SOUTHEND 5
Join Date: Aug 2014
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I've just noticed that the existing ATR routes are a casualty of the new routes. Caen and Groningen appear to have been dropped, with Rennes down to once daily between the morning and afternoon MAN flights. I fear this will prove to be a mistake.
It looks as if what I suspected to be the case for SEN ATR ops for the winter is being confirmed. This being that the currently based ATR72 will operate MAN at the expense of CFR and GRQ while RNS becomes just a daily flight. Whether CFR and GRQ come back for next summer remains to be seen.
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Essex
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I also suspected the dropping of the ATR routes, but unlike EF casually dismissed the thought. I'm really surprised given that they have become quite established and relatively successful. If MAN does well, I don't suppose Stobart will lose any sleep over their decision, it's a shame nevertheless.
Join Date: Sep 2016
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DC3 Dave
Having spent three years working with CFR management to get the SEN-CFR route to become a reality I still keep in touch with them. The trouble is that Stobart are concentrating on achieving their 2.5 mppa target for SEN and see a MAN route as producing far greater numbers than GRQ or CFR ever will.
It's not just sour grapes but I have my doubts about SEN-MAN. In order for it to work they will have to attract large numbers who want to connect with Flybe routes onward from MAN. It's one thing to be able to do this from, say, EXT but other LON airports offer direct flights to most of those destinations already so how large is that market going to prove for SEN?
Interesting times lie ahead certainly.
Having spent three years working with CFR management to get the SEN-CFR route to become a reality I still keep in touch with them. The trouble is that Stobart are concentrating on achieving their 2.5 mppa target for SEN and see a MAN route as producing far greater numbers than GRQ or CFR ever will.
It's not just sour grapes but I have my doubts about SEN-MAN. In order for it to work they will have to attract large numbers who want to connect with Flybe routes onward from MAN. It's one thing to be able to do this from, say, EXT but other LON airports offer direct flights to most of those destinations already so how large is that market going to prove for SEN?
Interesting times lie ahead certainly.
Join Date: Apr 2016
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Expressflight
I know you were involved with Caen Normandy. I hope it returns. I just thought that as Stobart are a serious operator when it comes to ATR's it should have been possible to base 2 at SEN. Still, I wouldn't want to be too critical, at least the airport has moved on from the stagnation of 2016.
I know you were involved with Caen Normandy. I hope it returns. I just thought that as Stobart are a serious operator when it comes to ATR's it should have been possible to base 2 at SEN. Still, I wouldn't want to be too critical, at least the airport has moved on from the stagnation of 2016.
Join Date: Sep 2016
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Stobart are concentrating on achieving their 2.5 mppa target for SEN and see a MAN route as producing far greater numbers than GRQ or CFR ever will.
If there is water to cross the air fare is higher, to/from Manchester, that's Manchester rather than the airport, one needs to compete with the trains, National Express and driving and by the time London folk may have made it to SEN in time for their 45 minute check-in, or whatever, they could have already been halfway to Manchester by surface transport.
Stick with crossing water Stobart
HW
I agree with you and was just pointing out the way that Stobart are looking at it.
While I want SEN to succeed I shan't be sorry if MAN doesn't work for them to be honest because CFR and GRQ didn't deserve to lose their LON routes in this way.
I agree with you and was just pointing out the way that Stobart are looking at it.
While I want SEN to succeed I shan't be sorry if MAN doesn't work for them to be honest because CFR and GRQ didn't deserve to lose their LON routes in this way.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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I have to say the numbers on CFR where always very low and so I am not surprised it has gone.
I do think there is potential for MAN, I know a lot of drivers of demand in the North West for travel between the NW and the essex area, and the journey is like torture by road or rail and totally unreliable. As I have said before, everyone immediately jumps on the "serving London" bandwagon, but there is a lot more to the route than business folk going for a meeting in London (although if you did want to meet in the east of London or even the city, then it may work out quicker than the train)
Point to bear in mind - Not everyone lives in, or wants to visit the centre of Manchester or London - lots of people in the suburbs and surrounding areas of both airports will find a flight much more convenient that travelling all the way into a city centre just to travel out of it again ...
As for the gatwick comment, I think Gatwick - Manchester did very well on numbers, that wasn't the the issue, the issue was BA's lack of capacity and the ever increasing value of slots at Gatwick that caused the route to end, added with the very high operating costs of Gatwick ... it's why FlyBe pulled out and ditched highly profitable routes such as LGW-BHD, IOM etc
Southend is a totally different ball game ...
I do think there is potential for MAN, I know a lot of drivers of demand in the North West for travel between the NW and the essex area, and the journey is like torture by road or rail and totally unreliable. As I have said before, everyone immediately jumps on the "serving London" bandwagon, but there is a lot more to the route than business folk going for a meeting in London (although if you did want to meet in the east of London or even the city, then it may work out quicker than the train)
Point to bear in mind - Not everyone lives in, or wants to visit the centre of Manchester or London - lots of people in the suburbs and surrounding areas of both airports will find a flight much more convenient that travelling all the way into a city centre just to travel out of it again ...
As for the gatwick comment, I think Gatwick - Manchester did very well on numbers, that wasn't the the issue, the issue was BA's lack of capacity and the ever increasing value of slots at Gatwick that caused the route to end, added with the very high operating costs of Gatwick ... it's why FlyBe pulled out and ditched highly profitable routes such as LGW-BHD, IOM etc
Southend is a totally different ball game ...
I think we all knew it was never going to happen but routes from Southend to both Manchester and Glasgow now make the likelihood of a Southend-Carlisle route even more remote.
Join Date: Aug 2008
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ere wig go again..The summer season not into it`s stride yet & already the churn..churn (dropping) of routes from good ole SEN...EF admitting the Stobart philosophy that is so so apparent anyhows..Is this now an example of Stobart flailing around chucking an aeroplane & institutions £££ at any old route next out of the hat....I forecast the old "BAF style" routes from SEN so beloved of it`s supporters would not work...(didn`t really then with nothing changing in the intervening decades)...so what now?..errrr domestics!!..I know the fans do not like the word but yields do & should play one of the largest considerations within a normal commercial reality but all can see there appears to be none within the combined SEN operation...it is gonna be found out...the domestics will fail...look at any amount of history.. SEN should consider itself no different....EF has put it far more diplomatically when he states "interesting times ahead certainly".....
That's all...Good Luck.SS
That's all...Good Luck.SS
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Why is dropping season summer routes for the summer a sign of flailing around?
Why is dropping routes that you have tried for many years and they don't work a sign of flailing around or bad management?
To me, it looks like a good winter programme with a sensible use of the aircraft ...
Yes it's a shame GRQ has gone, CFR was always living on borrowed time
I've said it before and will again, the negativity and unrealistic views on this forum are tiresome
Why is dropping routes that you have tried for many years and they don't work a sign of flailing around or bad management?
To me, it looks like a good winter programme with a sensible use of the aircraft ...
Yes it's a shame GRQ has gone, CFR was always living on borrowed time
I've said it before and will again, the negativity and unrealistic views on this forum are tiresome
Join Date: Jan 2014
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ss
ere wig go again..The summer season not into it`s stride yet & already the churn..churn (dropping) of routes from good ole SEN...EF admitting the Stobart philosophy that is so so apparent anyhows..Is this now an example of Stobart flailing around chucking an aeroplane & institutions £££ at any old route next out of the hat....I forecast the old "BAF style" routes from SEN so beloved of it`s supporters would not work...(didn`t really then with nothing changing in the intervening decades)...so what now?..errrr domestics!!..I know the fans do not like the word but yields do & should play one of the largest considerations within a normal commercial reality but all can see there appears to be none within the combined SEN operation...it is gonna be found out...the domestics will fail...look at any amount of history.. SEN should consider itself no different....EF has put it far more diplomatically when he states "interesting times ahead certainly".....
That's all...Good Luck.SS
That's all...Good Luck.SS
cumbrianboy
I cannot agree with you regarding CFR.
It showed year on year growth of 46% in 2015 and a further 21% in 2016. That doesn't sound like a route "living on borrowed time" but more like one with further potential.
I cannot agree with you regarding CFR.
It showed year on year growth of 46% in 2015 and a further 21% in 2016. That doesn't sound like a route "living on borrowed time" but more like one with further potential.