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Old 26th Sep 2017, 14:30
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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I bet the Newcastle passengers wish DTVA would take Newcastle diversions like the olden days. Bus from Edinburgh or Prestwick must have been a pain.

Suppose it must also be the choice of the airline.
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Old 26th Sep 2017, 18:42
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Generally MME is a good place to divert to, if they are open. Assuming they are you also best have a contract in advance to stop yourself paying over the odds for handling. But if you do get in they are pretty good at dealing with the unusual.
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Old 26th Sep 2017, 18:57
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Assuming they are you also best have a contract in advance to stop yourself paying over the odds for handling.
Presumably why the NCL divs went to places they currently operate from?
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Old 26th Sep 2017, 20:57
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Generally MME is a good place to divert to, if they are open. Assuming they are you also best have a contract in advance to stop yourself paying over the odds for handling. But if you do get in they are pretty good at dealing with the unusual.
copied from NCL thread (Maybe should be here..):

Newcastle had also taken in at least two Ryanair Diversions destined for Liverpool and one Jet 2 scheduled to Leeds Bradford due to fog at those airports earlier.
Wonder if DTV was equipped (Fire/Emergency/Border staff etc...) to take 737s and logistics for onward transition of passengers at the times all this played out?
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Old 26th Sep 2017, 21:06
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Both the inbound Eastern Jetstream 41 from ABZ and KLM Fokker 70 from AMS have diverted to NCL this evening due to Fog at MME.
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Old 26th Sep 2017, 23:13
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Unfortunately it's not pre-2000 anymore and diversions go to the nearest airport where they have an operational presence, and not the nearest airport geographically (except in emergencies of course)
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Old 27th Sep 2017, 06:34
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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I may be wrong but I'm sure airlines generally pre plan their diversions..usually as stated to other bases where they operate from.Hence the fuel uplift is pre arranged before departure to take diversion into account?

DTV is at a major disadvantage in that they have limited facilities exacerbated by frequent ATC closures,limited AFS cover(although not being notamned at moment?) and airport opening hours. Probably taking all into account not the best planned diversion airport?
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Old 27th Sep 2017, 23:18
  #28 (permalink)  
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Airlines pre-plan their diversions for the event of an emergency, but if they are in a position to choose, then they will.

DTV is at a minor disadvantage at the moment, we do not have limited facilities overall, we have temporary ATC closures whilst a new radar controller is trained up, something which takes time due to the intricate nature of the role, and despite June being quoted fire cover is still set to go up to CAT6. Opening hours are sufficient.
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Old 28th Sep 2017, 09:37
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Whenever the weather looks a bit iffy you generally put on more fuel and at the same time ask your operations department where they would prefer you to end up, before you depart. But when it comes time to divert, reality sometimes gets in the way. Like a couple of 747 diversions using all the local buses, ramps being fuel due to previous diversions etc. So generally what happens is if you don't have direct contact with your company in the air (ACARS, satellite phone etc.) you call your handling agent and get them to call your company in your behalf. But with an emergency you go wherever you need to and tell your company after the event, if they don't already know.
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Old 28th Sep 2017, 18:37
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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N707ZS(Post 21) Diverted Passengers wishing the aircraft would go to DTV ,,Hits a nerve as Probably 50% of the aforementioned passengers are from Teesside!!! And that's what makes PEEL s running of the airport a disgrace!

Unless of course you blinkered guys can yet again come up with your rise tinted glass views on how well and promising the future looks??
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Old 28th Sep 2017, 19:02
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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I fly for an airline out of Newcastle so thought I'd give an insight into why MME is no longer used as a diversion.

When planning our flights, we have a fuel alternate and several commercial alternates. The fuel alternate is primarily used to allow us to depart with a lower fuel figure (commercial realities!). A commercial alternate will be chosen if there is a strong likelihood of a diversion It will be typically a base or company destination as the facilities are already in place to help on the ground.
We used to plan MME as a Fuel diversion because it required less fuel than EDI. I've also diverted into MME twice when NCL was closed (snow).

Unfortunately, due to the variable Fire Fighting Cover and limited opening hours, MME doesn't even appear in the company lists as a diversion airfield anymore. My last diversion (due to a thunderstorm) was into LBA.

Will this ever change?? The words chicken and Egg come to mind!

It's such a shame to see MME as it is - I did my PPL, instructing and some biz jet stuff there before moving north.
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Old 28th Sep 2017, 20:30
  #32 (permalink)  
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Highwide, shut up and come back when you've got some pubes. Whilst there may be a tiny tiny bit of truth to your post, I've never seen such over-exaggerated baloney in all my life! In fact, Peels performance of late has been outstanding, most days are busy (by our standards anyway), Consort are truly delivering the goods in the bizjet department even excluding the grouse hunters, they're doing a cracking job on the terminal and big things are known to be coming, but hey, no doubt you equally-blinkered, tinted glasses wearing spammers will come up with further tripe on how doomed the future looks...
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Old 28th Sep 2017, 20:33
  #33 (permalink)  
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Flyit Pointit Sortit - an insightful post. As mentioned the fire category is going back up, and opening hours are good enough to (potentially) capture 90% of diversion traffic. I find it very hard to believe about MME not appearing in company lists...if there was to be a mishap and it's found it could have been avoided because an aircraft travelled further than needed because MME wasn't listed, the airline would be crucified
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Old 28th Sep 2017, 21:02
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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if there was to be a mishap and it's found it could have been avoided because an aircraft travelled further than needed because MME wasn't listed, the airline would be crucified
Seriously....
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Old 28th Sep 2017, 21:23
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Robert-Ryan View Post
if there was to be a mishap and it's found it could have been avoided because an aircraft travelled further than needed because MME wasn't listed, the airline would be crucified
For info, on commercial aircraft, an en-route alternate needs to be within 1 hour flight time. On the A319, that is 380 miles. A destination alternate has no limit as long as you have enough fuel to get there, hold and make an approach.

PS. Airlines won't be crucified. It is a Captains decision. Currently I could only divert to MME in an emergency such as if I was on fire or about to run out of fuel.
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Old 28th Sep 2017, 21:35
  #36 (permalink)  
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I stand corrected on that particular aspect of diversions
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Old 29th Sep 2017, 06:34
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Robert..don't get personal!! The facts as officially reported and stated...movements are down and passengers are down consistently.What are PEEL doing to arrest this?
I don't think a handling agent generates traffic..or very little.They come because they want to.DTV has always been at its busiest for biz traffic between August and November..it's an historic fact.
It's called realism,sorry.
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Old 29th Sep 2017, 13:01
  #38 (permalink)  
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Highwide if you think that's me getting personal you don't want to see me genuinely get personal! Just as I was starting to build a bit of respect towards you, you go and drop an inflammatory/derogatory post that requires an aggressive response.

Yes the statistics show movements and passengers are down, but my superiors at the airport are unconcerned (unconcerned is the wrong word, but I'm struggling to think up a more appropriate alternative right now) because they have identified the reasons and are actively addressing them. Furthermore, the team behind the movements website come across as unconcerned in their own report, and I trust all of these experts and professionals a damn sight more than I trust a post on PPRuNe!!

Movements will be up for August and September, I don't think anyone can doubt that. FBO handling agents can attract traffic, I recall Weston stealing business from both Manchester and Stansted before they became complacent and to repeat myself there has been growth in business aviation both including and excluding hunting movements since Consort took over
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Old 29th Sep 2017, 14:11
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Ouch!

Not sure what response if any ,there should be.

I stick to official CAA statistics.
I'm sure I'm not the only one awaiting the turning of the corner.As yet it's not there?
The only positive news this year on the airline front is Loganair..I'm sure we all await to see what positive effect it has.
You mentioned a while ago part 2 of Peels master plan will be announced soon..again looking forward to the announcement and again the positive effect it has.
Finally also looking forward to your airport superiors coming forward with positive news?

Don't think anything to upset you too much there?
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Old 29th Sep 2017, 14:19
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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and to repeat myself there has been growth in business aviation both including and excluding hunting movements since Consort took over
Be interesting to see the numbers when they're published, but while appreciating that Peel are looking to build a broad base of business, how much do biz jets add to the bottom line?
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