Flybe-V2
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Its also not just as simple as saying we want to fly from A - B airport. The airports may offer some deals, the company may be happy to pay full rates on fees.. but is there a market for it? Over the last few years we've seen a lot of companies saying they will do this, that and the other on the regional market and it doesn't always come through.
Business travel has changed the whole market has changed, routes that historically were very good maybe not so much now, where as other routes can charge a premium and they will still have good loads. CI's and BHD out of SOU are good examples of this. You cant drive easily to either, and both have good load factors and the CIs dont have cheap fares by any means.
Business travel has changed the whole market has changed, routes that historically were very good maybe not so much now, where as other routes can charge a premium and they will still have good loads. CI's and BHD out of SOU are good examples of this. You cant drive easily to either, and both have good load factors and the CIs dont have cheap fares by any means.
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Originally Posted by stewyb
SOU don’t care which airline operates what route, if the deal is right for them they will welcome whomever with open arms, fact!
Of course SOU are not going to turn away business and can’t do much even if they wanted to but the routes hinted at above are all routes already served by other airlines and would clearly indicate BEs intentions to come into SOU and push all other competition out and have a monopoly again. There are still a fair routes left unserved like CDG, MAN etc. Whilst the incumbent carriers aren’t the best, outside KLM, this is not healthy for any airport. I’d like to think BE, EZY and KLM could all operate at SOU together. BE for regional routes, EZY to Europe and KLM to offer the world connections. I suspect they would all want to fly to AMS though so not going to happen.
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Originally Posted by Rivet Joint
Simply not true. Do you think the runway extension which has been many years in the making was for BEs benefit? They clearly want to attract one of the big low cost airlines which would be completely game changing for the airport and the local area. Having a BE base makes it a harder sell for SOU.
Of course SOU are not going to turn away business and can’t do much even if they wanted to but the routes hinted at above are all routes already served by other airlines and would clearly indicate BEs intentions to come into SOU and push all other competition out and have a monopoly again. There are still a fair routes left unserved like CDG, MAN etc. Whilst the incumbent carriers aren’t the best, outside KLM, this is not healthy for any airport. I’d like to think BE, EZY and KLM could all operate at SOU together. BE for regional routes, EZY to Europe and KLM to offer the world connections. I suspect they would all want to fly to AMS though so not going to happen.
Of course SOU are not going to turn away business and can’t do much even if they wanted to but the routes hinted at above are all routes already served by other airlines and would clearly indicate BEs intentions to come into SOU and push all other competition out and have a monopoly again. There are still a fair routes left unserved like CDG, MAN etc. Whilst the incumbent carriers aren’t the best, outside KLM, this is not healthy for any airport. I’d like to think BE, EZY and KLM could all operate at SOU together. BE for regional routes, EZY to Europe and KLM to offer the world connections. I suspect they would all want to fly to AMS though so not going to happen.
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Originally Posted by Rivet Joint
Simply not true. Do you think the runway extension which has been many years in the making was for BEs benefit? They clearly want to attract one of the big low cost airlines which would be completely game changing for the airport and the local area. Having a BE base makes it a harder sell for SOU.
Of course SOU are not going to turn away business and can’t do much even if they wanted to but the routes hinted at above are all routes already served by other airlines and would clearly indicate BEs intentions to come into SOU and push all other competition out and have a monopoly again. There are still a fair routes left unserved like CDG, MAN etc. Whilst the incumbent carriers aren’t the best, outside KLM, this is not healthy for any airport. I’d like to think BE, EZY and KLM could all operate at SOU together. BE for regional routes, EZY to Europe and KLM to offer the world connections. I suspect they would all want to fly to AMS though so not going to happen.
Of course SOU are not going to turn away business and can’t do much even if they wanted to but the routes hinted at above are all routes already served by other airlines and would clearly indicate BEs intentions to come into SOU and push all other competition out and have a monopoly again. There are still a fair routes left unserved like CDG, MAN etc. Whilst the incumbent carriers aren’t the best, outside KLM, this is not healthy for any airport. I’d like to think BE, EZY and KLM could all operate at SOU together. BE for regional routes, EZY to Europe and KLM to offer the world connections. I suspect they would all want to fly to AMS though so not going to happen.
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BE and KL absolutely did not coexist at SOU. It was a mess for both and KL withdrew before returning only after BE Mk1 had departed this life.
And I didn’t think the Aer Lingus or BA brands were too shabby ?
None of the core routes at SOU are strong enough to take two carriers in competition. All are good single carrier routes and poor two-airline routes - they’re just not thick enough to warrant two airlines. The airport has never sustained it and nor will it either.
The ongoing fantasy of easyJet at SOU is clearly too much for some to resist. The runway extension will help current carriers who are payload restricted even on an ATR72 some days, let alone an E145. It will also help with some more leisure flying and there are two options - neither easyJet - that I can think of which would work well to deliver it.
And I didn’t think the Aer Lingus or BA brands were too shabby ?
None of the core routes at SOU are strong enough to take two carriers in competition. All are good single carrier routes and poor two-airline routes - they’re just not thick enough to warrant two airlines. The airport has never sustained it and nor will it either.
The ongoing fantasy of easyJet at SOU is clearly too much for some to resist. The runway extension will help current carriers who are payload restricted even on an ATR72 some days, let alone an E145. It will also help with some more leisure flying and there are two options - neither easyJet - that I can think of which would work well to deliver it.
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Originally Posted by Albert Hall
BE and KL absolutely did not coexist at SOU. It was a mess for both and KL withdrew before returning only after BE Mk1 had departed this life.
And I didn’t think the Aer Lingus or BA brands were too shabby ?
None of the core routes at SOU are strong enough to take two carriers in competition. All are good single carrier routes and poor two-airline routes - they’re just not thick enough to warrant two airlines. The airport has never sustained it and nor will it either.
The ongoing fantasy of easyJet at SOU is clearly too much for some to resist. The runway extension will help current carriers who are payload restricted even on an ATR72 some days, let alone an E145. It will also help with some more leisure flying and there are two options - neither easyJet - that I can think of which would work well to deliver it.
And I didn’t think the Aer Lingus or BA brands were too shabby ?
None of the core routes at SOU are strong enough to take two carriers in competition. All are good single carrier routes and poor two-airline routes - they’re just not thick enough to warrant two airlines. The airport has never sustained it and nor will it either.
The ongoing fantasy of easyJet at SOU is clearly too much for some to resist. The runway extension will help current carriers who are payload restricted even on an ATR72 some days, let alone an E145. It will also help with some more leisure flying and there are two options - neither easyJet - that I can think of which would work well to deliver it.
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The runway extension ( when it happens) will help with payloads,but the on going persistence with Easy seting up a base is pie in the sky!
The airport would need a 7000 ft runway and larger/ increased stands,something that it can't offer,unlike down the road at Bournemouth.
Let's hope that investment leads to a much needed northern taxiway to stop all the backtracking,and further development of bis jet facilities .
SOU can survive and prosper with the runway extension and airside investment,but it cant rival Bournemouth for the sun routes.
The airport would need a 7000 ft runway and larger/ increased stands,something that it can't offer,unlike down the road at Bournemouth.
Let's hope that investment leads to a much needed northern taxiway to stop all the backtracking,and further development of bis jet facilities .
SOU can survive and prosper with the runway extension and airside investment,but it cant rival Bournemouth for the sun routes.
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Originally Posted by RW20
The runway extension ( when it happens) will help with payloads,but the on going persistence with Easy seting up a base is pie in the sky!
The airport would need a 7000 ft runway and larger/ increased stands,something that it can't offer,unlike down the road at Bournemouth.
Let's hope that investment leads to a much needed northern taxiway to stop all the backtracking,and further development of bis jet facilities .
SOU can survive and prosper with the runway extension and airside investment,but it cant rival Bournemouth for the sun routes.
The airport would need a 7000 ft runway and larger/ increased stands,something that it can't offer,unlike down the road at Bournemouth.
Let's hope that investment leads to a much needed northern taxiway to stop all the backtracking,and further development of bis jet facilities .
SOU can survive and prosper with the runway extension and airside investment,but it cant rival Bournemouth for the sun routes.
Last edited by stewyb; 30th Jul 2022 at 21:30.
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Difficult to see what select routes can be added,considering Bournemouth has the sun routes tied up,certainty Paris for example coudnt fill a 320,but may be a flybe 400?
Realistically given the runway extension Easy or other operators could offer some seasonally Summer weekly operations,but it's going to be limited, look at Southend as a example, runway extension,stands( more the SOU) and airside improvements,now virtually without daytime operations!
Realistically given the runway extension Easy or other operators could offer some seasonally Summer weekly operations,but it's going to be limited, look at Southend as a example, runway extension,stands( more the SOU) and airside improvements,now virtually without daytime operations!
Originally Posted by RW20
SOU can survive and prosper with the runway extension and airside investment,but it cant rival Bournemouth for the sun routes.
While I am being pedantic, in the interests of technical correctness should you not be “RWY20”, or maybe “RWY26”?
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Originally Posted by Albert Hall
BE and KL absolutely did not coexist at SOU. It was a mess for both and KL withdrew before returning only after BE Mk1 had departed this life.
And I didn’t think the Aer Lingus or BA brands were too shabby ?
None of the core routes at SOU are strong enough to take two carriers in competition. All are good single carrier routes and poor two-airline routes - they’re just not thick enough to warrant two airlines. The airport has never sustained it and nor will it either.
The ongoing fantasy of easyJet at SOU is clearly too much for some to resist. The runway extension will help current carriers who are payload restricted even on an ATR72 some days, let alone an E145. It will also help with some more leisure flying and there are two options - neither easyJet - that I can think of which would work well to deliver it.
And I didn’t think the Aer Lingus or BA brands were too shabby ?
None of the core routes at SOU are strong enough to take two carriers in competition. All are good single carrier routes and poor two-airline routes - they’re just not thick enough to warrant two airlines. The airport has never sustained it and nor will it either.
The ongoing fantasy of easyJet at SOU is clearly too much for some to resist. The runway extension will help current carriers who are payload restricted even on an ATR72 some days, let alone an E145. It will also help with some more leisure flying and there are two options - neither easyJet - that I can think of which would work well to deliver it.
Previous to that they had a mutually beneficial co-operation.
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Emerald are increasing BHD-SOU to 2 daily on some days starting from around the August Bank Holiday weekend.
With 2 daily Eastern (most days) and daily BEE this means there will now be more capacity on this route than there ever was pre-pandemic (it was usually up to 3 daily BEE Mk1)
Can't see this being sustainable.
With 2 daily Eastern (most days) and daily BEE this means there will now be more capacity on this route than there ever was pre-pandemic (it was usually up to 3 daily BEE Mk1)
Can't see this being sustainable.
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Emerald do seem to be putting a lot of effort into establishing themselves, arguably a little more than Flybe. Emerald have the benefit of the backing of the Aer Lingus brand and booking systems, a recognised brand in Ireland as well as the U.K. Between them and Loganair they do seem to be tying up the regional market.
For anyone confused about the Runway at SOU, even Flybe Mk1 had restrictions from time to time on the Dash especially when operating some of the longer flights, a tech stop on a hot day wasn't unheard of. Combine this with LM, SI, T3 and GR all operating aircraft that are restricted its obvious that the extension is more to benefit the regional market and to ensure those aircraft can depart full rather than to create an attractive airport for someone like Easy.
If Flybe do have the resources and will to set up a base at SOU hopefully it will be much more successful than T3, however if it was a case of putting eggs in baskets I think they should focus more on LM and Emerald.
For anyone confused about the Runway at SOU, even Flybe Mk1 had restrictions from time to time on the Dash especially when operating some of the longer flights, a tech stop on a hot day wasn't unheard of. Combine this with LM, SI, T3 and GR all operating aircraft that are restricted its obvious that the extension is more to benefit the regional market and to ensure those aircraft can depart full rather than to create an attractive airport for someone like Easy.
If Flybe do have the resources and will to set up a base at SOU hopefully it will be much more successful than T3, however if it was a case of putting eggs in baskets I think they should focus more on LM and Emerald.
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Originally Posted by wanna
Emerald do seem to be putting a lot of effort into establishing themselves, arguably a little more than Flybe. Emerald have the benefit of the backing of the Aer Lingus brand and booking systems, a recognised brand in Ireland as well as the U.K. Between them and Loganair they do seem to be tying up the regional market.
For anyone confused about the Runway at SOU, even Flybe Mk1 had restrictions from time to time on the Dash especially when operating some of the longer flights, a tech stop on a hot day wasn't unheard of. Combine this with LM, SI, T3 and GR all operating aircraft that are restricted its obvious that the extension is more to benefit the regional market and to ensure those aircraft can depart full rather than to create an attractive airport for someone like Easy.
If Flybe do have the resources and will to set up a base at SOU hopefully it will be much more successful than T3, however if it was a case of putting eggs in baskets I think they should focus more on LM and Emerald.
For anyone confused about the Runway at SOU, even Flybe Mk1 had restrictions from time to time on the Dash especially when operating some of the longer flights, a tech stop on a hot day wasn't unheard of. Combine this with LM, SI, T3 and GR all operating aircraft that are restricted its obvious that the extension is more to benefit the regional market and to ensure those aircraft can depart full rather than to create an attractive airport for someone like Easy.
If Flybe do have the resources and will to set up a base at SOU hopefully it will be much more successful than T3, however if it was a case of putting eggs in baskets I think they should focus more on LM and Emerald.
I would be very surprised if any of you think SOU is investing many millions of pounds just to help the existing carriers operate a bit better. No company makes a large investment for such a small gain. Remember airports get money from landing fees, footfall etc. they want to open up a new revenue stream and take the next step in development which means bigger aircraft and more passengers. I agree it’s odd that they aren’t also creating the bigger stands etc but that’s likely phase 2.
To anyone who thinks EZY wouldn’t be a success at SOU you must be forgetting a large chunk of LGWs customers come from this area and Hampshire is one of the wealthiest counties in the country. If EZY could offer the same fairs at SOU as they do at LGW then why wouldn’t people use SOU? Your next question no doubt will be what’s in it for EZY? Why split a base? Competition. Lots at LGW and none at SOU.
Getting back to BE I hope they do open more routes at SOU but focus on MAN, CDG, French second home market and maybe the Scottish routes.
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While SOU would definitely be attractive for some (not necessarily a large chunk) of EZY’s LGW customers, EZY will obviously continue to firstly maximise their LGW slot base. If/when they get to the point that no more significant expansion is possible at LGW then SOU could get interesting. In the meantime they could try the odd W pattern to test the water.
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Back to Flybe also. The routes from NCL, ABZ, INV to BHD were all new, so it’s apparent why they might need new aircraft deliveries to fly them. They were already flying MAN but are stopping - is this related to aircraft deliveries also?
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Originally Posted by RW20
Willy wombat, your points make sense and are more realistic.unfortunately some contributors on here can get carried away
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Originally Posted by Albert Hall
Back to Flybe also. The routes from NCL, ABZ, INV to BHD were all new, so it’s apparent why they might need new aircraft deliveries to fly them. They were already flying MAN but are stopping - is this related to aircraft deliveries also?
Seems like a sensible decision.
