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Old 12th Nov 2022, 10:04
  #1541 (permalink)  
 
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So what of the "Regional Aircraft Maintenance Centre within Hangar 2" referred to in the planning documents?
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Old 13th Nov 2022, 13:31
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Originally Posted by Harold77
The planning application. The plans look really impressive. 5 new hangars.

https://www.darlington.gov.uk/enviro...ations-online/

Is it just me, or have all the planning documents disappeared from the Darlington council website?
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Old 13th Nov 2022, 15:40
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Cheers - there were no documents in the document tab when I looked earlier
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Old 13th Nov 2022, 20:47
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Grrr

Originally Posted by Grumpy1
As one of the 727's is to occupy hangar 2 and as Willis have virtually no staff remaining at the hangar do we assume that the aircraft breaking project is dead?
Hangar is tall enough for the tail of a 727?
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Old 16th Nov 2022, 14:04
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To continue the MME discussion on the DSA thread in the correct place, it is true we miss out on almost all diversions these days when back in the day we used to be the second most diverted-to airfield in the country after Birmingham which only pipped us because it took Londons traffic.

I was once told this was due to airlines favouring airports where they have engineering in place, however I would have thought the arrival of Willis if not even Sycamore before them would have mitigated this, so can't be that clear cut. In any event there must be a reason
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Old 16th Nov 2022, 14:22
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No airline staff on duty
Not 24 hours
Parking restrictions
Other airfields equipment better
Bus availability
Aircraft now have more modern equipment

Might be other reasons?

Was Manchester not way out in front for diversions ?
Can’t remember when Teesside was the go to place for diversions..I must admit!

On another slightly linked theme..will the 727s arriving put a bit of a strain on available stands going forward?
Maybe it’s time for the mayor to extend the apron and improve taxiways now?
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Old 16th Nov 2022, 15:25
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Ryanair have added Corfu and Faro now

Same schedule as last year
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Old 16th Nov 2022, 15:57
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I was once told this was due to airlines favouring airports where they have engineering in place, however I would have thought the arrival of Willis if not even Sycamore before them would have mitigated this, so can't be that clear cut. In any event there must be a reason
Is it not so much engineering presence as such, but having the contracts etc in place, as well as grounding handling etc, so airlines go where they have these relationships already in place.
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Old 16th Nov 2022, 16:02
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Also use to come down to how familiar pilots were with the airfield.
When training was done by circuit bashing more pilots were familiar with MME.
Now it's done alot in the sim, so MME may not be as well known. There is also the schools element and general GA situation, in that there is a current push from management for what ever reason that has lead to MME being viewed as being unfavourable to light GA which is where airline pilots often start!
Hence there is an element of awareness when it come to diverts too!
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Old 16th Nov 2022, 19:45
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Originally Posted by onion
Also use to come down to how familiar pilots were with the airfield.
When training was done by circuit bashing more pilots were familiar with MME.
Now it's done alot in the sim, so MME may not be as well known. There is also the schools element and general GA situation, in that there is a current push from management for what ever reason that has lead to MME being viewed as being unfavourable to light GA which is where airline pilots often start!
Hence there is an element of awareness when it come to diverts too!
From the point of view of being an airline Captain... the above is not so accurate. Diverts come down to; Weather (forecast), Nav aids etc, but most importantly whether the company has a commercial agreement and the airport has the facilities needed. (at least for my company). Of all the airports I trained at... It would make little difference to me as an alternate. An ILS is an ILS, a runway is a runway, Same S*** different numbers and all that. Airports and Airlines simply come down to commercial decisions and the incentives on offer to operate there.
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Old 16th Nov 2022, 20:05
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Originally Posted by wanna
From the point of view of being an airline Captain... the above is not so accurate. Diverts come down to; Weather (forecast), Nav aids etc, but most importantly whether the company has a commercial agreement and the airport has the facilities needed. (at least for my company). Of all the airports I trained at... It would make little difference to me as an alternate. An ILS is an ILS, a runway is a runway, Same S*** different numbers and all that. Airports and Airlines simply come down to commercial decisions and the incentives on offer to operate there.
Totally, and the noise recently of the diversions from LBA being used as an example of why DSA should remain open have been giving little thought for the fact that LBA is minutes flying time away from Manchester and Newcastle, regardless of the travel time by road. They go where there are invariably established commercial agreements and facilities to cater for the operational disruption created by such diverts.

This is the problem, so much emphasis seems to be placed on the facilities of an airport (length of runway, nav aids, motorway access etc) and very little consideration for why airlines choose airports like Leeds where they are susceptible to poor weather and surface access. It’s simple. Passenger demand! These places have large catchment areas so the airlines make it work. It’s why Leeds and Newcastle will always usurp MME, and is why DSA has ultimately failed. No passengers = no money = no airline, weather constraints and inadequate facilities are just an occupational hazard.
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Old 16th Nov 2022, 22:15
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Originally Posted by wanna
From the point of view of being an airline Captain... the above is not so accurate. Diverts come down to; Weather (forecast), Nav aids etc, but most importantly whether the company has a commercial agreement and the airport has the facilities needed. (at least for my company). Of all the airports I trained at... It would make little difference to me as an alternate. An ILS is an ILS, a runway is a runway, Same S*** different numbers and all that. Airports and Airlines simply come down to commercial decisions and the incentives on offer to operate there.
That's why I said also, as in if the commercials contracts/agreements are there then small things like knowledge and familiarity can be a consideration.

Currently MME loses out to others due to having only a few companies with relative small
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Old 16th Nov 2022, 22:28
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Originally Posted by onion
That's why I said also, as in if the commercials contracts/agreements are there then small things like knowledge and familiarity can be a consideration.

Currently MME loses out to others due to having only a few companies with relative small
In general terms it ‘loses out’ to not having based operators, that’s all. General awareness matters not one jot when you’re following the magenta line. I could be wrong but I don’t think MME could build a business on being a poor weather diversion point to be honest.
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Old 16th Nov 2022, 23:02
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Just hope they don't start parking the 727s over the far side of the airfield. High risk of someone mistaking them for a Trident and setting fire to them!
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Old 17th Nov 2022, 08:07
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Originally Posted by pug
In general terms it ‘loses out’ to not having based operators, that’s all. General awareness matters not one jot when you’re following the magenta line. I could be wrong but I don’t think MME could build a business on being a poor weather diversion point to be honest.
Nor have I said that MME should build a business on being a poor weather diversion point?!
All I said was 'there use to be' other factors, I'm talking 20 years plus ago.
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Old 17th Nov 2022, 08:58
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As an example, Jet2 will always try and divert to a company base where possible, if that isn't possible, divert to an operating destination. TUI do the same. The best we can hope for for diversions into Teesside are those operators who operate both into Teesside and other local airports e.g. Ryanair, KLM and Loganair.

As others have said, there's nothing worse than diverting at 10pm to somewhere where you aren't expected, have few staff on duty and have no contracts in place for handling, fuel, hotels, busses etc. In the case of an emergency, all of those considerations go out of the window however.
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Old 17th Nov 2022, 22:05
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Originally Posted by Flightrider
Just hope they don't start parking the 727s over the far side of the airfield. High risk of someone mistaking them for a Trident and setting fire to them!
They are being parked in Hangar 2 and on stand.
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Old 17th Nov 2022, 23:14
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Heard tonight the engineering support for the 72s may not be coming to Teesside.
The person I spoke to was ex 2excel and still worked on a sub contract basis for them.
They suggested that the Cardiff base may of been better suited to the engineering support.
Hopefully something will be put in place to support the move to Teesside for the long term.
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Old 18th Nov 2022, 08:58
  #1560 (permalink)  
 
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To continue the MME discussion on the DSA thread in the correct place, it is true we miss out on almost all diversions these days when back in the day we used to be the second most diverted-to airfield in the country after Birmingham which only pipped us because it took Londons traffic.
I have been around flying and aviation in the North East since mid 70's, I used to compile the UK diversion log as part of my duties as an ATCA on LATCC supervisors desk 82-86 and I can't remember MME getting that many diversions?? London TMA divs would go Brum, Manch, Prestwick and downwards in the days??
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