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Doncaster Sheffield-3

Old 15th Jan 2023, 11:12
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
EMA and MAN have significant public sector ownership, as do many other UK airports some of which are being supported with your money. At least one potential rival has received a further central government grant announced this week.
MAG is a commercial business owned by local authorities. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't believe their owners have given MAN or EMA a blank cheque.
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Old 15th Jan 2023, 11:18
  #1002 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
This is the only scenario I can see working, but where on earth would you find an operator that could attract that level of based a/c. You're talking a Leeds/Newcastle sized operation
Isnít this the crux of the problem? There is a widely held belief that Peel have deterred growth through uncompetitive pricing and by generally being disinterested in any growth opportunities. The evidence that is available to the public suggests this is the opposite of reality, and despite offering substantial starting subsidies and ongoing competitive rates and marketing support, the airport was unable to attract enough airlines and freight business to grow sustainably. This is as true for the airlines that did try like easyjet, Ryanair and FlyBe as it is for KLM and Jet2 who could never be attracted in spite of such offers.

LBA despite its well known operational limitations has taken the market that Doncaster would need to become a success, as has East Midlands to the south and of course to most people in Sheffield travelling to Manchester is just something theyíve always done and continue to do.

Unless the airlines and freight operators can be convinced that consolidating all operations at Doncaster at the expense of LBA and EMA is they way forwards then there really is no future in volume traffic from DSA. The fact that Doncaster doesnít fit in to any easyjet growth strategy even though they have no base now between Luton and Edinburgh on this side of the country highlights the disappointing reality.
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Old 15th Jan 2023, 11:55
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
MAG is a commercial business owned by local authorities. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't believe their owners have given MAN or EMA a blank cheque.
Nobody else has mentioned blank cheques, just pointing out that MAG airports couldn't object to a publically owned, commercially run competitor airport.
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Old 15th Jan 2023, 16:52
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In fairness to MAG, I can't recall any instance of them objecting to financial support for competing airports. And prior to the pandemic - which was exceptional for the entire industry - the local authorities in Greater Manchester routinely budgeted for receipt of a substantial annual dividend from MAG which they then used to pay for council commitments. The airport operator provided financial support to the local authority owners, not the other way around.

MAG did receive funds during the pandemic, but they will be expected to repay these as business recovers back to normal levels, and the owners will doubtless look forward to a resumption of generous dividend payments down the line.
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Old 15th Jan 2023, 21:22
  #1005 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
Nobody else has mentioned blank cheques, just pointing out that MAG airports couldn't object to a publically owned, commercially run competitor airport.
I donít think there is appetite to provide anyone with a blank cheque to reopen DSA? I also donít believe that the Council have any intention to but it and run it. There is very little to go off in the public domain apart from the weekly announcements by Ros Jones. It is not clear whether Peel and interested private sector investors are still discussing this, as that is all subject to NDA. The fact that this wasnít mentioned in the most recent update by Ros Jones makes me think that talks have not advanced. This is just a preemptive measure to help their cause in a CPO.

Last edited by pug; 16th Jan 2023 at 07:05.
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Old 16th Jan 2023, 07:40
  #1006 (permalink)  
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There is zero chance of the council buying anything.
They don't even have enough funds to change the road signs from Town Centre to City Centre
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Old 16th Jan 2023, 10:03
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Originally Posted by TimmyW View Post
There is zero chance of the council buying anything.
They don't even have enough funds to change the road signs from Town Centre to City Centre
I suspect that changing such signs is low priority - plenty would criticise it as unnecessary spending.

Capital spending to maintain the presence of regional significant infrastructure is a different ballgame.
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Old 16th Jan 2023, 11:06
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Originally Posted by Airbanda View Post
I suspect that changing such signs is low priority - plenty would criticise it as unnecessary spending.

Capital spending to maintain the presence of regional significant infrastructure is a different ballgame.
It was costed in to the city status bid.

Either way, they won't have the funds to take on any aspect of the airport.
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Old 17th Jan 2023, 08:17
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" regional significant infrastructure "

Well that depends on how you define the Region - W Riding has an (just) vialable airport at Leeds, North has a major international airport at Manchester

If you mean "cottage industry" then yes Doncaster might creep onto the spreadsheet
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Old 17th Jan 2023, 19:43
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https://www.cms-lawnow.com/ealerts/2...ure?cc_lang=en
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Old 21st Jan 2023, 19:14
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Ominously quiet from the DMBC mayor this week, only update seems to have been from Nick Fletcher MP. Baroness Vere updated him, no progress with talks apparently. Opposition council in Doncaster have asked for costs of the proposed leasehold and the Finance Cabinet member remained quiet.

Apparently Peel have had visitors from other airports this week looking to purchase various fixtures, fittings and equipment.
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Old 23rd Jan 2023, 04:26
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As I said before there is zero chance of the council taking over the lease of the site.

They have no funds. Oliver Coppard has said this week he's no longer involved in trying to save it, so there will no funds forthcoming from his pot.

I'm guessing this will quietly fizzle out. I also doubt the council will press ahead with a CPO.

Locally, other than the numpty car garage owner and his disciples who seems to think Doncaster has the ability to emulate Heathrow, everyone else has forgotten about the place already.

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Old 23rd Jan 2023, 07:49
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Originally Posted by TimmyW View Post
As I said before there is zero chance of the council taking over the lease of the site.

They have no funds. Oliver Coppard has said this week he's no longer involved in trying to save it, so there will no funds forthcoming from his pot.

I'm guessing this will quietly fizzle out. I also doubt the council will press ahead with a CPO.

Locally, other than the numpty car garage owner and his disciples who seems to think Doncaster has the ability to emulate Heathrow, everyone else has forgotten about the place already.
Find myself agreeing. Apparently someone who knows Ros Jones very well has confirmed she is playing to the crowd and DMBC will absolutely not be entertaining the offer of a leasehold on the site. However, Peel have approached Sheffield Uni and AMRC with a view to developing an advanced tech park but have been rebuffed by both due to Ďlack of sufficiently skilled workforceí in Doncaster. Could make Peel have a change of heart on their stance to not sell the airport? Or they could just build houses and warehousing.
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Old 23rd Jan 2023, 09:15
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The first alternative means pouring money into a proven Black Hole, the second means a slightly reduced massive amount of profit - guess..................
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Old 23rd Jan 2023, 09:48
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High skilled, well paid jobs and Doncaster will never come into the same sentence, the idea that Peel will bring these to the site is just nonsense to try and soften the blow. The site will remain empty until 2035, then planning permission granted for houses/warehousing etc.
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Old 25th Jan 2023, 07:38
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Originally Posted by TimmyW View Post
High skilled, well paid jobs and Doncaster will never come into the same sentence, the idea that Peel will bring these to the site is just nonsense to try and soften the blow. The site will remain empty until 2035, then planning permission granted for houses/warehousing etc.
They will get their change of use before then. 2 years distant airport will be gone with no prospect of it coming back. Peel will then start campaigning for reallocation. Because it's previously developed land capable of providing homes and hosting employment businesses. Council may try and resist, but its hard to see by then how they can maintain it should only be used as aviation land (with no airport or use). Throw in some expensive court work and specialist planning Counsel, its only going one way.
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Old 25th Jan 2023, 20:49
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Originally Posted by davidjpowell View Post
They will get their change of use before then. 2 years distant airport will be gone with no prospect of it coming back. Peel will then start campaigning for reallocation. Because it's previously developed land capable of providing homes and hosting employment businesses. Council may try and resist, but itís hard to see by then how they can maintain it should only be used as aviation land (with no airport or use). Throw in some expensive court work and specialist planning Counsel, itís only going one way.
Unless Peel do sell it to someone who knows how to operate airports. Itís the only way the place will reopen now. With the flogging off of equipment though, it seems highly unlikely to be heading that way.

DSASPOTTER, if you want a reply you need to clear your inbox.
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Old 25th Jan 2023, 21:57
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Originally Posted by pug View Post
Unless Peel do sell it to someone who knows how to operate airports. Itís the only way the place will reopen now. With the flogging off of equipment though, it seems highly unlikely to be heading that way.

DSASPOTTER, if you want a reply you need to clear your inbox.
I thought the ILS antennas had been taken down, but checked this morning. Still there.

If it's stuff like fire engines that they are flogging (which is what I read), then a) Peel would look to sell them to whoever operates the airport I am sure and b) if they have flogged them, then I'm sure they are available elsewhere.

I don't see this is a major issue myself. It's more a sign of the intent I suppose.
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Old 26th Jan 2023, 00:51
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Is the Vulcan still there & if so , what will happen to it?
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Old 26th Jan 2023, 09:03
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Originally Posted by Flugzeug A View Post
Is the Vulcan still there & if so , what will happen to it?
Yep. Cut up and trucked off site.
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