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Old 12th Apr 2021, 16:03
  #181 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: London
Posts: 202
Another expensive problem for operators was the Govt. announcing on a Thursday that travel to such and such a country would be banned in the next 48 hours....leaving holiday operators such as Jet 2 with customers stranded in the various resorts affected....meaning expensive empty legs to get them home.
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Old 12th Apr 2021, 16:15
  #182 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2004
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I think TUI are more likely to survive a poor summer 2021 having announced a €350m convertible bonds offering on 9th April than by propping up the operation using passenger aircraft to fly freight.
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Old 12th Apr 2021, 16:27
  #183 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2016
Location: The EU
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Wow. So many nibbles from so many "experts" with their red and silver tinted glasses. I guess time will tell.

I would advise that some people read up on how the furlough scheme works though (hint: you can be un-furloughed and re-furloughed as and when required, and training can be carried out whilst furloughed).
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Old 12th Apr 2021, 16:47
  #184 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: A post-punk postcard fair
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Are you admitting to trolling?

Yes they can be furloughed and unfurloughed, which as it happens is what they are doing with a lot of their staff. They’re ramping up training in anticipation for a return to normal operations. This can be done at a pace to suit the business needs, whereas it’s not prudent to recruit hundreds of seasonal workers only to have them doing nothing.

Nobody is professing to be an expert, except Vokes55 who seems to have appointed their self as their unofficial strategist. Rather, we are trying to make the point that the experts have called it and we must trust that they know what they are doing with the information they have available. If the worst was to happen and the company didn’t survive then it may be reasonable to pick the bones, but it hasn’t and the company are still on a solid footing with strong leadership.
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Old 12th Apr 2021, 17:17
  #185 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2016
Location: The EU
Posts: 566

And I'm the troll? It doesn't take an expert to know that an airline needs revenue to stay in business. Going by your (and others) rhetoric, they may as well cancel the entire Summer and come back next year. It's not like the uncertainty is going to disappear on June 24th.

After all, I'm sure a year without having to pay for seasonal staff is what will keep them in business....
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Old 12th Apr 2021, 17:30
  #186 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2006
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To post something in order to illicit a ‘nibble’ is the definition of trolling.

We agree, the airline would be better off flying. In fact it’s pretty obvious that this whole pandemic thing has caused issues throughout the industry. These statements do not need to be validated by experts. The experts are the ones who have to mitigate as they see fit, and as has been pointed out to you, just because TUI are earning some revenue in cargo does not mean that it is a viable proposition for Jet2 to do the same.

They are making plans with the limited information available. If that means keeping their aircraft on the ground then that is their decision and one for which they are paid a lot to make. It’s not a ‘fanboyism’ to state the obvious!

I wish all companies and their employees well and hope that they are all able to start operations and generate sufficient revenue ASAP. I see no benefit in picking apart decisions made by any operator during these unprecedented times, I’m sure most people’s livelihoods on this forum rely on the industry bouncing back.

Perhaps a critical analysis of the leadership in Parliament is more appropriate at this time.

Last edited by pug; 12th Apr 2021 at 17:58.
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Old 12th Apr 2021, 17:45
  #187 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: gatwick
Age: 48
Posts: 141
Gentlemen, of course we all know we are uncertain times. In fact we are in times of which no one alive, or dead for that matter, has has experienced such a time, and so we have many forecasts of what the future holds for us and airlines, of which we are all indebted. So let's give some slack to opinions being expressed.

I am pretty well relaxed that many will make it through these very trying times. As well as many here do not wish to paint a black future for us and our industry. It's difficult enough to keep a level head and seeing many negative posts doesn't help. No real industry person wishes another airline have difficulties but it's a fact that many are suffering. Let's not pick on Jet2 as an example for crowing from competitor airlines and just hope that we get some warmth and comfort from governments, mind you I don't see much of it.

One cannot level criticism at Jet2 as they move their goalposts, as they will continue to adjust to fluctuations in governments advice and travel restrictions. They are doing what any responsibile company would do. That's not to say that they have it right, but who has? There are limits to forecasts and as I stated we have never been in such a fluid moving marketplace.

I seriously hope that we san come out of these times with jobs for all aviators as they are my kind of people and feel privileged to be a airline pilot.

Good luck to all.
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Old 12th Apr 2021, 19:12
  #188 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: big green wheely bin
Posts: 744

There was a rather interesting article about that £350m in The Times in the week. Didn’t make pleasant reading for the TUI board.
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Old 12th Apr 2021, 20:33
  #189 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: North England
Posts: 73
The numbers look quite concerning for the TUI group.....
The group has received over €5bn in financial aid so far.
It’s net debt is currently standing over €7bn, putting the firm on a high net debt to earnings ratio of six times. Generally, three times is considered sustainable !
A sizeable amount of this debt will need to be repaid by July ‘22.
As of March, the group has liquidity of around €1.6bn with a monthly cash burn between €250m-€300m.

We all need to get summer 2021 up and running ASAP !

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Old 12th Apr 2021, 21:13
  #190 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: East London
Age: 39
Posts: 416
On travel and holidays people arenít rational. Watch the ITV Heathrow programme - people having a go at airport staff because other Governments banned travel from the UK. When the inevitable happens and May/June holidays are cancelled itíll be the airlines/operators that get the blame for Ďruining summersí. Anyone that thinks there will be a substantial number of destinations available to visit in the near future, especially in Europe, is living in cloud cuckoo land.

So my view is Jet2 are doing the right, sensible and most sustainable thing
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Old 13th Apr 2021, 06:37
  #191 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 886
From experience J2 are indeed the most astute people I've come across in the industry. As a whole, it has proven time and time again that airlines are incredibly resilient, even more so during this crisis. Whether it be an ash crowd, severe weather, terrorism, natural disasters and a pandemic. Unfortunately that never seems to come at the betterment of the employee who continue to take haircut after haircut.

Its going to be a long process to return to some sort of financial normality - I actually think the difficulties for many carriers will come down the track when financial support ends, (oil prices are already back up to pre-pandemic levels) and passengers actually need to be flown. I like others have flights booked that were made 20 months ago. Obviously not the full amount of money is released by credit card companies until the flight takes place but what is available has probably already been spent many times over to retain an even keel.

As for the general public, airlines will be blamed because it fits the narrative of the right wing media... the government have to come out smelling of roses regardless.
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Old 13th Apr 2021, 06:45
  #192 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: big green wheely bin
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This is where I think Jet2 are very clever though. No passengers money is counted as Jet2s cash until that passenger has flown on holiday. Essentially all their money is ring fenced until the holiday has taken place. That means Jet 2 can refund passengers promptly, and deposits amounts are not counted in cash flow figures.
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Old 13th Apr 2021, 07:12
  #193 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: SW1A 2AA
Posts: 157
TUI will not be able to trade their way out of debt. TCX failed with £1.5 billion. There will either be a dilution of shares, restructure or a sale of some assets to reduce the debt pile. Iím not wearing red and silver tinted spectacles either. TUI is a huge and diverse company but it is now heavily geared as a result of the pandemic.
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Old 6th May 2021, 12:41
  #194 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Wolverhampton
Posts: 280
300s back at Leeds?

Just spotted G-GDFT en route Murcia - Leeds due apox 14.00.
May have missed this - is that the first of the 300s to come back from storage?
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Old 6th May 2021, 12:59
  #195 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire
Posts: 1,117
It's actually the last of 7+ Boeing 737-300's to return to Leeds from storage in Spain.
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Old 6th May 2021, 13:06
  #196 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Wolverhampton
Posts: 280
We're wide awake. Not.

Thanks LBIA must try and stay awake!
Fingers crossed for Alicante in July and Bodrum in Sept.
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Old 7th May 2021, 15:52
  #197 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 74

It was actually the 6th of the 7 300s left. FN is still in Almeria.
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Old 7th May 2021, 15:55
  #198 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Wolverhampton
Posts: 280
getting a sneaky, early free tan, I guess.
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Old 7th May 2021, 16:57
  #199 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 57
Anyone know when the remaining 757s will be returning from their "holiday" to Murcia? I know a few came back to MAN recently.
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Old 8th May 2021, 15:57
  #200 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 63
321's & Jet2

Anyone know if jet2 will expand their fleet of 321's after the recovery, seems quite odd if they only keep 2?
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