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Southampton-2

Old 14th Aug 2020, 12:55
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To claim the B752 as THE example to extol SOU/TFS ops tho is surely pretty invalid...It is a unique aeroplane in terms of performance is it not...
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Old 14th Aug 2020, 13:24
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Originally Posted by southside bobby
To claim the B752 as THE example to extol SOU/TFS ops tho is surely pretty invalid...It is a unique aeroplane in terms of performance is it not...
Merely indicating that SOU/TFS has already happened, albeit with a somewhat exceptional aircraft. That said on a least one occcasion an en-route tech stop for fuel was necessary due to exceptionally strong head winds.

If a A319/320 is going to be able to carry an economic load the northern extension and the improved take-off/climb environment are apparently the way forward to make this happen.
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Old 14th Aug 2020, 14:04
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Originally Posted by TCAS FAN
Can SEN do it with a similar TORA? I believe that the answer is "yes". Look at the opportunities available with a capability to operate a 3.5 - 4.0 hour sector length.

If a A319/320 is going to be able to carry an economic load the northern extension and the improved take-off/climb environment are apparently the way forward to make this happen.

As for TFS, its already been done off the current runway and its trees off the south end, by TUI's (nee Thomson) B752s.
Hi There TCAS,
the venerable 757-200 is quite a different beast (and a beautifully versatile powerful one at that) and as you may know 752's operate unrestricted in and out of tiny Skiathos and Mykonos - even before JMK's runway was extended by 450m to 1900m.
IE: No tech stops needed on the way back to UK from JSI or JMK.
But a full or busy 737-800 and A320/321's returning back today from JSI to UK all have to tech stop at some place like Volos Lemnos SKG Kavala or Corfu if they cannot take enough fuel on out of JSI.
This makes for a 3 sector day, limiting and reducing flight crew hours, plus the extra handling costs, so unless the Tour Operator is running the extra sector as a split load, it costs more.
Sunvil does this - Pax on at LGW for both JSI and Lemnos, stops at JSI first to drop off pax, and to pick up home-bound pax, then stops at Lemnos to do the same, and fuels up there for LGW.

So, SOU-TFS-SOU was fine on the 757-200.
No tech stops usually needed on the outward flight, unlike today where a full A320 even to Malaga, let alone TFS would be Take Off weight limited at SOU and thus would need to pick up fuel on the way or lose seats. May even be ZFW limited. Again another 3 sector crewing day.

The Easy Jet short SKI flight SOU to GVA has even been payload limited at times with both the A319, but less so on the better performing A320.

Volotea did PMI-SOU-PMI (and IBZ) with their A319 (up to 150 seats) There have been occasions when many bags have been left behind.
These are Thomson (TUI) summer package holiday flights. Folk will not book SOU again if that happens to them.

SOU-TFS can also be done by 737-200/300/400/500 & 700 usually without much issue as was seen in the past (Air Europa Air Malta Orion IEA Palmair and Thomson were such)

We shall miss seeing the 757's around (FYI a 757-300 could not use SOU or JSI/JMK)

SEN is not SOU - SEN has spent ££££ on grooving and other runway improvements, and they do not have the clearway & obstacle issues like SOU.
Ryanair have been flying SEN-CFU
and EZY to the Canaries with some payload restrictions. (less 10-15 saleable seats penalty)

Before Covid-19 SOU were very upbeat with the runway starter extension going ahead & this could open up new routes with the existing types as you say in your second post flying further.
Canaries and Greek Islands were not mentioned, nor was the mention of all ''leisure routes'' but I got the impression that nearer European destinations were the idea.

Recovery for SOU from post-Covid aviation (& coping with the loss of Flybe) it is critical for its core business and connectivity routes to blossom again.
I think any plans for SOU-TFS right now are definitely staying in the bottom drawer.

Last edited by rog747; 14th Aug 2020 at 14:39.
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Old 14th Aug 2020, 18:29
  #2444 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Reversethrustset
​​
Can you see the irony & double standards in your post here Rivet? You can't have it both ways, so which is it?
Not when I qualified my statement with a N.B. If you look at my posts I always resist the urge to mention BOH or get involved with the tiresome debate on which is better, even when all the trolls appeared from under their rocks during BEs demise. I mentioned it in my last post merely to support my long held believe that there is serious and unwavering value put in SOU by the aviation industry. LM, T3 and BI could all have opened at BOH or at least their competing routes but they have not. This is not intended as a dig at BOH, it is obviously the closest airport to SOU so is the most obvious yardstick for my point. The fact that serious and unwavering value is present is why the runway works will continue even in the tumultuous times we find ourselves in. The management will be talking to airlines all the time and as I have long mentioned on this forum I strongly feel that EZY will have told SOU that they will open a base when the works are completed. I would also not be surprised that SOU knew BE were going to disappear long before it happened and that it is also a driving force behind the planned works. Why else plan to convert all the stands next to the terminal for larger aircraft. Yes I know that is not part of the current application but it shows what SOU are moving towards.

I am not sure why there is a focus on TFS, bucket and spade routes are likely to continue to be a marginal part of SOUs business, maybe the odd route to Greece or The Canary Islands. EZY will target city breaks to Barcelona, Prague, Milan, Madrid etc from SOU. These are all places that the relatively wealthy people of the South go to even for just a weekend. The problem is that they all have to drive to LGW or even STN to get a low priced ticket.

As for opinions, I have always championed this forum as somewhere people can say whatever they like. The only issue I have had is with one poster who cuts and pastes the same negative post and has done so for as long as I can remember. He is of course free to post that but unfortunately people take the bait and this thread is derailed back into the same tiresome arguments. Which is bizarre, as there is no negativity on any of the other airport threads on here, some of which have a lot less to feel positive about than SOU. Whilst I am glad that people are starting to resist taking the bait, I am now merely raising the point that it is unfair that I am the only one policing this thread and that the other balanced posters need to step up to the plate.

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Old 14th Aug 2020, 19:21
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Rivet,
Your continued theory of Easy opening a base at SOU after the Runway extension( if it ever happens) makes no sense,in the these very troubled times of the pandemic no airline is going to open a base in an airport that has runway restrictions,limited aircraft parking and above all a customer base for Sun routes.Bournemouth with all the creditals will struggle to offer such a service.It may be that SOU might survive in the short time with its limited domestic routes,however this will be unsustainable.As with Barcelona,Milan etc as future destinations ,many have tried this in the past,it never worked and won't in the future.
Your rose coloured spectacles need to be adjusted and your troll accusations retracted.
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Old 14th Aug 2020, 19:29
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Maybe you two should just get a room? Might solve all your problems...
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Old 14th Aug 2020, 19:36
  #2447 (permalink)  
 
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I take it you have (RW20) registered your support for the runway extension on the Eastleigh BC planning site despite the opinion the airport is doomed!
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Old 14th Aug 2020, 19:38
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Which is bizarre, as there is no negativity on any of the other airport threads on here
Aberdeen and Glasgow ? Also owned by AGS !
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Old 14th Aug 2020, 20:00
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I feel like an intruder here, living at the other end of the country, but I don't think that EZY will open a base. What they are likely to do is fly into SOU from their many bases in cities throughout Europe.
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Old 14th Aug 2020, 22:33
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Good bit of news from Easy jet

Extra flight added on a Saturday morning to Geneva for the winter season
Bit of a grim time though out of Geneva which might put some people off

Obviously taking up demand from Flybe which had 2 flights on a Sat , shows there is a demand hopefully

Last edited by MARKEYD; 14th Aug 2020 at 22:52.
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Old 15th Aug 2020, 13:30
  #2451 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MARKEYD
Good bit of news from Easy jet

Extra flight added on a Saturday morning to Geneva for the winter season
Bit of a grim time though out of Geneva which might put some people off

Obviously taking up demand from Flybe which had 2 flights on a Sat , shows there is a demand hopefully
A no brainer if SKI hols can get back to pre-Covid before then - after all SAT is GVA day!! always was...
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 08:39
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I must say I always want to call "foul" when people try to sell an airport expansion as supporting "X" number of jobs. Any airport ive been in over the last few years has been shedding front line jobs at a staggering rate. Scan and drop our own bags, check in at home etc.Even Heathrow T5 there is a noticeable lack of staff for anything. How many of the jobs that were promised when T5 was going through planning still exist? So, 500 extra jobs is SOU expand??? Is that over the number employed 5 years ago? Immediately pre covid? Or above the current numbers employed during a pandemic??
I like Southampton as a sleepy regional airport, the way Luton used to be before it became an overcrowded nightmare, so it's a no from me on the expansion front.
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 16:22
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Originally Posted by adfly
Things are continuing to look up, so feel as though another update is overdue. Have summarised the current operation then listed any increases by date over the next few weeks.

Currently:

Aurigny

Guernsey - 5 weekly AT7/E95

Blue Islands

Jersey - 7 weekly AT7

Eastern (2x ATR72-600 based)

Belfast City - 5x weekly AT7
Leeds Bradford - 5x weekly J41
Manchester - 5x weekly AT7
Newcastle - 5x weekly AT7

Loganair

Edinburgh - 5x weekly ER4
Glasgow - 5x weekly ER4 (via EDI!)
Newcastle - 4x weekly ER3


From 27/07:

Aurigny

Guernsey - 7x weekly (2x Tues and Thurs for day returns)


From 03/08:

Eastern

Manchester - 9 weekly (2x Mon-Thurs)

Loganair

Edinburgh - 7x weekly ER4
Glasgow - 5x weekly ER4 (now non-stop)
Newcastle - 6x weekly ER3


From 17/08:

Eastern

Dublin - 5x weekly AT7 (new route)


From 31/08:

Aurigny

Alderney - 14 weekly D28 (from 01/09)
Guernsey - 14 weekly AT7 (from 01/09)

Blue Islands (1x ATR72-500 based)

Dublin - 4x weekly AT7 (new route)
Guernsey 12x weekly AT7 (from 01/09)
Jersey - 13x weekly AT7
Manchester - 7x weekly AT7 (new route)

Eastern (2x ATR72-600 based)

Belfast City - 7x weekly AT7
Dublin - 6x weekly AT7
Leeds Bradford - 6x weekly J41
Manchester - 17x weekly AT7
Newcastle - 11 weekly AT7

KLM Cityhopper

Amsterdam - 7x weekly E75 (new route)

Loganair

Aberdeen - 5x weekly ER3 (via NCL)
Edinburgh - 18x weekly ER4
Glasgow - 18x weekly ER4
Newcastle - 17x weekly ER3


From 07/09:

Eastern

Aberdeen - 4x weekly J41 (via MME)
Leeds Bradford - 15x weekly J41
Teesside - 10x weekly J41

Let me know of anything I've missed!
Adfly- you’re mustard at these timetables, approx how many daily flights will there be departing SOU from early Sept? Cheers

Last edited by SKOJB; 16th Aug 2020 at 16:41.
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 21:02
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Quite a hard one to judge as it varies from day to day - and weekends are a lot quieter.

A quick dig around would leave it as having around 25-30 on weekdays, and around 10 on a Saturday (quietest day). Long way to go but still good progress compared to where it has been over the past few months.
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 21:33
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Originally Posted by adfly
Things are continuing to look up, so feel as though another update is overdue. Have summarised the current operation then listed any increases by date over the next few weeks.

Currently:

Aurigny

Guernsey - 5 weekly AT7/E95

Blue Islands

Jersey - 7 weekly AT7

Eastern (2x ATR72-600 based)

Belfast City - 5x weekly AT7
Leeds Bradford - 5x weekly J41
Manchester - 5x weekly AT7
Newcastle - 5x weekly AT7

Loganair

Edinburgh - 5x weekly ER4
Glasgow - 5x weekly ER4 (via EDI!)
Newcastle - 4x weekly ER3


From 27/07:

Aurigny

Guernsey - 7x weekly (2x Tues and Thurs for day returns)


From 03/08:

Eastern

Manchester - 9 weekly (2x Mon-Thurs)

Loganair

Edinburgh - 7x weekly ER4
Glasgow - 5x weekly ER4 (now non-stop)
Newcastle - 6x weekly ER3


From 17/08:

Eastern

Dublin - 5x weekly AT7 (new route)


From 31/08:

Aurigny

Alderney - 14 weekly D28 (from 01/09)
Guernsey - 14 weekly AT7 (from 01/09)

Blue Islands (1x ATR72-500 based)

Dublin - 4x weekly AT7 (new route)
Guernsey 12x weekly AT7 (from 01/09)
Jersey - 13x weekly AT7
Manchester - 7x weekly AT7 (new route)

Eastern (2x ATR72-600 based)

Belfast City - 7x weekly AT7
Dublin - 6x weekly AT7
Leeds Bradford - 6x weekly J41
Manchester - 17x weekly AT7
Newcastle - 11 weekly AT7

KLM Cityhopper

Amsterdam - 7x weekly E75 (new route)

Loganair

Aberdeen - 5x weekly ER3 (via NCL)
Edinburgh - 18x weekly ER4
Glasgow - 18x weekly ER4
Newcastle - 17x weekly ER3


From 07/09:

Eastern

Aberdeen - 4x weekly J41 (via MME)
Leeds Bradford - 15x weekly J41
Teesside - 10x weekly J41

Let me know of anything I've missed!

Looks like some slippage of expected start dates and schedule increases further into September:

Loganair: Schedule increase from one daily to two daily flights now appears to be taking effect on Sun 13th for EDI, Mon 14th for GLA and NCL.
Blue Islands: Jersey increases to two daily flights from 31st August, Guernsey begins on 21st September with two daily flights (one on Sat and Sun).
Aurigny: Alderney starts on 21st September, Guernsey returns to two daily weekday flights on the same date (one Sat, two Sun)
Eastern Airways: Teesside still down to start on the 7th September. Manchester currently only 2x daily Mon-Wed, goes 2x daily on Thur from 28th Aug, Sat & Sun flights begin on 12th September, Friday goes 2x daily from 23rd October. Dublin now not starting until the 18th September. Belfast City Sunday flight starts on 6th September, goes 2x daily from 26th October. Leeds Bradford Wednesday flight starts from 26th August, Sunday flight starts on 6th September, goes 3x daily from 7th. Newcastle Sunday flight starts on 6th September, goes 2x daily from 25th.
KLM: still on sale from 31st August but time will tell whether that happens now that the Netherlands are on the quarantine list.
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 22:29
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There was a lot of information in my previous post, thought I'd try to put it into a better format so I've amended Adfly's previous update:

From 27/07:

Aurigny

Guernsey - 7x weekly (2x Tues and Thurs for day returns)


From 03/08:

Eastern

Manchester - 8 weekly (2x Mon-Wed)

Loganair

Edinburgh - 7x weekly ER4
Glasgow - 5x weekly ER4 (now non-stop except Saturday)
Newcastle - 6x weekly ER4

From 26/08:

Eastern

Leeds - 5x weekly J41 (new Wednesday flight)


From 28/08:

Eastern

Manchester - 9 weekly (2x Mon-Thur)


From 31/08:

KLM Cityhopper

Amsterdam - 7x weekly E75 (new route)

Blue Islands

Jersey - 13 x weekly AT7 (2x Sun-Fri, 1 x Sat)

From 01/09:

Loganair

Glasgow - 6x weekly ER4 (new Tue flight)

From 07/09:

Eastern

Leeds - 15 weekly J41 (3x Mon-Thu, 2x Fri, 1x Sun)
Aberdeen - 4x weekly J41 (via MME)
Teesside - 10x weekly J41 (M-F)

From 12/09:

Eastern

Manchester - 11 weekly AT7 (new Sat & Sun flights)

From 13/09:

Loganair

Edinburgh - 13 weekly ER4 (2x Sun - Fri, 1x Sat)

From 14/09:

Loganair

Glasgow - 13 weekly ER4 (2x Sun - Fri, 1x Sat)
Newcastle - 11 weekly ER4 (2x M-F, 1x Sun)

From 21/09:

Aurigny

Alderney - 14 weekly D228
Guernsey - 13 weekly AT7 (2x daily M-F and Sunday)

Blue Islands

Guernsey - 13 weekly AT7

From 25/09:

Eastern

Newcastle - 11 weekly AT7 (2x daily M-F)

All no doubt subject to further change of course!

Last edited by The Nutts Mutts; 21st Aug 2020 at 07:27.
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Old 17th Aug 2020, 16:55
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Rivet Joint
Please take note at what's happening at Southend with Easy pulling out !
Your Easy idea of them opening a base at SOU in the near future has got to be a complete fantasy.
Continue in your dream world,but don't criticise realist contributors!
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Old 17th Aug 2020, 17:25
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Originally Posted by RW20
Rivet Joint
Please take note at what's happening at Southend with Easy pulling out !
Your Easy idea of them opening a base at SOU in the near future has got to be a complete fantasy.
Continue in your dream world,but don't criticise realist contributors!
Can the pair of you please take your polarised arguments to DM's. It ruins an otherwise pleasant thread.
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Old 17th Aug 2020, 20:55
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Originally Posted by adfly
Can the pair of you please take your polarised arguments to DM's. It ruins an otherwise pleasant thread.
Couldn't agree more
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Old 17th Aug 2020, 21:22
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The airport passed a small but pretty significant milestone today: over 500 passengers were carried for the first time since the 4th of March, the last day that Flybe operated.
That day just over 3000 passengers passed through the airport, so current numbers are around a sixth of what went before, with total movements including bizjets between 25 and 30% of the previous winter average.
The long and slow climb back from the deepest crisis in the airport's history continues. I'm hoping we'll see over 750 daily passengers sometime in September and the 1000 mark passed sometime in October.
All I'll say is well done to those working to bring SOU back from the brink, and long may the progress continue.
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