Thomson have suspended flights to SSH with immediate effect, flights are currently planned to resume mid September.

Not according to the Travel News Alert dated today on the Thomson website.

TSR2, it's on Falcon Holidays website.

Falcon | Falcon Holidays | Latest Travel Information

airport66
 

Would anyone booked on the cancelled flights from dub to ssh be offered seats on the flight from belfast.

Don't think so, the operator isn't going to take responsibility for sending people from the republic out when the DFA have said not to travel.

Does anyone know what happens to the US preclearance @ Dub after 26th October? Are Lingus website only quotes flights upto 26th October which i presume coincides with the summer schedule coming to a close.

Nothing happens apart from some schedule changes Boston flights should clear for the winter.

Same with the MCO flights?

Yeah everything else clears, just depends on staff rosters for BOS flights but AFAIK some BOS will be clearing to.

Regarding the US border pre-clearance in DUB, is that something that any airport can do or is it specific to Ireland in some historical link? If it is a matter of paying for the service, how much does it cost?

Not sure how it came about but Abu Dhabi planes to have it also. DUB covered the building costs but everything else is the US authorities.

Not sure if the Abu Dhabi facility will go-ahead as the US House of Representatives in June 2013 prohibited the DHS from using any taxpayer dollars to conduct customs and border protection (CBP) preclearance operations at Abu Dhabi.

USCBP is also in operation at selected airports in Canada and in the Caribbean as well as in Bermuda.

Aer Lingus Winter 2013/14
 

TLS going back year round.
NCL new.
BOS 60% capacity increase.
11 other routes capacity increase.

Latest News > Dublin Airport Welcomes Aer Lingus' Expansion

W13
 

Etihad Boeing 777-300 continuing through winter! :)

ETIHAD Maintains Boeing 777 Service to Dublin in W13 :: Routesonline

U.S. Pre-clearance
 

Re. SecondDog's question on CBP history in Dublin, it originated with a Shannon Airport management initiative to establish U.S. Pre-Inspection (immigration only) at that airport as an enhancement to Shannon's efforts to attract additional tech. transit traffic which was a significant proportion of SNN's business in the 1980s. After much effort on the airport's behalf a trial facility was established in 1986 and a permanent facility opened in 1988. Ironically, given their development of transatlantic transfer traffic at Dublin recently, Aer Lingus initially refused to use the service at Shannon although many other carriers did, including Delta and Pan Am. For competitive reasons Aer Lingus eventually had to use the service but their attitude did much to fuel the feeling that they were actively working to favour their Dublin transatlantic services over Shannon's.

Some years later Dublin, a sister airport of Shannon's in the Aer Rianta group at the time, opened a Pre-inspection facility and, following the consolidation of U.S. Immigration and Customs into Customs and Border Protection post-911, both facilities now offer full Pre-clearance to passengers but Shannon has recently acquired approval to clear corporate aircraft enroute to the U.S. which enables operators to fly direct from SNN to their home towns, even if they're non-gateway airports.

I think people will find somewhat more balanced background on the CBP at this link:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/new-a....831598?via=mr

Essentially, these are inter-governmental agreements. The arrangement at Shannon was no so much a local management initiative (some folk like to ascribe every good thing at Shannon to local management, and every bad thing to nefarious forces frustrating local management), as central Government negotiating something to placate the Shannon Airport lobby for the loss of the compulsory stopover requirement which had forced all trans-Atlantic services bound for Ireland to stop at the airport, previously relaxed to a requirement to stop for at least one leg. The stopover was an obstacle to the development of trans-Atlantic services; however political requirements required some gesture to mark its passing.

What do you need to get such a facility? Basically, a motivated Government with an effective diplomatic service.

U.S. Pre-clearance
 

Shannon Airport's initiative (for that's what this was) on acquiring a Pre-inspection facility was years in the planning and pre-dated Open Skies by a long way. Whereas it did require an act of the Oireachtas to permit it's establishment and SNN, as part of a State company, needed to keep the relevant Govt. Department briefed on it's progress, the groundwork/negotiations were done by Shannon's management for the reason mentioned above- to enhance the airport as a technical transit stop.

The Pre-inspection innovation was a continuation of Shannon's recognised ability to adapt to a changing environment in a way very few airports built for early transatlantic aviation have. Airport Duty Free and the Aeroflot fuel farm (1980's) are other examples of SNN's record of world class innovation.

Prior to the introduction of both clearance facilities the media ran stories which presented the initiatives as massive golden nuggets for Shannon. We were told that dozens of executive jets would be landing there every day to avail of the pre customs facility and that pre-immigration would create a hub for airlines from Central Europe and the former Soviet Republics. These would also be filtering hundreds of thousands of passengers every year through the wonderful facility at Shannon. None of this has happened primarily because of advances in technology which have allowed more and more business aircraft and airliners to fly long distances without stopping.

No airline or business jet is going to needlessly stop at Shannon just to avail of pre customs.

Was the same spin not used for T2 in DUB i am sure that we remember all the ppruners confirming that Air India had signed up in all probability to more than likely use T2 as a hub when the time was right.

Infact has any airline actually used DUB T2 pre clearance as in poped in for the sole reason of pre clearing?

Until staffing is sorted they can't expect to attract anyone.

Ah, balderdash. Every "innovation" and "initiative" in SNN can be traced to some monopoly concession granted by Central Government. I hope we don't continue to fill up the Dublin thread with a whole load of guff about SNN. Then again, that would reflect the reality of aviation policy. Can I contrast your "rah rah" posting with the realism of other contributorsEqually, would it be right to say that no airline has availed of the full freedom supplied by the facility - which is, as passengers are effectively domestic, it should be possible to run services to any airport in the US.

The main thing holding Dublin back from attracting enroute US traffic is that stubby little runway. If we got on with it and built 10L/28R to the expanded 3,600 meters asproposed then we could go after the 3 daily Jet Airways flights stopping in Brussels, Singapore stops in Frankfurt, EI could use their A350's properly and a Chinese carrier could launch a direct flight as they claimed they were so desperate to do when Gilmore was over there a few weeks ago.

10/28 would have been a proper runway if the Clare/Limerick TD's of the time hadn't got their knickers in a twist and demanded it be shortened when it was being planned. Why has cork got a shorter runway? To protect Shannon also. How much do you reckon UAL, DAL and AWE would prefer to be sending those daily 757s into Cork where there is actually a significant population? In short, Dublin and Cork airports have been hampered for decades to protect Shannon.

And before anybody accuses me of being a SNN basher, I work there

Just wait until SNN has blown the money given to them at the start of the year, won't take then long before it will blame DUB.

The above post is 100% right.

Interesting claim but have you anything to support this?

Any danger that it might have something to do with where Cork is built and when. Its also built on a little hill => 502 Ft (AIP EICK 2.24-1 refers)

Lots of our Airports are in the wrong place.

They were also built with a different Aircraft in mind. The CTR's around Knock/Galway/Sligo/Waterford/Kerry & Donegal are designed with an older turbo prop or very small jet in mind. It was expected based on Aircraft systems at the time that all arrivals would route to the overhead then outbound for a procedural approach.


The main runway in Cork was extended in the 1980's where B737 300/400 were cutting edge and Aer Lingus still had BAC 111 in its fleet.

So maybe a little research is in order before posting.

Cork Airport's RWY length (or lack of it)situation is as a result of decisions taken 30+ years ago.

The financing of any RWY extension is now dependent on DAA funds.

And their priority will be Dublin.

Dublin will get its new RWY when it can afford to pay for it.
Remember the CAR has put a minimum passenger figure in place before it will sanction an increase in charges to pay for a new RWY.

Sadly for now the traffic levels in Ireland and the state of the country's finances will mean that any state support for such an extension is moot.

And the capacity of the DAA to raise funds is reduced by it being left with SNN debts.

But, as you say, the regulator has set a requirement that traffic at Dublin reaches a certain level (23 million passengers, I think?) before it would approve any increase in charges to fund the development.

Pity that the same logic wasn't applied to SNN.Well, there never would have been any question of State support for investment in Dublin Airport. That would be prohibited by EU State Aid rules. EU guidelines would not normal envisage support for any airport with more than 5 million passengers a year, and would only really envisage State support for airports serving less than 1 million passengers in areas with some element of disadvantage.

If you look back a few pages you will see a link to an Oreachtas report detailing how 10/28 in Dublin was originally planned to be 3,200m, same as Shannon, but TDs from the South West threatened to revolt and it was subsequently shortened. 10/28 in Dublin was deliberately made too short for a fully loaded 747 to use without needing a fuel stop. The hope was that this would make flights have to go to Shannon, in the end it did more favours for Manchester.

And yes Cork was built in a bloody stupid place, but put a nice long CATIII runway there and most of it's problems are sorted.

This is exactly why we are in the mess we are in.

There is no traffic justification for a nice long CAT III in Cork. Not now and probably not for another 100 years.

That kind of thinking is why we have an airport in nearly every county along the west coast.


And Cork debts.

While all 3 were under the control of Aer Rianta cost of facilities was centralised.

No business case for the repayment of costs seems to have been done.


Only Dublin can cover its costs and pay for its own expansion.

Shannon/Cork will cover their costs but strategic expansion will not come from their coffers.

Yes politicians have always played party favors with state assets.
Its time that this stops.

To clarify
Dublin will eventually have a new RWY.

Cork will only be in a position to extend its RWY if the state picks up the tab.

Cork is still under the umbrella of the DAA until the issue of the debts associated with the new terminal are sorted. But the separation never happened.

Spending money on a new parallel runway in Dublin or a runway extension in Cork is an investment in national infrastructure. They are capital investments in Ireland and would be investments in the Irish economy.
These runway projects should be part of an investment stimulus in the coming budgets. There is no reason why DUB can`t become a more successful hub like AMS.

As I said a few posts ago, EU rules dictate that investment in Dublin could only be undertaken on a commercial basis. In other words, if you couldn't raise commercial finance to do it, Government wouldn't be allowed to put the money in with a case based on benefits to the wider Irish economy. Commercial means that a private investor would be able to generate a return from the investment made.

While in Cork's case, the possibility of State support isn't absolutely ruled out, EU rules would generally envisage any investment (other than a commercial investment) being limited to even smaller regional airports, such as Knock or Kerry. It would be hard to sustain a case for a State aid to Cork airport. You'd have to demonstrate that the area was social disadvantaged, and it just isn't.

To give a concrete example, SNN's special tax regime was struck out by the European Commission a few years ago on grounds that the Mid West wasn't especially socially disadvantaged. That's why any of the tax concessions now being framed for the aviation sector are available throughout Ireland. IDA, etc, can present the Shannon region as an area for an aviation services hub. But, if you want to do your aircraft leasing from Nenagh, or Nobber for that matter, there's nothing stopping you. All of the tax incentives are equally available in all other locations; DUB, ORK, wherever.

Air Lituanica have scheduled flights from DUB to Vilnius and Palanga over Christmas and New Year

Shannon needn't worry about Cork setting up an aviation services hub whatever about Nobber or Nenagh. It couldn't even accommodate an oil-rig related helicopter this Summer. The Chopper in question had to position to and from Waterford each day.

I just have to say that some of the posts are so stupid recently. Things like SNN being debt free etc. Aer Rianta International propped up DUB, ORK & SNN for years and was a SNN Company until taken away recently. Posters on this forum should state facts and not hearsay!!! Can the donkeys here who posted, post, how much on those outside DUB have paid in actual taxes to keep DUB going?
Airlines like Aer Lingus, United (SNN is more profitable that EWR- DUBl ), DL etc are making $ in SNN.
If SNN were to be given $1bn to waste of tax payers money like DUB were then I think SNN would make a go of it much better. T2 is a farce, paid by mostly people outside the DUB area. Typical uneducated design whereby if you need to go from A- B you much travel via X, Y & Z and that is without being a connecting passenger.
ORK and SNN have been burdened by DUB long enough so get over it. We propped up the Shamrock carrier for long enough so that it could fly the cronies out of DUB.

Delusional post.

Dublin carried more Pax in March than SNN did in the whole of last year yet somehow you think that SNN is the jewel in the crown !!!!!

SNN would have been in substantial trouble over the last 10 years had not Dubya invaded Iraq as US forces transiting through there kept its numbers up and the sirport hid behind this claiming we are so successful.

SNN is a MINOR regional airport that used Politics to prevent other airports notably Dublin having direct routes to the US, net result was many Pax went to London rather than SNN. It was overstaffed and overmanned for years before winds of reality blew in.

Racedo - an excellent post.

Speaking of propping up airports, the DAA have being propping up SNN and ORK for a long time. That is a drain on the taxpayer, DUB is profitable and not loss making.

No point in taking about if and or but, the simple fact is Shannon will NEVER need 1 billion to expand. I would bet a larger terminal at the airport will NEVER be needed.

Its not ORK and SNN being burdened by DUB but the other way round.

DUB should be sold so there would be no political interference but the Government to keep SN and other airports happy. I only wish the EU/IMF told the Gov the state assets they had to sell and not left the choice up to them. If only they had to sell DUB, would be the best decision ever. At least ORK are paying their debit down.

As for United and Delta being very profitable from SNN, that's very easy when you operate B757's and Delta. What it does show is larger than B757 isn't profitable form SNN as we can see with EI dropping the A330 for B757.

DAA would only be delighted to get rid of ORK and SNN and they have with SNN, hopefully ORK will go in a few years.

Now if you want to talk about peoples taxes, then SNN catchment area is the highest or second highest unemployment rate in Ireland while Dublin is the lowest. It's more a case of use paying for people to fly from SNN. Anyway better leave the East/West tax issue before the Mods have something to say about it.

Region Q2 11 Q1 12 Q2 12 Q3 12 Q4 12 Q1 13 Q2 13
Border
Unemployment rate (%) 15.1 15.4 16.6 17.7 16.5 15.5 15.3
Midland
Unemployment rate (%) 17.4 18.7 18.3 17.4 16.9 17.1 15.4
West
Unemployment rate (%) 17.0 16.2 16.2 15.3 14.4 12.9 13.6
Mid-West
Unemployment rate (%) 16.0 16.0 16.1 16.6 15.4 15.6 14.8

Mid-West Clare, Limerick City, Limerick County North Tipperary
West Galway City, Galway county, Mayo, Roscommon.

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/rel...nhs_q22013.pdf

The term "catchment area" I have always found a moveable feast.
There are several maps out there each used to justify a particular airport so most need to be treated with a pinch of salt.

Agreed
Aer Rianta was established to run all state airports.
All funds into central coffers and all items funded centrally.
Expansion undertaken at the behest of the political masters.
Agreed
Open to correction here but B757 service is starting in new year with a plan to run all year round.
I understand that the A330 will again return for the busier summer season and B757 operate from Dublin during that time.
So is this not an appropriate use by AER LINGUS of its routes/assets?
While expanding its service from Shannon.
Cork still owes millions so this will be another interesting separation.

As indicated in an earlier post the special tax designation for the Shannon Free Zone is long gone.
There is however still a Border Region which is Galway, Mayo, Donegal, Sligo, Roscommon area which has special tax advantages.

The A330 will not be at SNN again. It's being used for DUB-SFO. SNN will be all B757 until the contract with air contractors is complete.

And if DL and UA were so profitable why have not increased capacity.

This discussion is really more appropriate to the SNN thread. However, it is pertinent to point out that DUB gets no taxpayers' money whatsoever. I've explained this in two recent posts. EU State Aid rules would not permit taxpayers money to be put into DUB. daa raises its own finance, and raised its own finance for T2. That's why the runway can't proceed - the cost would have to be met from within daa, and the regulator will not improve any increase in DUB charges to pay for it until DUB pax exceed (I think) 23 million.

From the Commission For Aviation Regulation determination on the charge that the IAA can levy for ATC services.

This is the trigger to start a new TWR.

I would assume the DAA trigger for a new RWY is the same.

The Commission For Aviation Regulation regularly reviews the Passenger charges that the DAA can levy.

Welcome to the Commission for Aviation Regulation Ireland, About the Commission for Aviation Regulation, CAR website Ireland, Commission for Aviation Regulation Website

Was due to fly with US Airways on Sunday and they managed to cancel both of their flights out of DUB because of technical problems. This summer they have dropped below American who have got themselves together and their OPT is almost prefect. After last summer I wouldn't go near AA again but US are worse.

One thing both carriers have in common besides the upcoming merger is a very aged fleet which go tech every 5 minutes. Cancelled flights must cost them a lot per year.

As we all know T2 is very congested in the mornings but particularly in summer, is it time that the slot coordinator cuts the time some carriers are allowed on the ground for.

Etihad this winter are scheduling a 90 minute turnaround, with a B777 was 2 hours last winter with the A332 and this summer its 2h30m with the B777. If they can get 90 minutes working in winter they should be forced to carry this over to next summer to allow stands be free. EK don't have problem with 90 minutes. The same can be said for US Airways CLT service who have a 2h35m turnaround. I know Pre clearance has a role in that but the arrival could be moved lather.

Getting EY out at 08.20 instead of 09.20 could be a major benefit.