GATWICK

[pamann]

Thanks for the advice! No more chasing the bus for me then either! I'll park near the first bus stop or near, and if I'm late at least I'll still have a car when I get back from where ever it is that Pam needs to be.;)

[racedo]

Apparently Sat afternoon the Gatwick Tesco just past the Holiday Inn had flooding of customer car park within a very short space of time with customers running from the store trying to get their cars away.

The drainage system for Gatwick goes into River Mole and it couldn't cope.
.

[jetset lady]

BAA charge the airline company for the privilege of the airline employee parking in this car park so, surely, it must be BAA liability for the damage.

You'd think so wouldn't you but BAA have today said that it will take them 3 months to decide whether they are liable or not. In the meantime, crew and ground staff are stuck without cars and many of the insurance companies are refusing courtesy cars stating that it is down to "an act of God". They are having to fork out a fortune for hire cars just to get to work and back.

Merry bloody Christmas from BAA! :mad:

[LGWAlan]

And this would be the same river Mole that flooded the old peoples home just off airport too

[glider12000]

Viking Airlines LGW base begins operations tomorrow with 737-800.

1st route LGW-HRG (Hurghada, Egypt)

[Provance]

Rumor from airliners.net is that EI are to announce Gatwick as a new short-haul base from tomorrow

[Ransman]

Yep, I was parked bottom right, wish I'd known the history of the site, would have stayed on the high ground. Vectra now with Stevens Vauxhall, Crawley, having estimates prepared for the insurance co. Seems the water was up to the door handles. Bugger:uhoh: New model launched, the Vauxhall Aquarium :\

[eu01]

A group led by Virgin Atlantic and EasyJet has pulled out of the bidding for Gatwick airport, The Times said today, citing a spokesman for Virgin Atlantic. The group will not put its own money into any deal, offering just advice to other bidders instead, the spokesman told the newspaper.

A unit of Germany’s Hochtief AG, and Citigate Infrastructure, a group including Citigroup Inc., will probably bid for Gatwick, while Manchester Airports Group has been unsuccessful in raising financing so far.

[ArtfulDodger]

Call me out of date if you've seen this before but humour me and goto the URL below (very near LGW) and see what's there . . . .


Google Maps (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=116399608351672092652.000461de9cfed62fecc3b&t=k&ll=51.165109,-0.066047&spn=0.012043,0.032959&z=16)

[Shyted]

I would say its a US Airways 762...........

[colegate]

Just one example of why BAA is not the slightest bit interested in its customers certainly at LGW. I was in the security queue this am at around 0500. There was a female security officer there who ordered pax "Take off your coats and belts" Not so much as a please. Everybody in the queue was asking why they were being treated so rudely. We all felt like cattle. Thanks BAA. We pay a huge a huge amount just to walk through your airport and that is how you treat us.

[londonmet]

BAA security staff on the main are pigs. End of.

[daz211]

I see the FR5568 ALC-LGW has been Diverted to STN.
Is this due to the snow ? if so how bad is it over there ?

[londonmet]

EGKK

Q) EGTT/QMRLC/IV/NBO/A/000/999/5109N00011W005
FROM: 09/02/01 19:59 TO: 09/02/01 21:15
E) RWY 08R/26L CLOSED DUE WX

L Met

[Charley B]

Runway is shut at LGW as has iced over(think part of it has) and earliest it will open is 21.15 tonight GMT
Lots of diverts!
We have had 1 inch appx of snow here tonight
Fun--I think not!

[LTNman]

I see the FR5568 ALC-LGW has been Diverted to STN.

Actually it is on stand 22 at Luton

[DOOBIE]

LTNman you just beat me to it.

Also here from Lgw are EZY738, EZY5296 and EZY5478, with CNO623 on approach. A BA/Flyer RJ100 has also just diverted in from LCY.

[daz211]

Yer sorry now up-dated on FR website :ugh:.

FR5568 diverted to LTN due snow At STN Pax coached to LGW :eek:.

And again corrected to diverted to LTN due snow at LGW :ok:

[Le Tirer]

What is the point of the 'Live Flight Arrivals' if the information is so inaccurate?

BAA website for LGW currently at (2112) shows

WOW110 cancelled - actually diverted to Southampton
BA2865 delayed - actually diverted to Bournemouth (landed 2015)
BA8087 delayed - actually diverted to Bournemouth (landed 2021)
BA2467 delayed - actually diverted to Bournemouth (landed 2028)
FR1126 expected 2025 - actually diverted to Bournemouth (landed BOH 2018!)

It does manage to show the other flights that went to BOH as diversions (NAX1342, TCX475L, BA2883)

FR118 and FR1184 are also both shown as cancelled although the Ryanair website says they were diverted to Birmingham!

LT

[daz211]

I understand what you say, I hate the fact that they cant say
FLT 5654 diverted to YYY, this would be very helpfull.

I have seen on the BA website that afew BA's have diverted to STN
but nothing on BAA STN webste.

I also understand that the diverted flights may well just be holding at
other airports but still if Ryanair can update there flights with lots of info
I would think other airlines and airports could do the same.

[Charley B]

LGW is STILL shut-we have had no further snow since 19.00 hrs appx-so not quite sure what is going on!

THINK LGW MAY BE OPENING SOON!
GOOD NEWS AT LAST!

[daz211]

I live 10 mins from STN and it has been snowing here since 2000
dont know how the Airport is hold up but all seems ok at the moment
even though there is a few inches in my garden .

[Provance]

hey folks

How are EI doing on the development of awareness of their Gatwick base ??

Are londoners even aware of EI's impending presence ??

[Shamrock350]

Well Aer Lingus have an advertising campaign in the London area, it's just print and radio at the moment. I've seen at least one advert everyday in the local papers and last night the ITV news showed a group of people huddled under a bus shelter with an Aer Lingus advert for glowing in the dark beside them. A TV campaign is due to start probably next month and everyone who has signed up for email offers will have been sent an email with details about fares from LGW yesterday. Aer Lingus will need to do more and keep it up throughout the Spring.

Taking a quick look at the Aer Lingus website shows that Malaga, Faro and even Knock seem quite popular with increased fares and busier seat maps on a number of dates.

Easyjet has launched three new routes from Gatwick in direct competition with Aer Lingus. Munich, Vienna and Zurich will start in early April but Aer Lingus is offering lower fares.

[airnoc]

Good to see knock route doing well on booking. Wonder will O'Leary jump in on the route like with Easyjet and leave no service to the west of Ireland?

[True Blue]

Flybe has announced Lgw - Dus today. With EI also launching at Lgw today and Norwegian transferring most of it's routes there, is the worst over for Lgw now? Could we start to see a gradual recovery at Lgw?

True Blue

[jettesen]

we must not forget that the load factors on aer lingus might be good, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they are taking away from other carriers like easyjet or ryanair etc. U have to remem,ber that this year, ther are 3 less airlines flying these routes from LGW this year, with the demise of my travel, first choice and GB airways. ok first choice and my travel have merged with other carriers, but there is less capacity on these routes.

There is plenty of room for Aer lingus here and think they will do well

[racedo]

Its because there is a common travel area between them and Gatwick so no passport is required.

You can still go through normal passport control.

Reason for boarding card is to ensure you came off flight but even this is a security risk as possible to have people switch boarding cards in a toilet.

[davedog]

No requirement to been seen by UK Border Agency (Passport Control). Common Travel Area (CTA) controls are usually manned by the Police for their own checks e.g. troubles in N Ireland etc. or they were probably making sure that you were not international arrivals, hence the requirement to produce your boarding card, so that those who are required to be seen by UK Border Agency are.

I do not think quoting Article 22 is going to get you far when standing in the queue, but try it and see what reply you get!

Regards

Davedog

[racedo]

Dave

In LGW Sth Terminal there is a separate corridor to the side that you use and manned by border agency...well when press the buzer he /she comes running from there. Its a bit outdated and likely to change in the future.

[MaxReheat]

Because the 'authorities' still earnestly believe that all of Irish origin are coming to blow up the UK and all residents of the offshore islands are international currency smugglers. :)

[racedo]

Because the 'authorities' still earnestly believe that all of Irish origin are coming to blow up the UK and all residents of the offshore islands are international currency smugglers.

Think its more to do with the layout of the terminal than anything else as domestic in South have a separate arrival area and not sure it would be big enough to cope with other flights.

North Terminal Irish flights are treated same as UK Domestic so no consistency in the airport.

[Steviec9]

Brought up the same problem last week myself in other forum (link below). Whatever the technical reason, it's aggravating, especially as most travellers are not warned to have their boarding card, rather than passport, ready for inspection and the queue gets even longer and more impatient.

http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf-self-loading-freight/364176-uk-borders-shaming-6.html

[Jes]

I shall reply, despite the fact that this should not be in a separate thread.

I once tried to beat the queue by going to a desk with no queue, and was refused access, being sent to join the scrum. When I asked why, I was told the reason, and it makes sense to me..."because you have to be photographed."

[Steviec9]

..."because you have to be photographed."

????? By whom? Why? Where? I don't recall ever being photographed in ARRIVALS (unless, shhhh, we're talking secret cameras?). Certainly photographed at LGW departures and then checked against photo at gate, which makes sense to avoid international pax being given access to ROI/UK flights.

[Haven't a clue]

At Gatwick they take pictures of domestic arrivals on arrival and only allow you to exit landside if you match the computer stored photo. Something to do with mixing arriving and departing pax in the South Terminal. It works fairly well for gates 1-10; can't comment about elsewhere.

[Steviec9]

Never happened to me on an arriving flight from Ireland - and I've been through loads of times in last few years. Straight off plane, up to immigration hall, sent via yon old feller on the Irish/Channel Islands desk, give him your boarding card, and then through the perspex tunnel and out and up into Baggage Hall. NEVER been photographed. So now we appear have three arrivals procedures at LGW South:

1. International pax via UK Border control (passports)
2. ROI/CI pax with no photos via one man desk (boarding cards)
3. Domestic pax with photos via one man desk (boarding cards)

[racedo]

Steviec9 - yup you have summed up all 3 procedures now in operation.:ok:

[BladePilot]

Was always referred to as the CTA or Common Travel Area. Agreement between the British and Irish Governments no passport check required so no need for Immigration Officers. It's a bit like a domestic trip with a twist!
UK Special Branch still have a particular interest in arrivals from Eire and can often be found waiting behind desks clearly marked with the Poilice Force crest to check your identity/documents by request. In some airports they may have assumed a 'passive' role where you may be asked to use a channel where you will be asked to provide proof of which flight you've just arrived on by presenting either your boarding card or flight confirmation documentation to a civilian (airport or private security) whether you see or don't see a member of the SP when you arrive they will see you as you will always pass by a camera taking either video or stills, don't expect the camera to be painted bright orange and have a big sign under it saying 'smile please'!

[Steviec9]

So, in theory, I could be a non-UK/ROI national aware of this system and require entry to the UK without an immigration check. I say again, I have NEVER seen a clearly identified Police presence on the CTA Channel - only one airport official collecting boarding passes. I travel through here twice a month at the very least.

(i) book myself on a Ryanair Ireland-LGW flight and print the online Boarding Pass, tearing off the lower portion as though I have actually used it.
(ii) actually travel to LGW South on a flight from God knows where and hang around until the 'pretend' flight arrives from Ireland
(iii) go through the 'one man' channel, presenting my spurious Ryanair boarding pass, as no photo ID required.
(iv) Bingo - I'm in and completely under the radar. All the time smiling at the UK Border Agency staff turning back bona-fide UK passport holders because it's not their job to let them through if they've arrived from Ireland.

Doesn't it make you feel safe?!

[Dropline]

Steviec9

If you arrive from Ireland (ROI) you are an International arrival not Domestic, hence no need for the photograph on arrival. When you get to Passport Control, because Ireland is part of the Common Travel Area, there is no need for your passport to be checked, hence the separate arrivals corridor at Passport Control. UK Domestic arrivals come through a different channel and collect their baggage from a different area. This involves them mixing with departing passengers, hence the photos are taken on arrival to ensure only genuine domestic arrivals are able to exit through the domestic channel.

[Steviec9]

Dropline - thanks for clarification. Still leaves the loophole I have described above for ROI arrivals without photos.

[Skipness One Echo]

So are we saying that anyone can avoid UK Border checks by coming in through Eire? My other half is American and came back complete with a working visa that took months to get that was never even checked on entry as he came back BOS-DUB-LHR. What are we missing here? Where's the check?

[Steviec9]

Skipness - I certainly believe so (but am hoping to be proved wrong).

Everyone believed to be arriving from ROI at LGW South is put through a single channel (manned by a single airport employee) in the International Arrivals Hall with only a boarding card stub as proof of identity and of origin. Possibility (very remote in my experience) that Police may be on hand to ask for further identity checks...

Of course, official answer is that all pax originating from ROI will have cleared EU Immigration check there (or wherever their original point of entry to EU was). My point is regardless of that assumption, you can still circumnavigate UK Border Control at LGW South by the method I have described above.

[Munnyspinner]

No. My understanding is as follows.

Border control will still apply at the airport of arrival DUB. Irish authorities would need to be satified that passport and VISA were valid even if this was a flight transfer. DUB - LHR is non domestic intra european. In Shengen Countries EU pax can travel freely across boundaries without Passport control but UK is Non Shengen. Therefore all arriving pax ofrom outwith UK are effectivley subject to passport control. This would include anyone travelling ona non EU passport.

All pax entering EU and UK are notified by airlines to border control. i.e. Immigration know who is coming before you get to the passport desk. Unless there is a physical need to check documents I assume they will only filter check papers - random.

At LGW were domestic pax mix with international pax e.g. at S terminal arriving Squeezy jet pax mix with departing pax in a common departures/arrival area. There was a potential risk that pax from say Barcelona could swap boarding cards with pax to Glasgow, before Passport control. This would ppotentially allow an illegal to board ona false passport at Barcelona and then avoid passport control on a domestic link LGW tpo GLA.

The photo ID/ Landing card check provides a means to ensure that all arrivals do in fact pass from the aircraft to landside. Any swap of Info would show up at the check where the operator can reconcile the bar code with a photo. Missing pax or wrong ID's will show up.

At other UK airports where pax mix there is less chance of this happening as , from a common lounge, individual gates are policed by airline staff. Boarding card/ photo ID and passports are checked depending on final destination of the flight. Remember, carrying someone without appropriate documentation will land the Airline with cost of repatriation etc.

[racedo]

So are we saying that anyone can avoid UK Border checks by coming in through Eire?

UK and Ireland systems are linked for checking on immigration as you correctly point out that people can use either country to get to the other so they do know anybody turned down in one. People also use Belfast but now there are sporadic checks by Irish Immigration on trains and buses and also by PSNI at Belfast airport.

If get kicked out by UK or Ireland then pretty much you can guarantee that entry into the other one later automatically is flagged.

[racedo]

Steviec9

Point you made is correct as had highlighted it in second post that it is possible for 2 people to meet in Toilet and switch boarding passes.

Issue is less of a problem with online checkin as need to put in passport number etc so that will show whether you can validly travel.

[Steviec9]

The photo ID/ Landing card check provides a means to ensure that all arrivals do in fact pass from the aircraft to landside. Any swap of Info would show up at the check where the operator can reconcile the bar code with a photo. Missing pax or wrong ID's will show up.


At LGW South, there is NO Photo ID check for ROI arriving pax, only UK domestic. Accept that there might be some later reconciliation problems with a spurious boarding card but there is NO Photo Check during ROI arrivals, you do NOT show a passport or any form of ID and there is NO computerised check of boarding cards during ROI arrivals, you just shove your boarding card stub in the fella's hand and walk off. By the time any later (manual) reconcillation has taken place, miscreant is well away from airport.

My original loophole method above still stands - it IS possible. I accept all that everyone here has said regarding the various controls, hidden police presence etc. It does not alter the fact that there are no actual, real time, identity checks carried out during the ROI arrivals process as there are for other (non CTA) international arrivals and even UK domestic arrivals. On the reverse journey, the Gardai check ID of all incoming passengers (certainly at DUB and SNN, which I use), regardless of origin. They accept a UK Driving Licence but have even said 'we just need to make sure who you are'.

[Haven't a clue]

As I understand it the eBorder program will soon require all RoI arrivals to go through passport control.

[Steviec9]

About time. At least it will cut down on the time it takes to exit the airport after an ROI arrival (which was my original gripe on the other forum - 2 Ryanair arrivals = 300+ people queuing for the single channel, looking for boarding cards and being refused by UK Border Entry staff the option of using a passport).

Until the CTA is scrapped and we're all treated to an ID check under the new scheme, loopholes exist at LGW South Border Control.

[racedo]

Steve you are correct.

Think the issue is the complete lack of consistency across All UK airports even terminals.

[qwertyplop]

Could anyone explain why there is seperate passport channel for people coming into Gatwick (and other airports?) from Ireland and the Channel Islands? Also, when there is a queue of 180 people queuing to get through this one man door why won't the other desks with no queue help and let you through the EU passport channel with your British passport?
Finally, what is the need to give the fellow your boarding pass?

You cannot go through Border Control - so scrub that - not everyone travelling on these routes carries a passport either - and there's no border to go through as you are in the CTA or in-country so no UKBA interest as it's outside of their operating area.

This is an airport/police issue, perhaps someone should take it up robustly with the police officer conducting the controls as his idea of customer service levels don't match your expectations of the service you believed you've paid for.......:cool:

[BladePilot]

Avoid the hassle of airports and take the ferry from Northern Ireland to the UK.
Guys you're missing something really obvious here.. the border between Eire and Northern Ireland. Have you ever crossed it? Would you know when you had crossed it whilst blasting up the new motorway? Any non EU/UK person who has arrived in the Republic of Ireland can cross into Northern Ireland whenever they want and as many times as they want because there are no Immigration checks done. The risk they take is they may be caught whilst strolling around in Belfast or wherever they end up, no big deal they'll just get a caution and be sent back across the 'border'!

BTW have you never wondered why they have those big mirrors in the entry channels at airports? they're not there for you to admire yourself, guess who sits behind them? Cameras, mirrors they're everywhere.

[qwertyplop]

Please don't pick your teeth when you admire yourself in them. It makes me sick looking back at you. :)

Especially you Capot. :ok:

[Charlie Roy]

Gatwick - Madrid

[Seljuk22]

EZY is increasing flights to MUC from 1 to 3 daily; ZRH, VIE and CGN will be increased from one to double daily from winter.

[racedo]

Rumour is that the North - South Terminal link is due to shut in the summer for a complete rebuild taking a couple of years with service being provided by buses during this time.

[virginblue]

At least in the case of CGN, the logical explanation is flybe's new service from LGW to DUS. It allows day-returns, so Easyjet had to to something about its CGN service, I guess.

[EISNN]

RUMOUR has it that EI may start operating A330 services from LGW non stop direct to JFK and possibly caribbean routes starting from winter '09 or maybe spring '10. Anyone else heard anything of this on the grapevine?

[airhumberside]

What are the air service treaties like between the UK and Carribean countries? Have they been replaced by EU wide treaties or would EI be reliant on getting permission as a foriegn airline from the relevant governments?

[dwlpl]

BA are supposed to be stopping the Gatwick/JFK route from winter 2009.

[adfly]

is anyone going to operate the lgw-jfk route after ba pull out??? EI, VS, DL???

[c.r.m what is it]

Would have to say i doubt it, especially not Delta, will eat my computer if they announce that, would have to be a charter type of airline, that don't have any premium cabins to fill, because BA's WT cabin was always oversold, but there ain't enough money in that!!

[Skipness One Echo]

LGW-JFK gets hammered as it is up against LHR-JFK so not with an established airline. AA, DL, NW and CO were very keen to move round the M25.

Incidentally, seems Air Namibia have suspended LGW-WDH at very short notice, ie today.

[goldeneye]

Air Namibia announced the closure of the LGW-WDH at the end of april. They plan to re-launch the route in the future, but have given no idea of dates.

[c.r.m what is it]

Supprised it does'nt operate via Fra to be honest, maybe that flight is always full! Never saw many people getting on it, and there were offering some very juicy fares on it recently. Will be sad to not see the 340 parked up, under the control tower!!!

[Whalerider]

Used them last year - good loads. Very enjoyable country - hope they do restart as I was hoping to go again next year.

Perhaps service via FRA might be the answer.

[Seljuk22]

Delta LGW-CVG last flight on 30th August.

[Alan Tracey]

BA are supposed to be stopping the Gatwick/JFK route from winter 2009.

I to have heard that the JFK may become a BA codeshare on a new shamrock coloured service.....

[johnrizzo2000]

Considering the acting Chief of Aer Lingus said that no 330 will be based outside for Ireland in the short term, means LGW-JFK seems unlikely

[Donkey497]

what's the latest news on the sale of Gatwick by Ferrovial?

[Howsie2007]

According to BAA the sale is still ongoing and they are speaking to 'multiple bidders.'

In reality (and according to what Google throws out) the remaining bidder is MAG plc who put the highest bid on the table however this falls short of what BAA / Ferrovial want for the airport.

I think it may be some time before this sale is completed.

[lbalad]

Just looking at next years brochure,the flights to Halifax and Fredericton to be operated by Canjet 737's.

Is this the first time they have done flights to the UK?

[LGW_08R]

Ive been informed by a friend of mine that Iraqi Airways are due to start services to London Gatwick on 16th July. They will fly 3 times weekly, Tu, Thu, Sun with ETAs shortly after 2000. Flight numbers IAW623/4 and apparently a 737-400. Scheduled also to go via IST.

Im not 100% sure on this, however i feel it was defiantly worth a mention.

[True Blue]

Their website seems to refer to their flights operating from Lhr. Suppose that could change.

True Blue

[Skipness One Echo]

This one's been expected as US Airways pull the LGW-PHL link to concentrate on LHR which sees an upgrade from the B767-200 to a shiny new A330-200 for the winter. Seems that the 767 freed up from axing LGW-CVG is being deployed on the only remainaing Delta flight to ATL, freeing up the NWA A330 for elsewhere.

This will leave only US LGW-CLT, DL LGW-ATL and the BA and VS beach fleets flying long haul for the winter, and let's be honest, Delta and US are LHR bound for the summer I reckon.

[AndyH52]

If I were a suspicious and cynical chap, I would think that BAA was doing little to prevent the switch in services from LGW to LHR. After all they are having to dispose of LGW so why leave it with a traffic base that could / would challenge its main earner (i.e. LHR)?

Don't get me wrong, I know that the likes of DL, US and CO have long covetted the prospect of operating out of Heathrow, but it would seem that slots are being found for them at one of the most slot constrained airport in Europe? Amazing what can be done when the corporate body puts it's mind to it :rolleyes:

[Musket90]

Skipness is right - Gatwick has always been second to Heathrow, if it wasn't for Bermuda II agreement forcing these US carriers to operate from Gatwick they would have been at Heathrow many years ago, subject to slot availability of course. Open Skies has changed all that. BAA in agreement with other stakeholders agree runway and terminal capacity but doesn't have much say as to which airlines are allocated slots. I would have thought that at Heathrow they don't need to do much marketing to attract new airlines as virtually all the runway slots are spoken for and the airlines themselves do slot trading. Other BAA airports may be different. As long as the runway and terminal capacity limits are not exceeded then that's fine. Gatwick is reverting back to what it always was, a major base for the mainstream charter operators plus a good variety of scheduled holiday long/short haul flights with the occasional big non-Heathrow scheduled airline. It also seems to attract ex Stansted operators like Norwegian and Iceland Express so clearly it is the no 1 choice for some operators who for one reason or another start a Stansted route only to transfer it later to Gatwick. I wonder if Air Asia X has Gatwick in it's sights once the start up deal at Stansted has expired.

[warkman]

Gatwick terminal shuttle closed from september 2009

I had heard a rumour so i contacted BAA and they have confirmed that

"Dear

Yes this is true buses will be running interterminal services from the begining of September."

The train is down from September until the middle of 2010 with a lovely bus shuttle taking up the slack.

Nice.
So along with
Terminal rework,
Virgin Clubhouse closed

the easy to use train is down to be replaced with a bus service.

[BOAC]

Talk of a moving walkway.

[Flightrider]

The inter-terminal train link has been near (or at) the end of its working life for quite some time. A replacement with a fixed walkway with travelators - similar to that installed out to the South Terminal satellite - has been in the Gatwick Airport capital expenditure plans for several years. If they are going ahead with the work in the current environment, you can only conclude that the maintenance costs of keeping the old transit running have now exceeded the cost of replacing it.

[Skipness One Echo]

It's a Hell of a long way on a travellator.....

[racedo]

Gatwick terminal shuttle closed from september 2009

I had heard a rumour so i contacted BAA and they have confirmed that

"Dear

Yes this is true buses will be running interterminal services from the begining of September."

The train is down from September until the middle of 2010 with a lovely bus shuttle taking up the slack.

Nice.
So along with
Terminal rework,
Virgin Clubhouse closed

the easy to use train is down to be replaced with a bus service.


Posted on this in May as heard the details then.

Can't see a moving walkway as its just too far and probably would breach lots of safety guidelines.

[johnnychips]

It could be in lots of short bits like the ones in Brussels and Manchester, perhaps?

[thebeehive]

A walkway between terminals? Thats a hell of a long way surely?

[ChelleFyre]

Hmmm, would BAA have more luck keeping this moving walkway going? It's an ongoing joke that there is always a walkway or escalators out of service!

[Glamgirl]

BAA and travelators don't mix very well. A week after Pier 6 (aka Charlwood Terminal) opened, the first travelator on the bridge broke down. And they still break down on a regular basis.

I'm just hoping that there will be plenty of buses to run between N & S terminals, as otherwise we'll have plenty of late flights due to pax and crew not being able to get to the correct terminal in time.

Gg

[RoyHudd]

This is a new rumour, and is based on insider talk....sounds entirely plausible that BA will focus on LHR. (Shrinking Ship!)

[Locked door]

This has been an internal rumour since Pontious was a pilot. It's not on the current business plan so don't pay too much attention to it.

[Juan Tugoh]

This seems to come up up every now and again. Most likely to be a load of sensationalist nonsense, as usual.

[Nevermind]

This is not a new rumour - it's been bandied about since I came to LGW around 1995.

Last time I heard that rumour was in my daughter's school playground, from a pilot from another airline, with info from "near board level".

So why introduce new routes in LGW longhaul if there was no aeroplanes to feed them?
WW stated,the last time he came down here, that LGW longhaul was the only area of the company actually making money at the moment(3 months ago).

One of the best reasons I can think of, is that there is no way WW would give Easyjet and Ryanair free reign.
In BA, cash is king at the moment. However, our ability to project ahead has not been squashed either.

[PC767]

We were always told in the 'BA' regions how valued we were and our importance to the business as a whole, which is why I operate from LHR now.

I do, however, feel that LGW as a base will be safe................ but, perhaps only for long haul

[fx-85ms]

How many aircraft will BA have based at LGW for next winter? Will they all be 737?

[Glamgirl]

We'll have 737s, A319s and 777s. How many changes on a weekly basis, so can't give you a figure...

The rumour about BA quitting Lgw has been around for so long, that we just roll our eyes and say "what? again?" every time.

Gg

[Skipness One Echo]

This is a new rumour, and is based on insider talk....sounds entirely plausible that BA will focus on LHR. (Shrinking Ship!)

Well there's no room at Heathrow so I assume you mean BA are downsizing by seven B777s and over thirty 737 / A319s? Given that LGW long haul is allegedly the only part of the airline still in the black and also that's a whole lot of redundancy payments. BA's major problem is bloated costs and outdated working agreements and most of them are at Heathrow. Gatwick is a much leaner ship.

[RoyHudd]

Usual inability to think outside the box, glamgirl. BA staff complacency in the past has been staggering. It seems to remain so.And Skipness, look at the situation from a business point of view, not a spotter's.

Downsizing is the name of the game in a struggling company. Nothing to do with types of aircraft. Or redundancy payments. Those are one-offs and a normal part of £££write-downs. Tax efficient too.

BA will need to be smaller and more efficient if it is not to go the way of Sabena, Swissair and others. It will likely be reconstructed to survive like Alitalia, hardly a pleasant example.

And all other UK BA bases have been down-sized to almost nothing, MAN, BHX and GLA being good examples.

OH well, I don't want to pick a fight here, so I'll stay quiet and watch developments. With my head out of the sand.

[Nevermind]

RoyHudd

There's a difference between thinking outside the box and dismissing the facts.

Is that picking a fight or just responding in a similar tone your previous post?

[angels]

The headline is wrong on this thread. You need a ? rather than a !

Perhaps people won't get fooled then. :ok:

[Skipness One Echo]

BA staff complacency in the past has been staggering

Rubbish. BA at Gatwick have been on more realistic terms and conditions for ages. No long haul / short haul split in the cabin crew for example. The contract BA want at LHR was trialled and introduced at LGW. For that alone LGW was worth hanging on to.

And all other UK BA bases have been down-sized to almost nothing, MAN, BHX and GLA being good examples.

Right...you do know that there are NO other UK bases outside LHR and LGW? The bases in the regions are all gone.
By all means get involved but it doesn't sound like you're well informed at all.

And Skipness, look at the situation from a business point of view, not a spotter's.
Capital investment to replace the B734s has been delayed. Hence payed for 734s can be flown for a few more years to see if LHR ever does get Runway 3. Leases have already been extended. There isn't room for the LGW long haul program at LHR anyway.

[CornishFlyer]

Just sounds like an unsubstantiated load of gossip to be honest. Care to elaborate on your trusted sources or where you got this "insider talk"? You obviously aren't a BA employee otherwise you would be more than aware of the network they operate. So you are either from a different airline, stirring, or a very ill informed spotter than needs to do more homework. Other than that it just sounds like a malicious attempt to stir up trouble at worst or just an easy way to make yourself look stupid at best.

[RoyHudd]

Hmmm. Well I'm not a BA employee, I got the info from a senior selection person at BA, I fly A330's, I am not a spotter, and I can certainly be stupid but not malicious.

Sorry to have ruffled feathers but this is a rumour network, and it is for pilots. I wonder if my detractors actually qualify?

(Incidentally I use the term "base" to describe an airport into which BA currently operate, which is not strictly correct. The point I was making is that BA have been contracting in the UK geographically over many years.) Happy now, pilots Skipness and Glamgirl?

[angels]

Roy, I'm not!

Still reckon the question mark is needed in the headline.

[RoyHudd]

Fair enough. Can't seem to edit the title though.

[T5 Mole]

You ruffled feathers are you were not listening to the responses you were given. People are not being blase; they have heard years' of rumours along the same lines and, as yet, no substiation to those rumours. It is a useful rumour to keep staff on their toes, hence nobody from up on high denying the rumour...for over 15 years.

Gatwick is a useful project / testing ground that even generates cashflow for the business. That is about as concrete a fact as you will get on a rumour network, so use your grey matter and process the information you are given!

[Sir George Cayley]

Wonder what the WaterWorld bean counters load onto LGW (or EOG, remember?) for centralised functions? Be interesting to see what the core operational profit loss account looks like

Accountants can make anything look good or bad as directed.

Funny how another LGW operator recently did the same, and made much of the "profits". Turned out to be a 'pullover the wool over the eyes' though.

Sir George Cayley

ps Just remembered that the threat to Ground Services at the start of the pay talks was that if they didn't agree, the BA Cargo LGW would have to go. Could that be behind this rumour? Apparently the response from the mainly LHR voters was "Wad evorrr!!"

[beamender99]

Re the shuttle train betwen North and South terminals

From the BAA site

Gatwick prepares for new Shuttle

17 September 2009
The inter-terminal transit system at London Gatwick Airport, installed in 1987, is about to be replaced as part of the airport’s £1bn investment programme.
The existing transit, which has now completed more than two and a half million miles, will be removed from service on 28th September this year with the two new Shuttles coming into service in May and July next year. The new Shuttle service will be fully operating at the start of August 2010.
Whilst this work is undertaken, a replacement bus service will operate from the upper forecourt of both terminals every three minutes during the day (0400hrs-1800hrs) and every six minutes at night.

Passengers and staff using this service should allow 20 minutes for their journey beteen terminals.

As the transit stations will be closed, access between South Terminal and B staff car park and South Terminal and local buses will be via alternative routes.
A number of trials will be carried out during September, using the replacement bus service. These will take place over the weekend of 19-20 September and on 23, 24 and 25 September.
During its time, the inter-terminal transit system has used around 600 tyres and 16,000 power pick-up shoes The car doors have opened and closed in the region of 3.8 million times. The 2.5 million miles it has travelled is equivalent to 100 times around the earth of 5 return trips to the moon.

[virginblue]

Easjyet to start LGW-DUS (and FCO-DUS) in February 2010:

EasyJet baut Düsseldorf aus - Netzwerkplanung - Verkehr - airliners.de (http://www.airliners.de/nachrichten/bereiche/verkehr/netzwerkplanung/easyjet-baut-duesseldorf-aus/19227)

(sorry, in German only).

So let the bloodbath begin - wonder if the route will sustain two airlines.

[Airlift21]

Signs of recovery at Gatwick

BAA have just announced September 2009 traffic figures. Despite overall figures at Gatwick down by 0.5 %, both domestic & European traffic is up by 5.8 % and 8.7 % respectively. Best since May 2008. Encouraging after most long haul buggered off to Heathrow leaving a dent in pax numbers at LGW.

[asiolgw]

Just had a call to say that my booking for a DL flight from LGW to ATL on December 5th is no longer available, and that I must rebook on a flight ex LHR. That leaves only US Airways at LGW, who will undoubtedly be moving their CLT in the near future.

[macuser]

something to do with EZY?

[asiolgw]

My earlier post regarding DL pulling out was incorrect. My cancellation was due to a cancelled connecting flight. DL assured me that their LGW operation will continue. Apologies for the misleading post

[Skipness One Echo]

DL assured me that their LGW operation will continue.

Isn't that what NWA, USAirways and Continental all said? Really I'm sure all three said that and when the going got tough, it was the LGW routes that got pulled. I am amazed DL are still at LGW.

[Charley B]

USA are still here(well partly!)DL hopefully will stay-we cant lose everything to LHR.
LGW badly needs more longhaul!

[Airlift21]

We all know the merits of LHR and its hub status! So, what are the real reasons for no long haul at LGW? Possibly, London only needs 1 hub, and it has it....... LHR! It's got 5 terminals, 2 runways, and good road and rail links. In addition to that, there is the very real possibility of a third runway despite the enviromental impacts. LGW can't even expand it's North Terminal until a decision is made by the council on Nov 10th. If pax capacity is maximised at LGW ( 45m), then it still has only 1 runway. That, I'm afraid, will not change! Let's face facts... If you were running an airline, which airport would you fly from.....?

[compton3bravo]

Heathrow good rail links! you´re having a laugh! Old tube line takes an hour into Central London, Heathrow Express absolute rip off!

[Skipness One Echo]

LGW badly needs more longhaul!

Why? Gatwick is back to what it does best. Charter and holiday flights. It does have a lot of charter long haul and still the BA and VS beach fleets. What people long for is the return of the legacy carriers from LHR. There seems little reason for that to happen and new entrants to the market only use LGW until LHR opens up a slot they're able to bid for.

No airport "needs" long haul, it's mainly the Kudos that people love, like BRS and Continental, major bragging rights. I doubt it makes much difference to the bottom line.

[dantheflyboy]

Compton have you not seen the heathrow connect service 25min service between Paddington and T1/T4 very well priced too! So the train can take the strain.

[BFS101]

Compton,

Besides the very recently constructed airports, what would you expect. Think of time taken to get to Manhattan from JFK or Newark, Dulles into Washington, I think is certainly no better. Many airports require a train journey into their principle city, maybe just with newer carriages!! On a budget, tube it to London, money not such an option, take the Heathrow Express... Or bus, or taxi, or friend / relative??

[silverelise]

Just announced - Gatwick Airport sold for £1.51bn to Global Infrastructure Partners

[Dubaian]

Who they ??? Global Infrastructure Partners (http://www.global-infra.com/)

[RoyHudd]

I wish Waitrose had bought them. Food would have got better.

[RJ100]

Gatwick is to be sold to the owners of London City Airport.

This story was also on BBC Breakfast news this morning.

LONDON, Oct 21 (Reuters) - British airports operator BAA, controlled by Spain's Ferrovial has agreed to sell Gatwick airport to Global Infrastructure Partners for 1.5 billion pounds ($2.46 billion), the Financial Times said.
The deal is expected to be announced early on Wednesday, before the market opens, the paper said, citing people close to the matter.
The Competition Commission approved the details of the sale late on Tuesday, the paper said, citing people familiar with the matter, although it added that one source said the deal could still fall through.
A spokesperson for BAA was not immediately available for comment when contacted by Reuters.
Global Infrastructure Fund, backed by Credit Suisse and General Electric, owns 75 percent of London City airport, the paper said.
On Tuesday, Ferrovial chairman Rafael del Pino said the company was in advanced talks with more than one interested party, and the deal was expected to complete within the next few weeks.

[whatdoesthisbuttondo]

Is this a good thing for Gatwick?

I always imagined there was underinvestment at LGW but when I think about it, there has been a lot of work in both North and South terminals and that great bridge in regent years.

Even the knackered old monorail is being upgraded.

[HZ123]

The bridge is indeed 'Regent'. I am not so sure that GAL staff will be as keen on future investments as rhey stand to lose a lot. Firstly LGW needs to attract a number of new players asap?

[Wod]

They'll want a State subsidy, or a guaranteed monopoly exemption from airport development within x miles, where x is a very large number that would get you to Manchester or Amsterdam.

And a parallel runway approved tomorrow.

[troff]

What? Emirates didn't buy it?

[GBALU53]

Once this is signed sealed and delivered, will we start seeing changes by some of the operators at Gatwick??

[whatdoesthisbuttondo]

Is this good news for Gatwick?

There is still the 2014? no new runway agreement, even though there doesn't seem to be much of a push to build one anyway. The North and South terminals have all had some minor cosmetic work done on them in recent years and there is that dandy new bridge at the North.

Perhaps there will there be incentives to attract some more of the Americans back from LHR?

What changes might there be with this sale?

[Rainboe]

So those delightful people who took to dragging snowploughs behind the aeroplanes of airlines in distress are (hopefully) on the unemployment line soon? I hope it's not just a case of the same people swapping uniforms and carrying on with the same jobs. New blood is needed there to remove the dead hand of BAA altogether!

Gatwick has great road and rail connections. It should cream the airline business, but it doesn't. The facilities are there, expansion space is there. What's wrong? Single bloody runway! I can't believe they upgraded a taxiway to runway status that can't be used as a second runway. Until another runway is built and capacity goes up, Gatwick will languish because without the airline connections, it will never grow and attract people. I hope the new owner stamps out opposition. It's a great airport with amazing road and train connections streaks ahead of Heathrow. How much longer can we allow people to move near growing airports and then start grousing about development? Do we want the UK to take its place in the modern industrial world or revert to a poor agrarian economy, a 'Portugal of the north', whilst our northern competitors expand their commercial interests at our expense?

[groundagent]

Looked at the profile link from Dubaian and they are the same group who bought LCY . . .

[SouBE]

:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Dubaian]

Look at their profile - they also own Biffa. So they should be well-used to handling sh:mad:t

[RVF750]

The domestic South Terminal Pier is well overdue for complete demolishment and re-planning for starters.....

[LGW_08R]

Well i thought today was going to be a bad day, naff weather, feeling ill and just loads of other nonsense! But this really has put a big grin on my face! As said above, Gatwick holds so much potential with the good transport links.

Hopefully next Summer there will be a few more airlines populating Gatwick
:ok:

[Serenity]

It already is!! There are plans for redeleloping the main pier (stands 11-24) and the smaller south pier (1-10).
More stands on the main and less on the south!

[Out Of Trim]

Good News! Perhaps they'll fix the Airbridge service doors on Stands 2, 18 and 22 for starters! It's been rather noticeable that all repairs seem to have stopped lately. :ugh:

[Thor Nogson]

Is this good news for Gatwick?

There is still the 2014? no new runway agreement, even though there doesn't seem to be much of a push to build one anyway.

I think the original agreement was till 2019.

But, the agreement was between West Sussex County Council and BAA.
Since BAA no longer own the airport, I'd guess the new owner could say it no longer applies?

I am led to believe that the Government, the new owners, and the airlines all want an expansion of Gatwick.

TN

[racedo]

Wonder did the estate agent get 1.5% commission plus VAT or did they settle for a fixed amount.

What did the advert say

For Sale 1 Airport in desireable location, close to local transport links.

[Xeque]

I've never used London City but from all reports it is a very well run and efficient airport. Can we now expect the same good management for Gatwick? If there is UAE money available I'm sure whatever needs fixing at Gatwick can (indeed) be fixed and quickly too.
As for a second runway???:}

[turnipgreen]

LCY is well run - i am a user of the airport regularly. If GIP bring some of the LCY management expertise to LGW then this could be a good deal for LGW.

[racedo]

Given unemployment nationally and political hue of WSCC then don't rule out objections disappearing in the next year followed by a big pot of Govt money going in to the council.

Oh a cynic am I.

[KENNEDY TOWER]

Dubaian

G.I.P AKA Global Infrastructure Partners is a 5.64 billion US dollar fund.

Credit Suisse and General Electric are joint funding investors with each putting in $500 million of investment. G.I.P. own London City as well plus have interests all over the world.

If London City is anything to go by they will give Gatwick a real shot in the arm.:ok:

[Sir George Cayley]

I've got a great idea for a new logo to rebrand LGW as not BAA. D'ya think I can charge them a few quid for the idea?

Sir George Cayley

[LGS6753]

The MD of LCY is ex-Luton, not an appointee of GIF, as far as I am aware. So ownership does not necessarily mean good management.
If GIF are prepared to invest (and it would be odd if they weren't), LGW can look forward to some improvements. Whether a second proper runway would appear before 2019 (the original agreement date) is a matter of debate, but if the agreement was overturned, there would be a big hue and cry from the locals, and the eco-nutcases.

[Woofrey]

Hmmm, a few points still remain :

1. It is still a regulated airport, with a regulatory regime that basically offers a return on asset value.
2. That means returns will only increase if you push through more pax, (revenue), using the same assets and controlled or lower costs.
3. If you want to attract more pax, then you need the right investment in assets but.....
4. because Gatwick has a broad range of carriers, there is always a struggle to agree the investment plan priorities. Easy and Ryanair want to pay next to nothing, ( but have the growing market ), whilst at the other end larger carriers want better facilities but don't command pax nos, and the charter boys who have been there forever, don't really know what they want. This is at odds with Stansted and Heathrow where there is basically conflict on the amount spent, as opposed to major conflicting carrier requirements.
5. Hopefully the GIP guys have done their homework, because if they are to investment big time, they will have to expect lower returns in the short term and expect their money to come back sometime in the future.

Now, as regards the management, the "old hand of BAA" actually left this lot some time ago. Have a look at the profiles and you'll be hard pressed to find someone who has an aviation background or knows an Airbus from a Jumbo. So have things changed for the better in the last 5 years ?

[Rob Courtney]

Security staff often get abuse on these forums but Ive got to say they where great when we passing through North terminal last night, not only was the whole procedure quick but everyone was polite, helpfull and took (and gave!) a bit of good natured ribbing as we passed through:ok:

[True Blue]

I see United Airways Bangladesh has started a new service tonight to/from Dhaka via Dubia. What equipment are they using? I also see Iraqi Airways keep coming up on the airport info, will they also be starting?

True Blue

[LGWWelsh]

They are using an MD83 Dhaka, Dubai, Istanbul, London. Twice a week.

[davidjohnson6]

Dhaka, Dubai, Istanbul, London. Twice a week

Sounds rather like one of those traditional "this plane will call at all stations to ..."
Hope management have found a good niche for it to be a solid profitable route

[Shingles]

This route sounds a utter nightmare - and possibly the longest MD83 service in the world? There is speculation on this matter over at A.net.

[Woofrey]

Officially sold and handed over to Global Infrastructure today then....

Gatwick link now re-moved from the BAA website.

[LGWWelsh]

Sale completes at the end of today. We all TUPE across to new owner today then all the re-branding work commences.

[Seljuk22]

From 28th March daily flights to Bordeaux by EZY.
Anyone knows how many EZY-aircrafts will be based at LGW next summer (more or less, I guess something about 40)?
Will EZY use A321 next summer?

[True Blue]

The Lgw site shows Royal Jordian flights to Amman. Not yet on the airline site. Is this a new service starting in the spring? Shows 2 per week with an A319.

True Blue

[Charlie Roy]

Brussels Airlines will be leaving Gatwick from mid-January.

[HeathrowAirport]

Gatters Closed till 0500 due snow.

[flyer55]

Brussels airlines to leave lgw wonder who will pick up the route

[adfly]

Possibly Flybe???

[Random Flyer]

I've just heard on the radio that the runway at LGW is now closed. What is it with this country's inability to cope with the slightest bit of snow?

[Charley B]

Still shut--snow did come down quite heavily earlier this afternoon here.

[HeathrowAirport]

Gatwick Airport currently closed The runway at Gatwick Airport was closed at 15.19 for essential de-icing work. We are working closely with our airline and business partners to re-open the runway as soon as it is safe to do so.
Passengers travelling from Gatwick today are advised to allow extra time for their journey to the airport and contact their airline for the latest flight information.

[mmeteesside]

Air Southwest operating into Lydd instead of Gatwick tonight - interesting choice :ok:

[Desert Dawg]

This is a humble request for anyone in FLT OPS / ATC at LGW... :O

I need a personal favour: Can anyone 'in the know' send me a PM letting me know if EK0016 departs on-time at 13:40 today (22 Dec) - or if it's delayed etc..?

My mum is supposed to be on that flight and she's not too good with mobile phones/SMS and she's in a wheelchair... so once she's checked in at the North Terminal, it's gonna be difficult for me to contact her to find out what's REALLY going on.....

(By the way: It's the first time I've got her out the house since my Dad passed away - so I really hope to get her to DXB for a nice Christmas holiday with our family here).

Any help received is highly appreciated. Thanks!!!! :)

[Tigger4Me]

DD

Check your PM's.

Tigger

[putneyuk]

I understand that the above worked very well for them yesterday, the Flybe diverted back to Newquay, but Air Southwest made a smart move me thinks!

[True Blue]

Are Flybe going to increase Lgw further? According to current timetable, the flights to Bergerac and Limoges have departures at 7.25am in the summer. The 2 based aircraft at the minute go to Jersey and Dusseldorf. Also the ACL report for W09 states that Flybe are to start Hannover Feb 10. The same report also states that China Airlines are to start Taipei 3w in March 10. African Alliance and Iraqi Airways also waiting to start. Link here http://80.168.119.219/UserFiles/File/LGW%20W09%20Start%20of%20Season.pdf

True Blue

[True Blue]

I see Pegasus Airlines now have flights on sale to Dalaman and Antalya ex Lgw for S10.

True Blue

[airhumberside]

The early Limoges/Bergerac flights are only on Thursdays and Fridays when the 1st Dusseldorf flights is moved to the afternoon. So no extra aircraft needed at Gatwick. Suspect this is just during peak summer when business demand is less

[flying_shortly]

Looking at the LGW report there it seems EI are having an impact in LGW... 4th largest airline there in terms of movements. Ahead of Ryanair!

Do you think the future looks bright for them there?

[ericlday]

Q) Egtt/qfalc/iv/nbo/a/000/999/5109n00011w005
B) From: 10/01/05 21:20c) To: 10/01/05 23:30 Est

E) Ad Closed For Snow Clearance

[globetrotter79]

Ryanair Gatwick-Pescara?

In the midst of today's chaos...Ryanair are showing a planned arrival/departure today at Gatwick as follows:

Arrival - FR9764 1225 from Pescara
Departure - FR9765 1255 to Pescara

Is this some sort of ad-hoc?

[Sky Wave]

From what I can tell the airport has yet to open today. Latest Notam estimating 17:00z

So it's unlikely that RYR landed at 12:25

[HeathrowAirport]

Shamrock have just started some movement out of HellRow, 2 flights Into Gatwick, one just landed.

[Bagso]

....closed until at least 2200 according to CFMU

LONDON/GATWICK IS CLOSED FOR ARRIVALS UNTIL 2200 UTC DUE TO LACK OF STANDS AND DE-ICING LIMITATION

[colegate]

I have just looked at the Gatwick Airport Flight Information site. What a complete shambles. Surely a web site is a good way to impart information to everyone, including potential travellers like me. Some fights are shown as having planned departures several hours ago. Why? Do not the mangement of this airport realise that updating information is vital. Gatwick is the only airport to have major disruptions today. There is no weather reason, so it must be the management of this place that is responsible.

Incidentally this airport was bought by new investors recently. BAA no longer has any involvement in the place. So why do the insolent security staff continue to wear BAA uniforms? And why do these staff continue to issue instructions such as "Belts off" "Shoes off" Not a please, sir or madam amongst them when I passed through recently.

I was hoping to go to Gatwick tomorrow(Friday) but there is still no clue as to whether there will be any flights to there.

I was there just before Xmas (Dec 21) The runway closed at 1510 but there was no announcement over the loudspeaker system for just over 2 hours. Doesnot this management shambles realise that they have customers? Those customers deserve to be treated in a civil way. After all eeveyone of them is paying a high price to use this place?

No, I don't think Gatwick's management care as long as thay can go on "managing" their shopping arcades. Sad but in a competitive world they will have to learn the hard way that they must improve on their dismal performance. Next time I am adrressed by a security operative who is calling me "sir" I will realise that someone has done something about this miserable place. I fully expect, however, that I might have to wait until well into the next decade.

[chipsbrand]

Was booked to go on EI 902 to AGP in the morning but have just been informed by them that flt canx. Gatwick's useless flt info site still shows this flight as operating on schedule. Now rebooked to go with RYR ex STN. I have learnt from experience that RYR are the very best when there are problems. Bye bye EIN and LGW.

[Zippy Monster]

Not a please, sir or madam amongst them when I passed through recently.

I think it's the luck of the draw. I've had the full range in there, from the downright insulting a while back, to the very polite but humourous when I passed through a couple of weeks back.

[thebeehive]

Gatwick's useless flt info site still shows this flight as operating on schedule.

Agree, GIP are rubbish with their flight info. ALL flights showinhg as operating on SCHEDULE tomorrow even though EZY website has 4 canx flights for tomorrow, and has done for hours now.

[Northern Hero]

It's up to the handling agents to update the airports flight info system. In the case of Aer Lingus & Easyjet, it's Menzies responsibility.

[EISNN]

Aer Lingus to reduce activity at Gatwick base - The Irish Times - Fri, Jan 08, 2010 (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/0108/1224261896206.html)

[chipsbrand]

Have just looked at the LGW flt info site. No change since yesterday. How on earth do they expect the public to know what is going on? I have also looked at the AENA site in Spain. Bang up to date as always.

[Tigger4Me]

It's up to the handling agents to update the airports flight info system. In the case of Aer Lingus & Easyjet, it's Menzies responsibility.

I always thought that the live flight information on the website was a feed from the screens at the airport. Is that not the case then?

Classic contradiction this morning with the EZY8863 ZRH showing "Scheduled" on Gatwick website but cancelled on Easy's own website. What chance do we have?

My dilemma is, do I wait until tomorrow (Saturday) to see if my EZY operates from LIS into LGW, or dump it and get hot foot it up to OPO for the FR into STN tonight instead? I'm supposed to be flying to CUN on Sunday but it's not looking good.

[compton3bravo]

Quite agree chipsbrand. Could someone kindly tell the management of the second busiest airport in the United Kingdom and one of the busiest single runway airports in the world that we have now reached FRIDAY 8th January. The flight information is still giving Thursday morning details. What a way to run an airport. Terrible start for the new owners which I am led to believe include some Canadians who are used to this weather.
Also it has not taken long for easyJet to have a go at the airport with some justification I think.
Sorry end of rant.

[thebeehive]

Gatwick Airport: Flight departures today at Gatwick Airport | Live Gatwick Airport departures (http://www.gatwickairport.com/portal/page/Gatwick%5EGeneral%5EFlight+information%5ELive+flight+departu res/)

Woeful, nothing has changed, all flights showing as scheduled.

[Tigger4Me]

It's high time that someone put the managers in front of a camera and asked for an explanation.

[BOAC4ME]

All airports flight information screens (replicated on the web-site) that I have had working knowledge of are updated by the Ground Handler whomever that may be dependant upon the Airline you are looking for.

The simple fact of the matter is, whilst we would all love the information screens to be 100% correct and up-to date 100% of the time, during operational circumstances such as we have seen over the recent week or so, there are frankly more pressing 'behind the scene issues' than constantly tapping away on info systems.

If Ground Handlers were not ready to take diverted A/C or an A/C had to divert elsewhere due to poor preparation or lack of operational staff, and the reason was that they had to take their 'eye off the ball' to update info screens, this to say the very least would not go down very well.

All areas of society are having to prioritise and get on with essentials, Airports and Airlines are no different, and actually it always amazes me just how well (with very few exceptions) this is done. Well done all :ok:

[compton3bravo]

Sorry BOAC do not agree. The first priority is to keep the public i.e. the people who are actually trying to fly, suitably informed. How can a major international airport not have up to date information (those information boards have not changed for nearly 24 hours). Having spent many years in the media area I found that the last thing the punters want is no information or lack of information, in my opinion if you keep people informed even if it is bad news for them, they appreciate it much more than being kept in the dark.
I know everybody is doing there best but as I have said before it is winter and it does snow and get foggy in Northern Europe - it has been like since time began - unfortunately people have being lulled into a false sense of security over recent years.

[Fernanjet]

If Ground Handlers were not ready to take diverted A/C or an A/C had to divert elsewhere due to poor preparation or lack of operational staff, and the reason was that they had to take their 'eye off the ball' to update info screens, this to say the very least would not go down very well.

SO....you honestly think that the ground handlers who are out turning around the aircraft, then run in and update the arrivals info!!!

Get real.....this is someone elses job to update it and they just cannot cope with anything out of the ordinary, much like the majority of the UK.

If the airlines tell you to check with the airport, or check the website before travelling, the very LEAST that should be done is to maintain the accuracy of the flight info.

This is to stop UNNECESSARY journeys on hazardous roads for people.

it should be made into a priority.

[LGW Vulture]

May I suggest that anyone looking for real time flight details at LGW to go to the flight aware website and key in the LGW four letter code at the bottom EGKK! :)

[thebeehive]

So the ground handlers are giving their information to flight aware but not the airport itself then? :}

I agree with other posters, it is the airports responsibility to keep people updated, ESPECIALLY at times like this, and the best way to do that is through its website

[Charlie Roy]

Aer Lingus to downsize Gatwick base from 5 to 3 aircraft from Summer 2010.

Remaining routes:
Dublin
Knock
Malaga
Cork (new!)


Easyjet 1 - Aerlingus 0

[FR-]

So Aer Lingus lost the flight with easyJet at LGW, think we could all that coming for sometime. So what does it do next, starts another route war with Ryanair LGW-ORK :mad:

FR-

[Charley B]

Gatwick flight info that was hopelessly out of date has suddenly gone down and is unavailable--I wonder why--maybe someone has contacted the press!

[Tigger4Me]

Guilty as charged Charley B. :}

[ericlday]

We are very sorry but live flight information is currently not available. We recognise that this is key customer information and we are doing all we can to restore the service back to normal as soon as possible.

[Tigger4Me]

We recognise that this is key customer information


So LGW, if you recognise that it is so important, how come it's taken you this long to realise the complete mess it is in and do anything about it?

[Charley B]

It was a complete shambles--how anyone could have got info from it I don't know--0/10 !
Was still showing this am EK 10 to Dxb LAST NIGHT AS SCHEDULED!!It took off almost on time as I heard it go.
Hopefully when the system goes live again-it will be updated AND GIVE correct up to date info!LHR is fine for info and has been for the last few days.
A friend was trying to get details of a LGW arrival this morning and cannot even get put thro to an agent for more info ( like you used to be able to do-)-COME ON GATWICK IMPROVE!
Having virtually no stands open was a joke as well yesterday!

[Charley B]

The info board is back working and updated totally!!
Lots more traffic here today so things have greatly improved!!

[True Blue]

Lgw arrivals info has been showing FR flights from Pescara, Tenerife and Rome. Are these new flights to be announced but put into the flight system too soon?

True Blue

[irish lad]

Aer Lingus to downsize Gatwick base from 5 to 3 aircraft from Summer 2010.

Remaining routes:
Dublin
Knock
Malaga
Cork (new!)


Easyjet 1 - Aerlingus 0


Remember what happened Aerlingus when they tried to take on Easyjet's european routes at Belfast?!

I think its fair to say

Easyjet 2 - Aerlingus 0

[Charley B]

True Blue
Think these are on site in error-the man on the LGW aviation society blog last night commented about it saying there are FR flights on there that dont belong here!!

[daz211]

Aer Lingus did'nt stand a chance LGW, everone knows LGW is a big holiday destination gateway in the UK but Aer Lingus would'nt pop into my mind when looking for a holiday flight ( and i know who fly where ) Mr and Mrs Joe blogs looking for fight only would look at Thomas Cook, Thomson, Ryanair-Easyjet, Flybe, BA I dont think many would even think of Aer Lingus unless traveling to Ireland but even then Ryanair would be looked at before Aer Lingus...

The only way for Aer Lingus to move into other markets (UK holiday flight only) would be a re-brand...

[Skipness One Echo]

So instead of being something people have heard of, you suggest they become something no one has heard of. Do you work in marketing Daz?

[daz211]

You got it !!! A new brand aimed towards your new market works a whole lot better than a brand people link with flights to Ireland :ok:.
If you asked the people on the streets of London and areas around if they know where AerLingus flys most would say WHO and the the rest would say Ireland.
Thats not forgeting the people in European Cities who wish to fly to London they probabley cant even say Aer lingus or spell it, thats nothing against them its just an un-friendly European name.
By rebranding the news spreads fast of a new player in the market even if its not new people will see a new Airline.

[Random Flyer]

EasyJet capitalises as rivals cut Gatwick routes
Budget carrier EasyJet is to boost aircraft and routes from Gatwick this summer as Aer Lingus cuts back from the airport (see previous TravelMole story).

Three aircraft are to be added at Gatwick fleet, increasing the fleet to 43.

The development comes in the wake of recently announced reductions in Gatwick operations by airlines such Aer Lingus and Danish airline Cimber.

EayJet UK regional general manager Paul Simmons said: “We are proud to have developed our business at Gatwick over the last few years.

“As a result of this additional capacity, we plan to announce some great new routes from Gatwick for this summer within the next few weeks.”

by Phil Davies



http://www.travelmole.com/stories/1140337.php

[Charlie Roy]

airBaltic announce a new route Vilnius to Gatwick (direct) on their Facebook page. Nothing yet on their website, in the press...

[Ransman]

Heard a rumour that Gatwick are trying to change the way they charge airlines to use the airport, putting all fees together, and including it in the landing fee, also heard that "Noise" of a/c will be taken into account. As a result, it will cost the same to land a Dash 8 as it will to land a 747. They want to get rid of the 50 and 70 seaters in favour of bigger aircraft per landing slot. Hope this is wrong, sounds like Heathrow all over again :uhoh:

[Bagso]

EGKK just notamed to say LGW closed for at least next 6 hours......until 1700

...thats seems incredible , is it really that bad ?

[Woofrey]

Yes, it does seem incredible !

I doubt that things are any worse than at Heathrow or Stansted and I believe they are both able to operate.

You have to wonder if there is any substance to the earlier post regarding the previous operators behaviour in the run up to the sale...... run down supplies, conserve cash, etc. However that would have been shortsighted because it's the same employees, ( bar a few directors ), trying to run the place.

Weird.

[compton3bravo]

And according to their website there are only going to allow limited departures when it does open. I imagine the weather must be bad there but I cannot remember Gatwick being closed for so long on a number of occasions recently - maybe somebody can explain please!
It would also be interesting to find out what the easyJet management think of the new owners performance so far as it seems Gatwick to them is the best thing since sliced bread!

[Charley B]

GATWICK IS OPEN AGAIN!!!
Ist departure is just taking off on 8R!

[ManofMan]

Re-open and accepting 6 aircraft per hour, delays still in excess of 180 minutes.

Must have been some snow fall.

[Betablockeruk]

Anyone know where the Cubana went?

[opsjockey]

Cubana ended up in Orly, gonna try and position back later today..... Just seen a truck load of stuff turn up at LGW, looks like rescue kit, along with dogs, people, bags... apparently there's an acft waiting to depart to Haiti as part of the earthquake relief effort... any clues who?

[fly_boi2008]

Yes, Its an Astraeus airlines B757 via YHZ.

[pennineuk]

It was heavy. Tried to get the 0700 LGW-MAN which was promptly cancceled as I entered the N terminal. Train up to MAN, but mercifully the 1625 flight did operate- a/c from previous night with normal crew turning up for 1625 duty having overnighted at MAN. On landing at LGW, it was interersting to see so much of thr ramp and taxiways covered in snow still, even though it had thawed some what.

[Red Comet]

Why are the managers at Gatwick finding it so hard to clear their runway of snow? One day last week the snow stopped completely at 10am. The runway stayed closed until 3pm.

For "London's second airport" this is not very impressive. Anyone know what the problem is?

[Mr @ Spotty M]

Have you ever thought that you need people to operate the machinery needed to clear the snow.
What happens if the people can not get to the airport, because the surrounding roads are bad or blocked.
This might be your answer, the previous shift can not work around the clock like the old days, due to EU working time regulations.

[samuelmj1]

...it is a problem that most international airports seem capable of solving. You might expect the UKs second airport to be capable of doing so if its counterparts just down the road can do the same.

[plane silly]

OK, so LHR is twice the size of LGW so it would be fair to assume they have twice the amount of snow clearing equipment and personnel to operate it.

They decide to operate a restricted service on 1 runway at LHR - this means they have double the amount of kit to clear a single runway that LGW has.

Question answered!

[Skipness One Echo]

That's just plain silly is that.

[pabely]

Would it be silly to assume BAA didn't leave all the equipment when Gatwick was sold off?

[Fernanjet]

Would it be silly to assume BAA didn't leave all the equipment when Gatwick was sold off?

Yes it would.....

if you sold your house....would it be silly to assume that you left your car on the drive for the new owners?


Yes it would.....

Same principal i assume - unless the new owners "purchased" said equipment of course....

[Woofrey]

Would it be silly to assume BAA didn't leave all the equipment when Gatwick was sold off?
Today 14:04

I'm not sure what Fernanjet's going on about, when you sell your house, your car has nothing to do with it........

....But in the case of company takeovers, GIP will have bought all of the companies assets from BAA, which will comprise the runways, terminals and associated equipment on the asset register, which would have included the snow clearing equipment and de-icing fluid ( stock ), so they should have had all the gear necessary to deal with it.

There would be an exception to this if the Motor Transport and Snow Clearing operation were contracted out, and therefore not part of the assets purchased. This would open up a new scenario, including performance expectations and liabilities between the airport operator and the contractor.

However I would have thought that contracting out snow clearance would be high risk and not a decision to be taken lightly.

I think the "staff couldn't get in" response is a bit weak - other staff and passengers managed to get there didn't they ?

Is it possible that the company had a bit too much faith in the long range weather forecasts issued toward the end of last year and the de-icing stocks were too low to cope with the situation ?

Interesting to see Eurotunnels boss coming clean about their performance with trains stuck in tunnels, it would be nice if Gatwick management were to respond in some way regarding their problems. Wouldn't the regulator be interested in knowing why the country's second busiest airport ground to a halt ?

[Woofrey]

Intending to price out the smaller carriers?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heard a rumour that Gatwick are trying to change the way they charge airlines to use the airport, putting all fees together, and including it in the landing fee, also heard that "Noise" of a/c will be taken into account. As a result, it will cost the same to land a Dash 8 as it will to land a 747. They want to get rid of the 50 and 70 seaters in favour of bigger aircraft per landing slot. Hope this is wrong, sounds like Heathrow all over again

Needs clarification then.

Noise is already taken into account when calculating the charges, ( e,g, Chapter 2, Chapter3 and Chapter 3 minus ).

Also it already does cost the same to land all aircraft at certain times of the day, usually the peak periods.

I think you may alluding to "cost the same to turn around" rather than land.

In order for this to happen the landing, parking and passenger charges would all have to be rolled into one fee, something I doubt the airlines would be enthusiastic about.

The current structure is meant to have some kind of economic relevance, ( especially with regard to parking charges where length of stay and stand used are critical components ) and it also allows the operator to make some gestures toward behavioural requirements, e.g. pricing the landing fee very high in the peak period to discourage small aircraft. This didn't stop a "very big airline" operating a very small aircraft at a peak time in the morning to protect it's slot "rights" some years ago ( although these rules may have changed now ).

The new operators should also realise the feeder impact some of these smaller aircraft have.

Suspect this idea is from someone relatively new to the operation and certainly not with any experience of aviation. Probably an accountant or economist with an MBA and degree though :)

[metalthrower]

Plane Silly - not sure where you get your info from but I'd ask for your money back. LHR has to clear both RWs to cope with the schedule and never plans to operate from a single strip. Single RW ops would soon bring it to a grinding halt.

[flyer55]

With the summer season fast approaching will we see any new longhaul routes out of lgw this summer ?

[LGW_08R]

Flyer 55

Strong Rumors are suggesting the return of a weekly Air Seychelles flight to Mahe via Rome, complementing the Heathrow operation. Starting on the 20th April. It is already possible to see this on the Gatwick Airport website timetables.

However, there was also a Royal Jordanian service being rumored about after it was shown on the timetables. Was due to start on 31st March using A319 twice weekly, again complementing the Heathrow operation. It has since disappeared from there, and it has been hush hush since.

Hopefully GIP are working hard to promote the airport more and more to bring in potential new airlines and also others to have split ops between LHR/LGW

[LGWAlan]

Air Seychelles listed on Amadeus
HM31 Tuesdays dep LGW 1820 arr 0905 SEZ 20/4-26/10

[bunatern]

norwegian moving final STN route to LGW
trondheim now bookable three times weekly from 01/04/2010

[Seljuk22]

Air Baltic: Vilnius-Gatwick 2 weekly (Thursday, Saturday) from 2nd March and 4 weekly (new: Monday, Wednesday) from 27th March

[jerry2623]

Is 1.5 hrs enough to transit from terminal S to terminal N. I am coming from BOD with BA and going onto ORK with EI . I wont have any baggage and will have online boarding pass etc . Thanks

[Fernanjet]

only as long as you are on time....

quick to transfer between terminals but disembarking, security to embark again...

should be fine but doesn't allow for delays

[Tigger4Me]

I'll second that Fernanjet. The bus transfers are working well and there always seems to be one at the stop. They say that there is a bus every 3 minutes and the journey time is another 5 or so. You really need to be hoping that your inbound is not delayed at all.

Best of luck. :ok:

[Charley B]

Does anyone know if the 2 freighters( that were Manston fog diverts into here last night) are departing(or have departed-hopefully not!!-would like to see them go!)
One was MK A/L 747 the other Md11f-Centurion Cargo-that arrived 22.30
Thanks!

[BAAdboy]

The Centurion Air Cargo has already departed (it left just after 0430) but the MK 747 is still on the ground at the moment. Looking like they plan to leave shortly though, maybe as soon as 1000

[Charley B]

Many Thanks for that--much appreciated!

[747Comet]

Does any one know why China Airlines B744F operated EGCC-EGKK today CAL6636 arrived LGW at 1758 reg is B18716.

Is the aircraft due to dep tomorrow?

Thanks
Comet

[Betablockeruk]

Just read a report that it went south from EGCC with wheels still down. Tech stop?

[747Comet]

maybe...went up to max FL190 when enroute.

Went out to see it not much activity round it, she is parked on 177 i think

[MAN777]

BBC News - Gatwick's new owners rule out second runway (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/sussex/8503942.stm)

[Fosters]

The aircraft is tech and was moved to the Virgin hangar this morning.

Fosters

[Charley B]

anyone know why BA to Barbados,Antigua/St Lucia are all canx today?
Cant be weather as VS have all gone-some were a bit late!

[intortola]

Probably as a result of airborne ash clouds from the Soufriere Hills Volcano in Montserrat. LIAT suspended all operations in Antigua yesterday afternoon.

[Charley B]

Thanks-that explains it then!

[Seljuk22]

Norwegian launchs 6 weekly (no Saturday) flights ARN-LGW from 29th April.

[wowzz]

I know this makes a change from the usual anti-security rants, but I would like to go on record to say how good the Gatwick security process has been when I used Gatwick [twice] in February.
Short waiting times [including the extra search when we left for the USA] and a pleasant attitude by the staff themselves. For once I got to deapartures feeling in a good mood!

[True Blue]

The paragraph below I have taken from The Cabin Crew thread and is from the offer made by Ba to the cabin crew. Is there an agreement between unions and Ba which limits/prevents long haul expansion at Lgw?

"It is accepted that restrictions within the Gatwick Fleet memorandum of agreement limit the long haul route network. It is agreed that discussions will be held with a view to removing these restrictions to provide the best opportunities for growth in the long haul network at Gatwick, for the benefit of the business and our people."

True Blue

[Random Flyer]

The paragraph below I have taken from The Cabin Crew thread and is from the offer made by Ba to the cabin crew. Is there an agreement between unions and Ba which limits/prevents long haul expansion at Lgw?

"It is accepted that restrictions within the Gatwick Fleet memorandum of agreement limit the long haul route network. It is agreed that discussions will be held with a view to removing these restrictions to provide the best opportunities for growth in the long haul network at Gatwick, for the benefit of the business and our people."

True Blue


I have no idea if such agreement exists or not, but if it does them I really hope it is removed. Gatwick is now pretty limited for long haul options, especially west bound.

[adfly]

Somebody needs to serve New York from Gatwick-its Britain's second largest airport and no-one flys there!! Who would fly that route though? CO, DL, BA, VS?