GATWICK

[Skipness One Echo]

The question is: why is this system in use at some airport terminals with common departure areas, such as LHR-1 and LHR-5, but not at others, such as EDI, GLA, MAN-3, etc.?

LGW N and LGW S alongwith LHR T1 and LHR T5 are unique in that Flight Connections allows arriving passengers with onwards connections to pass through security and not immigration before arriving in the departure lounge. Hence photo reconciliation of all domestic passengers is in force to prevent undesirables just getting on the domestic flight and getting off elsewhere in the UK without having to show a passport.
This ability is not avaialable elsewhere in the UK, indeed one cannot simply walk out of the departure lounge at these airports unescorted, whereas you can elsewhere.

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "LGW N and LGW S alongwith LHR T1 and LHR T5 are unique in that Flight Connections allows arriving passengers with onwards connections to pass through security and not immigration before arriving in the departure lounge. Hence photo reconciliation of all domestic passengers is in force to prevent undesirables just getting on the domestic flight and getting off elsewhere in the UK without having to show a passport.
This ability is not avaialable elsewhere in the UK, indeed one cannot simply walk out of the departure lounge at these airports unescorted, whereas you can elsewhere."

Thanks for the info, Skipness One Echo.

[PIK3141]

SOE
Why do you say arriving in LHR T5 allows you to pass through security but not immigration ? I arrived BA from Hamburg and nearly missed my onward to GLA because flight connections DID take me through 2 dedicated immigration lines, neither of which was for EU passports and both of which were jammed by some non EU passport holder requiring 15 minutes of attention at the head of the line. UKBA ''service'' ?? Only made the GLA flight because it was half an hour late boarding. Such are the joys of LHR, even with BA straight through ticketing in T5.

[Skipness One Echo]

I live in London, I only ever had to use Flight Connections T3->T4 once very recently, and at no time did I show a passport.
I have not done the gig at T5!

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "SOE
Why do you say arriving in LHR T5 allows you to pass through security but not immigration ? I arrived BA from Hamburg and nearly missed my onward to GLA because flight connections DID take me through 2 dedicated immigration lines, neither of which was for EU passports and both of which were jammed by some non EU passport holder requiring 15 minutes of attention at the head of the line. UKBA ''service'' ?? Only made the GLA flight because it was half an hour late boarding. Such are the joys of LHR, even with BA straight through ticketing"

It may be the difference between an international-international transfer, as described by SOE, and an international-domestic one, where border control takes place at LHR and baggage claim/customs at the final (domestic) destination, provided that luggage is checked through. AFAIK, this is standard procedure in most countries where luggage can be checked through.

Obviously domestic-international and domestic-domestic would be unaffected by all this.

[adfly]

The last few posts would probably feel more at home in the HEATHROW thread!

[Steviec9]

Arrived as a domestic at LGW South Pier 1 yesterday. Slight wait for jetbridge, then off plane to be held en masse at gate entrance waiting for someone to come and man the photo id scan and issue the barcode on a piece of paper to each of us. Then around 100 of us walking up the half corridor to the domestic arrivals hall against the flow of outbound pax and navigating around the queue boarding at Gate 1. Generally LGW is hugely improved but the domestic arrivals set up is not exactly slick. Presume something better is in the offing with the redevelopment of Pier 1 given the not insignificant amount of domestic traffic? It's not badly managed, it just seems a bit 'clunky'.

[valfire]

Before anyone jumps the gun, please read on.

I have recently seen a map showing the location of the 'planned' second runway at Gatwick, south of the existing one. In 1969 I worked for BUA and saw a brochure that had been given to all employees on the occasion of the move to Gatwick from Croydon. This brochure included a map of the airport as it was then and also had a proposed additional runway. If my memory is correct, this had one end roughly at the current western (08) end running in a north-easterly direction, towards Horley.

Has anyone a copy of this or confirm what I saw was at that time correct? Obviously such a runway could not be constructed now, well I suppose it could, goodbye North Terminal, Hotels and some of Horley.

Look forward to seeing what this brings, if anything.

[carousel]

Currently at a BAA airport with a for sale sign at the gates, I can't help but wonder if it has made a difference (apart from the three hundred or more poor bu44ers that lost their jobs) to the remaining staff. have you lost out at all?

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "I traveled through LGW's North Terminal last Saturday afternoon. There was one queue for departures and it took 20 mins to get to the other side. I thought it was only meant to take a few minutes nowadays (or so they keep saying)! Of course everybody had to get their boarding passes out for a second time, so I suppose that's going to take a while.
It must be a nightmare when it's actually busy!!"

Had similar, but boarding pass looked at three times. Why does the chap by the conveyor belt need to see it? Surely he/she has enough to do reminding people to remove their coats, take their laptops out, etc., etc..

Could that be why a 5-minute procedure takes over 20?

Quote: "I have recently seen a map showing the location of the 'planned' second runway at Gatwick, south of the existing one. In 1969 I worked for BUA and saw a brochure that had been given to all employees on the occasion of the move to Gatwick from Croydon. This brochure included a map of the airport as it was then and also had a proposed additional runway. If my memory is correct, this had one end roughly at the current western (08) end running in a north-easterly direction, towards Horley.

Has anyone a copy of this or confirm what I saw was at that time correct? Obviously such a runway could not be constructed now, well I suppose it could, goodbye North Terminal, Hotels and some of Horley.

Wasn't the original plan for the 2nd rwy to be north of the current one?
Couldn't happen now, of course, because of LGW-North.


Quote: "Arrived as a domestic at LGW South Pier 1 yesterday. Slight wait for jetbridge, then off plane to be held en masse at gate entrance waiting for someone to come and man the photo id scan and issue the barcode on a piece of paper to each of us. Then around 100 of us walking up the half corridor to the domestic arrivals hall against the flow of outbound pax and navigating around the queue boarding at Gate 1. Generally LGW is hugely improved but the domestic arrivals set up is not exactly slick. Presume something better is in the offing with the redevelopment of Pier 1 given the not insignificant amount of domestic traffic? It's not badly managed, it just seems a bit 'clunky'."

Yes, have had that experience too, it is not good enough!

As it is a dedicated domestic pier (as at LHR-1) do the pax need to be segregated? Would a photo for departing pax (as at LHR-1) not be sufficient? The domestic pier is on two levels, could not arriving and departing pax be segregated by level if it is in fact necessary?

What sort of impression does it give of the UK's second biggest airport?

[adfly]

Peir 1 is getting knocked down and replaced pretty soon so that should only be an issue for a couple more years.

And some news (some has already been mentioned):

Royal Air Maroc resuming Casablanca (Their website says 4 weekly, Gatwick's says 3, both say 738's).

Flybe reducing GCI and JER to 4 daily over the winter (GCI on DH4 and JER on E175) INV also goes down to around 2 daily (E175).

Gatwick website says Air Nigeria stopped all flights on the 10th September.

These two are from Wiki (make what you want of them!) but:

Air Arabia Maroc to start Casablanca and Tangier from the end of October.

Air One to drop Milan Malpensa from the end of October. (Seems unusual for a popular winter route).

[Skipness One Echo]

Why does the chap by the conveyor belt need to see it? Surely he/she has enough to do reminding people to remove their coats, take their laptops out, etc., etc..
They took the human element away with the automated, scan the boarding card barriers. Guess what? Apparently someone jumped the barriers so now they have to manually double check every boarding card.
As it is a dedicated domestic pier (as at LHR-1) do the pax need to be segregated? Would a photo for departing pax (as at LHR-1) not be sufficient? The domestic pier is on two levels, could not arriving and departing pax be segregated by level if it is in fact necessary?
Actually Pier 1 is not a dedicated domestic pier, however that is its main use.

It's possible to walk for transit passengers to walk from the departure lounge to Pier 1, if you have not cleared customs and immigration, they need to prevent you walking out of domestic arrivals. Hence all arriving domestic passengers are photographed to make sure they, and no one else exits into the terminal. The pier IS on two levels, upstairs is international and Channel Islands arrivals and takes you to Immigration. Pier 1 is used for international departures as well, easyJet use Gate 2 and I have seen Gates 1 and 3 used by Jet2 as well. Do we have a timetable for its closure?

[jerhippo]

anyone know why there is 3 A330 Hong Kong Airlines at Gatwick if they have pulled out?

And why did they keep sending planes when 3 are stuck there?

[Charley B]

I read somewhere recently that they are hoping to do exec ad hoc charters from LGW...not sure if the crews have returned to Hong Kong?
The last A330 arrived here on 31/8 and they have suspended services from HK from 3/9

[ATIS]

So what happened to Air Nigeria?

[Charley B]

Nothing to do with LGW-problems with the airline itself apparently-a shame as it was such a busy route-all to do with the company itself sadly they may have ceased to trade?

[Keyvon]

New Spanish paper airline Hispania Airways is to launch flights to Granada, op. by Lithuanian carrier Avion Express, using A320 outfit.

Already bookable on their website.

New Air Arabia Maroc flights to Casablanca and Tangiers are confirmed and open for reservations.

It is also confirmed Air One is to cease Milan/Malpensa route by the end of the summer schedule, due to poor revenues on this sector, in spite of fairly good load factors registered. On the other hand, ZB has also dramatically reduced the number of flights (even to just 2-3 per week) offered for the same route. Seems like EZY is giving its competitors a hard time...

[jdcg]

Can't see Hispania lasting. Booking facility is not great and the prices are not cheap.

[True Blue]

BA to re-start Alc from March 13, 3 daily. On BA site now.

TB

[vctenderness]

Just looked but can only see the 3 per week from Heathrow.

[wiggy]

TBs correct, it was announced a few days back.

17 a week from March, 21 a week from July to September...

[MKY661]

On the other hand, ZB has also dramatically reduced the number of flights (even to just 2-3 per week) offered for the same route. Seems like EZY is giving its competitors a hard time...

Monarch look like they are now dropping MXP from all of their bases from November.

[Seljuk22]

AirOne cancel MXP (13 weekly) from 28th October
Monarch cancel MXP (6 weekly) from 5th November

Air Arabia Maroc launch CMN (3 weekly) and TNG (2 weekly) from 28th October

[adfly]

Meridiana will start Verona from 12th October, not sure of frequency/equipment yet though?

[BAladdy]

Meridiana will start Verona from 12th October, not sure of frequency/equipment yet though?

IG have begun to release for sale there VRN flights which are due start on 12th October . They will also at the same time make changes to there FLR service.

Flights are still being loaded into IG's booking system with the rest of there W13 flights expected to be released later this week. So further changes are possible to the W13 service

Florence

IG0355 FLR 07:50 LGW 09:00 319 D (Until 11/10)
IG0351 FLR 18:05 LGW 19:15 319 D (12/10 to 27/10)

IG0356 LGW 09:10 FLR 12:15 319 D (From 28/10)
IG0356 LGW 09:45 FLR 12:50 319 D (Until 27/10)
IG0352 LGW 18:05 FLR 19:15 319 D (Until 11/10)

Verona

IG0597 VRN 07:25 LGW 08:25 319 D (From 28/10)
IG0597 VRN 08:00 LGW 09:00 319 D (12/10 to 27/10)

IG0598 LGW 19:55 VRN 22:55 319 D (From 12/10)

[FRatSTN]

The new Verona route to Gatwick will no doubt be due to the Ryanair pull out, where all routes to Verona, including the Stansted service will be axed on 12 October.

[cornishsimon]

And no doubt the new IG service will also codeshare with BA like the others ?!

cs

[adfly]

I wonder if they will, BA already operate Verona out of Gatwick ~2/3 daily whereas Meridiana's other routes (Florence and Olbia) are not served by BA so the codeshare makes more obvious sense. I suppose we'll just have to see what happens.

[davidjohnson6]

From the timings it seems Easyjet and BA aim at people living in London going to Verona for work / play. Meridiana seem to be aiming squarely at those living near Verona making a trip to London. How much would a codeshare really give to either BA or IG ?

[ayroplain]

Went through LGW at the weekend and it seems they have stopped the nonsense of asking pax to show their boarding passes at the security conveyor belts. (South Terminal, anyway)

[bunatern]

vueling starting twice daily BCN flights starting 31st mar.

[adfly]

Quite a lot of competition on that route next Summer then!

Easyjet - 42 weekly
BA - 21 weekly
Vueling - 14 weekly
Monarch - 11 weekly

Up to 13 daily flights (Even Heathrow only has up to 8!) in the peak months, wonder if that can be pulled off?

[edi_local]

Went through LGW at the weekend and it seems they have stopped the nonsense of asking pax to show their boarding passes at the security conveyor belts. (South Terminal, anyway)

I didn't get that at the North Terminal last month either, now that I think about it. I never saw the point in that. You've just shown your boarding card to someone at the front who has made sure you are in the right place and are authorised to travel, but then you need to fish it out again about 2 minutes later.

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "Went through LGW at the weekend and it seems they have stopped the nonsense of asking pax to show their boarding passes at the security conveyor belts. (South Terminal, anyway) "


Quote: "I didn't get that at the North Terminal last month either, now that I think about it. I never saw the point in that. You've just shown your boarding card to someone at the front who has made sure you are in the right place and are authorised to travel, but then you need to fish it out again about 2 minutes later."

There is no point (experienced it in LGW-north in september) it justs delays and inconveniences everyone. Very pleased it has been stopped.

[Sky Wave]

So anyone can just wander airside now?

That sounds sensible, perhaps we should stop doing bag searches at security too because it does cause a bit of a delay. :ugh:

[davidjohnson6]

Unless a boarding pass and photo ID are matched up at the point dividing landside and airside, or all airlines perform matching of passport details against national Govt databases at the time of online check-in, I struggle to see how asking for visual inspection of a boarding pass alone assists in stopping anyone from going airside. The only benefit I can see is to keep those who are incompetent away from airside, or want to go airside with less than a few hours of planning.

Using cash, buy a prepaid payment card with a spending limit under £650 - no proof of ID or address required.
Top it up at the local minimart with some cash - again, no proof of ID required.
Use the prepaid card to book a flight on the required date under a false identity.
Check in online under said false name, giving a fake passport number - perhaps choose to be a citizen of an EU country whose ID system is less computerised - maybe Bulgaria ?
Carry only some innocent looking hand baggage - anything dangerous like nail scissors will still be caught at security.
Take boarding pass under said false name to Gatwick, and wave it at anyone in a yellow hi-vis jacket who asks to see it.
You can't get on an aircraft, but you're now in the airside part of Gatwick with no record of your real identity.
Yes, there are cameras everywhere, but unless someone's face is on record for bad behaviour in the past, facial recognition will not automatically identify the person as suspicious.

So where does the system stop my plan from working ?

[Heathrow Harry]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-19977226


Gatwick says a new runway could be "affordable and practical" but residents fear extra noise


Gatwick Airport bosses are to begin work on detailed plans for a second runway which would double annual capacity to 70 million passengers.
The West Sussex airport's owners say they will scrutinise the options to develop the site up to 2020 and beyond.
Following 18 weeks of consultation, they will now put plans to an aviation commission led by ex-Financial Services Authority boss Sir Howard Davies.
Campaigners fear expansion will raise noise levels and harm the environment.
Noise impact
Mark Norman BBC South East Business Correspondent
Is this a surprise? Probably not. Despite the airport saying in July it had "no current plans for a second runway" and was "focused on making the best use of its single runway" the owners of Gatwick have clearly been working behind the scenes on plans for extra capacity.
The airport has always said it needs to plan for all eventualities.
The last time I spoke to one of their board members they shrugged and smiled when I suggested a second runway was probably discussed at every board meeting.
Land to the south of the current runway has been "safeguarded" for this moment and while all parties are committed to the legal agreement not to build until 2019, I have to wonder how soon after the end of that agreement the owners would like to see bulldozers starting work.

Gatwick said no runway would be built before 2019 under a legal agreement signed in 1979.

[ORAC]

Grauniad: Gatwick airport to push for second runway (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/oct/17/gatwick-airport-second-runway)

Sussex airport throws its hat into ring as government commission prepares to consider options for increasing capacity

Gatwick has declared its intent to push for a second runway and is to start drawing up detailed plans for government approval. The airport says the runway is "affordable and practical" and will allow it to compete with its bigger London rival, Heathrow, where any runway expansion has been ruled out for now.

Although an agreement prohibits any new runway opening before 2019 at Gatwick, the airport is to start detailed work on the options, to be presented to the government's Davies commission on aviation with a view to getting the go-ahead after the next election. A second runway would increase capacity to 70 million passengers a year and would also mean the construction of a third terminal building.

Campaigners warned they would "fight tooth and nail" against any proposal.

The airport's chief executive, Stewart Wingate, said he believed a new Gatwick runway was the best answer to calls for more capacity in the south-east. He said: "A third runway at Heathrow won't happen. The Thames estuary won't happen. Stansted is only half full. But Gatwick is tremendously dynamic." In the three years since Gatwick was sold by BAA, Wingate said that owners Global Infrastructure Partners had invested over £650m and set up new routes to China, Korea and Vietnam. "So we have got wind in our sails, and the time was right to start the detailed work."

The plans would eventually double the numbers of passengers at the Sussex airport, which believes its current capacity to grow from 34 million to 45 million with a single runway will see it through until the mid-2020s. The timing of the announcement will push Gatwick to the forefront of government thinking on airport expansion, with the commission led by Sir Howard Davies being assembled to give its verdict on possible new runways in 2015.

Heathrow claims there can be only one "hub" airport in Britain – an airport that supports enough connecting flights to make long-haul routes possible – but Gatwick rejects that argument. Wingate said: "We don't see the world in the same way. For us the question is: how can London connect with the rest of the world? The hub argument says you can't connect with the emerging economies – well, we've already done it."...........(more)

[Rob Courtney]

Would this be a completely new runway or just an upgrade of the 26R 08L arrangement?

[Out Of Trim]

This would be a completely new Runway 26L / 08R. To the south of the current one. This land has been safeguarded for a while.

I expect the Bulldozers to be on the start line on 01 JAN 2019!

[BOAC]

I expect the Bulldozers to be on the start line on 01 JAN 2019! Although an agreement prohibits any new runway opening before 2019 at Gatwick House price blight and compulsory purchase start now and Bulldozers around 01 JAN 2018?

[True Blue]

Went through North terminal last night, very fast and efficient. friendly staff. Boarding passes checked once only. No issues at all, very pleased with process.

TB

[Out Of Trim]

Ahh yes, Good point BOAC.. I guess they could build it earlier as long as it's not operational before 2019.

[LGW_08R]

Have to say, anybody who wasn't expecting this must be really naive. I have been certain the whole way through the latest consultation/masterplan process that a second runway would start being spoken about. I actually didn't expect the airport to say anything until around a couple of years before 2019 however.

Yes to 2nd Runway :ok:

[Fairdealfrank]

Have to say that it's been on the cards since LGW was sold.

[DaveReidUK]

I guess they could build it earlier as long as it's not operational before 2019.

No. The planning agreement would prevent any construction work starting before 2019.

[Airlift21]

From today's (17th 0ct) London Evening Standard editorial re: Gatwick expansion,

"Indeed, a new hub in the east is looking increasingly attractive as a long term solution. The Mayor's favourite Thames Estuary option would create fewer problems for densely populated areas than expansion at Heathrow, for instance. It would also meet the gradual shifting of gravity in the capital eastwards, something that the completion of Crossrail will expedite."

Sounds very similar to a certain PPRuNer! :ugh:

Now, this isn't my opinion by any stretch, as I'm fully aware of the business case for 1 or 2 runways at Heathrow & maybe a 2nd at Gatwick in addition to that, but I reckon the government will actually only ever look at two options: Silver/Boris Island or Stanstead (That's for you Silver!)

[Out Of Trim]

Nah, Boris Island is a non-starter and Stansted is a dying half empty airport. No point expanding somewhere that nobody wants to travel from..

[Airlift21]

Out Of Trim,

Totally agree, but the government doesn't really apply logic to the argument. They are probably, hopelessly going to follow the path of least friction. Why do you think they've thrown the debate into the long grass.... again?

Now, I don't agree with most of what our beloved Boris has to say, but his comments about delaying the decision making on runway capacity are absolutely correct, just not where he wants to put them.

I'm now unsure where I should be writing these posts, as they began with reference to Gatwick's new proposals, but now I'm drifting towards "New Thames Airport for London"

[pabely]

Construction of second runway & infrastructure could not start until 2019 but planning could get done now, application, objections, committee, basically all red tape so it would be ready to actually dig earth from this date.
If all approved then would not any new terminal(s) or major upgrade be put in place way before?

[Airlift21]

Pabely,

If all approved then would not any new terminal(s) or major upgrade be put in place way before? In theory yes, but I think Gatwick will now find it difficult to even get permission for an extra stand, let alone another terminal or runway, after their recent announcement.

One question though, for anybody to answer. Does the government actually consult the CAA, NATS, or airlines when deciding where to locate extra runways/hubs/terminals?

I'm only asking because some of the alternatives that are suggested for expansion are sometimes a little ridiculous and often where there is not much demand.

For example,

Ridiculous = Silver/Boris Island and Northolt etc

Little demand = Stansted or Birmingham etc

[DaveReidUK]

Does the government actually consult the CAA, NATS, or airlines when deciding where to locate extra runways/hubs/terminals?

I must have missed the part where the government actually made a decision on anything.

[BAladdy]

Apologies if this has already been posted.

Looks like Air Berlin' will end operations to LGW when it operates it's last flight from NUE to LGW on Sunday 6th January 2013.

Flights have not been available to book after this date for a few weeks now. Flights do however still show as operating according to the timetable on AB's website.

[Keyvon]

FLASH NEWS : Norwegian (yes, Norwegian!) is to open a new base at Gatwick airport with a dozen of new routes to places such Canary Island, Balearics, Spanish Costas, Algarve, France, Croatia and Italy.

They are supposed to base 3-4 aircraft, with ops starting Spring 2013.

[Keyvon]

Unveiled destinations from Gatwick are :

Palma
Alicante
Barcelona
Tenerife South
Las Palmas
Fuerteventura
Lanzarote
Faro
Montpellier
Nice
Rome Fiumicino
Split
Dubrovnik

[WHBM]

Unveiled destinations from Gatwick are
Looks exactly like what Dan-Air was doing for Clarksons out of Gatwick 40 years ago.

[davidjohnson6]

Will the orange brigade launch a price war to defend their turf from the invading vikings ?

[sxflyer]

Norwegian plan to fly to Barcelona do they? Excellent news!

So which airlines at LGW don't fly to BCN?

[GAZMO]

Aer lingus tried to take on EZY in their own backyard a few years ago......didn't last too long

[AP1995]

they plan to have 3 aircraft operating into LGW by srping 2013 and then to add a fourth for the summer season

[fjencl]

It already says that on the 0943am posting, why mention the same thing again ???????

[pabely]

This looks like a non-brainer by Norwegian, let battle commence (again)...

[LGW_08R]

First destination now in the booking system,

Tromso twice weekly Starts 3 April 2013,
Wednesday
1615 LGW 2050 TOS
2120 TOS 2355 LGW

Saturday
0815 LGW 1250 TOS
1320 TOS 1555 LGW

Looks interesting. Perhaps we will see a number of smaller Scandic destinations included that would not be able to support a based aircraft the other end.

[PAXboy]

Airlift21 Does the government actually consult the CAA, NATS, or airlines when deciding where to locate extra runways/hubs/terminals?No.

What they do is:-


Make a speech
Get interviewed on Radio / Telly / Newspaper
Leak a story to the news media

Then they sit back and wait to see what the The Daily Mail and The Telegraph think of it.

If the reaction is not to adverse, they THEN think about formulating a policy. So, as you can see, this saves an awful lot of time and money and is really super efficient. It also means they don't have to plan ahead or doing ANY fµçkïñg thing at all. :*

[davidjohnson6]

Is Tromso just a reopening of a route Norwegian served a couple of years ago ? Seem to recall it ran for a few years.

[FRatSTN]

They did only for a very short period from Gatwick however it spent longer at Stansted. I flew with them from Stansted to Tromso in Fenruary 2008 and the flight was quite full. Was very sad to see it axed, it's an amazing place in the winter!

[True Blue]

oslo up to 4 a day, early departure ex Lgw.

TB

[LGW_08R]

From looking at the schedules for early April,

Aalborg appears to have gained an additional weekly flight, rising to 3 weekly. The extra flight is on Thursdays and the route now appears to be operated by a Gatwick based plane.

Trondheim appears to have gained an additional 2 weekly flights, taking it to 5 weekly. The times have changed, however still looks like the plane is based in Trondheim.

Will have another gander at the schedules tomorrow to see what other changes have been added.

[Buster the Bear]

Press Report

Norwegian budget carrier to establish Gatwick base - www.travelweekly.co.uk (http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2012/10/26/42060/norwegian-budget-carrier-to-establish-gatwick-base.html)

[Airlift21]

PAXboy,

Quote:
Does the government actually consult the CAA, NATS, or airlines when deciding where to locate extra runways/hubs/terminals?
No.

What they do is:-


Make a speech
Get interviewed on Radio / Telly / Newspaper
Leak a story to the news media

Then they sit back and wait to see what the The Daily Mail and The Telegraph think of it.

If the reaction is not to adverse, they THEN think about formulating a policy. So, as you can see, this saves an awful lot of time and money and is really super efficient. It also means they don't have to plan ahead or doing ANY fµçkïñg thing at all.

Thought so! :}

Airlift

[True Blue]

Norwegian now showing 5 x to Stockholm ex Lgw from April.

TB

[davidjohnson6]

Is Norwegian trying to kick a weakened SAS off the Heathrow-Arlanda route similiar to CSA's closing the Heathrow-Prague route, or is there genuine latent demand for more seats between London and Stockholm ?

[sxflyer]

Probably a bit of both dj6, flights to London from Scandinavia are always busy but this will put pressure on SAS.

[LN-KGL]

You also need to take in to account what will happen in June next year. There are now clear indications that ARN will be the main European airport for Norwegian Intercontinental's flights to BKK with B788, and they want to secure feed even from LGW

[adfly]

BA dropping MAN from March, not too surprising as the timings have been pretty poor ever since the 4th daily overnighting flight was dropped. I would say that leaves a nice wide door open for EZY! (Or Flybe as a longshot).

Article: British Airways ditches Manchester-Gatwick route | Manchester Evening News - menmedia.co.uk (http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/business/s/1592466_british-airways-ditches-manchester-gatwick-route)

Also an interesting article concerning operating cost reductions and fleet for BA @ LGW, commitment to keeping short haul and also talk of adding more long haul aircraft.

British Airways Reviews London Gatwick Fleet - Businessweek (http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-10-29/british-airways-reviews-makeup-of-london-gatwick-fleet)

Finally it looks like the bearded one is the first major player to support a second runway, along with 2 more at Heathrow!

Branson: "Build new Gatwick runway now" | Meridian - ITV News (http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/update/2012-10-29/branson-build-new-gatwick-runway-now/)

[BAladdy]

Does anyone have any idea about when DY are planning to release for sale there new routes from LGW to Croatia and Spain??.

BA dropping MAN from March, not too surprising as the timings have been pretty poor ever since the 4th daily overnighting flight was dropped. I would say that leaves a nice wide door open for EZY! (Or Flybe as a longshot).

Article: British Airways ditches Manchester-Gatwick route | Manchester Evening News - menmedia.co.uk

Also an interesting article concerning operating cost reductions and fleet for BA @ LGW, commitment to keeping short haul and also talk of adding more long haul aircraft.

British Airways Reviews London Gatwick Fleet - Businessweek


The route to MAN was struggling well before the reduction in frequency. I suprised when that they didn't drop the route for the Winter schedule.

BA are so far planning to make the following changes to there schedule for next summer. The changes are based on there operation during S12. Below is a list of all the changes. All flights currently showing as being operated by a 737.

Further changes to the schedule including the planned deployment of A319 aircraft are expected in the coming weeks.



New Routes

Alicante - Flights will resume after being dropped a few years back. Flights will operate 17 x Weekly until 1st July 2013 when flights will increase to 3 x Daily

Barcelona - Flights return after being dropped a few years ago in February 2013. During the S13 schedule flights will operate 3 x Daily. Flights will depart LGW at 09:50, 15:40 & 21:20 arriving in BCN at 13:00, 18:50 & 00:30. Return flights will depart BCN at 08:10, 13:55 & 19:40 arriving LGW 09:15, 15:00 & 20:45

Routes Dropped

Manchester - As reported above flights will not operate S13. Flights operated up to 3 x Daily S12

Pristina - No flights available for sale W12/13 or S13. Flights operated 2 x Weekly S12

Frequency Decreases

Amsterdam - Flights will drop from 26 to 22 x Weekly in S13. BA2764/BA2765 will not operate days Monday to Thursday

Edinburgh - Flights drop from 28 to 26 x Weekly with 3 rotations instead if four operating on Saturday & Sunday. BA2940/BA2941 rotation non op on those days.

Jersey - Flights will drop from 35 to 34 x Weekly. BA2776/77 rotation will not operate on a Saturday.

Naples - Flights will drop from 3 to 2 x Daily in S13.

Tirana - Flights will drop from 5 to 4 x Weekly.

Frequency Increases

Faro - Flights will operate 8 x Weekly.

Rome FCO - Flights will increase from 10 flights a week in S12 to 2 x Daily S13.

Days of Operation Changes

Salzburg - Flights will operate on Monday, Wednesday, Saturday & Sunday S13. Flight operated Tuesday, Friday, Saturday & Sunday S12

Thessaloniki - S13 flights will operate Monday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Flights operated Monday, Wednesday, Friday & Saturday.

Tunis - S13 flights will operate 5 x weekly with no flights on a Wednesday & Saturday. S12 flight didn't operate on a Tuesday or Thursday

[adfly]

Its route 100 time for the Big Orange! New routes for next summer (including ones continued from the winter) are as follows:

Moscow Domodedovo - 14 weekly
Kalamata - 2 weekly
Santiago - 3 weekly
Isle of Man - 6 weekly
Luxembourg - 4 weekly
Tallinn - 4 weekly

Article: easyJet plc : easyJet marks major milestone - the airline’s 100th route launches at London Gatwick | 4-Traders (http://www.4-traders.com/EASYJET-PLC-10093880/news/easyJet-plc-easyJet-marks-major-milestone-the-airline-s-100th-route-launches-at-London-Gatwick-15450386/)

[BAladdy]

Norwegian have today released for sale all there recently announced LGW routes. Flights are available for sale until 30SEP13.

Here is a list of DY's new routes from LGW along with there planned schedule and operational frequency. Further changes are likely to take place before the start of the S13 operation

Arrecife - 2 x weekly starts 02SEP13

DY2438 LGW 07:00 ACE 11:10 738 15

DY2439 ACE 12:05 LGW 16:15 738 15

Alicante - Operates 1 x weekly 06APR13 to 31AUG13

DY2410 LGW 09:35 ALC 12:55 738 6

DY2411 ALC 13:40 LGW 15:10 738 6

Flights will increase to 3 x weekly commencing 03SEP13

DY2410 LGW 09:35 ALC 12:55 738 6
DY2410 LGW 17:15 ALC 20:35 738 24

DY2411 ALC 13:40 LGW 15:10 738 6
DY2411 ALC 21:20 LGW 22:50 738 24

Barcelona - 3 x weekly starting 04APR13

DY2504 LGW 12:15 BCN 15:25 738 24
DY2504 LGW 12:40 BCN 15:50 738 7

DY2505 BCN 16:05 LGW 17:15 738 24
DY2505 BCN 16:30 LGW 17:40 738 7

Dubrovnik - Weekly flights start 06APR13

DY2454 LGW 06:25 DBV 10:05 738 6

DY2455 DBV 10:45 LGW 12:20 738 6

Faro - Weekly flights start 06APR13

DY2450 LGW 17:05 FAO 19:55 738 6

DY2451 FAO 20:40 LGW 23:30 738 6

Rome - 4 x weekly service starts 06SEP13

DY2500 LGW 17:15 FCO 20:45 738 x246

DY2501 FCO 21:25 LGW 23:05 738 x246

Marseille - Weekly flights start 06APR13

DY2444 LGW 19:20 MRS 22:10 738 6

DY2445 MRS 22:40 LGW 23:30 738 6

Nice - 4 x weekly service starts 05APR13

DY2440 LGW 11:35 NCE 14:35 738 135
DY2440 LGW 12:15 NCE 15:15 738 7

DY2441 NCE 15:15 LGW 16:15 738 135
DY2441 NCE 15:55 LGW 16:55 738 7

Palma - Weekly flights start 07APR13

DY2428 LGW 06:00 PMI 09:25 738 7

DY2429 PMI 10:05 LGW 11:30 738 7

Split - Weekly service starts 06APR13

DY2452 LGW 13:20 SPU 16:45 738 6

DY2453 SPU 17:25 LGW 18:50 738 6

Tenerife - 4 x weekly service starts 05SEP13

DY2434 LGW 06:00 TFS 10:15 738 247
DY2434 LGW 07:00 TFS 11:15 738 247

DY2435 TFS 11:05 LGW 15:20 738 247
DY2435 TFS 12:05 LGW 16:20 738 247

[pamann]

DY don't really have the frequency to compete with the big boys at LGW. IMO they'd be better to re-trench their footsteps back to STN and try it from there. I don't really see it lasting.

[Airlift21]

pamann

DY don't really have the frequency to compete with the big boys at LGW. IMO they'd be better to re-trench their footsteps back to STN and try it from there. I don't really see it lasting.Er, why?

They have to start from somewhere and there's absolutely no reason why it can't work for them. We'll just have to wait and see.

Also, I can't think of a single reason why they would want to "re-trench" their footsteps back to STN. The passenger numbers are still falling off there. :ugh:

There are some very good reasons to start a base at Gatwick, one of them being the pretty damn good rail connections to London and the rest of the southeast. The catchment area is larger as well. It's not a decision Norwegian would have taken if they didn't think there was something in it for them.

[pamann]

Hmmm... Airlift21 I do wish them all the luck. Having flown with them they are a great product. However I'm thinking Aer Lingus part 2. Aer Lingus couldn't make some of those routes work with higher frequency and brand awareness (might be worth you doing some home work and take a look back at what has already been done).

As for Stansted, yes passenger numbers are falling, no need to bang your head against the wall. However once again only time will tell. fingers crossed to all involved.

[easyflyer83]

I must admit, those frequencies aren't exactly a match for EZY/BA. No doubt about it DY have been pretty successful but they have been so largely away from the dominance of Easyjet. I.e Scandinavia. Low frequency, a brand that is very geographical and not associated with the UK to anywhere but Scandinavia and I think there is every reason to foresee a possible failure for them at LGW.

[Airlift21]

pamann,

However I'm thinking Aer Lingus part 2. Aer Lingus couldn't make some of those routes work with higher frequency and brand awareness (might be worth you doing some home work and take a look back at what has already been done).I do see your point with regards to Aer Lingus and that was pretty recent so it may well be a risky move, but their customer base is a little different to that of the Irish carrier. I was only banging my head against the wall with reference to a move back to Stansted.

As we both said though, only time will tell.

Airlift

[easyflyer83]

Aer Lingus or Norwegian the customer base is pretty much the same.

[pamann]

Completely agree with easyflyer83...

Think Aer lingus - think Ireland
Think Norwegian - think Scandinavia

It will take some HEAVY marketing to get the UK general public to think Norwegian = Arrecife or Pula once or twice a week.

Gatwick is saturated with a lot of the routes chosen. Just look at Barcelona for instance.

I still think Stansted or even Luton would have been a better option, but even still some major marketing and brand awareness in these areas would be needed.

[LN-KGL]

easyflyer and pamann, you also have to consider the feed from Scandinavia and Finland. I see a DY hub at LGW and the main part of the passengers will be from the Nordic countries. It will only be a few British passengers (the last seats).

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/23931688/Maps/Norwegian/Dest_from_Gatwick.jpg

[pamann]

But is that Norwegian's intention? Aren't most if not all these routes already served from their home bases? I'm not sure that it's being done to interline.

[LN-KGL]

The LGW based aircraft will fly to Scandinavian destinations too - here is the morning duty for two of them Mon-Fri:

LGW-OSL 06:10-09:15
OSL-LGW 09:45-11:05

LGW-ARN 06:30-09:50
ARN-LGW 10:20-11:55

I haven't had time to analyse it all, but with the return times to LGW I suspect a number of Norwegian flights have flown just before LGW based aircraft arrive and are ready to do their flights to the south. To me this says transfer. Many of the don't have direct flight during the week - only during the weekends. In other words more capacity without dedicating a single aircraft to each destination.

Edit:
I see only two DY 738 at LGW from the start in April to early September. Here is how the Saturdays for one of them looks like

LGW-DBV 06:25-10:05
DBV-LGW 10:45-12:20
LGW-SPU 13:20-16:45
SPU-LGW 17:25-18:50
LGW-MRS 19:20-22:10
MRS-LGW 22:40-23:30

[Airlift21]

Aer Lingus or Norwegian the customer base is pretty much the same.Except Aer Lingus passengers weren't originating from Scandinavia, so it's slightly different and also it looks as though they'll be feeding from those Nordic destinations.

It will take some HEAVY marketing to get the UK general public to think Norwegian = Arrecife or Pula once or twice a week.That's if you're looking to attract just UK customers. As you said, those routes are heavily served from LGW, but the load factors are pretty high. IF Norwegian are looking to feed from Scandinavia, then any remaining seats could be mopped up with UK passengers, without HEAVY marketing.

[LGW_08R]

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/1385/naxp.jpg

After trawling through the current schedules this evening. (Nothing better to do!) I have compiled, what I believe will be the schedules for the Gatwick based aircraft. These are shown in the table above.

If this is correct, then this shows that (initially at least) there will only be 2 aircraft that night-stop Monday thru Friday. With a third on Saturday and again 2 on Sunday.

AC1 seems fairly standard. The schedule shows that Gatwick based unit now operate the flights to Aalborg and Alesund, and these fit nicely into this unit. The AM Oslo service also fits nicely in this AC. M-F between the two Scandic routes, there is space for a new external route, and my belief shows the above. Rotating between Nice and Barcelona throughout the weekdays. Come the weekend, the unit flies a host of new routes, Dubrovnik, Split and Marseille on Saturday. With Palma, Nice and an extra Weekly frequency to Helsinki on Sunday.

AC2 is the second night stopping unit. M-F it flies an early morning Stockholm rotation. Once back, just after lunch, the unit flies to ARN once more where it looks like an aircraft change takes place. A different aircraft then returns from Stockholm in late afternoon, and this unit (AC3) goes on to operate a further ARN rotation on 12_45__. On the Wednesday, AC3 would then operate one of the new Tromso frequencies. Back to AC2, on the weekend, it would operate a Tromso and Faro rotation on the Saturday, with Aalborg, Barcelona and Stockholm on the Sunday.

As mentioned above, the schedules suggest only 2 night stopping aircraft, but also that three aircraft are required for most of the weekend. The schedules suggest that the third unit (AC3 once again) will arrive from Stockholm on the Saturday morning, and will operate to both Alicante and Stockholm that day. On the Sunday, the third unit will operate two return rotations to Stockholm after which, in the evening, it operates a third late evening flight to Stockholm where it remains for the night.

If that makes sense to you, well done! I think I lost myself in explanation. However. Regardless, in my opinion the new Gatwick base has been set up simply to serve Scandinavia. The Stockholm route is practically now operated by one of the Gatwick based units and if you factor in the other changes, ie frequency increases on Helsinki and Oslo, plus a new route to Tromso, then the schedule is left with a couple of holes. Like I said, in my opinion, rather than the aircraft sitting around idle at Gatwick why not make use of them on some bucket and spade routes. In the bigger picture, the base will make money as a whole thanks to the Scandic routes alone I believe. As mentioned also, there is the potential to "hub" passengers through Gatwick. In time, I suspect new routes to Scandic airports that cannot support a base to open, for example, Kristiansand. By having a base at Gatwick, the airline would be able to operate a weekly/twice weekly route to the airport in the future, which would be a great more deal sustainable than basing an aircraft at Kristiansand and trying to fill it daily to various other destinations.

Strayed slightly from the hubbing point however. It simply is not possible for NAX to operate Tromso to Tenerife for example. However, passengers now have the opportunity to fly that routing via Gatwick. Yes, they could choose to go via OSL or such, but LGW is a more direct route and would be quicker for the passengers.

Anyway, certainly is interesting news. Wish NAX every success. Believe they can do well.

8R

[Heathrow Harry]

"It simply is not possible for NAX to operate Tromso to Tenerife for example. However, passengers now have the opportunity to fly that routing via Gatwick. Yes, they could choose to go via OSL or such, but LGW is a more direct route and would be quicker for the passengers"

and a damn sight cheaper buying a beer in the Transit Lounge..............

[Bagmanlgw]

DY have stated that they are to operate some 300 + flights from LGW this summer

This first realease of the schedule shows a maximum of only 23 flights on a Sunday i believe , still well short of the 40 flights a day to get up to the 300 + mark quoted in their press release

Any idea were the other flights / schedules are coming from

Still a lot to be added in order to reach that figure or have they allready scaled back their comitments

Bagmanlgw

[LN-KGL]

In early March next year DY has 97 weekly flights in to LGW, and this is without any base aircraft. The press release from Norwegian that concerns the new Gatwick base only mention this number
With more than 100 weekly departures between the Nordic region and London
Just remember the press release came out when it was still Summer 2012 routes - the number of winter routes are reduced a bit.

Was it 300 flights out of Gatwick that was said or was it that DY will operate 300 flights at Gatwick. The latter is clearly 150 flights in and 150 flights out - and I guess that's the case. 3 aircraft and 50 flights out of LGW gives an average of 2.38 flight out per day per aircraft. Looking at the time tables, this looks like it will be the case.

[Seljuk22]

Thomson to Phuket with B787 from November 2013
TUITravel Media Centre - News - All Thai (http://thomson.presscentre.com/News/All-Thai-d-up-with-new-Dream-destination-ff.aspx)

[AirLCY]

TOM announce HKT before Norwegian get their 787's, good move!

[True Blue]

Aegean launching Lca.
BA launching Tfs and Ace.
All starting end of March 13.

TB

[MKY661]

Does anyone know what Terminal Vueling will be when they start ops from LGW?

[racedo]

Does anyone know what Terminal Vueling will be when they start ops from LGW?

Given the IAG takeover that may be reviewed as BA were to start flying some of these routes.

[True Blue]

Flew through North Terminal this evening. Security very good. Lgw looking very good now. Also had some time in the No 1 Lounge, very nice.

TB

[Airlift21]

Far East Long Hauls

Now that Korean have pulled out, anyone know if the others are on their way out and if so, when?

Sorry to sound a bit "doom & gloom", but it's just that Gatwick doesn't really have a good history of holding on to long haul carriers.

Also, anyone know of BA's plans and if they're are continuing their gradual scaling back of their services at the airport?

[Skipness One Echo]

Korean Air is a winter suspension apparently and is still *planned* to operate in the summer again. I suspect US Airways will be gone once LHR-CLT is bookable for 2013.

[Aero Mad]

Now that Korean have pulled out, anyone know if the others are on their way out and if so, when?

Sorry to sound a bit "doom & gloom", but it's just that Gatwick doesn't really have a good history of holding on to long haul carriers.

Also, anyone know of BA's plans and if they're are continuing their gradual scaling back of their services at the airport?


Vietnam Airlines is known to be contemplating a move to T4 at LHR within the next year, so I wouldn't be looking to hold onto them for too long. Charlotte will not be returning, although my guess is that Seoul will. BA won't be gradually scaling back services at Gatwick unless it can acquire vastly more slots at Heathrow or a third runway/sixth terminal is built there. Its LGW leisure routes have quite a following and their CEO was quoted a few months ago as saying that there was an economic case to stick around at LGW for as long as demand warranted it - will be making a decision on the long-discussed 737 renewal sometime next year.

[dalej123]

Hi, I am travelling up to London Gatwick Airport for an Interview from Plymouth. I am looking at staying at the travelodge or preimer inn, Any good plane spotting sites near by? I heard room 310 in the Travelodge is very good view

Thanks
Dale

[LGS6753]

From Travel Mole:

Sunvil Holidays has enlisted the help of a German airline to fly its Greece programme for summer 2013.
Germania will base an aircraft at London Gatwick for the Greek specialist and its sister company GIC The Villa Collection.
Both operators have contracted full catering, with hot meal service, plus a 20 kg baggage allowance and pre-allocated seating.
"Faced with competition from the low-cost carriers, it is very important that, as real specialists to Greece, we differentiate our offering," said Chris Wright, operations director for Sunvil and MD of GIC The Villa Collection.
Customers using the new service will be able to pre-book extras such as select-a-seat, additional legroom or excess baggage.

Presumably this replaces Strategic?

[adfly]

Hopefully having a reputable carrier will ensure this operation lasts more than a couple of years!

[mizake the mizzen]

I believe it was the Small Planet unit that this new Germania aircraft will replace. The Strategic A320 was used mostly by Olympic Holidays.
The on sale program looks like:


Day1 LGW-CFU-LGW 07:00-12:15/13:00-14:15 local
Day2 LGW-CHQ-LGW 07:00-12:50/13:35-15:40 local
Day3 LGW-RHO-LGW 09:10-15:10/16:30-18:30 local
Day4 LGW-SMI-LXS-LGW 07:00-12:45(13:30/1430)-1515-16:55local
Day5 LGW-JSI-VOL-LGW 07:00-12:25(13:10/13:45)-14:3016:55local
Day6 LGW-EFL-LGW 06:00-11:25/12:10-13:30 local
Day7 LGW-PVK-LGW Not on sale
LGW-KLX-LGW 14:15-19:55/20:40-22:35 local

[j636]

Not sure if posted here but US Arways last flight will be on 30 March.

[StoneyBridge Radar]

Seems Korean do have every intention of returning:

Under the unfavorable market circumstances such as the shortage of demand in low season
and high oil price, we decide to suspend London Gatwick route for 3 months of low season, but it will be re-operated on the end of April 2013.

Sangbeom Lee
Vice President Longhaul Network

[macuser]

I would be pleased of any comments ref the a1 v aspire lounges at gatwick north. Which should I choose?

[Feet on ground]

I have no experience of the Aspire lounge, but the A1 lounge in the NT is the best independently (non airline) run lounge I've ever been in, and I've been in lots!

[macuser]

F o g

Many thanks. Sounds good!

[Aero Mad]

Where is Norwegian getting all these slots from? I'll be interested to see how they do against the mammoth of easyJet but fear they'll end up going the same way as Aer Lingus at LGW. Some very good marketing will be needed.

[vectisman]

When you look the frequency of some of the Norwegian services the number of slots required isn't huge. Gatwick also has the capacity at certain times of the day.
I agree with your comments about taking on Easyjet and to some extent a resurgent BA, which has rediscovered the summer sun routes with some vigour for summer 2013.

V.

[cornishsimon]

And with BA if 2013 sun routes work you might well see more again for 2014.


cs

[LNIDA]

You forget that Norwegian already have a very good business out LGW on their Nordic routes, their planned growth at LGW isn't massive for 2013.

Their challenge will be to get people on board, the passenger retention rate will i suspect be high, the product is very good and i understand that 99% of flights will be with WiFi equipped aircraft, there is a certain wow factor on board that you don't get with Easyjet, as for BA a good product spoilt by poor ground handling.

I don't know of another airline let alone a budget airline that gives you a 4 hour cooling of period on its web bookings+ the price you see is what you actually pay plus credit card fee, no admin and £7 a bag is a good deal

I suspect that there will be plenty of people around the Gatwick catchment area ready to try something new, the challenge is in the marketing

[toledoashley]

BA at Gatwick are very quickly emulating GB on Short Haul, if Canaries and Alicante are popular next year I wouldn't be surprised to see Sharm back for the winter, and Greek Islands (Crete. Santorini & Rhodes?), Split, Madeira, Olbia and maybe Menorca. Long Haul, we are still waiting for the Seychelles, Phuket and Fort Lauderdale.

[FRatSTN]

I think that's exactly the way BA should do it and in fairness they already do generally speaking, where the summer sun/winter ski flights go from Gatwick and the domestic and international cities and worldwide hubs are served from Heathrow.

There should be a really clear and distinct difference in the type of travel market they aim to attract at Heathrow and Gatwick and should be less competition between them and very few routes that go from both. I'd say get rid of the Scottish routes from Gatwick and maybe some of the cities like Amsterdam, Barcelona and Rome and fly them on bigger aircraft from Heathrow and allow more space for summer sun/winter ski routes from Gatwick. At the end of the day, the traveller who wants a full service flight between two cities will prefer Heathrow and for a low cost flights would prefer Stansted or Luton, Gatwick is a bit in the middle and maybe better for the holiday flights, plus that's what Gatwick is traditionally known for.

[Aero Mad]

Gatwick is a bit in the middle

Perhaps precisely why BA keeps routes like AMS, FCO etc - to keep both business and leisure travellers flying with them from LGW which will maintain yields (always a problem for BA and the cause of the demise of the dual-hub concept in the first half of the last decade) because of the split between those taking city-breaks and those on business. Useful to bear in mind that many of those on business taking these flights will be living in Surrey/Sussex/Kent; given so many commuters living in these areas there is clearly demand - so they might as well keep such routes.

[vectisman]

I fully agree with the analysis of AeroMad.
Some city routes from Gatwick serve business and the lesiure traveller alike.
The Scottish routes and Jersey do provide some useful feed as well as point to point for people in the catchment area. Also why should BA give all those passengers on a plate to Easyjet!!
I do regret the loss of Manchester from next March. I wonder how it is doing over the winter months. It has better timings on most days at the moment. I know quite a number of people use the first flight down from Manchester to connect with BA long Haul and the 1025 up to Manchester to take them home. Use it myself a lot for point to point. I know economic reality says it will go but a pity nobody else will pick it up. Does anyone know how the route is performing at moment or any indication of a change of mind? I know I should move on!!

V.

[vectisman]

One thing I forgot to mention. BA does offer full service on all flights from Gatwick. There is nothing in the 'middle' about that. I also find the crews are very good. Myself I like paying the fare and not having to worry about the luggage extras and enjoy the complimentary drinks, snacks and meals. Prices are competitive too. Catering has actually improved this year. With more A319s for next Summer and beyond things are looking on the up.

I have nothing at all against Easyjet and have used them with no problem. I just have my personal choices and that is what it is about. Easyjet and BA both need the competition from each other and Gatwick Airport needs to keep a balance of carriers to suit all market segments.

Interestingly Ryanair have reduced their commitment to Gatwick steadily. I think in part this is due to the Gatwick catchment area being happy to pay a little more for service. Also people going on holiday, especially the higher end of the market, are more likely to pay up for a better product.

V.

[LNIDA]

Norwegian are rather hoping your right

[BAladdy]

I do regret the loss of Manchester from next March. I wonder how it is doing over the winter months. It has better timings on most days at the moment. I know quite a number of people use the first flight down from Manchester to connect with BA long Haul and the 1025 up to Manchester to take them home. Use it myself a lot for point to point. I know economic reality says it will go but a pity nobody else will pick it up. Does anyone know how the route is performing at moment or any indication of a change of mind? I know I should move on!!

Yields on the route have been steadily declining for the past 3 or 4 years with BA having to offer more discounted tickets in order to attract pax. Making the route one of the two worst performing LGW routes last year.There is a number of reasons for the drop in pax numbers but the main two reasons are:

BA's best customer on the route in years gone by was actually VS holidays. The company used the service to back then feed there longhaul network. As VS have expanded at MAN the number of pax on the BA flights to LGW have steadily dropped. The other reason is that rail services from LON to MAN have over the years become faster, cheaper, more frequent and more reliable. BA can't compete with the leisure fares offered by rail companies due to the high fuel cost. They have also lost business pax purely because getting the train on such a short route is often far less hassle and often quicker than flying.

[BAladdy]

One thing I forgot to mention. BA does offer full service on all flights from Gatwick. There is nothing in the 'middle' about that. I also find the crews are very good. Myself I like paying the fare and not having to worry about the luggage extras and enjoy the complimentary drinks, snacks and meals. Prices are competitive too. Catering has actually improved this year.

One of the first things Keith Williams did when he took over the top job at BA was to appoint the companies first Managing Director for LGW with her own team of managers. They were given two years to prove to BA and IAG that operating from LGW was still viable. This has meant that there has had to be some major changes in how the operation is run. As a result all BA's ground services at LGW have been contracted out to much cheaper 3rd party companies, routes have been cut and cabin crew working practices re negotiated. All these cost saving will result in the LGW operation being a profitable one this year.

Looking ahead BA plan to operate at least 5 A319's from LGW next summer. BA plan to use the ex BD A319 aircraft that have been added to the fleet to operate from LGW. The aircraft are not as old as the G-EUP-, G-EUO- registered aircraft. The A319's will be used to operate all flights to ACE, PFO and TFS.

Other recent route changes for S13 that have only recently been made include:

AGP - Will increase from 27 to 34 x weekly
IBZ - Will increase from 7 to 10 x weekly

[Dannyboy39]

How well do BA compete on those leisure routes to say IBZ and AGP? Obviously during the summer there's high level of cheaper competition from ZB, TOM, EZY, FR, TCX from LGW and the other London airports. I'd say if they're opening up further routes to TFS and ALC, they're doing fairly well on these routes?

[FR-]

BA do well on these leisure routes because people like me, will pay extra to fly BA (pending staff travel is not availble). And to be honest BA tend to have a better class of pax, and a more relaxed atmostphere in the cabin. Flights like IBZ in the summer tend to be half full of p:mad:ed up pax.
I often us the LCY-IBZ because of the excellent flight times.

fr-

[ericlday]

Thumbs up from a number of friends for the LGW - TFS for all the good reasons previously mentioned. Some have already booked at competitive rates.

[chinapattern]

Korean have decided to pull LGW-ICN permanently. I guess with BA launching ICN there was just too much competition.

[time4parties]

One of the first things Keith Williams did when he took over the top job at BA was to appoint the companies first Managing Director for LGW with her own team of managers.

She has now been replaced by the old BA CityFlyer MD...

[CabinCrewe]

She was certainly still there a few weeks ago...

[time4parties]

He took over 1st Jan I believe

[TartinTon]

If so that's a big loss for BA...a very capable and formidable lady...pushed or walked? PS or AK are the replacement? I think her nads were bigger than either!

[Omnipresent]

PS is Silla Maizey's replacement.

[NABLAG]

This is interesting.

FlyBe complaint about Gatwick Airport charges, in summary Flybe have lost.

Investigation under Section 41 of the Airports Act 1986 of the structure of airport charges levied by Gatwick Airport Limited -CAA decision
17 JANUARY 2013

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/5/S41GatwickFlybeDecision.pdf

What effect are the extra costs having on the Flybe operation out of Gatwick. Is there now a possibility that they will withdraw Dash 8 ops ?

[Aero Mad]

You will note that in the report, it says that Flybe has shifted services from E-195s to Dash 8s as a cost-saving measure. I assume that this is because they fall under the same fees class and reduced load factors justify it. But we probably won't see the end of Dash 8 ops at LGW unless we see the end of Flybe ops at LGW.

[FRatSTN]

I think now that from Gatwick, EasyJet serve the Isle Of Man, Aer Lingus serve Belfast-City and there are Aurigny and BA flights to the Channel Islands, Gatwick wouldn't be too bothered if they lost FlyBe as they don't really bring much unique to Gatwick and serve routes that others do in a less efficient way.

With Stansted under new ownership very soon, I really wouldn't be too surprised to hear some major news regarding FlyBe's London operations. Come to think of it, FlyBe did say a big announcement was coming along next month. We shall wait and see what unfolds.

[JobsaGoodun]

I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere that BE are the third largest slot holder at LGW after BA and EZY so I can't imagine it would be good business sense for LGW to loose them.

Also, you have to remember that BE have served LGW for many years and their routes are only now becoming inefficient due to the revised charges imposed at LGW, but maybe that's just business.

It's just a shame that domestic routes once forced out of LHR may also now find the same fate at LGW.

[globetrotter79]

What Gatwick Airport seem quick to forget is the connecting passengers that come off the BE domestic flights and into the BA and VS long haul leisure routes. Yes there is EZY on Inverness and Isle of Man, but no Interline possible and therefore your average travel agent in Inverness cannot (and likely will not) make a booking on LGW-MCO or whatever...either because they cannot see an INV connecting flight in their system or they know full well that there is an EZY service to LGW but will not recommended their clients use it as they'll earn zero commission and will instead book flights via MAN or AMS or something.

Sure, LGW isn't like LHR, AMS, CDG etc...no-one is pretending that it is. But it does still function as a hub (mostly for leisure traffic) in its own way and the Airport Authority doing their best to kill off small aircraft feeder services is also going to cause harm to (what's left of) their long-haul business.

[davidjohnson6]

Goodun - I can see a publicity reason as to why effectively forcing Flybe to cut links to Inverness would be bad as it kills connectivity to Scottish islands. I can also see a reason as to why squeezing out a smallish airline will make other airlines thinking of flying to London wary of Gatwick. Being heavily reliant on one (orange) customer is never good for business.

I can't follow your argument about turfing Flybe out of Gatwick not being good business sense. By moving a slot pair from a Dash 8 to an A319, the airport ca n double the number of passengers, paying airport fees and double the number of people spending at the shops - ie doubling the revenue per slot which is good (albeit hardnosed) business sense.

[EI-A330-300]

I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere that BE are the third largest slot holder at LGW after BA and EZY so I can't imagine it would be good business sense for LGW to loose them.

Flybe have lose 71 weekly slots since start of November.

[Skipness One Echo]

Gatwick has large periods where movements are rare, it's not as busy out of peak times as many imagine. Sure they can screw flybe as somehow they need to claw back their frankly enormous investment.

Quite how should be interesting.
71 is only ten a day, that seems remarkably low given BHD, GCI, INV, JER are all still going.

[BAladdy]

How well do BA compete on those leisure routes to say IBZ and AGP? Obviously during the summer there's high level of cheaper competition from ZB, TOM, EZY, FR, TCX from LGW and the other London airports. I'd say if they're opening up further routes to TFS and ALC, they're doing fairly well on these routes?

BA dow very well on the LON-IBZ route. BACF began operating a 2 x weekly service ex LCY at the start of W12. This is the first time BA have served IBZ out of season. Demand for S13 seats is high. So much so that BA will offer more flights than ever before from LON to IBZ and they will for the first time serve the island from it's 3 LON airports. They will operate up to 29 (17 x LCY, 10 x LGW and 2 x IBZ) flights a week during S13

[cornishsimon]

Gatwick has large periods where movements are rare, it's not as busy out of
peak times as many imagine. Sure they can screw flybe as somehow they need to
claw back their frankly enormous investment.

Quite how should be
interesting.
71 is only ten a day, that seems remarkably low given BHD, GCI,
INV, JER are all still going.



And NQY 3 daily


cs

[vectisman]

Flybe also continue to fly to Newcastle and the Isle of Man from Gatwick, 3 and 4 times daily. A summer service is also operating to Bergerac. On most days there are 26 departures a day from Gatwick planned this summer.

V.

[bunatern]

turkish airlines to add a third daily IST flight starting 3rd may 3xweekly raising to daily from 1st june but this flight from SAW.

[Fairdealfrank]

QUOTE:"Goodun - I can see a publicity reason as to why effectively forcing Flybe to cut links to Inverness would be bad as it kills connectivity to Scottish islands. I can also see a reason as to why squeezing out a smallish airline will make other airlines thinking of flying to London wary of Gatwick. Being heavily reliant on one (orange) customer is never good for business."

Indeed not, that's the trap STN fell into, 70% FR, isn't it?

[FR-]

Ryanair might have 70% of the passenger traffic, but where would Ryanair move a/c to in the London area? If STN was to put its charges up to try and make get back some of the £1.5billion investment.


fr-

[racedo]

Ryanair might have 70% of the passenger traffic, but where would Ryanair move a/c to in the London area?

Why do you assume they would move them in the London area ?

[FR-]

Just don't see them wanting to give even more of the London market to another airline.

fr-

[fjencl]

I see that Titan Airways is looking for crews to work at Gatwick from April/May until 31st October.

Does anybody know what aircraft they will be using here and for what airline will they be operating for.......?????

Thanks.

[TSR2]

May not be of help, but previously reported that Titan will operate a B757 for Jet2 but based at Manchester.

[euroxx]

From May 2013 for entire summer 2013 season, Small Planet will be operating Saturday flights from LGW to Malta (MLA). Full Charter flight by Monarch/Cosmos.

source: www.monarch.co.uk (http://www.monarch.co.uk)

[True Blue]

Has Korean Airlines confirmed that they are pulling off the Seoul route? I ask as Lgw is still in the booking system and timetable shows, although no results if you try to book in the summer.

DY has increased Hel to 2x from july.

TB

[bunatern]

while speaking today at a transport forum today gatwick ceo stewart wingate said a new long haul route wood be annouced later this week anyboby any ideas? my guess is its garuda to jakarta.

[Charley B]

Your guess is right...6 days a week Garuda Jakarta-LGW starting in the Autumn... 777-300 ER aircraft
Just appeared on the Gatwick website

[bcn_boy]

Travelled with them to Jakarta from LGW back in 1994. Not long after they pulled the route. More safety than anything else and I am not surprised, broken seats, belts that did not buckle up correctly. Rumour has it they have improved. Good to see LGW with another Asian connection.

[canberra97]

Bcn_boy

You say you travelled with Garuda from Gatwick to Jakarta in 1994 and you said that shortly after they pulled the route, GA actually withdrew from LGW in 2003 although the flights were to Denpaser(Bali) at that time.

Garuda Indonesian is a completely different airline in 2013 then in 1994, I have previously flown Garuda from Jakarta to LGW and found them excellent.

The only downside to this is that the start date of Autumn 2013 is a longway off yet and as much as I want to see Gatwick with further long haul expansion the airport does not seem to hold on to them very long, it seems for every new long haul airline gained the airport seems to loose one at the same time meaning that by the time Garuda do start flights to LGW how long will the likes of Air China be at the airport.

In the last year including upto the end of March the airport will have lost several long haul airlines including Air Nigeria, Air Zimbabwe, Delta, Hong Kong Airlines, Korean Air, US Airways.

With the situation between Kuwait and Iraq now resolved and the fact that Iraqi Airlines seems to be growing with the purchase of new aircraft I can see Iraqi Airways announcing LGW flights soon as well as a possibility of Philippine Airlines once they have there EU ban lifted although they have stated that LHR is on the radar I think LGW might tempt them.

But good news for LGW and I look forward to seeing Garuda back at the airport.

[Charley B]

Canberra97
Think Air Nigeria,Air Zimbabwe were internal airline issues sadly and and they would have pulled out of anywhere ,nothing to do with LGW.
Hong Kong Air was a big risk take,no matter where in Europe they may have placed this all business class route
US air sad to see that go
But.......................
We have the big EK bus(EK15,16) to look forward to on 26/3 again:)

[canberra97]

I wasnt actually stating that LGW was the problem for the airlines you mentioned and I am aware it was more of an internal matter with those airlines I was just stating that LGW are very unfortunate when it comes to keeping long haul airlines.

I aslo mentioned Iraqi Airways as a posible new airline at LGW, just noticed on Wikipedia that they are intending to fly from LGW although it states 01st February 2013 but I cant see that happening as that is todays date!

[Charley B]

I have heard May(hopefully this one!) regarding Iraqi Airlines. def not on the LGW arrivals for today!!!!..will be nice to see some different airlines:)
I cannot fathom why the US carriers just dont stay,not everyone wants to use LHR!!!
GIP have done so well...i miss Air Asia X A340,its nice to see the Hi Fly one when it visits .

[Wycombe]

Will bring back some memories for me to see "Indonesia" at LGW again.

It used to be multiple stops to CGK (via AUH and BKK on the trips I did in the 90's) and a change there to get to DPS, although I think there were some "direct" (ie, no airframe change) flights to DPS aswell.

They've been advertising heavily in the UK already (eg, Premiership footy matches) so hope they can make a go of it.....getting to DPS from the UK should be easier than it is today considering the numbers of us that go there.

[Skipness One Echo]

Philippine Airlines once they have there EU ban lifted
They're banned? Are you sure? Those B777s are brand new.

Garuda to launch Gatwick-Jakarta service - Business Traveller (http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/garuda-to-launch-gatwick-jakarta-service)

[chinapattern]

They're banned? Are you sure? Those B777s are brand new.

All Philippine carriers are currently banned from operating in the EU although its thought that PAL will be soon be exempt from this. They've got plans to re-launch flights to London, Paris, Rome and Frankfurt.

[Facelookbovvered]

Titan will base an A320 in LGW for the Summer flying for the usual suspects, BA/Mon and ad hoc stuff

[fjencl]

Thanks for the Titan LGW update.

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "The only downside to this is that the start date of Autumn 2013 is a longway off yet and as much as I want to see Gatwick with further long haul expansion the airport does not seem to hold on to them very long, it seems for every new long haul airline gained the airport seems to loose one at the same time meaning that by the time Garuda do start flights to LGW how long will the likes of Air China be at the airport."

The majority of longhaul flights at LGW will remain there only until they acquire slots at LHR at a price they can afford. It's as simple as that.

[canberra97]

Fairdealfrank

Well at least with Garuda they have had the experience at LGW after previously serving the airport for 23 years so they may stand a good chance of staying at LGW along with Emirates.

I dont want every long haul airline at LGW to move to LHR and some probably can not afford it anyway and therefore will stay at LGW but it is good to see a comeback with the recent new long haul airlines at LGW and may it continue 'hopefully'!

I do have fond memorys though of the viewing deck at LGW from 1980 onwards where you could look down on so many long haul airlines, exotic ones at that with the likes of Air Afrique, Air Gabon, Air Gambia, Air Lanka, Air New Zealand, Air Seychelles, Air Tanzania, Air Zimbabwe, ANA All Nippon Airways, Avianca, CAAC, Cameroon Airlines, Cathay Pacific, Garuda Indonesian, Korean Air, Philippine Airlines, Royal Brunei Airlines, Royal Nepal Airlines, Sierra Leone Airlines, Uganda Airlines, Yemenia etc along with the north American carriers such as Braniff International, CP Air, Delta, Pan Am, Peoples Express, Northwest Orient, TransAmerica, TWA, Wardair, Western, World Airways, etc, etc, etc :-)

Sorry for that but the nostlagia was getting the better of me!

[True Blue]

Everytime a new LH route is announced at Lgw, the first re-action is always"how long before they are off to LHr". We are told tha Lhr is full and it seems that it will be 15+ years before there is a new runway there, if ever. Before then two things are going to happen. 1. The economy will start improving. 2. Airlines will want to keep expanding, both current airlines and new ones to the UK. With that in mind, at some point new entrants to Lgw will have to stay there, they will not be able to get into Lhr even if they want. So over time, the number of new long and mid haul routes at Lgw will increase and they will stay there. At least, that is the way I see it.

TB

[Skipness One Echo]

So over time, the number of new long and mid haul routes at Lgw will increase and they will stay there. At least, that is the way I see it.
TB
That assumes a static market, however it's more dynamic than that.
LHR airlines go bust or have to leave (Malev, CSA and the like) and that churn means slots do open up to long haul newcomers. LHR was declared full and closed to all newcomers in 1977, some thirty six years ago (!)

[True Blue]

Yes but that churn will decrease. Ba now have a much larger % of the slots, they are not going to churn, unless something dramatic happens. The number of smaller, weaker airlines is going down as they are forced out, even that is happening at Lgw. Going forward, the rate of churn will not be so great, I believe. Airlines at Lhr will want to expand, they will also be fighting for what might become available.

TB

[Skipness One Echo]

Ba now have a much larger % of the slots, they are not going to churn, unless something dramatic happens. The number of smaller, weaker airlines is going down as they are forced out
Not really if you think about it. BA took out a major player, the churn of the rest of the players is peripheral to BA / VS / BD / EI / AC etc etc. Look at airlines like Arik Air, Kingfisher (recently gone), South African (sold 1/3 of their slots to SQ), QANTAS (cut their operation by 50%).

Churned out : Kingfisher, China Airlines, BWIA, Air Jamaica
Churned in : TAM, China Airlines, Aeromexico, China Southern

Gatwick has been saying forever that they stand to profit from a full LHR and yet in recent years since 2008 they have
LOST Etihad, Qatar, Delta, Northwest, USAirways, American
Gained then LOST : Air Nigeria, Virgin Nigeria, Hong Kong Express, OASIS, Mexicana, Korean Air
Gained : Vietnam Airlines, Air China, Carribbean Airlines (LHR exile)
Nothing has really changed and since Air China is upping capacity at LHR onto the B777-300ER lets see if LGW lasts the summer.
btw I would keep a close eye on Vueling, any tie up with BA at LGW would increase the IAG portfolio for BA and release slots for long haul.

[davidjohnson6]

Why do Vueling fly from Heathrow rather than Gatwick ? Struggling to see a commercial reason for the extra costbase to Vueling when they are not a network carrier. Yes, I know Heathrow gets higher yields, but places like A Coruna, Florence and Mallorca seem rather more leisure centric...

[FRatSTN]

Perhaps because LHR lacks those leisure centric flights, they do well on them since there isn't really a direct competitor, unlike the huge list at LGW.

[TartinTon]

I would suggest that the Vueling LHR slots will find their way to BA once the full takeover is complete. Slot sitting for the meantime and will then transfer to LGW in the fullness of time.

[Bagso]

LHR has a healthy % of leisure traffic...most of the time it likes to pretend its purely business.

Utter garbage !

Up till 2 years major organisations like SAGA who have a large network of holiday packages shipped everybody through LHR !

Many an argument with the Mother In Law who was going to Munich, she lives North Manchester, despite telling her that she shoud fly from Manchester she was told by the agent , "oh its only a small airport, there are no flights from up there to Germany":ugh:

BA, AirCanada, Singpore Holidays, Virgin Holidays etc etc etc ad nauseum

[pc.]

"We have the big EK bus(EK15,16) to look forward to on 26/3 again"

Am I correct in saying that is the Emirates Airbus A380 midday flight coming in to Gatwick again?...... If so that's great news. :ok:

Also is there any news yet of when Airbus A380's will start regularly using Gatwick?... hopefully sometime in 2013.

Thanks

pc.

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "Fairdealfrank

Well at least with Garuda they have had the experience at LGW after previously serving the airport for 23 years so they may stand a good chance of staying at LGW along with Emirates."

Will GA being doing CKG-LGW-CKG non-stop this time around?

Will BA be opening up an LHR-CKG-LHR route ahead of GA to scoop up the premium business and connecting pax?

Is the route busy enough for 2 carriers, now or in the future?


Quote: "Why do Vueling fly from Heathrow rather than Gatwick ? Struggling to see a commercial reason for the extra costbase to Vueling when they are not a network carrier. Yes, I know Heathrow gets higher yields, but places like A Coruna, Florence and Mallorca seem rather more leisure centric... "

Probably because they have the slots, they're like gold dust, you know!


Quote: "I would suggest that the Vueling LHR slots will find their way to BA once the full takeover is complete. Slot sitting for the meantime and will then transfer to LGW in the fullness of time."

Is this a done deal already?

[Omnipresent]

Assuming everything goes as planned, IAG expects to secure full ownership of Vueling in Q2 of this year.

[Charley B]

pc
Oh Yes......:)

Just a one off again apparently(at request of LGW who want to try out their new A380 gate at Nth Terminal!)...read that the other day on the local aviation society blog!
If all goes well that day..we can only hope the big bus appears soon after:ok:
It was nice that when there was chaos in the snow recently at LHR ,EK 29 was rescheduled to here for 2 days(as a 777)..could do with an extra flight,EK is always busy!

[Skipness One Echo]

Is that the new gate over the bridge?
I know BA don't like using Gates 102 and 111 with the B777s as it impacts on wheelchair users and mobility impaired peeps. An A388's worth of punters across the bridge is perhaps not ideal? Be great to see the big bus again though.

[pc.]

Great news about the A380 visiting Gatwick again on 26th March 2013.

Thanks Charley B :)

pc.

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "Many an argument with the Mother In Law who was going to Munich, she lives North Manchester, despite telling her that she shoud fly from Manchester she was told by the agent , "oh its only a small airport, there are no flights from up there to Germany""

That's depressing, hope this is not a common view among travel agents, the business community, and the public at large!

If it is, it explains in part why carriers believe that they cannot make money from operations at large UK airports, other than LHR.

Managements at MAN, BHX, GLA, and the rest have much work to do!

[SWBKCB]

Quote: "Many an argument with the Mother In Law who was going to Munich, she lives North Manchester, despite telling her that she shoud fly from Manchester she was told by the agent , "oh its only a small airport, there are no flights from up there to Germany"

Getting a bit off topic, but with my family and their friends in South Manchester the perception is the opposite - they expect to be able to fly to anywhere out of MAN and are surprised/disappointed when they can't!

[Charley B]

S1E
Not sure which is the 380 gate....i only got info off website of GAS
will be nice to see that again here...please no fog(or snow) that day!!
CB

[matt_0445]

Gate 110 is the new A380 gate.

[Charley B]

Thank You:) x

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "Getting a bit off topic, but with my family and their friends in South Manchester the perception is the opposite - they expect to be able to fly to anywhere out of MAN and are surprised/disappointed when they can't!"

Quite right! get the hump if unable to fly from LHR!

At least they're being positive, they have a "glass half-full" attitude.

[adfly]

Aegean appear to be dropping their daily Athens flight from the 30th March. Larnaca however is unaffected and the daily flight will be transferred from LHR on the 31st March.

[Heathrow Harry]

Garuda will be flying non-stop to Jakarta

they'll be using a new 777-300ER - they have 4 on order

Garuda to spread its wings to London (http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2013/02/04/garuda-spread-its-wings-london-s-gatwick-q4.html)

[jdcg]

What's the total flight time and likely routing for this?

[Heathrow Harry]

Not known but probably much the same as London - Singapore as far as the east coast of India then down to Sumatra and onwards to Jakarta

Great circle is 7284 miles cp 6765 London - Singapore so it should be OK eastbound but could be 15-16 hours west bound in winter

[LGS6753]

From Travel Mole:

Wow air is more than doubling its flights from London Gatwick to Reykjavik from June 2.

It will increase services from six times a week to 13 times a week.

Twice-daily flights will depart London at 12:15 and 20:40 on Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday with a daily flight on Saturday, departing at 12:15.

The airline will be increasing its fleet of Airbus A320s and introducing two new aircraft from next month.

[LGS6753]

Gatwick closed tonight - 9 flights diverted (EZY & TOM).

Reason, anyone?

[LGS6753]

Gatwick outlines plans for 'radical' changes (http://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?c=setreg&region=2&m_id=s~_rvY!s~m&w_id=8701&news_id=2005173)

Gatwick introducing real competition into the London market. This could adversely affect MAG's plans for STN.

[sanjaime]

Only 15 minutes away ?:ugh:

Rename Gatwick airport Croydon International, urges politician (From Croydon Guardian) (http://www.croydonguardian.co.uk/news/10225812.Rename_Gatwick_airport_Croydon_International__urges _politician/?ref=mr)

What planet are some of these guys on ?

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "Only 15 minutes away ?:ugh:

Rename Gatwick airport Croydon International, urges politician (From Croydon Guardian) (http://www.croydonguardian.co.uk/news/10225812.Rename_Gatwick_airport_Croydon_International__urges _politician/?ref=mr)

What planet are some of these guys on ?"

It's April 1st, doesn't time fly!

It gets worse, my local airport is being renamed "Hounslow (Dick Turpin) International Airport" (IATA code HDT).

Stupid b*****ds!

[johnnychips]

Dick Turpin was born in Essex, so that would be a better name for Southend or Boris Island. Famous residents of Hounslow you could name your airport after are Russell Grant or Phil Collins.

If you want to rename Gatwick, famous residents of Crawley are Alan Minter (a boxer, for younger readers), Gareth Southgate (footballer) and John George Haigh (acid bath killer).

At least you won't have to name your local airport after a fictional character.

[jerboy]

You know when somebody's 'flying the idea up the flagpole' that its got to be a joke.

Give him a break, he's just doing some blue sky thinking outside the box...

[canberra97]

Finally Iraqi Airways have officially announced there much anticipated flights from Baghad to London Gatwick.

Flights will commence on the 5th March 2013 with two direct flights from LGW to Baghdad and one to Sulaimaniya every week with the frequency increasing to 6 flights a week by 15th June 2013, flights will be operated by their brand new Airbus 330.

As per Iraqi Airways homepage

BGW-LGW; Tue, Thu - 13.00-20.00
ISU-LGW; Fri - 13.00-20.00

LGW-BGW; Tue, Thur - 22.00-06.30
LGW-ISU; Fri - 22.00-06.30



Good to see another new airline at LGW.

[Charley B]

Thanks for that ...great news:)

[adfly]

Good to see Iraqi finally start a 'proper' service, hopefully it will last!

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "Dick Turpin was born in Essex, so that would be a better name for Southend or Boris Island. Famous residents of Hounslow you could name your airport after are Russell Grant or Phil Collins."

BTW Dick Turpin tranacted much of his "business" on what is now Heathrow: the notorious (at that time) Hounslow Heath.

It is no co-incidence that there is a street called "Dick Turpin Way" at Hatton Cross, just off the airport, and a transport cafe (now long gone of course) of the same name on the A30.

[davidjohnson6]

BA are taking the fight at Gatwick to the LCCs by launching new fares that do not include checked bags in return for saving about £10 each way. Good to see BA not letting the orange brigade trample over them.

I notice however that on the Jersey route it makes Flybe less competitive, particularly if BA can beat them on both airfare and frequency. Given the landing fees very much favour larger aircraft, how long can Flybe sustain the Jersey route at Gatwick ?

[cornishsimon]

BE are loosing out at LGW big time,

As much as i would like to see BE go from the JER-LGW route would that not surely bring EZY onto the route ?

Regardless, due to the demand BA would have to add capacity ot introduce a JER-LCY/LHR rotation or two ?

[LNIDA]

BA need to raise their game at LGW to stay with the LoCo's. Norwegian are already the 3rd largest airline in terms of pax number behind BA & Easyjet and well ahead of FR.

NAS go to 4 x daily to OSL from 1st April with early departures each way, although only 3 airframes will night stop to start the new base, in and back out aircraft will ramp up flight numbers rapidly, coming from LPA,AGP,TFS & ALC

[Skipness One Echo]

Norwegian may well be this years Aer Lingus, they have as much brand recognition in the markets they're entering. btw Norwegian's codes are DY or NAX.....

What do you mean raise their game? They have Avios, lounge access and free drink and snack. Older B734s are being replaced by newer A319s. It's not a bad product to take to market.

People will choose Thomson, Monarch, easyJet or BA before Norwegian even crosses their mind. I have yet to see any form of advertising for this new venture at the London end.

[CabinCrewe]

Norwegian Air Shuttle has always been abbreviated to NAS. Im sure it wasn't suppose to represent an IATA/ICAO code

[LNIDA]

NAS have already a solid 8% of the LGW traffic, without doubt NAS challenge is to get people to try them on new routes, the product is very good and people will come back LGW traffic has a huge amount of repeat business and load factors on many of their routes is already high

[davidjohnson6]

LNIDA - I think the point Skipness is trying to make is that while Norwegian may have excellent brand recognition by people is SE England fo travel to Scandinavia, in the same way that Aer Lingus are well known for flying to Ireland, neither Aer Lingus in 2009 nor Norwegian in 2013 are widely known by the general public for flying from Gatwick to the Med or Canaries. Aer Lingus did at least make a good try at publicising the fact, running ads on TV and large outdoor poster ads and in newspapers. I have seen very little advertising telling the public masses that Norwegian flies from Gatwick to Barcelona or Rome. The likely impact is slow bookings - either seats fly empty or are sold at firesale prices.

Norwegian have added a lot of capacity on non Scandi routes at Gatwick. The flights to Oslo should sell well, but when Joe Bloggs books to go to Malaga it's Easyjet or Monarch that pops into his head. Norwegian just doesn't get a look-in.

[LNIDA]

Aer Lingus brought nothing new to the market, NAS have free Wifi, free cartoons & movies on board, sky interior means big bins, and allocated seating, a website that is transparent in a way only legacy carriers come close to & you can through book to destinations that require a stop at OSL/CPH/ARN/HEL so if you need to get some where obscure that's of the normal radar you can and it all adds volume.

Brand awareness is of course low, but the days of billboard and TV advertising are over, any route search out of London brings up Norwegian banner adds & you can't miss the aircraft with DCR nose can you?

On time performance is way above either BA or Monarch and NAS cost base is much lower than either.

I think we can all agree that brand awareness is the challenge and they are not adding massive of capacity to the med routes, but the world is changing there are an awful lot of English on the Nordic routes and the product is well known in LPA & TFS

I have flown with MON EZY & BA out LGW in the past 6 months, EZY are the best for on time, but it can be a scrum,BA have suffered with poor staff attitude on the ground due to contracting out and Monarch well where do you start? They still operate like a charter airline and what's a few hours delay between friends

[vectisman]

Cornishsimon
Why would you want to see Flybe off the Jersey route? On what evidence do you say they are losing out bigtime at Gatwick? They have adjusted their network there and seem to be holding their own against EI.
Flybe provide useful competition with BA on the Jersey route. Always good to have a choice.
Maybe your dislike has more to do with never forgiving them for taking on the London-Newquay route!!
Your obsession with wanting airlines, and I guess in your view it would have to be BA, to fly from all over the world to Newquay may be clouding your judgement.

V.

[beauport potato man]

EZY have been in talks with the States of Jersey with a view to doing the JER route from LGW. But the States are very protective over Flybe and know full well that EZY pull routes quickly when they don't perform. Which *could* stitch up Jersey in the long run leaving them with only one carrier.

All this is from the horses mouth, commercial dept at EZY.

The interesting thing now is the redundancies in JER at BE. 11 or 12 pilots. Equivalent to one airframe. They only have 2 based there. It's illegal to make people redundant then ship people in to do the same job so does this mean one airframe is going??

Interesting times.

And btw, I take a great interest in this as I'm a Jersey resident and an EZY captain.

[macuser]

I know what you mean BPM but I heard quite a while ago that BE we're very much over crewed on the JER based Dash 8 and some pilots were only flying 2days per week.

[cornishsimon]

Cornishsimon
Why would you want to see Flybe off the Jersey route? On
what evidence do you say they are losing out bigtime at Gatwick? They have
adjusted their network there and seem to be holding their own against EI.

Flybe provide useful competition with BA on the Jersey route. Always good to
have a choice.
Maybe your dislike has more to do with never forgiving them
for taking on the London-Newquay route!!
Your obsession with wanting
airlines, and I guess in your view it would have to be BA, to fly from all over
the world to Newquay may be clouding your judgement.

V.




vectisman i think with all due respect that your trying to see things that iv not said.

The reason i suggest that BE are not doing quite so well at LGW is due to Gatwicks charges for smaller aircraft, ie the DH8.

In fact the BE LGW-NQY passenger numbers are up month on month for the last few months compared to last year, long may it continue, if it does continue no doubt BE will look to add an additional rotation, at least for the summer season ?



Maybe your dislike has more to do with never forgiving them
for taking on
the London-Newquay route!!
Your obsession with wanting
airlines, and I
guess in your view it would have to be BA, to fly from all over
the world to
Newquay may be clouding your judgement.


:ugh: Or maybe not hey!


cs

[pc.]

In the last few months I have flown twice to Tenerife with Monarch out of Gatwick.
On both outbound legs I've ended up in their "old banger" an Airbus A300. (G-Mons).
Worse aircraft I've ever flown in... terrible legroom and no cooling air vents.
In fact the vents are disguised as lights!!!!!

Anyhow I will not fly with Monarch again until they get rid of their three A300's.

So next week will try out the EZY 8703 down to Tenerife.

And have decided to give Norwegian a try in October, again down to Tenerife.

Ezy ticket price was £240.
Norwegian cost a very reasonable£165. Both round trip inc luggage, seats, booking charges for credit card etc.

I am looking forward to trying Norwegian as apparently they have internet available on the flight.
It will be interesting tracking the flights progress with Flightradar24 on my netbook.

pc.

[vectisman]

Cornishsimon
Part of my final comment was 'tongue in cheek'. You should have spotted it!!I am far too nice a person to get that personal!!

V

[canberra97]

Croation Airlines will axe Gatwick flights as from 01st April 2013.

[j636]

DY add a weekly IBZ route from 25 May.

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "BA are taking the fight at Gatwick to the LCCs by launching new fares that do not include checked bags in return for saving about £10 each way. Good to see BA not letting the orange brigade trample over them."

Excellent decision! pity it can't be done accross the whole network.

[LAX_LHR]

Just an info check, has the EK A380 been fully confirmed for 26th?

Reason I ask is that the EK site and the GDS systems I view all still say the B777-300 is still down to operate the flight?

[Charley B]

The A 380 is definately on for Tuesdays EK15/16 flight..rumoured (could still bechanged)to be A6-EDO
read this on John Dyers daily blog on GAS on 22/3
Looking forward to seeing it depart on 8R..easterlies will be here all week i think!


Emirates website is now showing A380:)

[adfly]

It seems Ryanair have chosen to re-start their Kaunus (5pw) and Seville (3pw) routes from 31st March.

[TCX69]

British Airways A319 G-DBCJ which is now LGW based will be joined by G-DBCC, G-DBCG, G-DBCI & G-DBCK which are due to ferry down from LHR this evening...

[macuser]

What's happening to the 737-400s at LGW then?

[cornishsimon]

What's happening to the 737-400s at LGW then?



As far as im aware they will all remain, however during the winter 13/14 season they will start to be phased out.

Normally the LGW base will get some Airbus aircraft head from LHR for summer, however this year they will have some extra and those they wont head back to LHR at the end of the summer schedule.


cs

[True Blue]

According to another blog site, Germania will launch Lgw - Pristina flights from 29 June. The flights operate Wednesday and Saturday evening, ex Lgw returning to Lgw about 2.50am the next morning. Are these scheduled or charter? Is Germania planning something bigger at Lgw?

TB

[TCX69]

Germania are basing a 737-700 at LGW for the summer. With the PRN flights, it now looks like the flying programme for LGW will be:

Mon
CFU

Tue
CHQ

Wed
PRN

Thu
SMI/LXS

Fri
VOL/JSI

Sat
PRN

Sun
PVK
KLX

[sam1993]

Few small additions to the flying schedule:

Mon: CFU
Tue: CHQ
Wed: KGS, PRN
Thu: SMI/LXS, PVK
Fri: JSI/VOL, HER*
Sat: EFL, PRN
Sun: PVK, KLX

*To be confirmed

It will also be an A319 based at Gatwick this summer.

[looseheadprop]

Hear one of LGWs big slot portfolios is on the move....big interest from Vueling and Ryanair rumoured. When added to Norwegian's announcement looks like we'll get some proper competition for EZY!

[Charley B]

Intriguing??
Tell us more.....;)

[adfly]

I'm going to suggest Flybe for this one, can't see BA cutting LGW that quickly.

[Charley B]

That was my thought as well!
Sad though if it is Flybe.they have been here quite a while

[Flightrider]

Could be EI. LGW is not exactly going well.

[adfly]

DUB can't be doing too badly for them, it has been increased from 4-8 daily progressively since it was re-introduced a few years ago, and NOC seems to hold its own. Not sure what the future for BHD is, I'd expect it to stick around if Flybe are the rumoured airline to be moving though.

[Artie Fufkin]

BA to Vueling. Surely?

Isn't that one of the principle reasons for the acquisition?

[Skipness One Echo]

Flybe are struggling and couple this with having profitability at Gatters marginalised by GIPs new pricing structure, it might be time to leave the London market. I suspect Vueling will be the new face of IAG at Gatwick but this all seems a little soon for that.

[EI-BUD]

I would question this rumour strongly. Sounds strange to me.

There is now way BE will roll over at LGW. Consider the routes it operates, long served routes. Like channel Island routes, who are up against airlines like BA, Aurigny etc. BE unlikely to drop the likes of GCI or BHD for that matter.

Would be amazed if BE axed LGW. Maybe scale back and increase aircraft size on some routes, but not a withdrawl I would have thought.

[adfly]

I could see them dropping BHD and possibly GCI and JER as they are all strongly competed on (EZY, EI, BA, GR). NQY they have 100% of the market so I could see that staying and from INV they are the only carrier to offer onward connections. NCL could also get dropped as loads have been declining the past couple of years. As for EGC (Bergerac) its probably just a case of it will operate if there is space for it (assuming it makes money!). IOM will probably stay for the moment, possibly get reduced to 3 daily if EZY have significantly impacting P2P/leisure traffic/

[FRatSTN]

FlyBe should perhaps consider a shift to Stansted. BHD, INV, IOM, NCL and NQY are all not served from Stansted, all of which (I'm not so sure on INV) have been served from Stansted in the past. 2 of which were FR routes and 1 of which was EZY. There is certainly a market for these routes and APD and increased taxation has been the main cause of these carriers axing them.

GCI and JER are very underserved from Stansted, especially JER, with Aurigny being the only carrier serving the Channel Islands. Again, FR and EZY are not at all likely to serve these routes from Stansted so again, would be a sensible option for BE.

At Gatwick there is direct competition on BHD from EI (indirectly to BFS with EZY), direct on INV and IOM with EZY, BA on JER and with GR on GCI.

BE are not in a greatly competitive position at the moment and instead competing with all these carriers indirectly will be better for them in my opinion.

Yes Stansted lacks long-haul but BE could use the LCC aspect of Stansted to promote domestic services to the airport for people to use them as a connecting flight to the main base of LCC for onward flights (remember STN has many unique destinations in Europe that very few if any other UK airport serve, so there could be a demand for this.)

I can't really see what real good being at Gatwick is doing BE as they are burried in fierce competition and are disadvantaged by Gatwick's charging structure. They would be better to go from somewhere much more free from competition and who will give them a fairer price. As for direct travel into London before anybody starts, it really isn't that much more difficult nor expensive to get to London from Stansted than it is from Gatwick.

[BFS101]

From BHD BE provide interlinging and code-share agreements, and if I'm correct, is the only airlines to currently do this from Northern Ireland at LGW.

BA codeshare on the flight, and I'm aware that Virgin Holidays use BE to interline. Other airlines also have such arrangements.

If your final destination from NI is London, you already have a vast choice of routes, times and airports, therefore BE moving to STN I see as a complete no brainer. As FRatSTN has stated there may be a use to connect to loco services from STN but again EZY would already provide this, serving the Belfast market. I would surmise that there is greater demand to connect the destinations via LGW than would be to change to STN.

Also the ability to have formal arrangements with the Gatwick carriers, rather than a loose do-it-youself connection via STN.

[Haven't a clue]

FWIW as an IOM-LGW FF there's no way I would want to go to STN. It's too far out from most of the places I go in London, and it's hopeless for an LHR connection. Such a move IMHO would shift all IOM-London traffic to easyJet to LGW or BACF to LCY.

[FRatSTN]

BE would pick up new customers if they went to Stansted...

Customers who want to travel to areas in north/east London where Stansted is more convenient for example.

Customers who had previously used routes such as BHD, NCL and NQY from Stansted when served by FR and EZY.

Customers who are currently having to do what "Haven't a clue" is concerned about, having to travel to a less convenient airport because they haven't the choice.

BE would have more of an opportunity to build a stronger customer base by serving a currently underserved area of the market, instead of fighting for the same customers from the same areas as EZY and BA.

[Barling Magna]

I can't see why flyBE would want to move to Ryanair's major base in the UK. I'm sure IAG are doing their best to attract airlines away from other London airports, but flyBE would be one of the last that should take the bait....... mind you, airline managements don't always make the right decisions.....

[mikkie4]

wouldn t BHD,INV,IOM,NCL, be better served from SEN? cheap landing fees runways long enough,no competition,just right for flybe

[cornishsimon]

How much of flymaybe traffic is connecting onward at LGW ?


cs

[BFS101]

BE would pick up new customers if they went to Stansted...

Customers who want to travel to areas in north/east London where Stansted is more convenient for example.EZY already operate to both STN and SEN from Belfast (International). Demand on SEN appears weak with an already reduction on flights! I doubt BE would generate any substantial growth in these markets.

[FRatSTN]

Belfast-City Airport (BHD) is only served from Heathrow and Gatwick now in London.

With BHD being substantially more convenient for pratically anybody in Belfast, I think a lot of people, if not the majority would still prefer going from BHD to LHR or LGW rather than travel out to BFS to get into STN, LTN or SEN if they were heading more to the north or east of London.

I think BE would do well on a STN-BHD route. BmiBaby were the most recent to operate it and were reportedly very pleased with its performance.

[BFS101]

Similarly EZY found no net gain when they tried BFS vs BHD with Luton.

It was also alleged that while FR were able to get bums on seats to STN, yield was just not there from Belfast.

Anyway, I'm sure time will tell...

[canberra97]

Barling Magma

I think you meant MAG 'Manchester Airport Group' rather then IAG which is the 'International Airline Group'.

And FratStn I and many others appreciate your total enthusiasm for STN but you can't assume that every new airline that you would like to see at STN will be a success for lots of reasons!

I am not bashing STN as I find it a great airport to fly from and I have done so over 100 times and as far as people saying it is in the wrong area well living in Southamton as I do it has taken me on a nice clear morning only one hour and 30 mins to reach the airport from my front drive to the long term car park at STN not bad really as LGW can easily take as long although LHR is only about an hour's drive but that's only to Terminal 5.

[davidjohnson6]

Nothing like a possible-but-as-yet-unverified rumour to get people posting their own bits of random speculation. Who knows - maybe Easyjet is leaving Gatwick because management has decided they don't like flying to airports with a G in the name ? :-)

[Barling Magna]

Canberra97: yes, indeed I meant MAG of course....... age is catching up on me.

I once travelled by road from Winchester to Southend in 1 hour 30 minutes, but many other times it took an hour longer as I'm sure it would have done to STN - the M25 (and M3 and A127) can be real b*ggers........ and I seem to have been caught in jams on the M11 almost every time I drive south from visiting friends in Suffolk.....

This flying business is all very well, but getting to the airport is the slow and dangerous bit of the journey........