Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.


Old 6th Apr 2021, 23:50
  #341 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Blighty
Posts: 4,382
Originally Posted by Buster the Bear View Post
DART is frankly an outrageous expenditure! More than £1m debt for every single borough resident!
Buster - when you write £1m, do you mean £1,000,000 or do you mean £1,000 ? I'm guessing most people interpret "m" next to a monetary amount to mean million and use "k" to mean thousand. I think however you are using m to mean thousand, not million

Last edited by davidjohnson6; 7th Apr 2021 at 03:30.
davidjohnson6 is offline  
Old 7th Apr 2021, 07:10
  #342 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In the sticks
Posts: 8,308
Debt per household for the DART is £3270 or £1140.56 per man, woman and child and remember hardly any Luton residents will actually use it. So much for a balanced budget. Never mind, buy your popcorn and pop up to Luton Airport as the Luton Airport Cinema experience opens on the 28th. Surprised the first film to be shown isn't the airport comedy Aeroplane or Snakes on a Plane staring the airport's councillor directors LOL. Every penny helps.

Last edited by LTNman; 7th Apr 2021 at 13:02.
LTNman is offline  
Old 7th Apr 2021, 07:42
  #343 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: EGGW
Posts: 2,075
Many years ago, has to be over 20 years plus, l was on holiday in one of the Canary Islands, think it was Gran Canaria and was due to depart back to the UK.
However the ground staff went on a 24 hour strike and because l was flying home on a B767 the containers could not be off loaded for the arriving pax.
So the flight was delayed till the next day and we were transferred to a very nice hotel, however they did not have rooms available other than those for families with young children.
However they had a cinema and put on a film for us to watch, which you guessed it was Airport, l kid you not.

Last edited by Mr @ Spotty M; 7th Apr 2021 at 07:57. Reason: Incorect film title
Mr @ Spotty M is offline  
Old 7th Apr 2021, 08:02
  #344 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Luton
Age: 72
Posts: 37
LTN man,
Snakes on a Plane, absolutely brilliant. 😂
keep the progress photos coming
Constructor is offline  
Old 7th Apr 2021, 08:22
  #345 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bedford, UK
Age: 67
Posts: 1,275
Thanks for the updates LTNman.
Mr Optimistic is offline  
Old 7th Apr 2021, 18:39
  #346 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Under the flight path
Posts: 2,386
Far more dangerous - Snakes in a Council Chamber!
LGS6753 is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2021, 23:27
  #347 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: UK & Estern Europe
Posts: 2
While you grumpy old men continue moaning from your CEO armchairs, the rest of us will celebrate some positive news for the airport, with Wizz Air launching some new routes.

Rzeszow - 3x weekly stating 22/9.
Antalya - 2x weekly starting 22/6.

At this rate the airport will be back at pre-pandemic levels in no time!

Can't the Luton thread be a bit more cheery and not so negative, unlike other ones on here? It just contantly seems to be about the management and council failings, how terrible it is people are travelling during COVID and the DART!

Personally I think the DART will be amazing, can't wait to get off my train and be whizzed up to the terminal by the state of the art monorail/train/thingymajig!
gdiddy is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2021, 09:14
  #348 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hemel Hempstead
Posts: 1,016
Lanzarote has been moved to Gatwick though.
toledoashley is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2021, 18:18
  #349 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Not so many places currently
Age: 57
Posts: 2,156
Maybe just added and back for W21?
pabely is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2021, 22:22
  #350 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: London Whipsnade Wildlife Park
Posts: 4,595


£1,000 debt for every Luton resident.

A typo written in absolute anger at the DART Folly!

Never mind Luton residents, the new concessionaire in 2032 will assume that and all the other stupid debt taken on to become the new Gatwick! Really? If not, that debt will have risen due inflation, or LBC will be charging each passenger a fair few tenners a ride!
Buster the Bear is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2021, 11:15
  #351 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Not so many places currently
Age: 57
Posts: 2,156
Not saying that the Debt is good or bad, but how much has every Luton Rate payer saved in £££ over the years in having the airport subsidise what they would have paid annually previously?
I paid in for 25 years, saved say £100 year =
pabely is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2021, 18:57
  #352 (permalink)  
Paxing All Over The World
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hertfordshire, UK.
Age: 64
Posts: 9,380
Not forgetting the employment. Whilst there may be fewer people employed now due to automation, but from 1952? A lot of people have been grateeful, especially as the other traditional employers wound down. Then all the constructions workers and those who supply food and materials? It is a very long list. It is impossible to reduce such a vast and long standing facility to a simple Plus and Minus.
PAXboy is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2021, 20:26
  #353 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Between the check-in desks
Posts: 230
I just love the comments from the airport employment experts. The truth is the airport is just a shadow of its former self when it comes to employment. Most of the higher paid jobs are now gone. Most of the hangars are now empty as are the majority of the office accommodation and business units as many companies were forced out of the airport by the airport owner. Hard to believe but it is true, they were kicked out.

The airport is now a low wage employment zone where costs are reduced by cutting wages.

Last edited by Spanish eyes; 17th Apr 2021 at 20:51.
Spanish eyes is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2021, 09:25
  #354 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In the sticks
Posts: 8,308
All is not well for the owner of the airport (LLAL / Luton Borough Council) as the accounts from April 1st 2019 to March 31st 2020 have still not been published and are shown as being overdue. The accounts will show record growth of 17.5m passengers and should show record income but the annual report and financial statement will have been written during the pandemic so what will the PW accountants be saying for future prospects regarding the company’s ability to continue as a going concern?

LLAL has no financial relationship with any bank or finance house with all debenture loans to LLAL coming from the Council, who in turn has had to be bailed out by the Government, as it is the worst performing Council in the UK.

On the other hand the airport operator (LLAOL) has already produced its annual report and financial statement but this time for the period 1st January 2020 to 31st December 2020 which makes for an interesting read.

While shareholders of LLAOL have committed to £13m of additional liquidity the Council has had to pump in an additional £68m to stop its own airport company going bankrupt so why would this be when it has no staff?

Despite passenger figures of 5.5m for 2020, since April 1st the airport operator has refused to pay any concession fees to the airport owner claiming Force Majeure, which the Council disputes. Fees are paid quarterly and in arrears. This has reduced the airport operators losses to just £13.5m on a turnover of £91.2m despite Covid. This has still allowed a dividend to be paid to its Spanish and Australian shareholders of £5m compared to £16.7m for 2019.

As for LLAL and the Council, they are left with no income while having to find the money for the Dart and are committed to pumping in an additional £168m over the next 5 years to cover mainly debts and bills. Council accounts have stated there will be no dividends from LLAL for at least the next 5 years and that is assuming they will still be the owners of LLAL after next year.

While it has been claimed the airport has been subsidising the residents of Luton it is still an uncomfortable fact that Luton has a band D tax bill that is higher than the national average despite the airport. For the last financial year the Council has borrowed £22m, which has been passed on to LLAL so LLAL can add it to their debts and that has allowed them to pay the £22m back to the Council to be used as Council income. So is that the plan for the next 5 years? Sounds like a form of ponzi scheme to me with the Council scamming itself or will the Council taxpayers be picking up the final bill?

Last edited by LTNman; 18th Apr 2021 at 09:45.
LTNman is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2021, 10:12
  #355 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Isle of Man
Posts: 36
Worth bookmarking these to read many of the posts here in full:
Manx is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2021, 11:04
  #356 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In the sticks
Posts: 8,308
The are at least 4 groups that have issues with Luton and its ability to give itself planning permission including, and and of course non Luton MP’s who act together.
LTNman is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2021, 12:45
  #357 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Hyperspace
Posts: 651
Spot on Spanish eyes......In my field, the well paid aircraft engineering sector is a mere shadow of its former self. The ex Monarch hangars are very unlikely to ever find any serious takers due to parking stand restrictions now in place which TUI have to deal with on a daily basis. LLA now consider maintenance as an annoyance when previously it was an important part of airport activity. As has been mentioned before, Gulfstream wanted to stay at LTN and build a new larger more suitable hangar but the airport declined due to the obsession with growth at any cost!
boeing_eng is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2021, 14:22
  #358 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: 41000ft
Posts: 56
In fairness, companies have been allowed longer to file accounts because of Covid19.

the airport operator has refused to pay any concession fees to the airport owner claiming Force Majeure, which the Council disputes

Aren't the council the only shareholder in LLAL? So, they're effectively arguing with themselves? Force Majeure seems a fair claim considering the pandemic. And when the Council's own leader, Cllr Simmons is on record as saying things like "I welcome the exceptional financial support that the Government has agreed to provide to Luton Council which recognises the catastrophic impact of covid-19 on our airport' and'we have been catastrophically impacted by the exceptional events of the past year” can the council really legitimately claim it isn't a force majeure situation?
cavokblues is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2021, 16:37
  #359 (permalink)  
Paxing All Over The World
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hertfordshire, UK.
Age: 64
Posts: 9,380
I agree that LLA has been 'growth at any cost' but then, so has every other company I have worked for and seen in the last 45 years! This approach escalated after the recession of 90/92 with the focus on stock market and mgmt bonus. I have seen no reduction in this attitude. They are just doing what everyone else has done. The fact that this inevitably leads to a BIG financial bust is not considered. Today's mgmt do not read history.
PAXboy is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2021, 20:03
  #360 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In the sticks
Posts: 8,308

No the Council is not arguing with itself as LLAOL is the private airport operator who pay concession fees to LLAL that is 100% owned by the Council. The concessionaire has in effect turned off the income stream to the Council’s airport company so LLAL is arguing with LLAOL. LLAOL are saying the Council doesn’t have a leg to stand.

LLAL have been caught in the perfect storm. They are committed to high expenditure while having a zero source of income. The claim is that the building of the Dart was the result of a planning permission condition for 18m passengers but the question then becomes if that was the case why is LLAOL not building the Dart as the concessionaire was meant to fund all the airports expansion projects as a condition of an extended franchise. The answer will be that the concessionaire could not see a way to make a profit out of it so the Council took on the project via LLAL.

If the Dart is not needed for 18m passengers, which it isn’t, as the airport reached 18m passengers without it, why is it even being built? While the shuttle bus was the airports big weak spot it did not stop the airport reaching its legal permitted limit.

From memory the expansion of the airport to 18m cost around £100m to add 6m passengers a year so shows a financial return. The Dart is costing £243m and doesn’t add a single passenger. The cost to the airport to get existing passengers from the station to the terminal is £0. The time saving will be around 2 minutes but comfort will be greatly increased as will the passenger perception and experience.

From next year St Pancras to the terminal can be completed in under 30 minutes making it quicker than London to Gatwick or Stansted. The airport was hoping for 4 non stop trains an hour but got 2, which is better than the 1 non stop train at the moment. The rolling stock to be used will be a big disappointment though.

Last edited by LTNman; 18th Apr 2021 at 21:03.
LTNman is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.