Flybe - 7
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Una due TFC;
You raise a valid point. Aer Lingus could certainly do a deal with any carrier to operate as Aer Lingus Regional. But it's unlikely as
1. A contract is in place until 2022 ( dates from memory )
2. EI have a vested interest in the fleet of Stobart Air, funding some of the ATR's but I don't know if that is still the case since Stobart Air came about
The model works well. My guess would be EI could certainly go in house and set up its own commuter carrier if it parted ways with Stobart Air, but again very hypothetical.
Regarding 'protection', I can't see how they would have any protection on any route , we operate in a deregulated market. They don't get much protection from Ryanair's predatory behaviour of widely available €8 one way on DUB BHX and MAN. Gladly, EIR have the point of difference of interlining traffic !
You raise a valid point. Aer Lingus could certainly do a deal with any carrier to operate as Aer Lingus Regional. But it's unlikely as
1. A contract is in place until 2022 ( dates from memory )
2. EI have a vested interest in the fleet of Stobart Air, funding some of the ATR's but I don't know if that is still the case since Stobart Air came about
The model works well. My guess would be EI could certainly go in house and set up its own commuter carrier if it parted ways with Stobart Air, but again very hypothetical.
Regarding 'protection', I can't see how they would have any protection on any route , we operate in a deregulated market. They don't get much protection from Ryanair's predatory behaviour of widely available €8 one way on DUB BHX and MAN. Gladly, EIR have the point of difference of interlining traffic !
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A very quick check on the schedule shows the aircraft will do LCY-AMS-LCY instead. Presumably BE have decided that one round trip to/from EXE-LCY will be enough on a winter Sunday, and the AMS rounder offers more revenue potential.
Such minor tweaks are generally not announced to the World at large, but anyone who has booked a seat on the consolidated flight will doubtless get an e-mail.
Such minor tweaks are generally not announced to the World at large, but anyone who has booked a seat on the consolidated flight will doubtless get an e-mail.
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FlyBE Lounges
FlyBE improved their product by closing all of their own lounges.
Contract Lounges are now being used - e.g. Servisair Aspire in BHX or EDI.
Executive Lounges | Flybe
Contract Lounges are now being used - e.g. Servisair Aspire in BHX or EDI.
Executive Lounges | Flybe
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GCI SOU
Rumours from Blue Islands is that they are set to announce a 4th rotation to SOU daily starting next month. Does this move mean a Flybe pull out on the route or merely just an escalation in hostilities?! No idea what the loads are. Anyone got any clues?
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AerArann62w,
I guess your question could be phrased 'is it likely at this stage that Stobart Air (former AerArannRegional) would consider a return to the SEN WAT route .... My guess is no, though things are improving in Ireland a London route would seem the logical progression. Luton maybe more than SEN as history has shown it to be more popular.
When the runway gets extended I'd expect FR to be keen to do it, returning to its origin in Waterford ... Not sure when the runway will be extended...
I guess your question could be phrased 'is it likely at this stage that Stobart Air (former AerArannRegional) would consider a return to the SEN WAT route .... My guess is no, though things are improving in Ireland a London route would seem the logical progression. Luton maybe more than SEN as history has shown it to be more popular.
When the runway gets extended I'd expect FR to be keen to do it, returning to its origin in Waterford ... Not sure when the runway will be extended...
The train from Euston to Birmingham Intl takes about 1h15 or 1h20 and runs at a high frequency. Southend has lower pay-on-the-day train fares to/from London but doesn't offer advance booked train fares.
It seems as if, for people based in central London, Birmingham is well able to compete against routes offered from Southend
It seems as if, for people based in central London, Birmingham is well able to compete against routes offered from Southend
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So it would seem - BHX-WAT continues to grow and deliver high loads. MAN-WAT seems uncertain, although it was originally stopping in Sept its been extended to Oct. Hopefully it will go on through winter, or at least return next summer. Odd because it was stronger under RE, to the point they dropped BHX but carried on with MAN.
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Birmingham is only stronger the Manchester now because almost half the Birmingham flight are taking the train to London thus using it as an interim London service. Manchester has been providing a nice steady load factor of 70%+ this summer some days completely full. Both routes have developed greatly since the RE days for some reason, so I don't see a reason for Manchester not to return early next year as the loads and demand are there!
Birmingham is only stronger the Manchester now because almost half the Birmingham flight are taking the train to London thus using it as an interim London service.
In the midlands we've been doing that in reverse for years, and will continue to do so far the foreseeable future!
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Birmingham-Waterford
AerArann62W wrote
Do you have a source for this or is this something you have made up yourself? The Birmingham route is doing very well. If the Manchester flight was performing as well it would be continuing throughout the winter. Also load factors are interesting but are no indiction of how a route is performing its yield that counts
Birmingham is only stronger the Manchester now because almost half the Birmingham flight are taking the train to London thus using it as an interim London service. Manchester has been providing a nice steady load factor of 70%+ this summer some days completely full. Both routes have developed greatly since the RE days for some reason, so I don't see a reason for Manchester not to return early next year as the loads and demand are there!
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Originally Posted by Daza
Do you have a source for this or is this something you have made up yourself? The Birmingham route is doing very well. If the Manchester flight was performing as well it would be continuing throughout the winter. Also load factors are interesting but are no indiction of how a route is performing its yield that counts
2. When I travel on the route many passengers say there are travelling onward to London as regards when I travel to Manchester the plane had 92,90,87,82% load factors respectively and I plane spot regularly at Waterford.
3. When the airport staff talk on the local radio they always mention that until a London route is re-established there is a great rail connection to London from Birmingham international which many passengers take.
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Waterford-Birmingham
Facebook and your chats with on board passengers...anecdotal. The radio chat is probably more about Waterford Airport trying its best to prove demand for a flight from London. As I said if the yields were good both flights would continue, only the Birmingham flight continues through the winter. It's yield that matters crude passenger numbers alone mean nothing. I have family in Wexford who regularly use the service and have done since it started fares ex-BHX are very high. 
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Daza
I use BHX-WAT myself, I've never paid more than about £70 return, granted I don't fly over at peak, comparing that to BHX-ORK the fares are almost always cheaper, and BHX-DUB has only come down in price since FR went into fares war mode and periodically dabbled with a fourth daily rotation. I'm pleased BHX-WAT is doing well, I'm brummie/Irish through and through! However there is clear proven demand for LON-WAT, LON has been the one route than has consistently ran over the years, predominantly LTN which was triple daily at one point. RE under stobart tried to drive SEN and really ramped up fares and cut capacity at LTN to the point starting fares were over £100 return, and they were flying full most days. SEN was just starting to catch on when EIR pulled it to concentrate on feeding transatlantic, I loved RE but their latter offering at WAT became very unreliable, on numerous occasions I have flown on an ATR with duct tape round seats and leaks from overhead, the lovely cabin crew having to explain not even having coffee available for sale in flight because literally everything had ran out - they were very lucky to keep the customers they did, but I stick to my guns there is definitely demand for LON service, LTN-WAT was RE's most profitable route until it changed its business model and became EIR, regional airports just aren't part of EI's strategy. The London area, in particular north London has the highest Irish population in the UK, and I don't buy the story everyone wants to fly via DUB, I certainly don't want to land in north Dublin to get to Waterford or Kilkenny.
Much of the issue lies in the fact that there are few airlines that can serve WAT as it can't take anything over regional jet size currently, hence the reason BE's name keeps coming up!
I use BHX-WAT myself, I've never paid more than about £70 return, granted I don't fly over at peak, comparing that to BHX-ORK the fares are almost always cheaper, and BHX-DUB has only come down in price since FR went into fares war mode and periodically dabbled with a fourth daily rotation. I'm pleased BHX-WAT is doing well, I'm brummie/Irish through and through! However there is clear proven demand for LON-WAT, LON has been the one route than has consistently ran over the years, predominantly LTN which was triple daily at one point. RE under stobart tried to drive SEN and really ramped up fares and cut capacity at LTN to the point starting fares were over £100 return, and they were flying full most days. SEN was just starting to catch on when EIR pulled it to concentrate on feeding transatlantic, I loved RE but their latter offering at WAT became very unreliable, on numerous occasions I have flown on an ATR with duct tape round seats and leaks from overhead, the lovely cabin crew having to explain not even having coffee available for sale in flight because literally everything had ran out - they were very lucky to keep the customers they did, but I stick to my guns there is definitely demand for LON service, LTN-WAT was RE's most profitable route until it changed its business model and became EIR, regional airports just aren't part of EI's strategy. The London area, in particular north London has the highest Irish population in the UK, and I don't buy the story everyone wants to fly via DUB, I certainly don't want to land in north Dublin to get to Waterford or Kilkenny.
Much of the issue lies in the fact that there are few airlines that can serve WAT as it can't take anything over regional jet size currently, hence the reason BE's name keeps coming up!
Last edited by mart901; 27th Aug 2014 at 06:22. Reason: more info
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Birmingham-Waterford
mart901 wrote
If all this were true there would be flights from LUT or SEN or other London airports. Airlines want to operate routes that are profitable (not prop up a service to an alternative airport and expect passengers to get on the train) if there was such a huge demand for London, flights would be operated.
When flights from Birmingham don't do well individuals on here say there is no demand, when flights prosper its because of A,B and C. How about the fact that people from Waterford and South-East Ireland want to travel to Birmingham and the Midlands? What a shock
As someone who's sister married and Irishman, Birmingham and its surrounds also have a huge Irish ex-pat population (hence the frequency of flights from the Midlands to Ireland).
My brother-in-law, his family and our family regularly pay 120 Euros+ for flights to Birmingham and travel 10 or more times a year. I chose three random dates in September and all were £98+ ex Birmingham.
Daza
I use BHX-WAT myself, I've never paid more than about £70 return, granted I don't fly over at peak, comparing that to BHX-ORK the fares are almost always cheaper, and BHX-DUB has only come down in price since FR went into fares war mode and periodically dabbled with a fourth daily rotation. I'm pleased BHX-WAT is doing well, I'm brummie/Irish through and through! However there is clear proven demand for LON-WAT, LON has been the one route than has consistently ran over the years, predominantly LTN which was triple daily at one point. RE under stobart tried to drive SEN and really ramped up fares and cut capacity at LTN to the point starting fares were over £100 return, and they were flying full most days. SEN was just starting to catch on when EIR pulled it to concentrate on feeding transatlantic, I loved RE but their latter offering at WAT became very unreliable, on numerous occasions I have flown on an ATR with duct tape round seats and leaks from overhead, the lovely cabin crew having to explain not even having coffee available for sale in flight because literally everything had ran out - they were very lucky to keep the customers they did, but I stick to my guns there is definitely demand for LON service, LTN-WAT was RE's most profitable route until it changed its business model and became EIR, regional airports just aren't part of EI's strategy. The London area, in particular north London has the highest Irish population in the UK, and I don't buy the story everyone wants to fly via DUB, I certainly don't want to land in north Dublin to get to Waterford or Kilkenny.
Much of the issue lies in the fact that there are few airlines that can serve WAT as it can't take anything over regional jet size currently, hence the reason BE's name keeps coming up!
Much of the issue lies in the fact that there are few airlines that can serve WAT as it can't take anything over regional jet size currently, hence the reason BE's name keeps coming up!
When flights from Birmingham don't do well individuals on here say there is no demand, when flights prosper its because of A,B and C. How about the fact that people from Waterford and South-East Ireland want to travel to Birmingham and the Midlands? What a shock
As someone who's sister married and Irishman, Birmingham and its surrounds also have a huge Irish ex-pat population (hence the frequency of flights from the Midlands to Ireland).
My brother-in-law, his family and our family regularly pay 120 Euros+ for flights to Birmingham and travel 10 or more times a year. I chose three random dates in September and all were £98+ ex Birmingham.
Daza
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Daza
You're preaching to the converted, I'm totally in favour of BHX having direct flights and totally believe there is demand. However, BE operates 3x weekly in winter and 4x weekly in summer. LTN for several years had 3x daily and until the route switched to SEN it was at least 2x daily. What's happened to all these people? They haven't evaporated. They are using alternative routes. Also I would believe some people fly WAT-BHX and travel to London by train - WAT airport use the fast rail service from Birmingham International as part of their marketing.
In terms of fares, you mention September, September is 4 days away, there's been plenty of cheap seats available earlier in the year. Take a look ORK flights, nearest alternative and you will find its much pricier a lot of the time, but I notice as demand has risen BE fares have crept up, fairly normal practice.
You're preaching to the converted, I'm totally in favour of BHX having direct flights and totally believe there is demand. However, BE operates 3x weekly in winter and 4x weekly in summer. LTN for several years had 3x daily and until the route switched to SEN it was at least 2x daily. What's happened to all these people? They haven't evaporated. They are using alternative routes. Also I would believe some people fly WAT-BHX and travel to London by train - WAT airport use the fast rail service from Birmingham International as part of their marketing.
In terms of fares, you mention September, September is 4 days away, there's been plenty of cheap seats available earlier in the year. Take a look ORK flights, nearest alternative and you will find its much pricier a lot of the time, but I notice as demand has risen BE fares have crept up, fairly normal practice.
Last edited by mart901; 27th Aug 2014 at 18:13. Reason: more info
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Birmingham-Waterford
mart901 wrote
So were are the direct flights? Please produce one shred of evidence that passengers are travelling onto London via train. All that demand all those former flights to London and as you say just 4 x week ex BHX in summer and 3 x week in winter just where has all that demand gone? 
LTN for several years had 3x daily and until the route switched to SEN it was at least 2x daily. What's happened to all these people? They haven't evaporated. They are using alternative routes
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Daza
We could go on at this forever and it proves nothing, ultimately it doesn't really matter. My main wish is that WAT can grow and sustain routes, I think the UK market is its most important. Its a great little airport.
We could go on at this forever and it proves nothing, ultimately it doesn't really matter. My main wish is that WAT can grow and sustain routes, I think the UK market is its most important. Its a great little airport.
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Originally Posted by mart901
We could go on at this forever and it proves nothing, ultimately it doesn't really matter. My main wish is that WAT can grow and sustain routes, I think the UK market is its most important. Its a great little airport.