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Old 25th Jul 2018, 16:40
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Originally Posted by mik3bravo View Post
Well said, Sober Lark.

Most pilots ending up at ATPL levels, have pursued flying as a career which is often born from having years of passion to fly. So I certainly do not buy it when I hear union representatives sexing up their agenda to create an illusion of widespread discontent amongst the flight crews.

FR offer a pilot B737 type jet time and good as experience plus healthy salary levels too. Some go on to other airlines where they can get into the longhaul space flying heavies.

I think the unions in particular and their representatives need be extremely careful in how they push this because ultimately they are fighting a lost battle that has now actually placed pilots job security at definite risk right now. There will be redundancies and personal endebtiness defaulting on pilot tuition loans, mortgages, car loans and so on.

Plus the public opinion towards their cause is not on the unions side or the couple of pilots pushing for more love and touchie feelie workplace culture.

Some people are blind to seeing just how good they actually have it but there again, herd mentality and peer pressure can be cancerous.

There is always a batch of rookies eager to get into that right seat and with no interest in union activation, these rookies just want time on type and good pay and satisfying their passion for flight. Unions totally do not get that.

Sober Lark
There are plenty of forums where you can read how badly Ryanair has treated it's Staff, it's not only about pay to the average outsider (that works for an Airline) but more about recognition and respect. Sadly its been missing for many years.
Ryanair are good at spinning. They will tell you Pilots only work an average of 23 hours a week - shock horror you'll say. That's 23 flight hours so doesn't include the time to report for duty, the turn round time and to go off duty so more like 55 hours a week.
They will tell you that they stop flying every Christmas day so their Staff can be at home. They won't tell you the main reason is their Cabin Crew are paid shite so cannot afford a car and guess what the bus services don't run on Christmas day.
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Old 25th Jul 2018, 18:33
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Originally Posted by Mr Angry from Purley View Post
Sober Lark
There are plenty of forums where you can read how badly Ryanair has treated it's Staff, it's not only about pay to the average outsider (that works for an Airline) but more about recognition and respect. Sadly its been missing for many years.
Ryanair are good at spinning. They will tell you Pilots only work an average of 23 hours a week - shock horror you'll say. That's 23 flight hours so doesn't include the time to report for duty, the turn round time and to go off duty so more like 55 hours a week.
They will tell you that they stop flying every Christmas day so their Staff can be at home. They won't tell you the main reason is their Cabin Crew are paid shite so cannot afford a car and guess what the bus services don't run on Christmas day.
I work about 50+ hours a week too, any overtime unpaid. Thats expected at a certain salary level and not anywhere near a pilots salary. A lot of people do. I also often work Christmas, I've no choice in that, but it rotates year on year. Don't get me wrong, I know Ryanair are not perfect by any stretch, I know that from friends who work for them, but the narrative portrayed by unions is always ott. Same for Irish teachers as one example, the train drivers, the bus drivers, the Luas drivers.

The sympathy from the general public has waned massively in recent years because people are sick of listening to it and being inconvenienced by unions looking for more and more....when comparitively their members are not doing too bad at all
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Old 25th Jul 2018, 18:44
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Mik3bravo

You support all that is going wrong with capitalism at the moment. Ryanair makes about 1.4m euro annually in profits, no doubt top management make millions. Why should they not look after their employees? It is your type of thinking that has got many people thinking that capitalism is rotten and you can see the rise in that thinking in elements of the Labour party now. Workers in the UKhave not seen a rise in their real pay for 10 years now, that is not the story with top management who have filled their boots, usually at the expense of the ordinary worker. Ryanair has treated their staff like dirt for years, now they are getting back what they deserve as a company. It is time that profits and good working conditions were shared a bit more equally around all employees. Ryanair are just a bully of a company, eventually employees will tire of that treatment and stand up for themselves. Good for them. Decency goes a long way, some day you might be glad of someone showing you some.
So what you are saying is that Ryanair are paying the people less than 10 years ago in UK................. so what was Ryanair paying then.

As for claiming no real pay rise..................... Even Minimumwage has gone up by 42% V Inflation by 32%.
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Old 25th Jul 2018, 19:07
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All I can say is that I was glad to be in a strong union with some of the governor's I worked for. As for one two O'Leary I I would probably have lasted five minutes at the most. I would hazard a guess that some on hear who blame everything on unions probably all so-called Thatcher's children. As for working unpaid overtime (unless you are a manager) you realise you are doing charity work for your employer.
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Old 26th Jul 2018, 00:17
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FR reaping what they’ve sown. Good luck to the DUB crews affected by today’s threat in finding jobs with more progressive airlines soon.
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Old 26th Jul 2018, 08:06
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Arrow

Originally Posted by oapilot View Post
FR reaping what they’ve sown. Good luck to the DUB crews affected by today’s threat in finding jobs with more progressive airlines soon.
I'm with Ryanair on this stance. No passengers want to see a service end up being so unionised like in France where your flight might be running if someone isn't on strike, where it might get off the ground if ATC isn't on strike, where you might make the flight if the trains are not on strike...

Ryanair only recognised unions 7 months ago so give them a chance. In passing I note much of Forsa's own website is still 'under construction' - that's really leading by example.
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Old 26th Jul 2018, 09:54
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If you have to travel with them I get you siding with the airline. Fortunately I donít so from an outsiders perspective itís interesting to watch an airline that routinely treats its passengers and crew with contempt get the rough end of the stick for a change.
As for the published salary stunt, letís see the figures for the lowest paid pilots and crew in those countries, and in the interest of balance, how much training debt they have outstanding.


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Old 26th Jul 2018, 12:02
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Originally Posted by oapilot View Post
If you have to travel with them I get you siding with the airline. Fortunately I donít so from an outsiders perspective itís interesting to watch an airline that routinely treats its passengers and crew with contempt get the rough end of the stick for a change.
As for the published salary stunt, letís see the figures for the lowest paid pilots and crew in those countries, and in the interest of balance, how much training debt they have outstanding.


Unfortunately it's not interesting to watch how Unions destroy their own.
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Old 26th Jul 2018, 13:37
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Nor watching employers treating their staff with utter contempt, to maximise profits.
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Old 26th Jul 2018, 13:58
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There are plenty of other industries where leading companies push for growth, profits, stock market favourable sentiment and stock value, and shareholder& investor returns, and many have these tensions between employees and the company.

This is standard in many industries and just because Ryanair is so high profile doesn't mean they are any worse or better than other companies, It just means they are more so in the public eye.

Ryanair are a massive Irish Inc. success story who have created '000 of jobs and spin--off employment to the real economy both in Ireland and the UK and across other European regions.

Employees wilfully and in full knowledge and complete transparency accepted job offers from Ryanair under employment contract T&C's which are transparent.

Now it seems some employees want to move the goal posts and see they can alter their T&C's without realising for every action, there will be an equal and opposite reaction.

The self entitlement attitudes of some employees is tedious and unacceptable in a modern buoyant economy. These employees are paid well for an honest days work, they have benefits too. But now it seems they want to bite the hand that feeds them.
Moronic attitudes and reckless clueless union officials will destroy economic prosperity of the individuals they allegedly represent.

Unions attempting to take on a massively successful powerhouse is frankly dumb ass granstanding. The exchequer returns will ultimately take a hit due to lost tourism and reduced travelling passenger numbers. Ultimately, employees are putting their own job security at significantly high risk now.

None of these clowns see the macro impacts - all in it for themsrlves and fcuk the rest of society and the European travelling citizens.
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Old 26th Jul 2018, 14:15
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Originally Posted by Sober Lark View Post
Unfortunately it's not interesting to watch how Unions destroy their own.
with most reasonable employers I would be inclined to agree with you. Iím no fan of unions I worked in the UK in the 70ís and witnessed first hand the damage by the NUM steel workers and RMT, but the likes of BALPA are a white collar Union not an offshoot of the communist party.

what you do not grasp is that we are mobile employees, in the main very flexible I spend 2 in 5 nights in hotels, not complaining my employer Norwegian pays for the hotel and my breakfast, ditto my staff car park, pension, private medical, sick pay, holidays and in flight meals so I,m a happy bunny and yes I earn the sort of money reported by Ryanair, hell I even get free water and coffee during the flight, I have trained dozens of ex Ryanair pilots, they get none of this, sleeping in crew rooms, even in airport lounges is common, parking their cars in know freebie car park often belonging to companies that have nothing to do with Ryanair.

on the positive side Ryanairís training is first class ditto the safety record, we all know we are only as safe as our last flight, the stupid thing is Ryanair could be a great company to work for and still make massive profits for its shareholders.

people castigated Oíleary I donít heís only the white zit on top of a pool of poison, he has to face down the unions and I wouldnít bet against him, think of Assad he has to kill his opponents or be killed by them.

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Old 26th Jul 2018, 15:55
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Originally Posted by INKJET View Post


with most reasonable employers I would be inclined to agree with you. Iím no fan of unions I worked in the UK in the 70ís and witnessed first hand the damage by the NUM steel workers and RMT, but the likes of BALPA are a white collar Union not an offshoot of the communist party.

what you do not grasp is that we are mobile employees, in the main very flexible I spend 2 in 5 nights in hotels, not complaining my employer Norwegian pays for the hotel and my breakfast, ditto my staff car park, pension, private medical, sick pay, holidays and in flight meals so I,m a happy bunny and yes I earn the sort of money reported by Ryanair, hell I even get free water and coffee during the flight, I have trained dozens of ex Ryanair pilots, they get none of this, sleeping in crew rooms, even in airport lounges is common, parking their cars in know freebie car park often belonging to companies that have nothing to do with Ryanair.

on the positive side Ryanairís training is first class ditto the safety record, we all know we are only as safe as our last flight, the stupid thing is Ryanair could be a great company to work for and still make massive profits for its shareholders.

people castigated Oíleary I donít heís only the white zit on top of a pool of poison, he has to face down the unions and I wouldnít bet against him, think of Assad he has to kill his opponents or be killed by them.

Inkjet, reasonable reply thank you. My guess is that Ryanair will invest in workers and like Delta they will become one of the least unionised airlines in the world. But at present I feel a Union that can't even build their own web site in 6 months is demanding too much from a company that only recognised unions 7 months ago.
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Old 26th Jul 2018, 16:08
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Employees wilfully and in full knowledge and complete transparency accepted job offers from Ryanair under employment contract T&C's which are transparent.

Now it seems some employees want to move the goal posts and see they can alter their T&C's without realising for every action, there will be an equal and opposite reaction.
This was also 100% true of sending we'ans up chimneys.
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Old 27th Jul 2018, 09:58
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot View Post
This was also 100% true of sending we'ans up chimneys.
thanks for that one Skipness 1F made me chuckle this morning 😂😂😂
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Old 27th Jul 2018, 12:36
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Had friends returning from Rome to Stansted Tuesday evening,
there flight was cancelled after 6 hrs in a que to get to the desk, they were told no flights until Saturday, and that flight wasn’t guaranteed to operate, they were given NO vouchers for meals, NO hotel accommodation, in fact they were told to find their own alternative flight to London no help what so ever NO transportation to FCO they finally got flights with Easyjet into LGW at a cost of almost £500 for the two of them.
they told me it was like a war zone, people with kids groups of young travelers with no money left over and they were all told no help will be provided by Ryanair and more or less to go away.

I just don’t know how Ryanair is getting away with this.
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 00:21
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IAG group of airlines & others do the very same thing. Itís not just Ryanair. Hotels, buses, trains etc are at the same practice.
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 09:05
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Well over many years I've had cancellations with Lufthansa, I have never been left alone, always re-routed even on different alliances etc. If necessary good quality hotel plus meal and vouchers and transfers, and friendly ground staff too.
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 09:25
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Compared to a low cost airline ticket price, I'd say you paid a more expensive ticket price with Luftansa for the chance one day you need a hotel bed and hot meal.

You are not comparing like with like.

People buy a cheap low cost airline ticket for £19 or something ridiculously cheap and then expect Emirates and Marriot hotel services when it goes wrong.

People need to wake up. You know what you're getting into when you buy a low cost ticket. Personally I would never use any low cost airline unless as last resort. I certainly have never and will never use any of them for holiday travels especially if you are travelling with children, yet there are people out there who do it and know full well the chances they take but are thrilled to book their Sun holiday family flights for as cheap as chips but go nuts when it goes wrong.

You get what you pay for and if you want better services then pay for it with other carriers.

Honestly I can't get my head around why people can't figure out these basics at all!

Likes of Ryanair are ok if you are travelling alone or with a partner, got no children or toddlers travelling, and cabin bag luggage only. Beyond that, it's Russian Roulette I'm afraid and people need to understand that.

As for the strikers - they've got an ok job, they want more, more isn't available. So the choice is simple transactional. You want more then go elsewhere to an employer who provides more but stop screwing up the European holiday makers - It's quite disgusting self centered behaviour by these striking workers and their militant unions.
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 09:29
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As I understand it, they don't want more money. They just want to be treated as partners in the business, as human beings, rather than as cogs in a machine.
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 09:32
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I get that but it ain't going to happen. They need to get over it and move on. Find alternative employment elsewhere where they feel more valued or loved or whatever soft touchie feelie bs these people want to help them feel actualized.
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