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Old 3rd Feb 2024, 17:14
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Bill - I know my onions. I’m a qualified finance professional and have been for 25 years. This means I deal with facts not fiction.

That said, I like a good rumour about new airlines and routes from an airport….
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Old 3rd Feb 2024, 17:29
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Originally Posted by P330
Bill - I know my onions. I’m a qualified finance professional and have been for 25 years. This means I deal with facts not fiction.

That said, I like a good rumour about new airlines and routes from an airport….
And before retirement I was the CEO of a manufacturing company for 17 years, selling their finished goods all over the world and we never saw the nessesity to declare EBITDA figures, we were proud of our performance and had nothing to hide, so I am still with Warren Buffett,
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Old 3rd Feb 2024, 17:47
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Originally Posted by Bill Darlington
And before retirement I was the CEO of a manufacturing company for 17 years, selling their finished goods all over the world and we never saw the nessesity to declare EBITDA figures, we were proud of our performance and had nothing to hide, so I am still with Warren Buffett,
And I working in auditing, and seen many CEO have no clue what their company is doing!
There are strict rules as P330 says on reporting and unfortunately for for those conspiracy theorist out their Mr Houchen has very little if nothing to do with the accounts! But of course any CEO should be able to confirm that.
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Old 3rd Feb 2024, 17:50
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Ok..my reply..so you are saying it’s ok for an airport to be ‘rather’ quiet during the winter months…as exceptionally high profits are made in the summer? Ok..I will go with that theory.

But my original query was how much does it cost ,I wonder, to keep a major airport open on days when..actually..not much happens?
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Old 3rd Feb 2024, 18:02
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Originally Posted by highwideandugly
Ok..my reply..so you are saying it’s ok for an airport to be ‘rather’ quiet during the winter months…as exceptionally high profits are made in the summer? Ok..I will go with that theory.

But my original query was how much does it cost ,I wonder, to keep a major airport open on days when..actually..not much happens?
I would guees that its the same as 'busy' days. So divide the cost x 365 - if you actually know what the 'cost' is, that is.
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Old 3rd Feb 2024, 18:03
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Originally Posted by onion
And I working in auditing, and seen many CEO have no clue what their company is doing!
There are strict rules as P330 says on reporting and unfortunately for for those conspiracy theorist out their Mr Houchen has very little if nothing to do with the accounts! But of course any CEO should be able to confirm that.
In my 17 years I met with dozens of CEOs and from my personal experience all knew exactly what the financial capacity of their companies were,
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Old 3rd Feb 2024, 18:08
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Originally Posted by Bill Darlington
In my 17 years I met with dozens of CEOs and from my personal experience all knew exactly what the financial capacity of their companies were,
Me too - as QC ISO9000 auditor for big engineering multinational.
Worst / Best answer to basic question 'what is your long term ambition for your Company' was 'getting through to Friday'. Sayeth.MD of eng components company training over Millions.
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Old 3rd Feb 2024, 18:36
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Originally Posted by Flying Hi
Me too - as QC ISO9000 auditor for big engineering multinational.
Worst / Best answer to basic question 'what is your long term ambition for your Company' was 'getting through to Friday'. Sayeth.MD of eng components company training over Millions.
Indeed Mr Yan from Evergrande was saying that just a week ago
I was fortunate to retire before COVID and all the instability that followed, it's a lot more difficult nowadays,we live in a poorer world, we need to learn how to be peaceful again.
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Old 3rd Feb 2024, 18:40
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To be fair Bill, I’ve disclosed EBITDA before and alternatives such as Operating Profit. The argument for EBITDA is it focusses on trading and ignores historical capex and interest. I get though that some don’t like it.

That said, using it is fine, entirely normal and legal, independently verified and is not a sign of people trying to hide things.

My frustration is the constant search for conspiracy and non-truths.
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Old 3rd Feb 2024, 18:58
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Originally Posted by P330
To be fair Bill, I’ve disclosed EBITDA before and alternatives such as Operating Profit. The argument for EBITDA is it focusses on trading and ignores historical capex and interest. I get though that some don’t like it.

That said, using it is fine, entirely normal and legal, independently verified and is not a sign of people trying to hide things.

My frustration is the constant search for conspiracy and non-truths.
I do appreciate that EBITDA accounting is perfectly acceptable, entirely legal, but there are many CEOs and especially investors are not fans,
I guess conspiracy theorists, and I admit I am a little that way inclined, is that they are always looking beyond the problem, rightly or wrongly, without questions we don't know the answers , some of us simply have a suspicious nature, and seek explanations before we accept what's being told to us, we are who we are, we mean no harm
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Old 3rd Feb 2024, 18:59
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Maybe the search can be stopped by being open and honest with taxpayers money?
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Old 3rd Feb 2024, 19:06
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Originally Posted by Bill Darlington
I do appreciate that EBITDA accounting is perfectly acceptable, entirely legal, but there are many CEOs and especially investors are not fans,
I guess conspiracy theorists, and I admit I am a little that way inclined, is that they are always looking beyond the problem, rightly or wrongly, without questions we don't know the answers , some of us simply have a suspicious nature, and seek explanations before we accept what's being told to us, we are who we are, we mean no harm
Fair enough, can’t argue with that. 👍
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Old 3rd Feb 2024, 20:13
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Originally Posted by highwideandugly
Just looking at the great Teesside movement web site.

Especially Saturdays…Recently no flights after 12 ish…how much does it cost to keep a fully functioning airport open..if nothing is happening or generating cash?
I wouldn't take what is on the movements page or the airport departure/ arrivals boards as gospel as to what is actually happening on the day. It may seem that nothing is happening but the exact opposite. It could be kept quite busy with single engine light aircraft doing circuits etc which they don't put up on the page. So the small aircraft can be generating cash when it doesn't seem to be anything happening.
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Old 3rd Feb 2024, 20:46
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Originally Posted by Harold77
I wouldn't take what is on the movements page or the airport departure/ arrivals boards as gospel as to what is actually happening on the day. It may seem that nothing is happening but the exact opposite. It could be kept quite busy with single engine light aircraft doing circuits etc which they don't put up on the page. So the small aircraft can be generating cash when it doesn't seem to be anything happening.
And how much cash do based training a/c generate on a Saturday afternoon? I would expect there to be some sort of annual contract, rather than pay for invidual movements. Anybody know?
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Old 3rd Feb 2024, 21:20
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Originally Posted by Bill Darlington
I do appreciate that EBITDA accounting is perfectly acceptable, entirely legal, but there are many CEOs and especially investors are not fans,
I guess conspiracy theorists, and I admit I am a little that way inclined, is that they are always looking beyond the problem, rightly or wrongly, without questions we don't know the answers , some of us simply have a suspicious nature, and seek explanations before we accept what's being told to us, we are who we are, we mean no harm
let us see what has happened in the last financial year that the results cover.

New Hangar 360 built and occupied. Draken increases fleet with 8x Honey Badgers arriving after gaining new contract increasing their business.
TVCA had moved into new office built at the airport.
Training Schools increasing fleets.
Fuel sales increased after increase in aircraft.
Cargo operations start.
More larger aircraft using airport than previous year.

108,362 extra passengers than previous year.
1,230 extra aircraft movements

Extra passengers means increased car parking revenues and spending in terminal businesses along with fees.

Turnover £15,575,088
Cost of Sales £14,226,132
So profit £1,348,956 on turnover vs cost of sales.

Interest Rate on Loans remain same level as they have done since purchase.

So there is a lot more going on than just passengers at the airport.
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Old 3rd Feb 2024, 21:57
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Harold, we have had cargo since the airport opened in the 1960s. The shed was still lying empty with a broken door last time I passed by.

A curio. The Mayor said he had 20 million to build hangars and all the plans appeared. Then Airborne Colours said they were spending 6.5 million on the hangar. So who is actually paying for the new hangar?
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Old 3rd Feb 2024, 22:35
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We've had more cargo now than we have had for a good number of years.
Financial Year
2022-23 about 15 tonnes
2023-24 about 62 tonnes so far.

CAA Historical Data
Calendar Year - Tonnes
2020 - 8
2018 - 1
2017 - 4
2016 - 8
2014 - 2
2011 - 3

2009 - 298
2008 - 290
2007 - 786
2006 - 457
2005 - 363
2004 - 485
2003 - 1,087
2002 - 1,007
2001 - 1,927
2000 - 3,007

1999 - 2,820
1998 - 1,455
1997 - 39
1996 - 68
1995 - 85
1994 - 69
1993 - 40
1992 - 35
1991 - 53
1990 - 86
1989 - 77
1988 - 65
1987 - 68
1986 - 63
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Old 4th Feb 2024, 00:21
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Originally Posted by N707ZS
Harold, we have had cargo since the airport opened in the 1960s. The shed was still lying empty with a broken door last time I passed by.

A curio. The Mayor said he had 20 million to build hangars and all the plans appeared. Then Airborne Colours said they were spending 6.5 million on the hangar. So who is actually paying for the new hangar?
Meant to say Cargo operations start to increase again.

That 20m extra was to help towards covid losses and expansion of airfield facilities.
We have seen Draken new Hangar built, Hangar Four being built, Jet engine (testing) blast bay plus all the associated hard standings (aprons/ taxiways), updates to radar/ airport computer systems to include new buildings and aircraft stands and utilities connections.

The Airbourne Colours investment figure could comprise of numerous costs such as equipment and plant, hangar fitting out, also other costs.
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Old 4th Feb 2024, 01:38
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The quality of user on this thread has fallen off a cliff of late. It's like watching a load of attention seekers and village idiots bicker over a subject matter they think they understand and quite frankly don't
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Old 4th Feb 2024, 06:30
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Agree with that. They are even missing the new developing points.
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