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Join Date: Sep 2007
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Fair points made by WW.
The other routes show variable results. The growth on the Amsterdam and Tenerife routes is very encouraging....
Alicante 6634
Amsterdam 18,998
Barcelona 5737
Berlin 6,593
Dublin 3332
Faro 2540
Geneva 5181
Malaga 4512
Tenerife 2464
Venice 3812
The other routes show variable results. The growth on the Amsterdam and Tenerife routes is very encouraging....
Alicante 6634
Amsterdam 18,998
Barcelona 5737
Berlin 6,593
Dublin 3332
Faro 2540
Geneva 5181
Malaga 4512
Tenerife 2464
Venice 3812
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: London
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I don't completely agree with WW, I think the stobart routes are not right, but on the other hand I see some very sound logic to them.
The ATR is a very efficient aircraft with very low operating costs, and with some support from either end and low airport charges then the costs of the route are probably quite favourable and not requiring a huge load factor to break even.
Munster, is probably underwritten by the automotive industry. If they have some fully flex sales from the auto / high value manufacturing companies then it makes sense to keep it. After all there is a reason this route survived the cull and MST and ANR didn't despite having similar loads.
GRQ is working I would say, loads in the winter especially the first winter of the service will be poor but they are showing a slightly positive trend and this is good.
The French routes have a logic. A LOT of second property owners in the region with places in France, and little direct connectivity. Double daily on RNS with the aircraft in RNS looked like an unexpected but logical decision, but now that they have a season and know more clearly the demographic, then maybe single daily will boost it a lot. Caen had added capacity part way through last summer so maybe that will work.
I think the single aircraft operating this mix is likely to do well, capture and hold the market they have whilst reducing the overhead.
It's easy to sit at home with none of the information available to you and decide they are idiots who don't know what they're doing, but they have access to information that we don't, they know things that we don't and so they are making decision.
I dare say they are constrained by the agreement with Flybe, and I think the MAG deal forcing flybe into STN probably upset everyone, but at the end of the day, why don't we applaud them for trying to make it work, and accept the possibility that maybe, just maybe, there is a logic to what they are doing, even it is not immediately obvious to us wannabe route planners at home
The ATR is a very efficient aircraft with very low operating costs, and with some support from either end and low airport charges then the costs of the route are probably quite favourable and not requiring a huge load factor to break even.
Munster, is probably underwritten by the automotive industry. If they have some fully flex sales from the auto / high value manufacturing companies then it makes sense to keep it. After all there is a reason this route survived the cull and MST and ANR didn't despite having similar loads.
GRQ is working I would say, loads in the winter especially the first winter of the service will be poor but they are showing a slightly positive trend and this is good.
The French routes have a logic. A LOT of second property owners in the region with places in France, and little direct connectivity. Double daily on RNS with the aircraft in RNS looked like an unexpected but logical decision, but now that they have a season and know more clearly the demographic, then maybe single daily will boost it a lot. Caen had added capacity part way through last summer so maybe that will work.
I think the single aircraft operating this mix is likely to do well, capture and hold the market they have whilst reducing the overhead.
It's easy to sit at home with none of the information available to you and decide they are idiots who don't know what they're doing, but they have access to information that we don't, they know things that we don't and so they are making decision.
I dare say they are constrained by the agreement with Flybe, and I think the MAG deal forcing flybe into STN probably upset everyone, but at the end of the day, why don't we applaud them for trying to make it work, and accept the possibility that maybe, just maybe, there is a logic to what they are doing, even it is not immediately obvious to us wannabe route planners at home
Join Date: Aug 2009
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It seems to me that some Scandinavian routes might be worth a try.
Flynonstop tried Kristiansand (Norway) to LCY, it might have a decent chance on an ATR rather than an E190 and the lower fees at SEN.
They could try the destinations that are too small for Norwegian but still in need of a service. Scandinavians love London so there is a market.
Flynonstop tried Kristiansand (Norway) to LCY, it might have a decent chance on an ATR rather than an E190 and the lower fees at SEN.
They could try the destinations that are too small for Norwegian but still in need of a service. Scandinavians love London so there is a market.
Join Date: Oct 2006
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In my opinion one of the main problems is the head of Stobart - he wants instant success on everything - transport, airline, horse racing, you name it. The list of directors, CEOs he has got rid of or left after only a few weeks only emphasises my point. As most of us who know or have been connected with the airline industry do not get instant success in the airline industry you have to go for the long haul so to speak unfortunately Mr T does not seem to see it that way.
you have to go for the long haul so to speak unfortunately Mr T does not seem to see it that way.
Stobart's seem to be taking some stick, but where was SEN going before they turned up?
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In my opinion one of the main problems is the head of Stobart - he wants instant success on everything
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Well, I don't know much about Mr Tinkler but I hope he doesn't lose interest in SEN completely. The development of Carlisle suggests that he sees SEN as at least a medium-term asset rather than a finished product to be sold on.
As SWBKCB said, where indeed would SEN be without Stobart....?
EZY seem to have settled into a small but viable operation now. Hopefully they will try to expand again at SEN once their new fleet of neos arrives and LGW is fully exploited. In the meantime it would be good to see one or two more continental-based airlines using SEN. Scandinavia might indeed be a successful market - there used to be streams of Norwegian and Swedish DC-6s, C-46s, Viscounts and Convairs bringing shoppers into SEN back in the 1960s.
As SWBKCB said, where indeed would SEN be without Stobart....?
EZY seem to have settled into a small but viable operation now. Hopefully they will try to expand again at SEN once their new fleet of neos arrives and LGW is fully exploited. In the meantime it would be good to see one or two more continental-based airlines using SEN. Scandinavia might indeed be a successful market - there used to be streams of Norwegian and Swedish DC-6s, C-46s, Viscounts and Convairs bringing shoppers into SEN back in the 1960s.
Join Date: Jul 2002
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As SWBKCB said, where indeed would SEN be without Stobart....
When the new Southend opened and easyjet arrived I think some people here were expecting millions of passengers to flock though the doors of the terminal as in their eyes new routes were going to be opened quickly. Now reality has set in they don't like it.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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I think southend is going exceptionally well, and I fully expected a massive boom, then some consolidation and maybe a slight dip which is what we have now, and then I am sure it'll grow much more organically over the next few years and slowly rise to c.2mppa
I love / get frustrated by people saying how the end is coming all because the airlines are having a year of consolidation …
To go from nothing to 1 million pax in 2 years is an amazing achievement
I love / get frustrated by people saying how the end is coming all because the airlines are having a year of consolidation …
To go from nothing to 1 million pax in 2 years is an amazing achievement
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Agree ! You only have to look back at the history of LCY & SOU ! There is also a limit to pax finances.
I was a doubter but have been impressed how the airport has achieved so much.
I was a doubter but have been impressed how the airport has achieved so much.
Join Date: Jun 2011
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In terms of new routes, the airport are currently pushing specifically for new links to Copenhagen, Zurich, Frankfurt, Madrid and Glasgow. They obviously feel that there is demand for them to work, but in reality MAD, GLA, FRA and ZRH are all currently served from LCY, and CPH from STN so competition would be fierce to say the least. The airport has a reached a period of consolidation after what was significant growth which was always likely to happen, but must agree that the most likely expansion would probably come from EZY in the coming years when new equipment arrives but we'll just have to wait and see...
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I believe Cumbrianboy's guess is spot on.
I looked at the CAA pax figures for November and December, and didn't think things are too bad with what destinations remain, considering EasyJet dumped Krakow, Belfast, Edinburgh and Jersey all year round service. Stobarts routes seemed to be growing except for Maastricht, and Antwerp is too competetive. Perhaps one ATR operating profitable routes only makes sense.
Flybe seem to be a headless chicken operation at the moment. I hope they will settle down in their operations. Nobody has explained why Newquay was transferred to STN. Fingers crossed for 2016 and hope EZY will find new extra destinations.
I looked at the CAA pax figures for November and December, and didn't think things are too bad with what destinations remain, considering EasyJet dumped Krakow, Belfast, Edinburgh and Jersey all year round service. Stobarts routes seemed to be growing except for Maastricht, and Antwerp is too competetive. Perhaps one ATR operating profitable routes only makes sense.
Flybe seem to be a headless chicken operation at the moment. I hope they will settle down in their operations. Nobody has explained why Newquay was transferred to STN. Fingers crossed for 2016 and hope EZY will find new extra destinations.
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Nobody has explained why Newquay was transferred to STN.
Their Stansted routes to Newquay, IOM, Newcastle and Dundee might have been Southend routes if BAA still owned Stansted.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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I don't know, but knowing how airports operate I would image MAG said if you want a deal at MAG then give us something at STN and BOH - otherwise the logic of choosing BOH and STN seem suspect, but if they payback comes at MAN ...