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Old 15th Jan 2020, 21:31
  #2821 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by GROUNDHOG
With my local taxpayers hat on, why am I paying Flybe a PSO to operate NQY/LHR in the Summer months when BA will do it for free?
Simple question.
1. they say they will do it...
2. what would you do in the winter?
3. what sort of schedule would they operate and for how long?
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Old 15th Jan 2020, 21:57
  #2822 (permalink)  
 
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I read it differently, that BA had wanted to do a summer LHR-NQY service without subsidy on a commercial basis. This would be alongside, rather than instead of, the PSO but as the route is "closed" due to the PSO, they could not do so. Whether BA would bid for a year-round LHR-NQY with subsidy is a different question that I don't believe has yet been answered - perhaps even by them.
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Old 15th Jan 2020, 23:37
  #2823 (permalink)  
 
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Since the big reason that Flybe are being "saved" is the new buzz word"connectivity", I wonder how many of these important routes will remain once the axe falls on all the loss making routes, of which there must be many? How connecting will they be then? It is wonderful to watch though, lets all get in on the spin for the masses "connectivity" is the word to explain why Flybe can get away with not paying over tax due.
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Old 15th Jan 2020, 23:46
  #2824 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by GROUNDHOG
With my local taxpayers hat on, why am I paying Flybe a PSO to operate NQY/LHR in the Summer months when BA will do it for free?
Simple question.
The answer that I believe FlyBe would give, and that may even be quite true, is that the amount FlyBe will be getting paid to operate the PSA all year round will reflect overall the peaks and troughs of the commerciality of the route, that therefore you will effectively only be paying them to operate it in winter. Further it may even be that case that under the current arrangement, to some extent, in fact the expected profitability of the route in summer subsidises it in winter in a way that wouldn't be possible under BA's proposal. It could be (and in fact may very well be the case) that if BA operated the route in summer and there was a PSA for winter, the overall cost to the taxpayer would be higher and customers would lose the current certainty and year round consistency of the operation.

Uncomfortable with the overall situation though. What next? Another airline decides to not pay over the PAYE deductions and hold them to ransom? The owners decide not to invest money after all but use the time to organise a prepack (or BMI > Loganair style arrangement), and the government loses out anyway?

If APD needs looked at (and I think it should be, I suspect most people here do) then that is a different matter that should be handled prospectively, openly and even handedly; not retrospectively by one operator holding the government to ransom for favourable treatment. People who regard themselves as competitors to FlyBe (which is most UK airlines) must rightly be hopping mad.

Last edited by 01475; 16th Jan 2020 at 00:01.
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 05:12
  #2825 (permalink)  
 
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If Flybe want to be profitable they should start some sort of onboard lottery.
Tell the punters itís all about helping charities but then give a single digit percentage to the charity and pocket the rest.
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 08:35
  #2826 (permalink)  
 
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The airline has been given a temporary safety net,hopefully the airline can sort out a long term plan. Have recently flown with them a few times and they were ok not great but ok.
For keeping the airline going our Secretary of State for Transport has been slated by climate change campaigners.He might be slated or applauded by the campaigners soon as he is due to announce the decision on the development consent order for Manston

Wishing Flybe good luck



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Old 16th Jan 2020, 09:22
  #2827 (permalink)  
 
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So environment campaigners would rather have "big jets" on regional flights rather than small props !
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 09:25
  #2828 (permalink)  
 
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Whether BA would bid for a year-round LHR-NQY with subsidy is a different question that I don't believe has yet been answered - perhaps even by them.
Even if they did, BA currently don't have the right aircraft to operate the route at a useful frequency. In reality it would also need to start the day at the NQY end, which would mean overnighting crews/establishing a base etc. Seems very unlikely to me.
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 11:43
  #2829 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Startledgrapefruit
So environment campaigners would rather have "big jets" on regional flights rather than small props !
And I guess they don't mind all these cargo flights by large, and often more polluting, jets operated by the likes of DHL and that ! :-)
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 12:30
  #2830 (permalink)  
 
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Without all these cargo flights how would they get their new mobile phones? Repeatedly upgrading your mobile is ridiculously CO2 intensive.
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 13:50
  #2831 (permalink)  
 
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As is most trade globally.
Time to stop picking on aviation as some sort of bogie man - what about the world's shipping fleets?.....burning disgusting HFO in their engines, chuck all their waste into the oceans, swill out their tanks while no-one is looking. What about the snowflake generation who complain about the climate but are the first ones to think it's ok to walk around buildings in t-shirts in the winter and demand the heating is turned up because they're cold. You'll find many of these are the same hypocrites bleating about planes.
The prognosis my friends is simple: too many people - humans consume; not enough trees - trees can save us. Stop blaming planes.
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 14:32
  #2832 (permalink)  
 
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Time to stop picking on aviation as some sort of bogie man
Indeed so, I remember an article in the London FT last year that said that the cruise ships owned by the Carnival Corp (brands such as Cunard, P&O, Holland-America, Costa and others) emit 10 times more sulphur-dioxide pollution than all of the passenger cars in the whole of Europe!

Cruise ships in port continue to run their heavy-oil burning engines to generate power in the vast majority of cases. This is a big issue in places like Southampton (the UK's biggest cruise port) where there are increasing calls for technology to be developed to enable them to plug into "shore" power when docked.
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 14:50
  #2833 (permalink)  
 
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I think that the use of such high sulphur fuel was banned from the start of this year.
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 15:29
  #2834 (permalink)  
 
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Looks like MOL is now threatening to take legal action against billionaire owned flybe unless Ryanair gets its own APD Holiday!

https://corporate.ryanair.com/news/r...e-competitors/
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 15:38
  #2835 (permalink)  
 
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I would be fascinated to see how much subsidy Flybe received over the past year on the NQY to London route(s)
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 15:40
  #2836 (permalink)  
 
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For once he is 100% correct.
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 15:40
  #2837 (permalink)  
 
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According to BBC news the NQY to London PSO route will continue. However operations are switching back to LGW from LHR.
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 15:41
  #2838 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by GROUNDHOG
I would be fascinated to see how much subsidy Flybe received over the past year on the NQY to London route(s)
The offer is £2.8m over 4 years to deliver the route, so £58,333 per month or nearly £2000 per day.
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 15:52
  #2839 (permalink)  
 
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The BBC understands that Flybe had been talking to Newquay airport about measures that might mitigate the effects of the change to Gatwick.

Senior industry sources confirmed said the decision to move had now been made and the airline's website has for some time not been selling Newquay-Heathrow flights past the end of March.

The route will, however, still qualify for public subsidy.
Separately, the BBC has learned that Flybe will, also from the end of March, be free to divert many of the Heathrow runways slots it uses for domestic flights to other short-haul services. Flybe was awarded the slots in 2017 as part of "remedy" imposed by competition regulators on British Airways after it bought BMI British Midland.

BA had to surrender the slots - which are highly prized, with pairs selling for £20m or more - as long as the new owner operated them on certain domestic routes. Flybe is, however, free to change to other short-haul routes from the end of March.

Industry sources said it could use those slots for European flights currently operated by its partner airlines - leaving one of its shareholders, Virgin Atlantic, or its partner Delta Air Lines of America, the chance to start new long-haul services from Heathrow.
BBC - Flybe to switch Newquay-Heathrow flights to Gatwick
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Old 16th Jan 2020, 16:07
  #2840 (permalink)  
 
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As I mentioned earlier:
It would appear that, on the face of things, Flybe has burned through £200m in a year. That's the £100m in unpaid APD (calculated by another poster as around 12 months' worth), plus the £100m that Virgin and friends were supposed to be putting in.
Surely losses of that degree are virtually insurmountable - unless of course the rescuers didn't stump up the cash they pledged.....
Now that Stobart (as a public company) has confirmed that the consortium has injected £110m, the total 'burned through' in the year looks like £216m. Astonishing.
Even allowing for the EU waiting six months to agree the deal (why were they even involved?), that's an awful lot of money.
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