Southampton-3
Well I never ! BACF is doing OK then from LCY on it's sun routes, although this is the last weekend and inbounds of the summer season for most of the Med.
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MARKEYD
BA will certainly have to do much better in 2022 at SOU if they are to continue there. Maybe there just isn't the demand for the operation,given Bournemouth Sun route operation.
One thing is sure SOU needs to up there game in attracting more routes and airlines to return to profitability.
BA will certainly have to do much better in 2022 at SOU if they are to continue there. Maybe there just isn't the demand for the operation,given Bournemouth Sun route operation.
One thing is sure SOU needs to up there game in attracting more routes and airlines to return to profitability.
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All things given SOU has done a fantastic job of attracting operators and routes. Given they were so reliant on Flybe and have managed to attract BA plus the others. Who else is there realistically for SOU to attract?
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Quite right, the airport has recovered brilliantly from BE/Covid and not much more could be expected at this point, maybe a Paris & Frankfurt connection and some winter sun to ALC/AGP etc but all other major routes have been re-instated at frequencies dictated to by current demand. Cup again is half empty with RW20!
Some airline and Tour Operator integration would be a huge start for certainly the BA routes.
I do note that TUI took seats this summer from BA on the PMI flight for Mallorca Package Holidays (not sure if that was an allocation, or just buying in ad-hoc) as TUI had long cancelled it's own summer series from SOU to PMI, IBZ and MAH using Volotea charters.
TUI's charters SOU-PMI was, prev-covid, for a twice weekly A319, 150 seats.
If BA and TUI crunch numbers amicably (with big boys pants on) then TUI can easily fill a sizeable allocation to any of those destinations;
plus, TUI could also offer holidays to the Algarve (FAO) and Costa del Sol (AGP) using the BA SOU flights.
I do not think for one moment that it messes with TUI's BOH or EXT series - SOU has enough catchment of it's own.
Mykonos is very niche, and does really well from LCY (and LHR BA mainline) even in Club Europe cabins, but for TUI accommodation there is way too expensive for TUI to try to sell it as a package; even TUI's own LGW and MAN-JMK series' was dropped yonks ago.
Easy Jet have a huge JMK market from LGW and LTN, along with Santorini too.
Santorini also does really well for BACF and BA from both LCY and LHR, also with TUI flying from LGW and BRS with a weekly TUI 757 or 737M-8.
I think Corfu from SOU would fare much better from SOU than JMK ever can.
There are mass and upmarket niche and mainstream Greek Tour Operators that feature family and also high-end villa and hotel holidays in Corfu and Paxos and SOU is well placed as an alternative to the LON or BRS airports.
It has to be said that the Skiathos series from SOU was pathetic in 2018, again due to no Tour Operator integrations which confounds my feelings about SOU and the way now to go forward.
SOU-JSI with an A319 was canned in 2019 with 2000 seats sold...Was that true?
One route sorely missing from SOU is Verona, it was really popular with Inghams and Crystal Holidays selling Lake and Mountains hotel packages, and coach tours.
Inghams used to take whole plane allocations on a WEDS and SAT with Flybe.
Salzburg could do well too, again this has a WED and SAT turn round day for Tour Operators to Austria's Tyrol.
BACF's aircraft are sized perfectly for these two routes and also Corfu.
If anyone wants to employ me (sic) haha lol I really could get the Tour Operators on-board, but seriously though, [i][b]no one seems to be doing it.
Folk are gagging to book but need to be aware of what's on offer and what/where can be offered from SOU.
Travel Agents and Tour Operators must be on-board.
Domestic routes out of SOU have been hard and slow so far to gain momentum again, as is AMS FRA DUB and CDG - so maybe the Sun and Lakes leisure markets is the way to go.
Best all for a good weekend - the last one of the historic summer holiday charter series season.
I do note that TUI took seats this summer from BA on the PMI flight for Mallorca Package Holidays (not sure if that was an allocation, or just buying in ad-hoc) as TUI had long cancelled it's own summer series from SOU to PMI, IBZ and MAH using Volotea charters.
TUI's charters SOU-PMI was, prev-covid, for a twice weekly A319, 150 seats.
If BA and TUI crunch numbers amicably (with big boys pants on) then TUI can easily fill a sizeable allocation to any of those destinations;
plus, TUI could also offer holidays to the Algarve (FAO) and Costa del Sol (AGP) using the BA SOU flights.
I do not think for one moment that it messes with TUI's BOH or EXT series - SOU has enough catchment of it's own.
Mykonos is very niche, and does really well from LCY (and LHR BA mainline) even in Club Europe cabins, but for TUI accommodation there is way too expensive for TUI to try to sell it as a package; even TUI's own LGW and MAN-JMK series' was dropped yonks ago.
Easy Jet have a huge JMK market from LGW and LTN, along with Santorini too.
Santorini also does really well for BACF and BA from both LCY and LHR, also with TUI flying from LGW and BRS with a weekly TUI 757 or 737M-8.
I think Corfu from SOU would fare much better from SOU than JMK ever can.
There are mass and upmarket niche and mainstream Greek Tour Operators that feature family and also high-end villa and hotel holidays in Corfu and Paxos and SOU is well placed as an alternative to the LON or BRS airports.
It has to be said that the Skiathos series from SOU was pathetic in 2018, again due to no Tour Operator integrations which confounds my feelings about SOU and the way now to go forward.
SOU-JSI with an A319 was canned in 2019 with 2000 seats sold...Was that true?
One route sorely missing from SOU is Verona, it was really popular with Inghams and Crystal Holidays selling Lake and Mountains hotel packages, and coach tours.
Inghams used to take whole plane allocations on a WEDS and SAT with Flybe.
Salzburg could do well too, again this has a WED and SAT turn round day for Tour Operators to Austria's Tyrol.
BACF's aircraft are sized perfectly for these two routes and also Corfu.
If anyone wants to employ me (sic) haha lol I really could get the Tour Operators on-board, but seriously though, [i][b]no one seems to be doing it.
Folk are gagging to book but need to be aware of what's on offer and what/where can be offered from SOU.
Travel Agents and Tour Operators must be on-board.
Domestic routes out of SOU have been hard and slow so far to gain momentum again, as is AMS FRA DUB and CDG - so maybe the Sun and Lakes leisure markets is the way to go.
Best all for a good weekend - the last one of the historic summer holiday charter series season.
Last edited by rog747; 30th Oct 2021 at 13:23. Reason: lots to add sorry
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Lots of speculation,but the reality is that the airport is not a Sun airport ,but has a niche in the domestic routes,can these sustain the airport?
The runway extension is the lifeline,given that it can then complete better with nearby Sun airports
The runway extension is the lifeline,given that it can then complete better with nearby Sun airports
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I would imagine one reason for the routes chosen was because they already operate from LCY so it probably made it easier to add more. Alicante was a route not served from LCY and seemed to do well so maybe that will inspire them. But don’t forget it’s been a year with a pandemic and constantly changing travel rules and regulations. For what they have managed is pretty decent. Exeter or Southend for example have added very few routes.
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with respect Southend was just an overspil airport pre covid,and Exeter is constrained by Bristol,yes SOU has fared reasonably well in the pandamic,but it's limited runway and stands is a problem .The airport needs maximum publicity and development to take it on from post civic restrictions.
Does it mean that T3 (Eastern Airways) has given up their BHD route (Belfast City Airport) ??
Their booking engine suggests otherwise, with 2 rotations (1 on J41) showing on various weekdays over the coming months
(the ATR flights routing via CWL appear to have been dropped, after only a few weeks)
Eastern (as demonstrated above) are known for their short-notice schedule changes!
(the ATR flights routing via CWL appear to have been dropped, after only a few weeks)
Eastern (as demonstrated above) are known for their short-notice schedule changes!
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Wycombe
Clearly there are over optimistic contributors to SOU threads,the runway extension appeals will drag on into 2022,at best given rejection of the appeals,the extension won't be ready to after the Summer season 2023.This alone gives Bournemouth and to a certain extent Exeter time to build on there already rapid recovery and increasing route structure. Bournemouth have shown that there is very good business with Easy to Scotland,and indeed could capitalise on opening a Amsterdam schedule .
Southampton management need to pull out all the stops on pushing BACF to the front,this is the airport short term lifeline,the domestic scene with 59-72 seaters isn't going to sustain great passenger growth.
Clearly there are over optimistic contributors to SOU threads,the runway extension appeals will drag on into 2022,at best given rejection of the appeals,the extension won't be ready to after the Summer season 2023.This alone gives Bournemouth and to a certain extent Exeter time to build on there already rapid recovery and increasing route structure. Bournemouth have shown that there is very good business with Easy to Scotland,and indeed could capitalise on opening a Amsterdam schedule .
Southampton management need to pull out all the stops on pushing BACF to the front,this is the airport short term lifeline,the domestic scene with 59-72 seaters isn't going to sustain great passenger growth.
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Just getting up to speed on this thread and developments on same. Couple of things stand out. Firstly, kudos to SOU for huge business development to try to fill the gaps left by Flybe's collapse.
Seems logical that BOH would try to draw all levers in any developments by SOU. They certainly have some good reason to be concerned. Any improvement in the runway infrastructure at SOU has the potential to reduce the price of poker. Giving Ryanair a bargaining chip opposite BOH can only drive fees and charges downwards. Moreover, while it is excellent to attract BACF, this is a mode of convenience for BACF until their corporate activity improves at LCY. While that segment is way behind and may never be as great as it is was, some competitors have to exited. They'll also find new business orientated routes as they broadly enjoy the lion's share of ops at LCY. No reason why SOU can't gain weekend ops to compliment BACFs LCY ops. BA will be keeping a watchful eye on corporate activity and nobody really knows what that will look like in the Spring.
When SOU extend the runway a low cost operator is the obvious addition at volume. If it's not easyJet, it'll likely be Wizz. Given easyJet scale at LGW, they may like to have the SOU business and deter others. Once competition kicks off it will be make or break for BOH. In my estimation, both SOU and BOH are primarily supported by the local market for their business and less inbound traffic. SOU has the big ticket items of cruise, a significant freight port and the city has a larger population than BOH. So for all these reasons, if SOU can accept the aircraft it would be the preferred local airport.
Seems logical that BOH would try to draw all levers in any developments by SOU. They certainly have some good reason to be concerned. Any improvement in the runway infrastructure at SOU has the potential to reduce the price of poker. Giving Ryanair a bargaining chip opposite BOH can only drive fees and charges downwards. Moreover, while it is excellent to attract BACF, this is a mode of convenience for BACF until their corporate activity improves at LCY. While that segment is way behind and may never be as great as it is was, some competitors have to exited. They'll also find new business orientated routes as they broadly enjoy the lion's share of ops at LCY. No reason why SOU can't gain weekend ops to compliment BACFs LCY ops. BA will be keeping a watchful eye on corporate activity and nobody really knows what that will look like in the Spring.
When SOU extend the runway a low cost operator is the obvious addition at volume. If it's not easyJet, it'll likely be Wizz. Given easyJet scale at LGW, they may like to have the SOU business and deter others. Once competition kicks off it will be make or break for BOH. In my estimation, both SOU and BOH are primarily supported by the local market for their business and less inbound traffic. SOU has the big ticket items of cruise, a significant freight port and the city has a larger population than BOH. So for all these reasons, if SOU can accept the aircraft it would be the preferred local airport.
Last edited by EI-BUD; 31st Oct 2021 at 22:49.
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Southampton and Bournemouth catchments when combined are big enough to warrant a major regional airport. However, the reason they currently do not have a 5 mppa airport on the doorstep is threefold: 1) Bournemouth airport is positioned too far from the main urban areas so will never be able to support high frequency regional connections, 2) Southampton airport is space restricted both runway and apron and can't (currently) offer adequate LCC operations, 3) both locations are close to Heathrow and Gatwick, but Southampton is very close - in fact it's closer to LHR than other other regional airport in the UK at just 60 miles.
The future for SOU especially post pandemic (not over yet!) is going to have to be LCC with improved runway length and additional apron space in order to address all 3 points above.
Till then it's status quo.
The future for SOU especially post pandemic (not over yet!) is going to have to be LCC with improved runway length and additional apron space in order to address all 3 points above.
Till then it's status quo.
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Southampton/Eastleigh has always been - and will always primarily remain - a business airport for Hampshire and border areas of neighbouring counties and lifeline link to the Channel Islands, with the occasional seasonal leisure flight. It doesn’t need to be anything else because the area is very well catered for by London airports and larger charters from Bournemouth. The status quo is just fine, as it has been for decades.
RW20
Not sure why you're making points directly to me (maybe hoping to influence?), but as you have my thoughts are as follows....
- I don't think any of us know the exact timescales for the runway extension, but (assuming legal obstacles are overcome) I agree it seems unlikely it will be done in 2022
- I'm not sure where you see "rapid recovery and increasing route structure" at BOH and EXT? Looking at today's schedules as an example, SOU has 24 inbound and outbound scheduled airline movements. BOH has 3 and EXT has 5. I can't see that changing much through the Winter (there will be some ski flights at SOU and BOH, as we know, but nothing very much different to pre-Covid times, apart from BA doing some of what Flybe did (eg, CMF, SZG) at SOU.
- Yes, 2 of the 3 EZY routes that ran from BOH during the Summer did ok, but they are seasonal, and as people switch back to more foreign travel next year, may not do so well.
- SOU is mainly about high-frequency "business oriented" schedules on its key routes (eg, today there are 4 LOG rotations to both EDI and GLA), and will always be a better choice than BOH for these, due to the latter's location and inferior connectivity. Frequency to AMS (and others) will no doubt increase as demand dictates. Who do you think would operate an AMS route from BOH?
- Agree it would be great to see CFE do more from SOU, but the reality is that their honey-pot is LCY (which seems to be recovering quite well) and I'm sure they will have all their fleet back there as soon as it's commercially advantageous to do so.
As has been said many times, SOU and BOH are different animals, and have their own niches. I can't see this changing much. Even with the runway extension, SOU is not optimised for anything other than fairly small-scale low-cost ops. BOH has the space and runway to be so, but it's location doesn't work in it's favour.
Not sure why you're making points directly to me (maybe hoping to influence?), but as you have my thoughts are as follows....
- I don't think any of us know the exact timescales for the runway extension, but (assuming legal obstacles are overcome) I agree it seems unlikely it will be done in 2022
- I'm not sure where you see "rapid recovery and increasing route structure" at BOH and EXT? Looking at today's schedules as an example, SOU has 24 inbound and outbound scheduled airline movements. BOH has 3 and EXT has 5. I can't see that changing much through the Winter (there will be some ski flights at SOU and BOH, as we know, but nothing very much different to pre-Covid times, apart from BA doing some of what Flybe did (eg, CMF, SZG) at SOU.
- Yes, 2 of the 3 EZY routes that ran from BOH during the Summer did ok, but they are seasonal, and as people switch back to more foreign travel next year, may not do so well.
- SOU is mainly about high-frequency "business oriented" schedules on its key routes (eg, today there are 4 LOG rotations to both EDI and GLA), and will always be a better choice than BOH for these, due to the latter's location and inferior connectivity. Frequency to AMS (and others) will no doubt increase as demand dictates. Who do you think would operate an AMS route from BOH?
- Agree it would be great to see CFE do more from SOU, but the reality is that their honey-pot is LCY (which seems to be recovering quite well) and I'm sure they will have all their fleet back there as soon as it's commercially advantageous to do so.
As has been said many times, SOU and BOH are different animals, and have their own niches. I can't see this changing much. Even with the runway extension, SOU is not optimised for anything other than fairly small-scale low-cost ops. BOH has the space and runway to be so, but it's location doesn't work in it's favour.
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Unless LCY's weekend hours change CFE will always be looking to do something, somewhere other than LCY at the weekend. The regions, BRS, BHX and Manchester didn't really work due to crewing logistics so I think they will be prepared to do another season at Southampton at the weekends. I would be very surprised if SOU ever became anything other than a place for them for their planes to do some weekend flying.
