MANCHESTER 1

[MANFOD]

Surely there must be room to put some more stands in , you are doing so well must be time for a new apron somewhere or is there simply no area to put this ?

Hi Nigel. MAN is finally getting back to the passenger levels of its record years in 2006/7, and yet last summer we were 12 stands down as two areas of apron were being used as additional car park space at the northern end of the T2 apron, about 10% of the total stands. This winter, 5 stands were put put back for a/c use (one of which was for storing equipment I believe) but an earlier poster indicated these would again revert to car parking this summer.*

In terms of aircraft parking, to get all 12 stands back would be a start. In terms of additional stands beyond that, I guess 2 possibilities would be to extend the T2 apron further north into what was the original (smaller) car park or to the east of the Terminal 2 building (which is also a car park). But space has to be found somewhere for public and staff cars, and as you may know, a new facility (with 9,000 spaces when fully operational) has been opened off Ringway Road just over a mile from the terminals.

Of course, the much rumoured major infrastructure development and timescales involved may well inhibit much in the way of piecemeal changes in the meantime. Also, I gather from those far more knowledgeable than I that the taxiway layout leaves a lot to be desired as far as the expeditious movement of aircraft on the ground is concerned.

How does all this impact on MAN's ability to continue to grow over the next few years, and then while major work is carried out, is a good question. We can accommodate more aircraft and passengers if only airlines like easyjet, ryanair and some foreign carriers would obligingly fly into MAN during quieter periods of the day, but that has to suit their needs and those of the passengers.

The opening of new security desks in T1 to ease the flow of passengers is a good and necessary move in the light of queues early morning at certain times last summer. We wait to see what the airport will do about the parking and movement of aircraft.

* Edit: Can anyone confirm whether or not those 5 stands are reverting to car parking this summer?

[spacedog]

Egypt Air

Egypt air are showing operating from July 2nd initially 3 times a week going up to 5 weekly with B737-800. On their website under timetables

[LAX_LHR]

Egyptair are also bookable across many platforms.


Great to see this airline back!

[MANFOD]

Egyptair are also bookable across many platforms.

Wasn't their withdrawal thought to be some sort of bilateral issue rather than related to the situation in Egypt?

Anyway, excellent news that MAN is back in their schedules and bookable.

[nigel osborne]

Mant thanks MANFOD and good luck with getting all the stands back.

I did read on here few months back that a new surface car park had been built nearby to alleviate the parking issues , or have I got that wrong ?

Seems just crazy to use apron space for a car park.


Nigel

[MANFOD]

I did read on here few months back that a new surface car park had been built nearby to alleviate the parking issues , or have I got that wrong ?

That would be the one with 9,000 spaces that is at least partially open near Heald Green. I think it is a car park for passengers (and allegedly a few places for spotters). Not sure what the plans are for staff parking.

Incidentally, re. my mention of the possibility of a/c stands to the east of T2: I seem to recall seeing a plan which effectively made T2 double sided for part of its length i.e. providing contact and not just remote stands. Whether that was part of an official option or more a sketch by someone making a suggestion, I don't remember. That space between the vehicle exit road from departures level and the T2 structure is a car park at present, for staff I assume.

[brian_dromey]

How many parking spaces fit in a standard airport stand? Lets assume its a wide body stand, so something like 65mx80m, fits something around 208 spaces (using standard UK space size of 2.5mx5m with a 6m road). Assuming that the airport averages £35 a week and fills 75% of those spaces the annual income PER STAND is somewhere in the region of £300,000. For five stands that would be approaching £1.5 million.
Given the substantial discounts operators get on published parking charges, rebates, etc I suspect passengers pay for parking their cars is much more profitable than airlines parking their aircraft!

I do have to wonder though. In years gone by (lets say 2007, the previous peak) where did people park? Did more people get a lift/taxi/public transport to the airport? Or maybe use 3rd party parking?

[MANFOD]

Given the substantial discounts operators get on published parking charges, rebates, etc I suspect passengers pay for parking their cars is much more profitable than airlines parking their aircraft!

I imagine you are right, and when traffic was well down for 4 or 5 years it was probably a very good move. The irony in a way is that 5 stands were returned for a/c parking for the winter, but presumably it's because there is less demand for car parking at that time of year. What is perhaps more surprising is that in summer, when there are much more aircraft movements (with less a/c just parked up) and more passengers, with the extra revenue they both produce for the airport, it is the increased demand for car parking that gets priority.

That said, nobody has yet confirmed that the 5 stands are definitely reverting to car parking this summer, and with traffic continuing to grow surely there must come a point when more stands are justified, not 12 less than what we had 10 years ago.

[LAX_LHR]

The stands amd car park is a pardox though.


Increased flights = more passengers
more passengers = more cars
more cars = more stands turned into car parks (at MAN anyway)


But then from the other side


more stands turned into car parks = more cars
More cars = more passengers
more passengers = increased flights (but now not enough stands)


What irks me is not that MAN sees a good revenue in car parking, its the fact they know they have stand shortages (hence the regular no divs notams), but, they own so much land that could be used as car parking (MAG own the land adjecant to the logistics hub for example, as well as the land in the triangle between the railways, and lots of brownfield land in Heald Green), yet, aircraft stands, for aircraft, the reason the cars are there in the first place, is deemed the best solution?!?!

[kieb92]

Another forum reporting that Austrian have applied for a 6 weekly MAN-VIE from September. Daily ex Wed.

Would be great to see them on a route which is doing well considering the loads Jet2 have.

[Betablockeruk]

Austrian, Iberia and LOT. Serial Manchester 'visitors'.

Hope Austrian stay with it this time and allow the service to bed in.

[eggc]

Can we add Alitalia to the visitors lists ? Sure they are due back soon !

[brian_dromey]

It does seem counterproductive to have more passengers, but less stands.
But there are a few things to consider.
- Airlines are now squeezing more seats into aircraft, I think BA and LH are in the region of CY168 on their A320s, which 10 years ago would have been something like CY150.
- More airlines are using larger aircraft too, the A321 seems much more popular thee days than the A320, for example, although the 757 is slowly dying a sad death, similarly the 738 is replacing 733s, even at easyJet the A320 is replacing A319s.
- Long haul is seeing a lot of growth, especially to the middle east. Emirates are using A380s and 77W, EY, SQ and CX are 77Ws, which are substantially bigger than A330/A340s.

[Curious Pax]

In 2014 170k movements carried just short of 22 million passengers - almost 129 per movement. In 1990 the average was around 86 per movement. So if that 1990 average had been maintained with today's passenger levels we would be looking at 50% more movements in a year - that would stretch the available apron space!

What is perhaps more surprising is that in summer, when there are much more aircraft movements (with less a/c just parked up) and more passengers, with the extra revenue they both produce for the airport, it is the increased demand for car parking that gets priority.

Perhaps not that surprising as the total stand occupancy time in July will be less than in January. Jet2 are perhaps the best example - out of a based fleet of say 15, on some winter days 10 may not fly at all, whereas in July that would be 1-2 max. So one stand that contains a single aircraft in January could contain 12 or more in July, assuming they only stay in for 1-2 hours, (and usually less when on a turnround). In winter, the based shorthaul fleet almost all night stops; in the summer a fair percentage will be away doing overnight trips, and if they don't return until after 6, a number of the nightstoppers will have departed, freeing up stands.

I realise that is oversimplifying things a bit, but I think the point stands (if you pardon the pun!).

[MANFOD]

in the summer a fair percentage will be away doing overnight trips, and if they don't return until after 6, a number of the nightstoppers will have departed, freeing up stands.

I take your general point about the increase in average pax per movement. However, I think I'm right in saying that Jet2, Easyjet and Ryanair do very little overnight flying although some flights get back after midnight. It's more TOM, TCX and MON that have the late evening departures.

Nevertheless, in summer essentially all the stands are used at some part of the day, even if stands are unoccupied for several hours at various times because as you say less a/c are just parked up. And you can't have stands converted to car parking for part of the day. A look at the apron between 06.00 and 08.00 in summer may well indicate there are very few, if any, available parking stands, with arriving aircraft sometimes having to wait for stands to be vacated. There just seems very little or no margin at all, especially if schedules go haywire during that early morning peak.

[Bagso]

It "might" be going haywire already, listening to ground this morning there were aircraft queing awaiting stands, three at one point.

What will it be like in March ? ah thats next week

Or Summer ?

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Is it me or are we getting new route news almost on a weekly basis ?

I have never known anything like it in in 30 years !

[MANFOD]

CAA Stats.

MAN's 7.3% increase in January has already been reported. Some airports, notably LTN, BHX, EMA and GLA, achieved growth of 11.4 to 13.3%. For some reason, STN believed to be a 28% increase, is not included in the CAA figures. LHR was up 1.3% and LGW 5.6%.

For MAN, CX carried 10,302 pax which I make an average load of 286 or 84% LF based on 36 flights. Very encouraging.

Other long haul to the east were:
% change / Average Load
SQ '+6% / 156
EY '+7% / 280
EK '+6% / 376
QR -10% / 240
SV (6,776 pax) / 188

The average loads are based on all flights having operated and subject to my having calculated the number of flights correctly! Didn't know the mix of a/c configurations for the ME3 and SV but maybe someone else can work out the LFs.

TK recorded a 14% increase.

The US figures were less encouraging but of course ORD and IAD did not operate for most of the month. JFK & EWR were down slightly but not sure of any weather cancellations this January or last. ATL & PHL stayed almost identical i.e. no increase or decrease.

FI were up 40% on the other hand. I wonder how many of those pax were flying onto the US.

[LAX_LHR]

JFK & EWR were down slightly but not sure of any weather cancellations this January or last

There were some cancellations from snow at the US end, as the inbound AA210 spent about 3 days on the ground at MAN as it kept getting cancelled.

[Suzeman]

Interesting MEN article here with the Cathay COO about the Manchester flights. All sounds pretty positive.

Exclusive Q+A with Cathay Pacific chief operating officer Rupert Hogg - Manchester Evening News

[Bagso]

Straying away from trains to freight ?

Interesting comparison here with the next warehouse re Airport City.

This is the planning application which went in Dec.

New 260,000 sq ft Manchester warehouse green-lighted | SHD Logistics News

Interestingly this is 260,000 sq ft BUT only 11 acres.

It seems odd by comparison to anybody who has seen the monster at the side of the Mway at Omega North which really is enormous.

Hermes, Omega North, Warrington | Chetwoods ArchitectsChetwoods Architects

Curiously this is 157,000 sq ft but only 18 acres !

The Man Airport option by sq ft would initially appear to be considerably larger BUT the footprint by acre much smalller which seems odd.

If its a transport hub do you not need the lorry parking etc as well ?