Manchester-3
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Location: bishops stortford herts
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About to point out the basic mathematical flaw in Navpi`s post too quite apart from the commercial realities & major differences driving the MAN & STN cargo markets.
Unfortunately posting & drawing attention to individual figures in this case to promote an "argument" is reflecting as they say "a statistical fallacy"...so yes the % figures are a coincidence.
Unfortunately posting & drawing attention to individual figures in this case to promote an "argument" is reflecting as they say "a statistical fallacy"...so yes the % figures are a coincidence.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: London
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I have sat quietly on the side lines but will now jump in with the blindingly obvious. Manchester's cargo in primarily belly freight on passenger aircraft, with the reduction in flights the cargo tonnage has gone down. Stansted's cargo is primarily main deck freight from the likes of Fedex, DHL and others. With the reduction in passenger flights more cargo has moved from passenger aircraft to freighters and the freight carriers that operate at Stansted have added services. this same reduction in passenger flights has meant slots for cargo have been opening up at Heathrow allowing ad-hoc flights that would previously have routed through Stansted to route via Heathrow..The pandemic has disrupted the cargo market as much as the passenger market.
Last edited by STN Ramp Rat; 16th Feb 2021 at 10:07.
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Understand that some ad-hocs (at least at the start of the pandemic) were denied access to STN firstly with lack of authorised HOTAC & with a lack of staff outside of the long standing contracts handling.
EUROWINGS to start BHX & MAN to Palma
https://newscloud.eurowings.com/en/2...el-market.html
https://newscloud.eurowings.com/en/2...el-market.html
Join Date: Jun 2016
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Sorry chaps1954, AD closed overnight as per Notam below
A0829/21 NOTAMN
Q) EGTT/QMRLC/IV/NBO/A /000/999/5321N00217W005
A) EGCC B) 2103152100 C) 2104150600
D) MAR 15-MAR 26 2100-0700, MAR 27 2100-0600, MAR 28-APR 14 2000-0600
E) RWY 05L/23R AND RWY 05R/23L NOT AVBL. AD NOT AVBL FOR DIVERTED
TRAFFIC
A0829/21 NOTAMN
Q) EGTT/QMRLC/IV/NBO/A /000/999/5321N00217W005
A) EGCC B) 2103152100 C) 2104150600
D) MAR 15-MAR 26 2100-0700, MAR 27 2100-0600, MAR 28-APR 14 2000-0600
E) RWY 05L/23R AND RWY 05R/23L NOT AVBL. AD NOT AVBL FOR DIVERTED
TRAFFIC
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Birmingham
Age: 62
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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MAG - February 2021
Feb Pax
MAN = 79,408 down 95.5%
STN = 34,967 down 98.1%
EMA = 255 down 99.9%
Rolling 12m pax
STN = 3,903,227 down 86.1%
MAN = 3,688,509 down 87.4%
EMA = 519,779 down 88.8%
Feb Cargo
EMA = 34,053 up 23.6%
STN = 19,832 up 51.9%
MAN = 4,174 down 41.8%
MAN = 79,408 down 95.5%
STN = 34,967 down 98.1%
EMA = 255 down 99.9%
Rolling 12m pax
STN = 3,903,227 down 86.1%
MAN = 3,688,509 down 87.4%
EMA = 519,779 down 88.8%
Feb Cargo
EMA = 34,053 up 23.6%
STN = 19,832 up 51.9%
MAN = 4,174 down 41.8%
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Eas Anglia
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Interesting proposals from the FT today in terms of destinations that might be dooable for the summer.
If we do have another summer write off i cannot see how the industry can survive, airlines, airports don't have inexhaustible reserves and i suspect most calculations were based on being back to a level of normality by now.
Hopefully Manchester will capitalise on A TO A destinations where countries at either end are all vaccinated, the US springs to mind if that country reaches a certain critical level.
Dubai is at 74% so may also be reasonable.
Israel as well although it doesn't have the mass market infrastructure.
Singapore also offers hope.
Hopefully MAN are not just sat there "hoping for the best" but are actively scrutinizing these figures, putting forward proposals and talking to Whitehall and the airlines that could potentially fill the gaps in terms of direct service ....and DIRECT service is key.
It will be interesting to see what strategy the government employs and what the board at Manchester is actually doing to ensure it fits into that jigsaw.
Manchester currently has no US service so who are they talking to in terms of rebuilding what was one of the largest markets in Europe after LHR, CDG, FRA and AMS.
Aer Lingus is a good start, the Virgin/Delta axis is another.
Fundamental change is coming, clearly it has to be point to point what we absolutely cannot have is passengers punting onto "cross contaminating shuttles", if airlines "think" they can tap into the mass market of the North by simply bussing passengers by shuttle to Heathrow , " think again" that model is dead.
Hopefully MAN are also thinking along the same lines.
If we do have another summer write off i cannot see how the industry can survive, airlines, airports don't have inexhaustible reserves and i suspect most calculations were based on being back to a level of normality by now.
Hopefully Manchester will capitalise on A TO A destinations where countries at either end are all vaccinated, the US springs to mind if that country reaches a certain critical level.
Dubai is at 74% so may also be reasonable.
Israel as well although it doesn't have the mass market infrastructure.
Singapore also offers hope.
Hopefully MAN are not just sat there "hoping for the best" but are actively scrutinizing these figures, putting forward proposals and talking to Whitehall and the airlines that could potentially fill the gaps in terms of direct service ....and DIRECT service is key.
It will be interesting to see what strategy the government employs and what the board at Manchester is actually doing to ensure it fits into that jigsaw.
Manchester currently has no US service so who are they talking to in terms of rebuilding what was one of the largest markets in Europe after LHR, CDG, FRA and AMS.
Aer Lingus is a good start, the Virgin/Delta axis is another.
Fundamental change is coming, clearly it has to be point to point what we absolutely cannot have is passengers punting onto "cross contaminating shuttles", if airlines "think" they can tap into the mass market of the North by simply bussing passengers by shuttle to Heathrow , " think again" that model is dead.
Hopefully MAN are also thinking along the same lines.
Last edited by Navpi; 23rd Mar 2021 at 08:06.
Join Date: Nov 2019
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CWL757
Starting 23rd May:
Tuesday and Sunday: departs MAN @10.30 arrives PMI @14.10.
Tuesday and Sunday: departs PMI @08.00 arrives MAN @09.40.
PMI based aircraft used (A320).
Starting 23rd May:
Tuesday and Sunday: departs MAN @10.30 arrives PMI @14.10.
Tuesday and Sunday: departs PMI @08.00 arrives MAN @09.40.
PMI based aircraft used (A320).
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Theres no denying, our industry has been decimated. There may well be some long term structural changes on its way and the 787/350 have opened up the possibility of more point to point services. However, to suggest that the 'hub & spoke' model is dead is somewhat premature at best. I think we need to be careful what we wish for here. All the heavies we all love to see at MAN, SQ, EK, QR, EY, TK etc are all "cross contaminating shuttles". Furthermore, if it wasn't for the hub & spoke model, I doubt we would see (for example) QR or SQ and a much thinner schedule from the likes of KL and LH.
You mention Virgin/Delta which again rely upon connections, certainly on ATL and JFK and I think the success of EI will probably rely to an extent on some kind of connectivity stateside.
Short term, there may well be scope to formulate some sort of quasi-charter programme but I would say that is best driven by the tour operators.
You mention Virgin/Delta which again rely upon connections, certainly on ATL and JFK and I think the success of EI will probably rely to an extent on some kind of connectivity stateside.
Short term, there may well be scope to formulate some sort of quasi-charter programme but I would say that is best driven by the tour operators.
Navpi
British Airways hub and spoke = BAD
Everyone but British Airways hub and spoke = GOOD
Emirates, Qatar, Etihad, Singapore, Lufthansa, Swiss, Iberia, even Aer Lingus are all hub and spoke carriers as are all American, Delta and United who I assume you want to see return. OK, so you hate Heathrow, we get it. But let's favour overseas carriers and jobs over UK bases ones is Manchester localism gone too far.
Give your head a shake Bagso. The "dead" model you hate so much would kill connecting traffic on MAN-JFK-FLL/MIA/ORD/LAX/SFO/PHX/PIT/TUC etc etc You're literally asking to support a hub and spoke model, and you don't seem to know it. Unless I've got this wrong and Aer Lingus will be flying daily non stop to all of the above? Is the whole Shamrock fleet coming to MAN to fly point to point?
British Airways hub and spoke = BAD
Everyone but British Airways hub and spoke = GOOD
Emirates, Qatar, Etihad, Singapore, Lufthansa, Swiss, Iberia, even Aer Lingus are all hub and spoke carriers as are all American, Delta and United who I assume you want to see return. OK, so you hate Heathrow, we get it. But let's favour overseas carriers and jobs over UK bases ones is Manchester localism gone too far.
Give your head a shake Bagso. The "dead" model you hate so much would kill connecting traffic on MAN-JFK-FLL/MIA/ORD/LAX/SFO/PHX/PIT/TUC etc etc You're literally asking to support a hub and spoke model, and you don't seem to know it. Unless I've got this wrong and Aer Lingus will be flying daily non stop to all of the above? Is the whole Shamrock fleet coming to MAN to fly point to point?
Last edited by Skipness One Foxtrot; 23rd Mar 2021 at 15:41.
