Flybe - 7
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Now now CC, name calling is for children.
Apart from regurgitating new management sound bites and limiting your vision to the IOM and the CIs why don't you try a bit of thought instead of always asking me for ideas. Haven't you got the faintest idea yourself?
Happy with 11 Ejets? That's just fantastic.
Can't cope with 24 more because the amazing financing deal you got was not fantastic. That's just fantastic.
Can't even cope with 11 for another 4 years? Fantastic.
Regressing to what is basically a trumped up Air Southwest? Fantastic.
It's not that the Ejets are inefficient in themselves but the customer experience and company image limits what you can charge to people to fly on them.
Is that an order?
Apart from regurgitating new management sound bites and limiting your vision to the IOM and the CIs why don't you try a bit of thought instead of always asking me for ideas. Haven't you got the faintest idea yourself?
Happy with 11 Ejets? That's just fantastic.
Can't cope with 24 more because the amazing financing deal you got was not fantastic. That's just fantastic.
Can't even cope with 11 for another 4 years? Fantastic.
Regressing to what is basically a trumped up Air Southwest? Fantastic.
you can tell us what we can do with 24 Ejets and make them profitable?
so stop
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Is it that hard to understand? Former management had a plan, part of which was a fleet of 35 E175s. Unfortunately as the business climate changed it became apparent that the plan was not profitable. New management came in with a new plan, that didn't require as many E175s, but more Dash 8s, so have come up with a deal with Republic that addresses the issue. Given that reports suggest that the new plan is more profitable, what's not to like (unless you were expecting to transition from props to jets as the Embraer fleet expanded)?
- CEO quote states that they are happy with the 11 they have, so presumably they expect that fleet to stay in situ for a while.
I would guess that Republic have covered at least some of the Embraer cancellation costs in return for 20 production slots being freed up, and Flybe get to replace some older Dash 8s for less than it would cost to lease some new ones.
Can't even cope with 11 for another 4 years? Fantastic.
I would guess that Republic have covered at least some of the Embraer cancellation costs in return for 20 production slots being freed up, and Flybe get to replace some older Dash 8s for less than it would cost to lease some new ones.
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No it's not hard to understand. It's not fantastic news either.
Fantastic news would be that Flybe have orders more Ejets, not less. In fact, it's rather sad that "fantastic news" appears to be recession, downsizing, job losses and more Q400s.
Still at least the LF will finally go up with less available seats.
I meant 15 and not 11.
Fantastic news would be that Flybe have orders more Ejets, not less. In fact, it's rather sad that "fantastic news" appears to be recession, downsizing, job losses and more Q400s.
Still at least the LF will finally go up with less available seats.
I meant 15 and not 11.
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Good news on the surface of it, but I hope Flybe are aware of what dogs these Qs are. They have been overworked and not cared for properly, first by Colgan Air and now Republic. The dispatch reliability for Republic over the last 18 months has been shambolic. In fact they have been so unreliable that some communities have asked United to stop sending in the Q because of the number of long delays and cancellations it has caused. These 24 aircraft will be maintenance hogs. At least Flybe will treat them a lot better than Republic or Colgan did.
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Spandex
We all know you despise Flybe, just because you left to "better" yourself. Why do you feel the need to troll everything to do with Flybe on pprune? It's pretty sad and pathetic. Also your sarcasm is pathetic and childish so please look in the mirror before pointing your finger.
Whilst we're on the subject of finance, who said the finance deal was fantastic? Point me to a reference where I said that? I didn't, you're worse than politicians, spouting bull**** to further your own agenda, which only you know what it is. The finance deal done by the previous incumbent was dire, but not quite as dire as the one done on the E195's. All these aircraft were then put on the wrong routes where they couldn't possibly make money. The management team stripped everything out, started with a clean sheet and came up with the route network we now have and the aircraft on that network to suit it's purpose. Every aircraft that doesn't make money is surplus to requirements. It's not rocket science.
So come on then Einstein, where can you base these aircraft in a saturated UK market where you can put the price up and still prevent the customers running off to easyjet/ryanair? How can you put the price up and compete against the major players and make it a success when the original finance deal was so poor? You're on a loser before you even start. A fluffy quiet 88 seat jet with a biz jet style feel to them which passengers love is not enough to win them over on price, it isn't the 1960's anymore. What is it about your company's image that attracts the "clientele" you carry around? Flybe's image and customer experience is no worse than what yours is. Ryanair's customer experience and company image is diabolical, but they fill their aircraft; Why? Because the tickets are cheap. Why can your outfit fill their aircraft? Because you own all your aircraft so the tickets are cheap. Flybe doesn't own many of their aircraft. Flybe doesn't have massive cash reserves. Flybe nearly went out of business last year. Flybe are doing the best with what they have, and getting out of a crippling financial deal with Embraer is a bloody good result for the longevity of this company, if some dogs of Q400s is all we can afford right now then that's what we've got to go with, if you think you have the accumin to do a better job, maybe you should offer your services. Management consultants can make a small fortune nowadays. Get your credentials off to Saad.
We all know you despise Flybe, just because you left to "better" yourself. Why do you feel the need to troll everything to do with Flybe on pprune? It's pretty sad and pathetic. Also your sarcasm is pathetic and childish so please look in the mirror before pointing your finger.
Whilst we're on the subject of finance, who said the finance deal was fantastic? Point me to a reference where I said that? I didn't, you're worse than politicians, spouting bull**** to further your own agenda, which only you know what it is. The finance deal done by the previous incumbent was dire, but not quite as dire as the one done on the E195's. All these aircraft were then put on the wrong routes where they couldn't possibly make money. The management team stripped everything out, started with a clean sheet and came up with the route network we now have and the aircraft on that network to suit it's purpose. Every aircraft that doesn't make money is surplus to requirements. It's not rocket science.
Originally Posted by Lord Spandex Masher
It's not that the Ejets are inefficient in themselves but the customer experience and company image limits what you can charge to people to fly on them.
I REALLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE
Great to see the management's determination in resolving the fleet issue which was the last major issue in turning the company around. This announcement will hopefully allow staff to breathe a little easier now.
The problem with the Embraer stems from the fact that the previous managements pricing/frequency/capacity strategy was not correctly aligned with the size of the markets served. The new managment having re-focussed the business model are matching demand with capacity to maximise yield.
It is also worth pointing out that the 175 burns over 60% more fuel per hour than a Q400 - the previous management's strategy of one for one replacement was never going to work considering that the bulk of the route network is made up of short flights that don't play to the Embraer's strengths.
It is not a case that the Embraers are bad aircraft - it is more a case that they don't fit naturally in flybe's route network.
LSM is unfortunately not smart enough to see past the nicer cockpit.
The problem with the Embraer stems from the fact that the previous managements pricing/frequency/capacity strategy was not correctly aligned with the size of the markets served. The new managment having re-focussed the business model are matching demand with capacity to maximise yield.
It is also worth pointing out that the 175 burns over 60% more fuel per hour than a Q400 - the previous management's strategy of one for one replacement was never going to work considering that the bulk of the route network is made up of short flights that don't play to the Embraer's strengths.
It is not a case that the Embraers are bad aircraft - it is more a case that they don't fit naturally in flybe's route network.
LSM is unfortunately not smart enough to see past the nicer cockpit.
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Actually CC, you couldn't be more wrong. I don't despise Flybe in the slightest and I didn't leave to better myself, I left to maintain employment. I also don't troll every post about Flybe on porune and I haven't been sarcastic recently. It is, however, you who has been personal and on more than one occasion. Doesn't bother me though, just stating a fact.
Right then. It isn't a matter of where you base your pretty little jets if people don't want to experience Flybe's version of customer "service". So yes you're correct, it isn't only the propulsion system that attracts customers. Flybe isn't cheap either so who's going to pay through the nose for a poor product just because it's delivered in a purple wrapping?
Do you really think it's fantastic that you can only afford a bunch of knackered old Q400s? Really? It's actually laughable, not fantastic.
I assume you'd think if Flybe was able to lease and operate the Embraer effectively and get rid of some Q400s that would be fantastic news also?
Oh, and...
Is your sarcasm any different or you a hypocrite? Although your name calling is an irrefutable fact which I am free to point out.
Nothing to do with it SR and I speak as someone who left the Embraer to fly in what is arguably a worse flight deck than the Q400.
Do you really think it's fantastic that you can only afford a bunch of knackered old Q400s? Really? It's actually laughable, not fantastic.
I assume you'd think if Flybe was able to lease and operate the Embraer effectively and get rid of some Q400s that would be fantastic news also?
Oh, and...
Also your sarcasm is pathetic and childish so please look in the mirror before pointing your finger.
maybe you should offer your services. Management consultants can make a small fortune nowadays. Get your credentials off to Saad.
LSM is unfortunately not smart enough to see past the nicer cockpit.
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Ignore Lord Spandex Master (who has a very sad user name which says it all
) and then he has nothing further to react too. Just enjoy these forums for sensible discussion and ignore the rubbish people like LSM come out with! Please!
) and then he has nothing further to react too. Just enjoy these forums for sensible discussion and ignore the rubbish people like LSM come out with! Please!
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It doesn't make it rubbish just because it's hard to swallow.
Is it a case, Nick, of only wanting affirmation of your posts and ignoring anyone with an opposing opinion? Is discussion just agreeing with your opinion?
At least I post on topic.
Is it a case, Nick, of only wanting affirmation of your posts and ignoring anyone with an opposing opinion? Is discussion just agreeing with your opinion?
At least I post on topic.
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Oh but Spandex you do despise Flybe, you are always on here on every post having a dig, or dissing something or other to do with the way they've just done business. If you were that much of an expert you wouldn't be flying anymore would you, you'd be basking in the sunshine with a cocktail on your own personal island in the Pacific, but alas, you're still here and you're still posting on every Flybe thread going with your self conceived opinions; hell you even hijacked a wannabe thread a couple of months ago. You obviously have an axe to grind, but whatever it is it's actually dull now. Infact you do it so often you probably don't even know you're doing it.
As for the rest of your points:
Really? Post #412. Can't see it? Look harder.
Poor product? Who's opinion is this exactly? The customers? That's odd because load factors are up in double % figures and last month was the highest % load factor in the company's history. Something must be right, be that price, or product, or shock horror, even both.
Now again, answer the question I posed earlier. Where will you base these jets to enable them to make money in a saturated market competing against A320's & B738's? Lets skip the David Cameron response, give us all some substance, unlike your response above.
Stick to the facts. Knackered old Q400s? Where is this written? Average age of 5.4 years? I didn't realise this made them knackered and old. When you go to work next time take a look at some of the crates you pin your backside to, now that is knackered and old.
That would be fantastic, yes. What would have been even better is if our previous incompetent senior management team had the nounce and nohow to be able to negotiate a proper lease agreement that didn't leave the whole company wide open to failure. What would've been even more fantastic is if we could've completely got out of the current deal to be free to renegotiate with aircraft suppliers effectively and properly that gave us a deal that was fit for purpose and fit for the company. The reality (that you fail to see) is that the only way out of this ridiculously bad contract that was hurting the company was to negotiate with Republic and Embraer to take on our 175s and we take Q400s in it's place. We have been trying for a long time to offload them with no success. This is probably the best of a bad deal that could be done to ensure we are not tied into a long term lease agreement that was crippling the company.
Oh believe me I wasn't being sarcastic, I meant every word. Saad would be silly to miss out on your services considering you know so much. Consultants can effectively fill in the amount on a blank cheque nowadays.
Also yes I did call you a clown, stop jumping down everyone's throats with your ridiculous, condescending retorts and have a proper conversation or discussion and I am sure we'll all have a little more respect for your opinions.
As for the rest of your points:
Originally Posted by Lord Spandex Masher
and I haven't been sarcastic recently. It is, however, you who has been personal and on more than one occasion. Doesn't bother me though, just stating a fact.
Originally Posted by Lord Spandex Masher
Right then. It isn't a matter of where you base your pretty little jets if people don't want to experience Flybe's version of customer "service". So yes you're correct, it isn't only the propulsion system that attracts customers. Flybe isn't cheap either so who's going to pay through the nose for a poor product just because it's delivered in a purple wrapping?
Now again, answer the question I posed earlier. Where will you base these jets to enable them to make money in a saturated market competing against A320's & B738's? Lets skip the David Cameron response, give us all some substance, unlike your response above.
Originally Posted by Lord Spandex Masher
Do you really think it's fantastic that you can only afford a bunch of knackered old Q400s? Really? It's actually laughable, not fantastic.
Originally Posted by Lord Spandex Masher
I assume you'd think if Flybe was able to lease and operate the Embraer effectively and get rid of some Q400s that would be fantastic news also?
Originally Posted by Lord Spandex Masher
Is your sarcasm any different or you a hypocrite? Although your name calling is an irrefutable fact which I am free to point out.
Also yes I did call you a clown, stop jumping down everyone's throats with your ridiculous, condescending retorts and have a proper conversation or discussion and I am sure we'll all have a little more respect for your opinions.
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No LSM not agreeing with my opinion, In fact I prefer the Embraer to the dash but the Emb wont work with this business model Flybe has adopted.
End of the day their is having a discusion with differing opinions. Then their is having a discussion which one person seems to deliberately antagonise people, which I'm sure you would agree apears to happen only when you post by the amount of grief you get.
End of the day their is having a discusion with differing opinions. Then their is having a discussion which one person seems to deliberately antagonise people, which I'm sure you would agree apears to happen only when you post by the amount of grief you get.
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Nck, if people allow themselves to be antagonised by differing opinions that's not my problem. Should I really have to put up with name calling and personal attacks? Witness the post by Canberra as a fine example of discussion.
CC, whilst you might be able to manfully and anonymously call me names you cannot tell me what I do or do not feel about Flybe, or anything else. You simply don't know.
You might be able to tell me where I professed to being an expert?
What jets?! You're not getting any more any time soon.
Your last post. You said " if some dogs of Q400s is all we can afford". Did you mean actually mean to write brand new, well cared for, reliable Q400s?
Is this a competition now? What relevance to Flybe? Made them a profit every year of their existence though. What's that feel like? Anyway, I didn't call a knackered old 737 fantastic news did I.
Right, so the opposite of your recent fantastic news is also fantastic news.
I'm well aware of the reality. Just because I don't consider it fantastic news, like you do, does not mean I can't see it.
Can you see your double standards now that you've written them out?
I've not jumped down anyone's throat, or called them names or suggested they piss off and you're telling me to have a proper conversation.
I take it you'll ask Canberra to retract his comments and you'll also apologise for name calling. You know, in the interests of a proper conversation?
CC, whilst you might be able to manfully and anonymously call me names you cannot tell me what I do or do not feel about Flybe, or anything else. You simply don't know.
You might be able to tell me where I professed to being an expert?
Where will you base these jets
Stick to the facts. Knackered old Q400s? Where is this written?
When you go to work next time take a look at some of the crates you pin your backside to, now that is knackered and old.
That would be fantastic, yes.
The reality (that you fail to see)
Also yes I did call you a clown, stop jumping down everyone's throats with your ridiculous, condescending retorts and have a proper conversation or discussion and I am sure we'll all have a little more respect for your opinions.
I've not jumped down anyone's throat, or called them names or suggested they piss off and you're telling me to have a proper conversation.
I take it you'll ask Canberra to retract his comments and you'll also apologise for name calling. You know, in the interests of a proper conversation?
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I don't think people will retract their comments you have pissed a lot of people off with your comments, I will apologise for mine, but please please can we get back to Flybe and try to not comment so horribly please please please!!!
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Nick, come on. Did you read my first comment on this topic? Effectively I disagreed that the news was fantastic. Now go and look at the second post after mine. Do you think a response like that was warranted based on my post?
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I didn't say it wasn't bad news. I said it wasn't fantastic news. It's not.
Fantastic news would be Flybe keeping the order and being able to make money with it. This news is just news.
Of course it isn't. I've never suggested otherwise. It never made money on the sun routes even when it was full.
It will be interesting to see if the load factor has indeed jumped from ~65% to ~90% in the space of a year. Forgive me if I remain sceptical until I see some hard numbers.
As a Flybe share holder I would love to see Flybe flourish. I find it amusing that people think I despise the company that's going to give me thousands of pounds of free money.
Fantastic news would be Flybe keeping the order and being able to make money with it. This news is just news.
its not suitable for some of the ops's Flybe are flying today and no doubt in the future.
It will be interesting to see if the load factor has indeed jumped from ~65% to ~90% in the space of a year. Forgive me if I remain sceptical until I see some hard numbers.
As a Flybe share holder I would love to see Flybe flourish. I find it amusing that people think I despise the company that's going to give me thousands of pounds of free money.
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LSM have you rubbed people up the wrong way in the past if so then that may be why the response.
From an outsider looking in you would appear to not be a fan of Flybe, and come on you must admit some of your posts can be a bit of a downer on the company.
Look at it this way if this news for Flybe means they make nice tidy profits, then we will all be very happy, and I'm sure as a shareholder you will be more than most!
From an outsider looking in you would appear to not be a fan of Flybe, and come on you must admit some of your posts can be a bit of a downer on the company.
Look at it this way if this news for Flybe means they make nice tidy profits, then we will all be very happy, and I'm sure as a shareholder you will be more than most!