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Flybe-9

Old 14th Jan 2020, 12:59
  #2761 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SealinkBF View Post
I would say NI would be OK, easyJet have flown from BHD before and it used to be a Loganair stronghold. I think the demand is there.

I am convinced Flybe is being allowed to fail so that Connect Airways can re-employ staff more cheaply, renegotiate airport contracts etc. as Virgin Connect. With Dash 8s.
I don't disagree, but given the profile now, aren't we heading into "unacceptable face of capitalism" territory ?
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Old 14th Jan 2020, 13:14
  #2762 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by V12 View Post
(Similarly if FlyBe fails the CI residents will suffer: AUR isn't that healthy, and ACI has already seen its service deteriorate.)
That said it's a tall order to subsidise and yet avoid boosting the profits of other airlines and the pockets of airline investors, and keeping the green agenda going. Above my pay grade, that one.
Aurigny may not be healthy but it is for ever plugged into a very secure life-support system called the States of Guernsey and therefore is safe. Public sector ownership does have its benefits :-)
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Old 14th Jan 2020, 13:33
  #2763 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by c52 View Post
Agree with the above by inOban.
Am I a terrible cynic to think that a £100m loan from the government will mostly end up in someone's pocket as the airline goes out of business a few months later?
I must be a cynic too, if this payment is deferred, it will never be seen again in the form of a payback to the Gov. I really feel for the frontline staff throughout all this, its disgraceful from the people above and in charge at Flybe. If any other major company were to default on tax payments the Gov would come down hard on them, not technically "let them off the hook" which is what could happen with all this.
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Old 14th Jan 2020, 13:58
  #2764 (permalink)  
 
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Flybe is vital for the UK and the goverment wonít allow it to fail , Iím confident we will get the funding we deserve thus enabling us to continue and carry on giving the great service to places the likes of easy jet wonít provide a service
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Old 14th Jan 2020, 14:10
  #2765 (permalink)  
 
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Why does Flybe deserve funding? Most of their routes are not vital either. They have been failing for years. Any government investment will end up in the pockets of the owners and the airline will still collapse.
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Old 14th Jan 2020, 14:12
  #2766 (permalink)  
 
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APD should be ring-fenced in separate accounts - much in the same way solicitors ring fence client accounts
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Old 14th Jan 2020, 14:24
  #2767 (permalink)  
c52
 
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If you are providing a vital service and practically have a monopoly and you are still making a loss, then maybe the service isn't vital at all.

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Old 14th Jan 2020, 14:32
  #2768 (permalink)  
MDS
 
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Originally Posted by Brigantee View Post
Flybe is vital for the UK and the goverment wonít allow it to fail , Iím confident we will get the funding we deserve
Why does your inept management team deserve a government bailout?

Why shouldn't Virgin group, Stobart group, and Cyrus Capital Partners provide the funding?

Considering they screwed the shareholders by paying a paltry £2.8m, why isn't the Connect consortium rushing to provide funding to keep such a 'vital' airline afloat?

I don't feel the taxpayer should be held liable to pay for Flybe's managements awful decision making.



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Old 14th Jan 2020, 14:44
  #2769 (permalink)  
 
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Brigantee, you have my sympathy for the position you find yourself in.

Unfortunately I have to agree with previous posters that apart from a few services, Flybe is not vital to the UK. As I have said on another thread, the government should not get involved in the running of a PLC. If the government provides a lifeline now, does that also mean that if Flybe ever becomes profitable the government will get a profit share?

At the risk of repeating myself, the founders of the Connect Airways consortium are not short of money so why come to the government? If they are sure that their turnaround plan will work then they would have stumped up the cash themselves. Their current practice is a good way of getting another £100 million from the tax payer to line their pockets.

If a company canít be self sufficient then their is only option available.
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Old 14th Jan 2020, 14:47
  #2770 (permalink)  
V12
 
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Originally Posted by c52 View Post
If you are providing a vital service and practically have a monopoly and you are still making a loss, then maybe the service isn't vital at all.
Might be worth thinking that through one more time!
"Vital" and "Monopoly" don't always sit square with "Profit". You need to consider "Cost" "Breakeven" and "Lack of economies of scale" for starters. More detailed answers are available from any good Business School.
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Old 14th Jan 2020, 15:00
  #2771 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by c52 View Post
If you are providing a vital service and practically have a monopoly and you are still making a loss, then maybe the service isn't vital at all.
Like the commuter rail services around London and the southeast you mean?
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Old 14th Jan 2020, 15:26
  #2772 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Brigantee View Post
Flybe is vital for the UK and the goverment wonít allow it to fail , Iím confident we will get the funding we deserve thus enabling us to continue and carry on giving the great service to places the likes of easy jet wonít provide a service
Brigantee, I can't help but feel "deserve" is the wrong word in this case - "need" may be a better alternative. Beyond that, if the government does decide to give Flybe some wriggle-room through relaxation of APD, I think it should demand assurances that the airline won't come back cap-in-hand again in a year or two's time (i.e. such concessions need to backed by a robust business plan and guarantees from the parent organisation) - no private airline should "need" (or "deserves") ongoing support from HMG.
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Old 14th Jan 2020, 15:29
  #2773 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CEJM View Post
At the risk of repeating myself, the founders of the Connect Airways consortium are not short of money so why come to the government? If they are sure that their turnaround plan will work then they would have stumped up the cash themselves. Their current practice is a good way of getting another £100 million from the tax payer to line their pockets.
Indeed... Where has the £100m that was promised when the takeover was announced gone? Has it not been produced? Has it already been burned? If the former, the new owners need to explain why they have not injected the funding they said they would. If it is the latter and Flybe has already burned through £100m, how long is another £100m of respite going to last before the begging bowl comes out again?
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Old 14th Jan 2020, 15:29
  #2774 (permalink)  
c52
 
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that's certainly a good point.
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Old 14th Jan 2020, 17:03
  #2775 (permalink)  
 
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Seems a deal has been reached with HMG to keep them trading.

https://news.sky.com/story/cabinet-t...ckage-11908144
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Old 14th Jan 2020, 17:04
  #2776 (permalink)  
 
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What people tend to forget is flybe are in this postion because of unfair completion from the likes of easy jet and Ryanair , this needs addressing .
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Old 14th Jan 2020, 17:12
  #2777 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Brigantee View Post
What people tend to forget is flybe are in this postion because of unfair completion from the likes of easy jet and Ryanair , this needs addressing .
Good news that Flybe has been saved. Please explain why easyJet and Ryanair provide unfair competition?

It is also a bit rich claiming unfair competition while at the same time enjoying a deferral of paying a years worth of APD to the government. The airlines you mention above have both paid the APD as required instead of using it to keep the company afloat.

Last edited by CEJM; 14th Jan 2020 at 17:25.
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Old 14th Jan 2020, 17:13
  #2778 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Brigantee View Post
What people tend to forget is flybe are in this postion because of unfair completion from the likes of easy jet and Ryanair , this needs addressing .
Whats unfair about easyJet and Ryanair?
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Old 14th Jan 2020, 17:14
  #2779 (permalink)  
 
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Glad theyíve been saved; not just for the many employed over course, but the airline is unique throughout the U.K.

That said, I Hope U.K. Plc is braced for many legal challenges from the likes of those mentioned above.
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Old 14th Jan 2020, 17:15
  #2780 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot View Post
Seems a deal has been reached with HMG to keep them trading.

https://news.sky.com/story/cabinet-t...ckage-11908144
Whilst the article has been updated at 18:00 today, it does not mention that talks have been successful.
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