SOUTHEND 5
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Services from Southend were started too late in the year to build up a war chest to get them through the winter. Has Stobart Air lost its nerve or are its pockets just not deep enough? Are there any Stobart Air Southend routes that actually make money? It was always going to be a tough start but I thought it would be at least 2 years before changes were made.
Please calm down everyone.
MST and ANR have been dropped presumably because there was no prospect of either becoming profitable in the foreseeable future. The routes to CFR, GRQ, FMO and RNS have all shown potential and are certainly worth another summer season to prove themselves. SEN-RNS has never been on sale for S15; it was a glitch on the website that meant the summer months were shown but with no flights loaded. Wait a few days and I expect we shall see the S15 timetables appear for the four remaining routes, as well as whether or not Stobart Air will add to the existing DUB-SEN Flybe 'mainline' S15 timetable.
For two routes out of six launched simultaneously to have failed to meet expectations is nothing new in this industry. Who knows how many of the recently launched LCY routes by Flybe itself may also fall by the wayside?
MST and ANR have been dropped presumably because there was no prospect of either becoming profitable in the foreseeable future. The routes to CFR, GRQ, FMO and RNS have all shown potential and are certainly worth another summer season to prove themselves. SEN-RNS has never been on sale for S15; it was a glitch on the website that meant the summer months were shown but with no flights loaded. Wait a few days and I expect we shall see the S15 timetables appear for the four remaining routes, as well as whether or not Stobart Air will add to the existing DUB-SEN Flybe 'mainline' S15 timetable.
For two routes out of six launched simultaneously to have failed to meet expectations is nothing new in this industry. Who knows how many of the recently launched LCY routes by Flybe itself may also fall by the wayside?
Join Date: Dec 2014
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Expressflight
Calm down everyone, thank you...
how's about the crews and their lives in SEN who are now being told to relocate or leave?
one a/c will be left in SEN
with enough crew for one, presumably on seniority judging by the phonecalls today from management
a bit more compassion wouldn't go amiss.
how's about the crews and their lives in SEN who are now being told to relocate or leave?
one a/c will be left in SEN
with enough crew for one, presumably on seniority judging by the phonecalls today from management
a bit more compassion wouldn't go amiss.
Join Date: Mar 2003
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We should not forget that MST was a makeshift route launch when CGN became unfeasible because of Ryanair launchning STN-CGN. If MST was expected to have great potential, it would have been among the first six routes announced.
As for ANR, it was the most non-sensical route given the 20 year long tradition of VLM/Cityjet on ANR-LCY, offering the better frequency and better London gateway.
The more interesting question for me is if there are other potential destinations for a 70seater turboprop from SEN to which the freed up capacity could be deployed? It would probably need to be an airport with no current London link, particularly no STN or LCY service. The only airports I can think of are EBJ, SCN, PAD/KSF, LGG
As for ANR, it was the most non-sensical route given the 20 year long tradition of VLM/Cityjet on ANR-LCY, offering the better frequency and better London gateway.
The more interesting question for me is if there are other potential destinations for a 70seater turboprop from SEN to which the freed up capacity could be deployed? It would probably need to be an airport with no current London link, particularly no STN or LCY service. The only airports I can think of are EBJ, SCN, PAD/KSF, LGG
EBJ = Esbjerg, Denmark
SCN =Saarbrucken, Germany
PAD = Paderborn, Germany
KSF = Kassel, Germany
LGG = Liege, Belgium
All of the above are difficult to reach from London, except maybe Eurostar/train to Liege via Brussels. None are particularly big cities - is there really enough demand to warrant flights to London ?
SCN =Saarbrucken, Germany
PAD = Paderborn, Germany
KSF = Kassel, Germany
LGG = Liege, Belgium
All of the above are difficult to reach from London, except maybe Eurostar/train to Liege via Brussels. None are particularly big cities - is there really enough demand to warrant flights to London ?
London to Lille would be tough against the Eurostar - the market would be implicity reduced to people living very close to Southend as people in London or Lille would likely go by train.
Albert Picardie is in a rural area (ie low population density). Taking people living in northern France to Nice in summer is usually a good bet. Albert Picardie couldn't sustain a Nice route when IGAvion tried. Tough to sell a London route when Lille station is not that far away
Beauvais is a poor man's version of Paris. Again the Eurostar would severely limit the market to residents of Southend.
Ostend might have potential.
Albert Picardie is in a rural area (ie low population density). Taking people living in northern France to Nice in summer is usually a good bet. Albert Picardie couldn't sustain a Nice route when IGAvion tried. Tough to sell a London route when Lille station is not that far away
Beauvais is a poor man's version of Paris. Again the Eurostar would severely limit the market to residents of Southend.
Ostend might have potential.
Join Date: Nov 2014
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Eurostar is indeed a very good, fast en cheap option for Nortwestern France. If Stobart is willing to try another destination, I think it will be Odense (ODE), Ostend (OST), Liege (LGG) or maybe a German city. There are not many other options.
Join Date: Aug 2014
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I think CGN at 1x daily was flawed though, I'd have said that MST was a better choice and I'm really surprised it failed so miserably.
Of the routes mentioned, Paderborn would be a good choice now it has lost it's London links which have I believe operated for many years. However, with FR eyeing massive German expansion it is a risk.
Also in Germany, Saarbrucken has some previous form from SEN and I believe didn't do too badly.
I wouldn't be surprised to see them do SEN-NQY, and maybe have another crack at Waterford
Of the routes mentioned, Paderborn would be a good choice now it has lost it's London links which have I believe operated for many years. However, with FR eyeing massive German expansion it is a risk.
Also in Germany, Saarbrucken has some previous form from SEN and I believe didn't do too badly.
I wouldn't be surprised to see them do SEN-NQY, and maybe have another crack at Waterford
Join Date: Mar 2003
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PAD used to have links to STN, LCY and MAN in the past by AB and WX. Because it is the heartland of the British Rhine Army, there are still reasonable links between the region and the UK.
KSF is a new airport desperate for airlines. It is halfway between DTM, HAJ and FRA. Relatively little demand in the immediate city, but a fairly large catchment area.
SCN was in the running for a SEN by OLT Express. SCN has been linked to a LON service a couple of times in the past, so apparently someone sees a market. The catchment area also goes into parts of Lorraine.
I have some doubts about LGG because it would have been the obvious alternative to MST but lost against it. So if MST does not work, can LGG?
OST - maybe. But Ryanair was unable to make it work.
EBJ: I mentioned this one because it was a Maersk Air route from SEN in the late 1970s/early 1980s (with Dash 7, IIRC). I don't think Odense would be a more obvious - no schedules at ODE for quite some time because of the improved ground transport links to Copenhagen. EBJ had FR in the past, but might be bit tricky because of Sun Air down the road on BLL-LCY.
IMHO, airports in northern France will have little chance against the Eurostar.
In general, problem with most of the airports mentioned is that they would be considerably further away from SEN than those six currently served - at the moment FMO is the furthest away with 302mi. ODE, for example, would be almost 500mi, AGH 600mi. Too far away for a turboprop that needs to do four daily rotations.
KSF is a new airport desperate for airlines. It is halfway between DTM, HAJ and FRA. Relatively little demand in the immediate city, but a fairly large catchment area.
SCN was in the running for a SEN by OLT Express. SCN has been linked to a LON service a couple of times in the past, so apparently someone sees a market. The catchment area also goes into parts of Lorraine.
I have some doubts about LGG because it would have been the obvious alternative to MST but lost against it. So if MST does not work, can LGG?
OST - maybe. But Ryanair was unable to make it work.
EBJ: I mentioned this one because it was a Maersk Air route from SEN in the late 1970s/early 1980s (with Dash 7, IIRC). I don't think Odense would be a more obvious - no schedules at ODE for quite some time because of the improved ground transport links to Copenhagen. EBJ had FR in the past, but might be bit tricky because of Sun Air down the road on BLL-LCY.
IMHO, airports in northern France will have little chance against the Eurostar.
In general, problem with most of the airports mentioned is that they would be considerably further away from SEN than those six currently served - at the moment FMO is the furthest away with 302mi. ODE, for example, would be almost 500mi, AGH 600mi. Too far away for a turboprop that needs to do four daily rotations.
Join Date: Mar 2003
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I guess because they decided not to do domestics in the first place? Probably too difficult to compete from SEN given the competition from LCY, LGW, LTN and STN. Only airports with no routes to LON could be succesful - cannot think of any except Carlisle and maybe Waterford.
Join Date: Nov 2014
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Huh!? I thought Southend-Carlisle will be operated twice weekly beginning next summer, operated by Stobart. According to this article: Carlisle becomes gateway to US in tie-up between Stobart Group and Aer Lingus | World news | The Guardian
Or is this news already behind the times?
Or is this news already behind the times?
I know there's been a lot of talk about a Southend-Carlisle route, but has anything actually gone on sale, or has a route launch date been announced ? Is there anything which formally obliges Stobart to run a Southend-Carlisle route, apart from a few red faces and the odd bad article in the local newspapers in Carlisle ?
I'm not saying it won't happen, but if Stobart are pulling off routes to Antwerp and Maastricht, it seems likely that someone high up at Stobart might be reconsidering whether Southend-Carlisle should actually go ahead.
I'm not saying it won't happen, but if Stobart are pulling off routes to Antwerp and Maastricht, it seems likely that someone high up at Stobart might be reconsidering whether Southend-Carlisle should actually go ahead.
Join Date: Sep 2012
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I don't mean to spoil the line of conversation but is there much point in just picking out places that Stobart "could" fly to?? I could easily do the same for pretty much any airline from any airport, it doesn't really mean or tell you anything. I think it's just a case of wait and see.
On a slightly different note though, and I can think of probably 1 or 2 people I'm going to get a rollicking from for saying this... but is it not becoming slightly apparent now that SEN is little more than a local departure point for the outbound leisure market?
I'm not just referring to the miserable performance of some of BE's Stobart Air routes and the current absence of their S15 schedule, but also the nature of EZY's network. BFS, EDI, KRK and NQY have been dropped plus GVA is now only a winter ski route. Their route map looks increasingly focussed on the summer sun/beach destinations of Spain and Portugal.
I would like to be proven wrong, but there isn't much to suggest otherwise.
On a slightly different note though, and I can think of probably 1 or 2 people I'm going to get a rollicking from for saying this... but is it not becoming slightly apparent now that SEN is little more than a local departure point for the outbound leisure market?
I'm not just referring to the miserable performance of some of BE's Stobart Air routes and the current absence of their S15 schedule, but also the nature of EZY's network. BFS, EDI, KRK and NQY have been dropped plus GVA is now only a winter ski route. Their route map looks increasingly focussed on the summer sun/beach destinations of Spain and Portugal.
I would like to be proven wrong, but there isn't much to suggest otherwise.