GATWICK

[canberra97]

I can't see Hong Kong Airlines making a return to LGW especially considering Cathay Pacific now fly from HKG to LGW.

[AvGeek1]

Does anyone think that easyJet would ever think about reinstating the LGW-DME flight? Although the situation in Russia hasn't help, even though easyJet ended LGW-DME, loads were still quite full and yield must have been good as fared always seemed quite steep as I had been monitoring them for some time. So I wonder why they stopped the service, were they just predicting that it would go wrong. With the collapse of Transaero as well, a low cost carrier would be welcome in the LON-MOW market.

Also with only two new routes planned for 2017 from LGW (Ljubljana and La Palma), do you think easyJet has some more routes under their sleeve?

[AerRyan]

The Russian market is still contracting, so no I see no room.

[LGWAlan]

And on top of this Aeroflot have also announced and will be shortly starting a SVO-LGW.
So - no - I can't see EZY going back on any of the LGW-Moscow airports, however much the spotters want it.

[adfly]

With all the discussion about Gatwick's long haul flights recently I thought I put together a summary for W16/17, let me know of any corrections etc...

Air Transat

Toronto - 7 weekly 313
Vancouver - 2 weekly 332

British Airways

Antigua - 7 weekly 772
Barbados - 12-14 weekly 772
Bermuda - 5 weekly 772
Cancun - 3 weekly 772
Cape Town (New!) - 3 weekly 772
Grenada - 2 weekly 772 (via UVF)
Kingston - 3 weekly 772
Lima - 2 weekly 772
Male - 3 weekly 772
Mauritius - 3 weekly 772
New York JFK - 7 weekly 772
Orlando - 7 weekly 772
Port of Spain - 5 weekly 772 (via UVF)
Providenciales - 2 weekly 772 (via ANU)
Punta Cana - 2 weekly 772
St Kitts - 2 weekly 772 (via ANU)
St Lucia - 7 weekly 772
San Jose de Costa Rica - 3 weekly 772
Tampa - 6 weekly 772
Tobago - 2 weekly 772 (via ANU)

Cathay Pacific

Hong Kong - 4 weekly 359

Emirates

Dubai - 21 weekly 388

Med-View Airline

Lagos - 4 weekly 763

Norwegian Long Haul

Boston - 4 weekly 789
Fort Lauderdale - 3 weekly 789
Las Vegas (New!) - 2 weekly 789
Los Angeles - 5 weekly 789
New York JFK - 7 weekly 789
Oakland - 3 weekly 789
Orlando - 1 weekly 789
San Juan - 2 weekly 789

Thomas Cook Airlines

Banjul - 2-4 weekly 321
Cancun - 2 weekly 332
Cape Town (New!) - 3 weekly 332
Goa - 1-3 weekly 332
Holguin - 1 weekly 332
Sal - 1 weekly 321

Thomson Airways

Barbados - 1-3 weekly 787
Boa Vista - 3 weekly 752
Cancun - 4 weekly 787
Colombo (New!) - 1 weekly 787
Dubai Al Maktoum - 1 weekly 787
Goa - 1 weekly 787
Liberia - 1 weekly 787
Mauritius - 1 weekly 787
Montego Bay - 3-4 weekly 787
Phuket - 1 weekly 787
Puerto Plata - 1 weekly 787
Puerto Vallarta - 1 weekly 787
Punta Cana - 2 weekly 787
Sal - 4 weekly 752
Varadero - 1 weekly 787

Tianjin Airlines

Chongqing - 2 weekly 332
Tianjin - 2 weekly 332 (via CKG)

Virgin Atlantic Airways

Antigua - 4 weekly 333
Barbados - 7 weekly 333/744 (4/3)
Cancun - 1-2 weekly 744
Grenada - 2 weekly 333 (via UVF)
Havana - 3 weekly 744
Las Vegas - 4-6 weekly 744
Montego Bay - 3 weekly 744
Orlando - 7-11 weekly 744
St Lucia - 5 weekly 333
Tobago - 2 weekly 333 (via UVF)

Westjet

Calgary - 3 weekly 763
Toronto - 7 weekly 763

Summary

Average weekly departures = 220-236
Average daily departures = 31-34

[Trash 'n' Navs]

So only 11 long-haul destinations are daily? Really?

[Skipness One Echo]

You're double counting BA and VS, a fair amount of their flights are double drops.

[Deep and fast]

Easy should be made to relinquish the route licence if they aren't operating it.
Aeroflot to LGW is a bonus, but it flies to SVO which is not so good. VKO or DME would have given a little more flexibility.
I personally think EASY was over stretched this summer and took a view to cut this route in advance as there was better bucks to be had elsewhere as opposed to the route being unviable.

[edi_local]

SVO is the main SU hub is it not? Surely of all the Moscow airports that is the best one for SU to serve from LGW as it allows the bulk of thier network to be accessed for those not just going to Moscow.

A low cost carrier to Russia would be good, but I feel it is better for S7 to take the mantle from Transaero as at least they can offer connections either end, through oneworld. easyJet were a good choice on paper, but is it the right product for Russia? It is a route which even BA, in their race to match easyJet, still offer an enhanced in flight product on and treat it as a full service "medium haul" flight. What other carrier could take the route over from the UK end I don't know.

[goldeneye]

BA are launching FLL, 4 x weekly starting in July.

BA2169 LGW0925 – 1345FLL 777 x135
BA2168 FLL1700 – 0630+1LGW 777 x135

Source (http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/269570/british-airways-adds-gatwick-ft-lauderdale-link-from-july-2017/)

[AerRyan]

Example of where airlines do create markets.

[Deep and fast]

Edi local, VKO is increasingly operated by SU now after the demise of transaero. Where did the transaero slots go at LHR?
Maybe monarch could mop up the route. S7 would be good but it should be a UK carrier tho..

[rutankrd]

Where did the transaero slots go at LHR

Simple back into the BA(IAG) pot - they were leased originally from bmi and after the take over the lease continued to be ring fenced.

[Fairdealfrank]

Code:
Where did the transaero slots go at LHR
Simple back into the BA(IAG) pot - they were leased originally from bmi and after the take over the lease continued to be ring fenced.

Have all the "remedy" slots now gone back to BA?

[wallp]

I see another new BA long haul route has been announced, this time 4 x weekly to Fort Lauderdale. Great news and the BA long haul network keeps growing 👍

[canberra97]

wallp

See post 3260 it has already been posted.

[canberra97]

According to CH.Aviation plus several media sites RWANDAIR intend to start KIGALI to LONDON GATWICK by the end of 2016 or early 2017 after they were given the green light from the regulatory authorities in the UK, RWANDAIR recently took delivery of an Airbus A330-200 and in November will take delivery of an Airbus A330-300 which they intend to use on the London service.

Also it was noted that AIR ZIMBABWE again have intentions to restart flights to the UK this time with Boeing 787 from Harare to London Gatwick in 2017 but seeing their broke I can't see it happening anytime soon although I wish them well as there is a huge demand for non stop flights from the UK to Zimbabwe.

Last year a new flag carrier for Ghana FLY GOLDSTAR AIRLINES also had intentions to fly from Accra to London Gatwick with a Boeing 767 leased from Hi Fly of Portugal but it fell through at the last moment over leasing issues.

I think that over the next couple of years Gatwick will see a few African airlines serving the airport and Air Djibouti have even mentioned London Gatwick as a future destination once they receive an intended Boeing 767-300.

[AirportPlanner1]

An African invasion would be like the mid-90s all over again, when the likes of Air Gabon, Cameroon Airways, Air Zimbabwe and something I can't quite remember with a lion on the tail could be seen. The latter might even have been a 747-SP!

[KelvinD]

Air Zimbabwe and a new B787? What are they going to buy it with? A sackful of their famous 100 Trillion Dollar notes? What a ruin of a country that has turned out to be!

[canberra97]

Airportplanner1

The airline with the lion on the tail was called ALLIANCE with a single Boeing 747 SP that was leased from South African Airlines that also had a major interest in the airline.

Other African airlines previously seen at Gatwick during the 70s, 80s and 90s upto the early part of this century including the ones you mentioned are.

African Safari Airlines (charter)
Air Afrique
Air Algerie
Air Gabon
Air Gambia
Air Malawi
Air Mauritius
Air Namibia
Air Nigeria
Air Seychelles
Air Tanzania
Air Zimbabwe
Cameroon Airlines
Daalo Airlines
Ethiopian Airlines
Ghana International Airways
Nationwide Airlines
Sierra Leonne Airways
TACV
Virgin Nigeria
Uganda Airlines

It would be great to see a wider range of African airlines reappear at Gatwick in the future as obviously slots at Heathrow would be hard to obtain plus too expensive for them.

[vctenderness]

The only way a Zimbabwe 787 would appear at Gatwick would be if Bob buys one from his billions stashed away so his wife can go handbag shopping at Harrods!

[canberra97]

And that's exactly how we might see a Zimbabwe 787 appear if good old Bob splashes out on buying one with his own cash but then again that would open up the fact he has enough money to do so which will never be the case as he openly admits to not having any money stashed in foreign bank accounts. Once he finally dies which is long overdue the country might and a big might at that get back on track again but that will also cost billions but hopefully that will come from his fraudulent cash that he denies having but it will a huge deal trying to give that back to the Zimbabwe population.

[davidjohnson6]

Can we try to talk about Gatwick rather than Zimbabwe please ?

[racedo]

Can we try to talk about Gatwick rather than Zimbabwe please ?


Yeah.
One is full of hangers on, shysters and ner do wells looking to rip you off at every turn and the other is Zimbabwe :E

[True Blue]

Has BA announced Oakland from Lgw starting next March?

[True Blue]

British Airways - GRAPE EXPECTATIONS FOR OAKLAND (http://mediacentre.britishairways.com/pressrelease/details/86/2016-72/7919)

Is there not cities with no service from Lgw they could have tried?

[A350Saltire]

We are in no doubt about who they are gunning for now then...

[nguba]

Announced just a week after FLL...

[True Blue]

They ignored Lgw for years, now that they are scared Norwegian could make a success of Lgw, they are back, like a re-run of Laker. Worst possible side of capitalism.

[True Blue]

Does this mean another 777 for Lgw next summer?

[canberra97]

I think it was already announced that another 777 would be heading to LGW for next summer with more deliverys of 787 at LHR.

It looks as if the new Oakland flight will start at the beginning of the summer 2017 season at the end of March exactly the same time the seasonal winter flights to Cape Town discontinue, with Fort Lauderdale not commencing service untill July 2017 and operating three times a week could we still possibly see another long haul destination added at Gatwick for the other days maybe Havana, Seychelles or even St Vincent (a must visit island btw).

[toledoashley]

The St Vincent route was being talked up when Buccament Bay opened (however there are problems there are the moment). I would say Havana or Seychelles would be more likely.

[vctenderness]

It's actually back to Oakland for BA. Operated in early 1970's with, I think, B707.

[canberra97]

vctenderness

Although obviously owned by BA the previous Oakland flights from LGW to OAK in the early 1970s were operated by KT British Airtours on ABC flights rather than fully scheduled as did BCAL both on B707.

[toledoashley]

It is also interesting that a lot of those LHR routes were leisure routes, freeing up a bit of space for LH at LGW.

[canberra97]

toledoashley

Although I have to agree that either Havana or Seychelles are more likely I think the problems associated with the new Argyle International Airport on St Vincent have been addressed.

What problems are you referring to with the new airport?

[AvGeek1]

I just do not understand BA's logic here. They are facing competition from a carrier that will almost always beat them on price, and BA's product is outdated on the 777 from Gatwick so it's not like they are offering a world class service with this outdated product. Norwegian also have newer aircraft which means their operating costs will be less and there product is in better condition, albeit luxury.

Also, Oakland would have been a better fit for Heathrow as it can offer lots of connections, which would give them an advantage over Norwegian plus they can operate using other newer aircraft like the 787 with a much better product.

BA should be concentrating on unserved markets in their network, like Havana and Seychelles that many have mentioned or should operate routes that will complement their Heathrow services like Bangkok or Miami (unlikely now that FLL has been announced)

I also wondering if BA have any short-haul announcements for S17, they still have gaps in their network that they could operate, like Milan (only operated by easyJet) and Palma (huge leisure route from Gatwick).

All of these routes that have been announced have come as a surprise and I am really pleased, will definitely be using the their Murcia service.

[toledoashley]

Canberra - I can't see St Vincent working if Buccament Bay isn't open/operating. At the moment there are doubts whether it is staying open or not. With out it, is there enough to sustain it?

[toledoashley]

AvGeek1 - I'm wondering if they might try a summer only Jerez or Bastia.

[AvGeek1]

They are both viable but I think there would be stronger destinations they could fill if we are talking bucket and space routes like Gran Canaria, Almería & Palma de Mallorca. I'd like to see some competition on the Milan route also as it's just easyJet and the market is 500,000+ a year.
Maybe even flights to Berlin Tegel as well.

[compton3bravo]

Not sure about Jerez, very close to Seville especially with Seville airport being on the south side of the city so not very far from Jerez. Also the area of the Costa de Luz is not really a UK destination, very, very popular with Germans though. The area is well worth a visit from the Costa del Sol - not to far on a fairly quiet roads especially if you like Sherry!

[canberra97]

toledoashley

Your correct I was under the impression that Argle International Airport at Buccament Bay, St Vincent and Grenadines was already open for business, I had been following the development of the airport over the last few years purely as I have a fondness for the island but wasn't aware of the current troubles and according to Wikipedia the airport won't open till 2018 at the earliest so no hope of any BA anytime soon so we can totally rule out St Vincent out which leaves either Havana or Seychelles or at a push even Banjul.

Seems that Berlin isn't the only airport with problems!

If and when BA or VS did contemplate flights to St Vincent when the new airport actually opens it would probably be a tag on to an existing airport nearby as in St Lucia or Grenada.

St Vincent is a beautiful island with lovely people check out YOUNG ISLAND RESORT it's pure paradise.

[canberra97]

compton3bravo

Not that is worth flying to with Seville being so close BA did previously fly to Jerez de la Frontier during the GB Airways franchise along with nearby Seville.

Although not as popular as other areas in southern Spain the Costa De Luz is becoming more popular with the British with many flying into nearby Faro and crossing the border over into Spain so Jerez could cater for this market.

But I don't see Jerez being added to the BA network maybe as Avgeek mentioned Almeria, Las Palmas, Palma are obviously all candidates as are Berlin and Milan and maybe Ajjacio or Bastia in Corsica.

[INKJET]

BA can certainly make life difficult at LGW for Norwegian, but a lot will depend on if they are able to get enough numbers in the premium and business class seats to subsidise the economy product to rob Norwegian of volume. BA have form in terms of trying to see off other airlines from Laker to Virgin. One thing is for sure there will be some bargain to be had across the pond next year.

[supermarine]

It may be cheap to get to the States but people are going to be shocked at the buying power of the pound, the same in the Eurozone. I foresee interesting times ahead with people foregoing the second and third short breaks and stag dos we have all become accustomed to.

[Skipness One Echo]

but a lot will depend on if they are able to get enough numbers in the premium and business class seats to subsidise the economy product to rob Norwegian of volume.
I wonder how much of LGW is a loss leader to keep elites spending on business out of LHR collecting AVIOS? A lot of what goes out up front at Gatters is redemption based rather than paid.

[nguba]

The IAG mantra is that all businesses have to target its target ROIC to justify investment in new aircraft.

BA at LGW went through a lot of pain to secure new short-haul aircraft and the BA Holidays business has been performing very well.

IAG obviously doesn't want easyJet to grow any further LGW, but it has had other options than BA.

As for LGW-OAK, how much of a loss-leader this is I don't know but I would put money on its launch being driven by decisions taken at IAG rather than BA.

[Wycombe]

new short-haul aircraft

I don't think any of the "new" A320's at LGW were actually new.

[Boeing_James]

The BA route to Oakland appears to be nothing more than a tactic to take on Norwegian.

Surely if BA felt there was a demand for this type of route from Gatwick they would have been better off going 'one-up' and offering a direct Gatwick-SFO route instead of into Oakland? This would also compliment their existing Heathrow service.



It's a shame because there are a lot of long-haul destinations that I'm sure BA could do very well on from Gatwick

[davidjohnson6]

Press reports that Easyjet will open a route between Gatwick and Granada in southern Spain

[toledoashley]

It is interesting that many of these new routes which have popped up at Gatwick are not 'traditional' leisure destinations i.e Beach... Costa Rica, although does have a beach market is more about the wildlife, and Lima is also more adventure... The reintroduction of New York, and the addition of Oakland and Fort Lauderdale as a direct competition to Norwegian.

Those traditional beach routes are being mopped up by Thomson/TUI, even with BA pushing the holidays component hard - so its not just Norwegian they are competing against. TUI are now introducing Sri Lanka (which BA dropped at the Maldives tag), in addition to the new Mauritius route...

[AirportPlanner1]

Granada is a nice place but good luck to EZY getting it to work long-term. FR, ZB and BA have all been and gone in the last ten years or so.

[jdcg]

BA still operate from LCY

[compton3bravo]

With reference to Granada, I would have thought easy would have commenced the service from December to take advantage of the ski season in the Sierra Nevada which is close by. Lovely city Granada but gets very very busy in the summer - Alhambra etc - and gets very hot as well - up to 40C but wish the service well but would not be surprised to see it pulled after one season.

[toledoashley]

Granada is now on sale - as expected - 3x p/w Tu/Th/Sat.

[True Blue]

Air Canada Rouge starting Vancouver 3 weekly from June 17.

[adfly]

Air Canada appear to be swapping 3 of the Toronto flights for Vancouver next summer. As it stands, this is how LGW-Canada is looking next summer:

Air Canada Rouge

Toronto - 4 weekly 763
Vancouver (New!) - 3 weekly 763

Air Transat

Calgary - 3 weekly 332
Montreal - 3 weekly 313
Toronto - 10 weekly 333/332/313 (7x/2x/1x)
Vancouver - 7 weekly 332

Westjet

Calgary - 5 weekly 763
Edmonton - 2 weekly 763
Ottawa - 7 weekly 737 (via St John's)
St John's - 7 weekly 737
Toronto - 7 weekly 763
Vancouver - 6 weekly 763
Winnipeg - 1 weekly 763

[canberra97]

So no more Halifax or St Johns flights then from Air Transat for 2017?

Strange that Halifax will be dropped especially as Westjet are not flying the route.

[Skipness One Echo]

Rouge blinked first on Toronto I see. I suspect that might go back to daily nearer the time....

[adfly]

Tianjin Airlines are increasing the frequency of their Gatwick-Chongqing-Tianjin route to 3 weekly, and also introducing a new Gatwick-Xi'an-Tianjin route, although the frequency of the latter is not get confirmed.

www.businesstraveller.com/news/2016/11/10/tianjin-airlines-to-increase-uk-services/

[Skipness One Echo]

Tunis Air appear to have either moved from LHR or are splitting LHR/LGW as TU790 today is inbound Gatwick.

[c52]

TU790 has been the flight number to London for at least a few years, regardless of the airport.

[DaveReidUK]

Tunis Air appear to have either moved from LHR or are splitting LHR/LGW as TU790 today is inbound Gatwick.

Tomorrow's shows as reverting to LHR on the Heathrow website, then none at all after that, and the only one I can find on the LGW website is today's.

Very strange.

[vectisman]

Did post this elsewhere but no suggestions yet. Anyone on here able to suggest a reason? Thanks.


Just being curious but is there any reason why the Gatwick to Cape Town flights
do not seem to be appearing on the Gatwick arrival and departure boards? Well at least not on the Gatwick website. Several flights have already taken place. They have been clearly visible on flight radar so are operating. BA2064 is en route now due in at Gatwick at 0505 Sat morning(now arrived) but again nothing on the arrivals board. Is this just a glitch? All these flights have appeared on the arrivals/departure boards on the BA site. As I said just curious.

[DaveReidUK]

Tomorrow's shows as reverting to LHR on the Heathrow website, then none at all after that, and the only one I can find on the LGW website is today's.

TAR790/791 now seems to have settled down as TUN/LGW Mondays and Thursdays and TUN/LHR on the other days (doesn't operate on Wednesdays).

Still a bit strange.

[sewushr]

The Tunisair operation to London has been split between Heathrow and Gatwick for more than a year now (possibly as much as two years?) Twice weekly to Gatwick and four weekly to Heathrow

[wallp]

Norwegian don't seem to be letting BA put them off with some significant expansion plans

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/270203/norwegian-proposing-london-gatwick-trans-atlantic-expansion-in-s17/

Interesting departure time for the second JFK flight. Will that be the earliest departure from London by any airline?

[toledoashley]

From what I have heard, the expansion from Gatwick for next summer has been in the pipeline for a while.

That second NYC frequency is interesting, and strikes me as something they could do on the Boston (with a 737MAX) as well when they arrive.

[inOban]

Out and back in a day from LGW. I wonder who wants to leave NY at 12.00 and get into LGW at around midnight.

[EI-A330-300]

Well if Aer Lingus can make it work, DY should have a market for it.

[DaveReidUK]

The Tunisair operation to London has been split between Heathrow and Gatwick for more than a year now (possibly as much as two years?) Twice weekly to Gatwick and four weekly to Heathrow

You're not wrong.

It appears that the Monday flight swapped from LHR to LGW in September 2014 and the Thursday one a couple of months later.

Must pay more attention. :O

[davidjohnson6]

Oban - Ryanair have shown there are plenty of people who will put up with landing at Stansted around 11 pm if the price is low enough... have a look at Easyjet flights arriving into Gatwick or Luton at midnight or even 1 am

[adfly]

Seems to have slipped past people on here but Thomson are launching a weekly Gatwick - Phu Quoc (Vietnam) service next winter and adding an extra bi-weekly service to Phuket, bringing it to 1.5 weekly flights. Good to see the far east destinations are performing well for them.

Looks like 6 based 789's for Norwegian in the summer based on the increases posted.

[adfly]

Notice that the Med-View flights to Lagos have been upgraded to a 744 quite a few times recently. Hopefully this is a sign the route is performing well, and they seem to have some quite favourable reviews on the likes of Tripadvisor etc for a small carrier with a fairly dated fleet.

[True Blue]

CX going daily to HKG from 1st June 2017.

[toledoashley]

Varna is a new route for easyJet next summer.

[crewmeal]

Ryanair have shown there are plenty of people who will put up with landing at Stansted around 11 pm if the price is low enough... have a look at Easyjet flights arriving into Gatwick or Luton at midnight or even 1 am

And then complain bitterly on social media about having to wait for immigration and their bags vowing never to travel with FR or Easy again!

[tubby linton]

EGKK-A4553/16 *** NEW ***
From: 22/12/2016 01:00 UTC
To: 22/12/2016 03:00 UTC
DUE TO LATE NOTICE STAFF SHORTAGES LONDON GATWICK APPROACH WILL BE
CLOSED.DURING THIS PERIOD GATWICK DIRECTOR FREQ 126.825 MHZ WILL NOT
BE MONITORED AND ATC APPROACH SERVICES WILL NOT BE AVAVABLE. AIRCRAFT
WILL NOT BE ABLE TO MAKE AN APPROACH DURING THIS CLOSURE.

[AerRyan]

3 diversions as far as I can see, doesn't look to be any more disruption as far as I can see.

[T250]

NATS are responsible for the approach control to Gatwick (as well as most other major London airports). Nothing to do with the airport themselves.

Maybe more suited to ATC Issues than here :cool:

[True Blue]

Does anyone on here know for sure if Pegasus Airlines will operate Lgw - Istanbul this summer? I have flights booked for May, but after I booked, the flights were taken off sale. They still show times, but no prices. I have contacted Pegasus and they assure me flights will be operating. However, my confidence is weakening as the flights have been off sale now for at least a month and I have read about Pegasus contacting pax only a few days before travel is due to advise flights have been cancelled. I have the additional issue of a connecting flight into Lgw to then travel on Pegasus for 4 of us. We are travelling through to Bodrum via Istanbul.

[jdcg]

I doubt that even Pegasus know.The security situation in Turkey is so volatile at the moment and Pegasus have already reduced capacity. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that continues. Pegasus came fairly late to LGW. They're much more likely to drop LGW than the well established STN, not least as most of the Turks in London live in the North East.

[Skipness One Echo]

Noticed a Virgin B744 departing from the North Terminal today, were passengers bussed from South airside? The planned BA 777 to JFK was on 31 with BA having a desk in Zone A. However Gatwick's decision to be the only aiport I have encountered who thinks FIDS screens landside are superfluous meant BA employed a small Pakistani looking chap to stand with a plastic sign at the railway station entrance holding a laminated sign saying "BA2273 JFK". There was literally nothing eles to help you. Oh Gatters......

They've removed all the landside FIDS screens from North now as well, assuming LGW's once a year travellers don't get too confused by necessary levels of detail......

[davidjohnson6]

Finnair to open a 2x weekly (Thurs + Sun) winter seasonal route to Ivalo in northern Finland beginning 14 December 2017

[BAladdy]

Tianjin Airlines are adding a 2 x weekly service to Xi'an starting 19th June 2017

Tianjin Airlines files Xi?An ? London Gatwick schedule from June 2017 :: Routesonline (http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/270989/tianjin-airlines-files-xian-london-gatwick-schedule-from-june-2017/)

[adfly]

Since there is unlikely to be any major changes between now and March and I have too much time on my hands today, I'll try to summarise LGW's long haul network this summer. As ever, let me know of any changes and corrections.

Air Canada Rouge

Toronto - 4 weekly 763
Vancouver (New!) - 3 weekly 763 (from 08/06)

Air Transat

Calgary - 3 weekly 332
Montreal - 3 weekly 313
Toronto - 7-10 weekly 333/332/313 (7x/2x/1x)
Vancouver - 6-7 weekly 332

British Airways - 13x 772 based

Antigua - 6 weekly 772
Barbados - 7 weekly 772
Bermuda - 7 weekly 772
Cancun - 3 weekly 772
Fort Lauderdale (New!) - 3-4 weekly 772 (from 06/07)
Grenada - 2 weekly 772 (via UVF)
Kingston - 4 weekly 772
Lima - 3 weekly 772
Mauritius - 3 weekly 772
New York JFK - 7 weekly 772
Oakland (New!) - 4 weekly 772 (from 28/03)
Orlando - 13-14 weekly 772
Port of Spain - 5 weekly 772 (via UVF)
Providenciales - 2 weekly 772 (via ANU)
Punta Cana - 3-4 weekly 772
St Kitts - 2 weekly 772 (via ANU)
St Lucia - 7 weekly 772
San Jose de Costa Rica - 2 weekly 772
Tampa - 7 weekly 772
Tobago - 2 weekly 772 (via ANU)

Cathay Pacific

Hong Kong - 7 weekly 359

Emirates

Dubai - 21 weekly 388

Iraqi Airways

Baghdad - 1 weekly 738
Sulaymaniyah - 1 weekly 738

Med-View Airline

Lagos - 4 weekly 763/744

Norwegian Long Haul - 5x 789 based

Boston - 4 weekly 789
Fort Lauderdale - 2 weekly 789
Los Angeles - 7 weekly 789
New York JFK - 13 weekly 789
Oakland - 5 weekly 789
Orlando - 3 weekly 789

Thomas Cook Airlines - 1x 332 based

Cancun - 2 weekly 332
Orlando - 3 weekly 332
Sal - 1 weekly 321

Thomson Airways - 2x 788, 1x789 based

Aruba - 1 weekly 788
Boa Vista - 3 weekly 752
Cancun - 6 weekly 788/789
Liberia - 1 weekly 788
Mauritius - 1 weekly 788
Montego Bay - 3 weekly 788
Orlando Sanford - 2 weekly 789
Puerto Plata - 1 weekly 788
Puerto Vallarta - 1 weekly 789
Punta Cana - 3 weekly 788/789
Sal - 2 weekly 752
St Lucia (New!) - 1 weekly 788 (from 04/05)
Varadero - 1 weekly 788

Tianjin Airlines

Chongqing - 2 weekly 332
Tianjin - 4 weekly 332 (via CKG/XIY)
Xi'an (New!) - 2 weekly 332 (from 20/06)

Virgin Atlantic Airways 5x 744, 2x 333 based (have used google flights and press releases as the new website is painful to use)

Antigua - 3 weekly 333
Barbados - 7-9 weekly 333
Cancun - 3 weekly 744
Grenada - 2 weekly 333 (via UVF)
Havana - 2 weekly 744
Las Vegas - 7-9 weekly 744
Montego Bay - 3 weekly 744
Orlando - 12-17 weekly 744
St Lucia - 4 weekly 333 (1 via ANU)
Tobago - 1 weekly 333 (via UVF)
Varadero (New!) 1 weekly 744 (from 02/04)

Westjet

Calgary - 5-6 weekly 763
Edmonton - 2 weekly 763 (only an 8 week season)
St John's - 7 weekly 737
Toronto - 7 weekly 763
Vancouver - 6-7 weekly 763
Winnipeg - 1 weekly 763 (only an 8 week season)

Average weekly departures = 280-289 Some of the increases are outside of the peak season, i.e. VS flying 9 weekly to BGI and LAS in April/May, I have tried to account for this in my averages although its by no means exact.
Average daily departures = 40-41

I count 45 destinations.

Unsurprisingly, Orlando is the most frequent, with up to 37 weekly departures (39 including Sanford), followed by Dubai and Toronto at 21 weekly each, and New York with 20 weekly flights then Vancouver with up to 18.

[vectisman]

Adfly.
I believe 13 777s will be based by British Airways for the Gatwick operation next summer.

[adfly]

Thanks vectisman, BA really have added 777's to LGW at quite a rate recently!

[Skipness One Echo]

Arrived on VS028 Tue morning, last day of Virgin in South Terminal after 32 years! Oddly enough they've already flown a proving flight from North with G-VROM last week. Going to be so odd to see BA on Pier 2 and 3 next to Norwegian.
Real winner is easyJet who get what is surely the best terminal on their whole network, albeit one with airbridges. Glass barriers going up to create gate rooms last week so going to be less open and airy going forward. Good to see LGW growing again now they can concentrate on their strenghts as a decent p2p airport rather than fantasies about hubs that no airline ever asked for.
Just a shame BA continue to have the poorest of their hard product at Gatters. Show them some love please? There's nothing left to cut! Second meal on BA long haul is now a two finger KitKat in Y. As I said, changed days.....

[davidjohnson6]

Skipness - I'm not so sure Easyjet came off best in the terminal move. South still has the train station... counts for a lot when the train from Victoria to Gatters is delayed and the security barriers have a conformance policy to discourage runners who only have hand luggage

[canberra97]

Well it's officially change over day today for BA and VS along with Easyjet, does anyone have any information regarding to days move and how it is going.

[toledoashley]

The BA lounge hasnt opened in time. First/Gold can use the No1 lounge and Club/Silver are at the 'BA Speedbird Lounge', which is the old Virgin Clubhouse.

[canberra97]

There some excellent picture of the new British Airways South Terminal check in area on Flyertalk plus pictures of the former Virgin Clubhouse renamed the Speedbird Lounge which is the temporary Club/Silver lounge with First/Gold directed to use the No1 Lounge.

By all accounts the delay to the opening of the new BA lounges was down to an electrical sign off even though everything is ready to go health & saftey were not ready to have it signed off in time.

Be great to see a line up of BA tails along either side of Pier 2 although for BA moving to the South Terminal I will miss that nice view of the airport as you walk over the bridge.

[22/04]

Some pictures of the new VS lounge and a few of the V-Room next door here

V-Flyer View topic - Gatwick North: we have lift-off! (http://v-flyer.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=294878)

[7Three7Specialist]

As a LGW worker, I see Easyjet at North such a monumental waste considering how large the stands are. Perfect for all wide-body aircraft. And EZY hardly use all the jet bridges!

Oh well, look forward to trying to work around South with even less room now.

[canberra97]

There was obviously a lot of work done in both North and South Terminal check in areas overnight or was there work in progress whilst the BA and VS check in areas were operating as normal, that's includes all the signage.

But I have to admit I like the look of the new BA check in area in the South Terminal.

[Skipness One Echo]

Stands on pier 5 were split to take two narrow bodies or one wide body. That's why 56-63 were renumbered 555-574.

[heneghan_j]

Seen links on LinkedIn and online earlier today regarding the sudden resumption of Air Asia's operation at Gatwick. Apparently their delivery of A330Neos was delayed from 2018 to 2019

https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/malaysias-airasia-x-plans-to-lease-two-used-777-300ers-for-london-gatwick-summer-2017-relaunch-324647

[True Blue]

Are Norwegian dropping Rome and Warsaw from the end of W17?

[adfly]

It seems odd to me that the low cost airline Air Asia X are going to be operating everybody's favourite sardine can widebody in a comfy 9 abreast configuration when that vast majority of legacy carriers are now 10 abreast. Surely this is a case of deja vu with them flying 8 abreast A340's on the route previously, the lack of commonality with the rest of the fleet combined with the large number of seats that need to be filled surely can't all be made up for by the superior CASM when comparing to the A340's? (IMHO)

It will be good to see them back in Europe, although I remain cynical an A330-900 could fly KUL-LGW with a full load even in a less dense configuration that what they currently use. I suspect BKK-LGW would be more realistic range wise. Will be interesting to see what happens anyhow.

[True Blue]

Air Asia granted traffic rights

http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/52958-airasia-x-granted-london-gatwick-rights-to-use-b777s

[True Blue]

What are the chances of this new SAS London base being at Gatwick

[Flightrider]

None. The SAS thing is about reducing costs on existing flying. They have three nightstops at LHR (ARN, CPH and OSL) and so it would seem as though these - together with some other services through the day to make crew patterns work - will be crewed from a lower-cost London base than using Scandinavian crew nightstopping LHR.

[AvGeek1]

Gatwick-New York route carried 330,573 in 2016 with both DY & BA operating. DY increasing from 7 to 13 weekly flights in August 2017, so approxiametely an extra 60,000 seats available in the latter part of 2017. Route is doing well according to numbers, we don't know about yield though.

[True Blue]

Pegasus has cancelled their flight to Istanbul, it ends middle of this month.

[Locker10a]

Whats going on with Gatwick today? Several flight waited for 30 mins today AFTER landing for an available gate, has gate assignments/availability been an issue since the terminal moves ?

[Buster the Bear]

I bet some of the delays relate to airframe de-icing?

[davidjohnson6]

Air Arabia Maroc to open a new route to Fez from June, operating Wed+Sat

[BAladdy]

Well it's officially change over day today for BA and VS along with Easyjet, does anyone have any information regarding to days move and how it is going
Just over a month since the terminal shuffle. Does anyone know if BA,VS or EZY have had any major operational problems since the move?. I suppose the first real test will be the Easter holidays and the Summer.

[canberra97]

I should imagine by now it's all operating just fine as I haven't heard of any issues or problems since the move except for the initial delay in opening the BA First lounge and by the time Easter arrives and definitely Summer the operations by all airlines concerned in their respective terminals will be as normal, so I don't envisage any problems.

[True Blue]

Georgian Airways to Tbilisi now on sale from May, 2 per week.

[davidjohnson6]

What's the change that has led to Wizz opening a route to Kutaisi from Luton, along with Georgian to Tbilisi ? Has there been some change in visa rules or is it something else ?

[T250]

Might be worth asking in the Luton forum, this is Gatwick!

[INKJET]

BA and South terminal on 26 departures is a pain, monitor 124.225 ' birdseed 234 are you ready for departure' Negative still waiting for ACARS load sheet' they are not geared up for 2 minute taxi times...will be a big problem come summer

[Skipness One Echo]

There won't be two minute taxi times come summer :)
Same issue at T5 when going off 09R but there's usually a queue.

[Severn]

Norwegian to reorient Gatwick operations towards longhaul
Taken for ch-aviation.com:

Norwegian is planning to scale back its short-haul operations out of London Gatwick in favour of longhaul routes airline spokesman Lasse Sandaker-Nielsen has told Bloomberg news.

In an interview, Sandaker-Nielsen said overcapacity in the European market coupled with a growing scarcity of Gatwick slots meant Norwegian would gradually reorient its operations towards the more profitable longhaul market. The transition, he said, could occur as early as this winter season (2017/18).

The shift will also follow the commencement of a feeder agreement with rival Ryanair (FR, Dublin Int'l) wherein the Irish LCC will provide Norwegian with regional European passenger traffic for long-haul flights out of Gatwick later this summer.

According to the ch-aviation route database, the LCC currently uses its Norwegian (DY, Oslo Gardermoen) unit to connect the London gateway with fourteen destinations of which six are in Scandinavia with the remainder in the United States and Puerto Rico. Its Norwegian Air International (D8, Dublin Int'l) and Norwegian UK (DI, London Gatwick) units are, on the other hand, used to operate flights to thirty-eight destinations around Europe.

[EI-BUD]

This Norwegian development is a logical step. However, given the small scale of FR at LGW and the enormity of EZY at that airport, it is surprising that the headline is not linkage to EZY rather than FR....

A wider relationship would appear to be emerging between FR and DY/D8....

[Skipness One Echo]

Is this talk of Ryanair feeding DY all coming from the Norwegian end? MOL is unusually quiet on this...

[Buster the Bear]

Georgia visa free access coming this year into the EU.

European Parliament Approves Visa-Free Schengen Travel For Georgia (http://www.rferl.org/a/georgia-european-parliament-approves-visa-liberalization/28275007.html)

[davidjohnson6]

There were a few posts about a week ago about Norwegian refocussing their Gatwick operation away from short haul towards long haul. It looks like the short haul routes at Gatwick being de-emphasised are as follows:
(apologies if this is a repost or if I've missed anything)

Alesund, Almeria, Nice, Pula - summer seasonal routes that will not be resumed in summer 2017
Rovaniemi, Tromso - will not operate in summer 2017 but will resume in late October 2017
Berlin, Rome, Warsaw - terminate in late March 2017

[canberra97]

China Airlines to start Taipei to London Gatwick Airport on 01 December 2017 with AIRBUS A359 aircraft.

Good coup for LGW as slots were unavailable at LHR, the Far East network from the airport is really growing now.

Cathay Pacific
Hong Kong

China Airlines
Taipei (begins 01 December 2017)

Tianjin Airlines
Chongqing, Tainjin, Xi'an (begins 20 June 2017),

And recently announced but uncomfirmed return of

Air Asia X
Kuala Lumper

I wonder if the next airline from the region could be SCOOT.

[Skipness One Echo]

Good coup for LGW as slots were unavailable at LHR, the Far East network from the airport is really growing now.
They'll be back at LHR just as soon as they can, borrowed KLM slots last time I think?
Don't Tianjin already serve TSN-CKG-LGW? Is Xian an add on or another rotation?

[Fairdealfrank]

China Airlines to start Taipei to London Gatwick Airport on 01 December 2017 with AIRBUS A359 aircraft.

Good coup for LGW as slots were unavailable at LHR, the Far East network from the airport is really growing now.

Cathay Pacific
Hong Kong

China Airlines
Taipei (begins 01 December 2017)

Tianjin Airlines
Chongqing, Tainjin, Xi'an (begins 20 June 2017),

And recently announced but uncomfirmed return of

Air Asia X
Kuala Lumper

I wonder if the next airline from the region could be SCOOT.

Yes, doubtless some of these carriers are in the LGW "waiting room".

[adfly]

Don't understand why such a point is made of the 'waiting room' every time a new flag carrier starts at LGW. There is plenty of truth to it of course but the rather repetitive posts on it every time there is an announcement do get a little tiresome!

[davidjohnson6]

adfly - it is a bit repetitive but until it gets repeated some fanboy invariably claims that a new long haul dawn has suddenly begun at Gatwick. By reminding everyone of the waiting room theme, it possibly avoids people getting too excited.
Don't read me wrong - I think Gatwick is actually really rather a good airport and despite living near Hertfordshire, typically pass through Gatwick 20+ times per year, I just don't see Gatwick getting much more than Heathrow's long haul metaphorical crumbs for the next few years.

[inOban]

I may be showing my ignorance here, but has congestion at LGW reached the stage where slots at peak times are being bought and sold as at LHR?

[canberra97]

Skip

It was announced a few months ago that Xi'an will be a new destination with Tianjin Airlines from LGW and will be an odd on to the two extra Tianjin flights commencing on 20 June 2017, the existing flights via Chongqin will remain as they are.

[Flitefone]

I may be showing my ignorance here, but has congestion at LGW reached the stage where slots at peak times are being bought and sold as at LHR?

Yes. But nothing like on the scale at LHR.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/10075367/Flybe-sells-Gatwick-slots-to-easyJet-for-20m.html

FF

[BAladdy]

Vueling are joining BA and IBEX in the South Terminal from 26th March

[True Blue]

Rwandair now seems to be bookable to Kigali, 4 a week from end of May. Evening departure from Lgw. I have seen it on several on-line sites, but not yet on their own.

[strawberry Ribena]

Speaking to a GAL duty manager, Air India are looking at lgw. Huge population in Crawley, makes sense I guess.

[racedo]

Speaking to a GAL duty manager, Air India are looking at lgw. Huge population in Crawley, makes sense I guess.

http://www.crawley.gov.uk/pw/web/pub193637

Not based on 2011 census........................

[canberra97]

It had been mentioned late last year on another forum that Air India were considering LGW but I wouldn't put that purely down to the fairly small Indian diaspora living in and around Crawley you have to look at the wider picture as to why they may be reconsidering a return to LGW where they operated from in 1982/3 to Delhi.

[T250]

Are there any plans for Wizz to expand? There definitely is a big Eastern European population in the area, a big number work at LGW itself!

Most of these pax have to travel to Luton (Wizz) or Stansted (Ryanair) to pick up the routes.

[AvGeek1]

Are there any plans for Wizz to expand? There definitely is a big Eastern European population in the area, a big number work at LGW itself!

Most of these pax have to travel to Luton (Wizz) or Stansted (Ryanair) to pick up the routes.

I think Warsaw could be a potential with Norwegian ending the route and it being one of their largest bases, plus easyJet does not serve the route (compared to easyJet serving Budapest, Sofia etc.)

[canberra97]

There is a 'big Eastern European population in the area', this is the United Kingdom there is a 'big Eastern European population' everywhere!!!

[vctenderness]

Heard a loud aircraft above me this evening checked on Fligh Radar and it was a BA 777 ex LGW heading for CPT.

Why were BA operating Capetown out of Gatwick?

[sinbad73]

BA launched that route in November 2016.

https://www.businesstraveller.com/news/2016/03/24/ba-to-launch-gatwick-cape-town-flights/

[vctenderness]

Thank you I missed that.

[T250]

There is a 'big Eastern European population in the area', this is the United Kingdom there is a 'big Eastern European population' everywhere!!!

Is this some kind of problem? :rolleyes::cool: no need for hardcore Brexiter views :=

[canberra97]

It has absolutely nothing to do with Brexit my views or not as it's a fact!

[Fairdealfrank]

Speaking to a GAL duty manager, Air India are looking at lgw. Huge population in Crawley, makes sense I guess.

Even if all of Crawley consisted of the so-called "Indian diaspora", it wouldn't be anything like enough to justify a route. It would have to cover a much wider area.

No, it's probably more to do with the fact that AI sold some of its LHR slots and now can't afford to buy them back.

[davidjohnson6]

http://www.bangaloreaviation.com/2011/11/air-india-selling-london-heathrow-slot.html

[adfly]

https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/LGW-S17-Start-of-Season.pdf

Some interesting info on here, obviously not everything that is applied for sees the light of day but it is still worth a look. Listed a few highlights:

-Overall capacity up 0.9% compared to the start of last summer
-China Eastern - Starting a 2 weekly Xi'an/Shanghai route from June (to compete with Tianjin?)
-Norwegian - Apparently due to start Tokyo Narita/Handena (Presumably one of the two) and Singapore.
-Rwandair - 4 weekly service to Entebbe and Kigali

[Fairdealfrank]

http://www.bangaloreaviation.com/201...hrow-slot.html (http://www.bangaloreaviation.com/2011/11/air-india-selling-london-heathrow-slot.html)



Was it that long ago, 2011, how time flies...............it's called selling the family silver. Leasing it may have been better.

[osuldavid]

hey,

Swissport are back at LGW, right?

Im looking to contact someone to get a job reference from a couple of years ago.

There is nothing online that i can find.

Help?

regards,
DOS

[T250]

:ugh: contact Swissport head office? Swissport has still been operational in the UK, I'm sure their HR department still exists. :cool:

[racedo]

Are there any plans for Wizz to expand? There definitely is a big Eastern European population in the area, a big number work at LGW itself!

Most of these pax have to travel to Luton (Wizz) or Stansted (Ryanair) to pick up the routes.

Wizzair do have a daily flight to Bucharest from Gatwick and previously had flights to Poland from there.

As Krakow is the only place served from Gatwick post Norwegian then clearly there is an opportunity there.

Possibly FR may move one of the Krakow flights but unlikely, more likely is to serve Warsaw Modlin.

[BAladdy]

DY will begin 2 x weekly service to DEN and 4 x weekly service to SEA from mid September.

Denver - Begins 16SEP17

DY7171 LGW 09:50 - DEN 12:40 789 26
DY7172 DEN 14:40 - LGW 16:40 789 26

Seattle - Begins 16SEP17

DY7131 LGW 09:50 - SEA 11:45 789 x246
DY7132 SEA 13:45 - LGW 07:05 789 x246

Norwegian launches Denver / Seattle service from Sep 2017 :: Routesonline (http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/272225/norwegian-launches-denver-seattle-service-from-sep-2017/)

[Peter47]

What effect do you think that DY's new routes to SEA & DEN will have on BA and in the case of the former VS/DL? Will it stimulate traffic or be diverted from existing carriers? Operating out of LHR and high proportion of transfer traffic must give BA an advantage but it could make things harder for VS on the SEA route. Interesting that DY start the routes after the summer peak which seems the wrong time of year.

Its interesting that most of DY's new routes have either been on very thick routes not served from LGW (NYC, LAX, etc) where the Gatwick catchment area in itself is significant or else leisure routes, which tend to have lower barriers to entry. My view is that they might be better looking to regional airports which are still underserved by legacy carriers. I know that VS operates to LAX/SFO from MAN but I would have thought that they would be better going for more routes like that.

What do others think?

[Serenity]

Seattle is direct competition to Virgins recent announcement of starting the same route!!

[_aax1]

I always thought Norwegian should go for non served UK-US routes as well as the thick routes. I said London-New Orleans was screaming to be served, then BA picked it up.

London-Nashville or London-San Antonio could work on the 787.

When they get some A321LR based at Gatwick maybe the likes of

Columbus or Cleveland
Indianapolis
Milwaukee
Pittsburgh
St. Louis

Could work.

[Wycombe]

....a good few of those served from LGW before, of course.

[vctenderness]

Starting Denver for Winter 2017 is good thinking with the ski market. Seattle is also a good winter destination.

[toledoashley]

It leaves just two or three major markets unserved by Norwegian - Washington, Chicago and Houston. I too wouldn't be surprised if we saw a Nashville/St Louis/Columbus type destination served as well - maybe even Manchester for the ski season on a 73MAX.

[VickersVicount]

DEN can be a fairly big international conference venue also

[canberra97]

....a good few of those served from LGW before, of course.

Of course they were, at one point LGW offered more destinations to the USA than LHR did.

Of those routes mentioned by user _aax1 they were previously served from LGW by,

Cleveland (Continental)
Nashville (American)
New Orleans (British Airways)
Pittsburgh (British Airways, US Airways)
St. Louis (British Caledonian, TWA Trans World Airlines)

[vctenderness]

BA also operated Charlotte with USAir and by themselves.

[canberra97]

BA also operated Charlotte with USAir and by themselves.

I was just picking up on the routes mentioned by user _aax1.

I don't think we were listing all the previous USA flights from LGW let alone previous BA/US co-operated flights.

If I can remember correctly.

During the early to mid 1990s and in cooperation with USAir BA operated to the following destinations (Charlotte, Baltimore and Pittsburgh) and then once that agreement had ended BA operated these routes with their own aircraft and USAir then opened Philadelphia whilst retaining their presence on the Charlotte and Pittsburgh routes with their own aircraft, the latter was dropped by USAir after three years with BA remaining on the route until it was later moved to LHR.

[wallp]

Great to see a bigger range of US destinations available again from LGW, a bit light the old days.

Hopefully more will follow

[Seljuk22]

Seems like BA won't operate LGW-LIM next winter
British Airways removes Lima NW17 schedule :: Routesonline (http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/272269/british-airways-removes-lima-nw17-schedule/)

What is the remaining capacity at LGW relating to slots and terminal capacity? Nice to talk about possible new routes but at some point it will be difficult for airlines to find suitable slots.

[Flitefone]

Seems like BA won't operate LGW-LIM next winter
British Airways removes Lima NW17 schedule :: Routesonline (http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/272269/british-airways-removes-lima-nw17-schedule/)

What is the remaining capacity at LGW relating to slots and terminal capacity? Nice to talk about possible new routes but at some point it will be difficult for airlines to find suitable slots.


LGW is very tight in Summer:

https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/LGW-S17-Capacity-Declaration.pdf

[canberra97]

Great to see a bigger range of US destinations available again from LGW, a bit light the old days.

Hopefully more will follow

Yes it sure is great, now we have

Boston-Norwegian
Denver-Norwegian
Ft Lauderdale-British Airways, Norwegian
Las Vegas-Virgin Atlantic
Los Angeles-Norwegian
New York JFK-British Airways, Norwegian
Oakland-British Airways, Norwegian
Orlando-British Airways, Norwegian, Virgin Atlantic
Seattle-Norwegian
Tampa-British Airways

[AvGeek1]

I was looking at some 2007 statistics today and I was really surprised to see the top US routes including Atlanta (390k), Dallas (400k) and Houston (460k)! How times have changed!

[BHX5DME]

Gatwick smashes global record of 44 million annual passengers, with long haul services driving huge growth


10/04/2017


Gatwick achieves 49 consecutive months of growth with busiest ever March, up 8.4%
North American routes drive long haul traffic with cargo volumes also up 34%
‘Gatwick is booming’ Stewart Wingate, Gatwick CEO

Gatwick passed the 44 million passengers a year mark for the first time this weekend (Saturday) – a world record for a single runway airport – and also announced that it has secured 49 consecutive months of growth.
Driven by growth in long haul routes, the airport has reported its busiest ever March, with over 3.3 million passengers passing through - up 8.4% on the same month in 2016.
With new routes to Denver and Seattle just announced, long haul traffic to North America grew particularly strongly, up 37% in March, with services to LA, Boston and Toronto growing most.
Cape Town, Hong Kong and Costa Rica were top long haul destinations to other parts of the world and contributed to a 34% growth in the volume cargo compared to the same month in 2016.
Stewart Wingate, Gatwick CEO, said:
“Gatwick is booming. We have just hit 44 million passengers a year – a world record for a single runway airport – and a mark that some predicted we would not hit until 2035, in 18 years’ time!”
“Our passengers continue to show confidence in foreign travel, particularly to the growing number of long haul destinations that Gatwick now serves. We launched 20 new long haul routes last year alone and even more will start this summer, including to Seattle, Denver and Xi’an – our third destination in China – with our Hong Kong service also going daily.
“This long haul growth is also driving up the amount of cargo flown out from Gatwick. We’ve seen a 34% increase in cargo this month alone, which is important as the UK readjusts and focusses attention on global destinations further afield.
“At this crucial time for the country and the economy, Gatwick continues to stand ready and offers the UK Government a credible and deliverable option for runway expansion.”
Year-end round up (April 2016 to March 2017):


Air traffic movements: 283,094 +4%
Passengers: 43,969,000 + 8%
Cargo: 81,138 +16%

Year ahead:


New long haul routes to Denver, Seattle, Fort Lauderdale and Vancouver in North America
New service direct to Xi’an, China, and also a daily service to Hong Kong
Hitting 45 million passengers a year - another world record – with bigger, quieter planes and a strengthened short-haul network

[canberra97]

I was looking at some 2007 statistics today and I was really surprised to see the top US routes including Atlanta (390k), Dallas (400k) and Houston (460k)! How times have changed!

You have to remember that in 2007 those three routes were only flown from LGW at the time and not LHR due to Bermuda 2 which was relinquished a year later.

In 2007

Atlanta was up to three times daily at one point by DL and daily by BA.
Dallas twice daily by AA and once daily by BA.
Houston twice daily by CO and daily from BA.

[canberra97]

Gatwick smashes global record of 44 million annual passengers, with long haul services driving huge growth


10/04/2017


Gatwick achieves 49 consecutive months of growth with busiest ever March, up 8.4%
North American routes drive long haul traffic with cargo volumes also up 34%
‘Gatwick is booming’ Stewart Wingate, Gatwick CEO

Gatwick passed the 44 million passengers a year mark for the first time this weekend (Saturday) – a world record for a single runway airport – and also announced that it has secured 49 consecutive months of growth.
Driven by growth in long haul routes, the airport has reported its busiest ever March, with over 3.3 million passengers passing through - up 8.4% on the same month in 2016.
With new routes to Denver and Seattle just announced, long haul traffic to North America grew particularly strongly, up 37% in March, with services to LA, Boston and Toronto growing most.
Cape Town, Hong Kong and Costa Rica were top long haul destinations to other parts of the world and contributed to a 34% growth in the volume cargo compared to the same month in 2016.
Stewart Wingate, Gatwick CEO, said:
“Gatwick is booming. We have just hit 44 million passengers a year – a world record for a single runway airport – and a mark that some predicted we would not hit until 2035, in 18 years’ time!”
“Our passengers continue to show confidence in foreign travel, particularly to the growing number of long haul destinations that Gatwick now serves. We launched 20 new long haul routes last year alone and even more will start this summer, including to Seattle, Denver and Xi’an – our third destination in China – with our Hong Kong service also going daily.[/I


[I]New long haul routes to Denver, Seattle, Fort Lauderdale and Vancouver in North America
New service direct to Xi’an, China, and also a daily service to Hong Kong
Hitting 45 million passengers a year - another world record – with bigger, quieter planes and a strengthened short-haul network





Strange that the press release lists the recently announced Norwegian flights to Denver and Seattle but omits any reference to China airlines commencing flights to Taipei along with Rwandair to Kigali .

[bcn_boy]

It's time to add a second runway and forget about the expensive Heathrow

[Skipness One Echo]

It's time to add a second runway and forget about the expensive Heathrow
By all means add a second runway at Gatters but understand that LGW's growth is driven by easyJet and Norwegian, both loco leisure. LHR serves a slightly different market in connecting UK business to the world, something Crawley Intl has never succesfully managed to come close to in the same way. BA are also a leisure holiday airline at Gatwick, very different business model than LHR.

[cornishsimon]

Lets be honest here LHR and LGW both need an extra runway




cs

[Vokes55]

but understand that LGW's growth is driven by easyJet and Norwegian, both loco leisure. LHR serves a slightly different market in connecting UK business to the world

Of course, we all know that a 3-times weekly service from Heathrow to a secondary city in China is going to contribute far more to the economy than an extra 15-20 aircraft that easyJet and Norwegian could base at LGW with an extra runway :rolleyes:

And if you think easyJet only serve the "loco leisure" market, you're a little behind the times.

[A320.b744]

Of course, we all know that a 3-times weekly service from Heathrow to a secondary city in China is going to contribute far more to the economy than an extra 15-20 aircraft that easyJet and Norwegian could base at LGW with an extra runway :rolleyes:

And if you think easyJet only serve the "loco leisure" market, you're a little behind the times.

In all fairness, easyJet still primarily serve the leisure market. Just look at their destination list - the vast majority are bucket and spade routes. Yes there has been a pivot towards serving the business market, but there's still a severe lack of business destinations served by easyJet - where's Bucharest, Frankfurt, Helsinki, Hannover, Oslo, Stockholm, Warsaw? And of those cities, three key business destinations (Frankfurt, Hannover and Warsaw) aren't served at all from Gatwick.

Heathrow expansion will allow the UK to be connected to new cities across the globe. If Gatwick was expanded, yes you may get an extra 15-20 easyJet and Norwegian aircraft, but they'll serve the same old destinations that already have London connections. The UK economy needs new flights to South America and Asia that will attract inbound investment, not more flights to Alicante that predominantly benefit the Spanish economy.

[Skipness One Echo]

Of course, we all know that a 3-times weekly service from Heathrow to a secondary city in China is going to contribute far more to the economy than an extra 15-20 aircraft that easyJet and Norwegian could base at LGW with an extra runway

You do know that when LHR gets the third runway easyJet will be shifting a load of Gatwick capacity round the M25 to take advantage of the fact? The reason Your London Airport Gatwick fought so very hard against LHR expansion was to prevent losing traction with EZY? You knew that, right?
easyJet are a leisure airline who serve business routes and traffic just like Ryanair, but not a business focus like a legacy. Mind you they're the same as BA short haul so enough said....

[bcn_boy]

You all seem to have bought into the lhr propaganda that they are the sole airport for business. Expanding lgw will provide the competition the uk needs to keep airlines prices down. EasyJet will not be able to offer the same low fares from lhr as it will along with other airlines, have to foot the bill for that extra lhr runway along with the taxpayer. The bill is a lot lower for expanding lgw and no cost to the taxpayer.

[j636]

You all seem to have bought into the lhr propaganda that they are the sole airport for business. Expanding lgw will provide the competition the uk needs to keep airlines prices down. EasyJet will not be able to offer the same low fares from lhr as it will along with other airlines, have to foot the bill for that extra lhr runway along with the taxpayer. The bill is a lot lower for expanding lgw and no cost to the taxpayer.

Easyjet want want to charge low fares at LHR, they will be looking to high yielding passengers. Just like DY and FR will.

[Vokes55]

The UK economy needs new flights to South America and Asia that will attract inbound investment, not more flights to Alicante that predominantly benefit the Spanish economy.

You mean like Chengdu? Or Lima?

Even if we are going to go down the line of easyJet being solely 'loco leisure', the tourist receipts from additional links by easyJet and other low cost carriers are going to provide far more income to the economy than a 3-weekly flight to China - which generally serves as a link home for Chinese tourists in the UK, aside from anything else.

Any major business links will exist regardless of slot constraints. If low cost carriers can base an additional 30-40 aircraft (or 100 if you want to believe Norwegian's CEO - I personally don't) in Gatwick, and flood the market with cheap seats, there will be an enormous benefit to the economy. Tourism accounts for 10% of UK GDP, and is one industry that cannot be conducted over a conference call.

[Skipness One Echo]

You all seem to have bought into the lhr propaganda that they are the sole airport for business. Expanding lgw will provide the competition the uk needs to keep airlines prices down. EasyJet will not be able to offer the same low fares from lhr as it will along with other airlines, have to foot the bill for that extra lhr runway along with the taxpayer. The bill is a lot lower for expanding lgw and no cost to the taxpayer.
I support expanding Gatwick, why are you conflating this with my support for expansion at LHR? Most traffic at LHR is leisure, however yields are higher as is the proportion of business travel. No credible person is suggesting LGW does not have a good % of business travellers, what LGW does not have is many options for them to access global markets. They have TK and EK but lost QR and EY. They have Air Transat, Westjet and Rouge but no Air Canada mainline, most noticeably for an airport of it's size, no KLM, Lufthansa (they keep trying and failing), no Air France. Virgin have their leisure focussed routes at Gatters and their business friendly higher yield at LHR. BA almost has a different business model at LGW, long haul remains leisure focused, something that LGW is brilliant at. So I agree, expand Gatwick, but do so on it's own merits as above and not like GIP tried to do, pretending it would in any way become like LHR if LHR was constrained. That's simply not backed up by the behaviour of the market.

The bill is a lot lower for expanding lgw and no cost to the taxpayer.
Network Rail might disagree....
The bill is a lot lower but the cost benefit analysis favours LHR, the airport the airlines want to fly from. If Gatwick was the new Heathrow, Qatar, Etihad and the US carriers would be all over it, instead it's Norwegian, the successor to Laker, and there's nothing wrong with that.

[bcn_boy]

Simply expand Gatwick and let that solve the problem in the south east. No need for an extra runway at Heathrow. Why have flights to Murcia, Alicante, Mykonos, santorini and so on from Heathrow taking up slots that could be used for business routes connecting the uk to the world? You know the ones that we are apparently lacking that only a third runway could provide. Keep the leisure at Gatwick, which after all it is what it is good at as you say.

[Skipness One Echo]

Simply expand Gatwick and let that solve the problem in the south east. No need for an extra runway at Heathrow. Why have flights to Murcia, Alicante, Mykonos, santorini and so on from Heathrow taking up slots that could be used for business routes connecting the uk to the world? You know the ones that we are apparently lacking that only a third runway could provide. Keep the leisure at Gatwick, which after all it is what it is good at as you say.
It's not that simple.
The leisure routes you speak of are BA short haul at weekends when the A320 series fleet would otherwise be less busy on days when traveling on business drops. So for two days a week you could cram in a handful of long haul flights but that barely addresses the capacity issue at LHR. I agree expand LGW by all means, nothing is stopping the long haul airlines of the world using it today.
You think a second runway at LGW means our hub capacity issue will be fixed? no, because hub capacity is at LHR and that's almost maxed out. You're talking about point to point traffic, that's a similar but not identical issue and you should not mix the two together. LHR only has the connectivity is has because of the short haul, long haul balance, and that is in danger of withering. That's the danger that was identified and will be addressed by LHR expansion.

[Vokes55]

But London doesn't need 'hub capacity', passengers that spend two hours here before getting on another flight, contributing nothing to the economy. London needs capacity to bring people into the city, which is exactly what the majority of those using easyJet and Norwegian are.

If the argument for a 3rd runway at Heathrow was simply to allow BA to expand their 'hub', then it is solving absolutely none of the capacity problems that the South East has.

[DaveReidUK]

But London doesn't need 'hub capacity', passengers that spend two hours here before getting on another flight, contributing nothing to the economy. London needs capacity to bring people into the city, which is exactly what the majority of those using easyJet and Norwegian are.

Yawn.

You might want to do some simple research on how a hub works.

Clue: If an airport has lots of flights on lots of routes (which is what you tell us, rightly, that London needs), then inevitably you are going to get lots of passengers who use the airport to connect from one flight to another because you can't fly direct between the points in question. Complaining that, on average, a third of the passengers arriving at a hub like LHR continue their journey by air ignores the fact that it's those pax that make many services viable that otherwise wouldn't be.

How are you proposing to change that ?

[Vokes55]

Yawn.

You might want to do some simple research on how a hub works.

Clue: If an airport has lots of flights on lots of routes (which is what you tell us, rightly, that London needs), then inevitably you are going to get lots of passengers who use the airport to connect from one flight to another because you can't fly direct between the points in question. Complaining that, on average, a third of the passengers arriving at a hub like LHR continue their journey by air ignores the fact that it's those pax that make many services viable that otherwise wouldn't be.

How are you proposing to change that ?

Yawn.

Ignoring your embarrassing attempt to sound patronising...Low cost airlines have been responsible for opening point-to-point routes that wouldn't have even been dreamt about 15 years ago. And almost every passenger that steps onboard an easyJet or Ryanair flight bound for London, will be finishing their journey in London or the South East.

So you're proposing we increase London's 'hub' capacity, whereby 33% (using your figures) of the increased passenger numbers will not spend a single penny in London or the UK? That's an excellent, efficient use of additional capacity for the economy. :D

London doesn't need extra 'hub capacity'. It's one of the most important cities in the world for business, tourism and VFR traffic. There are zero long haul routes that BA operate that rely on connections from Europe in order to operate.

[Andy_S]

So you're proposing we increase London's 'hub' capacity, whereby 33% (using your figures) of the increased passenger numbers will not spend a single penny in London or the UK? That's an excellent, efficient use of additional capacity for the economy.

But 67% will.........

[Vokes55]

Great, so let's build a third runway at Heathrow so that 67% of the additional capacity can contribute to the UK economy, rather than at Gatwick where 100% (or thereabouts) can. Added to the fact that a second runway at Gatwick would bring far more extra capacity than a third at Heathrow, which would inevitably come with restrictions.

[DaveReidUK]

Nobody is denying the importance of O&D traffic. Even at Heathrow, two-thirds of all passengers fall into that category.

But of the other third, very few are connecting between city pairs that would be remotely feasible for Ryanair, Easyjet, Norwegian, etc to serve direct.

So by all means dispute the synergy of hubs if you wish, but you will find few people in the industry who agree with you.

[davidjohnson6]

Could we move the "shall we put a new runway at Heathrow or Gatwick" discussion into a separate thread please and leave this thread for matters of a purely Gatwick nature ?
There is definitely a place for the discussion (especially as Govt green lights can still be reversed at this stage!) but this thread is probably not the place for it...

[Vokes55]

I'm not disputing the synergy of hubs, I'm disputing the importance of it in a part of the world which is so restricted in terms of runway (and airspace) capacity, serving one of the most important cities in the world.

Given that we aren't going to get another runway any time soon, the one we do get should be used to increase capacity into and out of London, not to increase the amount of people that spend two hours in the airport and only spend £4 on an overpriced sandwich in WHSmiths.

A new runway at Gatwick could double capacity overnight, an extra 40million per year. A third runway at Heathrow is going to increase capacity by 15-20million max, a third of which won't even enter the country. It's a no brainer.

[True Blue]

Many seem to forget that it suits a lot of people/organisations to keep an almost long-haul monopoly at Lhr. How many times have we been told that yields are higher at Lhr? That is because they can charge higher fares there. Keep Lgw from expanding and that cosy position can be maintained. So for the travel establishment, it is a no brainer, shut Lgw out. Sadly, our government fell for it. So every time a new carrier launches a route from Lgw, what is the first we hear? Lgw is only the waiting room until they can get a slot at Lhr. Why? Better yields. And even though we have been hearing that Lhr is full for the last 20 years, they keep finding new slots to take those waiting carriers from Lgw to Lhr, so Lgw never gets a chance to compete effectively in the long-haul market. Status quo maintained. And for as long as the main airport for long-haul is Lhr, fares will remain higher as a result and we will pay for it. WE are fed a constant load of dosh by that same establishment of the need for extra slots to develop new long-haul markets. I bet that if those same markets were considered as profitable and essential as we are told, they would have flights now. I really hope Norwegian are hughly successful and disrupt this cosy arrangement big time.

[Skipness One Echo]

. There are zero long haul routes that BA operate that rely on connections from Europe in order to operate.
Really? Not a single long haul frequency or route would be dropped if BA stopped interlining with Finnair, JAL and Iberia across Europe and parked the A320 fleet. Is that what you said or am I misunderstanding you? Given the sheer volume of international to international connections across Oneworld LHR I suspect you may me misguided. Some Spanish BA flights are almost majority Japanese at certain times of the day.

btw BA don't want a third runway, their business model is dependent on rinsing a semi-captive market. Competition would explode if capacity was increased to the proposed levels.
Also you say "double capacity at LGW" to aid p2p when there is considerable free capacity at LTN/STN/SEN for inbound leisure. You don't NEED to build a new runway anywhere quite yet for that market, regardless of what GIP might want.

[Vokes55]

Given the sheer volume of international to international connections across Oneworld LHR I suspect you may me misguided.

The majority of which is incredibly low yielding. I flew from OSL-LHR-HKG in Club World for £110 more than it would've been to take the same LHR-HKG flights originating in London in economy. BA do not rely on connections in the same way that KLM and Lufthansa do for the majority of their routes, hence why they were against a third runway - on top of what you said, they know they don't need that extra 'hub' capacity to remain profitable.

Also you say "double capacity at LGW" to aid p2p when there is considerable free capacity at LTN/STN/SEN for inbound leisure. You don't NEED to build a new runway anywhere quite yet for that market, regardless of what GIP might want.

Ignoring SEN, those two are reaching capacity, particularly for based aircraft. There is very little capacity left for peak time based slots/parking positions in the whole of the South East, hence why every time Ryanair or easyJet open a new base overseas, the first route to change is usually the reversing of the morning London route.

Besides, a new runway isn't just for now, it's for the future - as we know we're not getting another one any time soon

[DaveReidUK]

Could we move the "shall we put a new runway at Heathrow or Gatwick" discussion into a separate thread please and leave this thread for matters of a purely Gatwick nature ?

Well yes, pretty well all the arguments have been rehashed ad nauseam in the various airport expansion threads.

But before we quit, I'd love to understand the basis of this argument:

A new runway at Gatwick could double capacity overnight, an extra 40million per year. A third runway at Heathrow is going to increase capacity by 15-20million max

A runway is a runway. Wherever you stick it, it's going to be able to accommodate roughly the same amount of traffic.

So how does a new runway at Gatwick have double the capacity of one at Heathrow? If that were actually the case, the Airports Commission's decision ought to have been a no-brainer.

[yotty]

Vokes55 I'm curious to know if you would gain financially if the second runway at LGW went ahead?

[Vokes55]

A runway is a runway. Wherever you stick it, it's going to be able to accommodate roughly the same amount of traffic.

So how does a new runway at Gatwick have double the capacity of one at Heathrow? If that were actually the case, the Airports Commission's decision ought to have been a no-brainer.

Because adding an extra strip of tarmac doesn't increase airspace available. Airspace is the biggest issue, Heathrow is surrounded on all sides and there's no room for additional routings in and out of the TMA. Gatwick doesn't have this issue.

That aside, I'd imagine a new runway at Heathrow will come with restrictions, whether it be limited operating hours or a movement cap.

Vokes55 I'm curious to know if you would gain financially if the second runway at LGW went ahead?

Enlighten me, how do you think I'd gain financially if the second runway at LGW went ahead?

[T250]

Sorry to burst the oh so precious LHR bubble, but I personally and all my friends, if we want a hub will go for AMS.

Cheaper, cleaner and more efficient than LHR. Always

And think of how many flights there are there daily from almost ALL the UK's regional airports, why the hell would anyone bother with LHR? :hmm:

easyJet, KLM or Flybe to AMS is always far cheaper than an LHR fare.

LHR Hub? Maybe, but there are FAR better hubs to be had in Europe, better quality, lower cost.

[DaveReidUK]

Because adding an extra strip of tarmac doesn't increase airspace available. Airspace is the biggest issue, Heathrow is surrounded on all sides and there's no room for additional routings in and out of the TMA. Gatwick doesn't have this issue.

Hmmm.

The conclusion reached by the Airports Commission was that a third runway at Heathrow would add roughly 240,000 ATMs per year to capacity.

So, for your assertion to be true ...

A new runway at Gatwick could double capacity overnight, an extra 40million per year. A third runway at Heathrow is going to increase capacity by 15-20million max, a third of which won't even enter the country. It's a no brainer.

... that a second runway at Gatwick would provide double the increase in capacity compared to a new Heathrow runway, LGW R2 would have to be capable of handling nearly half a million movements per year (unless you're suggesting that the average number of pax per movement would be much higher at LGW than at LHR).

So the additional capacity provided by a second runway at Gatwick would be as much as that of both of Heathrow's current two runways combined.

Really ???

[T250]

Who cares? European hubs are better. They've already won!

Multiple runways at AMS, FRA, CDG, MAD.

Oh well

[Vokes55]

The conclusion reached by the Airports Commission was that a third runway at Heathrow would add roughly 240,000 ATMs per year to capacity.

What they did was divide the current number of movements by 2, and assume that would be how much capacity would be added. There simply isn't the airspace capacity to increase movements into and out of LHR by 51%.

Whilst we're on the subject, Gatwick has 18% more movements and 14% more passengers per runway than Heathrow, in it's current state - and Gatwick would have no airspace restrictions with a second runway.

[DaveReidUK]

Whilst we're on the subject, Gatwick has 18% more movements and 14% more passengers per runway than Heathrow, in it's current state

So you're saying that Gatwick actually has fewer passengers per movement than Heathrow ?

So, for your assertion to be true that a second runway at Gatwick would provide double the increase in capacity compared to a new Heathrow runway, LGW R2 would have to be capable of handling nearly half a million movements per year (unless you're suggesting that the average number of pax per movement would be much higher at LGW than at LHR).

Then that makes your numbers even more dubious.

[Skipness One Echo]

Whilst we're on the subject, Gatwick has 18% more movements and 14% more passengers per runway than Heathrow, in it's current state - and Gatwick would have no airspace restrictions with a second runway.
LGW and LHR both have airspace restrictions, you can eye ball LHR inbounds and departures from LGW easily, they're quite close together.
LHR doesn't currently use land and depart on the same runway for any length of time for noise abatement purposes, LGW does and so of course the runway is more heavily utilised.
AMS has been a great option since the Air UK days but in fairness is starting to feel the pinch, it may have six runways BUT as most on here will know, it uses four at any one time and to nothing close to maximum efficiency. AMS is a poor option to connect if I have to go easyJet to KLM, that's two fares rather than a bundled connecting fare for a start, so despite what you say, there's still a few of us who like the T5 ot T2 option at LHR, T4/T3 well, less so :)

[Vokes55]

LGW and LHR both have airspace restrictions, you can eye ball LHR inbounds and departures from LGW easily, they're quite close together.

Whilst true to an extent, LGW has the whole of the airspace over Sussex near enough to itself. Heathrow is restricted on all sides, even so far as Bristol to the West, with the majority of transatlantic departures interfering with the majority of Bristol arrivals. I spent two years dirty diving into Bristol having been left 8000ft high by London due to LHR departure traffic.

With Stansted and Luton to the North, City to the East, Biggin to the Southeast, Gatwick to the South, Farnborough and a big chunk of military airspace to the Southwest, there isn't room for an extra 240,000 movements per year without severely limiting these other airports. It's the busiest airspace in the world.

[kcockayne]

Whilst what you say about Gatwick having the airspace to the South, it is interesting to note that the departures from 26 to DVR make a right turn out ( to the North) on the SID.

[MattH150197]

Im currently doing a report on the Customer Service Management at Gatwick Airport and am advised to do SWOT analysis (Strength, weaknesses, opportunities and threats) i have found strengths easily enough as youd expect they are well advertised by the airport but im not sure for the weaknesses do you think i could use customer reviews as a source as im struggling to find something more formal and can you think of any potential weaknesses? Also as a threat im thinking of using the highly rated customer service at Heathrow do you think that would be suitable? Thanks for any help you can offer

[DaveReidUK]

Also as a threat im thinking of using the highly rated customer service at Heathrow do you think that would be suitable?

If you've been able to rate Heathrow's customer service that easily then Gatwick's shouldn't present you with any problem either.

[Loch1]

There is plenty of regulatory material available on the CAA website.

[True Blue]

Norwegian starting Singapore from end of September.

[cornishsimon]

It will be interesting to see if BA respond

[AvGeek1]

Norwegian starting Singapore from end of September.

Here is the schedule:

DI7407 LGW1030 – 0615+1SIN 789 14
DI7409 LGW2230 – 1815+1SIN 789 26

DI7408 SIN0850 – 1530LGW 789 25
DI7410 SIN2340 – 0620+1LGW 789 37

[MattH150197]

Okay maybe i shouldnt have worded it like that but doing some quick research on Heathrow i found that it was listed in the top 10 airports in the world by the Passengers Choice Awards and of course it being so close to Gatwick its the obvious threat.

[Logohu]

I wonder if NO announcement LGW-SIN might prompt Scoot to try a SIN-LGW ?

[wallp]

Singapore is a great result for LGW.

Norwegian really are pushing the long haul market, I wonder where next?

[NickBarnes]

£360 economy base fare or around £1,400 premium. Fantastic prices, these should go really well

[True Blue]

Has Sin ever been served from Lgw before, or is this a first?

[sinbad73]

Probably GA in the 80's/90's via AMS/CDG/AUH etc

[bcn_boy]

Yes, GA. I took it to Jakarta in '94 and that was one hell of a long slog, delays in cdg, refuel in Abu Dhabi, stop in Singapore before arriving in Jakarta 26 hours later.

[Skipness One Echo]

Well that's....interesting. Changi from Gatters and not connecting with SIA, it's hardly low yield leisure. Anyone ever seen a disclosed P&L properly for Norwegian Long haul? This is market changing growth, BA have nothing to offer in this space and increasingly refurbished B777s don't look like any kind of answer.

[davidjohnson6]

Skipness - you might want to have a look here:
https://www.norwegian.com/uk/about/company/investor-relations/
https://www.norwegian.com/globalassets/documents/annual-report/nas_annualreport_2016.pdf

[canberra97]

Yes, GA. I took it to Jakarta in '94 and that was one hell of a long slog, delays in cdg, refuel in Abu Dhabi, stop in Singapore before arriving in Jakarta 26 hours later.

I can relate to that, in March 1985 I took GA from Sydney to Melbourne, Bali, Jakarta (disembarked only to board the same aircraft), Singapore, Abu Dhabi (fuel stop with time spent in terminal), Frankfurt (three hour delay due to fog at LGW), and finally Gatwick, it was nearly 48 hours but it was an amazing trip for a 19yo lad flying alone with all those amazing take off and landings and on a 'Jumbojet'.

And the food was amazing too, the whole experience of that flight even to this day has to be my all time best.

[Wycombe]

.....I actually loved the marathons from LGW on GA. Did a few in the 90's, the last being the start of my RTW honeymoon in '95 with a little LGW-AUH-BKK-CGK-(a/c change)-DPS jaunt. More fun than 14hrs sat in the same place!

[daz211]

Today 02 May westjet announced they have placed firm order for 20 B787-900s first to be delivered 2019 so we might see the end of the old Qantas 767s thank good

[JB17]

What sort of capacity is Gatwick running at? I was interested to read about Rwandair starting thrice weekly flights return flights from KGL to LGW - made me think about how close Gatwick is to full slot allocation for departures and arrivals.

[canberra97]

The evening slots that Rwandair have obtained were available as this is a slightly more quiet period at LGW.

[Flitefone]

What sort of capacity is Gatwick running at? I was interested to read about Rwandair starting thrice weekly flights return flights from KGL to LGW - made me think about how close Gatwick is to full slot allocation for departures and arrivals.

The airport is just about maxed out in summer: https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/LGW-S17-Capacity-Declaration.pdf

[davidjohnson6]

As has been mentioned elsewhere, Air Europa are going to start codesharing with Ryanair. The idea of course being that Air Europa offers the long haul flight to Latin America while Ryanair does the short haul between Madrid and places in Europe.

Air Europa flies Gatwick-Madrid twice per day. Anyone want to say whether this might see some reductions in frequency ?

[AerRyan]

Why would it, Ryanair don't fly LGW-MAD, if anything it'll increase as Air Europa can send off less lucrative routes to Ryanair.

[davidjohnson6]

Ryanair fly STN-MAD 4x per day against Air Europa flying LGW-MAD 2x per day
Air Europa do not have a strong premium brand in the UK and are presumably struggling to be cost competitive on point-to-point against the likes of Easyjet and Ryanair for London-Madrid

[True Blue]

Arrived Gatwick Sunday afternoon and passed through Border control in less that a minute, North terminal. I then went back through security to connect to a domestic flight, no delay at all. Really good experience.

[daz211]

Looks like major problems at Gatwick this morning in both North and South terminals with the baggage system I'm hearing flights are leaving with no or only some of the bags passengers being told to fly without checked in baggage and it will be flown on to the destination on a later flight

[Seljuk22]

Norwegian will increase frequencies to the US next winter
Norwegian boosts London - US flights in W17 :: Routesonline (http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/273076/norwegian-boosts-london-us-flights-in-w17/)

[True Blue]

I see Norwegian seem to be dropping Budapest and Larnaca at the end of October as well. I know they are only 5 flights a week, but is the short-haul expansion at Gatwick over in favour of long-haul?

[canberra97]

There is already competition from LGW to Larnaca and I would have thought that Budapest was a very marginal route so I am not totally surprised with Norwegian cancelling these two destinations so the slots can be used for their long haul operations.

[True Blue]

Norwegian starting Lgw - Buenos Aries from Feb 2018, 4 weekly.

[vctenderness]

With headline fare of £299 one way.

[canberra97]

According to a West African news agency 'there is a link online but in French only but I can't upload as I'm using my phone' ASKY Airlines intend on operating Lome to LGW in late 2017 using Boeing 737-800, the topic has been discussed on airliners.net.

[Heathrow Harry]

nothing on their website but they are starting flight to jo'burg

[canberra97]

It says nothing about London on their website I am aware of that but the airline has already announced Johannesburg and plan to serve Paris towards the end of the year with a further route to London in the future.

Not all airlines websites state information like that as many are not updated or don't have a very good PR page but I can assure you I have read it in French online via a link in the African Aviation forum on airliners.net.

[True Blue]

China Airlines starting Taipei from 1st December 4 weekly.

[Wycombe]

China Airlines starting Taipei from 1st December 4 weekly

Another one in the LHR waiting room....a bit like GA not so long ago?

[True Blue]

"Another one in the LHR waiting room....a bit like GA not so long ago"

Is this the best first comment that you could make? Sure Lhr is full, is it not? Has been for many years, has it not? At some point airlines will not be able to switch across because maybe it will actually be full.

[CabinCrewe]

LHR is not 'full'. Expensive slots- yes, inconvenient timed slots- yes, full- no.
Agree though this is a waiting game for LHR, it usually is.

[DaveReidUK]

LHR is not 'full'. Expensive slots- yes, inconvenient timed slots- yes, full- no.

Yes and no. There's physical capacity, but not much headroom under the 480K pa ATM limit

[Skipness One Echo]

China Airlines starting Taipei from 1st December 4 weekly.
They did have LHR slots in recent years, albeit leased. They're not at Gatwick by choice. It seem having struggled at LHR with the economics of the A340, LGW with the A359 won't be much of an improvement, especially given EVA's one stop option will still be at LHR.
Good to see them back in the UK though.

[Wycombe]

Is this the best first comment that you could make?

It seems others agree, so it can't have been that bad ;-) I was also in a hurry.

Although much publicity/media talk does indeed frequently comment that LHR is "full" (or 98/99% so), there still seems to be a fair degree of churn/slot trading on an ongoing basis, as carriers change their schedules/frequencies etc. Not impossible to think that something else will give and this find it's way in, in time.

[canberra97]

China Airlines starting Taipei from 1st December 4 weekly.


This is old news as it was announced on 16 September 2016 that China Airlines would be returning to London with direct flights from TPE to London Gatwick starting on 01 December 2017 flying four times a week with Airbus A350.

To other posters

The Heathrow waiting room comments do get tedious after a while!

[kcockayne]

True; they are tedious - but they are true, nevertheless.

[True Blue]

Norwegian to Chicago and Austin from Lgw on sale now, 4and 3 weekly respectively.

[compton3bravo]

This is all going to end in tears me thinks. Memories of peoplexpress, Laker etc.

[goldeneye]

This is all going to end in tears me thinks. Memories of peoplexpress, Laker etc.

Starting to think the same

[BAladdy]

BA have made some changes to there W17/18 shorthaul schedule:

Geneva - Will increase from 20 to 21 x weekly from 24DEC17-18MAR18 with a additional service added on a Sunday. Flights will op 2 x daily Mon-Fri, 5 flight will op Sat and 6 will op on a Sun.
Marrakech - Will increase to 8 x weekly from 04NOV. 2 flights will operate on a Saturday.
Nuremberg - NEW 4 x weekly Christmas seasonal service will operate 30NOV17-07JAN18.
Paphos - Will go from a summer season route, to operating year round with flights operating up to 3 x weekly for W17
Tirana - Will operate Daily 08DEC17-23MAR18. Flights operated up to 6 x weekly W16
Turin - Additional Saturday flight added 23DEC17-30DEC17 and 10FEB18-24MAR18. Increasing frequency to 14 x weekly. Flights will op 2 daily Mon-Wed, daily Thu/Fri and 3 flights will op on Sat/Sun
Vienna - Resumes 01NOV17 flights will increase from the 4 x weekly frequency operated W16 to 5 x weekly.

Further changes are likely in the coming months

[LGS6753]

Gatwick parking firm collapses leaving hundreds of holidaymakers stranded with their cars missing (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/19/gatwick-parking-firm-collapses-leavinghundreds-holidaymakers/)

[canberra97]

https://www.businesstraveller.com/business-travel/2017/07/28/gatwick-announces-1-15-billion-five-year-investment-plan/