GATWICK

[PPRuNeUser0176]

I suspect the website has generated that data from a couple of slot applications by Aeroflot. But my interpretation is that the flights are Olympics related ad-hoc flights, and only operate on 25th and 26th July (presumably inbound pax) and 13th & 14th August (outbound following the end of the Olympics).


Operating a total of 8 flights during July/August.

[canberra97]

Does anyone know when Pier 1 is going to be demolished, any set date for this?

[chrisy08]

So it's going to be the 767-300, from Gatwick to Atlanta........ do the economy have AVOD?

[on time all the time]

work on pier 1 should start next winter.

[Seljuk22]

AirAsia X will cancel its flights from 31st March

[crewmeal]

Maybe they are paving the way for Scoot

Scoot airlines | Singapore Airlines' budget carrier Sydney flights (http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/sydney-first-destination-for-singapore-airlines-new-budget-carrier-20111201-1o82t.html)

[Aero Mad]

Other than them already having their positions established at Stansted, can anyone explain why both Air Berlin and AirAsia X have all but failed after moving over to Gatwick? I know the latter was affected by APD, cost of A340s and general European consolidation &c., but can it really be that bad? What's gone wrong?

I just find it slightly bizarre that relocating to an apparently better connected airport would affect performance so much.

[Serenity]

Air Asia have cancelled all long haul flights to Europe and India.
Nothing to do with Gatwick, it would still have been cancelled if it had stayed at Stansted!!

[Sark]

Security inconsistency is very frustrating especially through one airport, albeit separate terminals.
Flying out from North Terminal last week. I asked the question, "Belt off?" to which the reply was "Please yourself." I did not find it necessary to remove it and nothing further happened.

Flying out from the South terminal two days later I asked the same question only to be met with the response of, "Of course!" When I commented on the inconsitency I was 'selected' for a liquids check which took quite a time. Obviously they had targeted me because of my comment as to why there was no consistency. Pathetic action!

The travelling public deserve more respect than this.

[Skipness One Echo]

Belts should always be off to be honest, indeed Glasgow had (has?) their own "special" rule where they barked at everyone to take their watches off. Right....

[CabinCrewe]

Must be "had", as I have never been asked to remove my watch when going through GLA. Maybe you were wearing "bling"

[Skipness One Echo]

Dear me, I wish, alas no. It was last year and they were telling everyone to take their watches off, I did query it and I was told it was a new rule. I suspect one of the team leads was just being super enthusiastic.

[The96er]

U.K Airports have the right to deem anything they see fit to be a security risk above that what the DfT stipulate. MAN have recently decided that tennis rackets are now considered a risk and therefore must be checked in !!!

[Aero Mad]

tennis rackets are now considered a risk and therefore must be checked in

But haven't you seen the new exploding variety??? Party started without you, it seems... highly lethal, I hear.

[vctenderness]

Quote:
tennis rackets are now considered a risk and therefore must be checked in
But haven't you seen the new exploding variety??? Party started without you, it seems... highly lethal, I hear.
Have you never seen John McEnroe in action?

He made the racket into a lethal weapon every time the umpires decision went against him!

[bunatern]

turkish airlines increasing flights to 10 weekly from 24th april and from 27th may to 14 weekly.

[bcn_boy]

Once again, another article in the Evening Standard about the UK losing £47bn in trade due to lack of runway space at LHR and few connections to the far east. This is LGW's calling whereby it can truly differentiate itself from LHR. With the likes of Vietnam Airlines as a successful example it can surely attract many more carriers therefore answering businesses complaints without the need for a 3rd runway.

[Skipness One Echo]

LHR is the hub, adding capacity to LGW is not helpful as yields are lower. The two issues should not be mixed up, you are concatenating runway and terminal capacity together with connectivity. People need to understand that there is a crucial difference. I say that as someone who enjoys using LGW many times a year.

[c52]

Never understood this business of "lack of direct flights causes UK to lose business". If I were a businessman I would not say to myself, oh, I'll pass on that opportunity because I can't fly there non-stop from LHR.

On the other hand, if there are 30 people a day willing to pay business-class fares to Mongolia, then surely some airline would make a profit with a 40 seat 737 or something, and people would happily fly from STN.

[cornishsimon]

Personally i think that there is a lot of possibility for Longhaul ex LGW, Virgin & BA already have a token Longhaul network, but the problem as Skipness (http://www.pprune.org/members/57530-skipness-one-echo) says is the feed.

Take BA for example, I very much doubt they would expand Gatters currently due to the probable take over of BMI and the slots at LHR that would give them.

However, if they were to send an extra 5 7772s to Gatwick to operate more longhaul routes they would need feed, the Gatwick shorthaul route network is lacking in UK Domestic routes (some are covered by BE) as well as very much lacking in Europe, BA doesnt even operate a Paris route from from LGW, let alone German and Spanish !

cs

[Skipness One Echo]

However, if they were to send an extra 5 7772s to Gatwick to operate more longhaul routes they would need feed

BA don't really feed the long haul they have at the minute as it's aimed at UK resident, high end leisure. So aside from feeding from GLA / EDI / MAN (less so now the early departure was dropped !), BA LGW long haul stands on it's own two feet. This is not the same as a hub, BA used to hub at LGW which meant duplicating a shed load of London flights at both airports, depressing profits on both LHR and LGW. Also every route that moved to LGW lost yield when the traffic stayed at LHR and used the competition. Hence the hub was closed and now BA and VS at LGW have stand alone bases, that do have some feed but do not behave as classic hubs.

[BAladdy]

Italian carrier Meridiana Fly will on the 09th June launch a seasonal 2 x weekly service to OLB from LGW. Flights will operate through until 29th September.

IG185 OLB 08:55 - 10:15 LGW M80 2
IG185 OLB 16:40 - 18:00 LGW 737 6

IG186 LGW 11:05 - 14:25 OLB M80 2
IG186 LGW 18:50 - 22:10 OLB 737 6

M80 = Operated by Meridiana Fly on a MD80
737 = Operated by a Air Italy on a 737

The carrier will also continue there 2 x Daily A319 service to FLR for the whole of the S12 season

[Serenity]

Just been browsing the brochure for Hong Kong Airlines new all club service, wow!!

All club service, lounges, baggage allowance is 3 pieces and free sports gear, cabins and food look great and ife and Internet.
A wonderful step up from the lo co's and usual services.

Can't wait to travel with them!!!

[adfly]

A random search in June reveals they are similar in price to BA WTP and although their is nothing wrong with WTP HK airlines seem to have are far superior product in the 'lower' club class! I just hope they can gain a large enough share of the Premium LON-HKG market for the route to succeed.

[Skipness One Echo]

It's being rumoured "elsewhere" that Delta's last remaining flight, the DL12/11 Atlanta, is off to LHR in April, leaving US Airways as the last remaining American legacy at Gatwick.

[Aero Mad]

On the subject of losing routes, it seems that Air Malta will go soon too... all thanks to interference from the EC which for some reason seems to think it knows/has the right to run the airlines of member states. Bizarre.

Labour: (http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/en/businessdetails/business/businessnews/Labour-Surrendering-Air-Malta-slots-is-worrying-for-tourism-20120221)
Brussels confirms doubts on Air Malta (http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/en/businessdetails/business/businessnews/Brussels-confirms-doubts-on-Air-Malta-s-optimistic-forecasts-20120221)

[cornishsimon]

It's being rumoured "elsewhere" that Delta's last remaining flight, the DL12/11 Atlanta, is off to LHR in April, leaving US Airways as the last remaining American legacy at Gatwick.



Makes you wonder if BA might add some USA flights ex Gatwick any time soon, i notice that BA @ LGW is going to be all NF very shortly, well the few aircraft based at gatters that have First fitted anyway !

cs

[SWBKCB]

On the subject of losing routes, it seems that Air Malta will go soon too... all thanks to interference from the EC which for some reason seems to think it knows/has the right to run the airlines of member states. Bizarre.

No - it's about ensuring fair competition and making sure that when Govts. put money into loss making airlines they have a sound reason for doing so, and are not doing it to disadvantage competitors.

[Aero Mad]

If they were interested in fair competition then they wouldn't pull Air Malta out of Gatwick to leave easyJet as the only carrier regularly servicing the route (yes, I know about Thomas Cook and Thomson but they are very much less regular). Same goes for many of the other airports they are pulling them out of :rolleyes:

[LGS6753]

Aero -

If you read the article you posted the link to, it states that KM will not relinquish any LHR or LGW slots.

[Aero Mad]

They don't want to, but they are at the mercy of the providers of 130m euros of funding - we'll see what happens.

[EI-A330-300]

Delta pull out of LGW from 18 of April. Not being moved to LHR as there are dropping a service from there also.

[Skipness One Echo]

Actually they are moving the ATL-LGW to LHR and dropping an existing LHR route to accomodate the increase to Atlanta.

[crewmeal]

Looks like Fireman Sam has caused a few problems at LGW.

Fireman Sam creator Dave Jones detained and branded racist for burqa joke at airport security | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2106631/Fireman-Sam-creator-Dave-Jones-detained-branded-racist-burqa-joke-airport-security.html)]

[canberra97]

Another new long haul airline to start flights from Gatwick.

Caribbean Airlines will commence a Gatwick to Port of Spain route from the 15th June 2012 with two Boeing 767-300 aircraft that have been purchased from LanChile.

Schedules to be revealed shortly.

A Gatwick to Kingston route is planned for 2013, both 767s have winglets.

It is anticipated that BW will operate from the North Terminal.

[jabird]

Department for Transport rules do not prevent people covering their faces at airports for religious reasons, although all passengers must show their faces to UK Border officials at passport control.

Sounds like an ill-judged remark whipped out of proportion by the usual rigid jobsworth brigade! But I think we do need some clarity. Security is there to check luggage and that the passengers have nothing dangerous on them, so I don't see what difference a head scarf would make to this. Border checks are a completely different issue, only relevant on the inbound journey.

The real issue is why there aren't any checks on the nationality of anyone leaving the country, so we just don't know who is going and who is staying.

[jabird]

Caribbean Airlines has started the planning process to serve London, Gatwick with non-stop flights from Trinidad, Piarco International Airport, along with one-stop services via other Caribbean islands.

Article (http://www.caribbean-airlines.com/index.php/media/news-releases/recent-posts/2012/02/06/178-caribbean-airlines-sets-plans-in-motion-for-new-service-to-gatwick-london-)

C97,

Do you think this will just be revival of the previous routes, which iirc were LHR-ANU-POS & LHR-BGI-POS.

Would there be any continuation from KIN?

Competition always good on these routes as the only 'home grown' UK Caribbean route for now is CU's LGW-HAV.

[canberra97]

The new BW flights are to start on June 15th with a POS-LGW route followed later in July by a POS-BGI-LGW route.

It is anticipated that connections from POS will be available to GEO,KIN, amongst others.

[Skipness One Echo]

Competition always good on these routes as the only 'home grown' UK Caribbean route for now is CU's LGW-HAV

Virgin are on LGW-HAV? BA are dropping LGW-MBJ and VS dropping LGW-KIN at the end of March so there's some Carribbean draw down.

[compton3bravo]

Problems at Gatwick North Terminal regarding baggage due to electricity failure. Some flights left without baggage. More details on BCC News website.

[canberra97]

I was at Gatwick North Terminal on Saturday morning and it was quite obvious even at 7 am there was a problem as there was baggage everywhere, I went for a coffee and something to eat and by 8 am it was getting very serious, even though the flight display screens were showing flights running as normal it was obvious there would be severe delays.

My brothers Thomson flight to Barbados which was supposed to depart at 09.15 finally left the gate after a 3 hour delay.

It was my first time at Gatwick North Terminal since July 2009 and the changes and improvents are highly visible, the whole terminal feels more airy and the entrance far nicer, I had a look at the arrivals area and this does'nt look as if anything has changed, the lower pick up area directly outside arrivals still looks a complete mess though.

I was also at Gatwick South Terminal last week and you can clearly see the improvments made, I very much liked the new lifts and drop off areas but the actual terminal especially the upper level where the new security area is situtated is not that good especially the area where the new eaterys are.

But all in all a great improvement all round, I actually took a few pictures so well done to GIP and the Management at Gatwick.

[adfly]

Will drop their 2/3 daily Billund flights this summer, anyone have any idea if anyone plans to step in? I could see DY possibly considering it but with a much lower frequency and a shot in the dark but possibly even Sun Air!?

[JSCL]

Sun Air is a good candidate given BA's network at Gatwick also.

[Aero Mad]

I'm not sure; they already do twice daily London City services and I suspect that airport is slightly cheaper to operate to if you're using 328(JET)s?

[Buster the Bear]

Caribbean is one of the destinations worst affected by APD, thus Monarch deciding do ditch the 787.

[BAladdy]

Icelandair will add 2 x weekly flights to LGW from KEF starting 18th October 2012. Flights will operate:

Until 27th October 2012

FI470 KEF 07:45 LGW 11:45 757 4
FI476 KEF 16:10 LGW 20:10 757 7

FI471 LGW 13:10 KEF 15:10 757 4
FI477 LGW 21:10 KEF 23:10 757 7

From 28th October

FI470 KEF 08:15 LGW 11:15 757 4
FI476 KEF 16:45 LGW 19:45 757 7

FI471 LGW 12:30 KEF 15:30 757 4
FI477 LGW 20:55 KEF 23:55 757 7

[cornishsimon]

Shame really that BA havnt added KEF ex LGW, its the sort of flight that could work well for them and it would be nice to see BA back at KEF


cs

[LGS6753]

That's an awful lot of new capacity to an island with 300k population, added to the new flights from LTN & STN.

[edi_local]

That's an awful lot of new capacity to an island with 300k population, added to the new flights from LTN & STN.


A lot of the FI traffic may be aimed at those connecting on to North America through KEF. Having said that, i visited Iceland last year and it seems to be becoming a very popular spot as it has gotten cheaper in recent years, allowing itself to be a more affordable destination (still very expensive). The recent volcanic eruptions have done nothing but promote Iceland to the world and it seems people are now wanting to go and visit the country responsible for closing down European airpsace...by flying there. :ok:

[Dysneyland]

Hi, any idea why is no one operating from Gatwick to Paris? :confused: Thanks

[davidjohnson6]

Dysney - Eurostar runs 17 trains between London and Paris every weekday. Each train has 750 seats (5 times that of a standard single aisle aircraft) and has an 80% share of the combined rail-air market.

Any flight between Heathrow and Paris on either BA or Air France will be very dependent on people connecting to mid and long haul flights. City airport works because of the very high premium on time given the earnings of those working in Canary Wharf.

Not saying that Gatwick-Paris can't work but when a competitor has such a high capacity and daily frequency, the only customers would be those travelling to/from Sussex making commercial viability that bit harder to achieve. Either Air France opens a route to source more connecting passengers to elsewhere or it's Easyjet / Flybe doing something similiar to what exists in Luton or Southampton

[JSCL]

Dysney, if I recall correctly, due to that lack of flights there is a start-up called Brighton City Airways or something trying to start flights out of Brighton airport to Paris.

[True Blue]

Carribean Airlines to Lgw now on sale.

TB

[cornishsimon]

Hi, any idea why is no one operating from Gatwick to Paris? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/confused.gif
Thanks



No idea, but without wishing to sound like a broken record, its surely a route for BA ?

They operate LHR to CDG & ORY why not operate LGW-ORY to allow onward connections onto the Carribean routes ?

Its not like it doesnt happen else where, AMS operates into all 3 BA london airports after all!

cs

[Skipness One Echo]

ORY and CDG feed LHR long haul all day, LGW long haul is generally gone by 1pm. Hence half the day would be point to point only which does not work anymore. Besides LGW long haul is a fraction the size of LHR. BA operated LGW-CDG for years, I am assuming it's no longer worth the candle.

[Phileas Fogg]

But surely AF could generate some connecting revenue for their long haul routes in/out of, particularly, CDG if they operated a LGW route?

AMS is a different scenario ... there isn't a tunnel under the North Sea ... yet!

[Skipness One Echo]

Air France can barely make London Heathrow work without splitting London over another airport. Paris and Brussels are not the goldmines they once were.

[Phileas Fogg]

Brussels was once a goldmine???

[vctenderness]

Well with all of those MEP's with free Club Class travel it must of been!

[adfly]

It may just be somebody's wishful thinking but Wikipedia (I know!) has Lufthansa down as starting MUC from 14th July this year. Any truth behind this?

[Charley B]

Lufthansa's web site shows late July the only way to get to MUN is via FRA ....poss it is wishful thinking!!!

[bunatern]

air nigeria flights now bookable from 16th may thrice weekly using a A330-200 i believe being leased from egyptair.

[canberra97]

Where did you see this being confirmed as it does not show up on their website and booking engine, although after doing a search I did read that two A330s are to be leased from Egyptair but nothing about a confirmed London start date!

Although Air Nigeria have previously announced a Lagos to LGW route from what I have read after my search it just says London although fingers crossed it will be LGW.

If Air Nigeria do commence flights to LGW another new long haul carrier would be most welcome at LGW to at least make up for the recent loss of Air Asia X, Air Zimbabwe and Delta and Africa is very underserved from LGW.

All we need now is for the return of Air Namibia to LGW, AeroMexico, Garuda Indonesian and maybe Philippine Airlines announcing flights and maybe and a big maybe Aerolineas Agentinas.

[Heathrow Harry]

Almost 600 British Airways (BA) employees at Gatwick Airport could lose their jobs or be transferred to another company as part of plans by the airline to cut costs.
BA is proposing to shed 170 customer service and management support jobs and outsource 400 ramp worker roles.
The airline said it had begun consultation with unions over the plans.
The GMB union said the announcement was a "disaster for staff morale".
Gavin Davies, of the GMB union, said: "We will want to see proper consultations with our members on the way forward.
"GMB members want BA to take this announcement off the table to allow this to happen."
The Unite union said the plans were "extremely worrying" and called for the airline to guarantee no compulsory redundancies.
'Meet the challenge' In a statement BA said its proposals were part of a wide-ranging plan to build a stronger and more cost-competitive business and safeguard jobs for the future.
The jobs it plans to outsource include baggage, de-icing and coaching operations, and the arrivals baggage service.
The airline said it hoped to offer anyone who works on the ramp a role with a new external supplier.
BA's statement continued: "We have to meet the challenge of transforming our cost base to compete more effectively in the short-haul market, while continuing to deliver outstanding service and value for our customers."
BA is the only airline operating out of Gatwick with its own ground staff

[True Blue]

OLT Express to launch Lgw - Warsaw daily from start of winter timetable, although their booking engine shows Gdansk, must be a mistake.

TB

[j636]

They will fly both routes from October.

[BAladdy]

Flights begin 29th October. Flights are cheap too. starting at 29.99 one way inclusive of 16kg baggage allowance and 8kg cabin baggage allowance. 50% discount applies for pax aged 2 to 18.

Gdansk

O2603 GDN 18:15 LGW 19:30 320 D

O2604 LGW 20:15 GDN 23:30 320 D

Warsaw

O2703 WAW 10:45 LGW 12:15 320 D

O2704 LGW 13:00 WAW 16:30 320 D

[j636]

OLT have added Bydgoszcz - LGW from October also. 2 weekly.

[Aero Mad]

So where have all these nice slots come from?

[Sir George Cayley]

What was that twinjet with long wings at Gatwick today?

SGC

[Sam Chipperfield]

Was 787 Dreamliner, Touring Some Of UK Airports

[Severn]

OLT Express launched operations on 02 April 12, initially with 10 domestic routes within Poland. The airline is expanding its operation starting May 2012, and has announced the expansion to continental Europe starting 29 October 12 from 5 Polish bases (on-top of 23 domestic routes it will be serving by then);
Warsaw - 17 new European routes with 75 weekly flights all starting from 29 October 12
Gdansk - 13 new European routes with 57 weekly flights all starting from 29 October 12
Bydgoszcz - 12 new European routes with 25 weekly flights all starting from 29 October 12
Rzeszow - 7 new European routes with 18 weekly flights all starting from 29 October 12
Lodz - 5 new European routes with 8 weekly flights starting all starting from 29 October 12

The new routes to the UK & IRE will be:
BRS-BZG - 2x Weekly
LPL-BZG - 2x Weekly
NCL-BZG - 2x Weekly
LGW-BZG - 2x Weekly
LGW-GDN - 1x Daily
LGW-WAW - 1x Daily
ORK-BZG - 2x Weekly
EDI-LCJ - 1x Weekly
EDI-BZG - 2x Weekly

They seem to be pretty sorted, especially as it doesn't look like that they will be going head to head on many WZZ or RYR routes at all, and with cheap flights starting at 29.99 one way inclusive of 16kg baggage allowance and 8kg cabin baggage allowance. (also 50% discount applies for pax aged 2 to 18), then hopefully they will do very well.

[Charley B]

Does anyone know if 787 Dreamliner is going out on a trip like it did yesterday afternoon???
Thanks!!

[ATIS]

Anyone know how the Hong Kong Airlines service is performing?

[davidjohnson6]

You may wish to consider looking at a a railcard - either a Network card, or one of the others - be it 16-25, Family+Friends, etc...

In particular, you should note that the Gatwick Express is operated formally by Southern, and that you may be able to claim that tickets that are not purely Victoria-Gatwick should permit you to travel if they say "Southern only".

Bit of a grey area really - some ticket inspectors will allow this, while others won't. If you're gonna try this, get an email from some official rail body confirming it's valid beforehand.

If you want to get to London quickly without paying a fortune, consider instead the trains to London Bridge, which are actually almost as fast as the Gatwick Express, rather cheaper, and definitely do allow the standard railcard discounts.

[c52]

You know about the Gatwick Staff Railcard? 34% on almost all Southern & FCC tickets, but not Gatwick Express.

Gatwick Staff Discount Card - Southern railway (http://www.southernrailwaytickets.com/main.php?page_id=356)

[racedo]

Hostie

Southern trains from Gatwick to Victoria take 5 minutes more and are a lot less in cost.

[bjones4]

Depending on the time of day, some of the 'slow' Southern services are actually faster than the Gatwick Express.

[LGWAlan]

And more to the point - the Express can now be full of commuters from Brighton - as some start south of Gatwick - on knackered old South West trains rolling stock. Save your money and just catch a normal Southern or FCC train. Post 0930 best value is a 1 day Travelcard - which on FCC only can be as little as about £11 for the day. :)

[LGS6753]

Gatwick has announced that Air China will operate 4x per week to Peking. Not sure of start date.

[Skipness One Echo]

It started today.

[canberra97]

The new Air China service to Beijing was announced last October so not actually news although it has only recently commenced on 02nd May 2012 .

Not actually Peking the Capital city of the Peoples Republic of China has been known as Beijing since the mid 60s although the main international airport still holds the code of PEK.

Korean Air also started this week to Seoul, Air Nigeria to Lagos starts on the 17th May and on June 15th Caribbean Airlines start a service to Port of Spain and Barbados so a few new long haul airlines although it seems by the airport schedules Cubana have stopped flying from LGW!

All we want now is for Garuda Indonesian to recommence service to LGW from Jakarta/Bali and Philippine Airlines to Manila.

[Charley B]

It was great to see Air China A330 in the Star Alliance livery go down the approach closely followed by Air Hong Kong early yesterday morning!
Apparently a few large sized visitors POSSIBLY on 18th/19th /20th May ref Chelsea cup match at Munich:)

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "Not actually Peking the Capital city of the Peoples Republic of China has been known as Beijing since the mid 60s although the main international airport still holds the code of PEK."

Isn't it just a translation "Beijing" in Mandarin, "Peking" in English, "Pekin" in French, etc.?

[canberra97]

Yes your correct about the spelling for Peking that is actually Mandarin but Beijing is more frequently used, I wasn't going to go into the full details but your correct in what you said.

[LGS6753]

Just to wrap this up, as the poster of this bit of non-news, I picked up the info from a press release, and hadn't heard the original announcement. The press release was dated on the date the service commenced. Sorry!

As to the destination: I am English and deliberately refer to the anglicised versions of cities around the world. So I wouldn't report services to Bruxelles, or Roma, or Lisboa. To me they are Brussels, Rome and Lisbon, and always will be.

:ok:

[BAladdy]

BA have leased Titan's 757 (G-ZAPX) and a crew to operate a number of flights of the coming days from LGW. The aircraft will operate in a all economy configurations (202Y). Is this to cover for a tech 737 or A319?.

The aircraft is operating:

5th May to 8th May

BA2606/BA2607/BA2716/BA2717 - LGW-NAP-LGW-AGP-LGW

9th May

BA2712/BA2713/BA2716/BA2717 - LGW-AGP-LGW-AGP-LGW

Yesterday (4th) BA used G-POWC to operate LGW-NCE-LGW

[cornishsimon]

This is to cover for a 737 which was damaged by ground equipment @ GOA

Rumour has it that the 734 might be beyond repair


cs

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "As to the destination: I am English and deliberately refer to the anglicised versions of cities around the world. So I wouldn't report services to Bruxelles, or Roma, or Lisboa. To me they are Brussels, Rome and Lisbon, and always will be."

Don't forget Bombay.....

Agree with you 100%, LGS6753. Why have English language names if we're not going to use them! It does appear to be very inconsistent, which implies some kind of political correctness. Is this correct?

[LGS6753]

FDFrank,

Yes, I'm sure there are sensitive flowers who are offended by my stance, but I am in no way politically "correct".

And how could I forget Bombay (or Calcutta, or Madras)????

I think we should curtail this thread drift now though, or we will be exiled to Jet Blast!!!

[Blink182]

This is to cover for a 737 which was damaged by ground equipment @ GOA

Rumour has it that the 734 might be beyond repair


It can be repaired......... almost anything can be repaired ...(Qantas 747 for example ) but whether it is worth it is another matter for a 19 year old airframe with 43,000 hours.

[racedo]

Yes, I'm sure there are sensitive flowers who are offended by my stance, but I am in no way politically "correct".

So do you feel that the Windsors should only be referred to by their original Germanic name ?. After all that would be consistent would it not ?

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "So do you feel that the Windsors should only be referred to by their original Germanic name ?. After all that would be consistent would it not ?"

racedo, would imagine that LGS6753's point is the difference between a change of name and a simple translation.

The House of Windsor, formerly Saxe-Coburg, is clearly change of name, just like Salisbury/Harare or Leningrad/St Petersburg.

On the other hand, Bombay/Mumbai or Peking/Beijing is merely a translation.

Please correct me if this is wrong, LGS6753.

[jdcg]

All news outlets use Beijing and (I think) Mumbai these days, whilst at the same time saying Lisbon, Brussels etc. Of course it's inconsistent but what's so difficult about saying Beijing or Mumbai? You don't need to put on a foreign accent to say them properly...

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "All news outlets use Beijing and (I think) Mumbai these days, whilst at the same time saying Lisbon, Brussels etc. Of course it's inconsistent but what's so difficult about saying Beijing or Mumbai? You don't need to put on a foreign accent to say them properly..."

That isn't the point.

However you have illustrated nicely the point of inconsistency in the media (sloppy journalism?), in the aviation/travel industries and elsewhere.

The point is that people can use the terms they like, but it is significant that many of the inhabitants of places like Bombay, for example, use the term Bombay when speaking English and "Mumbai" when speaking Marathi. If it's good enough for those who live there.....

This discussion started because canberra97 (post #1087) appearedto be critical of LGS6753's use of the word Peking (in post #1085), and it's snowballed from there.

[ArtfulDodger]

Story here ....... Gatwick Passengers Held On Planes and 23 Flights Delayed Last Night After New Access Door System Failed: ITN « The Airport Informer (http://wp.me/p2jrV4-wm)

[Fairdealfrank]

Duplicated in error please ignore.

[Jack1985]

Just heard Aer Lingus provide charter flights on Sat/Sun from Gatwick just wondering if anyone could shed any light on this ? including destinations?

[Jamie2k9]

2 weekly charter flights fitted into the schedule by reducing DUB and dropping the Saturday ORK flight since 29 April.

Saturdays
Lamezia Terme, Italy
14.55-18.55 LGW-SUF
20.20-22.20 SUF-LGW
5 May to 27 October

Sundays
Preveza, Greece
06.50-12.20 LGW-PVK
13.30-18.30 PVK-LGW
27 May to 7 October

They also have a winter progame which is larger than the summer one.

[adfly]

Could anyone see Iberia possibly starting a LGW-MAD route fairly soon to make the most of Iberia's longhaul routes from MAD. Worth considering that Madrid form Gatwick grew significantly last year and with Ryanair's pullout(2 daily flights) there should be a reasonable gap in the market. Either that or Air Europa and the Orange will add an extra flight or two!

[cornishsimon]

I think that there is every chance we will see an IAG airline open LGW-MAD-LGW fairly soon using BA and IB flight codes to be used to feed longhaul from both airports.


cs

[EI-BUD]

Maybe Iberia Express will make an appearance at LGW???

[cornishsimon]

BA have just announced LGW-LAS 3 weekly using a 3 class 772 starting in October.


cs

[Skipness One Echo]

Are they cutting LHR I wonder? That's a proper tank on Branson's lawn!

[The96er]

Are they cutting LHR I wonder? That's a proper tank on Branson's lawn!

LHR-LAS seems to be doing really well, even the seats at the pointy end. Perhaps it's just an easy way to increase frequency to London without utilizing an extra LHR slot.

[Omnipresent]

LHR-LAS is bursting at the seams so there's no way capacity would be cut.

I had not expected the route to be served by both LGW and LHR, but adding LGW-LAS seems an easy to add capacity for leisure traffic.

[True Blue]

Agean Airlines showing on the Lgw timetable for Athens, seems to start at the end on Oct 12. 4 weekly with A321. Fact or error?

TB

[adfly]

I believe it was also showing a daily A320 to Larnaca!?

[True Blue]

Yes Larnaca also showing.

TB

[Skipness One Echo]

Have Cubana dropped Gatwick-Havana?

[Charley B]

S1E

I think they possibly have-I remember reading something about it last week-will miss the ILY arriving:(

[bunatern]

nothing on there own website but most booking engines have the flights loaded the same as lgws timetable.

[canberra97]

Cubana does not show on the LGW timetable so it would appear they have discontinued there flights, there has been no Cubana arrivals at LGW for a few weeks now but I am surprised they cut the flights so suddenly as I am sure alot of independant tour operators would have been put out as alot use this flight.

I am sure the demand is there as I have several friends who go to Cuba twice a year but I have heard the onboard service had alot to be desired plus the use of older Russian aircraft did not help.

I wonder if BA would reconsider reopening LGW to HAV as it would be a good move on there part even though VS offer flights Cuba has consistently held its own with a growing marekt, BA could even extend the flight to Belize as I am sure there would be ample belly cargo from there to support such flights.

[Seljuk22]

TK announcement respective IST-LGW to go double daily from 28th May
Turkish Airlines - London - Gatwick flights has increased - turkishairlines.com (http://www.turkishairlines.com/en-int/corporate/news/12085/london---gatwick-flights-has-increased.aspx)

[tubby linton]

How many movements were there last night associated with the Chelsea match?

[True Blue]

I have used Lgw at lot since the new owners took over and have to say, Lgw has improved a lot.

We are told that Lhr is full, I would say from experience, well over full. I often think, if it was another place, the H & S exec would step in to do something about it.

Lgw has been very successful recently at attracting new airlines and it seems Agean might be coming as well.

My question, will Lgw be increasingly successful at attracting "full service" carriers as they are not able to get into Lhr? As more new carriers arrive, will this encourage more new carriers and Lgw as a result see more business pax? Will it see more connecting pax?

I have to say, I really dislike the way some see Lgw as nothing more than a bucket and spade airport. I use it for business a lot. I find it hard to believe that if a carrier wants to serve London, they will not bother unless that can use Lhr.

Is Lgw on the verge of a change and more success?

[jabird]

I wonder if BA would reconsider reopening LGW to HAV as it would be a good move on there part even though VS offer flights Cuba has consistently held its own with a growing marekt, BA could even extend the flight to Belize as I am sure there would be ample belly cargo from there to support such flights.

I can see some serious politics there! Not sure that route would help the BA-AA friendship, even if things are easing with the good ole USA.

Beardie can do what he wants (ish).

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "Lgw has been very successful recently at attracting new airlines and it seems Agean might be coming as well.

My question, will Lgw be increasingly successful at attracting "full service" carriers as they are not able to get into Lhr? As more new carriers arrive, will this encourage more new carriers and Lgw as a result see more business pax? Will it see more connecting pax?"

LGW is attracting full service carriers, it always has but on a small scale. Many of the longhaul carriers at LGW are using as a stepping stone to LHR. The most recent example is WY and doubtless VN and KE will eventually make the journey to LHR-4 and join their Skyteam "colleagues".

LGW is unlikely to see a huge increase in connecting pax, although both BA and VS have a mini-hub there (and are still there purely because of lack of capacity at LHR), and U2 also have a huge base at LGW, however, most traffic will remain point-to-point.

"I have to say, I really dislike the way some see Lgw as nothing more than a bucket and spade airport. I use it for business a lot. I find it hard to believe that if a carrier wants to serve London, they will not bother unless that can use Lhr."

LGW is more than just a bucket and spade airport. Of all the London airport it alone is a hybrid: like LHR it has longhaul flights; like LHR and LCY it has business/leisure clientele; like STN and LTN it has no frills carriers and holiday charter companies.

"Is Lgw on the verge of a change and more success?"

LGW is a successful and important part of the UK's aviation infrastructure, but will always play second fiddle to LHR. It is pretty full and needs expansion, just like LHR.

[Skipness One Echo]

I have to say, I really dislike the way some see Lgw as nothing more than a bucket and spade airport. I use it for business a lot. I find it hard to believe that if a carrier wants to serve London, they will not bother unless that can use Lhr.

I think frequent users know LGW has many business type routes, mainly from flybe, BA and easyJet, but it does remain a bucket and spade dominated operation. That is not a bad thing. The problem is simply that on the same aircraft, on the same times per day, a choice between LHR and LGW has LHR win. Aegean are stepping into the shoes of Olympic who also ran both LGW and LHR operations.

[jabird]

Article here calling for LGW to add a second runway and improve rail access - from engineering perspective:

Should Gatwick become London's hub? | Blogs | New Civil Engineer (http://www.nce.co.uk/opinion/mark-hansford/should-gatwick-become-londons-hub/8630531.blog?blocktitle=News-analysis&contentID=682)

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "Article here calling for LGW to add a second runway and improve rail access - from engineering perspective:

Should Gatwick become London's hub? | Blogs | New Civil Engineer (http://www.nce.co.uk/opinion/mark-hansford/should-gatwick-become-londons-hub/8630531.blog?blocktitle=News-analysis&contentID=682)"

Non-suscribers won't be able to see the article.

Of course LGW needs a second runway, it's nearly as full as LHR, but LHR needs a third more urgently.

A planning agreement prohibits LGW expansion before 2019, a government with an anti-business and anti-enterprise agenda prohibits LHR expansion.

Have to say that rail access to/from Brighton, Croydon and London is pretty good as is access north of London on the East Midlands main line.

[Skipness One Echo]

Of course LGW needs a second runway
Much more bang for the buck and the economy at LHR.

In other news, who is operating the Air Nigeria service from Lagos? They don't appear to have B763s but that's what's timetabled.

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "Much more bang for the buck and the economy at LHR."

Agree 100%, did comment that LHR needs a third rwy more urgently than LGW needs a second!

[True Blue]

I don't buy this everything needs to be at Lhr thing. Yes that is probably first option for most airlines, including ones that really don't need to be at Lhr. But Lhr is full and will not have room for many years, if ever. So airlines now have 2 options mainly, don't bother or go to Lgw. I am working on the basis that Lgw wins out over Stn. After the takeover of BMi by BA, there will be no further big redistribution of slots at Lhr again, short of a 3rd runway. So whilst airlines might want to go to Lhr, they will not be able to as there is no room, something we all agree on. They are now being forced to use Lgw in a way they have never been before, and as more start to use Lgw, so it will change. I find it hard to believe that many airlines, if they cannot use Lhr, will turn down the chance to serve London because they can only get into Lgw. Lgw now has the chance to create a snowball effect, as more new carriers come to Lgw it will be easier to sell to other new carriers.

With a second runway meaning the only growth option for airlines in London, Lgw could become as successful as Lhr in many respects.

TB

[davidjohnson6]

TrueBlue - I very much doubt Gatwick will become as successful as Heathrow, because of what is know as the 'network effect'. Virtually every airline at Heathrow will accept connecting passengers from a sizeable proportion of other airlines. The largest carrier at Gatwick, namely Easyjet, along with a number of other Gatwick based airlines, does not accept connecting passengers, and thus the benefit of the wide range of desitinations in the network is significantly diminished.

Until the acceptance of connecting passengers at Gatwick increases significantly, it will remain an O&D airport, instead of a hub like Heathrow.

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "I don't buy this everything needs to be at Lhr thing. Yes that is probably first option for most airlines, including ones that really don't need to be at Lhr."

Which airlines don't really need to be there, True Blue?

Would say it's the other way around. Many small UK carriers need to be there but are excluded because of high airport charges for small aircraft and prohibitive slot costs.

Quote: "I am working on the basis that Lgw wins out over Stn."

Definitely, STN is not even on the horizon!

Quote: "After the takeover of BMi by BA, there will be no further big redistribution of slots at Lhr again, short of a 3rd runway. So whilst airlines might want to go to Lhr, they will not be able to as there is no room, something we all agree on."

Tragic isn't it! There will be the usual leasing and sub-leasing of slots or rejigging within alliances, etc..

Quote: "TrueBlue - I very much doubt Gatwick will become as successful as Heathrow, because of what is know as the 'network effect'. Virtually every airline at Heathrow will accept connecting passengers from a sizeable proportion of other airlines."

Also known as the "honeypot"!

Quote: "The largest carrier at Gatwick, namely Easyjet, along with a number of other Gatwick based airlines, does not accept connecting passengers, and thus the benefit of the wide range of desitinations in the network is significantly diminished.

Until the acceptance of connecting passengers at Gatwick increases significantly, it will remain an O&D airport, instead of a hub like Heathrow"

Exactly, davidjohnson6, that is the point! You've summarised it nicely!

[Charley B]

S1E
Air Nigeria I think are crewed by Egyptair using leased? A330 aircraft-thats what shows up on Radar 24
The livery is apparently Air Nigerias -have not seen one yet, was too cloudy:(

[True Blue]

Aegean Airlines flights now on sale via their site.

TB

[Dysneyland]

Spot on Charley B

Lagos flights (ANP292+ANP293) regularly operated by SU-GCI (Egyptair-leased A332) with Air Nigeria decals :ok:

[jabird]

Until the acceptance of connecting passengers at Gatwick increases significantly, it will remain an O&D airport, instead of a hub like Heathrow.

The presence of Easyjet and other ptp players at LGW is not, of itself, a barrier to the use of LGW as a hub.

As there is no realistic chance of expansion at LHR in the near future, LHR is not really a threat to LGW's expansion either, as new there are two main scenarios for new LH routes to/from London:

1) They go to LGW anyway - as with new routes to HAN, SGN, HKG, PEK, ICN and so on.

2) Slots get juggled and they go to LHR, meaning there is some demand still displaced to LGW.


Over time, there is more and more latent demand for connections to be provided - but LGW would not offer the range or the frequency that LHR does.

However, there are other players besides BA who could offer connections, most notably BE, who are chummy both with Oneworld through their BA part parentage and with Skyteam through their arrangements with AF.

So it is not a question of which airport is going to be the main hub, as that isn't on the agenda at the moment. It is a question of whether or not LGW can act as a hub facility in some way - and the answer is clearly yes.


PS - I managed to read the article, might be a browser / cookies issue but if they are going to play silly like that I'll just paste the whole thing in.

[jabird]

[Note: I am not connected to NCE, I happened to find the article as I was searching]

18 May, 2012

While the South East airport capacity debate centres on a Heathrow third runway versus Boris Island in the Thames Estuary, Gatwick is coolly making an understated case for the next new runway to head its way.

Services there are growing, customer satisfaction is high and the new owners, led by Global Infrastructure Partners, have money to invest. With no serious plans for an estuary airport on the table, no committed politicians prepared to back a Heathrow third runway and with the clock rapidly now ticking towards 2019 – when an agreement with the local community not to build a second runway at Gatwick expires – it is far from beyond the realms of possibility that the much-vaunted UK hub airport status could shift south to Sussex.

Yes, today, it seems unlikely. Gatwick has just one runway and is a classic point-to-point airport and few airlines use it as a hub to transfer passengers around the world. But consider this: it is already UK’s second largest airport and the busiest single-runway airport in the world.

In addition it now serves more than 200 destinations in 90 countries for around 34M passengers a year on short and long-haul services. Only this month Air China launched its first non-stop service from Gatwick to Beijing. And significantly its owners – a group of international investment funds, of which Global Infrastructure Partners is the largest shareholder – are feeling punchy.

“Gatwick not only has the capacity to grow to serve 40M passengers by 2020 but also has the ability to serve London just as effectively as Heathrow – and do so for less than half the cost,” says Gatwick Airport chief commercial officer Guy Stephenson. “Air China’s decision to expand this route from Gatwick sends a strong message that Gatwick is competing.”

Stephenson knows that growth at his airport can be catered for with just one runway up to 2020. But after that, he needs more capacity. What chance that he will get it?

Stephenson is unsurprisingly sceptical of the Thames Estuary plan and doubtful of the chances of Heathrow getting its much sought after third runway – despite the growing pressure from big business and the airlines for government to chance its stance.

Both schemes are getting more and more vociferous in their lobbying and their efforts are attracting more and more attention.

Prime minister David Cameron told an audience of construction industry bosses at the ICE in March that the government was mindful of the need for more capacity in the South East. In the same week his chancellor George Osborne said it was time to “confront” the lack of airport capacity in south east England and committed transport secretary Justine Greening to setting out options later this summer. But both were insistent that this capacity would not come at Heathrow. Instead, they pointed towards proposals for a hub airport in the estuary, a proposal backed by recently re-elected London mayor Boris Johnson but utterly derided by airlines and business. And while Greening’s study won’t report until the summer, what alternatives – other than Gatwick – are there?

Consultant Parsons Brinckerhoff is currently carrying out a study for the recently formed South East Local Enterprise Partnership looking at ways to “squeeze” as much capacity as possible from existing major airports — while balancing air space design constraints, investment costs and surface access needs. The proposals could offer some wriggle room.

Because while Heathrow is virtually at capacity and by 2020 Gatwick will be too, Stansted and Luton have space. The killer question is how to use that spare capacity at “point to point” airports like Gatwick and Stansted in a way that supports business’ and airlines desire for London Heathrow to retain its “hub” reputation.

It’s not easy; but there is a way. Last year the Department for Transport is understood to have examined – and rejected – the idea of a high speed airside rail link between Heathrow and Gatwick. The theory of connecting up London’s two biggest airports by a 15 minute link that keeps transferring passengers airside is good, but the practicality, especially after Heathrow owner BAA was forced to sell Gatwick, is less so.

Any plans to better connect Stansted to either Heathrow or Gatwick are hardly easy either, especially with the future ownership of Stansted uncertain – BAA lost its appeal against a Competition Commission order to sell in February, although it is appealing that decision. It continues to argue that Heathrow and Stansted are different types of airport, serving different types of customer and therefore owning both is not anti-competitive.

That continued uncertainty is not helpful. Regardless, plans for a better Stansted to Gatwick link are gaining traction. Dubbed Brighton Main Line (BML) 2, promoters claim the idea borne out of a campaign to upgrade the Uckfield line near Brighton is worthy of serious consideration.

Key to it is a new direct link between Brighton and the Uckfield line achieved by means of a new 2km long tunnel through the South Downs. This relatively small infrastructure upgrade would unlock a second route from Brighton to London, permit the dedicated central London to Gatwick Express rail services to be reinstated, and offer Gatwick fast, direct trains to Canary Wharf Crossrail. These trains would not terminate there but continue on to Stratford and London Stansted.

Network Rail certainly accepts that the existing BML that serves Gatwick cannot cope with demand, and Gatwick’s owners are pushing hard for an upgrade.

They commissioned consultant Arup to look at how its future growth could be served and last month released its findings – chiefly that the BML needs serious upgrading between Gatwick and London.

Enhancing the airports’ rail links is critical: The number of people travelling between Gatwick airport and London by rail could increase by 30% in eight years and the number of non-air passengers travelling on the same services could grow by 29%.

Whether BML2 fits the bill has not yet been examined, although its promoters are keen: “It is a detailed and carefully thought through response to the increasing urgency to provide far greater capacity between major locations in the South East, but primarily London, Croydon, Gatwick, Brighton, the Sussex coast, Tonbridge and West Kent,” they say.

The suggestion is that the programme could be reasonably spread – with design complete and planning approval obtained by 2014 and construction complete by 2020; by which time a second runway at Gatwick could – in theory – be in operation. So is it really fanciful to suggest that a linked-up Gatwick and Stansted, with three runways between them, could be a serious contender against Heathrow? We will know soon enough; seven years is no time at all in transport planning.

[Skipness One Echo]

There's a lot of money being spent at Gatwick, a Hell of a lot. I saw two guys employed to sweep the dust from the roof of the Transit in the North Terminal overnight. Now I like that sort of thing but it made me think in this climate it was a little extravagant? Then I got to the South Terminal and walked into the gents. I actually physically stopped and briefly wondered if I had wandered into the First Class area. Each has a private type urinal complete with its' own wash basin and hand dryer. The cubicles are comfortably huge. Now I know they're investing, but it made me think how in the name of God they're ever going to get some of this investmet back. The airport looks awesome, it's never been this new or shiny (in the main!), however the nagging doubt hit that GIP always aim to sell before too long and the sheer amount of TLC is in stark contrast to most of the rest of UK Airports. They really are trying to match T5 and the new T2 at LHR as much as possible in existing facilities.

I just wonder how much more they think they can charge easyJet for their use?

[lozza86]

It appears lufthansa are increasing lgw-Frankfurt later in year. Timetable on lgw website lists an extra 2 weekly rotations using germanwings a319 equipment. The current 2 daily rotations will both revert to 737-500 equipment.

[Fairdealfrank]

Very interesting article, jabird, very interesting indeed.

Of course a while back GIP were claiming to have no intentions of building a second runway. It's easy to understand why: loads of hassle, loads of expenditure and loads of time, possibly for nothing. Doubtless they know that the economic benefits of an extra runway are greatest at LHR, and are familiar with the saga of LHR's third rwy: it's off, then it's on, now it's off again, but forever? not neccessarily, who knows?

If they were to get all the approvals and no aggravation from residents (unlikely), and if soon after this LHR does as well (again unlikely, but less so), it's one hell of a risk! In that event, much of LGW's business and potential payback would migrate to LHR, as slots once again become available and affordable. Such migrations have happened before and would almost certainly happen again, and LGW could be left with an underused second rwy and a massive bill.

GIP's first responsibility is possibly to their shareholders, they have to see a return on their investment. Maybe a business's first responsibility should be to customers and staff, but that is a different debate and not for now.

Obviously enterprise involves risks, but calculated risks. This is where the casino banks went wrong, also a different debate and not for now! Chasing after a second runway at LGW could be a risky option until LHR has it's third, if that ever happens.

As for a link to STN, it's irrelevant. The case for STN expansion is even weaker that that for LGW, so it's pointless wasting public money linking the two for the sake of it. Again we're talking about a major publicly funded transport option, something that is not required to expand LHR.

However, that is not say that the new Brighton mainline should not go ahead with a link to Stratford, that will stand or fail on it's own merits as a major improvement to the south-east's rail infrastructure. It is also a very long term consideration, look at the Crossrail example!

With reference to the excellent improvements at LGW mentioned by Skipness One Echo (although the domestic pier at LGW-south was still a disgrace last summer)!

The last line of the post says it all:

Quote: "I just wonder how much more they think they can charge easyJet for their use?"

To which only these words need be added...."and BE".

[Aero Mad]

Certainly agree with you Fairdealfrank although if it weren't for the demands and prejudices of the market in this particular case then an STN link would make everything begin to work rather neatly (although I am in principle a proponent of the free market but let's not open that can of worms). But was your last sentence referring to Flybe or in fact something else?

If it was referring to Flybe, then looking at LGW's charges and actions lately it is hardly as though they are encouraging them to stay. BE is clearly small fry to GIP - hence they certainly don't incentivise the use DH8s (and the E75s are hardly any better)... whilst Flybe is the third largest holder of LGW slots, you can bet that GIP would far rather those (in general) very valuable and well-timed rights went to users of larger aircraft or better still the international carriers who are knocking on Gatwick's door - whilst it is true that LGW is only about 80% full, it is certainly running at capacity during the morning and evening peaks. If Flybe pulled out (hypothetically... obviously it is rather unlikely) then the routes could be replaced in the main by EZY/BA, who are already in competition on a number of routes (eg. BHD, INV, IOM, NTE, JER). For GIP, to some extent they are therefore a waste of space... so perhaps they won't be playing to Flybe's tune and if the latter won't pay the fees then so be it.

[CabinCrewe]

Condecension alert ! Slow down indeed....:rolleyes:

[Skipness One Echo]

Sorry sorry, been up a day and a half without sleep, I'll take my happy pills now.....

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "Condecension alert ! Slow down indeed"

Quote: "Was that directed at me? If so, apologies as I didn't mean my post to come across that way."

Quote: "Sorry sorry, been up a day and a half without sleep, I'll take my happy pills now....."

Sorry as well if it was me, but not sure where the condecension was and why we are all saying sorry.


Quote: "Certainly agree with you Fairdealfrank although if it weren't for the demands and prejudices of the market in this particular case then an STN link would make everything begin to work rather neatly (although I am in principle a proponent of the free market but let's not open that can of worms). But was your last sentence referring to Flybe or in fact something else?

If it was referring to Flybe, then looking at LGW's charges and actions lately it is hardly as though they are encouraging them to stay. BE is clearly small fry to GIP - hence they certainly don't incentivise the use DH8s (and the E75s are hardly any better)... whilst Flybe is the third largest holder of LGW slots, you can bet that GIP would far rather those (in general) very valuable and well-timed rights went to users of larger aircraft or better still the international carriers who are knocking on Gatwick's door - whilst it is true that LGW is only about 80% full, it is certainly running at capacity during the morning and evening peaks. If Flybe pulled out (hypothetically... obviously it is rather unlikely) then the routes could be replaced in the main by EZY/BA, who are already in competition on a number of routes (eg. BHD, INV, IOM, NTE, JER). For GIP, to some extent they are therefore a waste of space... so perhaps they won't be playing to Flybe's tune and if the latter won't pay the fees then so be it."

Yes, AERO MAD, indeed it was Flybe, and yes, point taken! Basicly LGW would be following LHR where this sort of thing has happened for years.

[Skipness One Echo]

Does anyone properly know how GIP plans on getting a return on this major investment?

[True Blue]

I refer to post 1137 from S1E. Can I also state now that this is in no way any criticism towards S1E.

I find the comments very interesting and are a commentary on how many in the UK now think. We accept really poor standards here and when an organisation tries to stand out, we immediately start to question the wisdom of what they are doing.

I have often compared Lhr/Lgw in the past to Hkg and Sin. Arriving back from Hkg/Sin, the first thing that always struck me was how dirty our airports were compared to the two I have mentioned. Arriving at these 2 airports is , for many, their first impression of the UK and a good impression they get, dirt, rubbish, just awful. I can only assume that a major part of the problem in the past was that BAA was not prepared to pay for enough cleaners, nor were they interested in checking the quality of the work.

Now we have Lgw making a major effort to change this aspect of airports. What they are trying to do is what we should want, expect. Lgw should be supported for the efforts that they are making at an airport that was, for years, neglected. Why should we not want what Lgw are now trying to provide? If it can be done at Hkg/Sin, why should we not expect the same here? I expect it and I applaud lgw for the efforts they are making. And they can improve more, I would love to take the Chief Exec on a walk through domestic arrivals in the North terminal and show him what I see.

Show your support for an airport trying to make a difference and refuse the awful standards we see in most aspects of our daily lives.

TB

[Skipness One Echo]

A good point and well made, however in the very competitive London airport environment, I wonder how it makes sense. LTN, STN, SEN compete on price with low airport fees with the cost of trolleys and clear bags for security met by the customer. LHR and LGW offset this partly by having a massive retail income, and LHR will be charging for new facilities at T5 and T2. LHR is also a magnet for world airlines.

LGW is still easyJet, Thomson, Thomas Cook, Monarch and fly be dominated. Even the BA fleet is leisure focussed and very price competitve against EZY, so I doubt LGW can hike prices up too high. The competition on price is too heavy.
Nothing wrong with excellent facilites so long as they're commercially viable, the new Stansted terminal never actually was though it's really nice to use. It exists as a cross subsidy from LHR via BAA.

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "The competition on price is too heavy.
Nothing wrong with excellent facilites so long as they're commercially viable, the new Stansted terminal never actually was though it's really nice to use. It exists as a cross subsidy from LHR via BAA."

LHR won't be cross-subsidising STN for much longer, having lost their latest appeal, BAA now have to sell STN.

[boeing767]

Aegean will launch a 4-weekly service between Athens and London Gatwick starting 28 Ocotber 2012. From the same date, the Larnaca-Heathrow service will move to Gatwick as well.

Schedule:

Athens-London Gatwick
A3 606 ATH 0815 1015 LGW A321 2345
A3 607 LGW 1115 1700 ATH A321 2345

Larnaca-London Gatwick
A3 758 LCA 1250 1550 LGW A320 Daily
A3 759 LGW 1640 2320 LCA A320 Daily

[ArtfulDodger]

The single runway in repair overnight plus fog this morning, with only a 'visual rules' emergency strip in use caused many diversions overnight.

Story here..... Airport Chaos as 1500 passengers diverted away from Gatwick Airport landings (http://wp.me/p2jrV4-AQ)

[WHBM]

I wonder who allowed the works to start when low vis was forecast ......

[commit aviation]

I don't believe the forecast predicted the weather to be that bad.
Whilst most people in the know take the met office forecast with a pinch of salt as it can be a little wide of the mark at times, you have to work with what they give you. If you cancelled every time you thought it *might* be foggy then the work would last well in to 2013!
This is the nature of operations: The ops teams at airports & airlines make 100s of decisions every day & you never know or think about the 99 out 100 they get right. Ultimately this was one night when at LGW things went wrong so it's headline news. I am sure they will have a wash up & senior management will become even more risk averse as a result but I wonder how many other occasions they have made a similar call & got it right.

[compton3bravo]

In days gone by I remember they used to do maintenance in March and early November when traffic was very light. This used to happen at both Luton and Gatwick and they used to co-ordinate so the work did not overlap. Very surprised doing maintenance towards the end of May and they certainly paid a hefty price last night.

[lgwpave]

The actual work being carried out is re-surfacing and replacement of all light fittings. Due to the fact that works can only be carried out at night, it will take several months to complete, during which time the runway has to be downgraded to Cat 1.

It is being carried out during the summer as low vis incidents are less likely, but due to s*d's law it will sometimes occur, causing disruption. Unfortunately there's no real alternative to carrying out this type of work with only one main runway available (How about a 2nd ? - Now there's an idea!)

[jdcg]

Norwegian launching flights to Torp from LGW.

[adfly]

Good to hear of them further expanding their extensive LGW operation, what with them ordering over 200 aircraft recently does anyone think we could see a base at LGW, I believe it is their largest 'non-base' currently and a base with say, 3 aircraft would allow early morning flights to; OSL, ARN and CPH all of which currently have 3 flights per day.

It would also allow for further routes into other airports in the nordic region, Billund springs to mind seen as it was recently dropped by Climber Sterling, who flew the route up to 3 times a day. Obviously on a 733/738 there would probably only be 6/7 flights per week but lower fares offered by Norweigen compared to Climber should help them to fill the extra seats!

I could not see Easyjet being too much of a threat to them either as they are already strongly established in their market and although ezy compete on CPH with 2/3 daily flights their previous inroads into Scandinavia/Nordic Countries has not worked too well (GOT, HEL). Ryanair's reasonable presense in the Nordic market is a further deterrent to any ezy expansion in the region.

[davidjohnson6]

adfly - I don't know the answer to this, but is there room for Ryanair, BA and Norwegian on the London-Billund market, even with the presence of Legoland ?

[True Blue]

This has been an interesting year for Gatwick, with new operators. Any views on what additional new operators/routes we might see announced by the end of this year?

TB

[chinapattern]

How are the VN flights doing? And are they all routed through CDG and FRA now?

[lozza86]

On 6th July, the afternoon emirates flight will operate into gatwick with a380 on a one-off basis. Last-minute aircraft change is still a possibility but this is first ever scheduled a380 into gatwick!

[Skipness One Echo]

Why? They'll need to bus as there are no on terminal stands capable of taking one.

[Charley B]

Thanks for the heads up-that will make my day:)
Just confirming that is EK 15 the lunch time arrival???

[Seljuk22]

Update at 0720GMT 19JUN12

Emirates on 06JUL12 is to operate Airbus A380 aircraft on Dubai – London Gatwick EK015/016 flight, as per 19JUN12. This marks the first-ever A380 service on scheduled basis operating into London Gatwick, despite being one-time arrangement.
Schedule:

EK015 DXB0800 – 1230LGW 388
EK016 LGW1530 – 0130+1DXB 388
Last minute aircraft change remains possible.
Emirates Plans A380 London Gatwick Service on 06JUL12 | Airline Route (http://airlineroute.net/2012/06/19/ek-lgw-jul12/)

[Dannyboy39]

Apparently there are several charter airlines offering flights to Kiev return on the same day 24th June for the England v Italy game. Any info?

[lozza86]

Good news.....Afriqiyah have just announced they are finally resuming Gatwick services after a year of absence. Service begins 3rd july. Looks like a330-200 to be used. These aircraft have undergone repairs at Bordeaux recently.

[vespasia]

Re the A380
Why? They'll need to bus as there are no on terminal stands capable of taking one.

Yes there are (although they can't use the upper doors and restrictions apply to the stands on either side) :)

[Skipness One Echo]

Which stands are A380 ready? Bearing in mind the taxiways to and from the runway need to be A380 able, alas unlike LHR, there is no A380 chart on the ais page.

[vespasia]

Taxi routes are available (albeit with leader vehicle escort and restrictions on nearby taxiways but in practise this won't be a problem). The stands aren't A380 ready as such (which is why no AIP entry), but the plan is to use 51 which is plenty long enough. Temporary restrictions will need to be applied to 50 and 52 while the aircraft is there:)

[Skipness One Echo]

Awesome, might nip out and see it. Just remember to make sure they don't try and go under the bridge....

[LGWWelsh]

Remote stands 143, 144 and 145 are being used for anyone airside wanting to see the 380 landing or taking off.

[TSR2]

Mmmm ... the article seems a little ambiguous to me. Does it mean that one of the three daily services will be operated by an A380 on a permanent basis OR does it mean as a one-off to mark the airlines 25th year of service to the airport.

[Charley B]

TSR2
It is just a one off on the EK 15 flight at lunchtime on 6th July --if all goes well,you never know!

[OltonPete]

BA Boss: UK Aviation Policy Is A Disgrace - Yahoo! News UK (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/ba-boss-uk-aviation-policy-disgrace-112512133.html)

More about UK Government air policy or lack of one but also mentions
Gatwick's financials.

or just Gatwick

http://www.breakingtravelnews.com/news/article/gatwick-reports-uptick-in-profits/

Pete

[adfly]

In addition to the 3 weekly Last Vegas flights announced recently BA will also add 3 daily flights to Barcelona from 23rd February 2013..

Link: http://www.breakingtravelnews.com/news/article/british-airways-boosts-uk-regional-services-following-bmi-deal/

[True Blue]

I take it these new routes to Las Vegas and Barcelona are in preparation for the pull-out of BA from Lgw much discussed on this thread?

Slightly odd way to go about it.:confused:

TB

[Skipness One Echo]

I take it these new routes to Las Vegas and Barcelona are in preparation for the pull-out of BA from Lgw much discussed on this thread?
LGW-BCN is hardly a "new" route as it was suspended not too long, it was certainly flown from 2005-2009 and possibly thereafter, so not sure why given the state of the Spanish economy they think it's worth another go. Iberia don't even have a large presence there so not much in the way of IAG presence. I don't see BA pulling long haul from LGW but short haul just seems to be getting smaller each year, remember every time a "new" route is flown, another route is downsized or dropped as that fleet size is only going one way at the moment.

[cornishsimon]

remember every time a "new" route is flown, another route is downsized or
dropped as that fleet size is only going one way at the moment.


Unless the suggestion about some of the BMI Baby 733s heading to LGW turns out to be true ?


cs

[adfly]

Indeed! the 2 Daily Marseilles flights are off to Heathrow and Heathrow also gets extra flights to Bolonga although it is not yet clear if this is at the expense of any of the LGW flights. However gatwick is getting more Turin and Salzburg flights for the Ski season and Malaga, Faro and Marrakech are getting extra flights (the latter presumably gaining the former BMI services frequency's).

However lately BA have been stepping on EZY's toes what with NCE last year and now BCN, hopefully they are able to able to the higher end of the market and get some feed for the long haul ex. LGW.

I should also add that BA will unveil more new routes next month, however it is not yet clear what they will be and where from.

[canberra97]

BA will move all existing Gatwick to Bologna flights to Heathrow next summer making it a LHR route 3 x daily at the expense of LGW.

Hopefully more new routes for BA at LGW are still to be announced!

[cornishsimon]

LGW-RAK is to go daily up from 3 weekly which seems to be to free up the BMI LHR-RAK slots


cs

[Andrew R]

The south terminal, airside departures area is an overcrowded mess of a place. Any plans for expansion?

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "The south terminal, airside departures area is an overcrowded mess of a place. Any plans for expansion?"

The domestic pier is a disgrace as well!

[Skipness One Echo]

The domestic pier is a disgrace as well!
It was built before the BAC111 entered service so it's hardly young. Pier One as it is known is being demolished very soon to be replaced with a whole new facility. As for the South Terminal mall, well what did you expect from BAA? GIP are making the best of landside at the moment, I believe airside will follow.

[chipsbrand]

Have used Gatwick recently, first time in a couple of years. My car was parked in South Terminal long term park. Got a very good price on the Internet for that. When I collected my car last evening (Sat) it was easy to see why. Several of the zones were completely empty. In all the previous years I have used LGW these car parks have been virtually full throughout the summer. It seems that LGW may be having a very bad summer.
Also there were no queues at check-in, security or at Border control on my return. Another sign of a very weak market.
What are other people's thoughts about this?

[Aero Mad]

Look at the CAA stats and I think you'll find it isn't that bad at all.

[racedo]

My car was parked in South Terminal long term park. Got a very good price on the Internet for that. When I collected my car last evening (Sat) it was easy to see why. Several of the zones were completely empty. In all the previous years I have used LGW these car parks have been virtually full throughout the summer. It seems that LGW may be having a very bad summer.
Also there were no queues at check-in, security or at Border control on my return. Another sign of a very weak market.

Depends as given the zonal parking they like to operate you could be seeing where people a week previously had parked and then returned and gone home and its such a size its really hard to guage how full it is. Also the additional holiday parking is being used.

Kudos to Gatwick Airport for making getting through the airport easier as over last 12 months a lot more effort has gone into getting people in and out quicker.

Of course the big holiday rush only starts now for next 3 weeks so will be interesting to see if its the same.

Many friends who were previously package now tend to book flights themselves and accom separately, aptly described to me as no more 3am checkins as now they can select their own flights when it suits them.

The parking point is well made as they now all seem to combine taxi /public transport which changes perspective if flight during the day rather than drive.

I guess the market is changing as Package operators will attest to.

[JimNich]

I'm guessing, due to this wonderful spell of weather, there could be a rush for those late booking bargains, so maybe the stats won't be too bad after all. But its true, the way people, particularly families, book holidays now has changed drastically over the last few years. Arriving early in the morning at your holiday destination to be greeted by some hungover teenager on your two hour coach journey, to then wait three hours for your room to be ready is no fun at all!

Click, flight. Click, apartment/villa. Click, car hire. Job done.

[Capvermell]

I think what is much more likely is that the regular price for this parking had been increased far too much in the name of political correctness about using public transport and in a recessionary environment people had responded by not booking car parking and either taking public transport or getting their friends to take them to the airport.

Faced with under booked car parks the operators have finally cut the prices but too late to have a big enough impact at this stage of the summer season.

With the weather we are having I personally can't believe that almost every single seat on a plane to the Mediterranean from the UK to the end of the summer school holiday season isn't already sold out although I wouldn't be surprised if the number of flights being operated this season hadn't been cut back significantly before the start of the season due to the recession. However some of the operators like Thomson are very nimble and will lay on say night flights to airports like Palma, Mallorca at short notice to provide extra capacity if all their existing holidays and airline seats to the Mediterranean have now sold out (the short haul planes generally don't fly overnight to the Med but can do to airports that allow 24 hour landings and take offs if the demand is there). There is of course plenty of hotel and apartment ccommodation standing empty down in the Mediterrranean and and especially Spain and Portugal that can be brought in to use at short notice if the demand to go there from customers materialises

[TurboTomato]

The office units I work in lease some of our car parking space to a Gatwick valet parking company and there's plenty of cars in there already.

[Falcon666]

BBC News - Gatwick Airport plans to handle 40m passengers by 2021 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-18897870)

New master plan out. 40 mppa by 2020 ,up to 45 mppa by 2030.

[davidjohnson6]

New master plan out. 40 mppa by 2020 ,up to 45 mppa by 2030That means an annual growth rate of 1.7 % between now and 2021/22. The masterplan numbers indicate that average number of passengers per aircraft movement will go from 136 to 144.

While the use of A380s and B787s and the migration of charter carriers to B767 will play a part, presumably this is achieved most easily by significantly raising the charges for airlines with smaller aircraft like Aurigny and flybe, while wide body operators have only a small increase in charges. The commitment in the masterplan to being affordable to all carriers is vague and woolly.

[JimNich]

Surely ethnically cleansing operators (who have been going in and out of LGW for years) in this manner can't be legal? Or at the very least a bit unsavoury (although good business sense I suppose). At a guess BE must be shifting on average 3 - 4 thousand pax a day, gauranteed. Maybe peanuts compared to Easy but still, would they really risk killing the high value metal goose like this? :confused:

[JimNich]

ACG

Can't argue with any of that, of course its a business in the business of making money and, potentially, full airbuses or bigger will bring in more revenue than a Flybe Dash with 50 pax on board. Still, those dashes and Ejets are pretty much guaranteed for the long term. Are they really that confident about the stability and long term surviveability of their future customers? One in the hand and all that.

And those customers flying to Europe, they would be coming from.......?

[j636]

Lufthansa to close Gatwick from 28 October.

[TSR2]

Lufthansa to close Gatwick from 28 October.

Didn't know Lufthansa owned Gatwick ;)

[Skipness One Echo]

Lufthansa to close Gatwick from 28 October.
Can't say I am surprised but given the amount of money GIP are throwing at Gatters, I was hopeful some form of legacy network airlines would stay this time around. Was this not rumoured to be a pre-emptive against an easyJet entrance on FRA-LGW? If so, is that now more likely?

As to Aer Lingus on BHD-LGW, I have to say, I suspect flybe will have them for lunch. The ERJ-190 is a better product for this market and Aer Lingus losing money on new things at LGW is becoming an annual tradition!

[SWBKCB]

If more customers want to fly to Europe than to the regions, then the regions will lose and the UK will be that little more London-centric. Who said capitalism is fair?

And the regions will be flying via AMS, CDG, FRA, DXB, ZRH etc, and the UK will lose out.

[cornishsimon]

Lufthansa to close Gatwick from 28 October.


Shame for LGW

But, lets be honest, this was only going to be a matter of time wasnt it ?

I would love to see BA add FRA ex LGW as its about time that BA at Gatters had a German route again.

And on the subject of BE & EI on Belfast, it strikes me that having EI feed LHR under BA codeshare and having EI do it at LGW seems odd, id see the feed into LGW, what little currently exists being switched to EI along with the current DUB and ORK


cs

[chipsbrand]

I cannot work out the logic of EI flying from either Belfast airport to LGW. Maybe they did not do any assessment of the actual and potential competition. Looks just like a re-run of their disastrous forays into AGP and FAO from LGW where it appears they did not even cover their direct operating costs.

[danielson81]

Lufthansa to close Gatwick from 28 October.

Thats a shame, it was useful for connecting (and cheaper!) long haul flights via Frankfurt!

[TurboTomato]

How long have Pegasus operated out of Gatwick?

[groundagent]

Lufthansa to close Gatwick from 28 October.
Thats a shame, it was useful for connecting (and cheaper!) long haul flights via Frankfurt!

Good news then that they are not cancelling for good, just for winter. Still selling on their website for 31st March 2012 =>

GA

[Skipness One Echo]

What was the reason for the bridge at the North Terminal, the one over the taxiway?
Given it's more usual to dig a tunnel, was there a compelling issue to go over rather than under?
Cheers!

[roverman]

Skipness, it was Almost certainly cheaper, although not cheap, to build a bridge as against a tunnel, with all the underground service issues that would entail. Any civil engineers reading will no doubt be able to quantify. Similar situation at MAN T2 where a tunnel was in the original plan for Phase 2 to link the main terminal with a proposed remote satellite servicing the 80-84 and 233-243 stands. Tunnel route still safeguarded but unlikely to be built in the foreseeable. The Gatwick idea is innovative and may be copied at MAN. These days retail rules, and remote satellites only get built if there is space to stuff them with shops and sufficient dwell time for pax to spend!

[TurboTomato]

It's not tall enough to clear an A380 tail, is it?

[j636]

Easyjet have applied to operate 2 daily flights to Moscow (didn't say which airport) from Jan or Feb 2013.

British Airways applied to operate 2 daily flights to Moscow Sheremetyevo from Jan or Feb 2013.

14 slots will be available from October after Bmi..

[Airlift21]

Flightradar24.com is showing aircraft diverting from LGW and both holds are in use, but nothing's landing.
Anyone know what the problem is?

[EI-BUD]

Airlift21,

Fog at LGW check easyjet website and enter flight numbers into arrivals and departures and it will tell you. Flights gone to Stansted.!!!

EI-BUD

[Airlift21]

Thanks guys!

[fireflybob]

METARs not showing fog at LGW!

[Alex757]

Still WX problems today?

FR24 is showing a lot of arrivals holding en route to Gatwick

[TurboTomato]

Plenty of heavy showers here but nothing out of the ordinary. Plenty of aircraft coming in from what I can hear.

[BHX5DME]

BHX had 6 diversions (5 EZY & 1 BAW) between 00.05-00.30 this morning.

All had gone by this morning.

[Skipness One Echo]

They were using the secondary runway which does not have the level of ILS as 26L/08R does. This has been going on for a while between the departure of the last heavy and the morning inbounds.

[StevieW]

How long is the runway maintenance scheduled to last, and when did it start? Makes me wonder why they don't do it over the winter, when there are hardly any flights inbound or outbound between 0000 and 0600.

[racedo]

How long is the runway maintenance scheduled to last, and when did it start? Makes me wonder why they don't do it over the winter, when there are hardly any flights inbound or outbound between 0000 and 0600.

Something to do with snow / ice and rain perhaps...........though winter didn't have a lot of it.

[Charley B]

It started in March and will go on till December-every night 21.30-05.30 except Sundays(weather permitting)
Replacing runway lighting and electrical cables as well.

[TCX69]

Today's BA2964/5 LGW-GLA-LGW will be operated by bmi A321 G-MEDL. Arriving from LHR as BA9255P at 1640 & departing back to LHR as BA9256P at 2130.

[Seljuk22]

HK Airlines will give up LGW-HKG from 3rd September.

EZY based its 50th a/c at LGW last week:
easyJet’s biggest base at London Gatwick has 50 aircraft and almost 100 routes; Spain remains #1 market in summer | anna.aero (http://www.anna.aero/2012/08/02/easyjets-biggest-base-at-london-gatwick-reaches-50-aircraft-and-almost-100-routes/)

[Seljuk22]

BA will return to CMB next March
British Airways to return in March 2013 | The Sundaytimes Sri Lanka (http://www.sundaytimes.lk/120805/business-times/british-airways-to-return-in-march-2013-7625.html)

[j636]

Ryanair are dropping 4 LGW routes from October. They will only retain flights to DUB, ORK, SNN.

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "British Airways applied to operate 2 daily flights to Moscow Sheremetyevo from Jan or Feb 2013."

Find this surprising: not the LGW part, the SVO part!

Shortage of slots at DME? Surely not!

[globetrotter79]

Find this surprising: not the LGW part, the SVO part!

I think the point is that they pretty much know they aren't going to win the frequencies in the scarce capacity hearing. Neither the UK (nor, for what it is worth, the Russians) are going to like the thought of all allowable London-Moscow frequencies falling into the hands of BA. That said, BA have at least got to try....so the only possible argument that they can 'reasonably' give to use the extra frequencies is the basis that they are trying to serve a different market from the LHR-DME route.

From what Virgin have said, it is difficult to tell if they are going after one or both daily London-Moscow frequencies. I may be wrong, but it sort of sounds like just one.

The rather more interesting question is who will get the other one. Sure, easyJet seems quite obvious but they are going to have to go some fair distance to prove to the authorities that they can do what is necessary to allow codesharing on their flights (as required under the bilateral by the Russians)....plus there is the question of a certain history of them taking the London-Cairo route to scarce capacity hearing (this was some while before the Egyptian troubles), winning the frequencies but never taking up the route. Sure, Moscow is a totally different market, but I am not sure how the UK side view carriers 'playing the system' but not following through with what they've promised..

[davidjohnson6]

globetrotter - if easyJet were granted the rights to fly to Cairo, why did they not take up those rights ? I thought that the Egyptian Govt didn't like the orange brigade's no-frills image at the time, and decided to say 'No'

[Aksai Oiler]

Why is it surprising? Road traffic in Moscow is bloody awful, it has been known to take up to 5 hours to transit from DME to SVO. DME is good for some domestic flights with S7, Transaero, etc. I used to commute to Kazakhstan via BA, and then either Transaero to Atyrau or Uralsk, or Orenburg Airlines down to Orenburg.

SVO also has good domestic connections, maybe, though I doubt it, this is what BA is looking at. A stupid for example is the Russian migration to the Costas. I was in Zurich yesterday flying to Malaga and the plane had quite a good representation of Russians heading south, this despite a daily Aeroflot rotation and numerous charters to Malaga

[Fairdealfrank]

AFAIK, there are/were 2 airlines from each country on LON-MOW each doing 2 flights/day:

BA LHR-DME
BD LHR-DME
SU LHR-SVO
UN LHR-DME

The 2 BD flights are up for grabs with VS chasing, with VS on the route instead of BD, that still leaves 2 flights/day each on 2 carriers from each country.

The UN flights use LHR slots leased from BD, an agreement which BA inherited. When this agreement ends, does BA have to surrender those slots permanently to UN, just generally, or do they revert to BA?

Is BA's LGW-SVO idea hedging their bets in case VS only takes up 1 of the 2 daily frequencies up for grabs?

If so, think VS may regret taking up just 1 of those frequencies, it should be a high yielding route for them.

IIRC wasn't BA doing more than twice daily to Moscow a few years ago?

BTW, find the proposed return to SVO surprising because BA switched all flights from SVO to DME some 8 (?) years ago, must have been good reasons.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

When DME was privatised, and Swiss became the first International carrier it was fantastic, then other International carriers were attracted.

It had a light interior, the terminal was modern, baggage belts that worked, customs that worked too.

Any in those days 5 mins walk from car park to terminal entrance.

SVO was the pits in the terminal, and on the runways and taxiways, to say nothing about the ramp.

The Business route to airside in DME was excellent, facilities excellent too.

Thats wht DME became popular, not withstanding that the airport charges were reasonable.

Then the direct train service opened and passengers could get to the airport reasonably easy, and no taxi rip offs.

Only downside at DME was the Airport hotel..... The only hotel when at breakfast you could not see across the room due to crew smoking. The only consumable that I would touch was the nescafe.... in a BIG tin. I would walk to terminal for a fantastic coffee and danish....

Thats why DME took SVO's business.

[adfly]

Will no longer transfer the daily LCA to LGW, it will remain at LHR and operate 6 weekly as of 28th Oct. (A320)

The planned 4 weekly ATH flights from LGW will now operate Daily (A321)

LHR-ATH reduced to 11 weekly vs 24 weekly last winter (A320/A321)

Aegean Airlines Further Revises Planned London Operation in W12 | Airline Route – Worldwide Airline Route Updates (http://airlineroute.net/2012/08/08/a3-lon-w12/)

[Tagron]

BA and Aeroflot are both authorised to operate 21 services each week between London and Moscow under the current Air Service Agreement. BA have had three flights per day between LHR and DME for several years though not always seven days a week. But since the start of S12 they are using their full allocation with 1 x 747 and 2 x 767 daily.

Temporarily they are also running the two daily ex-BMI A321s.

I agree with the previous posters that SVO is (or was when I was last there) a dump, one of the most depressing airports I operated to, even worse than LAX.. So why is BA proposing to try it again ? I think Aksai Oiler is right, it's partly catchment area and partly connections. But the extra factor may be the Air Service Agreement which I believe is due for re negotiation. Russia recently liberalised its bilaterals with France and Italy and Transaero are expanding aggressively in those markets. BA could be positioning itself for a similar outcome to the UK negotiations.

And why LGW not LHR ? Perhaps they do not want to allocate any more longhaul capacity to what is really a shorthaul route, and using LGW helps differentiate the product. And they could be hoping for a new feed to those LGW leisure routes.

[adfly]

Down on Wiki as WOW Air transferring their STN-KEF service to LGW from 24th September, any substance behind this?

[True Blue]

Lgw flights on their site.

[adfly]

Seems to operate weekly until December when it increases to 2 weekly. Would have thought WOW would have stayed at STN with little competition there (2 weekly Iceland Express) whereas @ LGW they have a daily Iceland Express flight and 2 weekly Icelandair to worry about.

[BAladdy]

BA have once again had to call on Titan Airways to operate some of there services ex LGW. BA are using a Titan Airways 737 (G-POWC) and it's 757 (G-ZAPX) to operate flights to a number of different destinations. The aircraft are planned to operate:

737-300

10AUG - LGW-BOD-LGW-EDI-LGW-BOD-LGW
11AUG - LGW-FCO-LGW-MRS-LGW
12AUG - LGW-MAN-LGW-GLA-LGW-JER-LGW-AMS-LGW
13AUG - LGW-BOD-LGW-MAN-LGW-VCE-LGW
14AUG - LGW-EDI-LGW-GLA-JER-LGW-PSA-LGW
15AUG - LGW-EDI-LGW-GLA-JER-LGW-PSA-LGW
16AUG - LGW-NCE-LGW-RAK-LGW
17AUG - LGW-GLA-LGW-PSA-LGW

The 737 appears to be operating in a one class 130Y config

757

10AUG - LGW-NAP-LGW-AGP-LGW
11AUG - No Flights shown
12AUG - LGW-IBZ-LGW
13AUG - LGW-PFO-LGW-IBZ-LGW
14AUG - LGW-AGP-LGW-BOD-LGW
15AUG - No flights shown
16AUG - LGW-NAP-LGW-AGP-LGW
17AUG - LGW-PFO-LGW-VCE-LGW

The 757 has be configured to offer a 2 class (CE/ET) service

There is the possibility that over the next week that the G-ZAPX may be swapped with G-POWH and the 737 G-POWC with one of the other Titan 737's.

BA will also use a BACF E170 on the LGW-MAN route tomorrow in place of the usual LGW based 737. The 76 seater E170 is showing as operating the following flights:

BA2902 LGW 06:40 MAN 07:40
BA2903 MAN 08:20 LGW 09:25
BA2906 LGW 10:25 MAN 11:25
BA2907 MAN 12:00 LGW 13:05
BA2908 LGW 15:50 MAN 16:50
BA2909 MAN 17:25 LGW 18:25

Does anyone know if this is all down to serviceability problems with the 737 fleet or is it operational problems with crew??

[cornishsimon]

It's aircraft issues not crew issues

[True Blue]

CMB now available on the BA site.

[fokker1000]

Gatwick's main runway 26L was shut for half an hour or so on 18th Aug. Does anyone know why? I know they are digging parts up at night, but not in the day surely!
Any info? Thanks:uhoh:

[Boeingflyer]

I was there..
An aircraft lost the hydrolic on the field. Dont know what type, couldent see from where we was parked.

[lenhamlad]

According to my KLM piloting friend it was due to a small hole discovered on the runway. He was diverted to LHR.

[BOAC]

a small hole discovered on the runway. - I hear ATC are looking into it......................

[Red Comet]

It was a spillage of hydraulic fluid from a Thompson aircraft. Closed for around 25 mins.

[ayroplain]

New at LGW. In Departures at the South Terminal, after you have scanned your boarding pass, had your photo taken and passed through the barriers, you have to hand your boarding pass to the conveyor belt people as well.
Unfortunately, you don't learn about this while you are on the queue waiting your turn. By the time they hear about it some people have already put their passes back in their hand-baggage while queueing and now have to go rummaging in the trays thus slowing down the queue even more.

[davidjohnson6]

Ayro - would it be a major thing for GIP to put up some signs telling passengers to keep their boarding passes to hand ?

[ayroplain]

DJ, LGW doesn't do the simple things very well.
I couldn't understand why this procedure was necessary but a fellow passenger to whom I spoke while waiting to board said that he was told by one of the conveyor people that this new rule was brought in because "someone jumped the barriers". Hard to believe but that's what he was told.

[Skipness One Echo]

This is what they do at T3 MAN as well. Slows everything down, all for the sake of not paying ONE human being to check boarding cards at the correct time.

[sewushr]

I thought it was how they accurately measured the queuing time at security? They were caught out a couple of years back I seem to remember by not telling the full story on queue times (which is one of the measured service quality indicators).

Of course it only works if someone scans your boarding pass at the conveyor, but I've certainly seen that happening recently. They then have the time your boarding pass was scanned at the entrance to the security area, and the time you got to the front of the Q

[bjones4]

This is what they do at T3 MAN as well. Slows everything down, all for the sake of not paying ONE human being to check boarding cards at the correct time.
Flew out of T3 on Tuesday morning and they've changed this, there's now one man at the bottom of the ramp into the security area that checks and scans everyones boarding cards, the staff at the belts don't touch them.

[Haven't a clue]

I encountered the request for sight of boarding cards by the guy on the conveyor for the first time at the weekend. I asked him why they were needed (twice - the second time employing my usual charm and tact) and he told me it was because of people jumping over the barrier in frustration with the scanning/photo taking process.

I've had problems with these machines since they were first installed. There are a couple of gates which won't let me through, telling me to "seek assistance". I've found that moving to an adjacent gate usually (but not always) works. These things it seems don't actually do a biometric scan - it's always a photograph that appears on the screens at the second check down in the pier alongside a big red rectangle containing a message along the lines of "unable to carry out biometric reconciliation - check photo" or some such. Or perhaps they try to scan but fail and revert to the photograph. I must be shifty eyed or something to upset them so often.

They have the same system at LCY (same ownership) but without the biometric scan/photo process because LCY doesn't let inbound and outbound pax mix or allow transfers airside. Personally I'd be happy to avoid the chaos that is the main departure area and be routed to a domestic flight only lounge, and no longer have to endure this process. But only if there was a Pret or similar in it of course...

[pwalhx]

I never felt that scanning the boarding card at the gate slowed things down in Manchester, what does slow things down is 'despite being told regularly' people wait till they get there to slowly remove coats, belts etc.

[WHBM]

This appears to be what Heathrow has been doing for a little while, taking the boarding card again as you approach the security point to measure the queueing time, which is reported in government-required statistics.

I've written before how an ensuing fraud then started at Heathrow (certainly T5) with the operative taking the cards at the security point works progressively back down the queue, taking the cards, scanning them, and giving them back to you increasingly early, when there are still maybe half a dozen people (and maybe some minutes) to go before you can even start putting things on the belt. Furthermore, to get people up to the front of the main queue even earlier, there now is normally a second sub-queue of half-a-dozen or so people waiting for their turn through the scanner.

My hunch is that the "someone jumped the first security point" line is a parrot answer they have been told to give if the precedure is questioned. because otherwise people would start saying that their cards had been timestamped again long before they get to the head of the queue.

The only way to measure this properly is to scan again at the final exit after all the procedures have been completed. That would be the genuine security time. Of course, the officials at the DfT who thought this requiement up would have no clue about how to implement it or give scope for fiddling it.

[davidjohnson6]

WHBM - if you think this is happening, you could always write a letter of complaint to the airport or the CAA and say you are concerned about the *public perception* of fraud occurring and that you believe it important that the process should be transparent and beyond criticism

If written as a formal complaint, it'll probably reach somebody with enough brains to realise that this is a coded warning to change procedures before it eventually makes its way into the press.

[Airlift21]

I traveled through LGW's North Terminal last Saturday afternoon. There was one queue for departures and it took 20 mins to get to the other side. I thought it was only meant to take a few minutes nowadays (or so they keep saying)! Of course everybody had to get their boarding passes out for a second time, so I suppose that's going to take a while.
It must be a nightmare when it's actually busy!!

[ayroplain]

Just to clarify the situation at LGW South in case there is any doubt. The passes were not being scanned again by the conveyor people as a queuing time check. Only a cursory glance was being given at them and then they were handed back.

[Skipness One Echo]

So in order to measure how inconvenienced people are, we inconvenience them further? Genius from the Noddy School of MBA.

[Aero Mad]

Skippy, with all due respect I think you might have misunderstood ayroplain's post. He was simply explaining what had gone on as opposed to proposing a solution.

Unless of course I've misunderstood you, in which case apologies for being a pillock.

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "I never felt that scanning the boarding card at the gate slowed things down in Manchester, what does slow things down is 'despite being told regularly' people wait till they get there to slowly remove coats, belts etc."

That is exactly what slows the process down, and not just at MAN.



Quote: "Personally I'd be happy to avoid the chaos that is the main departure area and be routed to a domestic flight only lounge, and no longer have to endure this process. But only if there was a Pret or similar in it of course..."

Domestic departures were segregated at LHR-1 until recently when they brought in the common departure area (like LHR-5) and photographing domestic pax at security and again at the gate or pier entrance.

The question is: why is this system in use at some airport terminals with common departure areas, such as LHR-1 and LHR-5, but not at others, such as EDI, GLA, MAN-3, etc.?

[True Blue]

Royal Air Maroc seem to be returning next summer with flights to Casablanca. Flights on sale via their web site.

TB