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Old 28th Dec 2021, 19:36
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot View Post
It makes the old Servisair look like a gold plated superstar by comparison.
What are you suggesting?!?
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Old 28th Dec 2021, 22:44
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That 3rd party handling used to be staffed in a way that allowed for some contingency, I mention Servisair as they were the most famous of the old UK GHAs. They were also based in Stockport I think?
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Old 28th Dec 2021, 23:09
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Wilmslow. Much maligned and often with good reason, but also often only as good as the various airlines Operations teams. Not always dealing with the elite.
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Old 29th Dec 2021, 00:49
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True but they handled the likes of American and the other long haul carriers as well as the Costa charters. Funding has been cut to the bone since then.
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Old 29th Dec 2021, 11:35
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Qatar will go 18 weekly starting February and frequency will be maintained during summer 2022
Emirates 3rd daily flight now visible starting 1st July. Overall 2 daily 2-class A380 (615 seats) and 1 daily 3-class A380
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Old 29th Dec 2021, 14:41
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Did we establish if the No Divs NOTAM was prompted by the handler or MAG.

It's not like turning a truck away from a supermarket........

As Captain Mainwaring once said "its not Sainsburys , Godfrey".



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Old 29th Dec 2021, 16:36
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Originally Posted by Navpi View Post
Did we establish if the No Divs NOTAM was prompted by the handler or MAG.

It's not like turning a truck away from a supermarket........

As Captain Mainwaring once said "its not Sainsburys , Godfrey".
I think the answer is 'No' Navpi. Obviously the notam was issued by MAN, but whether or not that was primarily an airport decision or one prompted after feed back from the GHAs remains an unknown unless any contributor on here knows for certain.
Incidentally, I understand EMA took a Ryanair diversion from LBA so it wasn't a MAG dictat.

As mentioned, Servisair was locally based for MAN - actually I had a feeling their office was in Bramhall at one time - and in days of yore, my recollection is that they were usually very accommodating when it came to diversions. On one particular Sunday, they took a multitude of flights from LHR including 3 x Pan Am B747s whilst a certain airline with their own ops. at Manchester managed a solitary early morning B747 before deciding that was enough extra work for the day. BA were so unpredictable, sometimes because of work-to-rules but on occasions you wondered whether it was more to do with which supervisor / team were on duty.

Still, at least we got some interesting stuff in those days at a time when MAN displayed more of a 'can do' attitude in its approach.
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Old 29th Dec 2021, 16:44
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on occasions you wondered whether it was more to do with which supervisor / team were on duty.
Hit the nail on the head there - and how far the overtime budget would stretch. And Alderley Edge for the head office? Rumour has it EMA turned away F1 747's recently as DHL were too busy.
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Old 29th Dec 2021, 17:04
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The Servisair head office use to be in Alderley Edge - when Wally Caulfield was MD - as said by SWBKCB, and then moved to Bramhall at a later date.
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Old 29th Dec 2021, 21:17
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Originally Posted by EGNXROB View Post
Both QR 747-8’s was due to operate through EMA on F1 duties Thursday & Saturday and had flight plans filed but believe DHL rejected them as the times clashed with peak time at DHL, the first operated to Doncaster and the second Milan then onto Stansted I believe.
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Quote lifted from East Midlands thread - suggests it was DHL which turned them away rather than EMA. A DHL business decision after looking at their "bigger picture" perhaps.
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Old 29th Dec 2021, 22:30
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Originally Posted by Navpi View Post
Did we establish if the No Divs NOTAM was prompted by the handler or MAG.

It's not like turning a truck away from a supermarket........

As Captain Mainwaring once said "its not Sainsburys , Godfrey".
no DIV NOTAM issued by MAG
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Old 29th Dec 2021, 22:52
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
Hit the nail on the head there - and how far the overtime budget would stretch. And Alderley Edge for the head office? Rumour has it EMA turned away F1 747's recently as DHL were too busy.
As was said, they went to Doncaster, "oh the luxury in this climate of being able to turn away business, at both a tactical and indeed strategic level."
-------------------------------
In terms of "passenger" diverts , actually getting passengers onwards OR NOT to their ultimate destination does not seem to be a priority in the decision process, incredibly getting an aircraft safely on the ground appears even far less critical !








.



Last edited by Navpi; 30th Dec 2021 at 09:28.
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Old 30th Dec 2021, 19:23
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Navpi
Surely there is little point an aircraft diverting to an airport if there are no staff to handle it. That just results in bad press for the airport as they take the blame as passengers may not understand or care that ground handling is provided by a third party.
How we got to that point - with airlines wanting to pay less and less for handling has been covered so I won't cover old ground.
As for safety - any aircraft can and will declare a PAN if fuel is low and no airport I know of would turn them away. Any open airport would do so as safety is always the priority.
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Old 30th Dec 2021, 19:36
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incredibly getting an aircraft safely on the ground appears even far less critical !
Ridiculous comment

Pesky things facts - this is what the NOTAM says:
AD NOT AVBL FOR DIVERTED TRAFFIC. EMERGENCIES EXCEPTED.
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Old 30th Dec 2021, 23:23
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I accept that staff shortages are likely at the root of this. But surely that is an industry-wide problem across the whole of the UK, yet MAN uniquely seems to have a 'NO DIVS' NOTAM ready to go on a near-permanent basis. And that dates back well pre-covid too. It isn't new, and the notam is often invoked for weeks at a time offering no room for discretion. If staffing is such an all-encompassing issue, why do LHR, LGW, STN, BHX, NCL, EDI, GLA, LTN etc. not have similar notams constantly on the go as well? It seems that Manchester's management dropped the ball on this years ago, and yet seem content to coast rather than resolve the underlying issue(s). Where is the urgency to DO SOMETHING to sort out this dire culture of negativity and complacency? Don't just pass the buck to blame handling agents, Border Force etc. It is upto MAG to work with partners such as these to ensure that capability and standards are up to the level MAN requires. And security: did you offload too many staff? Are you way behind the curve in rebuilding resilience?

MR CORNISH: This ('no-divs' notam) situation has been a recurring problem ON YOUR WATCH. It didn't constantly happen under your predecessors. Are you content for MAN to be viewed as a joke airport famous for saying NO (now, what is the question?). You have just lost a HUGE swathe of business. WHERE IS THE DRIVE TO WIN IT BACK? Where is the URGENCY? Where was Manchester's route development team when nearby airports were chasing new business to rebuild schedules in the wake of Covid? Is it true that you left our team ON FURLOUGH through that critical period? Is there any progress on sorting out the alleged hangar lettings debacle which occurred on your watch? Or the long-term decline of MAN's flown-cargo business since you took charge? And that in a sector which has thrived elsewhere during these covid-hit times. Yet we know that when MAN is asked to accommodate freighters, the answer is virtually always NO for any larger aircraft type. Is MAN actually the ONLY top-50 European airport which apparently can't deploy a Hi-Lo on site? That is shameful - is there a plan to sort it out?

MR CORNISH. What do you want your legacy at MAN to be? You had some legendary predecessors who each contributed to making the place punch above it's weight. Yes, you have presided over the TP, lots of kudos for that. But under you, we have seen flown-cargo in a lamentable cycle of decline and seemingly routinely switch-sold away. Blue-chip hangar tenants exiting the campus, or potential replacements reportedly unable to access apparently idle hangars to lease for valuable new business opportunities ... in favour of what exactly? Ryanair expansion proposals turned away in the past (additional based units requested - too difficult file?). NO DIVS notams a regular feature at MAN ... will that ever end? Do you think it acceptable that the business which you run routinely turns away incremental business opportunities, month after month, even after losing 2/3+ of standard throughput during covid? And the passenger experience: are any of the Skylink travellators working (don't think so), no apparent plans to repair or replace them? The walking distances are too great for this to be left unaddressed long-term. What about a terminals transfer bus until they are fixed? T2 is great, but the T1/T3 complex deserves TLC too ... millions of customers (including all EasyJet and Ryanair pax) still use the older infrastructure.

Many years ago, MAN ran a memorable national newspaper campaign showing a doorway at the Department of Transport with a "DO NOT DISTURB" sign hung on it. Did someone perhaps make off with that sign? Whose door is it hanging from now? Please reassure us that you're actually interested in doing something to bring MAN back to life. You don't want to be remembered as the guy who presided over managed decline, do you?

Last edited by OzzyOzBorn; 31st Dec 2021 at 01:57.
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Old 31st Dec 2021, 01:20
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Ozzy, take a chill pill mate. The airport does not pay the wages for handling agents so unless you are advocating subsidising them the status quo will continue. They man up for the work they have, not for potential diversions that may or may not happen.
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Old 31st Dec 2021, 02:25
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So, using your logic, why doesn't this same long-term 'no-divs' issue constantly crop up at all the other large UK airports too? Do they pay the wages for their handling agents? Do they subsidise them? And it's not confined to divs either. Requests for series of cargo flights notified well in advance hit the same predictable wall of 'no-can-do' at MAN.

Your solution amounts to shrug the shoulders, blame someone else, and continue to let the low standards drift on unaddressed indefinitely.

Identifying the problem does not absolve management from striving for a solution.
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Old 31st Dec 2021, 08:42
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Originally Posted by HOVIS View Post
Ozzy, take a chill pill mate. The airport does not pay the wages for handling agents so unless you are advocating subsidising them the status quo will continue. They man up for the work they have, not for potential diversions that may or may not happen.
"Take a chill pill"

No need for the chippy comments matey.

The complacency is pervasive , maybe it's because a few of us remember a time when a Man Airport CEO had the balls to take on Government, Whitehall, Dept Of Transport and won that we actually we make comparisons now ?

For the love of God we have just lost a contract to Bournemouth of all places, not Frankfurt, Paris Amsterdam but Bournemouth, how damming is that ?











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Old 31st Dec 2021, 08:50
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Is it maybe not something to do with the massive amount of construction work ongoing at Manchester?
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Old 31st Dec 2021, 11:13
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Originally Posted by OzzyOzBorn View Post
So, using your logic, why doesn't this same long-term 'no-divs' issue constantly crop up at all the other large UK airports too? Do they pay the wages for their handling agents? Do they subsidise them? And it's not confined to divs either. Requests for series of cargo flights notified well in advance hit the same predictable wall of 'no-can-do' at MAN.

Your solution amounts to shrug the shoulders, blame someone else, and continue to let the low standards drift on unaddressed indefinitely.

Identifying the problem does not absolve management from striving for a solution.
Maybe other airports have free stands available, maybe they have fewer peaks and troughs. I do not know, or care. I didn't offer a solution. I'm just explaining how it is at the coal face. The handling agents right now, today, do not have enough staff to offer the type of diversion availability you want. They can barely cope with the work they have. Aircraft are still being routinely towed off and on stands every night due to lack of contact gates. All of this takes resources. Bags are being offloaded late because the team that should be doing it are still on the previous arrival/departure. There is no slack. All this at a time when flights are less than 50% of their pandemic level. There is very little revenue to support the current operation. Many aircraft are going out less than half full.
It's a mess.
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