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Old 2nd Nov 2023, 15:17
  #701 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by davidjohnson6
Are there any plans for direct rapid public transport between CWL and Cardiff centre to be revived ?
Not direct. Current plan is the new-ish 905 connects with trains, the new trains are/will be level boarding and a big improvement.

Current time is 50 minutes from Cardiff Central to the airport, 57 minutes on the way back. Hourly, first arrival at 0700 though.
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Old 21st Nov 2023, 11:29
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The future of CWL

I have always been a massive supporter of CWL, and it will always be my go to airport.

However...

This is now getting very hard to justify, I can't remember the last time the airport had a major airline/route announcement?
plenty of routes being cut though.

We are down to one based airline,
FR dont seem overly enthusiastic (not that the airport should rely on them anyway, as they are not afraid to cut and run)
VY is a shadow of their former presence
Eastern ORY will be gone as soon as the contract runs out I'd imagine.
Let's face it, i don't think QR is coming back
WIZZ base flopped
We don't even get many cruise charters any more.
PR/Social media is shameful.

I know not all of this is CWLs fault, TCX,BEE, COVID etc but the airport needs to take some responsibility now too.

Plenty of airports have bounced back from the challenges but CWL seems to be getting worse and worse.

Really sad.
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Old 21st Nov 2023, 12:13
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Originally Posted by CWL757
I have always been a massive supporter of CWL, and it will always be my go to airport.

However...

This is now getting very hard to justify, I can't remember the last time the airport had a major airline/route announcement?
plenty of routes being cut though.

We are down to one based airline,
FR dont seem overly enthusiastic (not that the airport should rely on them anyway, as they are not afraid to cut and run)
VY is a shadow of their former presence
Eastern ORY will be gone as soon as the contract runs out I'd imagine.
Let's face it, i don't think QR is coming back
WIZZ base flopped
We don't even get many cruise charters any more.
PR/Social media is shameful.

I know not all of this is CWLs fault, TCX,BEE, COVID etc but the airport needs to take some responsibility now too.

Plenty of airports have bounced back from the challenges but CWL seems to be getting worse and worse.

Really sad.
In a previous role I was responsible for the relationships with airports for the tour operator I was working for - both to support the existing schedules and also for our own charter series.

CWL were always quite difficult to work with. Partly because of the public ownership which limited their scope of support and secondly, they were exceptionally demanding to the point of being pushy and rude and had it not have been for the large travel agent community in South Wales who supported us well, we actually would have probably pulled out. My team did not enjoy their interactions and on more than one occasion I had to step in and 'have a word'

This was in sharp contrast to every other airport relationship we had - including the big boys - where it was very collaborative



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Old 21st Nov 2023, 19:21
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Originally Posted by Derry321
In a previous role I was responsible for the relationships with airports for the tour operator I was working for - both to support the existing schedules and also for our own charter series.

CWL were always quite difficult to work with. Partly because of the public ownership which limited their scope of support and secondly, they were exceptionally demanding to the point of being pushy and rude and had it not have been for the large travel agent community in South Wales who supported us well, we actually would have probably pulled out. My team did not enjoy their interactions and on more than one occasion I had to step in and 'have a word'

This was in sharp contrast to every other airport relationship we had - including the big boys - where it was very collaborative
A sign of the current Airport MD failing? He has been at the Airport a very long time so has seen some of the positive introductions, QR, BE, Wizz, FR and TUI growth
QR and BE couldn't be helped, Wizz created their own mess, FR haven't shown any huge signs of growth, TUI have just replaced TCX capacity.
The question is, could management be doing better or have they tried every option? The above post seems to point to some kind of arrogance that CWL can ill afford to have.
On the flip side, how would CWL be performing currently if BE, QR, TCX and Wizz were still around?
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Old 21st Nov 2023, 19:24
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Originally Posted by CWL757
I know not all of this is CWLs fault, TCX,BEE, COVID etc but the airport needs to take some responsibility now too.

Plenty of airports have bounced back from the challenges but CWL seems to be getting worse and worse.

Really sad.
Indeed, it's a real shame to see things get worse at some regional airports, especially as CWL could/should be the main gateway airport for people to fly in/out of when visiting Wales.

BRS's post-COVID resurgence, choice of airlines/destinations and their £60m investment to build a public transport hub to help expand capacity will likely increase its appeal to those who choose to use it over CWL.

Just be thankful that CWL doesn't have an operator like Esken running it - they've made mediocre progress at SEN, but it's gotten worse at CAX and now they've voluntarily revoked the commercial passenger license.
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Old 21st Nov 2023, 20:47
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I do think a major reshuffle is needed at CWL, fresh faces, fresh ideas and a fresh approach to doing things.

I think the last major opportunity for CWL was Jet2, I don't know how much effort was put into that, but obviously that opportunity has come and gone.

With the A321LR and 737MAX8 now comfortably doing long haul, I fear that opportunity is now gone too.

So that leaves it to just encouraging but not relying on FR growth, working with BY, and hopefully attracting some EU carriers.
The lufthansa group seems set on BRS, As do a number of Turkish carriers.

We can live in hope that LS does a BY and opens a small base once BRS is at capacity...
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Old 21st Nov 2023, 21:28
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Their CEO is a pain in the arse to deal with. He's now lost his Aviation Dev Manager to SEN who is well respected by airlines and vastly experienced. SEN is now growing and CWL is dying on it's arse. I think there's a pattern there....
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Old 21st Nov 2023, 22:12
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Originally Posted by caaardiff
how would CWL be performing currently if BE, QR, TCX and Wizz were still around?
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but let's look at where we were... and how, in my opinion we would have been now.

TCX had started expanding their summer season from CWL to include Easter, it's possible wo could have had a based aircraft year round by now? - Not CWLs fault.

BEE had already closed their base, though I could have seen some key routes operating from other bases (EDI,BHD, possibly GLA) - Not CWLs fault they went bust, however they put all their eggs in one basket with BEE, CWL has a habit of doing that with failing airlines (How are we, BMIbaby?)

QR, it was too early to tell really. I don't think it would have been daily, and definitely still would have been a 788 route. They may have pulled out by now anyway to be honest. - Not really CWLs fault, there was good advertising and it was a great score for the airport. Sadly wrong time.

WUK- This could have had massive potential if WIZZ hadn't screwed up so royally. This failure was entirely the airlines fault, not helped by covid but that's no excuse. They could have had a decent base here by now.
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 10:59
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Originally Posted by davidjohnson6
Before Covid there was a reasonably good bus service with relatively few stops between CWL and Cardiff city centre. I'm struggling to find anything showing any suitable bus operating in 2023 - unless you count route 340 which seems to take over 1h20 and make many stops en route. Yes, I know the 340 also visits Rhoose and Barry rail stations, but bus and rail combo seems overly complicated for a relatively short journey. I'm guessing bus route 340 probably isn't really suitable with luggage by virtue of the number of stops.
Are there any plans for direct rapid public transport between CWL and Cardiff centre to be revived ?
There are between 7 and 9 daily movements at CWL nowadays - mostly with smaller aircraft -, with up to 3-4 hours between movements. So very difficult to justify a dedicated bus service, I suppose. If there is not a massive demand by people working on-site, there will be very lttle demand for the bus as most passengers will come and go by car.

I understand that the airport hotel is now a shelter for the homeless...
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 10:59
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Management team has needed a shake up for a while - SB is an issue.
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 11:31
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Originally Posted by virginblue
There are between 7 and 9 daily movements at CWL nowadays - mostly with smaller aircraft -, with up to 3-4 hours between movements. So very difficult to justify a dedicated bus service, I suppose. If there is not a massive demand by people working on-site, there will be very lttle demand for the bus as most passengers will come and go by car.

I understand that the airport hotel is now a shelter for the homeless...
The words "vicious circle" comes to mind here. Teesside also comes to mind as well

Is there a plan for a better bus service in summer when the airport is busier ?

Ten years ago, for every passenger at Cardiff, there were 6 passengers at Bristol or a ratio of 1:6. It's now 1:11 - deeply concerning. Teesside:Newcastle for reference has a ratio of 1:21
Regarding QR, BE, TCX and W6:
For a modest sized airport, if one airline leaves, it's just bad luck. If two airlines leave, maybe it's coincidence. If four leave and the others show little sign of growth... then there is very likely something going wrong and nobody with the desire and capability to fix it.

Last edited by davidjohnson6; 22nd Nov 2023 at 12:06.
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 12:06
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I guess it is simply a sign of the times. In larger aviation markets like France, Germany, Sweden or the UK more and more regional airports are losing services and some are even closing down for passenger ops (just read the other day that Quimper in France plans to surrender its licence). Regional airlines have more or less disappeared (the UK can consider itself lucky that they still have Loganair and Eastern), tour operators are consolidating their business at fewer and larger airports, LCCs are increasingly moving to first tier airports that would not have touched them 10, 15 years ago. Add to that more video-conferencing, eco-consciousness etc. and it is obvious that the golden days of commercial passenger aviation in the regions we witnessed between 1985 and 2005 are a thing of the past. It started with places like Tees-Side, Norwich, Humberside, Coventry, Blackpool and now the game is more or less up for places like Cardiff, Exeter, Doncaster or Southend. Survival of the fittest, I presume.
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 13:03
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Although I appreciate the point you're making, I am not sure many people would consider themselves still lucky to have Eastern Airways.
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 13:31
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Originally Posted by Albert Hall
Although I appreciate the point you're making, I am not sure many people would consider themselves still lucky to have Eastern Airways.
Having used the Eastern flight to ORY, I found the Eastern experience very good. Yes they started off with delays and cancellations but over the last months the service has been quite considerably good. When they first started the aircraft operated EMA-ORY-SOU-ORY-CWL-ORY-EMA, I believe now it just does EMA & CWL with SOU using their own aircraft.

The loads have also started to grow although not fantastic load factors. The AF codeshare is now showing on all flights, bookings can also be made with Eastern and also AF direct but alas AF connections at ORY are dwindling. CDG would be a better choice but we all know they are operating ORY on behalf of AF so we have to make do with what we have for now.

France also playing Wales in the Six Nations at home should boost the passenger figures too…..as to how long Eastern will continue to operate for AF who knows but at least they plan to continue this winter season.
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 13:33
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I hear you. But it depends on the perspective. Ask ze Germans. Not a single regional airline left there. The last one has just thrown in the towel.

The one and only route left that can be considered a typical regional service is operated by a Danish airline.
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 14:19
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Originally Posted by virginblue
I hear you. But it depends on the perspective. Ask ze Germans. Not a single regional airline left there. The last one has just thrown in the towel.

The one and only route left that can be considered a typical regional service is operated by a Danish airline.
Germany is a somewhat different animal having a properly functioning rail network that interchanges almost seamlessly with the local bus and tram operations and a high speed rail network that the UK simply will never have, even more so since the HS2 debacle.

There remains a market for 'cross country' regional air services that a carrier more reliable than Eastern could develop, especially in regions such as South Wales and the SW of England.
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 14:28
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Originally Posted by TOM100
Management team has needed a shake up for a while - SB is an issue.
A look at the executive team makes me wonder what they are doing down there ?
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 15:21
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Originally Posted by ATNotts
Germany is a somewhat different animal having a properly functioning rail network that interchanges almost seamlessly with the local bus and tram operations and a high speed rail network that the UK simply will never have, even more so since the HS2 debacle.
Well, there are quite a few Germans who will take issue with the "properly functioning rail network" statement, particularly more recently.... The whole infrastructure is seriously underfunded and has been run into the ground. It is also a far cry from true HSR you will find in France or Spain. There are routes on which trains were quicker in the 1920s than they are today....
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 21:29
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Originally Posted by supermarine
A look at the executive team makes me wonder what they are doing down there ?
Kind of agree here, there has been zero news for CWL apart from Eastern/Air France back in March I believe. It would just be so nice to read something positive from CWL for once.

Good example is that there is whole array of Turkish airlines and Turkish airports that other “regional” airports in the U.K. are securing…..SunExpress, Corendon, Southwind all announcing routes but nothing for CWL. Turkey was always a popular choice for CWL so baffles how CWL has been snubbed or is it simply not been marketed correctly ??

Domestically they need EDI at least twice a day and also GLA & possibly NCL. Ideally Paris to be CDG not ORY (but at least better than nothing)….start small with tried & proven destinations….

Last edited by Letsflycwl; 29th Nov 2023 at 17:03.
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Old 29th Nov 2023, 14:34
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FR S24



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