Flybe-V2
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I am curious as to why Flybe feel the need to work the aircraft so hard with consequent problems and delays. Traditionally you either have expensive aircraft with low docs and these you have to work hard. Alternatively you have cheap aircraft, with possibly higher docs, and these you can work less hard and concentrate on using them at the peaks. Given that Flybe must have got these dash 8s for peanuts (and if not, questions must be asked) they should have the luxury of being able to economically operate a more relaxed schedule and be the UK’s most punctual airline. Now that would be a USP.
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Seems like KLM and Schiphol are struggling so much that they're flying empty planes back home, and not bringing the passengers because the airport can't cope. 
If the flag carrier is struggling at home base, it's understandable that all airlines including Flybe are taking a hit on delays and cancellations messing with the schedule.
Schiphol is somehow overwhelmed, add in maintenance planned for this weekend and strong winds from the North... and everything grinds to a halt.
If the flag carrier is struggling at home base, it's understandable that all airlines including Flybe are taking a hit on delays and cancellations messing with the schedule.
Schiphol is somehow overwhelmed, add in maintenance planned for this weekend and strong winds from the North... and everything grinds to a halt.
I agree with the above post. Drop a daily rotation, run an on time schedule and press release it for some cheap/free coverage and get known as the only UK carrier operating on time.
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Schiphol is in trouble because it is supposed to have a ground staff of 1400 and has a current shortfall of 600 with only 200 in the training pipeline. This will not be a short-term issue.
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I was on delayed Flybe flight from AMS to BHX yesterday evening. I was checking the plane all day and it was fine on the BHX-BHD-BHX leg but pilot said they then couldn't get into AMS and so had to sit at BHX and wait. We were only an hour and an half late in the end which wasn't too bad given it had to the EMA leg first. Virtually all flights into Schipol were showing as delayed yesterday.
The queues were fine at Schipol when we got there but I think that was due to the time of day. I saw horror stories on Twitter when we were on our train from Berlin about people queuing for hours in the morning
The queues were fine at Schipol when we got there but I think that was due to the time of day. I saw horror stories on Twitter when we were on our train from Berlin about people queuing for hours in the morning
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....ambitious, and very reliant on aircraft serviceability! The current operation is really thinly spread, with the 4 aircraft they have at the moment nightstopping in BHD, BHX, LBA and AMS.
FR24 suggests that none of the other soon expected airframes (apparently FLBA, FLBB and JECP) have moved in the last couple of weeks.
FR24 suggests that none of the other soon expected airframes (apparently FLBA, FLBB and JECP) have moved in the last couple of weeks.
Because the Flybe schedules requires 6 aircraft but due to delays in maintenance bringing aircraft back into service they're currently having to work the 4 aircraft they have harder.
It's nothing to do with picking & choosing the best. Part of it is down to all of them being in storage for two years, all the systems are meant to be tested and operated on a regular basis, hydraulics for example to prevent seals from perishing but this isn't always possible due to other reasons. Exeter is well known for doing a very good job and won't allow aircraft back into service if licenced engineers are not happy with the state of the aircraft. Another issue particularly for the Dash 8 is that the parts have to be shipped across from Canada which are currently being delayed or taking longer than usual due to supply chain issues.
So again it's partly out of Flybe's hands, In regards to sorting things out before their launch its a fine balancing act between getting the aircraft in service for the launch but not having them sitting around doing nothing for ages (which to my knowledge for any new airline never happens Air Southwest for example only started with 2 aircraft, added a third and then eventually scaled up to leasing a further 2)
So again it's partly out of Flybe's hands, In regards to sorting things out before their launch its a fine balancing act between getting the aircraft in service for the launch but not having them sitting around doing nothing for ages (which to my knowledge for any new airline never happens Air Southwest for example only started with 2 aircraft, added a third and then eventually scaled up to leasing a further 2)
The expression ‘trying to run before you can walk’ springs to mind!
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Apparently it is no coincidence that two of the earliest aircraft into the fleet are two which sustained damage in previous incidents in Flybe. Although they are fixed (of course!) it does suggest that there’s a two way street here with the leasing companies and the new airline hasn’t just had a completely free pick of the bunch.
Because the Flybe schedules requires 6 aircraft but due to delays in maintenance bringing aircraft back into service they're currently having to work the 4 aircraft they have harder. The other option would be to cancel flights and delays opening of routes which would then have the usual idiots on here moaning and customers ranting and raving meaning any reputation they've tried to build goes out the window. I personally admire what they've done so far in such a short space of time is very impressive, not to mention ambitious!
Let's be clear, they've sold a program on the basis of needing six airframes and they only have four. So that's a gamble that's gone wrong, as with the current meltdown in staff attendance and supply chain, it's a struggle to run the day to day never mind grow market share. It's not a problem unique to flybe though, as TUI, BA and easyJet have realised way too late they can't staff their own planned (and sold) flying programs. It feels to me that there was a delusion up to boardroom level that the operational challenges could be met when those closer to the coalface saw the trainwreck coming some time ago. I don't imagine there's much call for leasing Q400s anymore, I suspect some of the ex flybe models will be stored to years and possibly scrapped IMHO.
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Grow up and stop calling people "idiots". It's uncalled for and frankly if you can't win on a reasoned debate, name calling isn't a good look for a grown up, which I assume you are?
Let's be clear, they've sold a program on the basis of needing six airframes and they only have four. So that's a gamble that's gone wrong, as with the current meltdown in staff attendance and supply chain, it's a struggle to run the day to day never mind grow market share. It's not a problem unique to flybe though, as TUI, BA and easyJet have realised way too late they can't staff their own planned (and sold) flying programs. It feels to me that there was a delusion up to boardroom level that the operational challenges could be met when those closer to the coalface saw the trainwreck coming some time ago. I don't imagine there's much call for leasing Q400s anymore, I suspect some of the ex flybe models will be stored to years and possibly scrapped IMHO.
Let's be clear, they've sold a program on the basis of needing six airframes and they only have four. So that's a gamble that's gone wrong, as with the current meltdown in staff attendance and supply chain, it's a struggle to run the day to day never mind grow market share. It's not a problem unique to flybe though, as TUI, BA and easyJet have realised way too late they can't staff their own planned (and sold) flying programs. It feels to me that there was a delusion up to boardroom level that the operational challenges could be met when those closer to the coalface saw the trainwreck coming some time ago. I don't imagine there's much call for leasing Q400s anymore, I suspect some of the ex flybe models will be stored to years and possibly scrapped IMHO.
We know you have an agenda against Flybe 2 from your perpetual wrongful allegations of financial wrongdoing when the company was set up. Who specifically called You an idiot by the way?
Skipness has a point on the airframes - Flybe right now really could do with either having a 5th airframe as a spare and/or additional crew on call. If I look up the 4 aircraft Flybe is currently using on FR24 over the last 7 days, I see a lot of red. If all was fine, I would be seeing a lot of green on FR24. If Ryanair can run a stable operation in June 2022 out of the UK, with low cancellation rates and minimal delays, then so can any other airline.
You can't blame the weather in June.... there's a serious disconnect between what Flybe sold and what they are capable of delivering in terms of operations. You can blame AMS, but if that's the case then dedicate an airframe to AMS routes, so that delays there don't infect the rest of Flybe's operation. If it means suspending the weakest routes (e.g. LHR-LBA) so as to stabilise the rest of the network, then so be it - at least Wizz have decided to take this type of action.
You can't blame the weather in June.... there's a serious disconnect between what Flybe sold and what they are capable of delivering in terms of operations. You can blame AMS, but if that's the case then dedicate an airframe to AMS routes, so that delays there don't infect the rest of Flybe's operation. If it means suspending the weakest routes (e.g. LHR-LBA) so as to stabilise the rest of the network, then so be it - at least Wizz have decided to take this type of action.
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 7th Jun 2022 at 11:44.
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Grow up and stop calling people "idiots". It's uncalled for and frankly if you can't win on a reasoned debate, name calling isn't a good look for a grown up, which I assume you are?
Let's be clear, they've sold a program on the basis of needing six airframes and they only have four. So that's a gamble that's gone wrong, as with the current meltdown in staff attendance and supply chain, it's a struggle to run the day to day never mind grow market share. It's not a problem unique to flybe though, as TUI, BA and easyJet have realised way too late they can't staff their own planned (and sold) flying programs. It feels to me that there was a delusion up to boardroom level that the operational challenges could be met when those closer to the coalface saw the trainwreck coming some time ago. I don't imagine there's much call for leasing Q400s anymore, I suspect some of the ex flybe models will be stored to years and possibly scrapped IMHO.
Let's be clear, they've sold a program on the basis of needing six airframes and they only have four. So that's a gamble that's gone wrong, as with the current meltdown in staff attendance and supply chain, it's a struggle to run the day to day never mind grow market share. It's not a problem unique to flybe though, as TUI, BA and easyJet have realised way too late they can't staff their own planned (and sold) flying programs. It feels to me that there was a delusion up to boardroom level that the operational challenges could be met when those closer to the coalface saw the trainwreck coming some time ago. I don't imagine there's much call for leasing Q400s anymore, I suspect some of the ex flybe models will be stored to years and possibly scrapped IMHO.
Flybe sold a programme needing 6 planes and only has 4. Regardless of why, that’s their problem. EU261 compensation will say that’s avoidable and I agree. BA has leased in planes to try and stop the delays but Flybe hasn’t. That’s their choice but let’s stop this myth that Flybe has no responsibility for the situation it finds itself in.
To be clear, I said flybe2 was somewhat un-ethical in my opinion, but I also stated it was all clearly legal and above board. I did not suggest financial wrongdoing, my point was clearly that what they had done was perfectly legal but objectionable.
Reading comprehension is under-rated, if you can't do people the simple courtesy of reading and understanding what others say, then I fail to see what value you add to this debate.
I also said that since flybe had (re-)launched, the proof of the pudding was yet to come. Objectively, some problems have arisen and need addressing, it will be interesting to see how they do this.
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I've tried to be balanced here, but you really know a debate on PPRuNe has hit the gutter when someone is quoting a Simpleflying article as a definitive source. Surely you know better, and I think you do! Both the article and what airsouthwest has quoted above are talking rubbish. The Heathrow slots are owned by BA but held by Flybe in perpetuity under the terms of the IAG/bmi remedy commitments given to the EU, unless Flybe now voluntarily give them back to BA or default on their usage.
If that source and repeated playground nonsense is all you've ever got then on you go. The level of debate on here really had collapsed.
Far be it from anyone to ask why they're flying fresh air and nothing else in from Leeds using Heathrow slots or going head to head with BA and KLM to AMS. Or how they make money on a LHR pricing structure against *BOTH* BA and Aer Lingus to Belfast using a smaller, slower aircraft on a much less competitve schedule.
Perhaps we should be grateful MAD is just that bit too far for a Q400? These are all fair questions that we should debate beyond at level higher than playground antics.
Far be it from anyone to ask why they're flying fresh air and nothing else in from Leeds using Heathrow slots or going head to head with BA and KLM to AMS. Or how they make money on a LHR pricing structure against *BOTH* BA and Aer Lingus to Belfast using a smaller, slower aircraft on a much less competitve schedule.
Perhaps we should be grateful MAD is just that bit too far for a Q400? These are all fair questions that we should debate beyond at level higher than playground antics.
Last edited by Skipness One Foxtrot; 7th Jun 2022 at 23:54.
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If that source and repeated playground nonsense is all you've ever got then on you go. The level of debate on here really had collapsed.
Far be it from anyone to ask why they're flying fresh air and nothing else in from Leeds using Heathrow slots or going head to head with BA and KLM to AMS. Or how they make money on a LHR pricing structure against *BOTH* BA and Aer Lingus to Belfast using a smaller, slower aircraft on a much less competitve schedule.
Perhaps we should be grateful MAD is just that bit too far for a Q400? These are all fair questions that we should debate beyond at level higher than playground antics.
Far be it from anyone to ask why they're flying fresh air and nothing else in from Leeds using Heathrow slots or going head to head with BA and KLM to AMS. Or how they make money on a LHR pricing structure against *BOTH* BA and Aer Lingus to Belfast using a smaller, slower aircraft on a much less competitve schedule.
Perhaps we should be grateful MAD is just that bit too far for a Q400? These are all fair questions that we should debate beyond at level higher than playground antics.
