

[cg617vgs]

Brilliant thread. I did my Gliding Proficiency in the spring of 1977 before becoming a Staff Cadet on the same school in the Autumn later that year. Was well pleased to see the photos that started this thread and had to dig mine out as well.

Here is the glider I SOLO'ed in - WT904...(and back then it was 3 SOLO's)
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs488.ash2/76144_493445108244_567578244_7063296_1042781_n.jpg
(That's not me by the wing, I'm hiding behind the camera).

Also some aerial photographs.
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs988.snc4/76144_493445093244_567578244_7063293_1066654_n.jpg
The T-21 over the eastern boundary of the Northern Grass area. Aircraft is WB986.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs488.ash2/76144_493445098244_567578244_7063294_3044259_n.jpg
The same aircraft flying west over the Northern Grass area towards the range and the aircraft graveyard (where the RAF fire training took place).

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs488.ash2/76144_493445103244_567578244_7063295_1442102_n.jpg
Finally, a photo of (I believe) our T-21 east of the airfield, if its a Mk3 its a bit far away.

In my time at 617VGS, about 2 years, we had the following aircraft:-
WT904 MK3
XA309 MK3
XN246 MK3
WB986 T-21
WE982 PrefectThe Prefect is a single seater that spends a bit of time at a VGS and moves on. She was at 617 from Oct 78 to Apr 79 (may be longer but I'm using my log book for the dates).

cg

[chevvron]

851/BBK; was George also one of the 'boys in blue' as his civilian job? If so I knew him well both in my role as CO of 1811 (Marlow) Sqdn and as Herts & Bucks Wing Gliding Liaison Officer to 613 (and 612 and for a short period 616 as well!). His being one of the nearer squadrons to 613, if they ever had a shortfall on a course, I would often try to contact George to get it filled, but he was a bit of a 'slippery' customer and difficult to contact in daytime!!(His station sergeant had a good laugh when I said that!)
I think I recall George inherited 1365 under mysterious circumstances, his predecessor departing rather publicly after being 'ordered' to hand in his 1250 but that's another matter.

ExAscoteer: 613 is very much alive and well at Halton. They in fact operated detachments to Bovingdon several times prior to 617 moving there (mostly when Halton was waterlogged in winter) and I was the first cadet to get the ATC Soaring Certificate there, I was a staff cadet on 613 at the time (P2 Grade now known as G1).
Plt Off Wick is possbly Chris Wicks, who late became Wg Cdr and OC Middlesex Wing ATC.

[johnbunting]

For what it's worth, my first ever flight was in the Bristol Gliding Club's T21B, No. BGA616, at Lulsgate, June 1951. Also did my A-certificate hop in their Cadet, BGA445.

[Arkwright]

Pilot Officer Wick indeed became Wing Commander Wick OBE, Officer Commanding Middlesex Wing ATC.

I last saw Chris at RAF Odiham Gliding Club about five years ago, where I believe he was the Chairman.

[WE992]

Chris still flies at Kestrel G C RAF Odiham. I saw him earlier this year.

[Tashengurt]

Those pictures from Manston take me back! I can remember some great days there, looking down on the Vulcan etc in the fire school. Marvellous. Thanks for that!

[Arclite01]

Yeah I did some AEG at Manston (on the Northern Grass).

Great fun - I just remembered the flights seemed so short !!!

Names in my logbooh include Tzeros and Bowyer and certainly XN246 !!

(I've also AEF'd in the Chippies at Manston and shot on the Range !!)

Great times

Arc

[asw28-866]

XN246 does seem to crop up in a lot of the nostalgic discourse regarding the pre-glass days. Obviously it's museum status must help, but it's not the only one hanging in a gallery.

So is XN246 'the' most recognised flying brick or are there others that have acquired the same pervasive character?

'866

P.S. And yes I did go solo in XN246 in 1981! Looks like I last flew it on October 13 1985, so guess it must have been taken off us at 617 around then. Last day of wood at Manston was May 26 1986 where I flew XE808, WT910 and XE868 on the day.

Downwind on the last day of wood looking at the northern grass...

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i155/capthowie_photos/617lastwood0001.jpg

[Frelon]

You can buy your very own ex Air Cadet Swallow on eBay (US) at the moment.

Have a look here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SLINGSBY-T-45-SWALLOW-GLIDER-AIR-PLANE-N7477Z-AIRCRAFT-/290509429732?pt=Motors_Aircraft&hash=item43a3b61be4).

Interesting price - $5,899.99!!

[longer ron]

Last flight 15,000'...why you could probably glide a swallow at least 5 miles from that :).
The ATC wouldnt let me fly the Swallow (only P2/G1 you see :))
But I did eventually fly one out in Zimbabwe 10 years later

[WE992]

C/N 1681. It was never used by the ATC being exported by Slingsby strait to the USA in 1968. The colour scheme is very poorly researched.

[POBJOY]

Interested why you were not allowed to fly the Swallow "Longer ron" even if qualified to fly Cadets on AE.
Was this a "local" rule to make it seem a bit of a "hot ship" as it was hardly a quantum leap from a Prefect.
Be interested in your reply before i relate my experience of the type.

[Arclite01]

I never saw a G1 fly it - it was always 'categorised instructors' only...........

Never understood it myself, flew it many years later as a 'Civvy' and was suprised how easy it was to fly, great fun for aerobatics - Ok for soaring............. absolutely atrocious for anything else - especially X-Country except on a really good day.................

And the elevator stop really did it's job - especially on the wire launch !!

Oh - and that washout at the tips !!! - Arrrrgh

Arc

[Arclite01]

Actually - the club I flew at used it for 'first solo' rather than risk a two seater !!

Virtually indestructable undercarriage (multiple 4 x 2 inside the wheel box)

Arc

[Slow but Steady]

I discovered this amazing thread yesterday and spent most of the day reading it. Today has been spent searching for my 3822 and I have just found it - together with my ATC trombone - but that's a different story!

As a keen member of 101 Kenton Sqn. in the mid '50's, I was informed by C.O., Flt Lt Luty, that I had been selected for glider training subject to medical. This gave me a problem as, unknown to all, I was (and am) blind in one eye. It had never troubled me as I was born that way and could do anything the other kids could do - apart from pass this wretched medical.

With the innocence of youth the solution was simple - I bribed a fellow cadet that desparately needed ten bob to undergo the medical on my behalf. He passed and I presented myself to F.O. Jackson in April 1957 for training.

My instructors were C.I's Spencer, Fox, Deacon and Bradford, together with P.O. Plows, F.O. Bowles and F.O. Jackson. I see most of my training was done in Mk3 WT909 and Sedbergs WB941 and WB945. I soloed three months later in Mk3's WT909 and XA 305.

I loved the ATC but eventually left as a cadet W.O. to go to university and spend the rest of my working life in the aerospace sector. I flew hang-gliders for most of the '70's and '80's but have now taken to the more sedate business of sailing!

One other point that may be of interest. Two of the officers at 101 Sqn later became gliding instructors - P.O. Geoff Foster and F.O. Ken Bayliss. Does anyone remember them?

Thanks for the memories,

Pete

[JEM60]

SLOW but STEADY. I was a Staff Cadet on 613 at Halton, under 'Jacko' Jackson, Phil Plows, and Bertie Bowles. In fact, it was Bertie Bowles who made me a staff cadet after I asked if I could stay on, having finished my course. I was in 1365 [Aylesbury] Sqdn.
I remember Ken Bayliss well. He was a VRT Officer, and instructor, and I flew at Halton with him on a number of occasions. Nice man. I learnt to glide there with Bernard Newman as my instructor. I last saw Ken at the funeral of Tony Wicks [my old ATC C.O.,] about 15 years ago. Tony lived in the same road as me in Aylesbury, and was well known. Sadly, I understand from a flying friend that Ken is now at the big airfield in the sky. I don't know when he died, or the circumstances, I'm afraid. Cheers. John. PS I remember Tony Deacon as well, but I don't think I flew with him. What wonderful days were to be had there. Happy memories!!. It is highly possible that we met at the time you were learning. I was Corporal Maxwell, who did a lot of winch driving, truck driving, and organising order of flying etc.,

[longer ron]

Pobjoy
Interested why you were not allowed to fly the Swallow "Longer ron" even if qualified to fly Cadets on AE.
Was this a "local" rule to make it seem a bit of a "hot ship" as it was hardly a quantum leap from a Prefect.
Be interested in your reply before i relate my experience of the type.

I was talking about 1971/72,at that time one had to be a 'C' cat or above to fly the swallow...but that rule may well have been relaxed at a later stage.
Us lowly P2's had to be content with the prefects which always seemed to arrive in the winter LOL.
I assume it was a perk for the instructors !fair enough I say !

edit tbh not sure if that was a local restriction or not !

[longer ron]

Slow but steady
Yes I remember Ken Bayliss and Jacko very well,Halton was a great place to fly.
I spent all my spare time with 613 whilst a very naive apprentice (70-72),Ken I remember as very Laconic,by then of course he was a very senior instructor.

[longer ron]

Arc
Same with the club I flew with in zimbabwe,the 2 blaniks were irreplaceable,but we were allowed 1 solo in the blanket and then to the swallow,as you say - a doddle to fly.
My first swallow ride there - we were flying from the 'wrong' end which meant if one got a low cable break then you were going to end up in really rough remains of local WW2 rwy surface...so I self briefed myself to turn left 20 deg onto the smooth grass of the lazy rwy.
200'...twang (bloody fence wire cable)...the club instructors had kittens when I put the left wing down but soon twigged what I was up to LOL.

[POBJOY]

As i recall, the Prefect was available (when it came around) for any staff to fly and was also used by "Cadets" at Halesland.
There were only a few Swallows so they were at the centre's most of the time.
As a P2 staff cadet i was able to use my civil service "special leave" for ATC courses and would go up to Swanton for the odd week to help (which usually meant loads of solo launches or flying px on "sports days").
On one such visit (after the course had all done their 3 solo's) the Swallow was dragged out and i was told to fly it.Ian Ladbury's briefing consisted of a request for me to do one "normal" flight before spinning it and then it was mine until we packed up at lunch time (Friday).
A happy bunny then went back to 615 at Kenley.
Fast forward to a few weeks later and the Swallow arrives at Kenley and is dragged out on Sat morn with everything else.The i/c the line announces that this machine is for "instructors only" so why is out on the field anyway,"it also transpires that none of those present have flown it yet".
What about those who have flown it before i innocently inquire!! and produce my log book (signed by the God of ATC Gliding) showing multiple launches on type.
Game Set and Match to the Staff Cadets; it is flown (by me) and another myth disposed of.

[longer ron]

Good for you PP...always nice to buck the system :ok:
Any trips planned to ravensbourne ??

cheers LR

[POBJOY]

Hi LR yes i will go along to Calmont Rd when in the area (to get an image).I was always interested in "why" the incident happened and this was a year before joining the ATC.
About two years ago i heard a snippet about it being the fuel system and then found out who the driver was.(not easy at the time).
However this also exposed his fantastic record and i decided to leave it at that rather than do any public probing.
I think anyone who was lucky enough to be a ATC staff Cadet in the 60/70's was very fortunate.
I know we only had denims and wellies (and no badges thank god) to start with but the freedom of driving around in the rovers and austin before one could drive on the road was great.
In fact it was the whole "operating the equipment" thing as a 16 year old that made it so much fun.
I used to joke that as we only flew on the last bit of the day/eve (twinkling cables over tarmac syndrome) if we ever had to fly during normal daylight we would have to be "converted " for daylight ops and have to wear special dark glasses.
Having managed to B T S with the Swallow i then did the same thing with the T53 and wished they had replaced (or complimented) the T21.
If ever a fleet of machines provided so much flying for the outlay the fretwork fighters were a complete bargain never repeated in MOD history.
In fact it was an "All British" system:- Slingsbys,Rover,Austin,MB Wild (winch) and even the cable came from the UK.(plus the NAAFI pies).
Contrary to popular myths the MK8 goggles were really for the winch drivers as the normal drum covers were canvas over a wire grid (not at Kenley of course we had dural ones) and are not needed for flying Mk3's and T21's (apart from having your photo taken).
I think it was the desire to escape from the circuit that eventually lured me away (plus the hooligans at Redhill) but i will always credit the Air Cadets as being the best start anyone could ever have in any sort of aviation interest and long may they continue.(even with the badges).
Mind you we were always very H&S conscious and "blinked" just before the axe chopped through the cable on DI's (no nanny state then "or gloves and glasses").

[GSX1250FA]

What a fascinating thread! I came a-googling to find something on TX3 XA310, wishing to make a model of it, and spent the last couple of hours reading the posts. Fascinating! I did my A+B in XA310 at Locking with 621 in 1975, Easter I think, when it snowed so hard my mother said my train disappearing down the platform at Bristol Parkway, looked like a scene from Dr Zhivago! I didn't think we would fly, but we did, and I passed with my three solos a couple of days later. My Instructor, I think, was called Jackson; I must dig out my log! I discovered XA310 was still in existance when I did another AEx flight at Keevil a few years ago, and dropped Mr Stacey an e-mail at that time. I'd love to see it again sometime, but like some others here, all the aircraft I flew those many years ago seem to have shrunk with the passing years....

Anyway, thanks for the memories; the cold, the ruts across the field, the swans joining us in the circuit, pulling the stick for all I was worth on my last solo, the heart-stopping BANG of a cable break, the wall of hail chasing us on one downwind leg and the din of it falling on the wing after we landed.

I must pop up to Hullavington some time, it is only a couple of junctions up the M4 after all!

Best wishes for the season,

Tim Perry

PS Instructor was GW Beard, not Jackson. Memory hangs on to some things forever, other things can get a bit misty!!

[Slow but Steady]

Jem 60 and Longer Ron,
Many thanks for your prompt response. I'm sorry I have not been so prompt.
The memories come flooding back. I can't remember what I had for breakfast but I can remember ever moment of that first solo like it were yestereday. I was there in 1957 but I really can't remember the name of the staff cadet. If it were you, Cpl Maxwell, I'm really sorry.

I'm also sorry to hear that F.O. Baylis has gone to the big gliding club in the sky where the green bubble is always high. He was the Adjutant at 101 Sqn and I knew him well - he was also my namesake but no relation.

I remember getting the train from Harrow-on-the-Hill to Wendover early on a Sunday morning to be met by an ancient taxi driver in a huge pre war austin taxi. I think he charged a bob a head to take whoever was on the train to Halton Camp. He told me he had been taxing young gentleman since the camp was opened. Lack of cash forced us to walk back in the evening, past the Toch H Club, and wearily into Wendover station.

I can't remember much about the other cadets on the course - there was Smudge Smith from my Sqn and a rough sort of kid who rode there on an ancient and clapped out motorcycle - I think complete with sidecar.

The last I saw of the Sedbergs was in about 1958/59 when they were aero-towed to the Hendon Show. I was selling programmes and was most proud to seek out Jacko after he had landed and throw one up for him.

I see this thread is related to ATC wood gliding pics. I'm afraid my paper round money at the time didn't stretch to a camera so I can't contribute. However, in the envelope with my 3822 was a bunch of annual camp squadron pics taken in front of various RAF aircraft of the '50's. I could try to attach one of these if it's allowed?

I hope you chaps remember some of these ramblings?

Best regards,

Pete

[chevvron]

I remember a gusty saturday morning at Halton, with part of the airfield occupied by a Scout Jamboree. We pulled the aircraft out to the launch point, and KGB (Ken Bayliss) told me to get in a Sedbergh. As I was a P1, thought I was going to get a 'solo' first thing rather than being relegated to winch driving, but Ken got in with me. After the 5th trip with Ken in a strong gusty wind, he got out and told me to stay in. He came back a few minutes later accompanied by a small air experience cadet and carrying a Mk3 solo weight and told me 'you've done some nice safe flying in these conditions so this is your first Air Experience Cadet'. The solo weight was duly inserted in the gap behind the passenger seat and away we went. (We needed ballast because I was only 144lb at the time and the cadet must have been less than 100)
Suddenly (and most unexpected) I was a P2!!

[POBJOY]

Hi Chev i am not sure if all the T21's eventually had the nose job but we certainly had one that was "clean".
However our enterprising CO "obtained" a slab of lead about 3/4 inch thick that was shaped and bolted on to fit a T21 spare seat top.
Methinks it was never an "approved" mod but of course it worked just fine for ever more.
Like the P2 check out (thats the way it was always done) no fuss just good common sense.

[2 sheds]

Further to page 16, #308, my photo of the Prefect at Halesland...
http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=prefect&w=21736736%40N08
with pilot Pat Hudson. Pat saw it, and we just met again (he and his wife on a visit to UK from Oz ) after a mere 45 years. :ok:

2 s

[Arclite01]

Pobjoy - pretty sure all the Barges did get the mod for the Bomb fitting eventually.

Whether there were ever enough bombs to go around - not so sure !!

cheers

Arc

[Matt Skrossa]

Tonight (29 Dec) sees the annual reunion of 'old gits' from 618 VGS mainly from the West Malling era at a secret location in London Even after 30 years we still have a common bond and despite greying hair and expanding waist lines we are even better than we were 'back in the day'.

[Frelon]

But are you members of FOGIES (Former Old Gliding Instructors' Extension Society)??

Bet it is a squeeze to try to get into the front seat of a MkIII after all these years!

Enjoy your evening and your memories.

[POBJOY]

Not that old if from a VGS !!!

[Amos Keeto]

Just been looking through this thread from the start and am absolutely staggered to see photos of Sedberghs (WB943 and '959) and Kirby Cadet Mk.s (XN241) at Manston in 1986, as I flew in these very same machines as an ATC cadet when they were with 625 Gliding School at South Cerney, Glos....but 20 years earlier during 1964-66. I felt sure they would have been scrapped, crashed or written-off by now? In those days they were painted silver with dayglo panels. Does anyone have any photos of these in this scheme?

[Arkwright]

GLIDE FIRST JETS LATER - British Pathe (http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=41641)

Photos: Slingsby T-21B Sedbergh Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Slingsby-T-21B-Sedbergh/1143653/L/&sid=94d1b5f9d7f5baec0fa8c760f8484c29)

[WE992]

Nice to see aphoto of my T.21 in the previous post.

Seethe link below to a photo of the latest aircraft for the 621 VGS historic flt:

www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1269437 (http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1269437)

[chevvron]

Coloured discs behind the cap badges indicate the students are brats rather than cadets.
RAF Halton Glider Flight was established to give AEG to the brats, and often pooled aircraft and equipment with 613 GS

[WE990]

Arclite

My Dad bought WE990 from the RAF in 1979. He first flew it when he was 16 at Swanton Morley with 611 VGS. He flew it for about 3 years until the soaring group at Swanton disbanded.

27 years later, we got it out of the trailer and amazingly it only required new fabric!!

That took us a year to do and we had its first flight in 28 years on July 11th 2010!


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4100/4859848847_b402c142a6_z.jpg

this is me landing during the Vintage Glider rally at Norfolk gliding club in august.

[WE990]

Is this a modern record?

At the VGC rally this year there were 8 T21's and 5 of which were in the red and white Air Cadet markings. On one particular day, all 5 ended up in a launch queue together and several photos were taken by several people.

Can anyone beat this?????

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs214.snc4/39051_451385923637_661458637_6146377_7922611_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs234.snc4/39051_451385928637_661458637_6146378_815383_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs214.snc4/39051_451385933637_661458637_6146379_4816816_n.jpg

[chevvron]

But they're all painted in the 'modern' colour scheme; take a look at WE990 for the REAL colour scheme!!

[WE990]

Yep, shame! The prefect was never changed across to the red and white scheme.

Great sight though!!

Matt

[POBJOY]

SILVER with dayglo (or yellow) absolutely timeless and looks the part.

Interesting that no one is on "wing tip" duty with the barges, people were executed on the spot if that happened in ATC use.

[clivewatson]

Just spent an enjoyable morning re reading this thread that I had forgotten all about. Was especially pleased to see the film of the T53 shot at Kenley featuring my father Alex.

Happy New Year to Frelon, Pobjoy, Keith and any others who I may have bumped into in my past Gliding School days.

[Frelon]

Ah yes POBJOY, I remember it well. But much more practical to be seen to be doing something or you would be sent to be mid field signaller (with the dayglo bats) and then left there all forgotten when everybody else had gone to lunch!

Note: Kenley has a bump in the middle so in the early days (before flashing lights) we had to do the signalling by hand and the winch driver could not see the launch point - hence the need for mid field signallers.

[POBJOY]

Unfortunately Frelon (look for PM) the "facilities" for the mid field signaller (Pill Boxes) have long gone but still feature in the ATB (Battle of Britain then and now) Book(Kenley Pages).
During this "purge" of historic features the central section of several of the E Pens also went.
The most famous pen of them all (near the junction of both Hayes Lanes) (Wattendon end) (Spitfire image from low flying Dornier) only has one side and its back, left standing.
I suppose we are lucky that this most famous (and complete) 11 group sector airfield is still intact (not the camp).
What a fabulous historic site and quite small considering its importance.

[Frelon]

A little attempt to direct this thread back in line, here is a picture of my instructor, Flt Lt Geoff Naylor, briefing a cadet at RAF Hawkinge in the late 50's.

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x165/Biggles615/GeoffNayloratHawkinge.jpg

What a hero, flew 16 flights with him over two days before he handed me over to Ian Ladley for 4 pre solo checks in 1959 (blimey that dates me). Then three solo circuits, third one I was asked to land near the hangars if it was not too much trouble!!

Never got near to a glider cockpit for the rest of the week, whilst the instructors concentrated on getting the rest of the course solo.

However, because I had completed my task I was asked on the Thursday of my week's course if I could help the mobile servicing team to take a T21 in a trailer to Lympne airport to load it into a Canadian DC3 to take back to Canada for evaluation by their Air Cadets. We managed (using the side loading doors) to get the fuselage in with one wing but could not get the other wing in. So we unloaded the whole lot. Next attempt we managed to get both wings in but fuselage was hanging out a bit (in fact a lot)! So we unloaded again and tried the fuselage first again. This time we got one wing in and the tailplane, but that was all. A decision was made that they had to go without the other wing!!

I did not hear the outcome - I am assuming that the DC3 made another trip to pick up the remaining wing.

Anyway it got me out of doing those glider retrieves for a day, especially after low launch failure procedures!!

And...get a look at the all weather instructor flying clothing in those days. A long flying jacket over a "Hairy Mary", and turned down Welly boots!!

[POBJOY]

GN was a big loss to the "system" and i was lucky enough to have him (with DK) at Swanton in 63.
After solo they found i was "two launches short" so i had a couple of end of the day flights with DK.
This consisted of a climbing 110 degreebank turn after release followed by a vne attack on the big hangar and another pull up / 180 turn and land by the doors.
So its all "Soapys" fault after all !!
For the record my first flight with "Frelon" was spin recovery in WB961 1964.

[Frelon]

Ah, remember it well Sgt Pobjoy. 'Twas 18th May, and spin recovery exercises were not easy in a barge with our old underpowered winches, from a small airfield like Kenley. What a memory!

Thank goodness I kept my log books all these years!

Nostalgia is not what it used to be!

[longer ron]

Lovely pic Frelon...
I wish I had some photos of gliders at either Spitalgate or Halton but dont have any and have never managed to track down any...
I found this during a cupboard sort out,must have fallen out of my old log book,cannot find the later G1 slip though LOL



http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv316/volvosmoker/txt067.jpg


This Badge is the only other momento I have of ATC gliding

613 GS Halton



http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv316/volvosmoker/613GS068.jpg

[POBJOY]

Does this mean 613 were the start of the "Badge Brigade".
Interesting that Swanton is described as a detachment in 1972, not No I Gliding Centre anymore.

[Kieron Kirk]

"Interesting that Swanton is described as a detachment in 1972, not No I Gliding Centre anymore"

Disbanded into Central Gliding School as a detachment on 9th August 1971.
From Ray Sturtivant's epic "RAF Flying Training and Support units since 1912."

Ciarain.

[Burtonwood Aviator]

I always wondered what Geoff Naylor looked like? All I remember him for was the Cartoons he made in Gliding Lines which was produced By HQAC and Printed by the Photographics & Reproductions Branch, Air Ministry. London. I also noted the wellie boots and cold weather Jacket with Bum warmer issued to us circa 1962

[BBK]

longer ron

The photo of the old 613 badge took me back. Last time I saw one it was worn by Halton stalwart "Uncle" Ken Baylis. A real gentlemen aviator and sadly no longer with us.

[WE990]

Frelon

How wonderful to hear of someone being sent solo by my Grandfather Ian Ladley! Unfortunately I never got to fly with him, but several people I've met in my (short) gliding history have said what a wonderful person he was to fly with.

I have recently become a member of staff at 611 VGS at RAF Watton. Unfortunately, we will have to move from this wonderful airfield very soon which is a great shame. As is typical with airfields built right next to a town it is destined for housing!!

I would be very interested in any tales/anecdotes you may have about my Grandad?

All the best
Matt

[D120A]

WE990, please look at your PMs.

[VX275]

WE990 do you have your Grandfather's Course photo from Operation Blue Goshawk (RAF Benson July 1980)? If not I have, as I was one of the 612VGS staff on the course when I was the winch driver for everyone else except you Grandfather, his cadet and their dedicated Sedburgh.

[POBJOY]

Whats with this move 990 i thought 611 were in "fairly new" (purpose built) accomodation at Watton.Might as well have stayed at Swanton there seems to be lots of grass there not doing anything and the Army quite like gliding i think.

[Arclite01]

yes - barking mad moving 611 - any ideas where too at the moment ??

Arc

[Yaw String]

Some names from my 1972-75 Logbook with 616 GS, RAF Henlow.

Pete Foreman..a perfect circuit..yes..mostly flown by him..(nice chap)
Rex Harding..always smiling,the jolly farmer from Blunham
Doug Caswell, Dave Walker, Henderson, Holdsworth, Ray Smith..good friend from Campton, Cooper, George Huntley..Luxury Travel!, Alan Babbage..my aeromodelling mentor at 2462 Henlow ATC., Dave Bourne..fix your car in a jiffy! Mackintosh, Ian,Hatton, Murray, Bishop, Stan Higgins, Clayton, C.Evans, Roger Morrisroe..Good guy, Chris Hook, Hopkin, Roger Wyse, Michael Muir.....Kingsley Michael Studios!

Remember diving approaches on east run to scare the fishermen(A Chris Hook/Dave Bourne speciality).....Flour bombing the winch...Summer course madness..Great omelettes from the sergeants mess..Stuffy visits from CGS..Taking off solo in T21 with pax belt undone and seatback flying forward and impeding control column on winch launch(after summer party and bugger all sleep!)...loosening straps of CCF cadet so he could chunder over Henlow village..then forgetting to re-tighten them on west run approach and his face, as his bottom left the seat during some turbulence!!! Learning to reverse the 5 tonne winches into the hanger...putting the yellow landrovers into first gear, leaving them to set off by themselves, then trying to catch them before they reached the edge of the airfield!!!
Sharing a thermal, in two Mark 111s, with my dear friend Chris Lackman,(great guy and unfortunately no longer with us) and hurling verbal abuse at him as he appeared to be pushing me out of the core!!
That scorching summer of 76 as a winch driver, and the grass fires caused when the winch cable used to snag on the summerfeld tracking!(worse for the pilot when top of launch occurred at 200'!!!
Loosing god knows how many beanie hats over Henlow,Shefford, Stondon, Clifton etc!...
The sheer stupidity of not being able to get top brass permission for my good friend Stuart Goldspink to land on MOD property and then, watching the London Gliding Club boys drag the "hotship" off the enormous airfield, onto a small farmers paddock for a Chipmunk aerotow retrieve back to Dunstable!

I eventually grew up and am now quite responsible and operating triples from a jungle strip somewhere in Borneo.. Still having fun though!

Have recently bumped into many colleagues and friends from my LGC days, through our recent company retraining program. Sadly, no contact with any ex 616 fellows!

Happy New Year to all, from those great years of the mid seventies. The ATC certainly kept so many of us out of trouble!

M.G.

[WE990]

VX275

No, I don't have the photo. a copy would be wonderful! Do you have a digital copy you can email or is it a hard copy?

Thanks

[WE990]

611 has been at Watton in a purpose built compound for approx 15 years. I believe the current idea is that we will be moved to RAF Honington. Don't know when but we think it will be sometime in the next year. Swanton Morley is out as they have a Polo Pitch and many trees (albeit dead trees) in random places across the airfield. Great shame!!

Nothing is set in stone, as far as I'm aware, but it's looking like we'll be off to Honington.

[VX275]

WE990 a PM has been launched in your direction

[Arclite01]

WE990

611 VGS going to stay conventional gliders or change to Motorgliders at Honington ??

[WE990]

I think we will be staying conventional as there are no spare Vigilants to go around. The only way we'd change is if another school swapped aircraft.

But........ as I said before, it's all up in the air (excuse the pun) at this stage so who knows!! Lets hope we stay on Vikings as we'd have to cut staff numbers quite a lot!!

WE990

[johnjosh43]

Well that question got a good response :-(

I spent a few years there as a staff cadet around about 1970 ish. I've enjoyed reading this thread and will see if I can find my logbook.

[T-21]

Looking for any info/photos on Cadet Mk.3 (T-31) XE803 . I have a friend who went solo in this aircraft at Swanton Morley in 1958. It was written off at Kirton-In-Lindsey 17.7.61.

[WE990]

T-21

Have you tried contacting Richard Cawsey?

Incidentally, I have flown XE802 recently. I think there are some photo's of it on this thread somewhere.

[CH2]

Just in case anyone wants to catch up with some of their old mounts, please take note and spread the word. Everyone welcome.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b217/CH2/Ventureflyin.jpg

[Frelon]

Just got the scanner out so thought I would see if I could remember how to post some old pictures here on Pprune.

So here goes...

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/754x433/kenley_on_the_circuit_86dc31226fe617abf67bb454b50de3153a3cb9 37.png

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1216x811/another_circuit_d2e9468e59e16c4a9f9c2d3469a2e0bceadb7f15.jpg


Both taken at 615 Gliding School, RAF Kenley, on what we called the "straight up and down run", alongside the main runway. Married quarters and (now non-existent) hangar in the background.

Takes you back, doesn't it?

[POBJOY]

875 looking very battered Mick,is that where you shot it with your bow and arrow like the Austin radiator !!!
At least you did not burn the hangar down in your time and the MQ have now gone (replaced by new private houses).
Top picture shows the famous original wartime (looks like a bungalow) "ops room" (now gone) to the left of the (listed) Officers Mess which itself is now down for conversion to flats.
BC looking very casual (no f/suit, badges and plastic goggles) and the "dayglow" plastic red panels have replaced the original "training command" yellow dope.
Poor old 875 went up with the hangar 23 10 1978 a sad end after all those thousands of safe flights.
RAF Kenley, still the most complete of the surviving 11 group Battle of Britain airfields and historic battleground.
615 GS took over the number of the old prewar 615 "County of Surrey" Squadron now 615 VGS.

[TEEEJ]

Some footage of T.21 WG496 from 1964 at 03:30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdMQCVbVOxE

Malformed video link corrected.

TJ

[Dan Winterland]

Ha ha. love the instructor wearing his SD cap!

[POBJOY]

Not much of a "hold off" though,more of a ME163 landing simulator !!!

[Biggles of 266]

Frelon,
Thanks for posting, great pictures. The first ones I have seen of WT875.

Oh that they were 873....Oh well.

It is great that you took the trouble to post.
Guy

[Arclite01]

Is Biggles of 266 one of the Twister pilots ??

[Shytehawk]

Having just found this thread, I have spent almost the whole day going through the pages but can find no reference to White Waltham. I was a cadet there in the early 60s. The start of a 40+ years flying careeer.

[Viscount812]

I have also just found this thread.In case anyone's trying to fill any gaps in the '60s I have a record of having flown in T21 WB972 at Debden in February 1966, and T30 XE795 and T21 WG499 at RAF North Weald in July 1966. Thanks to links in this thread I am delighted to discover that WG499 is still providing sterling service with Crusaders GC in Cyprus as R92 - quite remarkable.

My instructor with the CCF at the time was memorable in that he only had one leg, but that was not an impediment in any way. I recall he held the rank of Squadron Leader and the name of Tydeman - or something very similar - rings a bell. Does anyone recall this character?

[621andy]

Just been browsing this thread again and realised all my pics have vanished:O

Anyway, here for your delectation and delight a mixed bag of 80s 621 stuff and some from more recent times;

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/App0016Kopie.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/App0017Kopie.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/App0019Kopie.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/File0010.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/WT877.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/WB991.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/App0004.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/App0007.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/File0011.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/File00062.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/File0007Kopie.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/XA308.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/XA3081.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/XE791.jpg

[621andy]

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/XA310.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/File0195Kopie.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/File0196Kopie.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/621_VGS_1984.jpg

[621andy]

Now a few from the 621 Historic Flight(or whatever they're called this week;))

First, the Barge, WB922. Both Prince Andrew, and more importantly me did our first solos in this a/c:ok:

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/IMG_64072.jpg

Me having a check ride with Adam;
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/IMG_64382.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/b2.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/b10.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/b11.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/b13.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/b14.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/IMG_6473.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/IMG_6497.jpg

[621andy]

Now some of XA310, which is actually the property of WE992, but he lets us use it:ok: I flew 310 during its time with 621, but not in these colours. I think the change in scheme has shrunk the fabric, as there's now no way I can fit in her:O

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/t5.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/t8.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/t14.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/t10.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/t1.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/t11.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/t3.jpg

And finally, one of the Wilde winch;
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/hull1.jpg

[621andy]

To finish off, a few shots of WE992s Prefect, which he also lets us fly:D

Looking pensive, prior to my first solo in a Prefect!

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/IMG_65132.jpg
Seeing if the lid would fit...it didn't!
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/IMG_65032.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/IMG_6523.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/IMG_64112.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/IMG_6537.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/IMG_63832.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/IMG_63882.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/IMG_65332.jpg


http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/UK%20flying/IMG_6531.jpg

[621andy]

I've got some pics of the Cyprus barge somewhere too, I'll try and dig them out.

I'll also try and get some of Als' Swallow when I'm next over;)

[621andy]

Just found a few more old 621 shots...

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/Winches.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/winch2.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/WB9911-1.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/File1045.jpg

Another sunny day at Weston on the Mud...

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/File0035.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/File0015.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/App0012.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/991b.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/991.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/791.jpg

[621andy]

And now a few more recent ones...

962 at Mendips' 40th birthday celebrations at Halesland;

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/962.jpg

922 at Hullavington;

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/922b.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/922.jpg

[WE992]

Great Photos.

621 VGS Historic Flt have a 4 page colour spread in the May 2011 edition of Pilot Magazine.

[asw28-866]

Andy,

Thank you for posting those wonderful pictures, looks like you lot had as much fun as we did at 617!

'866

[621andy]

866-We had one of your ex winches at some point...engraved on the back wall was; 617- Winch Busters:p

But oh yes, we certainly had fun:E:ok:

Yes, I know about the Pilot article, but I have to wait 7 months to see it when I'm back in civilisation...difficult to get a copy of Pilot here in Turkey:*

[VX275]

I've heard a rumour that the historic flight are going to be the centrepiece of the RAF contribution to RIAT this year:\

[astir 8]

Oxford Gliding Club took their Sedbergh WJ306 to RIAT as a static exhibit last year - it brought back a lot of memories to a lot of guys!

But what RIAT really needs is a flying exhibit - auto tow a barge and a brick the length of the runway at the very least.:ok:

[WE992]

VX275

I can not say too much but there is a plan to fly my Barge at RIAT this year.

[7of9]

WE992, Need a passenger??:ok::}
Alan (Civ) says hi, he's passing through on his way to Portmoak.

Trev

[astir 8]

Good on yer 992 - but how about a Mk III and Grasshopper too!

[WE990]

What a brilliant article!! Makes me want to get a winch and do the same at 611!! we have access to all the aircraft including a (non MOD) swallow!

Anyone know of a cheap little winch going anywhere...........

[JEM60]

That article took me straight back to when I was 15.! Flew everything in the article but the Grasshopper, as I'm sure did most of us. Good old days at 613.

[WE992]

Astir 8

Like I said in an earlier post I can not give too much away yet but there may well be what you are asking for!

[stumpey]

Your not the only one not giving much away. Neither is the official web site as to what stuff is appearing. All coming out in dribs and drabs, but they wont take a booking fee for admittance tickets like that! Oh no got to pay all up front and find out whats coming in a few months.

Still, their right. We'll pay, and go.

[WE990]

992

I know you can't say much but have they asked to use your Prefect too?

[WE992]

Yes and there plans to display it at another well known venue in Bedfordshire later in the year. Do you fancy displaying yours at RIAT?

[peteFI]

Just a punt to seen who's left -- I'm an old wrekinovian -- I still get a grab at reunions -- Bicester Myndd Talgarth and all that--- hope I not starting with a thread wander.

[WE992]

Also ex Wrekin!

[peteFI]

Me --- 1969 to 75 -- magnificent times

[davecirrus]

Hi Pete and 992, not that many of us still around.
Started at 633 in 1961 and am now with the Wrekin after some time with Ulster GC

[Alan Biles]

Had a bit of a landslide in the attic this afternoon and this fell out...

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/AlanBiles_51/Kenleygliding001.jpg

[POBJOY]

Poor old 301 bit the dust 1974 (seen here on one of George Nunns Duralamin) (Woolwich Arsenal) trailers with a real Rover that had easy remove doors and fold down windscreen.Who took the photo AB !!!

[Alan Biles]

I did, with my trusty Brownie 127. The remaining pics of the time are so faded they just won't scan - except this one.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/AlanBiles_51/Kenley67.jpg

AB

[POBJOY]

Well done Alan,captures how simple the operation was and the atmosphere of the time.The "caravan" (tea room) used to get well crammed with bodies in the cold weather and eventually had a wind driven generator fitted to the top to charge the batteries for the aldis lights used to signal the winches.Alas all consumed (with aircraft) in the Hangar fire 1978.That part of the airfield is still the same except that the "e-pen" has lost its central bank and is open to the public who have access around the airfield on the "outside part" of the peri-track.

[Frelon]

Ah POBJOY, I remember it well!! Especially the wind driven generator.

The only problem with it was that it would only give us a positive charge on the batteries when the wind exceeded 20 knots!! And the chain drive made such a noise at that speed that we could not hear ourselves speak inside the caravan!!

Ahhhh gliding in the '60s!!!

[POBJOY]

This was indeed a multi multi (dural blade) construction but needed more revs as it ran a generator rather than an alternator.
I seem to recall that when it actually gave a charge the flying had to stop as it was too windy !!!
Yes it gave off a very loud "clatter" with its chain drive, but was an attempt to keep the batteries charged up due to the power consumption of the mechanical system of cams and switches that gave either "take up slack" long dashes or "all out" short pulse's.
I seem to recall that someone eventually came along with a "solid state" box that did the same thing and did not dim the lights at the same time.

[Frelon]

Yes, you are right POBJOY. George Nunn was an engineer and did not trust transistors and thermistors and stuff like that, so his mechanical system used windscreen wiper motors to drive a wheel with raised cams which operated microswitches, hence the need to have fully charged batteries. The control lever for his system was a joy to behold!!

When I introduced my little grey box he would only allow me to install it in parallel to his system and run it for a month's trial.......

He reluctantly agreed that transistors were the way forward........and a year later we were supplied with an "official" system from CGS, as they too had been experimenting along these lines.

Note to myself....must post another picture of gliding as we knew it!!

[industry insider]

Great thread guys.

It brought back memories of when I got my A&B certificate with 618GS at West Malling during the summer of '78. I still remember my 3 solo circuits. That was the beginning of my career in Aviation which has been very kind and put food on the table for the last 30 years.

Thanks for all the photos, they are nostalgic viewing!

[WE992]

The secret is now out. The RIAT 2011 website aircraft list now lists, T.21, T.31, Swallow and primary glider

[dakkg651]

Why no Prefect Al?

Love to see 992 again.

[WE992]

Rob. I have no idea. Despite the fact that I own the 3 gliders above nobody is telling me anything neither have I been invited. I am less than impressed that the fake Swallow is being used but not the Prefect!

[dakkg651]

Situation normal as the yanks say. :ugh:

[Frelon]

Here is one from my album. Just off to get my BGA C Certificate at Kenley!!

https://imgur.com/Dx4jAeR

That smile stayed for some time. I remember it well.

[POBJOY]

Great image of an original Kenley "E-Pen" complete with optional machine gun post (under tail skid) I thought the Prefect had a removable nose cone (held on by bungee cord !!!) was it a mod from its German origins.
Single seater are always more fun.

[chevvron]

Substitute '990 or '993 for the '992 and that could be me.
At 613, myself and 'Nick' Nicholls were briefed/checked out by Sqdn Ldr 'Toppy' Topsfield at the same time and took turns for our requisite circuits. We were both used to gliders with spoilers, and I remember Toppy emphasising that unlike spoilers, you must achieve final approach speed before opening the airbrakes.
My father came to give me a lift home, and I told him I'd flown a 'single seater' that day. 'What, on your own?' he said!!

[Frelon]

Yes, POBJOY, I had forgotten that! I remember doing DI's on the Prefects when they first did the rounds, and yes you could lift off the bungy held nose cone to peer behind the rudder pedals!

When they later covered everything in dayglo they covered over the nose cone joints!!

[WE992]

621 VGS Historic Flight did the unthinkable this weekend displaying the Cadet Mk3, Sedburgh, Prefect and Swallow on two Dual aerotows at RIAT. After working up on Wednesday and Thursday at Hullavington the flypast was flown at Fairford on Friday's VIP day and the second public day on Sunday in very demanding conditions. The aerotows lasted for well over an hour. There were 6 very tired pilots who were buzzing with excitement. If anybody has any photos to post it would be great to see them.

[Amos Keeto]

Yes I was there and thought it was amazing that this cavalcade turned up in the blustery conditions. Congratulations to everyone involved.

Here are some of my pics :

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n184/Amoskeeto/SuperCubtowingPrefectCadetFairford17JUL2011AMB94.jpg

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n184/Amoskeeto/Fairford17JUL2011AMB92.jpg

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n184/Amoskeeto/WB981SedberghXS651SwallowFairford17JUL2011AMB95.jpg

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n184/Amoskeeto/WB981SlingsbyT21SedberghTXFairford17JUL2011AMB96.jpg

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n184/Amoskeeto/WE992SlingsbyT33PrefectTX1Fairford17JUL2011AMB98.jpg

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n184/Amoskeeto/XA310SlingsbyT31BCadetTX3Fairford17JUL2011AMB99.jpg

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n184/Amoskeeto/XS651SlingsbyT65SwallowTX1Fairford17JUL2011AMB97.jpg

[dakkg651]

Well done Al.

I bet a few bevies went down that night!:D

[Burtonwood Aviator]

Fantastic Photo's. Last time I saw the Prefect and the Swallow was over RAF Burtonwood some 30 years ago.
What does puzzle me though is, The Otfur release does not appear to be taped up on any of the aircraft !!

[Wander00]

Hell, there's a lot of dust in the air tonight. Flew Mk 111s at Swanron and T21s at Cranditz. Happy days

[WE992]

Burtonwood Aviator

Not taped but wire locked.

[T-21]

Amos, Brilliant photos and many thanks for posting. I bet the Sedburgh was a handful on aero-tow in those gusty conditions,the pilots arms must be aching.
Wander, were you at Cranwell 1966-68 ?

[Burtonwood Aviator]

Logical we used Insulating tape (For kiting as well), The collective schools must have used many miles over the years. Shares in the insulating tape manufacturer must have dropped dramatically since the conversion to Glass Fibre.
Once again lovely pictures

[Wander00]

T21 - 63-65 - We aerotowed two T21s to Weston Super Mare at Easter - must have been 1964 - never been so cold - never seen bone domes in a glider either, before or since!

[kevmusic]

Excellent pictures! :D Much envy here at Km Towers. :suspect:

[T-21]

Thanks Wander,
I flew 60 trips in WB923 and WG498 in 1967/8 they both had canopies fitted winter 1967 not the same as the open cockpits. Did you fly the Oly 2B "77" this is still flying in the USA as N606BG. We had 2 Tutors XE760 and VM648 but they seemed hangar bound most of the time.

[chevvron]

The canopy on '651 doesn't look quite right; is it a replacement from a Skylark 4 or Dart?

[JW411]

I can remember reading in the S & G back in the 1960s an article about two heros who were aertowed all the way from UK to Sweden in a T-21.

Now that is what I call dedication. Benson to Bicester was enough for me! Mind you, Andy was in a bit of a hurry.

[WE992]

Chevvron

You are correct. There were 2 sorts of Swallow canopies = the older ones were a small perspex bubble mounted on a frame that more ply on it than the photo of 651 and the latter ones had the large type perspex without the ply sides. The canopy bubble on 651 is modified from another.

All the Air Cadet Swallows had the old style canopy. I have advertised on the internet for one with no success.

[lederhosen]

JW411 sorry if I am asking a blindingly obvious question but by Andy do you mean the great Andy Gough?

[WE992]

Just seen this photo at the link below for the first time:


Slingsby T.30B Prefect TX1, WE983, Royal Air Force (http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1304398/)

Also some interesting photos from Halesland have just been posted on the 621 VGS Historic Flight web page below:

621 VGS Historic Flight (http://www.621vgs.co.uk/historicflight/)

More from the Historic Flight flypast at RIAT:

RIAT Sunday - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums (http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=110598)



Enjoy - I did.

[JW411]

lederhosen:

Sorry for the delay - been busy; I did indeed mean the late Andy Gough.

[sycamore]

Anyone know whether Olympia VV400 ,`60`.and Sky XA876,`59`, are still about ? Flew them both at Upavon ,mid `68,after a couple of trips in `Barge WB920...

[WE992]

The former ETPS Sky XA876 still exists. It became RAFGSA 876 and then BGA4670. I flew it at Syerston in the early 80's. It is now in private hands at Booker. Oly VV400 became BGA1697 and I am led to believe that it is currently under restoration at Rivar Hill.

[sycamore]

WE992,thanks; UK Serials had until recently `400` as written -off in`52,but just seen it`s been amended..