DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT - 6
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If no-one will come when the oil price is in the dumps and airlines are making (some) profit how does anyone expect the place to expand in the future???
It's one of a number of UK airports that have no discernible future - Manston, Doncaster, Prestwick, Dundee -without a vast subsidy
It's one of a number of UK airports that have no discernible future - Manston, Doncaster, Prestwick, Dundee -without a vast subsidy
Yes I know,a complete irrational comparison..however 10k passengers through the Port of Tyne in last 48 hours..nearly a months DTV figures.
Showing the markets are out there for the whole region,if the will is there??
Showing the markets are out there for the whole region,if the will is there??
Join Date: Dec 2014
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My eyes are engaged
The terminal should not be sold, just because there's no demand now doesn't mean there won't be in ten+ years time. Still wreckless comments.
The question remains though..we know Peel have deep pockets,but how much will do they actually have to keep the airport"ticking over" while awaiting an upsurge in business?
You just get the nagging feeling,that if a better offer/further downturn or Eastern/KLM change of aviation direction comes along ,then the future remains precarious to say the least?
You just get the nagging feeling,that if a better offer/further downturn or Eastern/KLM change of aviation direction comes along ,then the future remains precarious to say the least?
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So in your delusional mind, in 10 years, and £25 million in the red later, there's some kind of magic demand from the incredibly wealthy and well travelled Darlington/Teesside populace to grab their suitcases every three months? Now, in your mind, the airport is teeming with 737 and a320 type aircraft, and finally the airport can BREAK EVEN! So how exactly does it make up for the losses of the last two decades?
If their was demand, it would be used. The passengers left before the Airlines.
Best advice Cautious Optimist, Grow up, wake up and stop dreaming. Allow the airfield to downsize and sell as much of its assets as possible. At least then we may stand a chance of it continuing as a well maintained private flightstrip.
Anyway, its pretty obvious that the land is only being kept as a future housing development. Only an idiot would think otherwise.
jamesgrainge, no point in going into the old loops!
Sell assets no way they are trying to buy more, they might lease assets to aviation related industry which is stipulated on some of the planning conditions.
Things are stagnating a little at the moment but don't know why.
Sell assets no way they are trying to buy more, they might lease assets to aviation related industry which is stipulated on some of the planning conditions.
Things are stagnating a little at the moment but don't know why.
The airport is viable for so long as Peel can see a way to make a buck (and they seem to have an eye for it).
The most likely route would seem to be through developing the land. So what does this Teesside brown field site have that other Teesside brown fields sites don't have? "Global connectivity" -
And what do local councils and the other hangers on like - oh yes, "Global connectivity"! So while there's an active runway (and a link to a global hub - bet the KLM contract negotiations are fun...), what better to smooth the way with the LA's and other public/quasi-public bodies.
Sound like a (Master)plan?
The most likely route would seem to be through developing the land. So what does this Teesside brown field site have that other Teesside brown fields sites don't have? "Global connectivity" -
And what do local councils and the other hangers on like - oh yes, "Global connectivity"! So while there's an active runway (and a link to a global hub - bet the KLM contract negotiations are fun...), what better to smooth the way with the LA's and other public/quasi-public bodies.
Sound like a (Master)plan?
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Maybe it all comes down to the decision back in the 60's to build the terminal away from the station. Both the airport and the railway would have served each other with passengers if there had been a Southend type connection?
The question has to be asked why the gradual decline over many decades if it isn't down to a lack of investment and poor judgments?
The airport reminds me of my local pub, 20 odd years ago it was always busy. It changed hands a couple of times and now it has lost its way. It is now looking rough at the edges and needs an upgrade but no money has been spent on it for years. The opening times reduced and it is often now closed when it is meant to be open. The car park is usually empty and now hardly anyone goes there. I bit like this airport I guess.
The question has to be asked why the gradual decline over many decades if it isn't down to a lack of investment and poor judgments?
The airport reminds me of my local pub, 20 odd years ago it was always busy. It changed hands a couple of times and now it has lost its way. It is now looking rough at the edges and needs an upgrade but no money has been spent on it for years. The opening times reduced and it is often now closed when it is meant to be open. The car park is usually empty and now hardly anyone goes there. I bit like this airport I guess.
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You're not a sensible bloke are you?
So in your delusional mind, in 10 years, and £25 million in the red later, there's some kind of magic demand from the incredibly wealthy and well travelled Darlington/Teesside populace to grab their suitcases every three months? Now, in your mind, the airport is teeming with 737 and a320 type aircraft, and finally the airport can BREAK EVEN! So how exactly does it make up for the losses of the last two decades?
If their was demand, it would be used. The passengers left before the Airlines.
Best advice Cautious Optimist, Grow up, wake up and stop dreaming. Allow the airfield to downsize and sell as much of its assets as possible. At least then we may stand a chance of it continuing as a well maintained private flightstrip.
Anyway, its pretty obvious that the land is only being kept as a future housing development. Only an idiot would think otherwise.
So in your delusional mind, in 10 years, and £25 million in the red later, there's some kind of magic demand from the incredibly wealthy and well travelled Darlington/Teesside populace to grab their suitcases every three months? Now, in your mind, the airport is teeming with 737 and a320 type aircraft, and finally the airport can BREAK EVEN! So how exactly does it make up for the losses of the last two decades?
If their was demand, it would be used. The passengers left before the Airlines.
Best advice Cautious Optimist, Grow up, wake up and stop dreaming. Allow the airfield to downsize and sell as much of its assets as possible. At least then we may stand a chance of it continuing as a well maintained private flightstrip.
Anyway, its pretty obvious that the land is only being kept as a future housing development. Only an idiot would think otherwise.
right back at ya pal, takes one to know one and all that...!
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If I may be as bold as to ask; Cautious Optimist, would you be so selfless as to permit yourself to lose £2.5m a year on this? It would take a rampant optimist really to see past the problems and label those who can't as selfish.
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jamesgrainge, no point in going into the old loops!
Sell assets no way they are trying to buy more, they might lease assets to aviation related industry which is stipulated on some of the planning conditions.
Things are stagnating a little at the moment but don't know why.
Sell assets no way they are trying to buy more, they might lease assets to aviation related industry which is stipulated on some of the planning conditions.
Things are stagnating a little at the moment but don't know why.
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If I may be as bold as to ask; Cautious Optimist, would you be so selfless as to permit yourself to lose £2.5m a year on this? It would take a rampant optimist really to see past the problems and label those who can't as selfish.
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CO
Your response is unfortunately irrational from a business perspective. If you were making a profit in other area's whilst also having the burden of covering substantial annual losses £2.5M or whatever, then the area of loss would be addressed as deemed appropriate.
It is likely that any action other than closing/disposing of such areas would be an option.
What is missed in all of the continuing diatribe on this matter is the delusion that the airport (other than the land!), has any commercial value to an investor.
Basically the infra structure is poor, the buildings poor, to the extent that the amount of investment to bring it up to the standards of it's neighbours could not be sustained, EVEN if there was an upturn in demand.
Putting it another way then there would be a requirement of between 5 & 10 years at least, of progressive expansion to necessarily be funded, with very little guarantee of any return on investment at all.
It's always been the land and the benefits of non aviation development that have kept the airport in operation.
At such time as the opportunity to separate the two activities arises, then the decision to close or dispose of the loss making aviation activities will become a no brainer !
Your response is unfortunately irrational from a business perspective. If you were making a profit in other area's whilst also having the burden of covering substantial annual losses £2.5M or whatever, then the area of loss would be addressed as deemed appropriate.
It is likely that any action other than closing/disposing of such areas would be an option.
What is missed in all of the continuing diatribe on this matter is the delusion that the airport (other than the land!), has any commercial value to an investor.
Basically the infra structure is poor, the buildings poor, to the extent that the amount of investment to bring it up to the standards of it's neighbours could not be sustained, EVEN if there was an upturn in demand.
Putting it another way then there would be a requirement of between 5 & 10 years at least, of progressive expansion to necessarily be funded, with very little guarantee of any return on investment at all.
It's always been the land and the benefits of non aviation development that have kept the airport in operation.
At such time as the opportunity to separate the two activities arises, then the decision to close or dispose of the loss making aviation activities will become a no brainer !
skyman771, they would need to get out of the planning stipulation that any development on the airfield must be aviation related. It would take so long that a potential tenant would be put off.
Ooh. It's getting serious...good job us bystanders have really no idea what the future holds?
Lots of perochial input as to be expected.
I am not a Peel decision maker....however...as a normal UK taxpayer and family accountant,I would have pulled the plug a couple of years ago...the only reason DTV is still open is due to minor political and local area politics .
The airport as a going concern is dead in the water..yes half a dozen companies are making some money...but how much is that costing them in payments to Peel? Not a lot of profit I would guess?
Whatever,the thread continues to throw up some great input,advice and dreams..great living in a free society!!
Keep it up guys!
Lots of perochial input as to be expected.
I am not a Peel decision maker....however...as a normal UK taxpayer and family accountant,I would have pulled the plug a couple of years ago...the only reason DTV is still open is due to minor political and local area politics .
The airport as a going concern is dead in the water..yes half a dozen companies are making some money...but how much is that costing them in payments to Peel? Not a lot of profit I would guess?
Whatever,the thread continues to throw up some great input,advice and dreams..great living in a free society!!
Keep it up guys!
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N707 - they will get out of th eplanning stipulation eventually - the "aviation" is disapearing of it's own accord
A few months of zero commercial activity and they'll have a cast iron case for a change in the planning - if not with the local authority with any Planning Inspector
They're playing the game longer than most of us would as they want to ensure they keep control
A few months of zero commercial activity and they'll have a cast iron case for a change in the planning - if not with the local authority with any Planning Inspector
They're playing the game longer than most of us would as they want to ensure they keep control
HH - that's the way I look at as well.
Build some big sheds, try to fill them with "aviation related" activity. If that doesn't work, we have to have the planning restrictions lifted or the airport isn't viable.
Bye-bye global connectivity. What's a poor planning authority to do?
Build some big sheds, try to fill them with "aviation related" activity. If that doesn't work, we have to have the planning restrictions lifted or the airport isn't viable.
Bye-bye global connectivity. What's a poor planning authority to do?
t!
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MME has been hamstrung for many years.
Through councils arguing among themselves, poor managment/questionable management, the awful decision by the councils to lease/sell to Peel, airlines deliberately manipulating routes to put pax off (LHR), unfortunate circumstances (bmibaby & flyglobespan), Peels miss management (pricing GA out then targeting GA as a way of saving the place, fire cover, treatment of staff), the on going saga of which Peel entity owns the airport, who owns the land, broken promises the list is endless.
The whole place is a joke the way it has been run down. Some may argue it was due to global down turn, but that has past and nothing is happening.
Peel say that they will invest once they recoup money from the houses but this will only be a small amount and will be a lot less than the £25m they promised originally.
Unfortunately we have to accept Peel are in this for the long game 25-30 years. They ll get their way eventually and it ll be a housing estate with some warehouses.
I'm sorry CO I commend your optimism but you are blind to the truth. I feel that as part of DTVfriends or what ever they are called Peel have managed to brain wash you into believing their propaganda.
I fear one day your group will realise what is happening and it ll be too late!
Through councils arguing among themselves, poor managment/questionable management, the awful decision by the councils to lease/sell to Peel, airlines deliberately manipulating routes to put pax off (LHR), unfortunate circumstances (bmibaby & flyglobespan), Peels miss management (pricing GA out then targeting GA as a way of saving the place, fire cover, treatment of staff), the on going saga of which Peel entity owns the airport, who owns the land, broken promises the list is endless.
The whole place is a joke the way it has been run down. Some may argue it was due to global down turn, but that has past and nothing is happening.
Peel say that they will invest once they recoup money from the houses but this will only be a small amount and will be a lot less than the £25m they promised originally.
Unfortunately we have to accept Peel are in this for the long game 25-30 years. They ll get their way eventually and it ll be a housing estate with some warehouses.
I'm sorry CO I commend your optimism but you are blind to the truth. I feel that as part of DTVfriends or what ever they are called Peel have managed to brain wash you into believing their propaganda.
I fear one day your group will realise what is happening and it ll be too late!