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kevmusic
15th Jul 2007, 12:54
Recent 'rapid take off' thread prompted this. Didn't know whether to post here or AH&N so mods please feel free to move:).

Taken when I was with 617 VGS, Manston, early 1986, I think.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/kevmusic9/Queuingtolaunch.jpg
Queuing to launch


http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/kevmusic9/Checkscomplete.jpg
Checks complete.


http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/kevmusic9/Attachcable.jpg
Attach cable.....



http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/kevmusic9/AllOut.jpg
All out!!



http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/kevmusic9/Yeehah.jpg
"Yeehah!!!"



http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/kevmusic9/fromthewinch1.jpg
From the winch



http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/kevmusic9/fromthewinch2.jpg
Eeeaasing back on the throttle.....


http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/kevmusic9/fromthewinch-cablereleased.jpg
Now reel in fast to inflate the 'chute!



http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/kevmusic9/Upslack.jpg
Up slack!


http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/kevmusic9/Creaksabitdoesntshe.jpg
Creaks a bit, doesn't she!!:}



http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/kevmusic9/Handonyellowknob.jpg
Nearly there.....



http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/kevmusic9/Isntshelovely.jpg
Isn't she lovely!

chevvron
15th Jul 2007, 13:19
Yeah takes me back to my days at 613 (Halton) Possibly a bit earlier than '86? I only say because when I did camp there in '88, they had glass ships.

diginagain
15th Jul 2007, 13:30
None of the fancy colour-schemes when I did my GS at Syerston.

All-over grey, pretty much like the weather for most of the week.

Frelon
15th Jul 2007, 13:35
Aaaah, that takes me back! Did 4000 launches in Mk 111s. Lots of hard work, but lots of fun. Those were the days!

c130jbloke
15th Jul 2007, 13:40
Did my first ever solo in a barge at Manston - happy days !!!

Are you sure about the date though ? I thought that by 1986 all the VGSs had converted to glass.....

:O:O:O

kevmusic
15th Jul 2007, 13:55
617 re-equipped with Grob 103s in June, 1986. I took this pictorial record of pre-glass operations because I knew it would soon disappear.......:)

Speed Twelve
15th Jul 2007, 13:57
Did my gliding BGT in the autumn of 1985 at 661 VGS Kirknewton. T'was the first course conducted on the glass ships there, and they were one of the first VGS to convert.

Had mixed feelings about it: on the one hand the Grobs were new and flash, particularly to a 17 year-old, but part of me wanted to have soloed in the Mk3. Having a full canopy was a bonus in the end; open-cockpit winch-launches during Scottish winters were for the truly masochistic.

lowlypax
15th Jul 2007, 15:17
Thanks for the pictures. They brought back happy memories of my solos at Swanton Morely in Feb 73. Do they still fly gliders there? I was amazed how the T21 stood up to the hammering they got from us cadets, especially some of my landings.

Ali Barber
15th Jul 2007, 15:23
Could you see where you were going through those welder's goggles? Just kidding.

Had a 20+ stone instructor when I did the gliding course. Doubled my normal height on the launch on my first solo. Nearly went around the circuit twice so I could start from my normal 700ft launch height!

diginagain
15th Jul 2007, 16:48
Funnily enough, the increased performance (ha!) sans instructor caught me by surprise too. That and having nobody to talk to.

effortless
15th Jul 2007, 16:57
I soloed at Tangers in one. Oh lord over forty years ago. Never flew another until I found one with a donk in it. So lovely to see the pics though. Thank youn very much indeed. I have no pics at all from those days.

robin
15th Jul 2007, 18:18
Same here - I've no pictures of my glider flights, more's the pity.

I did my ATC A&B certificates with 617 GS at Hendon and Bovingdon. Its thanks to them I got the flying bug and have been close to bankruptcy ever since

c130jbloke
15th Jul 2007, 18:57
As a staff cadet at 618, I remember spreading the love by pi§§ing on the winch engine manifold during a launch - made for a happy time in the cab for whoever was driving ( pitman + james W ) at the time ! Then we would indulge ourselves in bloodsports by grabbing another certain staff cadet's wig (bagpuss ?) and putting that on the manifold too !!
Happy, happy days.....
:D:D:D:D:D

kevmusic
15th Jul 2007, 19:06
Many of 618's legends were passed on to 617 by Bunty, Edmunds (Mr. Man) and others. Don't remember that one though..............

kevmusic
15th Jul 2007, 19:36
What was with the pooftah goggles They were pukka Uvex ski goggles, I'll have you know! Must admit, I wish we'd been issued with proper goggles though. To go with the old wood 'n' fabric open cockpit thing, what?

soddim
15th Jul 2007, 22:03
So interesting to read these posts from those who first experienced the joy of gliding with the ATC. I enjoyed enormously the satisfaction of sending young men (no females then) off on their first solo at gliding schools. At the time I was flying desks various and the flying was welcome. The motivation most of these young men had and the time they devoted to gliding convinced me that the RAF should look closer at gliding schools for aircrew recruits.

More money and flying for the ATC has always been justified in my opinion.

beerdrinker
15th Jul 2007, 22:16
What about Kirton in Lindsey in the mid sixties as an Air Cadet gliding centre. Great fun. Not only did I solo illegally at 15 (nobody asked me my age) but also fell in love (lust) with a WRAF.

Arclite01
15th Jul 2007, 22:17
Fantastic pics - reminds me of my youth too !
I flew almost all of the Air Cadet stuff then as a cadet and later, instructor:
Grasshopper
Swallow
Sedbergh
Cadet Mk111
Venture
Vigilant
Valiant
Viking
and even the Vanguard - remember her (what a babe - made the Viking seem a real dog by comparison)
Missed the Prefect sadly.........
I think we've seen the best of Air Cadet gliding though IMHO.
:hmm:
Arc

old-timer
15th Jul 2007, 22:19
ME TOO, HAPPY DAYS AT Debden with the Sedburghs & Tutors - top fun !!!
(ex 276 SQN - 1969 - 1972)

Guern
15th Jul 2007, 22:44
I went to Halton in I think it was 86. Great fun on Ventures.

windriver
15th Jul 2007, 23:56
Great pictures..Thanks. Brought back some happy memories of 645 at Catterick 1970.

Still have my CCF logbook.... It says I Solo'd in MKIII WT 918 after 23 launches and 57 mins time... Just a touch over 2 minutes a flight? Seems a bit quick for a circuit???


(The other highlight of this adventure was the spectacle of a Sgt Cadet attempting to pull rank to jump to the the front of the dinner queue in the Airmens mess..)

Streety
16th Jul 2007, 00:20
There's a few more piccys of that era here...

http://www.615vgs.com/olden615.asp

kevmusic
16th Jul 2007, 00:41
Some wonderful pics there, Streety.:ok: The Barge was a great machine - a gentleman's flying carriage. You could put your hand into the airflow just ahead of the leading edge and feel the stagnation point.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
16th Jul 2007, 02:50
What was with the pooftah goggles - nothing like that in my day!I don't know about goggles :8, but a single golfing glove is de-riggeur for the left hand in a 103 as it'll stop your left hand sliding sweatily off the speedbrakes just as you're starting to flare :ok:

MightyGem
16th Jul 2007, 04:18
Never flew the 31, but had many happy hours in a 21 out in Cyprus. Great fun.

diginagain
16th Jul 2007, 05:43
Just a touch over 2 minutes a flight? Seems a bit quick for a circuit???
Seems about right, although it probably felt much, much longer at the time.
Edited to add; any truth in the rumour that the 103s are being considered for disposal?

mystic_meg
16th Jul 2007, 06:04
Shouldn't the guy in post #1, pic #1 be in the 'pie eaters and the 50' rule' thread? :E

John Eacott
16th Jul 2007, 10:03
I soloed at Tangers in one. Oh lord over forty years ago.

Seems like yesterday ;) June 1965, but I cannot remember what colours they were painted then. Anyone?

StuartP
16th Jul 2007, 10:15
Thanks for those, memories of my one and only trip in an ATC glider at Scampton in 19...er...

"Sir, this seat belt isn't anchored to anything!" (waving free end of said seatbelt for pilot to see).

"Just shove it down the side of the seat son, If I stuff us into the ground it won't do you any good anyway."

leader12uk
16th Jul 2007, 10:23
Spent many a happy time at Halton - was taught on the Cadet, then it was found that I was to tall, My knees were poking out of the top!!!. Soloed in the Sedburg (I was in ther air for over 3 mins)

I nearly forgot the golden rule of hitting the Altimeter while on approach so I could guage the height to turn in and nearly gave the instructor a heart attack (I think his name was Bird a CivIns)

Frelon
16th Jul 2007, 10:27
The Air Cadet gliders in the 60's were painted silver with yellow bands on the wings (training aircraft). Certainly dull by dayglo standards but considerably lighter!
"By the way laddie it should have been a gentle tap!":=

Gainesy
16th Jul 2007, 12:04
After a rather exhuberant roll into an S-turn in a T-31 after a sim cable break:"Christ son, steady on, its not a bloody Hunter!". Soloed next flight, I think he was scared of me.:)

Very happy memories unearthed by those pics, thanks.

K.Whyjelly
16th Jul 2007, 12:24
Ahh, happy memories of my long lost youth in the late 70's came flooding back on seeing the pictures. Remember being chosen to go on a gliding course at the Air Cadet Central Gliding School at Syerston in February and on arrival being dismayed when told I was too tall for the 'new fangled' Venture glider and being sent across to the T21's. My first launch was straight into the base of lowish cloud out of which an awful lot of snow seemed to be falling.The instructor did a split ar$e turn and got us on the ground rapido style. That set the tone for the rest of the week with heavy snow showers and no flying...endex. Come the summer though I was now travelling to Little Rissington every weekend and after some 17 mins of training I went off on that joyeous first solo in a Mk3 and remember well turning downwind shouting at the top of my voice to the others on the ground "Whaaaaaay, look at me!!!!" Thank you for trusting in me 637 Sqn and Flt Lt John Diamond, wherever you may be, you helped set me off on this long and much loved career in aviation :D

SARREMF
16th Jul 2007, 13:42
Wow, what a thread.
I too spent an awful lot of weekends catching trains to get to Little riss to help out - the reward being the hangar flight at the end of the day - and John Diamond was there then too. Unfortunately, I was too young to go solo on the Barge or Mk3 so my 'course' was on the venture at South Cerney. Solo'd in 3 hours something just after failing my driving test! I remember the pre solo trip with the Boss - I think it was a Sqn Ldr Bagley [?] used to have a pipe in his mouth all the way round the circuit - he asked me if I had German relatives as he thought they might have flown Stukas - it was very steep and very fast but all sort of sorted out at the end. He told me then, get through selection you will be fine. He was right too. Although the writing was on the wall for helicopters I think!
Cracking thread I do not have any pictures from then so well done for posting.

TabbyCat
16th Jul 2007, 15:17
You can still track down an old ex-RAF glider if you wanted to go up again...

Slingsby T21 http://www.logico.f9.co.uk/OGC/

TC.

chevvron
16th Jul 2007, 15:35
Leader12uk: Dickie Bird is now CFI at Wycombe Air Centre.

1.3VStall
16th Jul 2007, 16:00
Over 40 years ago, on my 23rd launch, I did my first solo in a MkIII at the tender age of 16 at RAF Spitalgate. I bet half of you haven't a clue where that was! It was a WRAF training station, which certainly spiced up the week's course. Ah those happy days of sweaty summers in hairy blue trousers!

It must have touched a nerve as I'm still gliding, although the equipment is a little more up to date.

windriver
16th Jul 2007, 16:12
Spitalgate - I bet half of you haven't a clue where that was!

http://www.content-delivery.co.uk/aviation/airfields/Spitalgate.html

kevmusic
16th Jul 2007, 16:55
Thanks for all your kind comments. I have a few more taken from the same couple of days which I'll scan in and post in the very near future.

Actually, a few of my own memories have come back with all of this! Such as flying in January rain. At temperatures of +3 - +5C or so, and at a speed of 38 knots the rain felt like your forehead was being showered with hard little nails. We were issued with a lot of protective gear but somehow the rain found its way into the gaps. It was in such conditions that one could appreciate the true genius in Slingsby's T31 design. The draggy form and those not-very-high-aspect-ratio-wings-for-a-glider,-are-they? were qualities that ensured each flight was kept to a mercifully short two or three minutes.

Our operations at Manston were confined to the Northern Grass and it was whilst I was in my time as a CI there that I found out that Eugene Esmonde VC, and his flight of Strinbags had taken off on that fateful last mission from that very same Northern Grass! Talk about history!

Krystal n chips
16th Jul 2007, 17:45
Burtonwood GS...worked on the "no frills" principal..crammed into a converted ambulance at Warrington Station, dumpted at the launch point, heaved and grunted all day....had one instructor for whom "communication skills " was an oxymoron ( he decided to fly in cloud one day a few months later in a powered aircraft over Cumbria...the rising ground did the rest ) and was thus sent solo for my endeavours. First one was fine, second one had a little glitch in the circuit planning....coughs....hence landed out on a dispersal surrounded by 45gallon oil drums. Totally unfazed spotty youth at the time wondering what all the panic was about...pointed out to first Inst on the scene that I was Ok thanks....and had my first encounter with the "well done" in one ear and "WTF were you playing at!" in the other style of interview.

I was so traumatised by the experience that I continued with gliding once in the RAF, but only because by then I discovered it had added value in the forms of alcohol, non PC food and members of the opposite sex.

Prangster
16th Jul 2007, 19:53
Me too.Remember Fg Offs Deane and Plaskett? Some weird osmosis seemed to be at work in those days as they were able to instill the stuff of flight into even the doziest of cadets. Must have done a good job 'cos my mate Brian went on to be UK gliding champion. My first solos were flown on a freezing Febraury day only 6 weeks after my 16th birthday. (I'd conned the adj into signing the forms) I remember that I landed amidst snow flurries off the third. the CO was almost as white as the snow at the thought of what might have happened as I'd leapt into cloud off the winch. Who needs instruments (we do) Good job the turn and slip string thing worked as advertised. Sorry when Kirton went and we shuffled about rather for awhile. Dabbled on 644 as well before commissioning.

Solid Rust Twotter
16th Jul 2007, 20:04
Brian S, Mr Prangster?

If so, did some tugging for him out of Mmabatho.

Arclite01
17th Jul 2007, 01:46
.........And I also flew with John Wynch (who I think has sadly passed away) who once you got him talking about the 'old days' really opened up - telling all sorts of interesting stories about flying the T53 (XV951) and even brought in some pictures from home to show us................
.........And Bruce Tapson who taught me to fly on the Venture in '81 - his favourite phrase - 'Ace of the base' will stay with me always !
I think they showed that Trappers can be human too !
Arc:}

621andy
17th Jul 2007, 08:06
Aaaahh memories!

I flew at 621(hence my PPrune moniker:ok:) at Weston Super Mud, although I soloed at CGS @ Syerston in '81 in the barge as I was too tall for the Mk3.

I ended up as a staff cadet and Civilian Instructor at 621, and flew for many years there. Best time of my life;)

I'll post some classic pics when I return home, but you'll have to wait 'til december:=

The stories could fill the forum- a certain staff cadet rolling a lightweight Landy, and ending up in a court of enquiry..and getting paid for it!!(he got travelling expenses, meal allowances etc etc, and actually made money on the deal)

Reverse tug'o'war with 2 lightweights, driving down to the winch and getting 2 wheels off going round the corner at the end of the runway, towing cables out at 50mph on summer courses, and then the nights out...:E

We even acquired a roadsign that was positioned 3 miles from the village of 'Mark'(work it out:8), just down the road from WSM, the cadet with the spanners got shot at by a local with his air rifle as he was unscrewing it;), but it looked good in the crew room in our gas-lit Nissen hut(we were the last gas powered school..). The same cheeky chappy, also stole the Staishs' pennant from the flagpole after breakfast one morning- that caused some trouble I can tell you...
Then there were 'Hangar races' over the top of the (rotting) Bessoneau:},
Riding Ben Hur style on the Mk3 trailer, with a rope around the steering wheel of the landy, to 'influence' the direction(you couldn't call it steering!)-this one had a hand throttle, due to it having been a hearse in a previous life(chrome bumpers etc!!). You basically set the throttle, then climbed out over the back, leaving a bemused passenger sitting there:E:E

We did some flying too, but due to WSMs position on the coast, thermals were few and far between, unless the wind was easterly. Brilliant soaring for an hour or so as the sea breeze front came in, but then bugger all for the rest of the day(much like gliding here in Cyprus;)). I've lost count the number of times I got grounded for staying up too long...
Other highs and lows- loops in the barge, beat ups, trying to fly the barge from the left hand seat on 3-monthly checks:ooh:, formation flying and launching- 2 winches, a barge and a mk3 to get some air to air shots, and the all time classic- taking the seatback out of a mk3 and flying facing backwards, legs down the fuselage(you'll have to wait for the pics of that!)...

In answer to someones comments about goggles, we were issued with mk8 glass goggles at some point(the old dakkka dakkka dakka, hun in the sun types) but they were supersceded by the Uvex versions. Rumour has it, they were introduced after someone blamed their abortion of a landing on having been blinded by a cloud of insects on approach..hmm.

Oh, and I haven't mentioned Halesland! The rugged outcrop on the top of the mendips, now used by Mendip GC.
This site was used for advanced training- a couple of barges, a Prefect or 2, and a swallow were usually based there. We always got the sh1tty slots at the beginning and end of the year, to open and shut down the site during the summer. Some good soaring, but also some bluddy awful flights too.
The social life was good though- the Strawberry special down in Draycott, and the other one that I can't remember the name of. A memorable fancy dress night sticks in my mind...
Oh, and finally for now, the sledge! This was at Halesland, an old escort Mk2 bonnet with a winch cable bridle attached to the front. You hung on for grim death whilst being towed through the sheep sh1t and mud in full flying gear...we had a similar version at WSM, but made from a Morris commercial cars' bonnet, lifted from Westlands airfield dump.

Someone mentioned barging in Cyprus- well we still do it! I resoloed a barge last month after a 23 year lay off. Still a real gentlemans conveyance when the thermals are gently popping, but a real handful when the wind gets up...

Anyway, enough for now...

621andy
17th Jul 2007, 08:16
Just had a look at the pics on 615s website- and there's 'my' barge! I soloed in WB922, The Royal Barge(cos Prince Andy also went solo in it;))

621, now based at Hullavington, operate 922 as part of an historic flight. They've got an old barrage balloon winch as well...
http://www.621vgs.co.uk/ and check out 'vintage flight'

Prangster
17th Jul 2007, 12:50
Yes was Brian S we started as cadets together on 138 (First Nottigham) Sqn ATC he went on gliding I went after women.

TMK03
19th Jan 2009, 00:22
"Thank you for trusting in me 637 Sqn and Flt Lt John Diamond, wherever you may be, you helped set me off on this long and much loved career in aviation" K.Whyjelly

Pleased to report that Flt Lt John Dimond RAFVR(T) (A1* Category Instructor) is still instructing with 637 VGS at Little Rissington.

A superb instructor, made my dreams of going solo a reality. I think he's due to retire soon, after nearly 40 years of volunteering to teach cadets each weekend! Thanks John if you read this :ok:

barnstormer1968
19th Jan 2009, 00:49
Hi, I also did my early Air Cadet gliding at Locking (WSM), and your mention of Halesland brings back memories of chasing off the cows, so that "we" could use their strip!.

I think I was there around 1983 (can't find my old 3822 to check it)
Other memories are of the "Heron" pub at the end of Locking road (now re-named)
And the piles of those blue disabled car bodies, buts thats another story, and not for public telling:}

tezzer
19th Jan 2009, 09:02
Ahh, 1976, that long hot summer.

Used to ride my "Sports Moped" from home near Driffield to Linton every Friday evening and spend the weekend billeted there.
642 ACGS if I remember correctly, my instructor was (I think) Dave Butt, and it is with great fondness I remember my course, and the first solo.

Gave me a passion for flying then, great days.

CirrusF
19th Jan 2009, 10:33
In 1986 I was flying gliders with the Fuerza Aerea Argentina. My instructor was a former Luftwaffe Me109 pilot, and he was very magnanimous to the young "Inglese", even after I did my first (and hopefully last) wheels up landing.

K.Whyjelly
19th Jan 2009, 11:25
"Thank you for trusting in me 637 Sqn and Flt Lt John Diamond, wherever you may be, you helped set me off on this long and much loved career in aviation" K.Whyjelly

Pleased to report that Flt Lt John Dimond RAFVR(T) (A1* Category Instructor) is still instructing with 637 VGS at Little Rissington.

A superb instructor, made my dreams of going solo a reality. I think he's due to retire soon, after nearly 40 years of volunteering to teach cadets each weekend! Thanks John if you read this :ok:

Thanks for that snippet of info TMK03............and if you do get to read this John, my heartfelt thanks once more.

Frelon
19th Jan 2009, 12:52
It is reassuring to see that many of us remember the good old days of wooden gliders, muddy airfields, wellington boots and denims, last flight of the day etc., with great affection.

http://i.imgur.com/8XuFFT7.jpg (http://[url=https://imgur.com/8XuFFT7)
This is certainly not the way to remember Air Cadet gliding!

J1N
19th Jan 2009, 14:25
http://www.mallardsreach.co.uk/aeropl1.jpg

I'll be amazed if this posts.... My first solo: T21 WB927 in February 1973, 631 GS at RAF Sealand.

jimjim1
19th Jan 2009, 15:30
This thread has brought back some memories.

I too did the Gliding A&B in these machines. Luckily I got to do
it twice. Well unluckily for one glider and cadet. One course
was at RAF Ouston and the other near Arbroath I think (RNAS
Arbroath?), I am not sure and I have no real idea which was first,
but maybe Ouston.

I signed up for the first available course when I turned 16 in 1969
and the courses would have been in 69 or 70.

I don't recall all that much about it now other than quite a lot
about how to fly a glider, a few minor details and one major one.
We had T21s and all went swimmingly, the weather was good, we
were getting 1000 foot launches and flight times were 4-5 mins. I
think we did a turn in a thermal-ette once. As far as I recall the
norm was to be sent solo after the minimum of 20 launches or close
to it. No one seemed in any trouble of any kind.

Got the nose ballast in and did my first solo. Can't recall a thing
about it - which is quite good I guess. We were operating several
aircraft, two or three maybe, not sure, and I recall watching as
another first solo went all-out. The glider climbed away ever more
steeply right from the ground and the cable broke almost immediately.
The machine continued to pitch up until the stall which I estimated
at the time to have ocurred at 100 feet. One wing (right?) dropped
and the glider slid neatly, tip first, into the ground. The wing
shattered into the proverbial matchwood and the still yawing machine
then nosed into the ground. The soloist received a minor injury, a
cut on one calf, and the nose area was sort of split open at some
seams but generally intact looking otherwise.

Sadly all flying stopped. :(

It appeared to me as if the student had panicked and just pulled
back right from the off causing the crash. It had never before now
occurred to me that it might have been caused by some mechanical
failure. I feel that a lack of nose balast would have been noticed
by us for sure. Just no doubt at all on the last one.

It was clear the the wing had absorbed pretty much all of the energy
and that the outcome for the pilot could have been somewhat more
serious if there had been time for the nose to get to the bottom
before impact.

We were put in a hut (some sort of barrack hut) with a pot bellied
stove which we huddled round feeling bored and cold. I have the
idea that the crash cadet was with us and that the cut was maybe
of the 'couple of stiches' nature.

I guess it would have been the last day anyway and that we went
home as scheduled.

Never heard any more about it. I kept a postcard sized piece of
fabric or thin plywood from the skin for years but I have lost it now.
Since I had not completed the course I got to go on another one. :)

The second course was some months later and this time it was Mk3s
and was less eventful.

About the only thing I recall is that I got a severe earful from
instructor (down a tube?) when on an early landing I employed the
Sedburgh technique of gently pulling the spoilers to steepen the
approach. This seemed to shake my instructor rudely awake. I was
informed rather loudly that the spoilers were not to be used
*at-all*. My use of the spoilers did not cause difficulty with
the flight and I retained the controls and landed uneventfully
however I obviously did as I was told and left them strictly alone
thereafter. I think that I had to do the full 20 launches before
they let me go on my own again.

The Mk3 had a very noticably inferior performance, maybe 700 feet
and 3 minutes flight time. Never saw a sniff of positive climb.

Sorry to have injected a possibly negative tone here, if anyone
objects I will delete the message.

It was not however, for some mad reason, in any way a negative
experience for me. I couldn't wait for my next go. I did not
understand at the time why I was not able to complete my 3 solos,
I just wanted to go again. There were after all plenty more gliders
and I was convinced that the cause of the crash was pilot error (well,
panic induced pilot error) so there was nothing to worry about since
I was not going to be panicking:)

I don't know if I told my parents about the crash. Probably did, I was
really, really stupid then. On the other hand, I can't imagine my mother
letting me go right back if she had known.

The very last thing is that the boss (or someone) at one of the courses
had a Citreon DS (green?) which I got a ride in across the airfield. Magic
carpet.

Was altogether a fine thing which would have led to a career in flying
had I had a clue. As it turns out I am sure that it was on one of these
trips that I first went to a pub. That one has stuck more that the flying:)

We had day-glo bits I am sure, no goggles that I remember, and was
it really true that we went solo after about an hours flying time!!!
Do they still do it like that today?

SPIT
19th Jan 2009, 15:49
Hi
I know when the ATC re-equiped with Venture, Viking and Vanguard the standing joke in our area was that they were the NEW V-Force as the RAF Procurement ?? (EXCUSE THE SPELLING IF IT IS WRONG) could NOT afford the REAL THING ???.: ok::ok:

Truckkie
19th Jan 2009, 16:03
First solo at Syerston 1986:)

20 years of military aviation since - inspired by that first circuit!

Thanks a million ATC:ok:

JEM60
19th Jan 2009, 16:57
Lovely thread!! I was a Staff Cadet at 613 Gliding School at RAF Halton around about 1958 to59. Apart from family,they were some of the best days of my life.
Someone who posted in July referred to a civvy instructor named Bird. This was Dickie Bird, who became a partner in my Driving School, and subsequently, after we had both got our PPls, went on to part own Wycombe Air Centre. Last I heard, he had over 14,000 hours, and was a FRAeS [fellow of the Royal Aeronautical Society]

wrecker
19th Jan 2009, 20:20
Does anyone remember an aircadets unit at Christchurch (Hampshire) in the late 50s? I am trying to remember some names... Jack Brayburne and Paddy Delaney come to mind. Does anyone have any memories?

D120A
19th Jan 2009, 20:20
And for those of us old enough to remember No 1 Gliding Centre at RAF Hawkinge in the 50s and 60s, click on:

Scale Soaring UK (http://www.scalesoaring.co.uk/Movies/Movies.html)

and then on '1956 - Air Training Corps'. Movies of Sedberghs and Cadet Mk3s. Old and grainy, but then so am I.

Thank you Flt Lt Geoff Naylor for sending me solo.

And for those who flew at RAF Halton, look at '1960 Glide First, Jets Later'.

Occasional Aviator
19th Jan 2009, 20:33
Halcyon days indeed! I did my gliding course over an interminable number of weekends at Benson, with 612 VGS - motor gliders (Venture?). caused a bitof a stir when I soloed and decided to take the first turn-off from the runway, still going about 20kn! All worked out OK in the end though!

HighTow
19th Jan 2009, 21:30
Then there were 'Hangar races' over the top of the (rotting) Bessoneau

Sorry for the sideslip but is this something particular to glider folk?

I was talking to someone who witnessed ground crew at a glider training school during the 40's doing up-and-overs on a motorbike over Bellman hangar. I thought it sounded a bit far fetched but now you mention it... :D

IFPS man
19th Jan 2009, 21:38
I did my A + B at Swanton Morley in November 1964. Still remember arriving during a Sunday evening, in a thick Norfolk fog.. Also remember that one of the Instructors (I think it was Whittenbury) would, on the early morning trips, and just as you were set up for "an arrival", take over control and make a dirty dive for a mushroom patch he had seen on the flying field. What breakfasts.....
I also still have a copy of the "buff" Gliding Centre notes. Amongst other things, it includes the names of the Instructors. The OC was Flt Lt K E Bailey, DFC, then: Flt Lt I Ladley, Fg Off R G Gregory, Fg. Off G Naylor, Fg Off R Whittenbury and Fg Off D G King. I wonder what became of them?? The booklet also had a table which listed all the aircraft flown by the Instructors, from Ansons to Valiants, via Spitfires, Lancs, Typhoons (REAL ones), Wellingtons, Bombay, Sunderlands, plus at least another twenty single, twin and multi-engined aircraft... Bliss. I'm still scratching around in my parents loft for my 3822 so as to get to my Flying Log!!
AW

621andy
19th Jan 2009, 23:07
IFPS Man- Ian? Ladley and Duggie King were both still flying in the early 80s, working for the Trappers at CGS/CFS...Both names appear in my logbooks:yuk:


I must get myself a scanner when I'm back in civilisation in march, then I'll scan some 'interesting' pics from the 80s...:E

dakkg651
20th Jan 2009, 08:56
Unfortunately both Ian Ladley and Dougie King (aka Skull on a Stick) have passed on to that big gliding field in the sky. Ian flew Tiffies during the war. Dougie had a succession of London taxis for his personal transport. Both were great characters.

High Tow.

I can confirm that a motorcycle, in this case a Norton 850 Commando, will go up the side of a Lamella hangar with ease.

Coming down the other side, however, is a different matter!

Jumping_Jack
20th Jan 2009, 11:46
eeeee...luxury.....you ain't done open cockpit until you've done Primary Glider (Grasshopper?)!! One of the most frightening experiences of my life......:ok:

henry crun
20th Jan 2009, 18:28
You are easily frightened, the SG38 was great fun. :)

Beancountercymru
20th Jan 2009, 22:58
The tale is told of cadet Bloggs sat in the from seat of a Mark III at 618 at West Malling when what appeared to be a young cadet corporal ran across and said to Bloggs "No-ones looking - shall we take this up for a ride", and promptly jumped in the back, called for a cable and took off with Bloggs in the front terrified.

The young corporal was the CO's son ( and an instructor) who later went on to Fly Navy, and one weekend brought his Sea King, with an all ex Kent Wing crew, to a Maidstone hotel for the Wing Ball - after spending a day giving air experience at , I think, Rochester Airport. The departure next morning from the hotel helipad was a a bit noisier than the normal helicopters they were used to on a Sunday morning

Flight_Idle
20th Jan 2009, 23:13
Thanks for those photos, I did my course at South Cerney in 1968, joined the RAF a couple of years later (as a techie) & carried on gliding at the Bannerdown RAFGSA club at RAF Colerne.

I would have loved to have taken a MKIII up on a strong thermal day, but never had the chance.

50+Ray
21st Jan 2009, 05:49
First flight - in a Mk3 as an underage cadet at South Cerney with raindrops stinging my face.
A&B at Swanton Morley in 1967.
Have not been in a glider since, but the ATC started my career path. Over 11,000 hours now and still grateful to them.

B_Fawlty
21st Jan 2009, 13:27
the other near Arbroath I think (RNAS
Arbroath?), I am not sure

Or RNAS Condor as it was (pre-1971) and RM Condor since then.

If only I had listened to my CO's recommendations re the gliding at Condor when I was a spacie with 38(F) Sqdn. Oh the callowness of youth :ugh::ugh:.

Green Flash
21st Jan 2009, 15:30
It was Linton in the early 70's for me, with the wind whistling through my silly grin once I'd gotten over the first launch - my first winch shot in the cabriolet and I thought we were going vertical into orbit, all I could see was cloud and the odd crow! Later helped out once or twice at Dishforth. Excellent bar, bunkhouse, bacon butties from the bus whilst running the wings and trying to escape from an industrial sized hangover, seem to vageuly remember a Spitmunk and an AgCat hauling the Tin Tank into North Yorkshire sky's. Thems twer the days .... :ok:

621andy
21st Jan 2009, 22:55
Just had a PM from an ex staff cadet at 621 which brought back memories- mostly involving strip clubs and drinking:} although getting the winch and Rovers bogged down brought back certain memories too:*

Hopefully, he'll work out how to upload pics, or send me them and I'll post them on here...if they're suitable:}

Good to hear from you Crabbo:ok:

kevmusic
21st Jan 2009, 23:34
with raindrops stinging my faceBoy, do I remember that - one January day, around '85, temp about +4, and the rain at 38 knots felt like hundreds of pin-sharp needles thrown against your forehead!

I would have loved to have taken a MKIII up on a strong thermal dayWe didn't get many of those at Manston but I did keep a Mk3 up for 6 minutes once :} - with a sprog!

(Just re-read thread & realised I'd already written about the rain-needles :O. Advancing age is a terrible thing.........)

backseatjock
22nd Jan 2009, 00:26
Windriver -I too was a 645 'graduate' but started my training at Dishforth, which meant a drive up to Leeming after flying each night, for o/nt accommodation. Not the most pleasant of journeys in a packed, geriatric landrover. Leeming was also home to 11 AEF (I think) at that time.

We all relocated to Catterick about half way through my course, which took us from enjoying the luxury of a super sized field to something more akin to a postage stamp. And I do also remember a number of pretty quick circuits being a feature of Catterick life, but there was no shortage of flying time.

Fond memories, like so many of those who have responded to this thread :)

esa-aardvark
22nd Jan 2009, 06:52
Anyone remember Alf Warminger at Swanton Morley,
maybe around 1960 or so ?

henry crun
22nd Jan 2009, 07:53
Wasn't he a genuine Sheriff of Nottingham ?

Fitter2
22nd Jan 2009, 09:39
Anyone remember Alf Warminger at Swanton Morley,
maybe around 1960 or so ?



Wasn't he a genuine Sheriff of Nottingham ?


Well, he was Sheriff of Norwich. Active until the early 80's. Part of a memorable occasion when about 6 gliders in a competition landed on the beach near Cromer (the sea got in the way of further travel). PC Plod arrived on his bike and proceeded to ask for the names and licences of the pilots.

Pilot 1: "Name's Sir Peter Scott, here's my card, we don't actually have licences".

Only slightly undeterred, next pilot:

Pilot 2: "Alfred Warminger, Sheriff of Norwich - how can I help you officer?"

Plod departs on bike, muttering to himself.

False Capture
22nd Jan 2009, 09:43
It was scary enough doing my BGT in a T-61 ... only because one of the cadets from our squadron smashed one to bits on his first solo. His surname was Heap.:}

dakkg651
22nd Jan 2009, 10:22
Remember the spoiler cables in the T31 were in reach of the instructor in the back seat.

Pulling them open one at a time provided pretty effective roll control. Great for taking cocky staff cadets down a peg or two.

Also from the back seat you could look up and see the sky in the gap between the two wings and then muse at the pair of ridiculously thin pins holding them on!

The altimeter in the back seat would underead by at least fifty feet in flight due to the high pressure area under the wing.

As a young staff cadet C cat at 633 back then, I was given a pair of size ten WW2 flying boots. Polished black leather and fleece lining still containing a small knife to cut off the tops in case of bailing out over occupied territory. The first time I wore them I was detailed to fly with a new A&B student. Having done the control checks before the cadet climbed in the front, we were launched skyward only for me to find my boots jammed in the two tunnels which went either side of the students seat. Having ground briefed the stude on the importance of aileron/rudder co-ordination to eliminate the considerable adverse yaw effects, I don't think he was too impressed with the subsequent 2 minute circuit with a 38 knot wind blasting his face first on one side then the other. Having managed to alight sucessfully, I had to wait for the student to vacate the aircraft, thus releasing the pressure on the tunnel sides before I could extricate myself. Never wore those boots ever again. It did, however, teach me the importance of doing pre-flight checks with the aircraft configured for flight.

Wish I'd still got those boots. They make a fortune on e bay.

Happy Days

Arclite01
22nd Jan 2009, 10:46
I saw some once - I think they were called 'bucket boots' IIRC

Arc

Pontius
22nd Jan 2009, 13:18
The stinging rain in the eyes made me smile, as I remember exactly the same thing happening to me. Doing my A & B at RAF Upavon in the very early 80s (see, much younger than you'd think) I did wonder why all those smart-arses were posing around in their ski-goggles. Well, it didn't take too many British weekends and the associated crap weather, pelting rain and severely impaired visibility through almost closed eyes to figure that out and then it was of to a local sport shop to equip myself with the same.

Good ol' ATC. Gliding, PPL, free trip to the USA etc. What a great organisation :ok:

621andy
22nd Jan 2009, 13:50
I'd forgotten about the back seat of the MK3 dakkg651 (http://www.pprune.org/members/101439-dakkg651) :ok:

Stacks of room compared with the front seat, but always bloody windy:}
I'll post the backseat and backwards facing pics when I get home...

I remember not being able to speak after many flights due to my face freezing in the winter :\, but soaring the sea breeze in the Barge on a summers afternoon can't be beaten...well apart from soaring somewhere away from the coast;)
The downside was getting grounded for staying up too long and watching everyone else having fun from the 'comfort' of the winch...at least a pile of 'winching manuals' kept you entertained between launches:E

The most fun was evening flying when the AEGs had gone home, and staff flying could commence- loops and beat ups were the order of the day!

ahhh, great times:p

sumps
22nd Jan 2009, 14:22
I was at 621 as a staff cadet and did my A + B there.

I remember going backwards in a MKIII. Take off was interesting trying to stop yourself from crushing you bits in the support strut that was now between you legs! :eek: It was quite surreal going backwards around WSM for 4mins at 1000ft.

And then going to Halesland flying the barge and throwing crow scarers over the edge at the cows in the adjoining field :=(NB I found these Pics on Flickr) (http://flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/)...I recognise the first two of the group shot

Or watching someone being towed on a moggi minor bonnet and diapering though the side of the canvas hangar as the landy took a sharp turn...

And then someone launching a remote control glider out of the barge only to find out that they hadn’t turned the model on so all they could do was watch it whistle slowly over the severn towards Wales :}

And then there was the summer camps…

Oh yeah and I learnt to fly!

621andy
22nd Jan 2009, 15:00
Sumps-The dear government at my present location won't let me view Flickr :*:oh:
However I suspect that's the photo of Graham Bishop et al..

When were you there? I suspect just before me- I started there in 81/82 I think, but flew as an AEG cadet before that, and went through to '87/88 I think.

There are more pics on the 621 website. I notice they're all called Squadrons now instead of Schools:mad:

dakkg651
22nd Jan 2009, 15:16
621 andy

Were those winching manuals entitled Mayfair and Playboy per chance?

I was winching a barge one afternoon when the cable broke just in front of the winch. As usual the cable drum brake wasn't working too well and the broken end of the cable proceeded to thrash the protective grill below my feet. Got the drum stopped eventually and climbed down to await the arrival of the Land Rover with the other broken end. I then became aware of what I can only describe as ball ache. I spent the next two embarrasing hours at the Cosford Hospital as a very attractive nurse picked shards of metal out of my thighs and scrotum. Conversation was rather difficult at this time especially as her mates kept popping in to see if she wanted any help.
That night, whilst sitting on a very soft cushion in the bar, I noticed two fragments of winch cable embedded in one of the lenses of the sunglasses I had luckily been wearing.
Now that could have had more than embarrasing consequences.

Incidently, one of the nurses mates helped me with equipment testing over the next couple of months. No Fault Found.

sumps
22nd Jan 2009, 16:15
621Andy see PM

S

GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU
22nd Jan 2009, 19:06
J1N. Many thanks for the picture of WB927. On page 18 of my Form 3822;

13 APR 69, WB927, Pilot J Chaplin
13 APR 69, WB927, Pilot Me! A&B qualifying soloes, 10 mins, 5 mins, 6 Mins

Happy days.

621andy
23rd Jan 2009, 02:20
J. Chaplin- Would that be Jim(?) Chaplin from Sealand? I did my solo at Syerston and did my course with a Mr Chaplin- Great guy with wild red hair if I remember correctly.

DAKKG651-They might've been, the names seem familiar somehow:E

Had a laugh at your cable break incident:} Though they were bloody dangerous. The drums used to have perspex covers in them, but they'd get scratched and broken, so people would take 'em off...with the results you witnessed intimately;)

Sumps- I was at school with you as well! I'll PM you later;)

Radithor
23rd Jan 2009, 02:30
If only we had open cockpits now days! Where I'm doing gliding lessons, with no air circulation in the cabin and 30 - 35 degrees outside, it can get quite uncomfortable :uhoh:

621andy
23rd Jan 2009, 02:54
When we swopped to the glass ships, there was a lot of talk about buying a barge, but after a few weeks under a lid, in gliders that actually did something apart from fall downwards, these ideas seeméd to take a back seat:} Although Webby and co have now got a Barge at Hullavington which is great fun:ok:

They've also got a barrage balloon single drum winch- I impressed the hell out of the Staff Cadet who was winch driver the day I was there, by getting straight into the cab and giving the barge a perfect launch after just watching one launch...like riding a bike;)

GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU
23rd Jan 2009, 09:35
621andy. That would be the very same Jim C. As I recall, he always wore the old (even then) light blue flying overalls tucked into his “escape wellies”. A true gentlemen, as were many of the Sealand instructors.

621andy
23rd Jan 2009, 11:12
GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU- I remember on one day we'd thermalled up to 3800' and Mr. C suddenly realised everyone was packing up for lunch...Ever done a spin lad? Knowing full well I hadn't...Up goes the nose, crossed controls and down we went...3000' spin to 800':eek:, then round to a hangar landing! Absolutely bloody terrifying, but we didn't miss lunch:ok:

CH2
23rd Jan 2009, 13:14
Taken well after her ATC days, but may kick the old grey cells - ZA634

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b217/CH2/Venture3.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b217/CH2/Duxford3-4.jpg

Frelon
23rd Jan 2009, 14:11
Just achieved BGA "C" Certificate in WE992 - hence the stupid grin!

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x599/dx4jaer_3384abce86dcddf823c44a882295980e6382a004.jpg


Even the gliders were black and white in those days!

621andy
23rd Jan 2009, 14:38
Anyone remember the Swallows? I only flew one of them but I think there were 5 at one point.

Discovered one of 'em -XS651 I think, in Cyprus in a sorry state:(

Just missed out on the Prefect, but probably wouldn't have fitted anyway...at least with the 'canopy' on:}

Fitter2
23rd Jan 2009, 16:53
Hello Sumps

I forwarded your Flicker link to Mike Philpott - he says he'll sue! (although he headed the e-mail 'Happy Days').

He has a slightly more upmarket chariot than a Mk III these days, which he kindly let me borrow in South Africa last week.


http://i44.tinypic.com/21dprmf.jpg

Frelon
23rd Jan 2009, 17:09
Whoa there - thread drift alert!!

Wasn't this thread entitled Air Cadet Gliding pix in the 80s (pre glass)???

Come on chaps, it is getting to be more like Spacey Adventures!!

Get those old pictures out!

621andy
23rd Jan 2009, 17:14
Fitter2-Is MIke P. still chopping wood for the Beeb?!
Met him once when he was instructing on an easter course @ 621 as a guest instructor from 615(?) I think. He was originally a Weston boy though. Went onto fly at Booker I think.

Other 'names' to conjure with;

Leigh Hood CGS/CFS- Did my C cat with him. Think his son is 'something' in gliding these days:}
Lloyd Paulton CGS/CFS - Did our RT course with this character:ok:

Duncan Freehold from 615- another character who used to 'guest' for us- Used to judge Barge beat ups by how close the tailskid was to his head:ooh:

..and many more...

WE992
23rd Jan 2009, 17:59
Fantastic to see the photo of WE992. I currently own it along with Mk3 XA310, T.21 WB981, Eton WP269 and Grasshopper WZ793. All reside at Keevil Wilts should anybody have the desire to see them in the flesh.

kevmusic
23rd Jan 2009, 19:13
I did my 'C' Cat with Leigh Hood - lovely guy, best of the Trappers. Lloyd Poulton showed us how to rig a G103 on our convex course and somebody asked what the little rings on the cockpit sides were for. "Parachutes", he said, in plummy Queen's English; "When the Master Race ejaculate they use a static line." :D :D

WE992
23rd Jan 2009, 21:12
621 Andy

There were indeed 5 Air Cadet Swallows

XS650 - Now BGA3823 active at Lasham.
XS651 - Became R99 with the RAFGSA at Kingsfield. Now stored and I have attempted to buy it to no avail.
XS652 - Now BGA1107 based at Chipping.
XS859 - Now BGA1136 stored at Pocklington.
XT653 - Now BGA3469 resides in Wiltshire.

Perhaps you have some photos of XA310 at WSM hidden away?

Fitter2
23rd Jan 2009, 21:40
Whoa there - thread drift alert!!

Wasn't this thread entitled Air Cadet Gliding pix in the 80s (pre glass)???

Come on chaps, it is getting to be more like Spacey Adventures!!

Get those old pictures out!


Apologies - I did solo in a Cadet Mk III (WT919) at Kirton Lindsey in 1960, but couldn't afford a camera then!

621andy
23rd Jan 2009, 23:07
I do indeed have some pics of 310:ok: It was always oue favourite of the fleet(apart from 991, the Barge of course!). Something to do with the rigging I think, but always seemed nicer to fly.

Didn't Robin Birch have this a/c? I sent him some bits and pieces, and the gliding instructor manual etc.

WE992
23rd Jan 2009, 23:13
310 lives at Keevil and will be on holiday with 621 Vintage Flt at Hullavington this year. Please try and post a photo from when she was a government servant!

kevmusic
24th Jan 2009, 01:10
A bit more of the action, as promised by me a while back:

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/kevmusic9/Openthetoybox.jpg

Opening the toybox...


http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/kevmusic9/suncomingupbehindthe1917hangar.jpg

Sun coming up over the 1917 hangar. (Since pulled down, alas :ugh:)


http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/kevmusic9/Waitingforacable.jpg

Waiting for a cable



http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/kevmusic9/TheydvehadtoredefineVFRfortheMk3.jpg

They'd 've had to re-write VFR for Mk3s!!


http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/kevmusic9/Baseleg.jpg

Base leg



http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/kevmusic9/Onfinal.jpg

On final



http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/kevmusic9/Youcouldalmostgetoutwalk.jpg

You could almost get out and walk!

621andy
24th Jan 2009, 01:28
WE992- Certainly will, and I'll post it on ABPIC as well;) I'll have to drop in at 621 again...fridays are vintage days I think?

Kevmusic-Great pics...but hardstandings?....and a hangar that doesn't blow away in a storm:yuk::* Bet you had electric as well:}

kevmusic
24th Jan 2009, 01:36
Kevmusic-Great pics...but hardstandings?....and a hangar that doesn't blow away in a stormhttp://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/pukey.gifhttp://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/bah.gif Bet you had electric as wellhttp://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/badteeth.gif

The glory that was Manston! :{

Hueymeister
24th Jan 2009, 10:54
Anyone got any pictures from Swanton Morley. I did my BGT in 1985 slightly early as there had been a faff (:}) with my birthdate on joining! The Venture was great fun if bit hot in the summer! Started me in aviation some 23 years ago! Now fly something rather bigger and with four jets!

EyesFront
25th Jan 2009, 17:20
I recently found my old gliding logbook for my advanced course at Halesland in March '67. My instructors included the F/L Hobkirk, PO House, FO Dodd, S/L Courage, FO Stride and - of course the perennial OC, S/L Robinson. I spent most of the week soaring T21s but it was too windy to solo there, so we went back to Weston and I completed the 15 T31 solos for the advenced certificate. On 1 April '67 I see that I flew 13 circuits in XA308 - three check flights then ten solos. - total 39 minutes!

Seaking93
25th Jan 2009, 19:42
Re post 52

WT867 hanging upside down in the hangar, flew in that one twice on 10/4/82 at 626VGS RNAS Predannack, happy days indeed:ok:

QuePee
26th Jan 2009, 00:48
Hueymeister asked for pictures of RAF Swanton Morley, I was based there for a few years in the late 60's and have many photos of that era, although mostly civvi stuff. Attached however is one of the ATC fleet at rest in the hangar.

QuePee

http://i40.tinypic.com/2z9bejd.jpg

I should havve mentioned that the date was sometime in 1968.

621andy
26th Jan 2009, 01:55
Eyesfront- You'll be amazed to know Brian House is still flying! Retired from his life as a vet, but last I heard, still going strong:ok:

John Stride was a really really nice chap 100% committed to ATC gliding, and an excellent Instructor. He was the senior gentleman on sundays for what seemed like hundreds of years! A bit supersticious(?), He would never talk about mishaps and accidents until the hangar doors were laced up(!), but then he had some stories;)
His son Andy, became a good mate of mine, and was also a G1 with me, before leaving to join the RAF. Had some great nights out with him too! A very good pilot as well! Anyone know his whereabouts?

As to 308, those numbers appear in my logbook many times:ok:

It's very frustrating sitting here without my photo albums and logbooks:{:*...can't wait to get home in month or so;) Though the next problem will be buying a negative/print scanner without breaking the bank, oh, and finding the time to scan them all:rolleyes:

Dan Winterland
26th Jan 2009, 05:06
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb73/dbchippy/115.jpg

Sedburghs and TMk3s at 662 VGS, HMS Condor, Arbroath in 1979. WB775 was the glider featured in the Squadron Print. I still have mine somewhere, signed by the 662 CFI. Lovatt Fraser who sent me solo in Mk3 WT919.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb73/dbchippy/114.jpg

Segburgh winch launching. Air Cadet gliding started me on a flying career - which is still going!

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb73/dbchippy/119.jpg

Not a glider! A Chippy at RAF Newton. I later became an RAF Pilot and did Air Experience Fling in Chippys myself. I also became a QFI on Chipmunks at the RAF EFTS. One day, I was being checked by our Standards pilot, sitting in the back and I mentioned to him that my first flight was in a Chippy, sitting in the back. I told him I remembered the pilot had a 6 Sqn 'Flying Canopener's badge on the back of his helmet. I turned out that it was him, fifteen years earlier!

My sons are both now in the RAF section of their school CCF. Long may the organsiation continue!

nacluv
26th Jan 2009, 18:04
Ah - a Chippy at Newton. Those were the days. Remember always trying to get a sighting on the National Watersports Centre at Holme Pierrepoint to get my bearings back towards the airfield...

Also had several trips gliding from one or two places - Scampton definitely, and I'm sure also Lindholme - always in Sedberghs.

Wish I could find my old 3822...

Top thread! :D

208
26th Jan 2009, 19:01
I got my gliding licence in the 1960's at RAF Sealand lift from the cooling towers at the steel mill to be an ATC cadet again what a thought

7of9
27th Jan 2009, 09:48
I used to fly with Humber Gliding Club when they were at Lindholm in 1980 then we were moved in 1982 to RAF Scampton.
There was an Air cadet unit based on the same airfield as us & i did manage to blag a few flights in the "Barge" for the open cockpit experience, that was great fun. Although we did call them Space Cadets due to the flying helmets & goggles they used to wear.:):)

Some great photo's on here & great memories of proper Gliding, not the wimpy stuff they do now with the windmills on the front! Thats not gliding!!

Trev

J1N
27th Jan 2009, 11:05
G-BU: I wish I could find my 3822! I remember other T21s at Sealand were WB993 (the first one I ever flew) and XN157. We only had one T31, which i never flew. A Swallow single-seater appeared for a week or two and was strictly for the instructors amusement.

They certainly were happy days. I remember rounding up sheep in a Land Rover before flying could start each day. The gliders lived overnight in an enormous hanger, which apart from the space left at the end by sliding the doors for the gliders was full to the roof with crated Canberra wings. There was a black-painted Sea Hawk outside the hanger, and at the North Camp a rather sorry-looking Spitfire.

Security was non-existent. One day it was drizzling when a few of us arrived before the instructors: we pushed a hanger door open far enough for the smallest cadet to squeeze inside and find the big cranking handle which operated the hander door mechanism. We then waited inside the control caravan parked in the hanger until an instructor "officially" opened up the hanger and then we quietly appeared, mingling with the now rather wet cadets who had waited outside!

I think my longest flight was about thirty minutes, thermalling over the John Summers steel works with an instructor called Tyson. Other instructors I remember were Westaway (my own instructor), Chaplin (as already recalled in earlier posts) and the CO I think was called Stanford-Smith, who sometimes flew with his Jack Russell terrier. I was sent solo by the CO: I seem to remember that there had been a halt to solo flights for some time after an accident at another school and I was the first to solo after the ban was lifted.

I feel oddly privileged to have enjoyed flying in the early seventies (and at the RAF's expense) exactly the same aeroplanes (T21, T31, Chipmunk) that cadets would have been flying in the early fifties, well before I was born. And of course those same planes carried on well into the eighties (and nineties, in the case of the Chipmunk).

How lucky we were!

Arclite01
27th Jan 2009, 12:06
I'm going to have a dig around in my puics as well see what I can find from West Malling days...................

Arc

Arclite01
27th Jan 2009, 12:11
pics that should be........

Arc

WE992
27th Jan 2009, 19:27
Not strictly in line with the title of the thread but I thought people might like this photo of WB981. http://www.rcawsey.co.uk/bga3238.jpgBuilt Built by Martin Hearn Ltd in 1949. Awaiting collection 30/12/49. Allocated to 42GS, Bramcote, later Cosford, 3/01/50. Declared cat 4R following accident, 4/09/50. To Slingsby for repair 20/09/50. Allocated to 9MU RAF Cosford. 13/12/50. 125GS, Langley, 6/06/51. Cat 4R after flying accident, 20/06/52. To Slingsby 3/07/52. Gliding Instructors School RAF Detling 20/10/52. Declared cat 4R after accident 8/02/53. Returned to Slingsby 20/03/53. Allocated to 9MU RAF Cosford 25/05/53. Transferred to 10 MU, RAF Brize Norton, 2/01/56. to Gliding Instructors School Hawkinge 19/03/58. 1GC Swnton Morley 8/12/61. 611GS Swanton Morley 8/08/77. 635GS Burtonwood 24/04/78. Sold 7/01/86.

kevmusic
27th Jan 2009, 19:51
Beautiful photo.........and just look at the cu.!

CirrusF
27th Jan 2009, 20:07
I think they should re-introduce "open-top" gliders like that. Flying closed in gliders is akin to sailing a yacht from inside.

henry crun
27th Jan 2009, 20:21
Is stranded cable still used on winches in UK ?

airborne_artist
27th Jan 2009, 20:28
Flying closed in gliders is akin to sailing a yacht from inside

Or sex with a D:=re:=

WE992
27th Jan 2009, 20:39
Henry Crun

The Air Cadets certainly still use steel cable but even they are considering converting to 'plastic rope'.

hugh flung_dung
27th Jan 2009, 22:36
The initial pics brought back happy memories of hitch-hiking from Lincoln to RAF Hemswell most weekends about 1969-1970, until (sadly'ish) girls became more interesting for a while.
I recall that just before my first solo in a mk3, two were being launched at the same time from the (4 drum?) winch. The lower one drifted into the cable of the upper one and said cable proceeded to saw through the wing. The winch driver realised what had happened so dropped the guillotine - unfortunately the wrong one, then dropped the correct guillotine but it failed to work so he had to run out with the axe. Whilst this was happening we saw the upper glider release and the lower glider descending quite rapidly with rather a lot of cable hanging out of its port wing. Fortunately the instructor managed to keep the wings level and it came to earth over the hump with a whoomp sound. There followed a brief "keystone cops" moment while we all hung-off the sides of available vehicles to charge over to the "incident". Fortunately both occupants were OK (by the standards of the times) but had sore backs. The poor old glider looked rather the worse for wear and I think was written-off> When we inspected the wing the cable had nearly reached the spar so they wee lucky.

(All the above subject to the vaguaries of hazy recollection)

HFD

WE992
28th Jan 2009, 17:16
False Capture. Good move its a shame we can't see the photos though.

Warmtoast
28th Jan 2009, 17:56
Slight thread creep, but still R.A.F. gliding related.

I was a contributor to “BUKA” the R.A.F. Thornhill, Southern Rhodesia, station magazine and thought readers would like to see an article to which I contributed about the R.A.F. Thornhill Gliding Club in 1952.


Gliding at Thornhill

The Club was formed at the beginning of 1951 with the object of bringing this kind of flying to members of R.A.F. Thornhill. The active life of the Club was, however, delayed by the difficulty of obtaining equipment. Two second hand gliders were bought from the Rand Flying Club, Johannesburg, and these eventually arrived at Thornhill. They were assembled, and successfully test flown during March, this year [1952]. Since then, the weekend meetings of the Club have become a familiar feature of Thornhill life. The number of training “hops” made has been encouragingly large mostly by members with no previous flying experience. Flt. Lt. Woodcock has repeatedly shown that soaring is possible here, and other members have had less spectacular successes.

CLUB EQUIPMENT

One of our gliders is a “Primary,” probably the most elementary form of flying machine still flying; I’m sure the Wright Brothers would feel very much at home with it. But come and see it at a thousand feet; it really does fly! In it, you can experience to the full the sensation of flying. The other is the “Tutor” a more advanced type which has an enclosed fuselage and cockpit, with a few instruments. We look forward to the clay when the Club will have a high-performance sail-plane, to explore fully the atmospheric currents over Rhodesia, but that I fear, is looking a long way ahead. The gliders are launched by being towed across the airfield by a small truck, using a towing cable of steel wire, up to five hundred yards long. With this method, it has been possible to launch the gliders to heights of over a thousand feet. By the way, there is no truth in the rumour that the truck has more “airborne” time, over bumps, than the gliders. Unfortunately, both gliders and the launching truck have been “grounded” for repairs and improvements recently, but by the time this appears in print the Club should be operating at high pressure, with two launching; trucks, getting new members airborne, and making; longer flights in the “Tutor.”
Since both gliders are single-seaters, training is “the hard way.” In the first stage the “Primary” is used and the speed is too low for it to become airborne, but the pupil becomes familiar with the controls as the glider “slides” across the airfield. After a very short time, he finds himself flying across the airfield, in full control, first at only a few feel, then at greater heights as he gains experience, and learns to control the glider in turns. Promotion to the “Tutor” will soon follow, with further training in easy stages, leading up to the red-letter day when he soars successfully and the rest of the club, sitting on the ground, begin to ask, “Is he ever coming down?”

Club Organisation

The Club is led by Sqn. Ldr. Lamond, who has had considerable soaring experience in New Zealand and Germany. Instruction in the capable hands of Flt. Lt. Adams and Flt. Lt. Woodcock. We aim to be self-supporting, so funds must be raised from members. The entrance fee is £1, with a monthly subscription of 10/- (50p), and a further charge of 1/- (5p) for each launch; but we find it well worth the money. With only two gliders, we must limit the members, but this limitation will be removed when more gliders are obtained. If you have a liking for fresh air, and a sport that needs skill, and you want to fly, get in touch with the Club. It will always provide something of interest, even if it is merely the envious watching of birds soaring up and down the runway.
Finally, might I mention, to readers living in Gwelo, that gliders and sailplanes fly without making a noise.


Notes. We regularly ‘acquired’ petrol for the tow trucks by draining a little from an Anson or a Harvard or two! High octane aviation spirit and low-compression engines don’t normally go well together and as a result the high-octane petrol played havoc with the low-compression engines of the towing trucks; burnt valve seats etc caused lots of un-serviceability. Luckily two Gliding Club members worked in the MT Section and repairs were relatively quickly resolved.
I joined the Club in late 1952 and my first ‘flights’ in the “Primary” were hair-raisingly scary as one was tugged along the ground at 30-40 mph, having been told to keep the wings level with the ailerons and follow the towing truck with the rudder. With only a couple of inches between the seat bottom of the “Primary” and the baked-hard Rhodesian airfield surface, avoiding bumps on the ground, including nascent ant-hills (and there were many) was as much as part of learning to fly a glider as actually getting off the ground. No instructor alongside to get you out of trouble in those days, although I seem to recall the duty instructor had a megaphone to shout instructions from the ground!
Later as one progressed to short hops things improved and even more so when the instructors allowed flights up to a couple of hundred feet or so, cast of and then do a series of ‘S’-turns, real flying at last. Sadly in my case I never did get to fly the ‘Tutor’ as the Rhodesian Air Training Group started to close down shortly afterwards and the Club assets were sold-off. But it was all good fun with fond memories.
See the two photos of the club’s two gliders as they appeared in BUKA. After all these years I’m not sure what make of gliders they were.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Primarynocaption.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Tutornocaption.jpg

Club members L.A.C Jukes, Flt Lt. Woodcock and Mr Hills.

False Capture
28th Jan 2009, 18:13
These are from the late 80s but at least they're not made of glass. Samlesbury 635VGS:

ZA662
http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo283/nickbusschau/ZA662a.jpg

ZA634
http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo283/nickbusschau/ZA634a.jpg

Champagne Anyone?
28th Jan 2009, 21:54
When was 617 at Hendon??

Fogie one
28th Jan 2009, 22:19
Good photo's of the Venture glider at Samlesbury. Now that 635VGS has closed down after 25 years at RAF Burtonwood and 24 at BAe Samlesbury, how about some more comments/photo's from folks who were involved there.
Referring to previous postings Doug King is very much alive as is Lloyd Poulton.

kevmusic
28th Jan 2009, 22:37
When was 617 at Hendon??

When I joined 617 in '84 they'd been at Manston only a few years methinks, so the 70s looks a good bet! But how long before that, I couldn't say.

Tiger_mate
28th Jan 2009, 23:16
I was a Staff Cadet at 635 when at Burtonwood and Taylor & Griffiths were but boys. (One with a Saab and the other with a mk1 Escort) Got about 30hours in overall before joining up a fair ammount of which was solo. Sadly I had no interest in photography other then a visit to Halesland (Cheddar Gorge) one year and I have one somewhere of Swallow XS651 at that location. Cadet TX3 XA282 was my first solo cab and she still flies, albeit from the roof of the aeroplane museum at Carnofon Caernovo doh welsh unpronouncable with a castle. I think that the others were XA791 and barge XN185. Trunky (Brian) was boss, and had been a sqn member since gliders were invented, but it was a Mr Legget or Ligget that sent me skyward on my bill. Walking back to the HQ from the Motorway Services on a dark saturday night could be a well scary event, with the ghosts of aircrew past playing with your head.

olddog
29th Jan 2009, 00:48
I was a staff cadet and CI with 617 at Hendon in the early and mid sixties. 617 moved to Bovingdon before I joined the RAF in 1966 and moved to Manston after that. Wonderful days, I used to take a short cut over the railway line behind the hangar about dawn and get everything ready for the arrival of the senior instructors. A mis-spent youth, weekends gliding and 2 nights a week with my ATC Sqn in the other half of the hangar which is now part of the RAF Museum cost me my A Levels, but the RAF accepted me anyway!! The CO was Bert Adams followed by Bill Williams. Other instructors were Ken Young, Colin Golding, Geoff Smith and Tug Wilson. A great start to a flying career which lasted almost 40 years.

olddog
29th Jan 2009, 01:04
I have a couple of photos of 617 at Hendon on my hard drive can someone please PM me and tell me how to post them?

henry crun
29th Jan 2009, 03:08
olddog: The sticky in History & Nostalgia will tell you all you need to know.

Flag Track
29th Jan 2009, 15:58
Tiger Mate,
It was xE791 (Solo'ed a+b on that) did quite a bit on XA282, Instructors Messrs Griffiths,Bell,and Beaver, W Taylor taught me up to solo! I used to drive past Burtonwood to work at Liverpool Airport, nostalgic pavlovian grin passing the bridge! I recently visited Carnarfon (sp)airport, pointed out to colleague I'd flown a mk3 like that one not realising it was actually THAT one! EEEeeeeee, the memories!!

Flag track

tiger26isfinals
29th Jan 2009, 19:35
Hi all,

Few more photos at...

633 VGS - AIR CADET GLIDING SCHOOL (http://www.633vgs.org.uk/)

Enter the gallery section then go to 'Days Gone By'.

smarthawke
29th Jan 2009, 20:16
Please forgive the intrusion of an RAF CCF cadet but here's a picture of me (then in the 6th form) heading towards the first floor of Grantham Hospital across the King's School playing fields (main East coast railway line embankment in the background). Fortunately, I didn't get as far as the hospital... We had the tripod stand for it, did grass slides and as I was flying with the RAFGSA East Midlands Gliding Club at Wittering I was deemed best qualified to see if it flew!

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/3374/grasshopeerjnpto1.jpg (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=grasshopeerjnpto1.jpg)

Must have been in the late 1970s.

WE992
29th Jan 2009, 20:35
Fantastic photo. I am surprised the height the glider has reached from a bungey launch.

smarthawke
29th Jan 2009, 20:45
You were surprised?!! You should have been sat in the darn thing!!

Our leader, John Bomphrey (CCF Flt Lt and physics teacher, visible in the background) said 'keep it 3 ft off the ground and you'll go further'. I didn't have much choice in the height gain - when the bungee went tight, he went and shouted 'run' to the minions...! I released the aft restraining cable as quickly as possible and I was away. Bit to low to scratch away in any available lift though....

I've got another picture at work that I'll scan tomorrow evening.

WE992
29th Jan 2009, 20:50
I own several Grasshoppers and have flown about 100 launches on them including 1 aerotow and several winch launches, but never seen one at more than a few feet from a bungey.

Please see the PM Isent you.

kevmusic
29th Jan 2009, 20:52
to scratch away in any available lift though....

A Dagling soaring! Est ce possible?? :eek: Anyone got any Dagling/Grasshopper soaring stories?

henry crun
29th Jan 2009, 21:06
I once had about 10 seconds of reduced sink if that qualifies. :)

WE992
29th Jan 2009, 21:11
Sadly I never soared any of my Grasshoppers or EON Eton TX1. I have heard tales of primary gliders soaring at VGC Rallies which I find hard to believe.

WE992
29th Jan 2009, 21:17
http://www.rcawsey.co.uk/bga4963.jpg

RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. D/d 18/2/53. 87 GS, Weston Super Mare, 28/2/53. 621 GS, Weston Super Mare (Noted there in 59, 75 when wearing the name 'Ossy', 81 - 84. Sold in 1985.

Whilst not quite on thread an effort to try and turn it back in the right direction. My Cadet Mk3.

JEM60
29th Jan 2009, 22:18
At 613 Gliding School at Halton [where I was a Staff Cadet] we had a Dagling, and the instructors fitted it with an altimeter and an ASI, winch launched it and obtained around 800 feet I believe. It was flown by S/Ldr Topsfield when I saw it fly. A circuit was possible from that height, but it sure did come down like a brick!!!!

petermcleland
29th Jan 2009, 22:59
This was my first solo in 1949 at North Weald:-

http://www.petermcleland.com/001_1949.jpg

It is a Mark I Cadet...We didn't have any two seaters then. It had no instruments and you judged the airspeed by the wind noise. I don't think it even had a wheel!

Having no two seaters, they couldn't really teach you to turn so the object was to get you to stay airborne for thirty seconds from the cable release at the top of a winch launched "high hop" this gave you a "Gliding A" only:-

http://www.petermcleland.com/misc/GlidingA.jpg

Years later while flying for BEA, I became an instructor on 617 Gliding school at Bovingdon and then Manston...Happy days :)

621andy
29th Jan 2009, 23:08
Some lovely shots on the 633 site, shame they're all too small though:) Nice one of 877(Another one of ours:ok:)

I remember we had a winch that had done service at 617 at some point, as carved into the backplate of the cab were the words

'617- The Winch Busters' :}

Thinking back, our fleet for many years consisted of the following;

WB991 Barge
XA310 Mk3
XA308 Mk3
XN240 Mk3
WT877 Mk3

But as the glass started to arrive, our complement seemed to change almost weekly. I can remember XE791, but the others will have to wait until I get back to so-called civilisation:confused:

According to the Oracle (John Stride), all the XE series had a rigging problem and were much more likely to spin off a stall:8 I remember one of our Instructors coming back white as a sheet after intentionally 'trying out' a spin in a Mk3....he didn't do it again:} There was a good reason why spinning was banned;) Apparently, they didn't come out too easily. As they lost height anyway at the speed of a polished house brick, then recovering from a spin must've been very 'interesting'

Arclite01
30th Jan 2009, 11:18
I have spun them 2 turns - it's interesting - and you have to watch VNE on the recovery. Entry is interesting depending if it's off a turn (where it appears to enter almost 'over vertical') or not but really it's conventional in all respects - as is recovery.

The syllabus for cadets on Gliding proficiency (as it then was) only taught 'stall in a turn' (incipient stage) - and we actually had one spin in off a cable break - full blooded spin so quick the guys did not really have any idea what happened until they hit.............. both walked away from it though. A/C was Cat 5.

I've flown XA, XE, XN & WT series - can't really say any performed better or worse. The Cadet 3 was build like a brick outhouse, but the Cadet 1 was like an eggbox the ply was so thin I thought...................

Arc

Fitter2
30th Jan 2009, 13:38
The Cadet 3 was build like a brick outhouse


Well, sort of..........

An ex RAF pilot still prominent in civilian gliding was commemorated in a clubhouse cartoon that accurately depicted an actual event.

The Mk III, having run over a runway edge, still contained a 'well-nourished' army officer on air experience in the front. The instructor was out of the back, peering underneath saying (quote verbatim) 'Thank god nothing's broken'.

The back of the Mk III was dangling at a 20 degree angle to the front.............

621andy
30th Jan 2009, 15:00
I only ever saw one broken MK3 in my time at 621, and that was caused by me putting the arm of a retrieve trolley through the nose of 877 on an overenthusiastic retrieve from halfway up the field:O

Arclite01-Interesting stuff- never dared try it myself! You're a braver man than me!

wz662
30th Jan 2009, 15:31
I was once on the recieving end of a low flying complaint from the Captain of The Queens Flight :eek:
As newly joined CI with 612 at Benson I had been racking up the 1 minute and 2 minute flight times logged for Mk IIIs doing cable breaks. Retrieving the Mk III involved a trailer and required live ballast (usually the student) in the cockpit to take the strain off the skid. From the far end of the 06 run the quickest way back to the launch point was via the apron and right past the window of the said Captain. As the landrover/trailer/Mk III combo passed his window he looked up and saw only the glider with me in it apparently flying at very low level down the apron :ugh: We still laugh at the memory of the incident today.
One of the two Barges that 612 had was VX275 which was the oldest barge with the Cadets having been presented in 1947 and named 'Venture' although we always referred to it by the name of the lady who presented it "Mrs Hepple" VX275 was last heard of in the RAF Museum's store at Stafford. I'd love to reaquaint myself with her.

glad rag
30th Jan 2009, 18:40
Best thread ever, memories of Kirknewton flooding back.................

WE992
30th Jan 2009, 20:44
Cadet Mk3 production list. Can anybody correct or add any additional information to the individual histories?

C/NTypeRegistrationRemarks
669T.31B Cadet TX3WT865RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 2/7/51. Written off 8/02/53. SOC 8/2/53 Cat 5 c. Sold to and rebuilt by RNGSA.

676 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT866 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 2/7/51. Written off 31/8/56. SOC 18/10/56 Cat 5 C.


677 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT867 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 13/8/51. 617 GS RAF Hendon, 9/64. 626 VGS, Predanack. 616 VGS, RAF Henlow. Sold 14/8/85. Stored at Eaglescott, Devon


678 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT868 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 13/8/51. 123 GS, 623 GS, White Walthan. 645 GS, RAF Catterick, 1983. CGS Store, RAF Syerston, 5/86. Sold.

679 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT869 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 20/8/51. 632 GS Meir, 1960. 611 VGS, Swanton Morley.

680 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT870 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 20/8/51. 611 VGS, Swanton Morley. Sold 21/8/86.

681 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT871 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 20/8/51. 632 GS, Meir, 1960. 626 GS. 633 GS. Sold 22/4/85.

682 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT872 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 3/9/51. 645 GS, RAF Catterick, 1962. 611 VGS, Swanton Morley. 616 VGS, RAF Henlow. Written of in 1977 during structural tests.

683 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT873 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 5/9/51. 622 GS. Sold 3/10/83.


684 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT874 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 17/9/51. 87 GS, Halesland 9/59. Written off 12/1/64.


685 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT875 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 17/9/51. 87 GS, Halesland, 9/59. 626 GS. 615 GS, Kenley. Destroyed in Hangar fire at Kenley 23/10/78.

686 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT876 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 2/10/51. Written off 13/6/61.

687 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT877 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 2/10/51. 625 GS, RAF South Cerney, 11/72 - 8/76. 621VGS, Weston Super Mare.


688 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT893 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 17/10/51. Written off 4/10/63. Sold.

689 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT894 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 17/10/51. Written off 15/4/67.

690 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT895 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 29/10/51. ? GS, RAF Debden, 9/73. 614 GS Weathersfield. Written Off in fatal accident at Weathersfield, 16/4/83.

691 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT896 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 29/10/51. Written off 26/7/55.

692 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT897 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 29/10/51. 89 GS, 622 GS, Christchurch. W/O 18/10/61. To instructional duties 6/1/62 as 7710M. Scrapped at Weeton 20/5/63.

693 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT898 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 29/10/51. 87 GS, Weston Super Mare 1951. 89GS Christchurch, 54-63. Old Sarum 63-78. RAF Upavon, 78-79. 662GS Arbroath, 79-86. CGS Store, RAF Syerston, 7/86. Sold 21/886 to F Pape.

694 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT899 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 27/11/51. 643 VGS, 661 VGS. ACCGS RAF Syerston. Sold 20/8/85 to R J Everett.


695 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT900 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 17/12/51. 662 GS, Arbroath. CGS Store, RAF Syerston, 7/86. Sold 9/9/86.

696 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT901 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 3/12/51. 611 VGS, Swanton Morley. 622 GS, Old Sarum. Sold 22/8/85.

697 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT902 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 3/12/51. Sold 16/4/85. 698T.31B Cadet TX3WT903RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 11/12/51. 633 GS, RAF Cosford 1960. 615 VGS, RAF Kenley. 661 VGS Kirknewton. Sold.

699 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT904 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 11/12/51. 617 GS, RAF Hendon. 617 GS, RAF Bovingdon. 645 GS, RAF Catterick, 1982. Sold 9/12/85.

700 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT905 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 7/12/51. 645 GS, RAF Catteick, 1978 - 82. Sold.

701 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT906 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 7/1/52. 661 VGS Kirknewton. 622 GS. 662 GS, Arbroath. 645 GS, RAF Catterick, 1983. 663 VGS, RAF Kinloss, 5/86. Sold 14/9/87.

702 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT907 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 7/1/52. 611 VGS, Swanton Morley. Written off at RAF Swanton Morley, 13/8/70.

703 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT908 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 9/1/52. 122 GS, 613 GS, RAF Halton. CGS Store, RAF Syerston, 5/86. Sold 19/8/86.

704 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT909 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 9/1/52. 611 VGS, Swanton Morley. 626 GS. Sold 2/8/85.

705 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT910 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Fuselage SSK/FF/1411, Port Wing SSK/OW/4077, Starboard Wing SSK/OW/3348, Elevator SSK/E/1418, Tailplane SSK/T/1410. Delivered 28/1/52. 613 GS, RAF Halton, 7/71. 611 VGS, Swanton Morley.

706 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT911 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 28/1/52. Sold 21/8/85.

707 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT912 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 18/2/52. 611 VGS, Swanton Morley. Written off 26/7/71.

708 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT913 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 18/2/52. 615 VGS, RAF Kenley. 614 VGS, Weathersfield, 07/84. CGS Store, RAF Syerston, 9/86. Sold 8/8/86.

709 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT914 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 10/3/52. 616 VGS, RAF Henlow. 622 GS. Sold 20/8/85.

710 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT915 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. D/d 10/3/52. 661 VGS Kirknewton. 611 VGS, Swanton Morley. Sold 12/9/86.

711 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT916 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a.Delivered 17/3/52. 662 GS, Arbroath. Written off 5/5/65.

712 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT917 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 17/3/52. 624 VGS, RAF Chivenor, 1971. 614 GS Weathersfield, 7/83. Sold 9/9/86.


713 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT918 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 7/4/52. 611 VGS, Swanton Morley. 616 VGS, RAF Henlow. 626 GS. 645 GS, RAF Catterick, 1978 - 83. CGS Store, RAF Syerston, 5/86. Sold 19/8/86.

714 T.31B Cadet TX3 WT919 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Delivered 7/4/52. GS Kirton in Lindsey, 1960. 661 VGS Kirknewton. 633 GS. 662 GS, Arbroath.


824 T.31B Cadet TX3 XA282 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. D/d 9/6/52. Fuselage SSK/FF1428, Port Wing SSK/OW2877, Starboard Wing SSK/OW2872, Rudder SSK/R1425. 105 GS, Cambridge. 626 GS. 635 GS, Burtonwood. CGMF Store, RAF Syerston. Sold.

825 T.31B Cadet TX3 XA283 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. D/d 9/6/52. Written off 12/7/55.

826 T.31B Cadet TX3 XA284 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. D/d 16/6/62. Sold.


827 T.31B Cadet TX3 XA285 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. D/d 30/6/52. 645 GS, RAF Catterick, 1961 - 2. Written off 30/10/62

828 T.31B Cadet TX3 XA286 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. D/d. 14/7/52. 615 VGS, Kenley. 624 VGS, RAF Chivenor, 1971. CGS Store, RAF Syerston, 8/86. Sold.


829 T.31B Cadet TX3 XA287 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. D/d 16/8/52. 662 GS, Arbroath. Written off 18/9/78. CGS Store, RAF Syerston, 5/86.

830 T.31B Cadet TX3 XA288 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. D/d 28/5/52. 645 GS, RAF Catterick, 1964. 612 VGS. 615 GS, Kenley. Sold.

831 T.31B Cadet TX3 XA289 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. D/d 8/9/52. Fuselage SSK/FF1436, Rudder SSK/R4811, Tailplane SSK/T1607, Elevator SSK/E1704. 622 GS. 634 VGS, RAF St Athan. 636 VGS. Sold.

832 T.31B Cadet TX3 XA290 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. D/d 7/10/52. 643 VGS, 661 VGS Kirknewton. 663 VGS, RAF Kinloss, 1969. Stored 4 MGSP, RAF Dishforth, 7/86. Sold.

833 T.31B Cadet TX3 XA291 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. D/d 2/10/52. Written off 30/3/54.

834 T.31B Cadet TX3 XA292 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. D/d 6/10/52. 615 VGS, RAF Kenley. Sold.

835 T.31B Cadet TX3 XA293 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. D/d 15/11/52. ACCGS, RAF Syerston, 1982. Sold.

836 T.31B Cadet TX3 XA294 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. D/d 27/10/52. 82 GS, St Merryn. 617 GS, RAF Hendon, 64. 622 GS Old Sarum, 1974.

837 T.31B Cadet TX3 XA295 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. A/W 8/10/52. Fuselage, SSK/FF1442. Rudder, SSK/R1438. Port Aileron, SSK/A3109. Starboard Aileron SSK/A2902. D/d 15/10/52 to 192 GS. CGS RAF Syerston. Sold.

838 T.31B Cadet TX3 XA296 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. D/d 20/10/52. 662 GS, Arbroath. Written off 16/11/55.

839 T.31B Cadet TX3 XA297 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. D/d 1/12/52. Written off 29/3/59.

840 T.31B Cadet TX3 XA298 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. D/d 12/11/52. Written off 21/4/57.

841 T.31B Cadet TX3 XA299 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. D/d 3/11/52. Partisipated in Battle of Britain flying display at Tangmere, 19/9/53. Written off 2/3/58.


842 T.31B Cadet TX3 XA300 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. D/d 8/12/52. 624 GS, Exeter. 626 GS.615 VGS Henley. Destroyed in hangar fire at Kenley 23/10/78.

843 T.31B Cadet TX3 XA301 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. D/d 8/12/52. 617 GS, RAF Hendon, 9/64. 616 VGS RAF Henlow. Written off at Kenley 26/8/74.

844 T.31B Cadet TX3 XA302 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. D/d 17/12/52. Sold.

845 T.31B Cadet TX3 XA303 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. D/d 26/1/53. Written off 6/8/54.

846 T.31B Cadet TX3 XA304 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. D/d 4/12/52. 611 VGS Swanton Morley. Written off 26/5/70.

847 T.31B Cadet TX3 XA305 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. D/d 5/1/53. 613 GS, RAF Halton 10/64. Written off 14/3/65.

848 T.31B Cadet TX3 XA306 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. D/d 12/1/53. 83 GS, Aston Down. 622 GS Upavon. Written off 24/4/83.

849 T.31B Cadet TX3 XA307 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. D/d 19/1/53. Written off 15/8/62.

850 T.31B Cadet TX3 XA308 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. D/d 23/2/53. 87 GS, Halesland. 621 GS Weston Super Mare. 622 GS. 634 VGS, RAF St Athan. Sold.

851 T.31B Cadet TX3 XA309 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. D/d 23/2.53. 102 GS, 611 GS, Swanton Morley. Sold.

852 T.31B Cadet TX3 XA310 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. D/d 18/2/53. 87 GS, Weston Super Mare, 28/2/53. 621 GS, Weston Super Mare (Noted there in 59, 75 when wearing the name 'Ossy', 81 - 84. Sold in 1985.

853 T.31B Cadet TX3X A311 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. D/d 25/2/53. Sold.

854 T.31B Cadet TX3 XA312 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. D/d 23/3/53. Written off 14/4/68. Instructional as 8876M. RAF Preserved Manston History Museum.

855 T.31B Cadet TX3 XA313 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./6023/c.b.8a. Written off 13/6/56.

WE992
30th Jan 2009, 20:58
Mk 3 Production list part 2

897 T.31B Cadet TX3 XE784 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./9708/c.b.9b. Written off 18/1/62.

898 T.31B Cadet TX3 XE785 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./9708/c.b.9b. 663 GS, Aberdeen Airport, 7/67. 662 GS, Arbroath. Sold.

899 T.31B Cadet TX3 XE786 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./9708/c.b.9b. 643 GS. 662 GS, Arbroath. CGMF store, RAF Syerston. Sold.

900 T.31B Cadet TX3 XE787 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./9708/c.b.9b. Written off 28/7/61.

901 T.31B Cadet TX3 XE788 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./9708/c.b.9b. Written off 7/5/60.

902 T.31B Cadet TX3 XE789 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./9708/c.b.9b. 662 GS, Arbroath. Sold.

903 T.31B Cadet TX3 XE790 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./9708/c.b.9b. ? GS RAF Debden, 9/73. 614 GS Weathersfield, 6/83. Sold.

904 T.31B Cadet TX3 XE791 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./9708/c.b.9b. 87 GS, Halesland. 635 VGS, Burtonwood. 645 GS, RAF Catterick, 1958 - 64. Sold.

905 T.31B Cadet TX3 XE792 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./9708/c.b.9b. Written off 1/9/55.

906 T.31B Cadet TX3 XE793 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./9708/c.b.9b. 87 GS, Halesland. 625 GS, RAF South Cerney. 622 GS Christchurch 1963. 626 GS. Instructional at RAF St Athan, 2/88 as 8666M. Sold.

907 T.31B Cadet TX3 XE794 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./9708/c.b.9b. RAF Finningley 9/74. 611 VGS, Swanton Morley.

908 T.31B Cadet TX3 XE795 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./9708/c.b.9b. CGS Store, RAF Syerston, 5/86. Sold.

909 T.31B Cadet TX3 XE796 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./9708/c.b.9b. Written off 5/5/65.

910 T.31B Cadet TX3 XE797 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./9708/c.b.9b. 645 GS, RAF Catterick, 1963 - 78. Written off 28/9/78. Nose with 645 VGS, Topcliffe, 7/06.

911 T.31B Cadet TX3 XE798 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./9708/c.b.9b. 'E' ACCGS, RAF Syerston. Written off at Syerston 24/8/84. Sold.

912 T.31B Cadet TX3 XE799 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./9708/c.b.9b. 44 GS, RAF Cottesmore, 7/53.644 VG, RAF Syerston. 'R' ACCGS, RAF Syerston. Instructional as 8943M. ACCGS, RAF Syerston. Sold.

913 T.31B Cadet TX3 XE800 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./9708/c.b.9b. 622 VGS, Old Sarum. Sold.

914 T.31B Cadet TX3 XE801 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./9708/c.b.9b. 611 VGS, Swanton Morley. 617 VGS, RAF Manston. Written off 18/9/78. Sold.

915 T.31B Cadet TX3 XE802 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./9708/c.b.9b. 624 VGS. CGMF store RAF Syerston. Sold.

916 T.31B Cadet TX3 XE803 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./9708/c.b.9b. Written off 17/7/61.

917 T.31B Cadet TX3 XE804 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./9708/c.b.9b. 611 VGS Swanton Morley. Written off, crashed on approach at Swanton Morley 18/8/65.

918 T.31B Cadet TX3 XE805 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./9708/c.b.9b. Written off 15/8/55.

919 T.31B Cadet TX3 XE806 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./9708/c.b.9b. 622 GS.

920 T.31B Cadet TX3 XE807 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./9708/c.b.9b. 633 GS, RAF Cosford, 1960. 625 GS, RAF South Cerney. 615 VGS, RAF Kenley. 616 VGS, RAF Henlow. Sold.

921 T.31B Cadet TX3 XE808 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./9708/c.b.9b. 617 VGS, 645 VGS, RAF Catterick, 1964 - 84. CGMF store, RAF Syerston. Sold.

922 T.31B Cadet TX3 XE809 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./9708/c.b.9b. 617 GS, RAF Hendon. Written off 16/7/62.

923 T.31B Cadet TX3 XE810 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./9708/c.b.9b. 611 VGS Swanton Morley. 616 VGS, RAF Henlow. 662 GS, Arbroath. Sold.

924 T.31B Cadet TX3 XE811 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./9708/c.b.9b. Written off 14/4/55.

925 T.31B Cadet TX3 XE812 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./9708/c.b.9b. ? GS RAF Debden, 9/73. 611 VGS Swanton Morley.

1169 T.31B Cadet TX3 XN194 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. Written off 2/6/69.

1170 T.31B Cadet TX3 XN195 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. Written off 17/4/64. To instructional duties as 7845M.

1171 T.31B Cadet TX3 XN196 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. 616 VGS RAF Henlow. 617 GS, RAF Hendon. Written off 7/6/69.

1172 T.31B Cadet TX3 XN197 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. Written off 2/5/65.

1173 T.31B Cadet TX3 XN198 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. Fuselage SSK/FF/1664. 661 VGS Kirknewton. 645 GS, 662 GS, Arbroath. RAF Catterick, 1965 - 78. Sold.

1174 T.31B Cadet TX3 XN199 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. Written off 26/11/70.

1175 T.31B Cadet TX3 XN236 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. 611 VGS, Swanton Morley. 662 GS, Arbroath. Written off 25/1/79.

1176 T.31B Cadet TX3 XN237 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. Written off 15/4/73 Nr West Malling.

1177 T.31B Cadet TX3 XN238 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. 611 VGS, Swanton Morley. 622 VGS. 626GS. Sold.

1178 T.31B Cadet TX3 XN239 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. 'G' ACCGS, RAF Syerston. Instructional as 8889M.

1179 T.31B Cadet TX3 XN240 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. 87 GS, Halesland. 621 GS Weston Super Mare. 626 GS. Sold.

1180 T.31B Cadet TX3 XN241 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. 625 GS, RAF South Cerney, 11/72 - 8/76. Sold.

1181 T.31B Cadet TX3 XN242 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. Destroyed in Hangar fire at Kenley 23/10/78.

1182 T.31B Cadet TX3 XN243 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. DD 2/6/59. Sold 1/5/85.

1183 T.31B Cadet TX3 XN244 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. DD 16/6/59. 626 GS. 635 VGS, Burtonwood, 12/12/59. 626 VGS, RNAS Predanack.

1184 T.31B Cadet TX3 XN245 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. DD 16/6/69. 616 VGS, RAF Henlow. Written off 8/6/72.

1185 T.31B Cadet TX3 XN246 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. DD 9/7/59. 87 GS Christchurch, 622 GS Christchurch 1955. 617 VGS, Hendon, Bovingdon and Manston. SOC 1986. Sold 14/9/87

1186 T.31B Cadet TX3 XN247 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. DD 14/7/59. 622 GS, Christchurch. Written off 21/8/62.

1187 T.31B Cadet TX3 XN248 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. DD 13/8/59. Written off 23/4/65.

1188 T.31B Cadet TX3 XN249 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. DD 18/8/59. Written off 21/6/64.

1189 T.31B Cadet TX3 XN250 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. DD 9/9/59. 616 VGS, RAF Henlow. 645 GS, RAF Catterick, 1976. Sold 2/1/79.

1190 T.31B Cadet TX3 XN251 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. DD 2/10/59. 87 GS, Halesland. 611 VGS, Swanton Morley. Written off 2/5/78

1191 T.31B Cadet TX3 XN252 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. DD 27/10/59. 611 VGS, Swanton Morley. Sold 21/8/86.

1192 T.31B Cadet TX3 XN253 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. DD 25/11/59. 616 VGS, RAF Henlow. Sold 17/9/85.

smarthawke
30th Jan 2009, 22:28
Here's the other picture I have of me in Grasshopper XP490 (date confirmed from my log book as 22 May 1980, 3 'flights' that day, total time 1 minute!).

This picture was taken by Don Stanley, our Tech Drawing teacher and amateur photographer who wanted an action shot and positioned himself in front of me in the V of the bungee....

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/9262/grasshopperjnp6fw1.jpg (http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=grasshopperjnp6fw1.jpg)

Note duty cadet in the background with the garden fork from which the machine was tethered as the bungee was stretched. I appear to be looking down waiting for the bungee ring to release. Damn smart beret though....

Frelon
31st Jan 2009, 08:39
621Andy

Here's one for you that didn't make it through. Spun in after intermediate cable break. Fortunately both occupants survived the accident.

Made of strong stuff those Mk IIIs!

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x165/Biggles615/XA301_740825.jpg

ghostie
31st Jan 2009, 17:09
Can anyone shed some light on what happened to the Vanguard? I had a week at Syerston with John Wynch on one in 1983.

He told me they were to be the new Glider for the cadets, but next thing I heard was that they had placed a big order for Grobs.

It was a brand new machine I was on, no pilots notes or anything. John Wynch said that he was writing them as he taught me!

They also had a Janus, but that was an instructors toy, as was the single seater, cant remember what that one was, an ASK 13 perhaps??

Anyway, always wondered why the Vanguard disappeared.

WE992
31st Jan 2009, 18:40
The Vanguard known as gthe ASK21 in the civillian world lost out to Viking quite simply because Schleicher could not produce them fast enough without turning over the entire production line to the Air Cadets.

ZD643 Schleicher ASK-21 21141 Delivered 14/3/83. Ex BGA2884. ACCGS, RAF Syerston. 645 VGS, RAF Catterick, 1983. RAF Kemble Stored, 7/89. Sold as BGA3704/GBN.

ZD644 Schleicher ASK-21 21142 Delivered 11/3/83. Ex BGA2883. ACCGS, RAF Syerston. 645 VGS, RAF Catterick, 1983. RAF Kemble Stored, 7/89. Sold as BGA3697/GBF.

ZD645 Schleicher ASK-21 21143 Delivered 18/3/83. Ex BGA2885. ACCGS, RAF Syerston. 645 VGS, RAF Catterick, 1983. Stored at Kemble, 5/90. Sold as BGA3674/GAG.

ZD646 Schleicher ASK-21 21144 Delivered 24/3/83. Ex BGA2886. ACCGS, RAF Syerston. Stored at Kemble, 5/90. Sold as BGA3679/GAM.

ZD647 Schleicher ASK-21 21147 Delivered 25/3/83. Ex BGA2887. ACCGS, RAF Syerston. RAF Kemble Stored, 7/89. Sold as BGA2887/ERH.

ZD648 Schleicher ASK-21 21148 Delivered 28/3/83. Ex BGA2888. ACCGS, RAF Syerston. Sold as BGA2888/ERJ.

ZD649 Schleicher ASK-21 21149 Delivered 29/3/83. Ex BGA2889. ACCGS, RAF Syerston. RAF Kemble Stored, 7/89. Sold as BGA3711/GBV.

ZD650 Schleicher ASK-21 21150 Delivered 29/3/83. Ex BGA2890. ACCGS, RAF Syerston. 618 VGS, West Malling, 2/88. RAF Kemble Stored, 7/89. Sold as BGA3705/GBP.

ZD651 Schleicher ASK-21 21151 Delivered 29/3/83. Ex BGA2891. ACCGS, RAF Syerston, 7/88. RAF Kemble Stored, 7/89. Sold as BGA3712/GBW.

ZD652 Schleicher ASK-21 21152 Delivered 29/3/83. Ex BGA2892. ACCGS, RAF Syerston. 618 VGS, West Malling, 2/88. RAF Kemble Stored, 7/89. Sold as BGA3673/GAF.

WE992
31st Jan 2009, 19:03
Further to my last post there were 2 Schempp-Hirth Janus C's bought by the ATC known as Kestrel TX1's

ZD974 Schemp Hirth Kestrel TX1 Ex BGA2875. Delivered 12/04/83. Coded SY. ACCGS, RAF Syerston. Sold as BGA2875.

ZD975 Schemp Hirth Kestrel TX1 Ex BGA2876. Delivered 17/04/83. Coded SZ. ACCGS, RAF Syerston. Sold as BGA2876

And 5 Single seat ASW19's known as the Valiant by the ATC.

ZD657 Schleicher ASW19 Valiant T.1 19348 Delivered 18/3/83. Ex BGA2773. Coded YW. ACCGS, RAF Syerston. 631 VGS, RAF Sealand, 2/88. 662, VGS RMB Arbroath, 2000. ACCGS

ZD658 Schleicher ASW19 Valiant T.1 19381 Delivered 7/4/83. Ex BGA2894. Coded YX. Delivered 7/04/83. ACCGS, RAF Syerston. 625 VGS, South Cerney, 7/86. 614 VGS, Weathersfield, 2/88. 631 VGS, RAF Sealand, 2000. ACCGS. Sold as BGA4849/JWW.

ZD659 Schleicher ASW19 Valiant T.1 19382 Delivered 8/4/83. Ex BGA2895. Coded YY. ACCGS, RAF Syerston. Sold as BGA2895/ERR.

ZD660 Schleicher ASW19 Valiant T.1 19383 Delivered 12/4/83. Ex BGA2896. Coded YZ. Delivered 12/04/83. ACCGS, RAF Syerston. 662 VGS, RMB Arbroath, 7/86. 626 VGS, RNAS Predanack, 2000.ACCGS. Sold as BGA2896/ERS.

ZD661 Schleicher ASW19 Valiant T.1 19384 Delivered 14/4/83. Ex BGA2897. ACCGS, RAF Syerston. Sold as BGA3956/HKK.S

Somebody please get us back on thread with some photos of the wooden era. Thanks.

Olly O'Leg
31st Jan 2009, 20:18
We've got LOADS of cine film of the Way We Were - awesome stuff that keeps being dragged out at reunions and VGS parties. Only problem is that it's probably starting to decay - anyone know a decent company that converts a fair amount of film to DVD or MPG without it costing an arm and a leg???

Top thread - I flew Ventures to start with at 642, but most of my stuff was on the Vigilant. More fun in those days it seems!

Cheers all. :ok:

FALCONS CRUTCH
31st Jan 2009, 23:14
What an excellent list of the - Air Cadet Gliders you have managed to produce, - many of the registrations I remember From - Kirton-in -Linsey, - Hailesland, - Cosford. Etc. I was an Instuctor at 633 GS. RAF. Cosford in the 1960s. George Crump was our CFI. & What a task -Master he was. is he still alive? - are there any other staff instructors around or Ex. pupils who remember 633. GS RAF Cosford ?

ACW599
1st Feb 2009, 00:08
I was an Instuctor at 633 GS. RAF. Cosford in the 1960s. George Crump was our CFI. & What a task -Master he was. is he still alive? - are there any other staff instructors around or Ex. pupils who remember 633. GS RAF Cosford ?<

George Crump became CO and I think he retired in 1978. His successor, John Bullock, is still in post. I believe George passed away relatively recently but unfortunately I don't have the details. The squadron is still going strong at Cosford with four mighty Vigilants and recently celebrated its 60th anniversary.

WE992
1st Feb 2009, 09:37
I remember George Crump, John Bullock and Alan Robinson. Other names that spring to mind are Rob Ruscue and Neil Withers. I never flew with 633 but next door at the Wrekin.

ACW599
1st Feb 2009, 10:11
> remember George Crump, John Bullock and Alan Robinson. Other names that spring to mind are Rob Ruscue and Neil Withers. I never flew with 633 but next door at the Wrekin<

The Wrekin is also still going strong. Neil is still with us, as was Rob Ruscoe until recently -- both fine aviators and gentlemen.

WE992
1st Feb 2009, 18:14
Anybody out there flown T.21 WB981 and have any photos of her in ATC use?

FALCONS CRUTCH
1st Feb 2009, 18:29
Thanks for the up date on George Crump - I am very sorry to learn he,s joined the Sqd. in the skies, he was quite a character. Dusting all the cob-webbs off my old logbooks - many names I am starting to remember. -
Alan Robinson
Geoff Robinson
George Potter
Alan Mc Lelland-Brown
Rocket Stevenson
Alan Skitt
Bernard Hunt
Laurie Walker

And a few more - All were good Instructors . - Do'es any one know if they are still around?
I am very pleased to hear 633 Sqd. is still going stong , - Also the Wrekin Club

Arclite01
2nd Feb 2009, 08:39
Here's the first one....................

<a href="http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu167/Arclite01/?action=view&current=618VGS.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu167/Arclite01/618VGS.jpg" border="0" alt="618 VGS"></a>

621andy
2nd Feb 2009, 08:44
:}Arclite01-Erm where?!

Tiger_mate
2nd Feb 2009, 09:37
Arclite: Allow me.....
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu167/Arclite01/618VGS.jpg

Arclite01
2nd Feb 2009, 10:58
so what did I do wrong ??


Got a whole bundle of others to post

I am middle of back row by the way..............


Arc :-)

pulse1
2nd Feb 2009, 11:43
WE992,

Anybody out there flown T.21 WB981 and have any photos of her in ATC use?

I see that I flew in WB981 with F/O Pond at Swanton Moreley in August 1970. I was on my C Cat course and had two aerotows in 981. The course could not be completed because the winch broke down and we could not cover cable breaks. It did result in having a couple of aerotows in a T31 as well (WT869 and WT915).

Sorry I do not have any photos.

Arclite01
2nd Feb 2009, 14:36
So lets try again................

Some others

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu167/Arclite01/Manston1964CadetMk3Prefect.jpg

Manston 1964

Arc

Arclite01
2nd Feb 2009, 14:40
And another..........................

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu167/Arclite01/Manston1964NorthernGrass.jpg

Rudimentary cockpit or what..........:}

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu167/Arclite01/Manston-Allout.jpg

Al Out !! - Manston 1964....................

Great stuff !!

Arc

Arclite01
2nd Feb 2009, 14:55
Old soldiers never die - they simply fade away.................

Kenley 1987

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu167/Arclite01/WT913Kenley1987.jpg

perfect end to a perfect day - Kenley Lincoln run - 1988

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu167/Arclite01/PerefectEnd-PerfectDayKenleyLincoln.jpg

Glider graveyard 66 Cadet Mk3 and 34 Sedberghs in a hangar for sale (bird droppings included, sold as seen) - RAF Syerston 1986

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu167/Arclite01/Whereoldglidersgotodie-Syerston1986.jpg

Enjoy guys - and weep a bit..........

Arc :{

MAINJAFAD
2nd Feb 2009, 16:09
So lets try again................

Some others
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu167/Arclite01/Manston1964CadetMk3Prefect.jpg

Manston 1964
Arc

Flew in 913 while doing my 2nd ATC gliding proficiency course at 614 VGS at Weathersfield in Aug 83 after my first course at Syerston (in the Venture) got snowed out in the March of that year. Also flew in WT917 and WE790 on that course, Solo'ed in WT917 (later heard it was in private hands in the Midlands after a spell in storage at Doncaster Aeroventure).

BEagle
2nd Feb 2009, 17:12
I never flew gliders with the Space Cadets as our school only had a CCF(Army) section. But I did fly the T21 with the RAFGSA and with a civilian club, as well was the T31 and the Tutor. A couple of trips in a T49 Capstan and a T42 Eagle as well.

That cockpit photo of the 'Mark 3' brings back memories - I can almost remember the smell of wood and glue etc!

The ATC continue to be an excellent recruiting tool for the RAF and long may they do so! But somehow I think that the current SLMG takes some of the 'fun' away - no heaving cables and gliders about at launch points, for example!

I was once told that the T21 was based on the Grunau Baby, with obviously a wider cockpit and larger wingspan. True? Or tall story?

By the way, whatever happened to the 'Iron Chicken' - the Slingsby T53 which was supposed to re-equip the Space Cadets at the end of the 1960s?

airborne_artist
2nd Feb 2009, 17:24
BEags wrote:

But somehow I think that the current SLMG takes some of the 'fun' away

Eleven VGSs have the Viking (http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/vikingt1.cfm), no donk on the front of that. Sixteen VGSs have the Vigilant (http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/vigilantt1.cfm) SLMG.

Arclite01
2nd Feb 2009, 18:17
Beags

Slingsby T53 - well it goes something like this................

Slingsby wanted to expand into metal aeroplanes and came up with the constant cord, all metal T53 as their first metal sailplane - told the ATC it was exactly what they wanted - cheap, easy to manufacture, easy to repair (RAF had plenty of tin bashers in those days) and produced XV951 as a prototype for the RAF to test - It was a pig !! with a taildragger config so the nose did not go down for easy of crew egress, a sprung undercarriage with duff springs, a pig to rig (the wings weighed a ton and were very unwieldy to move especially in the wind), it handled like a dog (poor control loads and balance) and to cap it all it spun like a top and was not easy to recover. After it had been 'handled' by the RAF a few times including investigation of the spinning characteristics they found that the wing skins were ripping around the rivet holes (apparently they had not been 'dimpled' before assembly) and the skins were removed to be replaced they found all the joints had been dry assembled !!

All in all a right dog. It's ground handling left much to be desired and the canopies were hard to shut and open. The RAF declined the product on the grounds of safety (spins were very iffy and not suited to low time first solo pilots in the circuit off a winch launch to 1000' approx) and general handling.

So what happened - Slingsby got the T53 back and it was re-engineering via some jig mods as the YS-53 Sovereign - a civilian version of the T53 - still a dog of an aeroplane with very few of the deficiencies fixed. Not many were made/sold and I think production ceased quite early on........... we derigged our last one with a big copper hammer...............

My source - Flt/Lt John Wynch (R.I.P.) from ACCGS who did the tests - I had mentioned it to him while I was on my instructors course at Syerston and the next day he brought in all his pictures and handling reports he had written - what a top bloke !!!

In case no one knows what we are talking about here - see picture below:

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu167/Arclite01/t53.jpg

Sometimes you just have a lucky escape :}


Arc

WE992
2nd Feb 2009, 18:40
Seeing the gliders lined up for sale at Syerston brings back memories. It was a sight never to be forgotten but sad.

MAINJAFAD
2nd Feb 2009, 20:13
Central Gliding School March 83

http://www.e-goat.co.uk/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3820&d=1196881232

Venture T1

http://www.e-goat.co.uk/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3819&d=1196881199

T21 Sedbergh

As stated earlier, Course got snowed out.

olddog
2nd Feb 2009, 22:07
http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2051/28/52/1397285526/n1397285526_30227997_8376.jpg

olddog
2nd Feb 2009, 22:25
http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2051/28/52/1397285526/n1397285526_30228007_4348.jpg

Result of a cable landing on glider. The winch operator tried to wind in the cable to make it fall short of the glider rather than stopping the winch.
As a result the cable was moving at full speed when it hit - a very effective saw!!



http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2051/28/52/1397285526/n1397285526_30228008_4570.jpg

Off for a solo in "The Barge"

Edited to remove duplicate picture

Radley
2nd Feb 2009, 22:32
I completed a Pre Pilots course at Spittlegate in 1975 during one launch on the base leg actually flying backwards. Quite an easy circuit to fly as I remember, but cycling up the hill was a bit of a bugger.

WE992
3rd Feb 2009, 18:50
Interesting photo of WT913. It was rebuilt and flew again before passing into private hands as BGA3239 and is preserved by Aervoventure at Doncaster.

Arclite01
3rd Feb 2009, 19:50
WT913 was mine !!!

never knew it had been cut in half though

:}

ACW367
3rd Feb 2009, 21:52
Although I was an C Cat instructor with the Air Cadets for 8 years, that was in the glass age on Vikings. However I then flew with bannerdown at Keevil and flew the Barge a number of times and got an autotow around the airfield perimeter in Grasshopper XA240.

Happy days

Oddsoft
4th Feb 2009, 20:27
Here's a very young Oddsoft off on his second solo at Swanton Morley in 1967 after a week under the tutelage of Dougie King:

http://www.oddsoft.co.uk/Resources/solo.jpg

I ended up instructing in the early 70s at West Malling when Gerry Fuller was boss. Oh the memories of Ex-lax sanwiches, exploding winches, lighting petrol in the hangar door runners to try and melt the ice, expeditions to the North Pole etc etc, normally with the late great John Downs involved somehow.

Fitter2
5th Feb 2009, 14:26
If anyone has a photo of Cadet Mk III ser WT919 I would appreciate it.

I am assembling a collection of gliding photos of various things I have flown since my A&B at Kirton Linsey on March 7th 1960 in that one.

Arclite01
6th Feb 2009, 16:01
I'll post some more this weekend......................

Have found a whole bundle

Arc

WE992
6th Feb 2009, 18:15
Briliant I look forward to seeing them. I'm still hoping that sombody will post a photo of Mk3 XA310.

spannersatKL
6th Feb 2009, 20:34
Oddsoft
Remember Weat Malling and 618 the 'Royal College of Gliding' I think the sign said on the door......my first ever flight was in the Barge there, with John Downs in the right seat....hooked ever since.....saw the same machine think it was XN186 here in the sunny sticks the other year at Shipdham Gliding Club....8 Ball Soaring.....so had to send my own son off for his first glider flight in it....bloody brilliant times at West Malling in the 70s...remember the Oly 2b.....and the exlax sandwiches....a certain Mr. Buckles I believe involved in both......an attempt by half a dozen of us to go back for a squadron dance one Saturday evening by borrowing the Moggie 1000 that was left in the hangar.........got as far as the Startled Saint, tried to bump start it going down the hill in to the village, and then the long push all the way back....up the hill!!!

Became a Staff Cadet at Manston good old 617.....more great times!! Learnt how to drive, how awful Margate can be in February and did lots of wonderful gliding...bloody brilliant way to spend yer yoof!

henry crun
6th Feb 2009, 21:19
Mention of the Oly sparked this memory.
While not a cadet glider, the best Oly 2b to ever wear the RAF roundel was the one in the foreground.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v712/crun9/Olly2B.jpg

Fitter2
6th Feb 2009, 21:44
Except (with geek hat on and anorak firmly zipped up) that's not an Oly 2b, it's one of the very few Oly 2As. Part of the RAFGSA fleet at Andover when Andy Gough was CFI, spun in at an air display, and rebuilt as his first glider by Ralph Jones (in his upstairs bedroom flat in Andover, until his landlady found out and evicted him).

621andy
6th Feb 2009, 22:27
WE992- I will I will, just be patient until I get home:ok:(and get a scanner, and get the pics scanned, and upload them...)...22 days to go:D

Ref Olys- I briefly owned an ex-GSA Oly 2B. Is there a list of which aircraft served where? The logbook for mine only went back to the start of it's civvy life. It's now doing service in Croatia...

henry crun
7th Feb 2009, 00:06
Thank you for the correction Fitter2, I should have consulted my log book before bursting into print.

longer ron
7th Feb 2009, 00:21
Somebody mentioned the YS53...here it is...http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv316/volvosmoker/YS53-1.jpg?t=1234039170

longer ron
7th Feb 2009, 21:27
I only have one very poor quality airborne shot of the YS53 (circa 1996)
I had a half share in it,she actually was very pleasant to fly but obviously overweight and not a good 'scratcher'.After thumbing through the logbook and seeing quite a few heavy landings recorded...I suggested to my syndicate partner that getting slow on finals was not a good idea,oh !! and the airbrakes were [email protected]
The non standard (K13 ?) canopy was probably fitted when the old girl was flipped over in the '87 gales.
The wings were so heavy we derigged in oct/nov and rigged in march (ooh me back :()
http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv316/volvosmoker/YS5314-1.jpg?t=1234041303

SirToppamHat
7th Feb 2009, 22:12
Many aircraft are said to look ungainly on the ground, but that YS53 looks even worse in the air! Perhaps it's tha lack of taper in the wings - I am not surprised it wasn't a good scratcher!

STH

longer ron
7th Feb 2009, 23:05
Hi STH
The T53/YS53 i did not think of as being particularly aerodynamically bad but they were effing heavy,which was enough to make 'scratching' difficult,also I am not sure if the YS53 had any control 'tweaks' compared to the original T53 but she was quite nice on the controls.
But i do agree that the 53 wing looks 'wrong',a swept forward 'hershey bar' wing is not pretty !!

Edit...comparing the YS53 photo against the early T53...looks like they increased the fin area quite substantially so presumably the early T53's had directional instability problems !!

regards B

longer ron
7th Feb 2009, 23:27
WE992
Just to add to your history of ATC Mk3's... I have WT913 in my old logbook 1970-72 at 613 Halton.

regards B

Fitter2
8th Feb 2009, 13:48
Edit...comparing the YS53 photo against the early T53...looks like they increased the fin area quite substantially so presumably the early T53's had directional instability problems !!

I operated a Slingsby T53 as Reading University project pilot on meteorological reasearch 1970/72. I recall (and my logbook appears to confirm) that it soared surprisingly well, and the handling, albeit rather heavier in roll than a Ka13, was fine (including sufficient rudder for full aileron, and full spin recovery at aft CofG). I don't know the reasons for the Yorkshire Sailplanes mods, but was not impressed by the build quality of the example I saw.

Grobling About
8th Feb 2009, 17:29
Ladies and Gentlemen, this thread seems to be creating some interest. Rather than hijack it, I'd just like to draw your attention to a thread which I have just started in Aviation History and Nostalgia - it seeks information, stories and photos on Syerston and 644 VGS - anything you could contribute would be most welcome.

Jim

WE992
8th Feb 2009, 18:27
So far on this thread we have mentioned Cadet Mk1 and 3, Sedburgh, Prefect, Swallow and Grasshopper, but the Eton TX1 has not had an airing yet. I know that 10 of these Elliott's built primary gliders almost identical to the German designed SG-38 were bought by the MOD. I would be interested to hear where they were based or see any photos of them. The only photo I have ever seen is of WP269.

WP262 Eon Eton TX1 Eon/P/030 W/O 1/61. Scrapped 1/61.

WP263 Eon Eton TX1 Eon/P/031 Delivered 10/7/51. W/O 27/3/52.

WP264 Eon Eton TX1 Eon/P/032 W/O, 5/6/70.

WP265 Eon Eton TX1 Eon/P/033 W/O at West Malling, 16/10/58.

WP266 Eon Eton TX1 Eon/P/034 W/O, 13/12/66. To RAFGSA as 337 , later 37 at RAF Dishforth

WP267 Eon Eton TX1 Eon/P/035 W/O, 15/8/69. Sold to BGA1625.

WP268 Eon Eton TX1 Eon/P/036 W/O, 14/4/61.

WP269 Eon Eton TX1 Eon/P/037 W/O, 13/12/66. To RAFGSA as 113 , later R13 at RAF Bicester. Sold as BGA3214/FEZ.

WP270 Eon Eton TX1 Eon/P/03861 GCF. 27MU, RAF Shawbury. To 8598M. Stored RAF Henlow. To RAF Museum Hendon. Mancherster Air & Space Museum. RAF Museum reserve collection, RAF Stafford.

WP271 Eon Eton TX1 Eon/P/039 W/O, 29/12/61.

Currently 3 of the aircraft survive, WP266 is stored near Dishforth, WP269 is airworthy at Keevil, and WP270 is stored by the RAF Museum.

kevmusic
8th Feb 2009, 19:26
Just a couple of observations from my log book, which show that from 1984 (when I joined) to 1986, at 617 VGS, Manston, I flew Mk3s WT910, WT917 and bizarrely, XE801, which your list shows as written off in 1978!:} WT910 and WT917 must therefore have 617 added to their lists of VGSs.

XN246 and T21 XN155 were also on the fleet.

621andy
8th Feb 2009, 22:33
Crabbo just sent me the following pics. Apologies for quality, but they do sum up life at 621 in the winter:}

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/621_VGS_1984.jpg

glider12000
9th Feb 2009, 00:30
Saw this video and thought you guys would be interested. I`m currently a glider pilot at Parham in Sussex, but previously flown at Lee on Solent and Dishforth. Had several flights in T21s, and in July had a 2 hour flight in the 21 at Lasham and was skipping along nicely at cloudbase, flew a nice little task for the T21 of Lasham - Basingstoke - Alton - Lasham. Great Fun.

foto en film (http://www.gliding4life.com/fotoenfilm.htm)

Dan Winterland
9th Feb 2009, 01:29
I flew the Eton at Bicester. It was dragged out on certain occaisions such as instructor courses. I seem to remember it was usually aerotowed as the winch launch often didn't get you enough height to make it back to the launch point! I aerotowed it to 3000'. one day - and I think I got back before the tug!

A 'Primary Streak' was where the pilot had to fly it naked! One day, a streaker who was famed for being a bit of a gobsh!te (to use a contemporary term) was towed by Andy Gough right across Bicester town at about 250' on a Saturday evening. Must have been a bit of a sight for the residents going out for a saturday night!



But my first experience of a 'primary'glider was on the school playing fields in our CCF's Grasshopper. I was deemed qualified to fly it as I had my gliding 'wings'. The flight was all of about ten seconds and was bloody scary. And it's the only flight in any of my logbooks which has the time 0:00 recorded.


Great vid of the Dutch T31. I loved the bit where the seagulls overtook it!

BEagle
9th Feb 2009, 07:42
A 'Primary Streak' was where the pilot had to fly it naked!

:eek: Did a certain hairy, orange creature ever do this?? I can just see the headlines in the Bicester Bugle or whatever their local rag is:

Alien alert! Chewbacca seen over Bicester!!

praesta2
11th Feb 2009, 18:03
As featured on the cover of "The Way We Were- Vol 1" - 1985 if I am correct

Duchess_Driver
11th Feb 2009, 20:40
WE992....

Small addition/correction to your K.21 unit histories:

ZD643, 644 and 645 were delivered to 645 on 1st July '83 -First entry in my logbook 3rd July '83. IIRC we only had three.

First entry for the Grobs was 21 November 1984. K21's went shortly after. Fairly certain, but not 100%, the K-21's went to West Malling thence I know not where.

As an aside, last entry for wooden in my 6748 is Mk III, XE796 was 7 Oct 1984 - but I remember I wasn't one of the last ones to fly them!.

HTH

DD

Cat5 in the Hat
11th Feb 2009, 21:21
618VGS at West Malling did indeed have K21s. Probably then to CGMF's pile at Syerston...

Arclite01
12th Feb 2009, 09:44
6 Vanguards (ASK-21) as I remember at 618VGS - we got all the K21's eventually apart from 2 which remained at Syerston. I always thought Catterick was small to operate the K21 on the eagle winch but West Malling was a fantastic site for the Air Cadet Operation, hard surfaces, large grass areas, big hangars, unobstructed approaches, uncontrolled airspace, no other major airfield users - no wonder they built all over it (wuckfits !!)

Personally I thought that the K21 and the current Grobs were chalk and cheese - the K21 was a fantastic aeroplane all round and the Grob a real plastic pig. Heavy controls, not enough rudder, ran out of elevator quickly with a heavy front cockpit load and insufficient rear trim. No suprise that Grob could deliver so many so quickly - they had a bundle of them sat on the shelf because the Germans did not want them........... and they know a thing or two about sailplanes.................. :-) - IIRC Group Captain J*** D******** was the agent for Grob at the time and may have been a powerful lobbyist

I always thought it was a shame Slingsby did not licence build the K21 like they did the T61 - that would have made production and delivery much faster. I was told that Schleicher would not lend out moulds anymore though becuase they had been stung by Centrair building the Pegasus 101 from ASW19 moulds and either undercutting prices or not paying licencing fees (can't remember which) - although that might just be rumour

Arc

WE992
12th Feb 2009, 10:25
I've listed the other types so here we go with the much loved T21.

T.21B VX275 C/n 539 Ex BGA572. Donated to 123 Gliding School. 612 VGS RAF Benson, 613 VGS, 623 VGS. Allocated 8884M. RAF Museum stored at RAF Wyton, RAF Cosford, RAF Stafford.

T.21B WB484 C/n 541 Ex BGA575. Purchased by 87 Gliding School, Weston Supermare, 9/6/49. Written off 13/5/52.

T.21B WB919 C/n 554 Ex BGA637 & G-ALLH. To RAF 14/4/49 . 611 VGS, Swanton Morley. Sold 20/8/85. To BGA3174.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB920 C/n 559 Written off 8/1/50. To BGA649. To WB920. Empire Test Pilots School. 645 GS, RAF Catterick, 1978. Stored at RAF Syerston. Sold 14/8/85. To BGA3221.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB921 C/n 560 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 28/11/51. Written off 1/6/60. SOC 8/6/60 Cat 5(s).

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB922 C/n 585 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 13/6/49. 615 VGS, RAF Kenley. 662 GS, Arbroath. 663 GS, Aberdeen Airport, 7/67. Sold 24/8/87. To BGA4366. To 621 VGS Syndicate, Hullavington Feb 04.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB923 C/n 586 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 28/6/49. Fuselage, SSK/FF/1085. 662 GS, Arbroath. CGS Store, RAF Syerston, 5/86. Sold 7/8/86. To BGA3292.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB924 C/n 587 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 28/6/49. Sold 20/10/87 to Axxes Aviation. To BGA3901.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB925 C/n588 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 5/7/49. 123 GS, 623 GS, White Walthan. Written off 24/1/58. SOC 8/4/58 as Cat 5(c). To RAFGSA AS 212.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB926 C/n 589 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 11/7/49. 92 GS, RAF Colerne. 633 GS, RAF Cosford. Sold 14/8/85 to North Devon G C. To BGA3520.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1WB927 C/n 590 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered7/49. 631 VGS, RAF Sealand 1973. Written off 30/12/83. Scrapped at Slingsby's.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB928 C/n 591 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 3/8/49. 68 GS, RAF St Athan. Written off 13/12/61. SOC 11/7/63 as Cat 5(c).

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB929 C/n 592 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 8/49. 83 GS, Aston Down. 621 GS, Weston Super Mare. 615 GS, Kenley. Destroyed in Hangar fire at Kenley 23/10/78.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB930 C/n 593 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 22/8/49. Written off 13/5/51. SOC 18/5/51 as Cat 5 (S).

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB931 C/n 594 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 6/9/49. 611 VGS, Swanton Morley. Written off 11/3/50. SOC 14/4/50 as Cat 5 (s).

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB932 C/n 595 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 6/9/49. CGS Store, RAF Syerston, 5/86. Sold 9/9/86.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB933 C/n 596 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 12/9/49. Sold 21/11/55, to BGA732.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB934 C/n 601 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 26/9/49. 611 VGS, Swanton Morley. 618GS. CGS Store, RAF Syerston, 5/86. Sold 19/8/86 to McClean Aviation, Rufforth. To BGA3385.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB935 C/n 602 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 27/9/49. 125 GS, Langley. Sold 19/8/86 to Axxes Aviation. To BGA4110.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB936 C/n 603 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 3/10/49. 183 GS, Woodford. Written off 19/3/50.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB937 C/n 604 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 1/6/50. 622 GS, Christchurch. 645 GS, RAF Catterick, 1982. 662 GS, Arbroath. CGS Store, RAF Syerston, 7/86. Sold 3/9/86.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB938 C/n 605 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 17/10/49. RAF Halton Glider Flt, 6/84. CGS Store, RAF Syerston. Sold 6/8/86.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB939 C/n 606 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 24/10/49. Sold 20/8/85 to Ailsa Soaring Club. To BGA3220.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB940 C/n. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 31/10/49. Participated in Battle of Britain flying display at Tangmere, 19/9/53. 615 GS, Kenley. Destroyed in hangar fire at Kenley 23/10/78.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB941 C/n 608 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 31/10/49. 126 GS, Booker. Sold 20/8/85. To BGA3219.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB942 C/n 609 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 7/11/49. 84 GS, 624 GS, Exeter. 626 GS. ACCGS, RAF Syerston. Sold 21/8/86.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB943 C/n 610 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 11/49. 625 GS, RAF South Cerney, 5/74 - 8/76. Sold 1/11/83. To BGA2941.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB944 C/n 611 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 22/11/49. 622 GS, Christchurch. 622 GS, Old Sarum, 1974. 622 VGS, Upavon. Sold 7/5/85. To BGA3160.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB945 C/n 612 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 29/11/49. 122 GS, 613 GS RAF Halton. Written off 26/7/58. SOC 30/7/58 as Cat 5( c ). To RAFGSA as 242. To BGA1254.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB946 C/n 613 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 5/12/49. 631 VGS, RAF Sealand. Sold 16/1/86.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB947 C/n 614 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 13/12/49. 634 GS, RAF St Athan. Sold 20/8/85. To BGA3230.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB948 C/n 615 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 28/12/49. 622 GS, Christchurch. Written off 15/8/65. To RAFGSA as 360. To BGA1521.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB955 C/n 616 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 2/1/50. Written off 8/1/50. To BGA649.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB956 C/n 617 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 2/1/50. Written off 15/4/55. SOC 18/4/55 as Cat 5 (s).

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB957 C/n 618 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 9/1/50. Written off 31/7/50.To BGA662, 19/3/51. To RAFGSA as 120 at Linton on Ouse. To BGA2720EJJ.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB958 C/n 619 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 11/10/50. Sold 21/8/86 to Ailsa Soaring Club. To BGA3243.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB959 C/n 620 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 1/50. 625 GS, RAF South Cerney, 9/71 - 8/76. Sold 31/10/83. To BGA2975.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB960 C/n 621 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 23/1/50. 645 VGS, RAF Catterick, 1983. CGS Store, RAF Syerston, 12/87. Sold 22/10/87 to Axxes Aviation.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB961 C/n 622 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 6/2/50. 106 GS, RAF Henlow. 661 VGS Kirknewton. Sold 22/10/87 to Axxes Aviation. To BGA4856.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB962 C/n 623 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 8/2/50. Sold 25/6/87. To BGA3836.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB963 C/n 624 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 20/2/50. 616 VGS, RAF Henlow. 636 VGS, Swansea, 1/86. Sold 2/9/87 to Southern Sailplanes. T

.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB964 C/n 625 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 20/2/50. To Slingsby for repair. Destroyed by fire at Kirbymoorside 18/11/68.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB965 C/n 626 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 27/2/50. Written off 5/4/54 as Cat 5( c ) .

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB966 C/n 627 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 2/3/50. Cat 5c, SOC 23/8/62. To RAFGSA as 314.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB967 C/n 628 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 7/3/50. 82 GS, St Merryn. Written off 21/5/64. To RAFGSA as 338. To BGA1352.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB968 C/n 629 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 16/3/50. 31 GS, Unsworth, 1950. Written off 19/2/51.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB969 C/n 630 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 27/3/50. Written off 21/1/58. SOC 29/1/58 as Cat 5(s). To RAFGSA as 247. To BGA2036.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB970 C/n 631 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 27/3/50. Written off at RAF Halton 16/8/71.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB971 C /n 632 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 20/4/50. Sold 13/12/85. To BGA3324.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB972 C/n 633 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 28/8/54. 611 VGS, Swanton Morley. 645 GS , RAF Catterick, 1965. ? GS RAF Debden 9/73. 662 GS, Arbroath. CGS Store, RAF Syerston, 5/86. Sold 3/9/86.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB973 C/n 634 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./3588/c.b.9a. Delivered 11/10/50. 617GS, RAF Hendon. 624 VGS, RAF Chivenor, 1971. 634 GS, RAF St Athan. Sold 22/10/87 to Axxes Aviation. To BGA4135.

More to follow.

WE992
12th Feb 2009, 10:37
T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB992 C/n 660 633 GS, RAF Cosford 1960. ACCGS Store. Sold 6/08/86. To BGA3492.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WG496 C/n 663 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./5048/c.b.9c. DD 19/4/51. RAF Halton Glider Flt, 6/84. CGS Store, RAF Syerston, 5/86. Sold 6/8/86. To BGA3243.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WG497 C/n 664 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./5048/c.b.9c. DD 2/5/51. RAF Finningley, 9/71. Sold 20/8/85.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WG498 C/n 665 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./5048/c.b.9c. DD 4/6/51. Sold 21/8/86.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WG499 C/n 666 RAF. Contract No 6/Acft./5048/c.b.9c. DD 26/10/51. 645 VGS RAF Middleton St George, 9/58. 612GS. Sold 29/8/85. To BGA4707.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WJ306 C/n 654 617 GS RAF Hendon, (9/64). 626 GS. CGS Store, RAF Syerston, 5/86. Sold. To BGA3240.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 XN146 C/n 1150 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. Sold 6/4/63. To BGA1110. Wrecked c.1975.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 XN147 C/n 1151 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. Written off 1/9/66. To RAFGSA as 369. To BGA1482. T

.21B Sedburgh TX1 XN148 C/n 1152 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. Sold. To BGA3287.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 XN149 C/n 1153 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. Written off 17/8/66.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 XN150 C/n 1154 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. CGS Store, RAF Syerston, 5/86. Sold. To BGA3774.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 XN151 C/n 1155 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. 634 GS, RAF St Athan. Sold. To BGA3235.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 XN152 C/n 1156 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. 616 GS. Written off at Halesland 12/7/60.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 XN153 C/n 1157 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. Written off 6/7/62. To RAFGSA as 313. To BGA2024.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 XN154 C/n 1158 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. Written off 20/4/64. To RAFGSA as 333. To BGA1465.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 XN155 C/n 1159 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. 617 GS, RAF Hendon. 617VGS, RAF Manston 84 - 86. Sold. To BGA4833.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 XN156 C/n 1160 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. 624 GS, Exeter. 633 GS. Sold. To BGA3250.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 XN157 C/n 1161 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. 186 GS, Hawarden. 631 GS, Harwarden. 631 VGS, RAF Sealand. 635 GS Burtonwood. Sold. To BGA3255.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 XN183 C/n 1162 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. Written off 22/8/63. To RAFGSA as 318. To BGA1354.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 XN184 C/n 1163 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. Written off 29/4/64. To RAFGSA 339,

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 XN185 C/n 1164 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a., 633VGS, 635 VGS, Burtonwood. 643 VGS. 644 VGS, RAF Syerston, 7/86. Instructional use as 8942M. To BGA4077. RAF Museum Reserve Collection, Stafford,

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 XN186 C/n 1165 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. Sold. To BGA3905.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 XN187 C/n 1166 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. 662 GS, Arbroath. Stored 4 MGSP, RAF Dishforth, 7/86. Sold.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 XN188 C/n 1167 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. Written off 7/9/63. To BGA1588.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 XN189 C/n 1168 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. Sold 27/3/63. To BGA1144.

Additional information as to the individual glider histories is welcome as always.

WE992
12th Feb 2009, 10:53
T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB974 C/n MH001 Built by Martin Hearn Ltd in 1949. Delivered 21/10/49 to Axxes Aviation. Sold 22/10/87. To BGA3423.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB975 C/n MH002 Built by Martin Hearn Ltd in 1949. Delivered 31/10/50. 662 GS, Arbroath. 661 GS, Kirknewton. Sold 21/08/86. To BGA3288.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB976 C/n MH003 Built by Martin Hearn Ltd in 1949. Delivered 18/11/49. 642 GS, RAF Rufforth, 11/50. 611 VGS, Swanton Morley. Sold 22/08/85. To BGA3297.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB977 C/n MH004 Built by Martin Hearn Ltd in 1949. Delivered 25/11/49. 644GS, RAF Spittlegate. Written off 19/05/57. SOC 21/5/57 as Cat 5( c ).

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB978 C/n MH005 Built by Martin Hearn Ltd in 1949. Delivered 1/12/49. 611 VGS, Swanton Morley. 616 VGS, RAF Henlow. Sold 12/08/85. To BGA3189.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB979 C/n MH006 Built by Martin Hearn Ltd in 1949. Delivered 14/12/49. 31GS RAF Unsworth 1950. 645 VGS RAF Middleton St George, 9/58. 645 GS RAF Catterick, 5/60 - 1983. Sold 22/10/87 to Axxes Aviation.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB980 C/n MH007 Built by Martin Hearn Ltd in 1949. Delivered 29/12/49. 616 VGS, RAF Henlow. 626 VGS, RNAS Predanack. Sold 6/08/86. To BGA3290.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB981 C/n MH008 Built by Martin Hearn Ltd in 1949. Awaiting collection 30/12/49. Allocated to 42GS, Bramcote, later Cosford, 3/01/50. Declared cat 4R following accident, 4/09/50. To Slingsby for repair 20/09/50. Allocated to 9MU RAF Cosford. 13/12/50. 125GS, Langley, 6/06/51. Cat 4R after flying accident, 20/06/52. To Slingsby 3/07/52. Gliding Instructors School RAF Detling 20/10/52. Declared cat 4R after accident 8/02/53. Returned to Slingsby 20/03/53. Allocated to 9MU RAF Cosford 25/05/53. Transferred to 10 MU, RAF Brize Norton, 2/01/56. to Gliding Instructors School Hawkinge 19/03/58. 1GC Swnton Morley 8/12/61. 611GS Swanton Morley 8/08/77. 635GS Burtonwood 24/04/78. Sold 7/01/86 to MJ Lake, Pulborough. To BGA3238.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB982 C/n MH009 Built by Martin Hearn Ltd in 1950. Delivered 13/10/50. Written off 31/01/54. SOC 16/2/54 as Cat 5( c )

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB983 C/n MH010 Built by Martin Hearn Ltd in 1950. Delivered 27/1/50. 633 GS, RAF Cosford. ACCGS, RAF Syerston. 634 VGS, RAF St Athan. Sold 20/08/85. To BGA3175.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB984 C/n MH011 Built by Martin Hearn Ltd in 1950. Delivered 9/2/50. Written off 23/03/56.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB985 C/n MH012 Built by Martin Hearn Ltd in 1950. Delivered 20/2/50. 105 GS, Cambridge. 611 VGS, Swanton Morley. 645 GS, RAF Catterick 1960 - 1983. Sold 07/85.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB986 C/n MH013 Built by Martin Hearn Ltd in 1950. Delivered 21/2/50. 617 GS, RAF Hendon 31/3/68. 617 GS, RAF Bovingdon. Sold 9/09/86. To BGA3265.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB987 C/n MH014 Built by Martin Hearn Ltd in 1950. Delivered 28/2/50. Fuselage SSK/FF/1161. 611 VGS, Swanton Morley. 662 GS, Arbroath. Stored 4 MGSP, RAF Dishforth, 7/86. CGS Store, RAF Syerston, 12/87. Sold 22/10/87 to Axxes Aviation. To BGA3338.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB988 C/n MH015 RAF. Contract No KF/2R/04/C.B.25 a. Delivered 7/3/50. Written off 29/4/64.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB989 C/n MH016 Built by Martin Hearn Ltd in 1950. Delivered 21/3/50. 616 VGS, RAF Henlow. 635GS Burtonwood. Sold 13/12/85 to Leeds University G C. To BGA3195.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB990 C/n MH017 Built by Martin Hearn Ltd in 1950. Delivered 30/3/50. 89 GS, 622 GS, Christchurch. 622 GS, Old Sarum. 1963. Sold 16/04/85. To BGA3148.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB991 C/n MH018 Built by Martin Hearn Ltd in 1950. Delivered 5/4/50. 622 GS Christchurch 1963. 621 VGS, Weston Super Mare. CGS Store, RAF Syerston, 5/86. Sold 9/09/86. To BGA3264.

T.21B Sedburgh TX1 WB993 C/n MH019 Built by Martin Hearn Ltd in 1950. Delivered 2/6/50. 622 GS Christchurch 1963. 635 GS Burtonwood. 631 VGS, RAF Sealand. Sold 7/01/86. To BGA3225.

pulse1
12th Feb 2009, 14:17
I'm glad I didn't know about WB981's chequered history when I covered spins and unusual attitudes on my C cat course at Swanton Moreley.

FrustratedFormerFlie
12th Feb 2009, 15:37
Sounds lie Alan Pond, later of GGS at Syerston.

From my old memories locker:
A+B Certs RAF Sealand with Fg Off Pete Eyes. 'Local character' Jim Chaplin
CI (commissioned in '82) flying T21 and T31 at 663 VGS Kinloss 1978-86. Boss was Reg Weston, then Lawrie Beaton (legend). C Cat at Syerston with Lloyd Poulton (quote 'Ladley, why are you walking loik thet, you uke loik eweve got a pineapple up yer ar£e!'), B Cat with Bruce 'Strap yourself into the bollocking chamber' Tapson
'86 converted to Ventures. B Conversion
c '89 converted again to Vigilants, A2 course with Lee Hood, awarded by Robin Miller (anecdote; tomato sauce bottle exploded over my flying kit at lunch just before waklking out for my A Cat FHT; Robin sagely pronounces "Shake and shake the ketchup bottle, none'll come - and then a lot'll")
Retired in '92 to spend more time with my own kids instead of other peoples' - but they were great times, fondly remembered through this thread.

Thanks!
Terry

FrustratedFormerFlie
12th Feb 2009, 18:43
You're right - ace bloke. Real 'down to earth glider pilot' if that isn't a contradiction in terms. He got his hands some rather more exotic RAF glider purchases later - I particularly remember a series of splendid trips with John in a Janus C at Portmoak

praesta2
13th Feb 2009, 11:28
Heartily agree - what a total gentleman he really was.

dwhcomputers
17th Feb 2009, 22:08
Looking in my log book from when I was stationed at Swanton Morley in the late 60s The T53B XV951 arrived at Swanton in May/June 1968 I had my first trip in it on the 21/6/68 with Duggie King I had a further 5 trips in it in August with Alan Pond and Robin Miller. The T53B was then lined up for a launch it was found that the ailerons’ were jammed solid . It was then found that the bare metal edges of the ailerons’ had bounced over the wing forming a solid lock. A sheet metal worker from Slingsbys came the next day and trimmed and inch or so of sheet metal off the ailerons’ using a pair of tin snips It seems the method of retrieval was also part of the problem To retrieve the T53B back to the launch point two tubes (one in each wing ) with a single sprung wheel were inserted into holes in the wing and then the tail was hooked onto a small dolly connected to a land rover and the aircraft was towed backwards, the trainee sitting in the front seat was suppose to hold the stick steady to stop the controls from crashing onto the stops. Originally Slingsbys said we could tow it backwards at up to 30mph!!
I believe that the staff were not happy with the repair and the machine disappeared to Slingsbys until November just before the fire. My next trips are recorded with Alan Pond and Ian Macleod the 15/11/68. No courses were normally held in January each year (overhaul of equipment) but I had an aero tow in the T53B with Duggie King on the 23/01/69 when we looped it as well as doing some spins and stalls. Shortly after that the aircraft left Swanton and I believe the order for a further 39 was cancelled.

FrustratedFormerFlie
17th Feb 2009, 22:28
I suspect Air Cadet Gliding as a whole dodged a bullet when they dropped the T53 plan!

longer ron
18th Feb 2009, 21:39
I suspect Air Cadet Gliding as a whole dodged a bullet when they dropped the T53 plan! Absolutely Agreed...it was totally unsuitable shipyard engineering.Great fun that the T21's and 31's were ...they could have been replaced by K13's in the 60's or 70's.
K13's / K21's ...great trainers !!

Frelon
19th Feb 2009, 07:53
I heard rumours that they considered the Blanik before embarking on the T53 debacle, but excluded the idea because they (the MOD) wanted to buy British!!

It was available and a very good training aircraft. Liked the sprung wheel and flaps!

Arclite01
19th Feb 2009, 10:01
My thoughts

The K13 would have been the best in my view since it could be launched on the Eagle winch - had great visibility - was easily maintainable/repairable by the then MGSP organisation, coped well with short and rough fields - had no fatigue life - handled well, benign stall and spin and was affordable.

The L13 is a truely great sailplane but is weaker in all the areas listed above (apart from handling where IMHO it's superior to the K13) - and as you point out - why would we buy stuff from the then WARPAC countries ??

And the initial stimulus for purchase of GRP gliders for the Air Cadets was to soak up a budget underspend as I remember - at the end of a FY. Prior to that we just never seemed to have available cash at the right time...................

Right now I still think the Venture offered the best value to Air Cadet gliding in terms of number of launches versus number of trained cadets verus cost versus supportabilty versus effectiveness as an organisation (urgh :O)

Arc

Arclite01
19th Feb 2009, 10:03
and actually the K13 could still easily be in service today............ cost effectively

although reference to my earlier comment on WARPAC - the RAFGSA brought more than a few L13's !!!

Arc

621andy
19th Feb 2009, 10:18
Had many a happy hour in both the rattling creaking tin torpedo and the K13- although I prefer the Blanik as there's a bit more room in it(at least in the front):ok:

As to the funding for the glass ships, the rumour I heard was that it was dosh left over from the Falklands escapade that had to be spent. Certainly the timing fitted at the time.

10 days and then I'll be home. Just bidding for a photo scanner on ebay as I write, so look out for the pics:E

longer ron
19th Feb 2009, 12:53
Yes...nice though the 'Blanket' was (at least from the front,nice tin armchair) in my view the K13 was the outstanding all round trainer.
I have flown both types from both seats,including 'oilcanning' round the skies in zimbabwe 25 years ago in Blankets.

FrustratedFormerFlie
19th Feb 2009, 15:25
What I found disconcerting about the Blanik was the way it made noises like somebody coarse-tuning a double-bass on the entry to a loop. There would be this 'doing doing doing' noise, rising in pitch as G came on, and then descending again is it backed off.

dwhcomputers
21st Feb 2009, 16:01
Remember A*** G**** doing his hanger flight in the Blanick which included a loop, a spin , a stall etc before running straight at the hanger doors which were closed at Bicester in the late 60s(Always stopped a foot short )what a pilot and a gentleman

Buster11
21st Feb 2009, 21:55
A bit earlier than the '80s, but this picture is from a B course at HCGIS at Detling which I was on as a CCF cadet in 1952, so it's certainly pre-glass. Among the instructors were Meddings and Derek Piggott ,who is still gliding and who I met this week at an RAeS lecture.

Anyhow, the cadet in the picture was a Liverpudlian whose name I forget, perhaps fortunately. As far as I recall he was flying a T31 and had a cable break or anyway was lower than desirable. For some reason,http://s636.photobucket.com/albums/uu90/detling1952/?action=tageditmany as we watched, he turned downwind, and disappeared over the hump in the middle of the airfield; shortly afterwards there was a God-awful clang. We proceded to the site of the noise which turned out to be a large metal-clad hangar, through the open doors of which our hero had either flown or slid, finally stopping when he hit the far wall. Unfortunately, propped against the wall, were the wings of the Sedbergh in which Piggott had earlier set an altitude record with a frozen ATC cadet as passenger, and which helped to soften the impact of the sharp end of the T31 with the hangar wall. The T31 driver survived uninjured but chastened.

Buster11
21st Feb 2009, 22:01
http://s636.photobucket.com/albums/uu90/detling1952/http://s636.photobucket.com/albums/uu90/detling1952/

Apologies for finger trouble there. The Detling image went a.w.o.l. but should now appear.

Tiger_mate
21st Feb 2009, 22:33
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu90/detling1952/detling0002.jpg
There is a knack to getting these up and they may be too big for pprune.

Buster11
22nd Feb 2009, 16:00
Thanks, Tiger. You clearly havre the knack that evaded me.

FrustratedFormerFlie
26th Feb 2009, 15:46
Gotta be a caption competition on that one!

miles magistrate
26th Feb 2009, 19:09
Did any of you steely eyed aviators ever fly the "Barges" at Cranwell in the Mid 60's?

T-21
1st Mar 2009, 09:19
Yes, I was only 13 and managed 60 launches in T-21 WB923/WG498 around 1966/8. The flight had an Oly 2b,2 Tutors XE760/VM648 and a Grunau 3. My father did aero-tows with a Chipmunk at weekends with Sqdn/Ldr Doc Smith. Boss was Group Captain Max Bacon . My ATC F3822 covered my flying and also Varsity flying there . Never managed a trip in the JP. Also had rides in the Tiger Moths and Austers with "Dicky" Dickinson a great all rounder. Remember lots of cadets Mike Drybanski,Chris Watson, Grant MacLeod,Martin Stoner,Al Bryan and Dick Coles. Happy days after flying at the Hare and Hounds ,Fulbeck.

astir 8
2nd Mar 2009, 09:39
Great thread Guys

If you want to know where your T21 or 31 is now (I never was in the Cadets so can't get to grips with "Mark III's" etc), see Richard Cawsey's site

Home Page (http://www.rcawsey.fsnet.co.uk)

then "slingsby production lists" T21's and T31's


My personal interest is that I fly T21 WJ 306 a lot (still!). It now lives at Oxford Gliding Club but spent most of its life at Predannack (626 VGS) and Halesland (621).

So if any of you want another go.......!

I'd post a photo but am too 'kin ignorant to know how....

or see Flickr: The OGC Photos Pool (http://www.flickr.com/groups/[email protected]/pool)

621andy
7th Mar 2009, 18:48
Ok chappies, the scanner has been under test;) Apologies for quality:O
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/App0017Kopie.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/App0017Kopie.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/App0016Kopie.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/File0010.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/XE791.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/File0007Kopie.jpg

And finally for now, one of the non-flying sports:E

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/File00062.jpg

621andy
7th Mar 2009, 18:59
And there's more:}

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/App0004.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/App0007.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/File0011.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/WB991.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/WT877.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/XA3081.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/XA308.jpg

And finally, one for Al;):ok:

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/XA310.jpg

621andy
7th Mar 2009, 19:08
Dropped in on 621 on friday and had a very nice time:}

3 trips in the 'Royal' Barge, and 2 solos in Al Staceys Prefect:ok::ok:- Finally got the full set! Barge, Mk3, Swallow and Prefect. Only the Grasshopper to go now...

Many thanks to everyone at 621 for the grand day out...I know you're all out there lurking;) See ya all later in the year! And thanks to Al for letting the boys play with your toys:}

Pics to follow when I find my USB cable....:oh:

WE992
7th Mar 2009, 19:51
621 Andy

Thanks. Adam C told me yesterday that you had sampled the delights of the Prefect. My day has been made twice today, your photo of XA310 and the fact that 614 have donated me a MK3 ground handling trailer!

cats_five
7th Mar 2009, 20:32
Saw a Grasshopper flying at our club back in january - if that was what we were shown when our ab initio group was taken to the hangers to see the gliders I suspect I might have walked out there and then!

Anyway, I took some photos:
Slingsby Grasshopper - a set on Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/sal-woo/sets/72157612188783006/)

We also have a T53 with roundels which flies regularly. Are photos of that required? I could oblige! :)

Finally yes, Centrair did 'borrow' some ASW19/ASW20 bits from Schleicher to make the Pegase, though the wings are completely different (much more flexible for one thing) than the originals. In my highly biased view (I own one) the Pegase is a delightful glider to fly, and comfortable in the rough before getting into wave proper. Thankfully my Pegase has a grey cockpit interior rather than the nasty pinky-beige that the other one at the club has.

WE992
7th Mar 2009, 20:37
Great to see that my old T.38 is taking to the skys again up at Portmoak.

cats_five
7th Mar 2009, 20:45
Ah - we have a previous owner here! Are you in contact with the current owner? (not me I hasten to add)

WE992
7th Mar 2009, 20:49
Indeed. He knows my phone number as he bought it from me along with a Skylark 3B

621andy
8th Mar 2009, 00:00
WE992-Great news about the trailer! I'm still sorting pics, so if there are any more of 310 I'll post them.

Meanwhile, here are a few from friday 6.3.09

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/IMG_64072.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/IMG_64382.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/IMG_6497.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/IMG_64112.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/IMG_63832.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/IMG_63882.jpg

621andy
8th Mar 2009, 00:09
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/IMG_6473.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/IMG_65032.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/IMG_6523.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/IMG_6531.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/IMG_65132.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/IMG_65332.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg244/621andy/IMG_6537.jpg

kevmusic
8th Mar 2009, 01:35
@621Andy - some beautifully atmospheric pics there. Almost make me long for a Barge again! :}

Seriously - some lovely looking contrasts. :ok: