Doncaster Sheffield-3

[wowzz]

Originally Posted by egcntristar

Its shutting the Balby Carr warehouse which is further away from the airport than the other two huge warehouses at the Iport. They don't need three when two will do the job.

N707ZS, the Citation Centre shut I'm led to believe as Textron had enough capacity to handle business elsewhere for Europe. Should have stayed independent as Kinch...

Thanks for the correction regarding the Balby Carr warehouse. Shows I should never believe what the Daily Mail prints, complete with pictures of the Iport warehouse.

[N707ZS]

Thanks egcntristar. Just wondering how long ago Peel had started to close the airport. The previous airport director at Teesside once told me and a group of how he had been instructed by Peel management to slow down operation.

[Asturias56]

probably when they;d spent £ 249 million quid on it

[Harold77]

Originally Posted by N707ZS

Thanks egcntristar. Just wondering how long ago Peel had started to close the airport. The previous airport director at Teesside once told me and a group of how he had been instructed by Peel management to slow down operation.

I heard the same sort of thing.

Probably 10 years ago. I remember being told that Doncaster will close sometime in the future if it doesn't start bringing in the money.

[SWBKCB]

Originally Posted by N707ZS

Thanks egcntristar. Just wondering how long ago Peel had started to close the airport. The previous airport director at Teesside once told me and a group of how he had been instructed by Peel management to slow down operation.

What an odd thing to say - wonder what his motivation could have been?

[pug]

Originally Posted by Asturias56

probably when they;d spent £ 249 million quid on it

When Wizzair pulled out. My theory being that soon as they started backtracking on the number of based aircraft they were probably subject to minimum passenger/seat clause to claim fee rebates such is the way commercial agreements tend to work,

Peel have been quite clear in their Strategic Review that they have knocked on all available doors and have not been able to attract/retain the volume carriers required to reach critical mass, this we already know. I think Wizz were the last roll of the dice. They had completed a CAPEX within the last year for the added air bridge gates, clearly in anticipation for the growth from Wizz that didn’t materialise. Closure was never their Plan A.

[pug]

Further update from the Doncaster Mayor. Apparently they had approached Peel with a view of purchasing the freehold of the land, this had been rejected by Peel but they are open to selling the leasehold to the council.

Does this suggest talks with the private sector have stalled? Seems a very precarious position for the council to put themselves in, presumably Peel see no issue with the council running it for a while and if they find the same as Peel (that it’s a money pit) they may then be more open to exploring other uses for the site down the line.

Expect the sticking point here is Peel being unwilling to sell the land. Perhaps why the private sector interest hasn’t apparently come to fruition.

Saying all this, reading between the lines a bit it would appear this is part of the groundwork for the CPO and the challenge from Peel. Council offer to buy, Peel offer goodwill and make the leasehold available. Most logical explanation is that this is a game of brinksmanship ahead of further legal challenges.

[Asturias56]

"ahead of further legal challenges."

and what might they be? No-one seems to wnat to run an airport , other than the Council. Peel own the land - I can't see what challenges there could be.

[pug]

Originally Posted by Asturias56

"ahead of further legal challenges."

and what might they be? No-one seems to wnat to run an airport , other than the Council. Peel own the land - I can't see what challenges there could be.

The CPO I believe. Ros Jones has unanimous support from full council and the public and businesses apparently. So what they’re doing here is making reasonable approaches to Peel to attempt to purchase the land/leasehold prior to pursuing the CPO. Peel have matched them with the offer of a sale of the leasehold which shows good will from them should a CPO process be initiated. No mention of the private sector this time.

[Asturias56]

have you any idea how long it will take to execute a CPO against a company that fights it? years

[SWBKCB]

Ros Jones has unanimous support from full council and the public and businesses apparently.

And how much money?

[pug]

Originally Posted by Asturias56

have you any idea how long it will take to execute a CPO against a company that fights it? years

Yes, at least 2 years at great expense to the Council who are probably cash strapped like most local authorities and probably don’t have enough experience to run a bath let alone an airport.

My point is this is a box ticking exercise to satisfy the pre-requisite for CPO, and Peel have countered it by offering the leasehold for sale as a show of goodwill again which will be used against the council should they set the CPO in motion. It may also prove during any legal proceedings that Peel had offered the leasehold and the council didn’t take that offer and therefore solidifies their findings that the airport is not a viable business.

Brinkmanship is all, I’m in complete agreement with you Asturias56.

Originally Posted by SWBKCB

And how much money?

£1.1million in legal fees and associated admin costs assuming they are successful. Then whatever is deemed the value of the land with compensation to the owner of the freehold (Peel). Way beyond the scope of DMBC.

[ZeBedie]

Is it possible that this is just a mayor trying to make himself look strong and proactive in the eyes of voters, when in fact, he knows it's going nowhere? If so, I guess that'll become apparent as soon as substantial cash input is required!

[davidjpowell]

Our mayor is a grey-haired granny. But she's Labour so going nowhere and does not have to worry about things like credibility, or competence. Hopefully, she is getting good advice from someone.

The Leasehold is quite a clever move. While I'm not sure what rent is attached, it does mean that if it fails as Peel seem to expect they then get the land back to develop, and the planners objections will likely be far reduced given another commercial attempt to run the airport.

[Asturias56]

"The Leasehold is quite a clever move. While I'm not sure what rent is attached, it does mean that if it fails as Peel seem to expect they then get the land back to develop, and the planners objections will likely be far reduced given another commercial attempt to run the airport"

Yes - basically they're saying we'll lease it to you IF you only want to run an airport but you can't do anything else - like fail and turn it into a business park- 'cos that's our plan

I can't see many takers on that basis

[G-FORZ]

In a DMBC lease ownership situation, are there any successful Airport Operators out there that could manage but not own the site? I suspect DMBC themselves would be out of their depth to attract any further business than the airport has enjoyed over the last 17 years. A ready made professional team would be preferable to know how to attract the airlines that would base in the 15+ airframe numbers that would see the airport keeping its head above water.

[davidjohnson6]

Is the council seriously intending to revive the airport with all the financial risk associated with such a project... or are they just going through the motions so they can say to voters "we tried but the evil courts didn't care about the views of the people" ?

[ATNotts]

As a tax payer I would be extremely disappointed if a penny of my money was frittered on savings a clearly unviable business especially given the dire situation of public finances. If I were the owner of airports such as EMA, MAN and LBA I would be similarly dischuffed at the idea of a competitor airport being baled out with public money.

[SWBKCB]

Originally Posted by ATNotts

As a tax payer I would be extremely disappointed if a penny of my money was frittered on savings a clearly unviable business especially given the dire situation of public finances. If I were the owner of airports such as EMA, MAN and LBA I would be similarly dischuffed at the idea of a competitor airport being baled out with public money.

EMA and MAN have significant public sector ownership, as do many other UK airports some of which are being supported with your money. At least one potential rival has received a further central government grant announced this week.

[SWBKCB]

Originally Posted by G-FORZ

In a DMBC lease ownership situation, are there any successful Airport Operators out there that could manage but not own the site? I suspect DMBC themselves would be out of their depth to attract any further business than the airport has enjoyed over the last 17 years. A ready made professional team would be preferable to know how to attract the airlines that would base in the 15+ airframe numbers that would see the airport keeping its head above water.

This is the only scenario I can see working, but where on earth would you find an operator that could attract that level of based a/c. You're talking a Leeds/Newcastle sized operation