Flybe - 7
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Being - 600s they are hardly likely to be old. About one third of ATR's production these days goes to Lessors rather than airlines. I'd love to know the lease rates. About 10 years ago I was paying around USD 120,000 per month for an ATR72 - 200.
Can anyone enlighten me as to why FlyBe are going to the expense of adding a new type to their fleet, especially at a time when they are taking delivery of a fairly large number of ex-US Dash8s?
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Google is your friend
LGS, the ATR are to meet a new white label flying agreement in Scandinavia:
"UK regional carrier Flybe has agreed to lease four ATR 72-600s from Singapore-based Avation.
The new turboprops, which will be leased for six years, are scheduled to be delivered over 2015 and early 2016.
While the aircraft will be UK-registered, they will be operated for Scandinavia’s SAS Group.
Flybe disclosed last year that it was planning to start white-label flying for SAS out of Stockholm Arlanda, using a batch of ATRs."
"UK regional carrier Flybe has agreed to lease four ATR 72-600s from Singapore-based Avation.
The new turboprops, which will be leased for six years, are scheduled to be delivered over 2015 and early 2016.
While the aircraft will be UK-registered, they will be operated for Scandinavia’s SAS Group.
Flybe disclosed last year that it was planning to start white-label flying for SAS out of Stockholm Arlanda, using a batch of ATRs."
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Dash 8's
Legs is not spouting rubbish ... SAS had a fair few Dash 8's a few years ago. They had a number of accidents with them and the punters lost confidence in them so SAS got rid of them. SAS probably insisted on something other than the Dash 8.
I see Southend-Dublin is selling at full fare only (£221 one-way) for all dates after the start of the summer season in just less than a month's time. Given that this service has been an orphan in the Flybe schedule for almost three months now - with the aircraft ex Southampton currently flying it no longer available from the summer - when are they finally going to come clean and admit that the route will be cancelled? It's been obvious for some time that it is not going to fly beyond the end of March and the pricing strategy makes that clear. Keeping it on sale like this is just plain misleading, well worthy of some attention from the Essex trading standards folks.
Edit to add - the schedule issue on SEN-DUB was flagged up before Christmas, so it's been on sale for two and a half months on this basis.
Edit to add - the schedule issue on SEN-DUB was flagged up before Christmas, so it's been on sale for two and a half months on this basis.
Last edited by Flightrider; 1st Mar 2015 at 19:13. Reason: More info
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Flightrider
Some of the BHX schedule was the same but to be fair they have now amended it but BHX - HAJ was on sale for months at a 17.00 departure on a 175 when there just wasn't an aircraft around to do it at that time but there was an unused Dash from 18.10 and low and behold it is now at 18.10 on the Dash. I suppose with such a route most bookings are fairly late and it hasn't caused too much disruption but it was only amended the other week.
However it still can't beat this one: -
IOM-MAN Monday - Friday, BE814 departs 11.15 then BE812 departs 11.45. So basically 40% of the IOM-MAN departures leave within 30 minutes of each other and yes I realise this is the only way to work the aircraft through non-bases but coupled with some other gems such as the timings on Newcastle - Stansted certainly some of the most creative scheduling I have seen from flybe.
Could someone also clarify the original Bournemouth press release which mentions two based Dash 8's based. Looking at the Bournemouth flights I can see one based aircraft with some flight on a Glasgow based aircraft working through the day but only one over-nights at BOH. Surely the inbound Glasgow flights will be crewed by the Glasgow base or maybe not?
Another point this time from the last financials, it mentioned five 195's flying this summer and I can only locate two at Southampton and one at Exeter via the booking engine but where are the other two ( I have to say I have not checked the whole schedule just the usual suspects).
I am flying on the BHX-CDG in early April and it is showing as the 175, which is currently a 195 route and has been for some time and I find it difficult with the fares charged and load factor that they would be cutting 30 seats per flight if they have 118 seat aircraft sitting around. I thought have thought Air France would be particularly happy either.
Talking of which I though two 175's were leaving the fleet, is this still the case and when as 11 are still showing in the booking engine in April.
Pete
Some of the BHX schedule was the same but to be fair they have now amended it but BHX - HAJ was on sale for months at a 17.00 departure on a 175 when there just wasn't an aircraft around to do it at that time but there was an unused Dash from 18.10 and low and behold it is now at 18.10 on the Dash. I suppose with such a route most bookings are fairly late and it hasn't caused too much disruption but it was only amended the other week.
However it still can't beat this one: -
IOM-MAN Monday - Friday, BE814 departs 11.15 then BE812 departs 11.45. So basically 40% of the IOM-MAN departures leave within 30 minutes of each other and yes I realise this is the only way to work the aircraft through non-bases but coupled with some other gems such as the timings on Newcastle - Stansted certainly some of the most creative scheduling I have seen from flybe.
Could someone also clarify the original Bournemouth press release which mentions two based Dash 8's based. Looking at the Bournemouth flights I can see one based aircraft with some flight on a Glasgow based aircraft working through the day but only one over-nights at BOH. Surely the inbound Glasgow flights will be crewed by the Glasgow base or maybe not?
Another point this time from the last financials, it mentioned five 195's flying this summer and I can only locate two at Southampton and one at Exeter via the booking engine but where are the other two ( I have to say I have not checked the whole schedule just the usual suspects).
I am flying on the BHX-CDG in early April and it is showing as the 175, which is currently a 195 route and has been for some time and I find it difficult with the fares charged and load factor that they would be cutting 30 seats per flight if they have 118 seat aircraft sitting around. I thought have thought Air France would be particularly happy either.
Talking of which I though two 175's were leaving the fleet, is this still the case and when as 11 are still showing in the booking engine in April.
Pete
Last edited by OltonPete; 1st Mar 2015 at 20:04. Reason: order of words
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F
It seems pretty clear that a trade off took place with FLYBE backing and supporting Stobarts new routes from SEN in return for Stobart/Aer Arran/ Aer Lingus Regional giving up the lucrative and improving uplifts on the DUB service to FLYBE who now operate 4 daily weekdays from LCY to DUB. IMO they have deliberately run down the SEN service to push pax over to the LCY service. They have let Stobart down badly as well as switching the NQY summer service from SEN over to STN and increasing it big time. They appear to have no loyalty to SEN and Stobart but I hope to be proved wrong in the future
Last edited by wethersfield; 1st Mar 2015 at 20:26. Reason: Typo
OltonPete, interesting analysis. The whole thing completely fails to meet the mantra which Flybe set out in its most recent annual report - the START values where the R stood for Responsibility and Accountability, and the T stood for Transparency. If the conclusions reached here are correct, it is neither transparent - basically destroying customer trust by selling something which appears to be highly unlikely to happen - nor is whomever responsible for this within Flybe taking any responsibility. Route optimisation is the lifeblood of airlines, but selling something which appears to be highly unlikely to fly is simply wrong, measured against consumer legislation or the standards which they profess to set themselves. Might someone reading this in Jack Walker House care to comment?
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Schedules
Flightrider
Slightly and only slightly in flybe's defence, most airlines seem to do this occasionally but usually it gets rectified pretty quickly and you can believe that sometimes it is just the IT just lagging behind.
The example you quote is pretty disappointing as was the BHX - HAJ schedule but I find the other examples I quoted more worrying in a business sense, as I believe that they are actually going to operate.
Just to add a little balance, one airline with four based aircraft at BHX once scheduled seven based a few years back (timings clearly indicated UK based) but that said airline had no intention of basing seven aircraft at BHX that summer and that was also a bit naughty. Sure enough a couple of flights got chopped another re-arranged as an away based unit and it was back to four and I imagine a lot of e-mail traffic to customers.
I am sure most airlines find it difficult with first and second releases of their schedules with so many factors that can change things but sometimes it does make you wonder why it does take so long to amend.
Pete
Slightly and only slightly in flybe's defence, most airlines seem to do this occasionally but usually it gets rectified pretty quickly and you can believe that sometimes it is just the IT just lagging behind.
The example you quote is pretty disappointing as was the BHX - HAJ schedule but I find the other examples I quoted more worrying in a business sense, as I believe that they are actually going to operate.
Just to add a little balance, one airline with four based aircraft at BHX once scheduled seven based a few years back (timings clearly indicated UK based) but that said airline had no intention of basing seven aircraft at BHX that summer and that was also a bit naughty. Sure enough a couple of flights got chopped another re-arranged as an away based unit and it was back to four and I imagine a lot of e-mail traffic to customers.
I am sure most airlines find it difficult with first and second releases of their schedules with so many factors that can change things but sometimes it does make you wonder why it does take so long to amend.
Pete
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Pete, part of the summer schedule that I can see shows a 195 operating the CDG out of BHX. I would imagine this will continue throughout the summer schedule.
Also Flybe are not disposing of two 175s, this was just a pprune rumour.
Also Flybe are not disposing of two 175s, this was just a pprune rumour.
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195's
Deano777
Thank you for that, I will keep an eye out for my flight although with all flybe aircraft from BHX 2 & 2 seating it doesn't really make much difference what I fly on to be honest although out of choice I would prefer not to be in the back few rows on the 195 but not really a hardship.
Also thank you for the clarification on the 175's, crossed wires as I thought that this was happening but too late to make it into the last financials.
As for the 195's, BHX - Kelalonia is still bookable as a flight only this summer and I would imagine that this would be on the 195 with a 3 hour 45 return leg?
Pete
Thank you for that, I will keep an eye out for my flight although with all flybe aircraft from BHX 2 & 2 seating it doesn't really make much difference what I fly on to be honest although out of choice I would prefer not to be in the back few rows on the 195 but not really a hardship.
Also thank you for the clarification on the 175's, crossed wires as I thought that this was happening but too late to make it into the last financials.
As for the 195's, BHX - Kelalonia is still bookable as a flight only this summer and I would imagine that this would be on the 195 with a 3 hour 45 return leg?
Pete