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Old 16th Feb 2023, 09:45
  #1061 (permalink)  
 
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The slots have gone back to BA
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Old 16th Feb 2023, 10:37
  #1062 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by JobsaGoodun
Theyíll go back to BA so that the remedy that BA are legally obliged to provide, can be exercised by another carrier in future.
Such a mess that this has to happen. BA should be able to use them. Atleast we'd actually get some benefit from them... not a single airline for the past 10 years has managed to make these "remedy slots" work. Surely this needs to be looked into now.
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Old 16th Feb 2023, 15:08
  #1063 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Cazza_fly
Such a mess that this has to happen. BA should be able to use them. Atleast we'd actually get some benefit from them... not a single airline for the past 10 years has managed to make these "remedy slots" work. Surely this needs to be looked into now.
A cynic would be of the opinion that it has been a complete success from BA's perspective and would support an investigation into the process that allowed a messy hodgepodge of destinations be allowed to be served which have little congruence as a network from the perspective of a newcomer to LHR.
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Old 16th Feb 2023, 15:38
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It's strange that no other airline has used the chance to use the slots as a feeder for their own global network
All they would need to do is get another airline to use smaller aircraft on their behalf and brand it as their own with a quirky nameThen eventually try to get the slots changed over to their mainline fleet to fly to America etc

​​​​
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Old 16th Feb 2023, 15:59
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All they would need to do is get another airline to use smaller aircraft on their behalf and brand it as their own with a quirky nameThen eventually try to get the slots changed over to their mainline fleet to fly to America etc
Like, say, Virgin?​​​​​​​
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Old 16th Feb 2023, 17:45
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Originally Posted by Stormonttrooper
It's strange that no other airline has used the chance to use the slots as a feeder for their own global network
All they would need to do is get another airline to use smaller aircraft on their behalf and brand it as their own with a quirky nameThen eventually try to get the slots changed over to their mainline fleet to fly to America etc

​​​​
Is it strange? Isn't the conclusion that actually there is no profitable use for those slots in their Remedy guise, the market has moved on? The question is---what is the process by which the Remedy restrictions might be reassessed and lifted? Does BA have to use them or lose them in the intervening period? Is LHR to LBA about to make a reappearance for example?

Just musing, would it make sense to use some of those slot pairs for the PSO routes (Newquay?) in exchange for releasing the restrictions on the others? Maybe there is scope for a deal. After all, we are talking about a potentially valuable asset here.
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Old 16th Feb 2023, 17:57
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Originally Posted by anothertyke
Is it strange? Isn't the conclusion that actually there is no profitable use for those slots in their Remedy guise, the market has moved on? The question is---what is the process by which the Remedy restrictions might be reassessed and lifted? Does BA have to use them or lose them in the intervening period? Is LHR to LBA about to make a reappearance for example?
BA will have to use the slots in the intervening period to retain historic rights, but that won't be an issue. I imagine that as they only need to hit 80% utilisation, they could easily cancel a handful of slots on some current planned services and then backfill these operations by retiming the returned remedy slots. They could add new services but I wouldn't expect to see LBA added given the lack of previous success.

I don't disagree that the remedy needs to be looked at. The charging structure at LHR has effectively made operating anything smaller than a 737/320 commercially unviable, unless you can find a niche, high yielding route not currently served (unlikely). Therefore, there will always be very limited interest in these remedy slots and that's only gotten worse as the charging structure has changed.
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Old 16th Feb 2023, 17:59
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Originally Posted by Stormonttrooper
It's strange that no other airline has used the chance to use the slots as a feeder for their own global network
All they would need to do is get another airline to use smaller aircraft on their behalf and brand it as their own with a quirky nameThen eventually try to get the slots changed over to their mainline fleet to fly to America etc

​​​​
Should be only limited to UK domestic routes, I would think loganair and Eastern Airways more likely to apply for slots, unless one of the skyteam members apply for the slots under Virgin running the flights? Since need a UK AOC
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Old 16th Feb 2023, 20:53
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Originally Posted by allan1987
Should be only limited to UK domestic routes, I would think loganair and Eastern Airways more likely to apply for slots, unless one of the skyteam members apply for the slots under Virgin running the flights? Since need a UK AOC
Not with LHR charges. Not going to happen.
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Old 17th Feb 2023, 00:14
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Originally Posted by Diff Tail Shim
Not with LHR charges. Not going to happen.
They came to a deal with Loganair to keep IOM on the ATR, where there's a will?
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Old 17th Feb 2023, 07:19
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I wonder how many slots BA own now originally came from buying up and then dumping UK regional airlines?
BRAL IOM-LHR
Brymon NQY-LHR
I am sure there are others.

There certainly is a case for these slots "belonging" to the regional airports and not BA.
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Old 17th Feb 2023, 08:50
  #1072 (permalink)  
 
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According to posts elsewhere, Loganair has applied for 3 daily sets to move its LDY service from STN to LHR. That might actually work if they can get reasonable charges at LHR. Certainly better use of the slots than Flybe was putting them to. I would have thought Eastern might also apply to move its NQY from LGW to LHR which would also be sensible, again subject to charges. While the concept behind the remedy slots was originally to provide direct competition on set BA routes (as BA had removed the competition by buying BMI), that clearly hasnít worked so providing better UK regional connectivity to LHR might be the best use of them.
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Old 17th Feb 2023, 08:57
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Originally Posted by willy wombat
According to posts elsewhere, Loganair has applied for 3 daily sets to move its LDY service from STN to LHR. That might actually work if they can get reasonable charges at LHR. Certainly better use of the slots than Flybe was putting them to. I would have thought Eastern might also apply to move its NQY from LGW to LHR which would also be sensible, again subject to charges. While the concept behind the remedy slots was originally to provide direct competition on set BA routes (as BA had removed the competition by buying BMI), that clearly hasnít worked so providing better UK regional connectivity to LHR might be the best use of them.
Yes, that's what I was trying to say. How does it work? If Loganair and Eastern say 'We want those slots for LDY and NQY', who determines whether that is appropriate use of remedy slots? Do DfT and CAA have a seat at the table?
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Old 17th Feb 2023, 08:58
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Originally Posted by willy wombat
According to posts elsewhere, Loganair has applied for 3 daily sets to move its LDY service from STN to LHR. That might actually work if they can get reasonable charges at LHR. Certainly better use of the slots than Flybe was putting them to. I would have thought Eastern might also apply to move its NQY from LGW to LHR which would also be sensible, again subject to charges. While the concept behind the remedy slots was originally to provide direct competition on set BA routes (as BA had removed the competition by buying BMI), that clearly hasnít worked so providing better UK regional connectivity to LHR might be the best use of them.
Assuming this is possible - these remedy slots came out of a legal process around the bmi take-over. Who has the final say?
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Old 17th Feb 2023, 09:11
  #1075 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
Assuming this is possible - these remedy slots came out of a legal process around the bmi take-over. Who has the final say?
The full process is detailed here and handled by the appointed lawyers, Mazars

https://www.acl-uk.org/news/iag-bmi-...ation-process/
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Old 17th Feb 2023, 10:08
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It has been mentioned before but I am surprised easyJet aren't perhaps dipping their toes into Heathrow with these slots.

It's no secret they've tried for slots before at the airport you would have thought flights to Amsterdam, Nice, Edi etc would fit in nicely with any aspirations they had to operate from the airport in the future.
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Old 17th Feb 2023, 10:52
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot
They came to a deal with Loganair to keep IOM on the ATR, where there's a will?
Or..."Where there's incentives".... the challenge is getting the route to cover its costs once those incentives come to an end. LM do at least have the BA codeshare to support them which is no doubt a significant bonus.
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Old 17th Feb 2023, 11:23
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Originally Posted by JobsaGoodun
Or..."Where there's incentives".... the challenge is getting the route to cover its costs once those incentives come to an end. LM do at least have the BA codeshare to support them which is no doubt a significant bonus.
I believe the route is supported by the IOM govt, I agree it becomes a problem if said support is withdrawn, I thought it was open ended but ISTBC.
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Old 17th Feb 2023, 11:46
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Changing subject as bit and I think it has been asked before.
Normally there is someone from flybe who would post on here. I know it will probably be a torrid time for time for them at the moment but an inside opinion on the last nine months would be interesting.
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Old 17th Feb 2023, 12:41
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The Londonderry route beIng talked about by LM is also a PSO.

I'm still not clear on how this works. So have the slots gone back to BA, who can then lease/loan them to whoever, unless somebody wants to use them on LHR-Aberdeen, LHR-Edinburgh, LHR-Nice, LHR-Cairo and LHR-Riyadh?
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