Teesside-2

[Cautious Optimist]

You would think the government departments coming up north would guarantee and protect a London route, I think once those departments are fully up and running the route will do just fine. As GrahamK says it depends when whoever is leasing them wants them back

[SWBKCB]

Originally Posted by Cautious Optimist

You would think the government departments coming up north would guarantee and protect a London route, I think once those departments are fully up and running the route will do just fine. As GrahamK says it depends when whoever is leasing them wants them back

Only for tranistting LHR to go abroad. Won't be used for travel to London with a mainline station on the doorstep. Have you not heard of the climate crisis? Many Govt depts have banned domestic flights.

[Cautious Optimist]

I remember you saying that previously actually. Seems to me to be the foundations for your typical Government scandal, can't see Ben wanting them using the train over his prized Heathrow service so will find a loophole

[SWBKCB]

Don't think Ben has much influence over the travel policies of govt depts. And aren't they spending a load of money on Darlington station as well?

Be interesting to see how long LHR want to be nice to 40 seaters before they start re-structuring their charges.

[Cautious Optimist]

If bmi were turning passengers away with 4x daily A320s competing against the trains, we should manage 2x daily E145 no matter how good the trains may have become

[BA318]

Originally Posted by Cautious Optimist

If bmi were turning passengers away with 4x daily A320s competing against the trains, we should manage 2x daily E145 no matter how good the trains may have become

The world has changed a lot in that time. Domestic flying is frowned upon by many companies. E145 costs are much higher per passenger and did BMI actually make a profit on the route? It’s easy to carry loads of passengers. It’s hard making money from them.

[Harold77]

CAA Airport December 2020 figures.

Aircraft Movements 1,011
Terminal Passengers 5,798

Aberdeen 1,510
Belfast 563
Bournemouth 40 (Charter)
Cardiff 37 (Charter)
Heathrow 1359

Alicante 1,159
Amsterdam 788
Enontekio 342

Covid restrictions for entry to overseas countries still really biting at the numbers, such as the Netherlands tight entry restrictions.

Aircraft Movements summary:
2021 finished with just under 1,300 extra movements compared to 2019. Even with a dire start to 2021 huge increases were seen over the spring/ summer/ autumn so helped neutralise the negative start of the year. So Aircraft Movement wise puts the airport on a good footing going into 2022. So when we compare the monthly totals between 2022 & 2019 we will see some big increases in usage. Covid is still having a real big effect on schedules for the start of 2022, hopefully we will see full timetable operations begin in the not too distant future as places start to return to normality.

[highwideandugly]

Roughly 94 departing passengers per day….wonder how many will use the newly opened spa😀

[jorvik]

Aircraft movements mean nothing when they are practically empty. Revenue through the terminal is what keeps money in the bank.

[onion]

Originally Posted by jorvik

Aircraft movements mean nothing when they are practically empty. Revenue through the terminal is what keeps money in the bank.

Well Draken will be most displeased with your assumption that they should be carrying fare paying passengers!

Honestly I wonder where some people get the business brains from. MME has more to it than pax and a terminal. Yes it maybe losing money at the moment but
1. Who isnt in this climate and
2. The business plan envisaged loss making for a period.

[highwideandugly]

Darken I believe is a fixed contract price? So movements don’t actually mean much in the grand scheme of things?

Jorvik is right..airports make their money with foot fall through the terminal..car parking,duty free,spas! etc. Therefore there is a massive financial burden on those 94 departing passengers !

Remind me how long the business plan envisaged making a loss for?

[Get me some traffic]

Draken may pay a fixed price for movements but I doubt if that applies to fuel and other commodities?
When the Aviation industry was all but closed last year or so, Draken (FRA) continued to operate. The losses incurred by MME would have been much more without them.
Onion is right, MME is more than just pax. The business base overall is improving, it will take time but I believe Ben's plan will work.

[N707ZS]

And don't forget IAS medical who operate Beech King airs and Da 62s, Thales with their Beech 200 and Da 42 all requiring fuel. The fire school also had to stay open to keep firefighter current.

[Harold77]

Originally Posted by highwideandugly

Darken I believe is a fixed contract price? So movements don’t actually mean much in the grand scheme of things?

Jorvik is right..airports make their money with foot fall through the terminal..car parking,duty free,spas! etc. Therefore there is a massive financial burden on those 94 departing passengers !

Remind me how long the business plan envisaged making a loss for?

Draken may be fixed price contract. But Falcon operations are increasing significantly and expansion of operations with Aggressor unit. So with increased operations there will be significant increase in fuel requirements etc

Then you have the other flight companies based at the airport, such as Medical, Callibration and Flight Training/ Pleasure. Then there is Private General Aviation planes. Teesside also sees a really significant amount of business jet usage that has been increasing over the past few years.

Teesside has more non passenger activities than many other airports. Thus Movements does become a significant barometer of performance, especially the covid restrictions.

[Albert Hall]

Just reading this thread for the first time in ages, there seem to be some very insular attitudes or agendas in play. The activity levels at pretty much every UK airport are at rock-bottom again right now, with the Omicron impact on passenger demand being the reason for it. It is hopefully short-term but it is severe. From what I can see:

Cardiff has only one flight departure on Wednesday for the entire day - Ryanair to Dublin.
Southend remains all but closed.
Gatwick has one of two terminals still firmly shut.
Doncaster has one flight departure on Wednesday for the whole day - Wizz to Bucharest.

Airports that were/are much larger than MME are seeing vastly reduced levels of traffic right now. 94 passengers a day by those standards isn't bad. So as I say, I'm not sure whether it's simply an insular approach or whether it's driving a particular agenda, but at least a) the airport is still open and b) there are flights going to and from it. In today's world, that's a bonus.

[SWBKCB]

Unsure when the next Tees Valley election is,

Think it's a three year term, so May 24?

[Cautious Optimist]

A common theory is the mayor will have had a promotion to Westminster by the time the next election comes around. Hopefully by then things will be advanced enough that there will be no going back, as the last thing we need is yet another abandoned development

[SWBKCB]

Yes - the same people involved in the southside as Teeswork

I'm a bit baffled as to what has actually been announced, is there anything more than the press release on the Airports website?

[N707ZS]

And the fact that it says complete by the summer. Its took nearly two years to build a three bar fence from the main road and that's in the wrong location. Then millions spent on hangar 3. Mayor Ben seems to be working from the little book of Boris.

[DP.]

Originally Posted by BA318

The world has changed a lot in that time. Domestic flying is frowned upon by many companies.

This is very true. I work for a fairly large company and domestic flying is now pretty much not permitted unless it's a route where the train journey is particularly onerous (ABZ is the obvious example), or there's some other exceptional circumstance. There's almost no scenario where we would be permitted to fly from Manchester to London, for example. Under our policy, it'd be very rare that a Darlington to London journey by air would be approved