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Old 10th Sep 2020, 08:45
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
But this behaviour is in itself distorting the market. It damages customer confidence and stops people travelling - they don't trust airlines to operate the flights they are offering, with issues around refunds making them even less likely to buy.
Indeed. The industry hasn’t helped itself in many aspects along the way. The more this continues, the less likely people will travel. Customer confidence is bruised, to be kicked in the same spot again and again is not helping matters.
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Old 10th Sep 2020, 09:32
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Exactly, most of us understand the difficulties from both the airline and passenger perspectives. However, the circus surrounding getting refunds etc has not helped any confidence in future bookings. If I know I am going to get an instant refund-maybe even automatic instant refund if the flight is cancelled , then I might be inclined to book. So far we have had book with us & if we cancel- good luck spend hours on telephones & wait sometimes up to 6 months for your money- on that basis why should people place further advanced bookings? (I'm not being specific to BA. here, but the industry in general)
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Old 10th Sep 2020, 14:12
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As we all know, every company is fighting 2020 in the way that have fought previous probelms. The problem is that this problem is different to every problem since the Stock market crash of 1929. Therefore, no one knows how to deal with it.

The Telegraph reports today:
British Airways' owner IAG has been given a bloody nose by investors following fury over a £3.2m pay packet for departing boss Willie Walsh.

The firm was hit with a revolt by shareholders controlling 20.6pc of stock against Mr Walsh’s remuneration package, which includes an £833,000 annual bonus and a potential future £5.2m payout in shares. A further 7.8pc of shareholders withheld their votes at the firm's annual meeting.

It comes after BA put more than 22,500 staff on taxpayer-funded furlough and axed up to 12,000 jobs following a collapse in global air travel.

Although IAG’s remuneration report was by around four-fifths of voting shareholders, the company said it was disappointed at the scale of the revolt. It added: “The board will continue to engage with shareholders to fully understand their concerns."
To understand their concerns? Might that be to do with golden handshakes to people who have already earnt platinum amounts of money - whilst those at the bottom of the scale are being made redundant?
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Old 10th Sep 2020, 14:31
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Originally Posted by PAXboy View Post
As we all know, every company is fighting 2020 in the way that have fought previous probelms. The problem is that this problem is different to every problem since the Stock market crash of 1929. Therefore, no one knows how to deal with it.

The Telegraph reports today:

To understand their concerns? Might that be to do with golden handshakes to people who have already earnt platinum amounts of money - whilst those at the bottom of the scale are being made redundant?
Er no WW has a contract with IAG, which should have ended 6 months ago, the business kept him on to try and survive during this.

Now he intends to leave, he is getting paid what was included in his contract, Unions might bitch about it BUT they also know that if they support the ignoring on contractual terms for 1 person then they ignore the contractual terms for all.

Have any BA staff been made redundant where their contractual terms were ignored ?
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Old 11th Sep 2020, 10:35
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
Er no WW has a contract with IAG, which should have ended 6 months ago, the business kept him on to try and survive during this.

Now he intends to leave, he is getting paid what was included in his contract, Unions might bitch about it BUT they also know that if they support the ignoring on contractual terms for 1 person then they ignore the contractual terms for all.

Have any BA staff been made redundant where their contractual terms were ignored ?
No, but all BA staff were threatened with having their current contract and remuneration torn up, then offered a take it or leave it contract with substantially reduced remuneration. Some TU s have engaged with BA and come to a compromise. I see no reason why WW could not have done the same. In the interests of good faith and the survival of the IAG group. But of course, good faith and WW are not words that one tends to use in the same sentence.
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Old 11th Sep 2020, 14:48
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I see a war of words have broken out between BASSA and Mixed Fleet Unite as the latter learned that BASSA proposed BA sack Mixed Fleet cabin crew first before EF & WW crew:

https://www.headforpoints.com/2020/0...ite-civil-war/

This really shouldn’t surprise anyone who has seen BASSA at work over the decades. Yet, it’s still amazing to see BASSA completely incapable of recognising the industry has changed.
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Old 11th Sep 2020, 15:29
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Originally Posted by nguba View Post
I see a war of words have broken out between BASSA and Mixed Fleet Unite as the latter learned that BASSA proposed BA sack Mixed Fleet cabin crew first before EF & WW crew:

.
Can BASSA/BA justify that course of action by claiming it's a rigid application of LIFO?
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Old 11th Sep 2020, 16:04
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Can BASSA/BA justify that course of action by claiming it's a rigid application of LIFO?
As far as I am aware there is no LIFO in cabin crew agreements. MF do have a stand down clause in their contracts which I believe BASSA would have reminded BA of, if the matter was to save money fast.
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Old 11th Sep 2020, 19:43
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
No, but all BA staff were threatened with having their current contract and remuneration torn up, then offered a take it or leave it contract with substantially reduced remuneration. Some TU s have engaged with BA and come to a compromise. I see no reason why WW could not have done the same. In the interests of good faith and the survival of the IAG group. But of course, good faith and WW are not words that one tends to use in the same sentence.
Very big difference, he didn't WANT or NEED a new contract, he is retiring and leaving.
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Old 11th Sep 2020, 21:41
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
Very big difference, he didn't WANT or NEED a new contract, he is retiring and leaving.
And the rules are for the plebs and not the boardroom.
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Old 12th Sep 2020, 09:07
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot View Post
And the rules are for the plebs and not the boardroom.
He is getting rewarded for what he has previously done. There is NO future contract. Unions do no want contracts for work already done to be changed because it applies to all their members.

As IAG is still in business and has weathered the storm during lockdown, he was asked to ensure happens then his work is done.

Divorcing the reality of the future where BA cannot continue to have pay thousands of staff who will not work for the next year, may next two years is not something a single member of management would have wanted.

But intereresing in hearing the alternatives as to an IAG plan going forward when revenue doesn't exist and likely will not exist for a substantial proportion of next year.
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Old 12th Sep 2020, 09:23
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Does anyone know if all the rights issue was fully subscribed? It was sold at a 36p discount at the current share price, so does that mean the shares will drift down to about 165p?
At the rate cash is being burnt £20M pd ? The new money will not last long
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Old 12th Sep 2020, 09:46
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Originally Posted by Walnut View Post
Does anyone know if all the rights issue was fully subscribed? It was sold at a 36p discount at the current share price, so does that mean the shares will drift down to about 165p?
At the rate cash is being burnt £20M pd ? The new money will not last long
£20m per day means diddly squat because it doesn't tell you what it is. Deliberately so. Is it the excess of spending over revenue ? Is is just daily spend on pay?

Getting rid of X thousand will cost money but once it is done it is done and spending post this will reduce. Also means if someone on £40k a year than with NI/Pension/HR it is probably costing another £20k a year minimum to support so there are huge savings. When (IF) you look to replace in an upturn it will be on new terms as well. Longer term for the airline it makes economic sense but not for those employees who have been impacted.

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Old 12th Sep 2020, 11:47
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
£20m per day means diddly squat because it doesn't tell you what it is. Deliberately so. Is it the excess of spending over revenue ? Is is just daily spend on pay?

Getting rid of X thousand will cost money but once it is done it is done and spending post this will reduce. Also means if someone on £40k a year than with NI/Pension/HR it is probably costing another £20k a year minimum to support so there are huge savings. When (IF) you look to replace in an upturn it will be on new terms as well. Longer term for the airline it makes economic sense but not for those employees who have been impacted.

And didn’‘t BA say at the recent AGM they would be cash flow neutral in Q4 (or something like that) obviously assuming situation doesn’t deteriorate.......
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Old 12th Sep 2020, 13:14
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
Very big difference, he didn't WANT or NEED a new contract, he is retiring and leaving.
Many of my colleagues have also recently retired. On statuatory redundancy pay. Not multi million pound golden handshakes. It stinks!
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Old 12th Sep 2020, 13:55
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
Many of my colleagues have also recently retired. On statuatory redundancy pay. Not multi million pound golden handshakes. It stinks!
What was in their contract ? Did BA honour the contract ?
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Old 12th Sep 2020, 21:16
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
What was in their contract ? Did BA honour the contract ?
BA stated that all contracts other than flight crew and senior management were being ripped up, doesn’t matter what was in it, they simply are not interested in honouring the. Perhaps Walsh et al should also have had their contracts ripped up.
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Old 13th Sep 2020, 15:42
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Originally Posted by PC767 View Post
BA stated that all contracts other than flight crew and senior management were being ripped up, doesn’t matter what was in it, they simply are not interested in honouring the. Perhaps Walsh et al should also have had their contracts ripped up.
WW contract is over and there is none going forward.

So what were the words BA stated to employees.
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Old 15th Sep 2020, 10:23
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British Airways to start a new route between London Heathrow and Lahore from 12 October 2020 - 4x weekly flights on B787-8 aircraft

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Old 20th Sep 2020, 11:29
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BA refunds

I see BA are getting criticised on the BBC news website for giving people vouchers when they expressly asked for a refund when going on line. As a former IT ticketing and reservations project manager when will these companies learn if people start shouting that something is not working properly then it damn well isn’t working properly and there is a software fault. Clearly this fault must be complex and occasional which is why it was never discovered during the functionality testing stage.
The post office is a classic example of this having taken to court postmasters who they said were engaged in fraud when it was their accountancy system was wrong.
BA by digging in and denying anything is wrong has the ultimate effect of putting people off booking anything (me included who wants to go to Zurich next year). How the hell will the aviation industry recover when the airlines behave like this?
I hope somebody from BA reads this and sorts this out including giving back these poor people their money. I might book my flight for next year then.

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