It’s an interesting read. It looks like some sort of audit was done by the CAA and they found the safety breaches. Doubt if we will ever find out what they were. Rightly or wrongly that’s how I read it.
They (management) had a captive market a royally buggered it up. Now it’s clear the CAA didn’t have much faith in them either. |
Originally Posted by SWBKCB
(Post 10768250)
Difficult to say without seeing the whole doc, but could this be as straigtforward as saying that once the company ceased trading, it could no longer keep it's a/c airworthy?. Didn't BE stop operating before tha AOC was pulled, rather than they stopped because the AOC was suspended?
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Horse, stable, bolted ?
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Contracts are out to ferry all the Q400s into Europe for store. They will join the large number of LGW airframes already parked up.
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Originally Posted by Buster the Bear
(Post 10769844)
Contracts are out to ferry all the Q400s into Europe for store. They will join the large number of LGW airframes already parked up.
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Where into Europe are they heading to be parked ?
cs |
Originally Posted by euromanxdude
(Post 10769881)
Any idea how they will be crewed?
Where into Europe are they heading to be parked ? |
Just read all of this..................
https://assets.ey.com/content/dam/ey...-proposals.pdf Having watched these events, from the inside, for nearly 10 years it felt like an accident report. I always wondered why Saad left so suddenly but a possible explanation is that he saw the the airline was heading for bankruptcy and proposed another huge reorganisation. The board wouldn't agree so off he went and their only idea was to appoint Christine O-W. She was clearly unable to do anything meaningful hence those dreadful FY18/19 figures - which I had not seen before. The bit that I still don't fully understand is where did all the revenue go? Flights were busy with some routes regularly full (every seat occupied) and no one would claim that crews were overpaid. Was just the EMB leases? I don't see that directors fees of £2 million is particularly high in relation to the turnover. All in all a very sad end to a great "purple family" - you were a great bunch :ok: Shame about the management........... |
Presumably one of the big ferry companies will pick up the contract?
Not necessarily so. These aircraft are owned by multiple organisations and so more than one ferry company is likely to be selected. |
UK regional carrier Flybe’s administrators intend to appeal to the government in a bid to retain the airline’s operating licence, warning that a sale of the business would become improbable if the licence is revoked.Flybe administrators fight to retain carrier’s operating licence https://www.flightglobal.com/airline...138191.article |
Sounds like an administrator trying to generate some extra fees for themselves because there might still be some extra cash left in the business after they get paid off for work done so far - or the administrators want to cover their backsides against being sued by creditors for not having ticked the right boxes
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Originally Posted by davidjohnson6
(Post 10771644)
Sounds like an administrator trying to generate some extra fees for themselves because there might still be some extra cash left in the business after they get paid off for work done so far - or the administrators want to cover their backsides against being sued by creditors for not having ticked the right boxes
But it is ridiculous that across the US and most of Europe, airlines can apply for some degree of bankruptcy protection to at least try fix things whilst maintaining an AOC. |
To be fair they had years to try to fix things with radical changes that was needed, instead, since Saad left they just sat there and did next to nothing. This is most likely why the government didn't bail them out because in 18 months time they'll have been coming back for yet more handouts to add to the litany of handouts they'd received over the last 17 years.
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https://www.flightglobal.com/mro/fly...138205.article
Wow! Past management should (but probably wont) feel ashamed on how bad this situation got. |
The numbers (as also contained in the doc shared by ETOPS last week) are indeed truly shameful and (sadly) indicate why the Govt was not willing to intervene.
Slightly worrying (for what I would say was considered to be safe/professional operation) that the "return of the aircraft has been “hampered” by the fleet’s not being in the condition required, the administrators state, with a need for a “significant amount” of asset swaps to restore them", or is that just because nearly all of the a/c concerned have been sat on the ground for nearly 2 months with the minimum required attention? (with perhaps a few exceptions) |
Originally Posted by Wycombe
(Post 10772414)
The numbers (as also contained in the doc shared by ETOPS last week) are indeed truly shameful and (sadly) indicate why the Govt was not willing to intervene.
Slightly worrying (for what I would say was considered to be safe/professional operation) that the "return of the aircraft has been “hampered” by the fleet’s not being in the condition required, the administrators state, with a need for a “significant amount” of asset swaps to restore them", or is that just because nearly all of the a/c concerned have been sat on the ground for nearly 2 months with the minimum required attention? (with perhaps a few exceptions) If an aircraft is owned by lessor A, they're not going to want their aircraft back with lessor B's engines. |
Those financial numbers - assuming they are trading losses and not the "gone concern" losses - are truly shocking. By that, I mean that when an airline defaults under a lease, the lease contains a term that all remaining payments until the end of that lease agreement become due and payable. If you had 50 aircraft at $100k/month each, your lease rental outgoings this month would normally be $5m. If you ceased trading and each lease had 5 years left to run, the lessors would suddenly consider that you owed $300m and so all of a sudden, the amount owing when you've gone bust is several multiples of what you'd have paid out if you were still trading. If the £215m loss is before any of those penalty payments were claimed, that's unbelievably bad.
In terms of the aircraft, the situation is not as shocking as it sounds. Within a large fleet of aircraft, it is inevitable that things like engines, props and gear legs will be swapped around over the life of the many aircraft in the fleet. Aircraft A might be delivered with engine serial numbers 1 and 2 installed; aircraft B has engine serial numbers 3 and 4, and the airline has a spare engine number 5. By the end of two years, you'd probably find that aircraft A has engines 2 and 5 fitted, aircraft B has 1 and 4 and engine 3 is sitting as the spare. However, each engine technically "belongs" to the aircraft with which it was delivered. When working towards your handback dates, you'd routinely try to swap engines and major components within the fleet so that each aircraft arrives at its end-of-lease date with the right engines, props etc installed. At least, that is what you should be doing. In the case of Flybe where everything came to a sudden stop, it means that the components would not be attached to the right aircraft. If just one leasing company then insists on having Aircraft A redelivered with engines 1 and 2, and they won't accept engines 2 and 5 as fitted, you're into a major fleet-wide exercise of having to swap all of the out-of-place bits back. That's what has been going on here. It does not automatically mean that the aircraft were in a poor condition - I'm sure that they were not, but it just means that they were not in line with the required conditions at the end of the lease - due to the abrupt termination of it. There were some regulatory findings and issues, so I've been told by people very close to it. To the best of my knowledge, those aren't the same as the issues being referred to here which are really about the leasing companies exercising their contractual rights to the property that they own - and perhaps one or two being precious in the process about what they will and won't accept. |
Sorry - BOH, you beat me to it as I was typing. We're saying the same thing.
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I don't believe it has any reflection on any unsafe practices; it's not worded brilliantly. It's more that engines get swapped around the fleet during their lifespan with an airline and when the aircraft are returned to lessors in an orderly fashion, the correct engines are back on the correct aircraft for the handover. However, with the airline suddenly being grounded overnight - engines are not on the correct aircraft, so need to be swapped before they can be returned to the lessors. I saw on a FB group used by some staff at SOU that a few of the Dashes there have had some work done (there was a pic of one hangared, I think in the Signature hangar, which I was surprised to see), so I guess things are starting to move? |
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