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Doncaster Sheffield-3

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Doncaster Sheffield-3

Old 17th Mar 2023, 10:17
  #1081 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
yeah - with an audience of 50,000 Brexit lovers - won't make a difference at all
Just seen the interview between the GBrexit news correspondent and local MP elsewhere and I have to say it looked and sounded like something lifted straight from The Smell of Reeves and Mortimer, Councillors Cox and Evans specifically.

I agree, wonít make a difference. This needs real stakeholder input and feasibility studies including industry heavyweights as to whether they would ever be interested in flying from DSA. If as I suspect is the case that not many have it on their radar, then a full and frank appraisal needs to be made. At the moment this is just being used as political ammunition and nothing more.
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Old 17th Mar 2023, 11:39
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I think we have reached the point of the Monty Python parrot unfortunately.
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Old 17th Mar 2023, 15:18
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Lots of hype this morning from the Chadwick disciples that the new Airlander 10 programme is coming to Doncaster.

I can confirm it is not coming to DSA.
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Old 17th Mar 2023, 15:45
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We saw what happened to that last time.
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Old 17th Mar 2023, 16:41
  #1085 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by dsamole
Lots of hype this morning from the Chadwick disciples that the new Airlander 10 programme is coming to Doncaster.

I can confirm it is not coming to DSA.
An active airport would not sit well along side an airship factory anyway, so not sure why theyíre getting excited.
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Old 17th Mar 2023, 16:46
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Here is part of the update from Nick Fletcher today.
AIRPORT CLOSURE - WEEK 36 JOINT STATEMENT This week saw the issue of the joint statement of the Mayors of Doncaster and South Yorkshire and the 3 MPs in Doncaster. CPO I called for a CPO of the airport from the outset. That was in July 2022 when the airport was first threatened with closure. I was told then and since that it was premature and that it couldnít be done. I disagreed. I knew then as I do now that there is a great deal of preparation that has to be done before the process can start. There is no reason why that should not have been started then. It would also have signalled to Peel that we were serious. We are where we are though and sadly we canít go back in time. The CPO process has started so we need to ensure it doesnít falter or get delayed. PEELíS ANNOUNCEMENT I have also written to the Mayor regarding Peelís announcement (reported in the Yorkshire Post - 06.03.23) that they have had no contact for four months and that since then the consortium have not provided any evidence at all of their financial status which is necessary for money laundering and counter-terrorism Both Mayors have assured me that the UAE Consortium is credible and that it has made a credible offer. I have been in contact with Peel and they have stated the information they have requested with regards to any purchase of such an asset at present has not been forthcoming. It doesnít affect the CPO though which must be driven through as quickly as possible.
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Old 17th Mar 2023, 17:44
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I am continually amazed by the ability of people to raise cash for Airships - they area money pit and never seem to succeed
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Old 17th Mar 2023, 18:24
  #1088 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
I am continually amazed by the ability of people to raise cash for Airships - they area money pit and never seem to succeed
Apparently they have an order to fulfil which is why they are looking at a purpose built facility as Cardington canít be expanded. Itís potential jobs and would probably contribute more to the economy than an under performing airport. Itís not something I know much about though so you may be right, but I wish them well.
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Old 18th Mar 2023, 06:56
  #1089 (permalink)  
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Another pipe dream.

​​​It will never happen.

The Doncaster MPs are desperately trying to get good news for the area. They're putting all their eggs in the Airlander and Rail HQ baskets (which won't come to Doncaster)


​​​​​You can't blame them though, when the only private sector for investment in the city is just warehouse after warehouse.
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Old 18th Mar 2023, 08:49
  #1090 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pug
Apparently they have an order to fulfil which is why they are looking at a purpose built facility as Cardington canít be expanded. Itís potential jobs and would probably contribute more to the economy than an under performing airport. Itís not something I know much about though so you may be right, but I wish them well.
Another company that will raise cash and loans from the public sector and go bust - the list is incredibly long
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Old 18th Mar 2023, 15:11
  #1091 (permalink)  
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At a recent LBA consultative committee meeting, the situation with Wizz was discussed. They have said that even when DSA was open, the vast majority of the passengers using their services had O&D in West Yorkshire, and they have seen high profitable load factors since moving to LBA. They have said they will not return to DSA in any scenario should the airport reopen.

It was also said that several airports touted for the Wizz business, including one to the North East of LBA (presumably Teesside) which offered to pay them to fly from there, however they chose LBA due to access to the market.

Last edited by pug; 18th Mar 2023 at 15:24.
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Old 18th Mar 2023, 15:16
  #1092 (permalink)  
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Wizz were looking at Leeds for a long, long time before the closure of DSA.

If by some miracle it did reopen, there would only be a chance of TUI. No one else will ever touch the place..
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Old 18th Mar 2023, 15:17
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CPO I called for a CPO of the airport from the outset. That was in July 2022 when the airport was first threatened with closure. I was told then and since that it was premature and that it couldn’t be done. I disagreed. I knew then as I do now that there is a great deal of preparation that has to be done before the process can start. There is no reason why that should not have been started then. It would also have signalled to Peel that we were serious. We are where we are though and sadly we can’t go back in time.
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Old 18th Mar 2023, 16:24
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Originally Posted by pug
At a recent LBA consultative committee meeting, the situation with Wizz was discussed. They have said that even when DSA was open, the vast majority of the passengers using their services had O&D in West Yorkshire, and they have seen high profitable load factors since moving to LBA. They have said they will not return to DSA in any scenario should the airport reopen.

It was also said that several airports touted for the Wizz business, including one to the North East of LBA (presumably Teesside) which offered to pay them to fly from there, however they chose LBA due to access to the market.
And yet Wizz have only 2 arrivals today and none tomorrow at LBA, not the same operation they had at DSA. Perhaps they have taken the opportunity to consolidate flights between the airports they can operate from.

Times have changed since DSA originally opened. The prospect of Airtours never materialised but they didnít survive anyway, Thompson Fly offered a low cost opportunity only to die in favour of IT operations, but alone Thompson/ TUI didnít base the numbers needed, Ryanair played DSA against LBA and LBA won, Easyjet offered City flights to an immature market on W patterns with bad timings and worst of all an up and coming low cost airline chose LBA as a base (and letís face it without Jet2 LBA would be in trouble).

Had the realisation that 4 based aircraft was never going to bring in the profitable pax numbers hit home in 2008 then DSA might have been in a different situation.

The market that brings volume revenue to the regional airports (med flights) has shrunk in terms of operators who still exist. If one of the only players DSA did have on their side will not return then there is little chance of DSA bringing in the 4 million pax needed to achieve profitable operation.
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Old 18th Mar 2023, 16:34
  #1095 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by G-FORZ
And yet Wizz have only 2 arrivals today and none tomorrow at LBA, not the same operation they had at DSA. Perhaps they have taken the opportunity to consolidate flights between the airports they can operate from.

Times have changed since DSA originally opened. The prospect of Airtours never materialised but they didnít survive anyway, Thompson Fly offered a low cost opportunity only to die in favour of IT operations, but alone Thompson/ TUI didnít base the numbers needed, Ryanair played DSA against LBA and LBA won, Easyjet offered City flights to an immature market on W patterns with bad timings and worst of all an up and coming low cost airline chose LBA as a base (and letís face it without Jet2 LBA would be in trouble).

Had the realisation that 4 based aircraft was never going to bring in the profitable pax numbers hit home in 2008 then DSA might have been in a different situation.

The market that brings volume revenue to the regional airports (med flights) has shrunk in terms of operators who still exist. If one of the only players DSA did have on their side will not return then there is little chance of DSA bringing in the 4 million pax needed to achieve profitable operation.
Leeds has always strong armed the Yorkshire market. Jet2 will have been aware of the imminent opening of Doncaster but shunned it regardless (there are many reasons for this), easyJet had thrown all support behind Peel ahead of DSA opening but as it happened never followed through with committing. You blame poor flight times, but if they saw a viable base they would have put 3 aircraft in and acquired the slots to provide better flight times, truth is this was a sweetener deal to Peel after basing yet more aircraft at MAN therefore curtailing expansion at LPL.

Not sure what you are referring to that happened in 2008? They had persistently attempted to attract other airlines but they were not interested. They offered KLM a good deal to relocate from Humberside which was rebuffed.

No point in focussing on the airlines that have now gone, it was always going to happen as the market matured. Alas the predictions over the airport highlighted during the public enquiry of 2002/3 have come to pass - and like you say, they cannot justify reopening the facility in the hope that only TUI will return. easyJet are likely to expand at LBA when there is sufficient room for them to do so.
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Old 18th Mar 2023, 22:38
  #1096 (permalink)  
 
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Post CPO Perhaps the only viable future for DSA would be a MAG buyout, Peel would hate it but so would AMP - that way MAN and EMA arenít losers and their pull over FR/TUI/U2 sort of fits with any prospective growth, even LS would surely want to pick up some of that TUI market they had to themselves (yep I get market dilution with EMA and LBA but EMA and BHX survive together). DSAís not dead until the terminal comes down and the runway is dug up.
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Old 18th Mar 2023, 23:21
  #1097 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by G-FORZ
Post CPO Perhaps the only viable future for DSA would be a MAG buyout, Peel would hate it but so would AMP - that way MAN and EMA arenít losers and their pull over FR/TUI/U2 sort of fits with any prospective growth, even LS would surely want to pick up some of that TUI market they had to themselves (yep I get market dilution with EMA and LBA but EMA and BHX survive together). DSAís not dead until the terminal comes down and the runway is dug up.
Why would MAG buy it? They assessed the site in the late 90ís and determined that it would not be viable so purchased HUY (and later EMA) instead. Itís not about Ďpullí over anything, these airlines fly from MAN LBA EMA because itís where the passengers are, itís really that simple. EMA and BHX survive together because they are both in densely populated areas, 75% of DSA catchment area is rural, the largest conurbation is within easy(ish) reach of competition, people still make the journey to those airports in sufficient numbers that airlines do not need to take the risk and shoulder the costs of opening a base at DSA to compete with themselves. This is compounded by the lacklustre support some of the airlines garnered when they dipped their toes in at DSA. I can quite confidently state that Jet2 have never and would never want to operate passenger services from DSA. There will always be the issue of insufficient demand regardless of who may own it. Youíre talking about a CPO as if itís likely to happen, I would be confident to suggest that the odds are heavily stacked against it getting far, even less chance of actually having someone wanting to purchase it and operate it should a CPO be successful.

One of the key determinants in the granting of a CPO (or not) is viability. The authority pushing for a CPO must prove, with recent evidence, that the scheme they intend for the land upon which they wish to purchase is viable. If they cannot do this, or there is evidence to the contrary, then the CPO will be rejected. Peel will have the evidence and this will be backed up by PWC and York Aviation. Another is finance, can DMBC/SYMCA prove they have the necessary capital to purchase DSA?

The only interested party that have made Peel an acceptable offer have been unable to provide Peel with the information they require to be able take the offer seriously. The other two parties that showed interest initially quickly backed out.

Last edited by pug; 18th Mar 2023 at 23:59.
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Old 21st Mar 2023, 13:28
  #1098 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by G-FORZ
Post CPO Perhaps the only viable future for DSA would be a MAG buyout, Peel would hate it but so would AMP - that way MAN and EMA arenít losers and their pull over FR/TUI/U2 sort of fits with any prospective growth, even LS would surely want to pick up some of that TUI market they had to themselves (yep I get market dilution with EMA and LBA but EMA and BHX survive together). DSAís not dead until the terminal comes down and the runway is dug up.
Pug has essentially covered it, but there's zero chance MAG would be interested in buying DSA. Their strategy is geared around investing to develop business at MAN and STN (with a reasonable sideline in cargo at EMA) to increase revenue and profit. They are not then going to chuck that profit away by purchasing an airport which would almost certainly be a money pit for them.
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Old 21st Mar 2023, 14:50
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Pretty sure the CMA would have something to say about MAG owning MAN, EMA and then DSA too!
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Old 21st Mar 2023, 20:29
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https://aviationsourcenews.com/gener...field-airport/
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