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Coronavirus Impact on Air Travel

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Coronavirus Impact on Air Travel

Old 10th May 2020, 11:13
  #781 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ZULUBOY View Post
Why is there a need to bring Diane Abbott into this?
Because it's a cheap shot that is getting a bit old now. Funny how those same people have no problem with Priti Patel's disastrous communication and her incompetence.
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Old 10th May 2020, 11:58
  #782 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Vokes55 View Post
Greater impact on our country than where? Even with the current statistics, there are at least three large European countries fairing worse than the UK (Belgium, Spain and Italy), and once all countries report on the same playing field, not only will France almost certainly be added to that list, but the gulf between Spain/Italy and the UK will be even more apparent.

It's only the constant pressure from Left-wing clowns to report deaths contrary to the WHO standard that has given the UK the "highest" number of deaths in Europe. And comparing numbers without considering population size or population density is moronic.
Let's take the world health organisation figures then shall we: (https://covid19.who.int)

UK - 31, 241
Italy - 30, 201
France - 26,188
Spain - 26, 251
Belgium - 8, 521
Germany - 7, 369
Netherlands - 5, 359

It would appear we are still the worst in Europe - with WHO figures.

As for the 14 days quarantine it's a bit too late. Has Priti Patel only just woke up to whats going on? Or realised she's done naff all work for the last 3 months so must do something? Complete and utter waste of tax payers money. She should be sacked from the cabinet and conservative whip should be withdrawn. Most incompetent home secretary this country has ever seen.
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Old 10th May 2020, 12:01
  #783 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Vokes55 View Post
Greater impact on our country than where? Even with the current statistics, there are at least three large European countries fairing worse than the UK (Belgium, Spain and Italy), and once all countries report on the same playing field, not only will France almost certainly be added to that list, but the gulf between Spain/Italy and the UK will be even more apparent.
It's only the constant pressure from Left-wing clowns to report deaths contrary to the WHO standard that has given the UK the "highest" number of deaths in Europe. And comparing numbers without considering population size or population density is moronic.
Well said. It's been disingenuous of the media not to quote the death rate per 1 million of population, but just as raw numbers in order to give a more sensational and negative headline. For the record the rate per 1 million stands today at Belgium 747, Spain 560, Italy 503 and UK 465.
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Old 10th May 2020, 12:07
  #784 (permalink)  
 
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LBAflyer22

Is it that you just don't understand that the death rate per 1 million of population shows which country has the "worst" death rate? Why not put the USA at the top of your list with 80,044 total deaths but a rate per 1 million of 242 which actually puts them well down the list.
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Old 10th May 2020, 12:18
  #785 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52491210

I suggest that ppruners read this before commenting.

Just because some other countries are very bad isn't a get out for the UK.
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Old 10th May 2020, 12:29
  #786 (permalink)  
 
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Gee, let's not argue about death rates. Certainly death rate per head of population is the way to go but that doesn't really help with only three European countries higher than the UK and several including Germany very much lower than us. Of course we will only know the final picture in the years to come when we compare the excess death rates in 2020 over the average for the previous years so it doesn't really serve any purpose to bite into each other from right, left or centre of the political spectrum. We're all in this together and since this is an aviation forum we need to concentrate our energies on sharing information and, yes, even rumours, on the impact on air travel and the aviation sector not try to score petty points off each other. Jeez.....

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...pe-by-country/

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Old 10th May 2020, 12:32
  #787 (permalink)  
 
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The U.K. has been quite strict with recording a death attributed to COVID-19. Belgium far more flexible in the way it records a death. This whole episode I feel will only be able to be properly analysed once it’s completely over.
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Old 10th May 2020, 12:52
  #788 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sharklet_321 View Post
The U.K. has been quite strict with recording a death attributed to COVID-19. Belgium far more flexible in the way it records a death. This whole episode I feel will only be able to be properly analysed once itís completely over.
Agreed. That's my point.
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Old 10th May 2020, 13:15
  #789 (permalink)  
 
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In Spain deaths of people in private homes and senior residences are not being included, say regional officials. So its not all Apples for Apples when making comparisions !!!!
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Old 10th May 2020, 14:28
  #790 (permalink)  
 
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In view of the difficulty in determining how each country compiles those figures I think we probably all have made valid points so maybe it's time to get back on topic and agree to differ on that aspect of the pandemic.
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Old 10th May 2020, 16:28
  #791 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Expressflight View Post
Well said. It's been disingenuous of the media not to quote the death rate per 1 million of population, but just as raw numbers in order to give a more sensational and negative headline. For the record the rate per 1 million stands today at Belgium 747, Spain 560, Italy 503 and UK 465.
The problem is 1. for the UK that is nowhere near the true figure (excess deaths compared to normal is more like 55k and higher per 1m than Belgium) 2. we can argue about measures and comparisons all we want, we are worst in Europe or at best very bad on all of them. This is a massive headache for the UK aviation industry because itís not just us suddenly quarantining itíll be others quarantining us. Not to mention who would want to travel here. Itís quite enlightening looking at how other countries press are reporting us, both left and right wing.
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Old 10th May 2020, 16:56
  #792 (permalink)  
 
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Exactly. So what is best for the UK to do to ensure the survival of an aviation sector? Should we increase subsidising our airlines and airports to keep them alive? Should we ensure that our major aerospace companies remain viable? It seems that much more borrowing will be needed to do this and it will be a brave politician who does it.
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Old 10th May 2020, 17:01
  #793 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by AirportPlanner1 View Post
The problem is 1. for the UK that is nowhere near the true figure (excess deaths compared to normal is more like 55k and higher per 1m than Belgium) 2. we can argue about measures and comparisons all we want, we are worst in Europe or at best very bad on all of them. This is a massive headache for the UK aviation industry because it’s not just us suddenly quarantining it’ll be others quarantining us. Not to mention who would want to travel here. It’s quite enlightening looking at how other countries press are reporting us, both left and right wing.
You'd believe reading this forum and other forums of social media, that it would be nothing but instant death just to set foot outside of the home. As for the foreign press, you'll find that their default settings are: 1) Be critical of the US and everything they do. 2) Be critical of the UK and everything they do. This has always been the way. I guess it deflects from the reality of their own issues.
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Old 10th May 2020, 17:12
  #794 (permalink)  
 
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I think the U.K. governments biggest mistake was not putting AirportPlanner1 in charge. He has all the answers to Covid 19 and is an armchair expert on the subject.

I think he is secretly loving this crisis so he can further his political views.
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Old 10th May 2020, 17:14
  #795 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Spanish eyes View Post
I think the U.K. governments biggest mistake was not putting AirportPlanner1 in charge. He has all the answers to Covid 19 and is an armchair expert on the subject.

I think he is secretly loving this crisis so he can further his political views.
I assume you think Iím correct once more but just donít like to hear it, since again youíve attacked me personally rather than the point made. Pathetic.
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Old 10th May 2020, 17:16
  #796 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The96er View Post
You'd believe reading this forum and other forums of social media, that it would be nothing but instant death just to set foot outside of the home. As for the foreign press, you'll find that their default settings are: 1) Be critical of the US and everything they do. 2) Be critical of the UK and everything they do. This has always been the way. I guess it deflects from the reality of their own issues.
British exceptionalism at its finest
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Old 10th May 2020, 17:42
  #797 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by AirportPlanner1 View Post
The problem is 1. for the UK that is nowhere near the true figure (excess deaths compared to normal is more like 55k and higher per 1m than Belgium)

But not all those excess deaths are due to Covid19. I'd be very wary of making sweeping assertions about who has done this or that better based on published mortality rates given that there is no standardised system of reporting and even when a Covid19 death is reported in many cases it is not based on confirmed testing.
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Old 10th May 2020, 17:51
  #798 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jet II View Post
But not all those excess deaths are due to Covid19. I'd be very wary of making sweeping assertions about who has done this or that better based on published mortality rates given that there is no standardised system of reporting and even when a Covid19 death is reported in many cases it is not based on confirmed testing.
The excess deaths may not be due to Covid19 itís true and I canít say so any more than you or anyone (although the FT report the c55k figure from ONS figures does involve Covid), but it would be a massive coincidence for us to have an unrelated astronomical rise in deaths above what is normal just at the time of a global pandemic.
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Old 10th May 2020, 20:33
  #799 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by AirportPlanner1 View Post
The excess deaths may not be due to Covid19 itís true and I canít say so any more than you or anyone (although the FT report the c55k figure from ONS figures does involve Covid), but it would be a massive coincidence for us to have an unrelated astronomical rise in deaths above what is normal just at the time of a global pandemic.
Surely you would expect a rise in deaths if you restrict access to healthcare for things like coronary and cancer treatment?. That is also what is happening in the US where elective surgeries have been pretty much postponed across the country - so much so that Doctors and Nurses are getting laid off and hospitals going bust.

With regards to the comparison of mortality rates look at Germany's mortality rate which is often held up as an example to the UK.



Now in deaths per million of population Germany is much better than the UK, but it is also much better than Holland who have a similar system of Social Health Insurance and spend almost exactly the same per capita as Germany. So if the figures for Covid are correct what is Germany doing different to Holland and why does that not reflect in a much lower death rate for other respiratory illnesses like seasonal flu where Geramny loses almost exactly the same number of people as Holland when compared for the different size in population.

This is why I would not be taking any of the current published numbers from anywhere as actual proof of anything.
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Old 11th May 2020, 17:41
  #800 (permalink)  
 
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Do we think the (ridiculously late) proposed U.K. quarantine period for international arrivals will include air crews being quarantined for 14 days?
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