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Flybe-9

Old 15th Jan 2020, 11:12
  #2821 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
I've never understood why, in the UK, if I pay for a ticket by credit card it's the CC companies problem if an airline goes bust whereas if I pay by cheque/check or cash it's my problem................
consumer credit act 1974 iirc
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Old 15th Jan 2020, 11:22
  #2822 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
I've never understood why, in the UK, if I pay for a ticket by credit card it's the CC companies problem if an airline goes bust whereas if I pay by cheque/check or cash it's my problem................
This comes from the credit card companies not passing the funds on to the airline (or shop etc) until the goods are actually delivered. For advance payments, like air tickets or holidays, this means they have substantial funds, not the airline. There's a formula of how the funds are released and when, but simplistically the airline gets the cash when the flight is made.
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Old 15th Jan 2020, 11:42
  #2823 (permalink)  
 
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There is a lot of talk about Flybe being vital for the connectivity of the country. Comparing the route map of Flybe and Loganair then there are very few destinations where Flybe is the only operator. Yes granted, with Loganair you probably have less direct flights but you can get nearly everywhere in the country. While Flybe provides a higher frequency there is nothing to stop Loganair picking up some extra airplanes and crew to increase their frequencies.

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Old 15th Jan 2020, 12:48
  #2824 (permalink)  
 
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Bloody Eu now getting involved ......thought we were leaving , Walsh stirring the pot . Some idiot just been on radio saying the goverment has acted illegally .....Ffs they have saved a fantastic airline and thousands of jobs....
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Old 15th Jan 2020, 12:56
  #2825 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CEJM View Post
There is a lot of talk about Flybe being vital for the connectivity of the country. Comparing the route map of Flybe and Loganair then there are very few destinations where Flybe is the only operator. Yes granted, with Loganair you probably have less direct flights but you can get nearly everywhere in the country. While Flybe provides a higher frequency there is nothing to stop Loganair picking up some extra airplanes and crew to increase their frequencies.
Of the route map for Loganair, how many of their routes do they fly on behalf of Flybe?
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Old 15th Jan 2020, 13:11
  #2826 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RogueOne View Post
Of the route map for Loganair, how many of their routes do they fly on behalf of Flybe?
Fair question and I have to say that I don’t know. However as they operate the route for Flybe at the moment then they should be able to keep operating the route if Flybe is no longer.
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Old 15th Jan 2020, 13:15
  #2827 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Brigantee View Post
Bloody Eu now getting involved ......thought we were leaving , Walsh stirring the pot . Some idiot just been on radio saying the goverment has acted illegally .....Ffs they have saved a fantastic airline and thousands of jobs....
You answered your own question. We are leaving the EU. That means we are still in the EU.

And Flybe, are clearly not a fantastic airline.
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Old 15th Jan 2020, 13:17
  #2828 (permalink)  
 
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Brigantee

Totally agree that 1000s of jobs may have been saved, at least in the short, very short term, but on what do you base your statement that Flybe is a fantastic airline. It has been mismanaged for years, is losing money at a staggering rate, has a reputation worse than any other UK airline, and will be back in the same position in a matter of months. Fantastic?
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Old 15th Jan 2020, 13:24
  #2829 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SealinkBF View Post
You answered your own question. We are leaving the EU. That means we are still in the EU.

And Flybe, are clearly not a fantastic airline.
We leave in a couple of weeks, walsh is to late.......
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Old 15th Jan 2020, 13:48
  #2830 (permalink)  
 
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Brigantee, would please answer the question I asked you yesterday?

You stated that Flybe were in the state they are in due to unfair competition from easyJet and Ryanair. I ask you to substantiate that accusation but so far you haven’t answered.

Would you please now answer the question?
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Old 15th Jan 2020, 13:52
  #2831 (permalink)  
 
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We leave in a couple of weeks, walsh is to late.......
I'd be surprised if we aren't following EU rules on State Aid during the Implementation Period

Last edited by SWBKCB; 15th Jan 2020 at 14:13.
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Old 15th Jan 2020, 13:55
  #2832 (permalink)  
 
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Flybe pay staff well and they have excellent terms in stark contrast to other airlines who don’t have such a social conscience this inevitable puts unfair costs into the business the likes which ryanair don’t have ....it ain’t rocket science
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Old 15th Jan 2020, 14:12
  #2833 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Brigantee View Post
Flybe pay staff well and they have excellent terms in stark contrast to other airlines who don’t have such a social conscience this inevitable puts unfair costs into the business the likes which ryanair don’t have ....it ain’t rocket science
Nothing to say about that as I don’t even know where to start!
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Old 15th Jan 2020, 15:06
  #2834 (permalink)  
 
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Lots of smoke a mirrors around all this.

Presumably, the owners have put forward a credible plan for how the arrears of APD will be cleared, within the timeline agreed, and the Government have bought this.

End game, will be a reduction (or maybe some abolition) of APD with no (or minimal) reduction in fares, thus improving margins and yields. That may be where cash flow to clear some of the arrears will come from.

The FlyBe brand is now more toxic, than ever, and the re-branding needs to happen ASAP. That said, if it should all go belly-up again, in 12 months, I can't see Virgin wanting their brand to be dragged through the mud.
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Old 15th Jan 2020, 15:09
  #2835 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
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another forum says that FlyBE will take ownership of slots at Heathrow in 2 and a half months and there is a 3 month extension for APD which may be rolled forward.
These slots will become assets at that stage and will either be sold to the highest bidder or directed to Virgin. If so, you have to wonder why Virgin won't put up the working capital rather than generating all this adverse publicity.
Here is what they said:
I checked the terms of the LHR / BMI remedy slots at address : ec.europa.eu/competition/mergers/cases/decisions/m6447_20120330_20212_2452290_EN.pdf

[1.3 Grandfathering of Slots 1.3.1As a general rule, the Slots obtained by the Prospective Entrant from IAG as a result of the Slot Release Procedure shall be used only to provide a Competitive Air Service on the Relevant City Pair for which the Prospective Entrant has requested them from IAG through the Slot Release Procedure. These Slots cannot be used on another city pair unless the Prospective Entrant has operated the Relevant City Pair for which these Slots have been transferred for a number of full consecutive IATA Seasons (“Utilisation Period”). 1.3.2The Prospective Entrant will be deemed to have grandfathering rights for the Slots once appropriate use of the Slots has been made on the Relevant City Pair for the Utilisation Period. In this regard, once the Utilisation Period has elapsed, the Prospective Entrant will be entitled to use the Slots obtained on the basis of these Commitments exclusively to operate services on any European Short-haul City Pair or the Identified Long-haul City Pairs (“Grandfathering”).

On order to obtain grandfathering rights on their LHR slots Flybe will have to continue operating these routes for 3 IATA seasons.

They started operating the routes in March 2017 flybe website location /media/news/1612/20 so they will obtain these rights in 2 and a half months.

If Flybe make it that far they will own an additional saleable asset. If they can sell these slots then they can settle any APD liability. It seems notable to me that the period of the deferment is 3 months rolling.

The press states that Stobart and Cyrus don't want to put in any more money. It wouldn't surprise me if the £100m + investment is coming from VS to purchase those slots outright.
those slots outright.
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Old 15th Jan 2020, 15:09
  #2836 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by compton3bravo View Post
My theory is that the government will reduce the APD on domestic flights and increase it on long haul flights to make up the difference. The APD is expected to bring in just short of £4 billion and the government needs every penny.
.
I think i may have support on an aviation forum to say Ditch the HS2 project and you will have more than enough to compensate for loss on APD for domestic flights - use the plane not the train .
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Old 15th Jan 2020, 16:52
  #2837 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by manx crab View Post
They could I presume reduce/remove APD from domestic flights from non London airports and increase APD for domestic flights from London airports.

After all the best alternatives, such as they are in Britain, are available to/from and around London
That’s too simplistic. Don’t forget most London airports have their own local market which also isn’t in London and may not be any better connected than say Exeter or any better off economically. Yes Glasgow might be ‘only’ 4.5 hours on the train from Euston but if you’re living in Brighton or Ipswich it might take you a couple of hours just to reach Euston.
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Old 15th Jan 2020, 20:10
  #2838 (permalink)  
 
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With my local taxpayers hat on, why am I paying Flybe a PSO to operate NQY/LHR in the Summer months when BA will do it for free?
Simple question.
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Old 15th Jan 2020, 20:30
  #2839 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
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Originally Posted by GROUNDHOG View Post
With my local taxpayers hat on, why am I paying Flybe a PSO to operate NQY/LHR in the Summer months when BA will do it for free?
Simple question.
BA has stated they would only operate seasonally.
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Old 15th Jan 2020, 20:31
  #2840 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Originally Posted by GROUNDHOG View Post
With my local taxpayers hat on, why am I paying Flybe a PSO to operate NQY/LHR in the Summer months when BA will do it for free?
Simple question.
1. they say they will do it...
2. what would you do in the winter?
3. what sort of schedule would they operate and for how long?
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