Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

Flybe-9

Old 13th Jan 2020, 21:51
  #2681 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: London
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Says that a deal hasnít been done and that thereís a possibility it could still fold, but they need assurance from Connect Airways tomorrow over finances.

Hopefully positive news
flyerguy is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2020, 21:56
  #2682 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 8,356
Received 55 Likes on 37 Posts
Sky News has learnt that Andrea Leadsom and Grant Shapps will meet Mr Javid to discuss the proposed terms of a bailout of one of Britain's largest regional airlines. Insiders said that the government had informed Flybe's three shareholders that they would be required to inject "tens of millions of pounds" in fresh equity into the company as a condition of any deal. Under the proposals, Flybe, which carries eight million passengers annually, would be allowed to defer this year's estimated air passenger duty (APD) bill of £106m for three years.
However, people close to the process warned on Monday night that there was considerable urgency surrounding the talks between the owners of Connect Airways, Flybe's parent, and the government. "There is no guarantee that the company will be saved," said one. "The survival prospects have improved but Its not out of the danger zone." A decision is expected to be taken about deferring Flybe's APD liability during the course of Tuesday. Whitehall sources say they are confident that such a move would not breach EU state aid rules or UK tax law, and that the primary consideration is an assessment of whether the company will ultimately repay the APD it owes.

Virgin Atlantic, Stobart Group and Cyrus Capital Partners, which collectively took control of Flybe's assets last March, are understood to have resolved in principle to commit the capital being sought by the government as a condition of a rescue deal.

Sky - Cabinet trio to thrash out £100m Flybe rescue package
SWBKCB is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2020, 21:57
  #2683 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by NorthEasterner
G-JECX (DUS Based) is operating as normal with a 35 minute departure delay being on the ground for 2HRS - would they have sent this aircraft out of UK to DUS if they were to cease?
G-PRPC (EMA Based) was diverted to BHX and has since re-positioned back to EMA to be in position for tomorrow's AMS.

I am aware of delays mainly to BHD aircraft due to weather which has affected other airlines.
G-JECX wasn't on the ground for two hours, it made a go-around due to the weather and held for about an hour before landing at BHX, landed back into DUS just 10 minutes behind schedule was on the ground in BHX about 50 minutes I think. Nothing unusual there - just the storm playing havoc.
BOHEuropean is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2020, 22:31
  #2684 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by flyerguy
Says that a deal hasnít been done and that thereís a possibility it could still fold, but they need assurance from Connect Airways tomorrow over finances.

Hopefully positive news
This is not positive news if you are a taxpayer or have to compete on an uneven playing field in a competitor airline.
Schoenheit is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2020, 22:34
  #2685 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Copenhagen
The APD is collected from the passenger by the airline on behalf of the government. It is not FlyBe's money to hold onto.
interesting point .. is this true ?
poppiholla is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2020, 22:35
  #2686 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: London
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by poppiholla
interesting point .. is this true ?
Yes it is, this is what itís all about
flyerguy is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2020, 23:02
  #2687 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: UK
Age: 53
Posts: 1,405
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
if TCX didn't pay it would they have survived? Yet government help was declined. Seems odd they'd intervene with another private airline regardless of 'regional connectivity' arguments
VickersVicount is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2020, 23:14
  #2688 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by VickersVicount
if TCX didn't pay it would they have survived? Yet government help was declined. Seems odd they'd intervene with another private airline regardless of 'regional connectivity' arguments
The 'regional connectivity' arguments are precisely what this is all about. To take just one example: England southwest of Bristol would be virtually an air-transport-free zone without flybe.
jensdad is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2020, 23:18
  #2689 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ballymena
Posts: 1,431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
why was this money not paid over? I know of lots of coffee shops etc that collected VAT from customers, didn't pay it over and when they were found out, they were bankrupted by HMRC. How do you describe money collected from passengers, but not paid as expected to HMRC? I hope this outfit don't survive and I realise the implications of what I am saying for all the staff involved. That does not make me proud. But the top management here knew what they were doing and I don't believe this money will ever be paid. But no doubt the top management have continued to collect their top salaries.

Disgusted.
True Blue is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2020, 23:19
  #2690 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In a house
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
How much are the CEOs of said owners being paid including bonuses for this expert governance ?
Surely Virgin can put a decent amount of it's own money in or that of it's parent Delta.
​​​​​​What next ?
Will the likes of Debenhams or Beales no longer have to pay business rates ?
Will other UK domestic carriers also be exempt from paying APD for 3 years ?
ExpectmorePayless is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2020, 23:24
  #2691 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ballymena
Posts: 1,431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
what about all the other business that have gone bankrupt, of all types, that would still be here if they had been able to hold on to our vat? Can you imagine the requests that could follow from this if they decide to do this.
True Blue is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2020, 23:36
  #2692 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Another way of looking at this (without the risk of turning this into a political discussion). With the Conservatives being the party of business they probably won't to see a British (predominantly business) airline go to the wall. I'm fairly sure that lots of MPs will use BE when travelling to & from Parliament therefore the Government will do what they can to salvage this. How many MPs would have used TCX though?
sinbad73 is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2020, 23:51
  #2693 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: BMA
Posts: 1,025
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by sinbad73
Another way of looking at this (without the risk of turning this into a political discussion). With the Conservatives being the party of business they probably won't to see a British (predominantly business) airline go to the wall. I'm fairly sure that lots of MPs will use BE when travelling to & from Parliament therefore the Government will do what they can to salvage this. How many MPs would have used TCX though?
While the Conservatives are a pro-business party, most are free market thinkers and donít support Government intervening. However, Grant Shapps, the transport minister is a pilot himself and I imagine heíd be more supportive of airlines. MPs wonít vote on the basis if they use Flybe over Thomas Cook. They were different operations. Flybe supports many rural communities (as their only connection) such as Cornwall, Belfast and Isle of Man. Thomas Cook took people to Malaga.
BA318 is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2020, 23:55
  #2694 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by BA318
While the Conservatives are a pro-business party, most are free market thinkers and donít support Government intervening. However, Grant Shapps, the transport minister is a pilot himself and I imagine heíd be more supportive of airlines. MPs wonít vote on the basis if they use Flybe over Thomas Cook. They were different operations. Flybe supports many rural communities (as their only connection) such as Cornwall, Belfast and Isle of Man. Thomas Cook took people to Malaga.
I'm very aware of the difference between the 2 carriers and of the very different sets of circumstances as well as the different markets they serve. More Parliamentary staff use BE than TCX though therefore possibly more of a reason for intervention?
sinbad73 is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2020, 23:59
  #2695 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ballymena
Posts: 1,431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
What? Flybe provides the only connection to Belfast. I think some of you should have a look at the Easyjet route map out of Belfast. How many routes flown by Flybe are also covered by Easyjet? All the main ones!
True Blue is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2020, 00:39
  #2696 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: BMA
Posts: 1,025
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by True Blue
What? Flybe provides the only connection to Belfast. I think some of you should have a look at the Easyjet route map out of Belfast. How many routes flown by Flybe are also covered by Easyjet? All the main ones!
I didnít mean it was Belfastís only connection (that was more aimed at Cornwall and Isle of Man) but it still plays a big role there.

As as far as Parliamentary staff, basically only the MPs travel and where possible lots of them wonít fly because it looks bad and those who do often prefer BA because they can earn some points and get booze in the lounge. I know of the Cornwall MPs most use the train.
BA318 is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2020, 00:51
  #2697 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: London UK
Posts: 7,610
Likes: 0
Received 13 Likes on 11 Posts
Originally Posted by nguba
Is it possible to do a pre-pack administration without forfeiting the AOC?
Yes. The first one to do this was British Air Ferries (BAF) at Southend in 1988.
Originally Posted by True Blue
what about all the other business that have gone bankrupt, of all types, that would still be here if they had been able to hold on to our vat? Can you imagine the requests that could follow from this if they decide to do this.
Well, that's up to a government to decide. I'm sure we've all seen countless government schemes and concessions announced that we personally seem not to qualify for, by income, where we live, wrong sort of car, whatever.

Last edited by WHBM; 14th Jan 2020 at 01:02.
WHBM is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2020, 06:01
  #2698 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Severnside
Age: 35
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Lots of arguments forming here around apparent political motivation to save Flybe, when so many other private companies have been exclusively left to fail under basic market principles. Even in the air transport sector Monarch and particularly Thomas Cook provided salaries for a vast number of citizens, but were allowed to sink beyond trace without public intervention.

Rank poor, fat cat ineptitude should never be bailed out by the public purse irrespective of cosmetic arguments. The market will always facilitate the void to be filled by a sustainable business.

Certainly if Government use some form of emergency argument to bankroll Flybe short term they would need to be very transparent around the fairness and equitability of the vehicle used. For example a holiday on or total removal of domestic air tax in the UK expressly to keep Flybe in the air would need to be applied fully and equally to all other UK domestic air services - easyJet, BA, Ryanair etc. Or the scheme will be rightfully - and very likely successfully - challenged in court!
Cozy F is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2020, 06:14
  #2699 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 8,356
Received 55 Likes on 37 Posts
BBC Radio 4 'Today' programme reporting that the govt is looking at abolishing APD for all domestic routes - as well as helping BE, helps their 'regional connectivity' agenda. Nice windfall for BA, etc...
SWBKCB is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2020, 06:23
  #2700 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Denmark
Posts: 418
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
They can't abolish for domestic routes without abolishing for all of Europe.

The Irish government was fined over this exact thing. Johnson has decided to follow EU rules for another 12 months.

​​​​​​Bailing out a VC who hasn't paid their taxes... Stinks of cronyism. Flybe is Britain's Air India

Expect a nice legal challenge from Ryanair, Loganair and easyJet over market distortion.
Copenhagen is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.